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Awful trip, Florida fishing guides you could do it so much better.
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Awful trip, Florida fishing guides you could do it so much better.
Four of us just returned from a fishing trip in the Upper Florida Keys. We left more than $6,000 to the local economy and none of us are happy about it.
I have always fished with the same guide out of World Wide Sportsman until this trip (I'm not mentioning names) and have been happy with him. Once I was able to get our trip dates worked out this particular guide didn't have the dates open so I started searching for other guides. I checked out the websites and picked a guide and told him we needed him to arrange for another guide since there was 4 of us coming down to fish. Our preferred fish was Tarpon but we knew it was a little early in the season but we at least wanted to fish for Tarpon part of the day.
Three weeks before the trip I contacted the guide to make sure he had made arrangements with another guide, he hadn't done so. He said he wasn't sure what we wanted to do, I told him I was perfectly clear that there was 4 of us and we needed him to get another guide set up. I told him I would start looking for another guide, after 25 phone calls I found guide#2 that had both days open. I gave both guides each other's website, phone numbers, and e-mail addresses and asked them to get together and let us know where and when we were to meet them Wednesday morning. Both guides said no problem and asked me to call when we got to Key Largo (which was where guide #1 told us to stay) on Tuesday. We arrived in Key Largo and I called both guides and was shocked to find out that one guide was fishing 2 hours North in the Everglades Park, the other guide was fishing 25 minutes South out of Founders Park and we only had one vehicle. I don't think they ever even bothered to talk to each other.
Wednesday morning two of the guys head for a two hour drive North to meet up with guide#1 while we took a taxi to Founders Park to meet guide#2, a $40 cab ride one way. We asked the cab driver where we could get a boxed lunch and he acted like we were talking in another language, no box lunch.
The guys that headed to the Everglades with guide#1 ended up fishing but never fished for Tarpon. Our guide spent 1 1/2 hours trying to catch Pinfish for bait, even though he had Pinfish in the livewell. We ended up driving the boat for 25+ miles, fished for a few hours, moved a couple of times, caught almost nothing, and NEVER even tried fishing for Tarpon. We also NEVER used ANY of the Pinfish that were in the livewell. When I finally asked when we were going to fish for Tarpon I was told there weren't any where we were fishing...then why the he$$ were we fishing there! Then we ran out of shrimp and he said well it's 4:00 anyway so lets just call it a day. I guess he didn't think we could tell time because it was only 3:00 but we were both fed up and just wanted the day to end.
At the end of the first day the four of us got together and tried to salvage the second day of fishing. Since guide #1 could only fish 2 in his boat and wasn't able to find another guide he was no longer an option. We called and explained the situation and he was very understanding which we appreciated. Two weeks before our scheduled trip guide#2 said he could only fish one day because he had to go to Miami for business and he pushed us off on another guide. I called this guide which we will call guide#3 and asked if he could take all 4 of us Tarpon fishing.
Guide#3 agreed to take all 4 of us but the cost went from $500 to $725. Even though we felt like we were being taken advantage of what choice did we have, we wanted to fish. Guide#3 told us to meet at the marina at Snake Creek at 8:00, he said the marina had breakfast and could make us box lunches. We got to the marina, no breakfast, and no box lunches so we head further into Islamorada to get some breakfast and box lunches. We get back to the marina at 8:20 to find guide#3 just arriving. We wait for 45 minutes while he gets ice, checks his bait and puts everything away. It's now almost 9:00 and we haven't even left the dock. Finally we head out
only to spend the next hour or more trying to get MORE bait. He already had a bunch of Pilchards and Mullet but I guess he needed more.
It's now 10:00 and we haven't even got a line in the water. This is when he called us together to give us our boat lessons on what to do if we hook up. He proceded to actually show us where to sit and how we were supposed to sit in case we got a fish...we hadn't even gotten a line in the water yet. We fish the bridge between Islamorada and Marathon using 2 rods for a couple of hours. I asked why we couldn't all have a bait in the water and was told we were lucky to have 2 because he usually fishes with one. We hook up with a couple of Barracuda and land one, no other bites.
He could tell we were getting bored so asked if we wanted to fish for shark. I was up for anything since I personally had already spent over $1,200 and hadn't caught anything larger than a bluegill. We cut up the Barracuda for chum and fished for about 20 minutes for shark with 2 rods when I bring to guide#3 attention that there is a bad storm moving our way. He said no problem we will head east when it gets closer to get away from it, I'm thinking there is no possible way we are going to get away from it. It got really ugly with lightening all around us and he finally decides to make a run for it. We hit the storm front about 5 minutes later running at 35MPH with no protection. The rain felt like pellets from a pellet gun and we kept running until 4:15 we finally got through the storm and guide#3 says that it's almost 4:30 and it wouldn't do any good to try fishing for anything else.
