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My father and I bought a 1985 21' Mako a couple of years ago. It is a beautiful, classic Mako that is in great shape. It came with a rebuilt 1988 Johnson 225. I'll save several paragraphs here about mechanics and their shortcomings but the engine is dead and my mechanic refuses to fix it again. We overpayed for this boat to begin with ($17,500) with trailer, electronics etc.. I don't know what the boat is worth without an engine but I don't want to unload it. I would prefer to repower with something smaller and more fuel efficient. My friend has a 140 on his 22' 70's era Mako and he says that he has even water skied behind it.
What should I do? Can I get away with a smaller 4-stroke? At what point do I cut my losses?
IMHO, no, you can't get away with less HP. The older Makos were heavy boats and you will not save any money by going to less HP. In fact one of the biggest myths about boating is that less HP will save fuel; way wrong. Hang the largest EFI or DFI engine you can and THEN you will save gas.
Smaller HP engines in general will have to turn higher RPM's and run 'harder' to achieve the same cruise speed; higher HP engines just work less b/c they aren't huffing and puffing to move that hull.
And if cutting your losses is part of the plan, sell the boat and get another hobby, ours is an expensive habit and there is no way around it! [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]
scottr.
scotts dead on. In addition, since you brought up the "investment" portion of this deal, trying to sell any underpowered boat in the future will be Very Very tough. The new owner will factor in a repower and your "investment" will diminish.
Also, since that little 4-stroke you put on the back will be working at higher rpms than it should, the wear and tear will be significant. Trouble down the road. Think of the wear on your 4 cylinder toyota if you tried to tow that thing... same theory. IT will move, but parts will start to break sooner or later.
I think that 140 is maybe a little low but you do not need as much power as everyone down here syas. I'm originally from the North Shore have moved/been dent to FL for a couple of years. There are very different schools of thought for what is reasonable power between new wengland boats and what most people see in FL. Generally boats down here have 50% more juice than comparabel boats in that I see in MA.
Going with a engine in the 175HP range would give you increased fuel economy and while saving some fuel. Good luck with her.
Do not compare a '70's Mako 21 with an '80's. In the 70's Makos were flat bottom at the stern. Hard riding, but you could get away with smaller engines (after all, 150 HP was the biggest you could get in '75). In '85, you probably have the Mako 211, which is a 19 degree deadrise and a "banana" boat, which means the hull slopes down from the stern towards the front. These hulls are harder to plane, and anything less than 175HP would be greatly underpowering it. For resale, I would not go below 200. As far as the comparison from MA to FL, we use our boats alot more, which justifies the expense of powering them properly. An underpowered boat will sit in the boattrader for months without a bite.
jimmy,
just went to the mako web site and found only 1 21' boat for 1985. it weighs 2100 lbs and holds 86 gallons of fuel and the max horsepower rating is 235. anyway, i just bought a new 21' hydra sports that weighs about 2600 lbs and holds 85 gallons of fuel.
i ran this boat with a 150 carb yamaha and a aluminum prop that turned 5200 rpms and it ran 41-42 mph. the boat i ordered has a 150 EFI yamaha and a stainless prop which turned 5500 rpms and it ran 45-46 mph. so, i would assume you could get away with a 150 since your boat is lighter than mine, but it depends how fast you want to go. good luck.
My bud has a 81 21' and it had a 140 Johnson, what a dog! He repowered with a 185 Johnson in 84 and I still think it is a dog but it will hit about 40. Comparably a new 175 might do the trick but I would do a 200 or 225 IMHO. You can buy a nice late 90's for about $5k installed.
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Regards, Nick
17' BW Montauk
24' Baja
Thanks for the input so far. Couple of things - I hope I didn't give anyone the impression that I had "invested" in this boat. I have been bitten hard by the boating bug and even though I have a beautiful new boat I would like to hold onto the Mako for my fathers sake and because I have irrational feelings for the boat.
John - The Mako I have is a very hard riding boat. At around 3500RPM's it takes the seas well. Above that and all hell breaks loose. I don't want or need any more speed than what I can handle as a passenger. Knowing this, does it make a difference with regards to engine size?
If the hull and boat are in good shape and you want to continue to boat and fish re-powering this hull could be a great long term deal. There are a lot of older Makos and Duskys running around with new engines.
Heck, if you look at some of the Boat-Traders you can find used motors in the back pagers......pick out a not so old 200hp and have a mech. go through it and you might save a few bucks.
IMHO, a solid old boat with a modern motor is a great package for less than an additional $15k and will offerer many years of use.
But if you tired of boating and fishing any price is to much
The 21' Mako in 1985 was called the 21B, that is what I have. I currently have a 200 hp Yamaha on the boat. Wide open at 5300 RPM I get about 42 mph. The hull is very heavy. The boat is very hard to plane with the 200hp. It does not jump out of the hole by any means. I would not recommend anything less than 200hp, and when I repower it will be a 225hp motor. I have a friend that has a 1984 Mako 21 and he has a Merc 225, he runs about 8-10 mph faster than me, his boat catapults out of the hole, and gets much better fuel economy also. I would keep that boat by all means and get a new motor. The hull is tough as nails and rides great too.
