The Boating Forum - BLOWN POWER HEAD YAMAHA 250 HPDI

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View Full Version : BLOWN POWER HEAD YAMAHA 250 HPDI


www.gbsf.net
05-23-2005, 05:27 PM
I have a 250 HPDI 2005 that was purchased new in august of 04. I blew a power head on March 4 with 84 hours on the motor. I blew another power head on May 8!!!!! I am interested in some feed back on others experience with the HPDI motor reliability. I follow the manual by the book & took great care breaking in this motor & I have still been off the water for 45 of the last 81 days! :mad:


Think Tweiss
05-23-2005, 05:48 PM
That sucks.....

Yamaha is completely blowing the reputation they earned with the OX66's and the 200 HPDI/225 4 Stroke. These new HPDI's just don't make the mark. Reality is that over time, the leadership moves from company to company. The Verado may actually move buyers who value reliability to Mercury, and certainly Evenrude is in their fighting hard with what's now a very solid entry as well. Honda and Suzuki are, unfortunately, pretty much not in the market due to a lack of dealerships.

Somehow Yamaha is just missing the message...the finance people are reading today's sales figures and don't much care about tomorrow. Reality is that they better start to focus on next year's sales. This year earns them the reputation that converts to sales next year. Their picture is not as rosy as their books.....

ubettcha13
05-23-2005, 06:53 PM
Did they say what caused it the first time or this time


gb
05-23-2005, 07:34 PM
Had a friend who blew 2 powerheads (maybe 3, can't remember) on the same engine in the first 100 hours or so. Eventually Yamaha made good on it. I can't remember the details, but it sounds like the factory eventually replaced it with a powerhead and everything that is attached to it and dropped it into the cowling with all new extended warranties. In the end he was frustrated with the situation but seemed happy with the service he got from Yamaha. I would hassle them nonstop....start saying things like "new motor" over and over again. I feel sorry for you.....I know it must be killing you.

james morton
05-23-2005, 08:23 PM
Yamaha is starting to blow powerheads at the rate of Mercury, or almost anyway.

T-Craft
05-23-2005, 09:35 PM
there are tons of Z-250's with lots of hrs on them with zero issues, what cyclinder was effected? what was read from the Y.D.S download? is this a single engine or twins?

kingmac
05-23-2005, 09:58 PM
My 200 hpdi blew just after the 2 year warranty ran out because of a bad oil pump.Also had problems with tilt/trim and high pressure fuel pump pully coming loose and spinning off shaft.Yamaha replaced the power head ( $6000 ) even after the warranty had expired but I paid the labor $1012.00.

www.gbsf.net
05-23-2005, 10:21 PM
Everything looked good & they dont know what happened the first time around. Both times it was the upper cylinders. Fortunatley, I had a Yamaha mechanic call me this evening. He will drive to Houston to personally repair & invistigate my motor tomorrow. Hopefully he will find the root cause. I also had the balancer pully come loose in-between blown powerheads.

Tsunami
05-24-2005, 07:54 AM
So lets get this straight, you blew a powerhead and your dealer repaired it for free. After a short time you blew another powerhead. In response, Yamaha is sending someone to Houston to investigate the problem and make the necassary repairs. Man, that is horrible customer service :roll

No where is it written that powerheads won't blow up. Every company that makes outboards, particularly 2 strokes, blow a few up.

Kirk

Jetpowered
05-24-2005, 08:11 AM
We have been very happy with ours. Sounds like Yamaha took care of the problem, what more could you want? Remember, like Kirk says "stuff can happen", but as long as they make it right in a timely fashion you really can't complain. It doesn't matter if it's Yamaha, Mercury, or whoever, if they stand behind their products, they are worth doing business with. I have owned both Mercury and Yamaha, and have been satisfied with both.

onemooretoy
05-24-2005, 08:30 AM
I had a 04 Z-250 go at 184hrs the shop told me Yamaha is doing a new first start up different they think it is that first few moments when crank for the very first time that the damage is being done.
Some have no problems some do right away I ended up later then most. I can tell you my dealer
did a great job for me I took it to them on a Monday and if all the parts had of come in I would have had it back Friday same week but the reed cage came in on following Monday I got boat back on Tues.
I have about 40+hrs so far so good they also changed out all my filters and water pump at no charge to me.