These guys should be ashamed of themselves. I realize that this is their job but they seem to have forgotten that people like me spend my hard earned money to make a trip like this. I had been looking forward to this trip for months, after two days of fishing my biggest catch was a 8 ounce ladyfish. Guide#1 turned out to be the best of the 3 but why did he tell us to stay in Key Largo only to have 2 of the guys have to drive for 2 hours into the Everglades? Guide#2 made no attempt to make things convienent for us and never even offered to take us back to Key Largo yet was obviously surprised he didn't get a tip. The kicker was when we seen guide#2 on the road pulling his boat when we were on the way to the marina on Snake Creek to meet guide#3, so much for his business he had to do in Miami.
You guys could do it so much better, if it would have cost $50 more to have purchased bait -vs- having to spend so long to net it we would have gladly paid. Why is it such a secret how long a full day charter is? And if us, the customer, are unable to fish for a couple of hours because of weather, why can't you stay out a little longer?
None of the guides could even recommend a hotel or resort to call, one guide faxed me an unreadable page out of the local phone book. How about offering to pick up lunches for your guests, even if you pay $5 and charge $10? I live in OHIO how am I supposed to find a place to get a lunch? How about offering drinks for a fee so we don't have to do it? One guide complained that it was hard to make money, the guy we charter for salmon in Michigan has an agreement with a local hotel and gets a little kickback from them when we stay there. Breakfast is included in the package, along with a box lunch, he makes a little money on both. He charges $8 for a 6 pack of beer, $5 for a 6 pack of pop, he makes money on this too and we are happy to pay so we don't have to screw with it.
If any of the guides we fished with read this, I'm not sorry. You got paid in full, in fact you get paid in full no matter what. I know that no promises come with fishing but I also understand the more time you fish and the more lines you have in the water the better the chances. I don't need a half hour lecture on what I'm supposed to do IF we catch a fish when we haven't even gotten the lines in yet. Being told HOW we are supposed to sit isn't just stupid, it's insulting.
My next trip I will tell the guide what I expect. If I'm paying for a full day of fishing I'm not going to pay for 25% of the time getting bait. I want to know the time we are supposed to start fishing and when we are going to stop, does this include running time or fishing time. We paid guide#2 $725 to fish for maybe a total of 3 hours actual fishing time, less than 7 hours of actual water time. That equates to more than $100 an hour of water time and $241 an hour fishing time.
Do the guides just have so much business that they have lost sight of how to satisfy the customer? Is every trip just another day? If your looking for a tip, then make an effort to earn the tip. I've paid guides 30-40% tips if they work hard, don't watch the clock, and go out of their way to make the trip a success even if the fishing sucks. And here is a thought...if you expect a tip for a good day, how about a partial refund for a bad day?
RE: Awful trip, Florida fishing guides you could do it so much better.
Welcome to Florida!!
Next time you come down post on the Florida/ Georgia forum here and ask for advice on guides.
Heck, I'll take you on my boat if we split expenses. I've done this for more than a few THT members and it's always been a pleasant experience.
Location: On My 340B SeaVee With Very Big Verados!
Posts: 5,139
RE: Awful trip, Florida fishing guides you could do it so much better.
Next time, try to find some illegal hispanic guides, you'll get a more reliable and competent service and appreciation for your business,and they'd probably stay out all day until the smiles were on your faces.
Re: Awful trip, Florida fishing guides you could do it so much better.
I'm so sorry to hear about your experiences, which were very descriptively depicted. I have not gone with any guides in the Keys, but have gone with guides in other parts of Florida and annually in Alaska. Your experiences - as there were at least 3 guides that mistreated you - are unique from my experience.
Did you pay by credit card? If so, I think you should consider a partial chargeback. Personally, I wouldn't have the cajones to ask for a 100% refund, but a partial refund would be appropriate IMHO.
And, if you wanna catch grouper in the Gulf, PM me and you can join me. I'll show you true Florida hospitality. (But, beware, I hope you're not thinskinned because I'll be wearing one of my 25 Gators National Champions shirts...)
Re: Awful trip, Florida fishing guides you could do it so much better.
Endoman- Split expenses, I'll gladly pay ALL the expenses. I did ask for guide recommendations but everyone that I called was booked. It's pretty hard to try to find a guide less than 3 weeks before a trip, this was guide#1 responsibility but he didn't do it.
Snapper Head- I may reconsider mentioning names and I'll gladly tell any THT member that is looking for a guide who NOT to call. There is a reason why I'm not going to mention names right now.
I guess no harm in telling who the guide is that I have fished with many times and have always been happy, Chris Barron-Stray Cat Charters out of World Wide Sportsman. Even though I don't like the bait routine in the morning he has never been a clock watcher and he has always fished longer if I've asked him. Especially if finding bait is tough and takes longer than it should. He also gave us information on where to get breakfast and get our box lunches in the morning which was helpful. He mentioned Holiday Isle to stay which we have a couple of times but the Tiki Bar gives me a headache when I have to get up in the morning...those of you that have been there know about the Rum Runners!
