Yamaha F225 (4 Stroke) vs. Yamaha Z250 (2 stroke) HPDI

[fishsmith]

Hi All,
My buddy is getting a new 2320 Parker sport cabin and asked if I'd post the following question:

I am finally ready to buy the boat of my dreams and am not sure what to do from the power standpoint. My options are the F225 or the Z250 Yamaha motor. From my reading, it seems as though this is a no brainer, the 4 stroke takes the cake, however the salesman recommends the two stroke. My main concern is fuel economy and Oil usage, the operating costs of the boat. The other concern is cost, but these engines are about the same price. Does anyone have any information that will push me in either direction? Any response is greatly appreciated.

[SCAngler]

BOTH ARE GOOD ENGINES but i think your freind would want the performance of the 250 hpdi as the f225 ferforms closer to the 2oo hpdi.they will be about the same as far as fuel usage granted you have the oil usage on the hpdi but it's not that bad considering the xtra get up & go under full load you would get from the 250.also don't forget you have the the oil change on the four stroke.good luck on your frends new boat

[Only On A Fly]

I would opt for the 250 Hpdi. Here are my reason's 1-The oil & gas consumption & noise would not be a factor. 2- The maintenance on the 4 stroke will be more. 3- The Hpdi will be a better performer ( out of the hole better 7 better in a following sea ). I have run twin 115 - 4's & was very happy w/them for the exception of get up & go. I've been on boat's w/the 225 -4 & boat's w/200 Hpdi's & the Hpdi's are better.

Also as the above post stated U have to change the motor oil every 100 hour's. There's alot more maintenance w/the 4's. If U don't use the boat alot there's no saving's buying a 4.I just orderd a new boat & went w/the 200 Hpdi's & I use my boat almost every day the season. Just my 0.02.

Good luck w/your friend's decision.

[fishsmith]

Thanks for the replys guys, I've posted this question around on a few sites and I'll keep editing this post with the replies I get, as it stands now there are 6 votes for 2 strokes and 16 votes for 4 strokes:
(good question Bluemarlin, he got the cabin to extend the season so I'd say he'll do 300+ hrs a year)

1)I have read alot on this comparison and if you go over to tht.com you will find alot of information. If it were me if the 4-stroke 225 is enough power for the boat it's a no brainer imo. The fuel economy will be much better especially at low rpm, you will not have the hassle and expense of adding oil, there will also be no fumes. Now with all this said the 250, will be a faster motor to plane and top end. If you are into speed get the 250hp 2-stroke.
From an investment standpoint future resale of the boat if you decide to sell in the future will be greater with the 4-stroke......I guess the only question is will the 225hp be enough hp for that particular boat?
I do know there are alot of heavy 23' boats out there running the 225hp Yamaha and Honda engines and most seem to be very pleased with performance, and economy...

2)It's a good bet that the 4-stroke will give you much better fuel economy than the 2-stroke. The difference in oil comsuption will be less also, as the 4-stroke does not burn oil. Just needs a regular change. Since preformance is not a top priority and the cost is about the same, it is a no brainer!!

3)I have read similar things as well. My bet (for what its worth) is to go for the 2 stroke . Both are good engines and there is no "wrong " decision here, but these are my reasons

A) cost...4 stokes are significantly more costly to buy
B) Weight: for a given HP, the added weight is also significant
C) HP...ratings vary but look at HP at the prop 2 cycles tend to deliver what is advertised, but 4 cycles tend to come in noticably less (*in some cases*)
D) Fuel eff in the newer FI 2 cycles have gotten quite a bit better in the last few years too and while the 4 cycle will probably win out I don't think there is a huge gain in fuel savings as there once was. On some models I think the 2 cycle actually is better on fuel. (but not by very much)
E)Also while not as quiet as a 4 cycle they have been improved quite a bit here too. 4 cycles are quieter and do run better at low speed. But I don't think the cost justifies it (yet) for those savings.
D) There are also lot more moving parts in the 4 cycle.
Again, I honestly don't think you can make a wrong decision here, and I do they that 4 cycles will rule the day...but IMO 4 cycles have a few more years yet. They need to get the weight down, and HP up and cost down.
Bottom line: bang for the buck...2 cycles still have the upper hand but the 4 cycle is a finally mature enough to

4)I'm a 4 stroke fan, my next boat may very well have one. However, for a heavy Parker sport cabin I would go with the 250 HPDI. (Actually, given the option I would go with the Evinrude 250, but I know you are limited to the Yamahas.)
The 250 HPDI has an all new 3342 cc block which compares favorably to the F225's 3352 cc block. Low end torque should be pretty much the same and the greater top-end of the HPDI will probably make it more efficient at 4000 RPM and above cruising speeds.

