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Old 09-18-2006, 06:26 AM
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Default Hard starting Honda 50

I have a new Honda 50 (2006). The motor runs great... but it takes a long time to cold start... It cranks a total of about 15 seconds when cold. When it is warm you never hear the starter... it cranks instantly. My dealer said it was the choke "setting itself and that was normal". What do you think? Does this sound "normal". The motor only has 35 hours on it.
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Old 09-18-2006, 09:45 AM
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Default Re: Hard starting Honda 50

That doesn't sound right but I don't know the particular workings of the autostart enrichment. Honda touts that as providing instant starts however so its an issue I wouldn't let your dealer give you the brush-off on.
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Old 09-18-2006, 10:12 AM
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Default Re: Hard starting Honda 50

I had a honda 90 and it was hard to start. 90 hp and down are carbed,not fuel injected. i talked to a dealer about it. you just have to choke the s*** out of them. I would even take my throttle out of gear and give it some gas for easier starts.
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Old 09-18-2006, 05:02 PM
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Default Re: Hard starting Honda 50

Contend21 has it right, a little gas and choke helps the 50 start a lot faster. I also have a 75, it always needs to be choked first time in the morning. Once they warm up, they normally restart without any problem.
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Old 09-18-2006, 06:22 PM
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Default Re: Hard starting Honda 50

my honda 50 starts about hte same- 10-15 seconds when cold. sounds normal
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Old 09-18-2006, 08:57 PM
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Default Re: Hard starting Honda 50

Don't the newer ones like strat's have a special cold start device (fuel enrichment) to overcome that starting problem?
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Old 09-18-2006, 10:37 PM
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Default Re: Hard starting Honda 50

My Honda 75 needs a good choking when cold and also needs to hit a high RPM for a seconds to keep it runnings. Honda says that is normal. Mine runs fine although it does not seem as quiet at idle as some of the newer 4 strokes, some of which are practically silent. Is that because of the carbs or could there be other reasons?
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Old 09-19-2006, 02:30 AM
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Default RE: Hard starting Honda 50

To start the 50, make sure that you pump the primer bulb first. You might also want to crack the throttle up a little. Opening the throttle will cause the auto-enrichment device to be by-passed, but this may be what you need. When I had a BF30 on my 13' Whaler, I could never get it to start cold when I used the choke, but give it a little gas with no choke, it always started right away.

You really have to gas it if you want a 75/90 to start right up when it's cold. Lots of people complain that the 75/90's are hard to start, and are amazed when I can fire'em up right away right before their eyes. The trick: choke'em AND don't be shy with use of the throttle (give it 1/3 to 1/2 throttle, again, I said don't be shy with the throttle). As soon as the engine fires, back off the gas in a hurry, and release the choke. Leave the throttle at a high idle for 20 or 30 seconds to allow it to warm up a little.

For all of you that said that your BF90's were hard to start, try this and post back with the results.
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Old 09-19-2006, 09:14 AM
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Default Re: Hard starting Honda 50

Honda Dude,

That is exactly how I start my Honda 2000 90 and it works like a charm. Kinda bugs my marine mechanic friend though
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Old 09-19-2006, 12:31 PM
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Default RE: Hard starting Honda 50

Sounds like a bad effort on Honda's part to try and keep up with the competition when they are selling an antiquated design. You see the competition, Yamaha, Suzuki and Mercury have FUEL INJECTED 4 strokes in this HP range. Honda still has carbs! In order to have "turn key" starts like the competition and not have to pull an old fashioned choke knob Honda's engineering experts came up with the enrichment device. Now you don't have to worry with a choke you just have the 15 second cranking exercise when the engine is cold.

Everyone's expert advice on how to start their carbed Hondas is pretty funny. Gosh the competition has fuel injection and you just turn the key. For a Honda just advance the throttle half way, pull it back, choke it for 3 seconds turn the key for 2 seconds then wink at the motor twice then kiss it on the top of the cowling turn the key for 5 more seconds then it fires immediately!

Honda should have had fuel injection on this engine and the 75/90 years ago. Carbs are hardly what you expect from a company that considers itself to be a leader in engineering.

Also you might want to learn how to clean those carbs. You'll know when you get a rough idle below 2000 rpm. Those engines are notorious for fouled up carbs and yours will get gummed up also. They have extremely tiny orifices in the carbs. Yes, I have had one for ten years. Great running little motor but far from perfect.

By the way, Honda Dude you were going to check with your Honda dealer rep about lower unit corrosion with these engines. Why didn't you ever post what the Honda rep said like you promised?



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Old 09-19-2006, 02:33 PM
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Default RE: Hard starting Honda 50

Quote:
jwss - 9/19/2006 5:31 AM

Honda should have had fuel injection on this engine and the 75/90 years ago. Carbs are hardly what you expect from a company that considers itself to be a leader in engineering.
Honda just announced the introduction of their all new EFI, VTEC BF90 and BF75.
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Old 09-19-2006, 09:07 PM
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Default RE: Hard starting Honda 50

Quote:
jwss - 9/19/2006 11:31 AM

Sounds like a bad effort on Honda's part to try and keep up with the competition when they are selling an antiquated design. You see the competition, Yamaha, Suzuki and Mercury have FUEL INJECTED 4 strokes in this HP range. Honda still has carbs! In order to have "turn key" starts like the competition and not have to pull an old fashioned choke knob Honda's engineering experts came up with the enrichment device. Now you don't have to worry with a choke you just have the 15 second cranking exercise when the engine is cold.
Unlike most manufacturers, Honda doesn't release products until they get the bugs worked out. I'd rather wait until they get it right before they sell it to me. Often times the race to be first yields less that desirable results.

