Yamaha 4Stroke 225 HP Oil Leak. Help Please !

[Albabes]

I have 2 (x) Yamaha 4 Stroke 225 hp engines(Year 2002) . I have had undetected leaking oil for quite some time ( out of my port engine ) .............it has just been diagnosed as oil leaking through the crank shaft seal due to damaged or worn crank shaft.

It began sometime between 4/2004 and early year 2005. The Dealer consistantly told me not to worry, it was probably just spillage from the oil changes which was unavoidable. Then somewhere end of 2004 beginning of 2005 the low oil alarm went off while fishing one day off the coast of South FL and the gauges indicated it was the Starboard Engine. Was in a rough gulfstream that day but I shut it down and the dipstick was reading ok. Started it up and retured to dock. Called dealer and asked if there was any reason that the alarm would go off by mistake, etc etc. He said he could not really say. He asked me to check the Port engine. sure enough it was off the stick- TOOK 2 Full Quarts. He said the boat was crossed wired at the gauges so the alarm was showing the Starboard engine rather than the Port. Said he would correct the wiring next service. He explained away the 2 quarts as a watch and see. Maybe it was just a tech who didn't fill completely last service. There was no visible leakage in cowling area, etc.

Well on the 18 mile trek to the dealer 2 1/2 weeks ago 3/2007, the LOW OIL alarm went off again, this time pointing to the port engine since the wiring had been corrected at the gauge end. It took 2 full quarts. Now I'm worried. I told the service mgr. at the dealer when I get there (since the original tech was no longer there) and the first thing he said was we will check the crank seal for leakage since we have seen seveal cases of it with the 225 4 stroke.

Sure enough 4 days later I get the dreaded call.... It took my dealer until this service cycle (3/2007) to diagnose mainly because I have only put 50 hrs or less on the boat since 11/2005 which was my last major service/and oil change ( lack of boat use is due to my health-knee problems that began in early 2005 ).... But the oil leak problem began potentially as early as 4/2004, just not sure. I estimate that I had approximately 600 to 750 hours on the engines the first time the low oil alarm sounded

Any way dealer now claims they have seen this problem before in this Yamaha 225 4 stroke engine. I have yet to get a answer as to how long ago the first case was realized , or if Yamaha has any statistics on the problem.

There is not a inexpensive solution to this leak as you may or not be aware.

Would appreciate knowing if anyone else with Yamaha 225 or 250 4stokes year 2002 til present have had any CRANK SEAL LEAKage problems, as well as what progress you have had with your dealers / or Yamaha ???

Someone else from another forum has emailed me that he had power head replaced due to unrepairable grooves in crank on year2004 Yamaha 225 hp 4strokes with only 527 hours on them. ........ Also another individual with 2004 225hp 4strokes on that forum had the same issue but has not responded as to his hours or resolutions.



Thank you in advance for any input
Albabes

[FireFly]

Never heard of anyone else with this problem which only means that it's not a common problem. Keep us in the loop and let us know the outcome.

[kmac]

What do you need help with? It sounds like you've had an unfortunate problem with your motor. Are you just looking for other people with a similar problem to make you feel better? I guess it sounds like you're more upset with the dealer for not catching the problem before. Was it under warranty when you first noticed and it is now not? Is that why you're mad. I mean as long as there was no damage to the power head what difference does it make if you fixed it in 04 or now. The F225s have been a very reliable motor as a whole but of coarse there are always exceptions. I would not expect yamaha to do a whole lot for you if the motor is out of warranty. Sorry man. By the way I have 2 03 F225s with 950 hours and no problems at all with oil leakage or otherwise.