iron banks
05-24-2005, 08:36 AM
Research threads on this topic. You will get bored reading about this subject. Yamaha has made some great engines over the last two decades but I doubt the 250 and 300 hpdi will ever make the list of great yamaha engines. The good news for you is that the regional tech should have plenty of experience repairing this model and he may be able to get it right for you.

www.gbsf.net
05-24-2005, 08:46 AM
When I first posted I had not received the call from the regional guy, but I was on hold with Yamaha customer service for 3.5 hours & no one ever answered. I bought new this time around to hopefully avoid issues like this especially this soon. My concern is the overall failure rate for this engine. I am concerned that if this is a wide spread & common failure that I will not be able to afford this motor once the warranty is expired. Thanks for all your post! When this thing works, it is a great motor! Since I use my boat weekly & have been off the water so much since march I am very disappointed with the quality to date.

onemooretoy
05-24-2005, 09:10 AM
I did ask the question on repeat failures he said after this new way of first start up he has not seen any replaced powerheads back at his shop or new motors for that matter maybe they did find what
might have been the problem only time will tell.

Tsunami
05-24-2005, 10:12 AM
What onemoretoy is refering too is bleeding the oil line so that the motor gets the proper amount of oil after the installation of the new powerhead. If the line is not bled, the motor does not get oil correctly the first time it is started after the rebuild. This was in a Tech bulletin sometime ago.

I think the 250's have a pretty good record the last few years. At one time they had compliants that rivaled the 300's today but those are pretty much gone now.

Kirk

onemooretoy
05-24-2005, 10:41 AM
No they now put oil in the power head with a pressurized type bug sprayer so the cylinders are oiled
and don't run dry for any amount of time not like before when it would take a few seconds for the oil pump to get oil pushed in. Not sure on the correct way this takes place put I know when they cranked mine up it smoked up the 6000sqft shop I guess there making sure its not started dry like they were
in the past.

honkers89
05-24-2005, 04:19 PM
I have a 04 250vmax hpdi and just had the second powerhead replaced. I should eventually run Yamaha out of powerheads at the rate I am going. My first one blew up at 44 hrs, the second one at 90hrs. I have to admit the response from Yamaha was very good on both failures. They ran the new powerhead after installation for 4 hrs at 2500 rpms on the computer to test it and everything came back good. I have had about 30 outboards in my lifetime and have had trouble with many, and some were fantastic. An outboard to me is just another machine that problems will happen to. My beef is the outrageous prices they charge for an outboard vs. a autombile engine.
You would think at these prices you should be able to turn the key and have smooth sailing like most vehicles. My only observation is that Yamaha sells many more 250/300 motors soI guess they are due to have the most problems.

fish factory
05-24-2005, 04:46 PM
Tsunami - 5/24/2005 8:54 AM

So lets get this straight, you blew a powerhead and your dealer repaired it for free. After a short time you blew another powerhead. In response, Yamaha is sending someone to Houston to investigate the problem and make the necassary repairs. Man, that is horrible customer service :roll
Kirk

Absolutely! The stones Yamaha must have!

They could have done the right thing, that is, filed bankruptcy, sold out to a french family, painted a big ole American flag on the motor cover, and re-introduced HPDI as the "new and improved"...

Y-TEC

:grin:

Brewhedd
05-25-2005, 08:11 AM
fish factory - 5/24/2005 5:46 PM

Tsunami - 5/24/2005 8:54 AM

So lets get this straight, you blew a powerhead and your dealer repaired it for free. After a short time you blew another powerhead. In response, Yamaha is sending someone to Houston to investigate the problem and make the necassary repairs. Man, that is horrible customer service :roll
Kirk

Absolutely! The stones Yamaha must have!

They could have done the right thing, that is, filed bankruptcy, sold out to a french family, painted a big ole American flag on the motor cover, and re-introduced HPDI as the "new and improved"...

Y-TEC

:grin:

Nice try defending Yamaha, heard that a lot lately. What I want is an engine built right to begin with so I don't need to find out they have "great customer service" while I lose months of boating time. Not to mention what happens after the warranty is over and another powerhead GRENADES. Evinrude, Mercury or anyone's past failures don't make Yamaha look any better and have nothing to do with their HPDI fiasco. Get real, Yamaha has totally dropped the ball on their large HPDI engines. The build quality and/or design just plain suck, and after the MANY horror stories I've heard, I sure wouldn't spend thousands on one.