Honda was the first to sell four stroke outboard motors in the US and the first to offer variable valve timing. I wouldn't call them antiquated. They've been redesigning the outboard lineup for a few years now starting with the larger motors. All it takes is for them to hastily design a few dud motors (larger Yamaha HPDI) and their reputation for quality products could be trashed. People don't buy Honda for performance and outstanding looks. The only reason I buy Honda is reliability.
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Old 09-19-2006, 09:45 PM
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Default RE: Hard starting Honda 50

Hullslap, did that fine Honda engineering and getting it right before the consumer gets it include 15 seconds of cranking on a cold motor? Sounds like they didn't get the "bugs" out of that auto enrichment no choke needed before they started selling it.

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Old 09-19-2006, 09:57 PM
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Default RE: Hard starting Honda 50

Quote:
jwss - 9/19/2006 8:45 PM

Hullslap, did that fine Honda engineering and getting it right before the consumer gets it include 15 seconds of cranking on a cold motor? Sounds like they didn't get the "bugs" out of that auto enrichment no choke needed before they started selling it.
It starts and runs doesn't it!

Did they promise instant starts in the advertising or manual?

I never said Honda was perfect, but they are known for releasing products that are relatively problem free.
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Old 09-20-2006, 03:38 AM
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Default RE: Hard starting Honda 50

Quote:
jwss - 9/19/2006 8:31 AM

Honda should have had fuel injection on this engine and the 75/90 years ago. Carbs are hardly what you expect from a company that considers itself to be a leader in engineering.
Let's get the story straight: Honda was the first to introduce a 90 hp four stroke engine way back when ... ~10 years ago and several years ahead of their competition. They were way ahead of their time and competition. The competition played catch up and yes, did eventually introduce fuel injected engines.

With Honda's new fuel injected 90, with VTEC and a bunch of other high tech goodies, they have created a second generation, state-of-the-art 90 while the competition is again in the role of playing catchup. Maybe you should read about the new engine: 12 pounds lighter than the old 90, 10% smaller in size, 20% more fuel efficient, 35 amp alternator, and the list goes on.

One thing I've noticed about Honda, and it's that Honda does not make a lot of little tweaks to their engines or be quick to rush a new product to market. When they make a change, it's well thought out and designed/built right the first time. I'm not bad mouthing the competition, just stating a little fact here: ever notice how many Yamaha/Evinrude/Suzuki/Mercury/Suzuki posts there are describing a quirky little engine problem? Now do a search on Honda and see how many of those posts you see. I rest my case.

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Old 09-20-2006, 08:39 AM
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Default Re: Hard starting Honda 50

Eric,
Could you tell me the weight of the 90. I am on my second 50 on one of our boats and was thinking about twin 90 on my ROBALO. I have 90 yamies now but the weight scares me.
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Old 09-20-2006, 10:41 AM
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Default Re: Hard starting Honda 50

The spec's say 166kg (365lbs) with propeller. I heard someone else say dry weight without prop is 359lbs. That would make it about 10lbs lighter than a Yamaha 90, but in my books, 10 lbs (or 20 for twins) isn't that great a difference so if the Yamaha's weight scares you, so should the Honda's.

About the only mid-sized four stroke that you can use as twins is a Honda 50. At 205 lbs/engine, it is much lighter than everyone else's 50, including the Etec (I think Yamaha has the next lightest 50hp engine at 237 lbs). IMHO, you would be better off with a single 150 (~480 lbs) or a single 225 (580lbs) than twin 90's. Just my opinion.
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Old 09-20-2006, 06:04 PM
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Default Re: Hard starting Honda 50

Thanks Honda Dude,
This will be her 7 th repower. I just don't want to do anything untill this gas (enthonal) bs is figured out. I do have a fiberglass tank with exploshion proof foam baffeling (like a air plane) so it is scarry to think it might ruin it and have to replace it with alum.
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Old 09-20-2006, 06:47 PM
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Default RE: Hard starting Honda 50

Honda dude you must not have been around when the v6 Hondas came out and had shifting problems. Neighbor of my had two and in no time at all they turned into Yamaha 225 4 strokes. Ask him about his opinion on Honda releasing nothing that isn't right and totally tested. He wasn't happy with Honda.

Oh, I forgot you're a Honda dealer aren't you. Always good for business to bad mouth the compeition a little eh?
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Old 09-20-2006, 08:38 PM
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Default RE: Hard starting Honda 50

Quote:
jwss - 9/20/2006 5:47 PM

Honda dude you must not have been around when the v6 Hondas came out and had shifting problems. Neighbor of my had two and in no time at all they turned into Yamaha 225 4 strokes. Ask him about his opinion on Honda releasing nothing that isn't right and totally tested. He wasn't happy with Honda.

Oh, I forgot you're a Honda dealer aren't you. Always good for business to bad mouth the compeition a little eh?
Pretty obvious you don't like Honda products. Okay, you've made your point. We get it already. You think Honda engineering sucks. Get over it and move on. Buy something else.

I'm guessing one of the following apply.
You had a very bad experience with a Honda product and you want to condemn all Honda products for the rest of eternity.
You've never owned a Honda in your life but you hate "Jap" motors.
You've never owned a Honda in your life but you to feel better about your Yamaha, Evinrude, Suzuki, or Mercury when you trash talk Honda.
You sell a different line of outboards and think taking shots at Honda will somehow increase your sales.

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