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Well, I try to search and snoop around before posting, but not much information I've found.
Does anyone have any experience with the larger Trojan International series boats from the mid-late 80's? Specifically 40/43/46 footers? How well are these boats really built. What exactly makes these Trojan-Bertram boats? If anyone has some personal experience with these boats or can point me towards a forum maybe more geared for the bigger diesel sportfish boats, let me know.
Pascoe did a report on the 10 meter. www.yachtsurvey.com The only connection and I mean the only connection between Bertram and Trojan is they both owned by the same parent company. By putting the -Bertram they hoped to trade on the Bertram name. No cross-polliantion what-so-ever.
Good boats have been on a few a 12 and 14 meter both convertabes (fily brige ) heavy boats ride well . . what makes these trojan-bertram is not the B.S that bertram built the hull for Trojan . but that it was at a time when Trojan was owned by bertram . they are a well made boats as well made as a reg Bertram IMO not the same boat as the F boats (like mine )
Pascoe seems to have a rather favorable impression of the quality of workmanship in general, which is reassuring, but his reviews were based on boats 10-11 years old. Now the boats are in the 18-20 range.
I found an absolute steal on a 1988 Diesel 40' Flybridge, and I'm not the least bit scared or concerned about cosmetic work. But what should I be looking for structurally. It has the J&T 6-71 TI's with about 450 original hours, and I believe they are the 450 HP models. Anything in particular to look out for on these engines? Does anyone know of anything structural (blisters, decks, water intrusion, etc...) that these International Series models may be prone to?
Obviously I'm dealing with a whole different ball game then a 26-30 twin outboard boat, but for the deal that I can get it's hard not to at least look into it. I'm guessing with the 450's this boat should cruise in the low-mid 20's and not be terribly underpowered. It has a hardtop, but no outriggers or tower. If anyone is really interested the boat is in NJ and far and away the most affordable on the market, and it's hard to find a diesel 40' ANYTHING for the price. I'd just like to know what I need to be looking for on an 18 year old boat with low hours as opposed to a 3-4 year old boat with high hours.
Oh, I know I need to find a surveyor; don't think you can get insurance in NJ without having the boat surveyed. What should a diesel surveyor be looking for in particular. What are some terms I need to familiarize myself with? The boat is on Yachtworld but I don't know how to post pictures over here for you guys to see.
You need to spend some good money to make sure the motors do not have problems. The diesel machanic looks a lots of things. My report on my Cats was 12 pages. 671's were pushed all the way to 485HP. At that HP they seem to have a rebuilt at arount 1500 hours. 671's are easy to rebuild and the engines can stay in the boat unless you need to do the bottom. Then if you can't drop the oil pans the motor has to come out. Jest line up the best surveyors money can buy.
My impression is that these were very well made boats for that time (much better than a standard Trojan). They were heavy and strong, and rode well. I looked at some back in the 1990 timeframe although I was never on one underway. I don't recall hearing about any blistering back then. I haven't kept track of them the past 10+ years so my information is dated, but from what I recall they were desirable boats that are worth looking into.
If the one you are considering is not priced around the price of an Egg Harbor of similar vintage (which I don't think was a good a boat, although they are nice), and somewhat higher than boats such as the standard Trojan, Luhrs or Silverton, then there must be something else wrong - see if it is something fundamental or perhaps it is just cosmetics (maybe the entire cabin requires updating).
I visited the factory in 1990 when I purchased their last 8.6 meter International. The workforce was composed of local craftsman, and I do not use that word loosely, from the Lancaster, PA area. There was no overlap with Bertram at any level. The company was called Betram-Trojan because both were owned by the Whittaker Corporation, a large holding group that divested both Bertram and Trojan in late 1991 when the luxury tax and recession hit a lot of boat builders, and both companies folded their tents.
__________________ Carpe Diem
01 Tiara 2900 Coronet
I took a quick look at her online and she looks a little rough. I saw tattered and dirty carpeting, leaking port holes, and old electronics. This vessel does not appear to have been treated well. That said, she may be worth it if the hull and mechanicals are sound. You can use your budget for a complete cosmetic makeover.
Thanks for all the input. I know the boat is a bit worn and the owner just wants it gone. Like I said, cosmetics don't scare me much, carpet is cheap and cleaning is just elbow grease and my own time. I'm just very interested that it's such a roomy, good all around boat with diesels that costs less than most 37' Egg Harbors with gas engines. Less than pretty much anything in the range.
My father used to have an 86 Egg and it was a very nice boat, but way underpowered with gas engines, and those boats require too much maintenance for my taste. Any Egg Harbor I'd want I can't afford, any Egg Harbor I could afford I wouldn't want. Heck, even a 40' late 80's Silverton with gassers is about the same money. And those boats are DATED, and not anything I'd really be interested in.
