The Boating Forum - Why aren't there aftermarket parts to increase outboard horsepower?

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Dan in Alaska
03-27-2005, 01:48 AM
There is no shortage of aftermarket parts for your car, diesel truck, motorcycle, snowmobile, jetski, etc. Parts range from simple/inexpensive air cleaners, to complex/costly computer chips and turbochargers. Many of these add-ons increase horsepower without voiding the factory warantee.

There are all kinds of marine parts designed to increase performance, like hydrofoils and fancy props, but why doesn't anyone make aftermarket parts that actually increase horsepower in outboard motors? There would seem to be an obvious market for such devices. And, considering the fact that many horsepower ratings are achieved on identical engine blocks, I doubt these add-on parts would be overly difficult to design. What's the deal?


Glen E
03-27-2005, 02:01 AM
because they blow up enuf without us messing with them....

pooldoo73
03-27-2005, 02:05 AM
I don't think there is a whole lot more that can be bolted on to outboards to give them that extra go. They are already pushing the envelope with the design that comes stock. Things can be added to help a little. You have different exhaust tuners, low water pickups on the lower unit, different gearing in the foot, torque shift props, there is at least one set of heads for the 2.5 Merc's that did amazing things for the engines without any extra port work.*Any other things would be of the machine shop work on the block, which is going to greatly reduce the dependability and "life cyle" of the engine. They even make nitrous kits that are a bolt on addition that can really get the thing spinning, but how long do you think that will hold up on a fishing boat?


katkt
03-27-2005, 07:01 AM
gersly - 3/27/2005 1:01 AM

because they blow up enuf without us messing with them....



No personal experience(yet), but this seems like
a very good reason :grin:

Weekend-Hooker
03-27-2005, 07:13 AM
Maybe we can convince Superchips to come up with a Dyno program ;cool; ;cool;

First Light
03-27-2005, 07:15 AM
Ever remove the cover off of an outboard? Where you gonna put an aftermarket part?

You will soon see more "aftermarket" power enhancing add-ons from outboard manufacturers such as we have seen from Mercury on their Verado.

Ntrain2k
03-27-2005, 07:15 AM
Dan in Alaska - 3/27/2005 1:48 AM

There is no shortage of aftermarket parts for your car, diesel truck, motorcycle, snowmobile, jetski, etc. Parts range from simple/inexpensive air cleaners, to complex/costly computer chips and turbochargers. Many of these add-ons increase horsepower without voiding the factory warantee.

There are all kinds of marine parts designed to increase performance, like hydrofoils and fancy props, but why doesn't anyone make aftermarket parts that actually increase horsepower in outboard motors? There would seem to be an obvious market for such devices. And, considering the fact that many horsepower ratings are achieved on identical engine blocks, I doubt these add-on parts would be overly difficult to design. What's the deal?

It's pretty simple actually.

Liability.

If a car engine blows, chances are you can still get home.

If your boat engine blows while your out 40 miles you might have a little problem.

John_Madison CT
03-27-2005, 07:24 AM
I think Gersly hit the nail on the head. These OB's blow up enough.

ubettcha13
03-27-2005, 07:26 AM
We had 2 sets of 200 mercs ported and balanced The pistons and rods were lighten to within a gram on a rod balancing jig similar to what comp cams now sells is it worth it definitly those engines never loaded up touch the throttle and zing and the fuel burn didn't increase until you got a heavy hand they were on a 23' secraft only the boats with numbers would beat us in the ocean back then now the new direct inj. you have great response you have great fuel economy we cleaned the carbs every week pulled the plugs when we cleaned the carbs and bought alot more fuel But when you listened to those things idle you knew they were different . All this work was done by grandfather,father and uncle they built and raced modifieds before I was old enough to fish they just couldn't be satisfied with good enough I guess thats were I got it from

Doug in Bermuda
03-27-2005, 07:34 AM
Here is the argument I give to my 17 year old who likes to play backyard mechanic to squeeze extra hp out of his 2 stroke bike.

"What makes you think that you & your schoolyard friends know more about engines & how to make them better than the manufacturers who spend millions on R & D? Did you ever notice that high performance engines require constant maintenance & do not have the durability of a 'detuned' motor?"

He has not learned this lesson yet & he is paying for it dearly. Some day he will learn, don't fix what ain't broke.

Backfire
03-27-2005, 09:19 AM
You just need to know where to look for what is available. Try screamandfly.com best performance site on the web.
Backfire ;)

shep70057
03-27-2005, 02:37 PM
There are aftermarket parts for Mercury mostly.... that's about it.

sbmcruise
03-27-2005, 02:50 PM
Also much smaller market that for automobiles.

horseradish
03-27-2005, 04:03 PM
The result of "add-ons" is merc's VERADO. Pure and simply* hopped up by adding a blower and a stronger fuel injection pump. So what else is new?

Ntrain2k
03-27-2005, 06:55 PM
horseradish - 3/27/2005 4:03 PM

The result of "add-ons" is merc's VERADO. Pure and simply* hopped up by adding a blower and a stronger fuel injection pump. So what else is new?

Uhhh, the Verado is unlike any Mercury outboard there is. The power head is a completly new design from anything else that they have. It's a lot more than bolt on's. It's also been tested to signifigantly more power than they sell it at.

mronzo
03-27-2005, 10:07 PM
Ground effect lights, bullet mufflers and
bow thrusters that make the bow
jump up and down! Just like the kids
in their 4-6 cylider "muscle cars"!
Add a too loud sound system
blasting rap crap....

