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Two cycle oil, who is right? Mechanic, marina, or manufacturer?
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Two cycle oil, who is right? Mechanic, marina, or manufacturer?
I have twin 1990 Evinrude 225HP engines that I have been told to use 3 different types of oil. I used to use the purple oil but a friend of mine moved from an Evinrude FICHT to a Mercury engine and had about 40 gallons left in his 55 gallon drum of FICHT oil so I called Evinrude (Bombardier) and asked if I could use FICHT oil in my older outboards. The sales guy transferred me to a Tech Engineer, he told me that I should be using FICHT oil as it burns much cleaner than the older purple oil. He also said I could mix the two with no issues. I used the FICHT oil until I used up the rest of the drum.
Three years ago I took the boat in to have the engines looked at because they had been smoking a lot and when at idle they would stall out regularly. The mechanic told me the problem was with the FICHT oil, it was thinner than the old purple oil so the VRO pumps were regulated to pump the thicker (higher viscosity) oil and was pumping to much oil into the cylinders causing the engines to smoke more and run rough at idle. I switched back to the purple oil and the smoking and idle problem went away.
This spring after I emptied all three of my 2 1/2 gallon of purple bulk oil containers I dropped them off at a local marina who is an Evinrude dealer. I told the guy which engines I had and when I went back to pick up the filled containers I noticed the oil was now green. I asked the parts guy why they weren't filled with the purple oil and he had the mechanic come to the parts counter to talk to me. This mechanic (not the same one that told me to use the purple oil) told me I should be using the green oil, one is XD30 and other is XD50 but I don't recall which color is which. I told the mechanic that the factory told me I should be using FICHT but I had problems with this oil, he agreed that the FICHT oil wouldn't cause any damage but I should be using the green oil.
I filled up my oil reservoirs that were half full of purple oil with now the green oil, I'm hoping there wasn't a problem mixing them because I didn't ask about the mechanic about mixing the purple with the green. I didn't notice anything different with the engines yesterday and I ran about 25 miles and everything seemed fine.
Can anyone tell me which is the right oil I should be using?? What color is XD50 and XD30 and what is the difference between the two??
Re: Two cycle oil, who is right? Mechanic, marina, or manufacturer?
Far from an expert in this area, I have been told not to mix different brands of 2 stroke oil as it can "gum" up and clog filters, lines, pumps, etc. Good luck
Re: Two cycle oil, who is right? Mechanic, marina, or manufacturer?
They are ALL Evinrude oils, not different manufacturers. Evinrude must make XD30, XD50, and FICHT oil for a reason. They are all 3 different colors and they don't even cost the same. I only use Evinrude oil even though there has been an endless discussion of whether or not Walmart TCW3 is the same as the more expensive oil the outboard manufacturers make.
Re: Two cycle oil, who is right? Mechanic, marina, or manufacturer?
Then of course the Salesman will recommend the oil that reaps the highest profit margin per gallon.
Or, they don't know their a$$ from their elbow anyway. For example, years ago when I bought a brand new boat with a Mercruiser, it specifically stated in the manual NOT to use multi-viscosity oil but Mercruiser oil IS mulit-viscosity oil. I got fed up and went down to the dealer and asked them what oil they were using............they had no clue, all they knew was they took it out of the 55 gallon drum in the corner of the shop. Trained mechanics.
Sometimes the best answer will come from yourself.
Re: Two cycle oil, who is right? Mechanic, marina, or manufacturer?
TCW3 whether it comes the highest price store you can find or not. It's not like a car that sits in a pan and has to be changed. Just buy the silver bottle of 2cycle TCW3 from wallyworld or boaters world which ever is cheaper and go fish. I've ran the cheapest oil I can find in TCW3 have for 12 years ina yam 130v4 not a prob yet. Good Luck
Re: Two cycle oil, who is right? Mechanic, marina, or manufacturer?