5)I just went through this same exercise while re-powering my boat and the people on this board were great. I decided on the 4strokes for many reason but the quite operation and economy were the keys. I also did not realize that the Johnson's were made by Suzuki and got a better deal on the Suzi's.

6)The Z250 is Yamaha's new 2003 HPDI 3.3L big block. I don't have any history on this outboard, or know anyone who runs one. You may want to wait and see how this outboard pans out over time, although IMO (and JD Power), the Yamaha's all have a good reputation. The F225 has been out for a few years and it's been extremely good.
Besides the 25 hp difference (hardly noticeable) here are some differences between the two...
F225 = 583 lbs
Z250 = 543 lbs
F225 Alternator output = 45 amps
Z250 Alternator output = 50 amps
F225 max rpm = 6000
Z250 max rpm = 5500
F225 gear ratio = 2.00
Z250 gear ratio = 1.81
F225 warranty = 3 years
Z250 warranty = 2 years

The Z250 is oil injecected and direct fuel injected. The F250 has an oil sump and it's also fuel injected. Prop performance would be similar since the increased rpm of the F225 is made up with a higher gear ratio.
Because of proven success and reliability, and the better warranty, I'd go with the F225.

[This message was edited by fishsmith on 03-14-03 at 02:25 PM.]

[This message was edited by fishsmith on 03-26-03 at 08:27 AM.]

[BlueMarlin]

for average rec use I would get the 250HPDI... If he used the boat 300-400 hours a year... I might go to the 4-stroke.

[Reel Pursuit]

that's a heavy boat. You're going to need the 250hp. A 225 may be slightyly underpowered. At times, you'll wish you had more. Fuel consumption should be very close between the 2.

[rhayman]

Just a comment about performance of the 4 stroke. I have a friend who has a 27 ft. Eastern, Chesapeake Model, very similar but larger than a Parker 25 ft. Sport Cabin, equipped with a Honda 225 four stroke and he tops out at 43 miles per hour via GPS. I own a Yamaha F100 on a 23 ft. Carolina skiff and I top out at 42 MPH. According to tests, the Yamaha and Honda 225 HP four strokes are very close in performance.


Just my comments regarding the performance of four strokes.

[Blue C's]

I own the Parker 2300 DV CC w/F225 Yamaha. The boat came equipped with the 4-stroke and I love it! As I stated in other posts, I have been a long time Yamaha owner(2-strokes), but now, would never own a 2-stroke again, unless the boat I wanted came with a 2- stroke. I would buy either motor, but given the choice would take the 4-stroke any day! I often wonder how many boater's on this forum have ever owned both 2 and 4 stroke motors as I have as the "performance" issues are in my opinion are a non-issue! The biggest difference in "off the line" performance that I have seen, on similar equipped boats, has been .4 seconds! .4 seconds may mean something to a top fuel dragster, but, to you and me out fishing, get real! My father-in-law owns a Hydrasport with the 250 Yamaha and I must say, is an extremely quiet and smooth motor,but,when he fishes in my boat, says he would take the 4-stroke over the 250 if he had the choice.As in any "drag" race, there is driver error and reaction time involved. I would welcome any other Parker, similar to mine, equipped with a 2-stroke of the same H.P., to do a comparison.I almost guarantee the numbers would be so close that they would not even be arguable.
As I do agree, your friend would be happy with either motor, GET THE 4-STROKE!Even if the performance numbers and fuel mileage were identical, the quietness, smoothness and not having oil smoke or reservoir to deal with is worth it. When you start talking about price being an issue, then nobody would own a Yamaha as they are the highest priced motor on the market, at least in this area.So bottom line could be "you get what you pay for" and in my mind, the Yamaha 4-stroke is as good as it gets!