Kingsransom_1999
05-25-2005, 08:42 AM
Just a comment for the guys with 300's. I was on a friends boat with trip 300's last week for a run to just check out some work done to the trim tabs, and we blew both the port and starboard motor at the same time. These motors have less than 25 hours on them. Yamaha is sending 2 new block assemblies, but not dressed powerheads. so far dealing with Yamaha through the dealer has been fine.

The problem I have is this. These motors are 2005 models that were delivered in February to the dealer on an ordered boat. Maybe mistakenly, but I thought that all of the 2005 models were suppose to have had the updates done to them? These motors had not been done, so as a result the new powerheads being sent will have to have updates done to them as well as the center motor. It seems crazy to me for Yamaha to not be sending out the power heads fully dressed with all of the updates done. I have seen the video of what has to be done for the updates and understand that there are some items that need to be done on the cowling and base pan. I just can't believe that Yamaha expects the dealer to have to do the updates on the new powerheads.

Tell me how you would handle the situation with the new powerheads? Would you try and contact Yamaha and start climbing the corporate ladder to try and get as updated powerheads as possible? the problem is we have the FLW tourny that we plan to leave for on June 4th an to do the updates and install the pwerheads will take about 60 hours.

What we thought would be a simple job of changing out two powerheads has blown up into a huge mess

theboatguy2
05-25-2005, 10:13 AM
I spoke to a Yamaha dealer about a leftover 04' he has on his lot with twin 300's on it this weekend. He really wants to sell the boat and I asked why anyone would buy a boat with engines that they know are defective. His answer was very direct, "When you call Mercury with a problem it gets adressed, Yamaha generally just denies the problem exist until they are forced to deal with it." He went on to say that if they could take the 300's off the boat they would but then they would be stuck with them. I implied that Yamaha should be willing to buy them back from the dealer since he can't sell them or the boat. He stated that the people they deal with at Yamaha still refuse to admit there is a problem with the engines. You can defend Yamaha all you want, they have dropped the ball on this whole issue and I hope it cost them thousands of customers. I am the happy owner of two flawless 200 hpdi's but that doesn't make what they have done with the 250/300
engines right. Good luck to those of you having problems, I sincerely hope they get you up and running and resolve your issues. My next boat won't have Yamaha's!

physicistkev
05-25-2005, 01:57 PM
blah blah blah.........

I have an 04 HPDI 250, had a problem, my local shop took care of it. Not my "FRIENDS" boat... my boat. Anything about a friend of my uncles, half-sisters, boyfriends, neighbors, dogs, veternarians son-in-law is crap. Not defending Yamaha, just sharing "MY" experience. I feel bad that some of us are having problems with motors. My experience has been very good and I have no plans getting rid of my Yammi or my boat due to fear. If my motor goes up, I will deal with it at that time. I feel that the relationship with my dealer is good enough to take care of any problem I may have.

nsh
05-25-2005, 02:05 PM
Its very unfortunate but they all blow. And i mean ALL. New or used. Its part of boating. All you can hope for is that they take care of you. And it looks like they will. Good Luck:thumbsup:




fish factory - 5/24/2005 4:46 PMTsunami - 5/24/2005 8:54 AMSo lets get this straight, you blew a powerhead and your dealer repaired it for free. After a short time you blew another powerhead. In response, Yamaha is sending someone to Houston to investigate the problem and make the necassary repairs. Man, that is horrible customer service :roll KirkAbsolutely! The stones Yamaha must have! They could have done the right thing, that is, filed bankruptcy, sold out to a french family, painted a big ole American flag on the motor cover, and re-introduced HPDI as the "new and improved"... Y-TEC :grin:


:trout::trout::trout::sleeping::sleeping::sleeping ::sleeping::sleeping::sleeping:

31CAT
05-25-2005, 05:51 PM
i GOT A BRAND NEW PAIR OF HPDI 300 (04'S) ON MY BOAT DIDN'T GO IN LAST YEAR, SO i GOT MY FINGERS CROSSED (AND MY 5 YEAR WARRANTIES READY) BUT IF AND WHEN I BLOW THEM UP, (IT WILL BE THE 7TH OUT BOARD, 18 YEARS OF BOATING, 3 IN ONE YEAR) I'M SURE THEY WILL GIVE ME A NEW POWER HEAD, IF THEY DO i SURE HOPE THEY BOTH BLOW UP AT ONCE!
YOU GET YOUR GOOD YEARS AND YOU GET YOUR BAD YEARS (EXPENCIVE, TIME OR MONEY?)OF BOATING. IF YOU DON'T WANT TO RISK BLOWING UP ENGINES , THEN GET A BLOW BOAT. i CAN'T WAIT TILL THEY COME OUT WITH 350 HP OUTBOARDS! ;)

looneytunes
05-26-2005, 12:29 PM
onemooretoy - 5/24/2005 10:41 AM

No they now put oil in the power head with a pressurized type bug sprayer so the cylinders are oiled
and don't run dry for any amount of time not like before when it would take a few seconds for the oil pump to get oil pushed in. Not sure on the correct way this takes place put I know when they cranked mine up it smoked up the 6000sqft shop I guess there making sure its not started dry like they were
in the past.