Years ago my father took in his 115 merc to the local merc dealer. While the merc certified mech was going over the motor he casually said to my dad, "Hey I see you always use quicksilver oil". I forget what exactly he was looking at that made him say this , but my dad's reply was "no i dont and i never have". The mech again said that he was sure from looking at whatever he was looking at that my dad used quicksilver. My dad said no its only ever had texaco oil. He said oh yeah same thing. Said merc didnt own their own refinery. Dad told him no, it was 1/2 price.
RE: Two cycle oil, who is right? Mechanic, marina, or manufacturer?
Quote:
RussH - 5/26/2007 12:41 PM
I told the mechanic that the factory told me I should be using FICHT but I had problems with this oil, he agreed that the FICHT oil wouldn't cause any damage but I should be using the green oil.
Can anyone tell me which is the right oil I should be using?? What color is XD50 and XD30 and what is the difference between the two??
Thanks, Russ
The first thing to realize is that BRP does NOT make a green oil!!!!!!!! that mechanic told you a fib, or didn't know anything about Evinrude oils.
Re: Two cycle oil, who is right? Mechanic, marina, or manufacturer?
OK, with all these answers the real truth ought to be about as clear as two stroke oil.
To get to the bottom of it though you first need to ignore everyone else but me. Tongue in cheek here.
Seriously though, it makes sense to me that oil is formulated for a specific purpose. Some of it lubes the chain on a chain saw and some is in the crankcase at Indianapolis. If you agree that those oils are different then my explanation of two stroke oils and their differences shouldn't be too hard to swallow.
Some two stroke engines mix oil in the gasoline. This happens with the owner either pouring it directly into the gas tank, or an injection pump introducing the oil into the gasoline somewhere along the line before it enters the combustion chamber. The latter is what happens in a VRO engine. Either way, the oil is mixed with the gasoline before combustion.
Modern DFI two strokes do not have oil mixed in the gasoline. In these engines the oil is injected into a stream of air. Oil without gasoline has different challenges than a mix. For one it must be distributed to all lubrication points with only air flow. For another, minus the gasoline, it must operate in a higher temperature atmosphere. Makes sense to me that we need two different oils.
So, to answer your question, who is right, the manufacturer or the mechanic? Whichever one told you not to use an oil formulated for a specific application in the other application is right. Ficht oil, or XD50, or XD100, or Optimax oil, should not be used in your engine. XD30, or any TCW 3 oil is what it should have, no matter what color it is.
Re: Two cycle oil, who is right? Mechanic, marina, or manufacturer?
In a 1990 225 I would use whatever TCW 3 oil I felt best with. To be honest, I always like Pennzoil TCW 3 or regular Mercury Oil.... I would not use XD 30 or any XD Oils. I would use the regular thicker Evinrude oil. BTW I used to run a 1989 225 Evinrude on a patrol boat I I know for sure it only required TCW 2 Oil. Also take for example Mercury Opti Oil, it warns you not to use it on anything but a DFI Engine. Good Luck
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Re: Two cycle oil, who is right? Mechanic, marina, or manufacturer?
Evinrude never owned a refinery. When did BRP buy a refinery? Where is it located?
I used that Pennsoil TCW-3 from WMart when KMart stopped bringing in Havoline TCW3. 14 yrs later that motor is still running after a lower unit complete seal replacement. No other problem with it. I think its going on 15 yrs. now.
NMMA is now making money with their 4stroke outboard designation. Probably regular motor oil with a tint. They've been running that scam for over 30 yrs. Why would they change now?
Soon as my warranty is out I go to regular automotive motor oil. That oil is not in there long enough to absorb any kinda moisture. Damn thing requires an oil change every 100 hours which is about every 3 mos. for me..
Re: Two cycle oil, who is right? Mechanic, marina, or manufacturer?
Any outboard that was limited to using just one brand of oil would take it completely off the option list for me. Not even a chance I would limit myself to that oil's availability here, no matter what other fantastic claims their marketing department made for their engine.
Re: Two cycle oil, who is right? Mechanic, marina, or manufacturer?
This is very similar to the motorcyle boards on the subject of oil.
Harley Davidson wants us to use Harley Davidson oil in the bikes, of course, wonder why? At double the price.
