Does a Dealer have to honor their written Bill of Sale? He wants to back out.

[kloweree]

welder - 3/31/2007 11:48 AM

She[ the dealer ] wrote down what that dealer would take for the boat and the buyer accepted it. Both parties agreed.
Done deal.

I had the same thing happen to me once regarding a Cobia CC....with me the salesman
wrote out the entire transaction even including the trade-inprice.....when I showed up with the check the Dealership owner told me he was voiding the deal and overriding
what the salesman did....(He wanted to give me less on my trade-in).....I told them they were pieces of sh* and they should fire their useless salemen if the owner was just going to void their deals. really p'od me.......I also sent an e-mail to Cobia blasting their dealer on Long Island. l

[Tireless]

I think it is time to consult the experts and stop all of this internet Perry Mason stuff.....

[walden75]

My Turn - 3/31/2007 12:16 PM

why would you want to do business with this guy now? if you are going to need and warranty service after he has your money how do you think you will be treated? Thank him for alerting you to what an a-hole he is, go find a good business to deal with. Life is too short.

Needing warranty work is not concern, its an aluminum Vhull, with 2 pumps in it (livewell/ bilge) Nav lights and an 11gal gas tank.....the decks are easily removable I can lift them up to replace the carpet no problem....if the hull splits open....then I take it to any warranty center and get it taken of. I would NOT go out to buy this boat for a 2007 price, more than I want to spend on a boat I will only use a few times a year, but I do want something, and this fits nicely (not to mention my father can use it and get out of that duck boat he's using now for fishing lakes & rivers). Im not gonna start calling the guy names, I'll keep it professional and hoping he'll do the same.

From what Im gathering here, it seems to be a case-by-case basis on whether or not he will/should/have to honor that written Bill of Sale.

elcosito - 3/31/2007 12:37 PM

A "good deal" is when both (seller and buyer) are happy with it. Why would you want to make a "BAD" deal?...what goes around, comes around.

If its such a bad deal, then why would his wife, registered Vice President of the company (as reported on the BBB Online) make me the counter offer? She was sitting there looking at the invoice, and told me she'd meet me half way in the price?? I said OK....the fuss is the fact I called the Manufacturer to ask about the warranty info, he thinks Im trying to go around him, when all I did was confirm info straight from the horses mouth.....we're still talking about a boat dealer here...they'll tell me WHATEVER I want to hear to get my to buy it...or so Ive learned.

Just b/c Im getting a better deal out of this, doesnt make me out to be the bad guy....I raised some questions that nobody really wanted to answer and thats what all the fuss is over?? How I see it, They made the offer on the final price, I agreed. It seems maybe this is alittle case of Pride, more than it is $$. Before I made that phone call they were perfectly happy to say OK to the sale, Boat as is, but now theyre back peddling.

Again thanks for the useful info as far as the Bill of Sale being binding or not.

[delmar]

he's just fishing to see if you'll bite on a higher price. the old "sweet pea" set up, just say thank but not thanks and walk out the door, let him think about sitting on it another couple years. i'll bet you get a call in a week or so....

[Tail_Gunner]

This is a pretty simple issue, the answer is no contrary to what you might believe. Until the owner or dealer agree's to a price and you accept his offer with full payment the contract well there is no contract. A bit hard but it's called a performance contract, Any time you buy a car or a boat you will alway's recieve a bill of sale, now if you finance it you will recieve a bill of sale and a finance contract, two differnent document's totally.

This individiual you are working with, id turn and run no matter how good the deal, i guess you should know even a deposit will not work in a court of law, why simple you have not performed on the contract again and until you do either side can back down, and it work's the other way aka if you give a dealer a deposit and want to back out, he cannot keep the deposit, he can bluster and bluff but will lose in a court of law...................... Just a opinion your milage may vary......

[ColdBusted]

Personally it seems to me a case of " you should have let the dealer deal with it." They were already selling to you at a loss. Not to mention the interest paid. So I'm sure they weren't too happy about that, but sometimes you have to do what you need to to move a leftover. Then calling the Manufacturer probably pushed him over on it. I'm sure he was thinking, " what are you going to nit pick me on next?" or go to the manufacturer with next. Sometimes, it's just not worth the loss to do business with someone. I think in this instance, it's probably best that both the buyer and the dealer just go their seperate ways.

[Tedj101]

[/quote]

As I recall from college Business Law, you need "good and valuable consideration" to make a contract. If you didn't leave a deposit or pay for it, there's no "consideration" and the contract isn't accepted yet, no matter what's written down.


Your own interpretation may vary.[/quote]

While I agree with the article that you quoted (yes, I am an attorney), you don't need to have a deposit to make a contract enforceable. It is very common in a bi-lateral contract (as opposed to a unilateral contract) for the consideration on both sides to be promises -- i.e. the seller promises to sell you the boat at $XX and you promise to pay him the $XX for the boat. In that case, the consideration is the mutual promises by the parties.

Note also, that, in general, there is no need for a formal contract to be written out. Just about anything in writing that states the essential terms of the agreement will do (and there are a myriad of situations where a deal of this size can be enforceable without a wrting at all - such as where a deposit is given by the buyer and accepted by the seller).

The real problem with this deal is that there is an indication that the negotiations were not final given that the owner said he couldn't do the deal and the buyer said he would consider a different deal. That tends to indicate that there was no "meeting of the minds".

Now the sad part. All this talk about what is legal is all well and good, but the sorry fact is that few of us can afford to assert our legal rights. The cost of litigation is so high that few individuals and many, many businesses simply can't afford the cost of vindicating their position in court.

