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This is my first post here at The Hull Truth, and to start off, I'd like to commend you on a great community and the wealth of knowledge you have amassed here. After many years in the 18-26' class, I am ready to step up to a larger battlewagon that will get me to the canyons and other outlying areas. Originally, I had been a fan of the Topaz line, the 39 Royale especially, and to a lesser extent, Express fisherman in general. I had scoffed at convertibles, seeing them as boats that sold out their fishing lineage to appeal to the cruising population out there. My main concerns, or wants, were:
1) a Great fishing platform that I can work with and outfit as I see (dream).
2) Seaworthy and well Built
3) Amenities for an overnight at the canyon for 4-6, some comfort at the dock as well.
I had seen the Maine Coasters years ago, and had admired the fishing room, but never spent time on one, and it fell to the back of my mind until recently, when a broker approached me with the opportunity to purchase either a 2000 38' Conv. or a 2002 38' El Bravo. Putting aside hours and price, I am struggling with the hardcore fisher or the convertible. I have dissected it by equipment, amenities, you name it. Now I'm just looking for the consensus I guess. Im sea Trialing both in the next few weeks, but until then, the floor is yours!
Well you can't go wrong with either and I too am a big fan of the Henriques.......(see my signature).....Same hull on both so ride will be very similar. The FB is heavier and the center of gravity is higher so the ride will be slightly different. The FB has three times the cabin space so if you want or need more "inside" space than that is a no-brainer. The express puts the captain and crew right in the middle of the action. If you go out with just 1 or 2 guests, you will greatly appreciate the express. If you and your crew or family plan on weekending on the boat the FB will be the way to go......After owning two FB boats in a row, this time I opted for the express with a tower. For me it is the best of both worlds. I have plenty of viability in the tower (if desired) once we start trolling, and when 4 rods go off at once, it is easy for me to grab one and join the fight. Personally I would take the El Bravo....................
I have fished on a 91' 38 ft El Bravo on many occasions. Very functional layout and like bri said the capt is right in the action with the crew. We have done overnight trips to the canyon with up to 5 people and there is plenty of room to sleep with alternating watches, besides who needs sleep when the action heats up anyway. I would take the El Bravo if given the choice. Have fun sea trialing.
by different ride, are you referring to more of a roll? how is your ride from the tower of your 28??
I would not use the word "roll" only because Henriques build one of the most stable platforms out there. There boats are true modified "V" designs that flatten out to like 18 degrees or so in the back so you will never get a roll or whip snap effect. I mate on a 35 Bertram both inshore and off and that boat eats up a head sea but yes, we roll while drifting...... Now before I get attacked, I am not saying the Henriques is better than the Bert and I am not saying the Bert is bad or lacking in any way at all, I am just trying to say that the Henriques is a flatter bottom boat and it will be more stable on the drift than deep "V" boats. Now I have only been out on an El Bravo 3 times and a FB twice, not in the same day and in different sea conditions. The simple fact that the center of gravity will be lower on the express than the FB will make it ride better.................So to answer your question, YES it will have less roll......
Now for my boat, I spend about 2% of my time in the tower. Its is nice to go up there on the ride out for a short time but you get "wind blown" pretty quickly. Once we start trolling or sharking I go right up to observe the slick or lure pattern. Once I see what is going on I head back down. I might go back up every hour or so if the fishing is slow just to see what is happening. The only other time it gets used is on Sunday afternoons when we do the "lagoon cruise" with the family.......As long as it isn't more than 3-4 footers out there it is very comfortable in the tower.
I must sound like a Henriques whore by now, but you absolutely must visit their factory in NJ before you buy. Wether it is new or used you will see and learn plenty from the guys at the factory. A large amount of charter guys in our are have Henriques as their platform and most are either 38s or 44s.........One last thing, Manny and the others at the factory are quick to point out that most people that buy the 38, 44 or new 42 are previous Henriques customers moving up from their smaller models. To me that speaks volumes. You will be hard pressed to find a negative comment about the boats or the builders on the web..........