I realize it's no Hatteras, or Viking; but for what it is what do you guys think? A full electronics upgrade wouldn't be terribly expensive, save for new radar. And the boat doesn't have a windlass which I think is silly on a 40' boat.
JrodNJ are you clase to the boat? If it is at Lighting Jacks I am about 10 minutes away. I would not mind taking a look at her for you. I have not done much work on 671's but they are easy to work on. I have been boating for many years and have developed an eye for problems. In fact tomorrow I start a replacing a couple of headgaskets a 3208 Cat. I just got a set of manuals and the job looks pretty easy. You just have to remove lots of stuff to get to the headgasket.
The 3208 Cats were pumped to 450HP but anything from 425HP on are hand grenades. The 3208 Cats are realible up to about 375HP anything over that is short lived. The 671's were pumped up to 485HP. They don't last long at that HP. The difference is the 671 can often be rebilt in the boat. The Cat has to come out and go to the boring shop. For this boat I would perfer the DD's. I just don't think they will last more then 2000 hours before you are putting new liners and pistons into her(top end). I think the cost is around $310-$350 per hole cost. To that you are going to add labor. I have friends in the business so I get the labor at the right price. The 671 is 426CI and the 3208 Cat is 636CI. The Cat weighs in at about 2000 pounds and the 671 goes around 3000 pounds or more. I don' tremember the exact number. These engines are big chunks of cast iron and can be hot rodded; but at the expence of hours between rebuilds.
The 3208 Cats were pumped to 450HP but anything from 425HP on are hand grenades. The 3208 Cats are realible up to about 375HP anything over that is short lived. The 671's were pumped up to 485HP. They don't last long at that HP. The difference is the 671 can often be rebilt in the boat. The Cat has to come out and go to the boring shop. For this boat I would perfer the DD's. I just don't think they will last more then 2000 hours before you are putting new liners and pistons into her(top end). I think the cost is around $310-$350 per hole cost. To that you are going to add labor. I have friends in the business so I get the labor at the right price. The 671 is 426CI and the 3208 Cat is 636CI. The Cat weighs in at about 2000 pounds and the 671 goes around 3000 pounds or more. I don' tremember the exact number. These engines are big chunks of cast iron and can be hot rodded; but at the expence of hours between rebuilds.
Dam CB we are on the same page here . I many add even if the engines only last 2000 hours thats alot of years for most boaters 100 hrs a year= 20 years I put on a lot more but many people don't
Paul
prowler I hate to keep busting your balls; but if you only run your boat 100 hours you should get out of boating. I think guys who run Bertrams probably put more hours on thier boat the guys who run Trojans. I am sure you have stay tied to dock lots of time while the Bertrams guys are out fishing! A trip to the edge... 4 hours to get there... 4-6 hours of trolling.. then shut down and go on the chunk.... 3 hours of tolling in the AM... 4 hours back to the barn. Offshore trip 16 hours. How about a day troll? Leave at 12midnight run and troll all day and back to the dock at 5PM...17 hours. A day striper fishing . Leave at 6Am and troll all day; back at the dock at 4PM...10 hours. Throw in a couple of shark trips, flounder trips, summer trips to AC and the Vinyard. Put the boat in in March for winter flounder and put her to bed just before Christmas. Sounds like 300-400 hours a year for a fishing boat. When I was younger I would put 500 hours a year on my boat. You need to sell the Trojan and get a real boat that is not a dock queen.
CB youR busting my ball becuse you cant read !!!! I said I PUT A LOT ON MORE ON !! YOUR A JERK SOME TIMES
YOU TELL MW MY CUMMINS ARE POS YET ARE YOU PUTTING A HEAD GASKIT ON A 3208 ???? YOURS I ASUME KNOW PROPLEM ON THAT OUTDATED MOTOR ! my trojan is out evey week end and its not put up in dec like yours . we have 3 bertrams at our marina 2 are dock queens . the other may get a hunderd hours use . 4 trojans 1 is a dock queen
My trojan is a real boat yes the bertram is better of shore but mine still gets the job done
I will be out this weekend have fun with the 3208 head gaskits ! I try to be nice but sometimes I can't
Hey numbnuts! Boats aren't dock queens. Owners are. And you are a snob of the worst kind, CB. You get the Fontengulator Award.
Brett
Trojan 10M
if your calling me numbnuts becuse i call a some boats dock Queens . I was using our budys CB name . it is the owners the make a boat a dock queen
any way I dont know what I have done to CB other than not agree with him all the time
even when I agree he still trys to start some thing . he brings out the very worst in me
I never put down his boat or engines untill he put down mine . with the wrong facts I may add . I guess he thinks he knows all . has the best there is . and ever one else has a not real boat with pos engines . oh well
Trojan International Series - Any Experience? 