Having said all that, contracts are creatures of state law which vary somewhat from state to state. The only way to be really sure what your rights are is to contact someone licensed to practice law in your state. (OK, I gotta put a disclaimer in here lest someone rely on my post and sue me for malpractice if things don't turn out as they expect ).

I hope this helps!

TED

[ShellbackCVA59]

ColdBusted - 3/31/2007 8:20 PM

Personally it seems to me a case of " you should have let the dealer deal with it." They were already selling to you at a loss. Not to mention the interest paid. So I'm sure they weren't too happy about that, but sometimes you have to do what you need to to move a leftover. Then calling the Manufacturer probably pushed him over on it. I'm sure he was thinking, " what are you going to nit pick me on next?" or go to the manufacturer with next. Sometimes, it's just not worth the loss to do business with someone. I think in this instance, it's probably best that both the buyer and the dealer just go their seperate ways.

Although you probably meant no harm contacting the manufacturer, I can see the dealer having the thoughts the above poster made. Pretty much a natural reaction when you are selling at a loss, that you sure don't want to deal with any problems after the sale.

[njmello]

Tedj101 is right. The only caveat I would offer is, usually, if an agreement is made 'in good faith' between parties and either party proceeds to act in 'good faith' to conclude the terms of the agreement, a transfer of 'valuable consideration' need NOT have taken place. (i.e. - a deposit would not have to made). Since you arranged the financing and have the 'ability to pay' the 'agreed upon' price - you probably have sufficient 'cause' to win a lawsuit forcing the sale, but is it worth it? = I doubt it. It might be worth having an attorney write a letter threatening a suit, the dealer might fold - It wouldn't be worth it to the dealer either. Expect to get gouged on any service you might need that dealer to perform for you. Good Luck.

If you DO sue - get the case in front a Judge who likes fishing, LOL

[TwentyFourSeven]

They can do what ever they want unless you are willing to go to court and spend your hard earned money and your precious time.

[steveyacht]

All this about a 17 foot boat?

[59022]

walden75 - 3/31/2007 7:06 AM


So after all this, he says he doesn't want to sell the boat to our agreed upon price, and says "I'll let ya have it at wholesale" which is ridiculous. I tell him I think that's bad business practice, and that I'm prepared to buy the boat on our agreed upon price regardless of carpet repair/warranty. And he says he'll think about it this weekend and let ME know!!

So does he have a legal obligation to sell me that boat based on the price on the bill of sale THEY wrote, or can they renig on the deal, and expect me to pay more? Which I wouldn't do (pay more).

Any thoughts....sorry for the long read. But thanks for any ideas.

Bill of sale is when money changes hands. Did that happen?

If no money changed hands-there's no sale.

Would you still buy it from this dealer? How about the carpet. The mfgr probably won't back the warranty, because when it left the factory it was in perfect condition. What happened at the dealership since the boat arrived?

[walden75]

steveyacht - 4/1/2007 9:26 AM

All this about a 17 foot boat?

Yep......

ShellbackCVA59 - 4/1/2007 6:36 AM

Although you probably meant no harm contacting the manufacturer, I can see the dealer having the thoughts the above poster made. Pretty much a natural reaction when you are selling at a loss, that you sure don't want to deal with any problems after the sale.

Youre right on with that comment....I Honestly, wasnt trying to go over this guys head...only wanted to do alittle bit of my own checking up on stuff. After thinking about yesterday, Im gonna call the dealer back Monday afternoon, tell them sorry for any inconcvienance from the call. And that if he wants to sell the boat to me AS-IS (carpet), I'll take it at our Agreed Upon Price of $3500. Now I will expect all the other systems on the boat to work (lights, pumps, trailer, fuel tank, etc) and be under thier factory warranty, but that should be expected.

If he'll stay professional about it, so will I. Im not trying to screw this guy over, not gonna be doing in sueing or litigation etc, it aint worth it, espcially since Im leaving next monday to catch a new ship on the West Coast. Hopefully, all will work out fine and his temper will have eased up, just as mine

CYA's

[ShellbackCVA59]

I hope thinks work out for you, the $1700 sure would be a nice savings. He probably had his panties in a bunch, and like you said, maybe he'll be over it Monday.

[fichtion]

My Turn - 3/31/2007 12:16 PM

why would you want to do business with this guy now? if you are going to need and warranty service after he has your money how do you think you will be treated? Thank him for alerting you to what an a-hole he is, go find a good business to deal with. Life is too short.

I agree. Eff him and I hope that he chokes on that boat for another 2.5 years.

[walden75]

Well, called the dealer this afternoon, we came to an understanding that niether one of us was trying to screw over the other.....and decided to proceed. No harm done kinda deal, and as of this friday I'll be the proud owner of a "new" 2004 Tracker Super Guide V-16 DLX T for $3,500. Throwing on my 2004 Merc 40HP 2 stroke off the duck boat and we'll be hitting the water this weekend for a test run!!! No its not a big CC or fancy boat, its just a simple, well laid out boat to fish the rivers and striper lakes in SC & GA, (if Im lucky the occasional redfish trip!!! if Im lucky)

We (actually my dad), will be re-doing the carpet for a meager $80, after that it'll be adding some rod holders, MinnKota Power Drive, and a FishFinder. Last but not least we'll be re-doing the livewell to make it into a Oval Bait Tank for BlueBack Herring to stay alive during the summer.....I'll be asking about folks for tank suggestions later!!

Thanks for the good info, guess I made it out to be more than it really was. Glad everything worked out.

CYA

[Tireless]

Congrats and enjoy the new ride walden.

[ABoater]

Great job sticking with the deal.

Sounds like a win-win for both parties.

Enjoy!

[ShellbackCVA59]

Glad everything worked out for you. Enjoy your new boat!

[War Horse]

It is nice to see things worked out. Good for you!