I went through the same decision making process 3 years ago in the same size range, but I was mostly concentrating on the 38 Blackfins. They did the same thing, had an express and a convertible on the same hull. At the time I had a 32 Blackfin express and wasn't even considering convertibles, I was looking primarily at 35-38 express boats for my next move up. I spent probably a year deciding between the layouts and in the end bought the convertible and have been very happy with the choice. I do some cruising trips during the summer, so my usage of the boat may be different than yours, but some of the same points that went into the decision making process may apply.
The main reasons for moving up was that I was starting to do week-long trips during the summer to Montauk/Block/Newport, etc and with more than 2 people 32' was starting to feel cramped. I also wanted more cockpit space for canyon trips and offshore in general. At first I wanted to stick to the express and keep the helm near the cockpit, not have to go up to the bridge, ect. Eventually though several points made me decide on the convertible -
- The 38 express had basically the same layout as my 32 express. It still had bed forward, dinette that converts to a bed, galley and head. That meant if I had guests overnight (my sister and her husband often join us), the main cabin becomes a sleeping area, every day you're converting back and forth to the dinette, there's really no place to keep their gear/bedding/etc out of the way during the day. With the convertible there's a big bed forward, separate room with bunks and big storage closet, and then the salon with sofa, chair, galley. If I'm on a fishing trip with the guys to Montauk between the bunks and sofa 3 extra guys can sleep comfortably without having to share the converted dinette or sleep outside.
- Tower vs flybridge. On my 32 I found myself up in the tower most days while trolling. While visibility was great, tower ladders aren't the easiest things to get up and down, there's absolutely no protection from the wind, and on most boats electronics are very limited on the tower. So to me the 'captain is where the action is' theory isn't all that valid because if I'm drift fishing for sharks or anchored up for the night in the canyon I'm in the cockpit with either setup. If I'm trolling I'm probably going to be in the tower anyway, and it's a lot easier to get up and down the flybridge ladder than get down from the tower if I need to get to the cockpit. Once you approach 40' the helm on an express is actually a long way from the cockpit anyway (unless you have a setup like the Out Island). From the flybridge while trolling I can easily turn around and talk to the guys in the cockpit with no problems.
- Helm visibility. I never did sea trial the express Blackfin, but I didn't think the helm visibility was going to be that great on the express that big, especially in rough seas with the bow going up and down. I did sea trial a 38 Out Island express and while running back in a following sea I often could not see the water ahead of me at all when the bow rose up. From the flybridge visibility is so good that you see buoys and debris in the water much further ahead of time and it makes for a more relaxing ride. I also don't like that most express boats now have tall windshields you can't see over, which will fog up when running early morning or at night. I can always open up my canvas and see with no problems. It's also pretty rare that spray reaches my flybridge enclosure so that helps with visibility also.
- Sound levels. On the express you're standing right over the engines and the sound levels are generally pretty high. On the flybridge you're more isolated and it's a quieter ride generally (obviously some boats will be better than others in this regard).
- If you're away for a few days on the boat and stuck at the dock because of weather for a day or two, having the added cabin space makes for a much more enjoyable time. Same goes for trips to the beach by us where the mosquitos come out to bite you around sunset.
As far as downsides -
- You do feel motion more being up high, so on real rough days you will get banged around more at a flybridge helm then you would on the same size express. In general a flybridge would roll more than an express from the weight up high, but for me my 38 flybridge is actually a lot more stable than my 32 express was, so not an issue at all.
- If you have young kids or older people aboard they may have a hard time going up and down to the flybridge while running. With an express it's easier for people to get around to and from the helm.
- If you do a lot of inshore drift fishing where you need to move constantly, going up and down to the helm could get old. Generally if I'm fishing inshore I anchor up or am in areas where I can take long drifts (or fish on a friend's boat) so I don't find it to be an issue.
I'm sure there are more points I'll come up with later, and feel free to ask any questions. At this point I spend about 30 nights a year on the boat during the season, so the much better accomodations on the convertible was a big difference for me. Besides that I really like the visibility from the flybridge and think I would have a hard time going back to an express. However if I drift fished a lot inshore and didn't care about the cabin space it would have been a tough decision and I may have stuck with an express.