Harley Davidson does not make oil. Someone puts a HD sticker on a black oil bottle. Who? Whoever produced the LOW BID to furnish them with oil in a black bottle.
But Harley Davidson oil is "specially designed for air cooled engines". Yeah right.
These bikes cost more than an outboard, so we take care of them along with running them hard. It never made me nervous to go to Aid Auto or Pep Boys to buy oil when it is on sale.
We all use Mobile 1 oil in the bikes. I do not know anyone who goes down to the dealer and drops 50 bucks for HD oil. The motors run cooler using the Mobile 1 Teflon, fact. The 'black can' oil is for the newbies with fat wallets ($400 for an oil change and 2 spark plugs) who don't turn their own wrenches and have the complete matching black wardobe to go with the bike and ride 30 miles a month on Sunday's, if it is picture perfect weather outside.
Motors do not know the name on the labels. They are either getting oil with the right ratings/specs or not.
Re: Two cycle oil, who is right? Mechanic, marina, or manufacturer?
I felt kind of bad this weekend, Iwas in a bind, needed some oil for the 2000 115 johnson vro..., bought the walmart/supertech stuff tcw3...., dumped it in, ran the engine for about 5 hours, couldn't tell a difference, it actually smoked less than the johnson brand xd-25 started easier..., I kept listening for little sounds, like a rod letting go, or a bearing being scorched....never happened...,...now, will I continue to use it?...I don't know...., I have heard not to mix synthetic oil with regular though...., btw, the supertech stuff was half price of the johnson..., I also only run xd-100 in the etecs...I think with DI's, you pretty much need to run manufacturer oil.
Re: Two cycle oil, who is right? Mechanic, marina, or manufacturer?
Oh Boy!!!!!!!!......an oil thread with boats and motorcycles.
>>>>>"Harley Davidson does not make oil. Someone puts a HD sticker on a black oil bottle. Who? Whoever produced the LOW BID to furnish them with oil in a black bottle.
But Harley Davidson oil is "specially designed for air cooled engines". Yeah right.">"We all use Mobile 1 oil in the bikes. I do not know anyone who goes down to the dealer and drops 50 bucks for HD oil. The motors run cooler using the Mobile 1 Teflon, fact. The 'black can' oil is for the newbies with fat wallets ($400 for an oil change and 2 spark plugs) who don't turn their own wrenches and have the complete matching black wardobe to go with the bike and ride 30 miles a month on Sunday's, if it is picture perfect weather outside. ">>"Motors do not know the name on the labels. They are either getting oil with the right ratings/specs or not. "
RE: Two cycle oil, who is right? Mechanic, marina, or manufacturer?
I heard that song and dance, so I did an experiment. I took yamaha, merc and 'rude oils........mixed them and left them for 2 mos. then put 'em through a strainer........no gelling whatsoever. I think as long as it is meant for outboards and is tcw3, youre ok
Re: Two cycle oil, who is right? Mechanic, marina, or manufacturer?
TCW3 is an industry standard for who ever refines the crude. The Opti states to use low ash oil to prevent carbon hot spots. The wally world tcw3 is a no ash oil as stated on the label, been using it for years. Kendal made the Merc oil for many years and probably for many other engine mfgs.
__________________ Living in South Carolina, fishing any place. "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf". G. Orwell
Re: Two cycle oil, who is right? Mechanic, marina, or manufacturer?
When they say not to mix oils is it okay to use one oil until my tank is empty and than switch to a different brand? By the way I run on 2 portable tanks so for me its not an issue to run a tank dry. thanks
Re: Two cycle oil, who is right? Mechanic, marina, or manufacturer?
Quote:
KevinM - 5/29/2007 8:25 AM
Your manual should state certified TCW 3, that's what you should use.
Local Motion - just an FYI the large outboards could cost upwards over $20K
KevinM,
FYI- a HD Screaming Eagle Edition FLHT from your local Harley dealer can be over $30,000. It is not out of the question for a "full custom" harley clone to have an engine alone that costs more than $50,000.
Two cycle oil, who is right? Mechanic, marina, or manufacturer? 