I am an I/O man. But something strikes me as funny here. Yamaha has managed to reduce the amount of power head failures by putting oil in the power head with the pressurized thinga ma jiggy.

What about people who have their engines winterized? I think it's the same principle, during winter storage gravity forces oil to go to the lowest part of the engine and leave the cylinders and heads dry. I have a hard time believing that using the pressurized thinga ma jiggy on the first start only will resolve the problem. OR do you now have to go to Yamaha to winterize and recommission the engine?

Just a question.

LooneyTunes
DAve

Brewhedd
05-26-2005, 09:47 PM
looneytunes - 5/26/2005 1:29 PM

onemooretoy - 5/24/2005 10:41 AM

No they now put oil in the power head with a pressurized type bug sprayer so the cylinders are oiled
and don't run dry for any amount of time not like before when it would take a few seconds for the oil pump to get oil pushed in. Not sure on the correct way this takes place put I know when they cranked mine up it smoked up the 6000sqft shop I guess there making sure its not started dry like they were
in the past.

I am an I/O man. But something strikes me as funny here. Yamaha has managed to reduce the amount of power head failures by putting oil in the power head with the pressurized thinga ma jiggy.

What about people who have their engines winterized? I think it's the same principle, during winter storage gravity forces oil to go to the lowest part of the engine and leave the cylinders and heads dry. I have a hard time believing that using the pressurized thinga ma jiggy on the first start only will resolve the problem. OR do you now have to go to Yamaha to winterize and recommission the engine?

Just a question.

LooneyTunes
DAve


Good point. First you need about 40 hours of labor for "updates".

Yamaha now recommends that before starting your hpdi outboard you follow this pre fire-up procedure:

1) Pull the plugs and pour approx. 1.5 oz of oil into each cylinder.
2) Tilt the motor up fully then down several times.
3) Put your mouth over the oil tank and blow several times.
4) Pull the cowling and bleed the oil lines.
5) Repeat # 3
6) Replace cowling
7) Repeat # 2
8) Slap the side of the cowling 3 times while standing on 1 foot.
9) Say a Prayer and fire it up.

evernic
05-27-2005, 09:41 AM
Brewhedd - 5/26/2005 9:47 PM

looneytunes - 5/26/2005 1:29 PM

onemooretoy - 5/24/2005 10:41 AM

No they now put oil in the power head with a pressurized type bug sprayer so the cylinders are oiled
and don't run dry for any amount of time not like before when it would take a few seconds for the oil pump to get oil pushed in. Not sure on the correct way this takes place put I know when they cranked mine up it smoked up the 6000sqft shop I guess there making sure its not started dry like they were
in the past.

I am an I/O man. But something strikes me as funny here. Yamaha has managed to reduce the amount of power head failures by putting oil in the power head with the pressurized thinga ma jiggy.

What about people who have their engines winterized? I think it's the same principle, during winter storage gravity forces oil to go to the lowest part of the engine and leave the cylinders and heads dry. I have a hard time believing that using the pressurized thinga ma jiggy on the first start only will resolve the problem. OR do you now have to go to Yamaha to winterize and recommission the engine?

Just a question.

LooneyTunes
DAve


Good point. First you need about 40 hours of labor for "updates".

Yamaha now recommends that before starting your hpdi outboard you follow this pre fire-up procedure:

1) Pull the plugs and pour approx. 1.5 oz of oil into each cylinder.
2) Tilt the motor up fully then down several times.
3) Put your mouth over the oil tank and blow several times.
4) Pull the cowling and bleed the oil lines.
5) Repeat # 3
6) Replace cowling
7) Repeat # 2
8) Slap the side of the cowling 3 times while standing on 1 foot.
9) Say a Prayer and fire it up.



brewhed you're a real riot,,great :thumbsup: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:



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