[rodbolt]

your dealer is dishonest, whoever did the PDI gundecked it. thats the first problem.
if you have any documentation as to the start of the problem as wellas the cross wireing and the PDI sheet then call yamaha's consumer line. your dealer should have already called the RTA.
its amazing the hoops Yamaha will do for situations like yours if your dealer is honest with them.
but part of the PDI is to test and verify both overheat and low oilalarm. next time your at the dealer ask to see their resistors that MUST be used to perform the test. out of 6 techs where I contract for I have the only set.
the rest simply gun deck it.
however if its a legal document, and the PDI sheet is, if my signature is one it the procedure was done.
I personnaly have never seen the issue with a crankshaft, I see a few oil pumps with bad seal.
only way to tellis really to pull the power head for a looksee.

[Tailwalker]

Albabes,

I have heard of two other 225's with the same issue. However, both of those leaked so badly that it was quickly diagnosed and corrected. Also it happened on them with less than 100 hrs within the first year. That was 2004. Yamaha replaced the powerheads on both of those motors. Have them do a leak down test on your motor to dtrm if there has been premature wear in the cylinders. There really is now way to know if the cranks suffered short of pulling down the motor. 2 quarts really should not harm the motor. Especially if you shut it off or corrected the low oil before running them hard.

[Albabes]

kmac - 4/17/2007 4:40 PM What do you need help with?

Thought that was clearly stated. "Leaking crank seal due to irreparable grooves / damage to crank shaft"

kmac - 4/17/2007 4:40 PM It sounds like you've had an unfortunate problem with your motor.

Unfortunate and Expensive

kmac - 4/17/2007 4:40 PM Are you just looking for other people with a similar problem to make you feel better?

No, I am not looking for other people with the same problem to feel better...... I thought it was obvious that I was looking for others with a leaking crank seal to see if there was a "silent" type recall ....since 2002 was the first production year (or was it 2001) Yamaha had the 225hp on the market. I do not believe I am immature enough to think that finding others with the same problem would make me feel better, much less ask such a question...

kmac - 4/17/2007 4:40 PM I guess it sounds like you're more upset with the dealer for not catching the problem before.

You got it! But can not fully hold him accountable since when I reported the incident the dealer had not seen ANY problems with the 225 at the time. Since he is a GRADY WHITE dealer he can not sell anything but Yamaha. In south FL he sells alot of them. So the problem went undiagnosed for all of the reasons in the original post

kmac - 4/17/2007 4:40 PM Was it under warranty when you first noticed and it is now not?

Very well might have been. The first low oil alarm went off between 100 hour service intervals on approx 4/2004 and October 2005. Boat and engines went out of warranty 9/2004. 1)Two quarts of oil at 1st alarm time and 2)with swithed guage wiring harness and 3) another oil change at a 100 hour service in October 2005 masked a repeat of another alarm "due to a slow leak". Also year 2005 had 2 major Hurricanes ending that summer that did my hydrohoist in - which in turn then caused the boat to be in dry dock for 3 months of non - use due to virgin bottom at the time. Hoist problems also caused a dry dock spell during 2 months when the engines were passing out of warranty the previous 2004 year after bad summer weather.

kmac - 4/17/2007 4:40 PM Is that why you're mad?

Not mad in the least. I am researching blogs to track my specific issue. Which by the way, I believe sites like this, are valuable . Not just in this arena of special interest, but countless topics I suspect....

kmac - 4/17/2007 4:40 PM I mean as long as there was no damage to the power head what difference does it make if you fixed it in 04 or now.

About $4,500 to $6,000 due crank damage / seal / labor

kmac - 4/17/2007 4:40 PM The F225s have been a very reliable motor as a whole but of coarse there are always exceptions.

Agreed! I have another healthy one. I want it to stay that way. As I stated in my original post, a simple google search produced two other 225 HP owners with the same exact problem in 2004 motors with just over 500 hours on them which is when mine started. The only differenced is mine went undiagnosed to the reasons above 2 and 1/2 years before they had their problem.

kmac - 4/17/2007 4:40 PM I would not expect yamaha to do a whole lot for you if the motor is out of warranty. Sorry man.