Most of these replies on on target. My cousin has a 1985 20 foot with a 150. The 150 does fine on this boat, however, the 21 is several hundred pounds heavier and has a v hull that goes all the way to the stern instead of almost flattening out to about 8 degrees with the 20 footer. Thus, the 21 will take more engine to get up and stay up. I think the 175 might, might, might, get you there but why underpower yourself the start, you will always look back and say if I only went up to the 200. While if you get the 200 you can always throttle back.
The above post are right on! If the boat is in good shape than re power. My 69 ROBALO is on the 6th pair and I wouldn't even think of not repowering. Working at the factory and doing the testing I can say for sure the largest HP you can go is the best all around. You will save lot of fuel and ware and tear on the motor in the long run. The most important thing is propping it out and make sure the motor is properly installed, not just hung on the back of the transom. I like to rig mine with the cavatation plate 1/4 inch above the bottom. This my opion only and would tell you to follow the manufactures guideline. As far as 4 strokes I would opt to go with twins on mine as 4 of the 6 pairs. have been twins. Everyone has there own 2 cents and this is mine.
Keep her rigged and ready
Sammy Joe
Yamaha 225 four stroke would be best!
Yamaha 200 EFI or HPDI would be my second choice.
Just do not over power or you will not get insurance! Go by the plate that should read 230HP which would be twin 115HP Yamaha of coarse!
Not to disparrage Mako madness, for he is usually right, but DON'T DO WHAT HE SAYS. The Mako 21 with a notched transom is very weight sensitive. The weight of twin 115 4 strokes will certainly creat a boat that swamps easily. The 225 four stroke would probably be too heavy also. My old 21 had a 225 Yamaha, and with the baitwell full, I had swamping problems. The batteries were in the back, and in hind site I should have moved them to the console. 200 HPDI would be a good choice, although I sure wish they made a 225 and 250 HPDI.
John,
I was wating to hear an opinion about the 4 stroke 225's on the Mako 21. I have been romancing the idea for a few months now, and the only thing holding me back is the weight. The 4 stroke 225's are about 125 lbs heavier than the 225 efi's. That is huge in the Mako 21. With my 200 yamahoppie and 3 guys in the boat we alwys get our feet wet in the back of the boat. My batts are in the console but it doesn't make much difference when the well is full! Any other opinions are welcome.
It looks like the consensus is at least a 200. Yamaha is probably the prefered choice for this board. Why HPDI and not Saltwater series? How much can I expect to pay brand new installed? Any other thoughts about flowscans, gauges, throttle choices etc. would be appreciated.
I have one battery on this boat located in a well at the transom. Should I get a second battery and put them both in the console?
I don't want to rehash the great engine debate but are the Optimax's fixed. The local dealer seems to have them back in stock. What would I pay for a 200 Opti?
One final question - My last engine smoked like crazy. I know new outboards will smoke alot less but which engines smoke the least? I see and smell alot of these new engines and I can't believe that they still emit as much pollution as they do.
Thanks for the input - I love the instant feedback!
The HPDI is just more advanced than the EFI, and gets better mileage. If you do not take long trips offshore, then I would probably opt for the EFI. The fuel savings on the HPDI takes a very long time to offset the additional cost of the motor, unless you are a high hour user (200-250 hours/year). Also, while the HPDI's have been very good motors, the EFI's are battle tested for years and are basically bulletproof. I have a 225 EFI and it is a great motor. The deals on leftover EFI's should be pretty good. Don't go with the Optimax, they cost just about as much as the HPDI and the jury is still waaay out on them.
As far as batteries, I am very surprised the boat did not come rigged for dual batteries. Yes, you need two batteries, and get the big ones (I think they are called D cells?) While you are at it, move the batteries to the console, it is a much better place for that weight.
The DFI motors smoke ALOT less than the EFI or carbed motors, but they cost alot more.
man you put a NEW 225 hpdi or opti and you are looking at about $11-13k installed. Better think real hard on a new motor because you or your father will be married to this boat for a L-O-N-G time. If on the fence, start looking at some used or rebuilt engines in the $4-6k range installed.
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Regards, Nick
17' BW Montauk
24' Baja
If the boat is in good shape why not repowering with a new $12,000.00 investment. Have you priced a new 21' offshore fishing rig? When you buy a used or rebuilt motor you never know, with a new motor you have a warrantee. I would defiantly go with the 2 batteries under the console and go with hydraulic steering. While your at it go with new electronics . Gages would be TAC, fuel, water presure, volt meters (for each battery) . When I rig a boat I rig 1 battery for starting and one for electronics with a battery switch just make sure they (you) run a good ground on the batteries. Another thought would be to redo all the wiring with marine grade tin coated wire. A small investment but when your done you basically have a new rig and saved thousands. Just keep in mind when you start a project like this it's going to be a labor of love. You never did say if you were going to do any of the work or hire it all out. If you do it yourself let me know I can give you a lot of tips. I have done this on my boat along with 4 other friends boats (all but 1 was a 69 ROBALO). Just have your fishing buddies help you, Keep plenty of cold beer on Ice, good BBQ on the grill and you should have no problems with help I didn't LOL
Keep her rigged and ready
Sammy Joe
21' Mako - What do I do with it? 