Very nicely put JJC......Lots of good points........you are certainly correct about the visibility thing......I noticed it immediately going from the FB to the express, luckily the 28 has a lower glass windshield so I just open up the canvas when needed, I have got a face full of water once though............
Like you said Jude.......take them both out a few times if you could and try to bring some of your "crew" with you if possible. They will notice and point out different things than the "captain" will see.................
My boat is only half the boat you are looking at, but I had my heart set on "new" this time and that is all the budget would allow. If all goes according to plan.......I will have either the 35 or 38 in about 5 years...................................
Most of the points have been hit. I have a 35' Henriques Express and it fits our style of fishing. Can go with just 2 or even up to 6 and not a problem. I do feel like i've been more a part of the action at the end of the day as opposed to when i had a flybridge. its nice to not feel like the 'driver' all day. We make a 50nm run each way and its 'fun' telling the crew someone has to stay up top with you while everyone else is in the A/C sleeping. But for staying aboard with more than 2 folks its the flybridge all the way. And as previous poster -- i've got nothing but good things to say about henriques, and if ever were to get another boat -- would be another henriques. tom
Not much more to say about the differences between the flybridge and express styles. I have the 38' El Bravo express in question. I will reiterate that if you are only going to be fishing with 2 or 3 total fisherman most of the time, then the express is the way to go. I fish often at the NJ canyons with a 2-3 man crew and it would be nearly impossible to do so with a flybridge...especially in the situation of a multiple hook up! A couple words about the henriques 38 express. You wanted a great fishing platform, well look no further. I don't think there is any boat in its class that comes close to the cockpit size of the 38 Henriques. It is 140 square feet! You can get lost out there if you're not careful. All kidding aside, this is a fishing machine. It weighs a ton, or 14 tons to be exact and can take on big seas without a problem. Its a very thick hulled boat, so that should provide a little more ease of mind on long night trips (should you happen to run into something). If creature comforts are your thing, then this might not be the boat for you. That being said, the cabin will very comfortably sleep 3. I personally have no need beyond the simple creature comforts that it provides, i.e. sink, bathroom/small shower combo, stove, microwave, tv, small refrigerator, dining table/ bed, and one larger bed. Another thing to note about the boat is the amount of storage space. Basically any place that could be utilized for storage is. Not to mention the pair of giant fish boxes in the cockpit. Make no mistake about it, this is a hard core fishermans boat. While not luxorious, it provides all the comforts that a MAN could ask for. My recommendation is to go over to integrity marine and talk to Andy about them. He's a really nice guy and would be happy to sit down and talk to you. Also, as someone else recommended, you should really go to the factory and see how they make their boats...it's well worth the trip. If you have any more questions on performance #'s or anything else, don't be afraid to ask.
Heres a nice write up about the El Bravo, its a little dated but still accurate.
Your certainly in a great position chooseing either boat is an excellent choice, The family run company is great haveing near where you fish and they are super nice people. In the 38 as long as no one has bad knees climbing up and down the bridge as in our situation, we are moveing to an express from a FB since my Pop is getting older and the climbing up and down gets to him. He's our wheel man when fighting bigfish and I want him to enjoy our boat for as long as possible so we're going back to the Express. If your a big offshore troller and are really into Billfish the FB is an excellent choice, it allows you to read the water better and keep a close eye on your trolling spread. There are alot of days you won't want tobe up in the tower todo this and it just isn't as comfortable as in the Bridge. As stated the cabin space difference isn't even close, so if your spending several nights on the boat at a time, the FB is the best choice. If it isn't used so much for liveing quarters as we do, then the Express is nice, especially if you find yourself shorthanded some trips. I like everyone being able to interact in the Express, The FB I beleive is quite a bit more money and hiolds it's value better then the Express. If you were thinking 35 then it would be Express all the way, but I would think the FB in the 38 would be a great choice for you. Good luck with whatever you buy they are both great boats.
If you do go with an Express. Do yourself a favor and take a good look at the older 37 and 39 Topaz. After everything is said and done it's hard to beat that much boat for the money. Merry Christmas All.
Henriques Convertible vs. Express?? 