[Blue C's]

Might I add to the "off the line" performance comments. From what I understand, the Parker 2300 DV CC w/F225 Yamahs is on plane in 4 seconds. If the same boat with a 2-stroke is .4 seconds faster and if plane speed is around 20 m.p.h., then.4 seconds is less than 11 feet! This works out to less than half a boat length from 0 to plane! Where in the world would this difference ever matter, other than a drag race? Wow, I never realized I was losing so badly by owning the 4-stroke!

[fishsmith]

Great replies, thanks.
Parker - Good point on the price issue, Yams are only behind Honda, and they're in parkers pocket so the only choice is the 4 vs 2.
Me I'm sportin an 1984 75hp rude on my 84 Seaway, so all the prices I see make me puke.

[dor]

Guys the new hpdi are a big improvement over the old 2 cycle motors. To me its a no brainer, buy the 250. Many folks ive talked to who have 23 Regulators w/225 4 strokes are very disappointed in the performance. How much does the Parker weigh? Also gauge acceptable performance in the 4000 - 4500 RPM range not at higher RPM 's.

[SeaJay]

I don't know much about those engines, but the parker is considered to be a very heavy hull.

[dor]

The 250 hpdi is a totally different motor than the old OX66 saltwater series with regard to smoking, noise level and rough running a slow speeds.

[pogyoil]

I have talked with several people who own the F225's or 250 HPDIs. The 225 owners seem to be happier. It sounds like they are still working the bugs out of the 250's. Nothing big. Typic first model year things like excessive oil burn, etc. But I heard more than one of them say that someone convinced them to buy the HPDI's and now they wish they had gone with the 4-stroke.

[EDIT]

I heard this same stuff again while wandering around the Contender Dock at the Naples SKA tournament this past weekend. The reason I responded to this post is that I heard from more than one person that a dealer had pushed them towards the HPDI's and now they wished they had the 4-strokes

[NewMoon]

The HPDI's do infact smoke, maybe not to the degree of older 2-stroke designs but they still do. Also consider the expenses of oil ($10-15 gal) with gas prices expected to be pushing $2.50+ a gallon at the marina, ring free, and fouled plugs at low rpms....Is that extra 2-5 mph worth the above aggrevation?

202 Scout Sportfisher, Suzuki 140HP, fish out of Point Judith, RI

[chunga]

I have a 23SCDV with an F225 on a bracket.

If you nail the throttle I can guarantee that, unless prepared, all occupants of the boat will be injured and/or fall out.

Granted, I don't do much racing, but power is fine. I carry a lot of gear.

I have another boat with a 2-stroke. I won't even consider going back.

Aside from a belt squeak that went away after a few hours of use, the motor has operated flawlessy. (~250 hrs if memory serves)

[remmer4]

MY 2 cents the 4 stroke- I have a 200 honda and love it- the quietness and no smell. Never againa 2 stroke (Yes the HPDI's smell less than the old 2 strokes but they smell when yr trolling down wind.)

Think the notes are right on-
clearly 4 stroke not as quick per HP and more sensitive to propping over prop and you kill them , check the Yamaha performance bulletins I think your boat may be listed didnt recheck.
small gas savings- with 4 stroke, more if you troll a lot not much if any at cruise HPDI basically same at cruise

My guess is 4 stroke will have a better resale- but crystal ball may be broken on that point.
Good luck

[freshfish]

If you plan on running a long ways with a heavy boat you may want the HPDI 250. If not, get the 4-stroke 225 it idles so much better. If you do not troll at all either motor is a good choice.

[Wayne Tj]

Last season I fished many hours on two identical 2002 23' Contenders - one had a 200 HPDI Yamaha and the other had a Honda 200 4 stroke. When I bought my 2003 Parker 23SE this winter, I went with the F225 Yamaha. The four stroke is smoother and cleaner. The performance curve were nearly identical, that I couldn't tell the difference without the aid of instruments. The bottom line for me was which engine made the time on the water more enjoyable - and that is what it is all about for me

[Blue C's]

The weirdest thing for me is telling or suggesting to someone not to buy any kind of Yamaha motor, whether 2 or 4 stroke. In my history of owning only Yamaha products I would be happy to own whatever was rigged on my boat at the time. If the boat I was in love with came rigged with 2-strokes, I would not think twice about it, would still buy it. I would probably be telling you how much I like the 2-strokes.I think the same holds true here! While I now own the 4-stroke and highly reccommend it, I still think either of the two are outstanding motors.