Re: Awful trip, Florida fishing guides you could do it so much better.
I have heard these stories and I do symphasize with you. We had a trip with one of the Delph boys one time. You could tell he knew his stuff, but he did not care about us that day. Of course, part of the problem was he messed up and forgot about his dad being inducted into IGFA Hall of Fame that same day. Even distracted he did ok. The funniest part was riding back in on the virgin voyage of his 34' Yellowfin. Those boats just glide over the shallows at 57mph. One flats fisherman gave us the international gesture of thanks when we raced past his forwardcast. I just kept my head down while my partner rolled in laughter. I think he was still late. Anyway we were supposed to do one thing ( Dry Tortuga w/ fly rods ) as we asked and confirmed via phone, but instead bottom fished for grouper & AJ's. It still turned out ok for the memories, but it was the last time I did not plainly explain to the guide about my intentions before leaving ground.
In your case, based on the above reading I think you did all you could. There are a bunch of great guides for tarpon in the Keys ( Bruce Chard, for example ) but, they are usually booked a year in advance. I don't think you can change the system. What would benefit other guys like us is knowing who the guides were so that we will not get stuck with them. I would consider it to be constructive information for fellow fisherman rather than guide bashing. There will always be bad guides just like there are bad mechanics, attorneys or doctors. But, atleast your experience can save some of us from the same. Think of it as sacrificing yourself for others.
RE: Awful trip, Florida fishing guides you could do it so much better.
Thanks, as a local for a long time there are plenty of " newbie" guides as well as some others who are not
good. It's to easy to buy a flats boat and call yourself a guide. Where you fished most of the good guides are
on rebooks from the year before and hard to get. You are not exactly in prime tarpon time but its doable.
I learned long ago that fishing is part of the experience. It may be the main part but I owe it to my people
to make the whole experience fun. Go to the guys at the Yellow bait house for some names or maybe come down towards
marathon or big pine. A little more mellow down here. As long as the folks are reasonable and courteous there is
no reason not to treat them with respect. Even if you don't limit out we should give you every effort to do so.
Please come back and do name the guides.
Re: Awful trip, Florida fishing guides you could do it so much better.
Addon: At the very least you should tell Worldwide Sportsman about what happened to you. I think they would appreciate it. I would have to assume they do not know about the guides in question.
Re: Awful trip, Florida fishing guides you could do it so much better.
that sucks... those guys shouldn't even be allowed to guide. if you come to the tampa area next time, i know of a few who will give you the complete opposite of what you had down there. the last guide i went with for a 4-hour trip gave us 4 hours of FISHING, lines in the water. he didn't count getting there and already had two full livewells of bait when he picked us up...
that's just wrong.
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Re: Awful trip, Florida fishing guides you could do it so much better.
Dusky- Is that sarcasm? If so, why would you make such a comment? I didn't say anything negative about Florida, in fact we had great meals and other than the fishing was a very enjoyable time. It would be a dream to be able to live in the Keys, I envy those of you that are so lucky.
None of the 3 guides were from World Wide Sportsman. One guide was a newbie but we didn't know that before hand, he turned out to be the best of the three. The other two have been at it a long time, perhaps a little to long.
RE: Awful trip, Florida fishing guides you could do it so much better.
I had a similar experience on a Clearwater boat 10+ years ago, my brother in law paid for the trip since our boat could only take 4 total, he wanted to take 7 total, so he rented a charter boat. The captain was nasty, and the mate was not much better. Why these people were in the service industry was beyond me. We sat on a hole for an hour and I finally found a good bite well away from the boat by casting baits on my TLD rod. After finding a spot I started yanking in keeper grouper, I hit 7 until the captain came down from the tower and bitched me out for "leading the fish away from the boat!". We caught nothing after that. Go figure. The whole tone of the trip was way off after that.
Re: Awful trip, Florida fishing guides you could do it so much better.
RussH, you know someone on THT could be booked with those same guides this very minute. Would not your consience bother you if knowing what you know now was not used to save the fishing of fellow THT'ers that may be guided in the future.
Re: Awful trip, Florida fishing guides you could do it so much better.
You know who complains about crappy guides the most? Other guides.They don't like it either.They horn in on their business, don't know what they are doing,and give the others a bad name.Same goes for my business as well as most others.
It just proves my point of getting refrences and double checking that you are getting someone good. I know in your case you were limited on time,but I bet It wont happen to you again.I'd be pizzed off too after looking forward to a big trip like that and spending your hard earned money.
My first two guided trips was a 8 grouper trip,caught no grouper,and a 8 hour redfish/sea trout trip.Caught 1 redfish. My thought was I could have done this on my own. Oh well,live and learn.
Awful trip, Florida fishing guides you could do it so much better. 
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Oh well,live and learn. 