Thanks for your input as well as your vote of confidence. Jury is still out until the dealer matches up code output from Yamaha computer program on engine which are based on hours - with service records , half of which are not computerized and may be researched by hand on service file. This will teach me to keep my own records from this day forward as well as dates of phone calls and discussions / ALARMS !

kmac - 4/17/2007 4:40 PM By the way I have 2 03 F225s with 950 hours and no problems at all with oil leakage or otherwise.

Glad to hear it! As well I have a healthy Starbord. Thanks for your consructive input. Happy Boating

kmac - 4/17/2007 4:40 PM

[Albabes]

rodbolt - 4/17/2007 6:21 PM

your dealer is dishonest, whoever did the PDI gundecked it. thats the first problem.
if you have any documentation as to the start of the problem as wellas the cross wireing and the PDI sheet then call yamaha's consumer line. your dealer should have already called the RTA.
its amazing the hoops Yamaha will do for situations like yours if your dealer is honest with them.

Good input rodbolt ! I am positive the dealer is not dishonest. I have done business with him through 2 new Grady's and 1 used boat over the coarse of 17 years. And yes Yahmaha was the first one I called at the dealer's suggestion to get the incident on file. They were very responsive and said they would follow through with the dealer. My sales person and the GM are also being very helpful with documenting the issue and a timeline.

Thanks again for the PDI info, etc and your experience with the engine. This the kind of info I hoped for.
Regards,
Albabes

[rodbolt]

if the dealer did not gundeck the PDI the switched guages would have been caught. its a box the checking tech has to cross off. read your PDI sheet that YOU also signed and let me know.
from what you say it was either done by an incompetent 6 buck an hour rigger or gundecked.
and this is why Yamaha is now serielizing the PDI sheets to the engine and keeping them.
should have been done 10 years ago.
but work with your dealer, keep any and all documentation. make sure its the crank and not the oilpump. the oilpump is NOT mounted on the engine.
dont get nasty with anyone and its amazing what yamaha will do to aid a customer.
trust me on that one.

[Albabes]

Tailwalker - 4/17/2007 7:14 PM

Albabes,

I have heard of two other 225's with the same issue. ......it happened on them with less than 100 hrs within the first year. That was 2004.

Dear Tailwalker, Great response. Yes I located (2) other 2004 owners with a simalar issue with power heads replaced but they both had in excess of 500 hrs each.

Glad to hear 2 quarts low would have not caused damage. Both alarms although they were close to 3 yrs apart probably did not span more than 200 engine hours. The last one though was probably only 45 hours of engine time, but over 14 months of calender - from an oil change.

Tailwalker - 4/17/2007 7:14 PM Have them do a leak down test on your motor to dtrm if there has been premature wear in the cylinders. There really is now way to know if the cranks suffered short of pulling down the motor.

Good suggestion. I'll mention to dealer. Thanks

Tailwalker - 4/17/2007 7:14 PM 2 quarts really should not harm the motor. Especially if you shut it off or corrected the low oil before running them hard.

Yeah! I maybe going deaf in my old age but when alarms go off ... even if infrequently, I pay attention and shut things down and start snoopin'. Problem is the 1st time it happened mid 2004 to end of 2005 the wiring swap had me confused, and the alarm did not sound off again before I discovered it was really the Port engine and added 2 quarts of oil back at the dock. Always kept 4 quarts on board since the original alarm. Put 2 quarts in immediately 3 weeks ago after the second alarm 2 1/2 years later.

Thanks for your input
Albabes

[Kilo Papa]

Call Grady White and ask to speak with their customer service representative.
Grady will not leave you hanging on a service related problem, even if it is on factory installed Yamaha motors.

[Albabes]

rodbolt - 4/17/2007 7:49 PM
dont get nasty with anyone and its amazing what yamaha will do to aid a customer.
trust me on that one.

Thanks for the input Rodbolt, It's a 2002 production boat and engine rig. Yamaha was extremely gracious over the phone as you say.. Dealer is cooperating as well. It may or may not have been in warranty at the 1st alarm. But I told them that and I know them to go to beyond the warranty on some issues as you say.
Thanks

Albabes