That's why!

theoldwizard
03-28-2005, 02:04 AM
Open your wallet real wide !

MAD EFI (http://www.madefi.com/main.htm)

Merc and OMC !

and forget any warranty !

blacklabmarine
03-29-2005, 05:01 AM
Doug,

He will definitely learn some lessons but I wouldn't discourage him. Some of my best times as a kid were spent messing with old two strokes - both street and dirt bikes. There are a lot worse ways for a young man to spend his time!

I still miss my Suzuki GT550 air-cooled, two-stroke street bike - That beautiful sound of winding that thing up...ring, ding, ding, ding, ding...riiiiinnnnggggg.

FASTFJR
03-29-2005, 06:59 AM
Added a Powercommander to my 04 Yamaha FJR1300. On dyno testing a went from 146hp at the wheel to 162hp. The small computer changes the fuel air mix. So far I've ridden the bike about 12,000 miles with out any problems. Many bikers do the same thing. If they can make it work for a bike engine, why not a boat engine. If your wondering it was $142.00, which included a custom map for the FJR and a USB cable to hook to my PC for any mods.

http://www.powercommander.com/

Just1more
03-29-2005, 08:49 AM
There are many "hop-ups" available for outboards. You just have to know where to look. Not nearly the same volume as auto industry, but they are there.

Jay Smith Racing, Brucato, and others have all kinds of bolt-on goodies available, from adjustable pcu's, ignitions, high perf. injectors, NOS, velocity stacks, exhaust kits and more.

Mist-Rest
03-29-2005, 08:56 AM
I did alot of work to my snowmobile engine that woke it up. I would never open up my outboard and do the same thing.

I did hear a bass boat one afternoon that no way was stock. Sounded like a two stroke Harley. So much for trying to hear anything :grin:

flats392
03-29-2005, 09:08 AM
gersly - 3/27/2005 2:01 AM

because they blow up enuf without us messing with them....


Nnnoooo, you are just used to having Merc's............... ;)

Got Salt?
03-29-2005, 09:16 AM
with all the solid state computer technology in todays engines (e-tec/verado), i thought about the same thing. what about a super chip or something like those performance programmers? and then i thought...not only would any major tweaking to a motor void any warranty, but wouldn't the hi performance stuff increase horsepower (of course it would, thats what we're talking about right?) and then you could have horsepower greater than the maximum mandated by the manufacturer of the hull and the coast guard (or whom ever puts that little plaqard on the boat)? is that illegal? ;? im sure it would void any warranty on the hull, anyway.

HEDJUG
03-29-2005, 09:46 AM
Try the forums on Hotboat.com. They have plenty of info on how to soup up just about anything, plus they always have some great pics of the madness on Lake Havasu. Bonus ;cool;

Also, try searching for a group on the Chesapeake. I see them on the N.E. River all of the time, and not one of the O.B.'s sounds stock. I don't remember the name of the group... but Yahoo would probably help.

Megabyte
03-29-2005, 10:07 AM
blacklabmarine said...
I still miss my Suzuki GT550 air-cooled, two-stroke street bike - That beautiful sound of winding that thing up...ring, ding, ding, ding, ding...riiiiinnnnggggg.

Oh man... were those the days, or what? :grin:

I owned a 'tweeked' R5C Yamaha that I road raced, and a 'tweeked' Honda 250 Elsinore that I flat-tracked... Nothing better than the sound of a screaming 2-stroke!

BTW - I had a buddy who owned an H1 Kawasaki (500cc triple) that probably had the sweetest sound of any screaming 2-stroke of the era. Awesome! :thumbsup:

blooney
03-29-2005, 10:26 AM
Also consider that a outboard or any boat engine is constantly operating at the top end of the RPM curve.

how often is a car or motorcycle engine operating at more than 40% of its rpm range?

The power output to weight ratio is already amazing for the reliability of this technology.

Personally I own a boat with an outboard motor to fish and have some fun with friends and family

There are many performance options for the big block engines in gofast boats.

FASTFJR
03-29-2005, 11:53 AM
blooney - 3/29/2005 10:26 AM

Also consider that a outboard or any boat engine is constantly operating at the top end of the RPM curve.

how often is a car or motorcycle engine operating at more than 40% of its rpm range?

The power output to weight ratio is already amazing for the reliability of this technology.

Personally I own a boat with an outboard motor to fish and have some fun with friends and family



There are many performance options for the big block engines in gofast boats. ;)

You mean riding my FJR 140MPH on 95 for an extended period of time is not allowed

KevinM
03-29-2005, 01:59 PM
There are aftermarket performance parts for 2 stokes, they consist of reed valve upgrades, piston upgrades, carb upgrade jet kits, injector upgrade kits, crankcase exhaust cover upgrades. As you can see it's not as easy as bolting on a catback, or an air intake system, or running a chip. Obviously there is just not a demand for it. If there was they would be more prevalent. Next you have these engines pretty much maxed out for the block size by the manufacturer, so the $$ per horsepower would be pretty high. as it relates to return.

vinny f
03-29-2005, 04:00 PM
just a guess but if your boat is rated for 250 hp and you went the max if you than increased your hp with after mkt parts what would that do for that little sticker on your transom as far as insurance claims also just what would it do to your transom ?

200%Dave
03-29-2005, 04:49 PM
Fellas', There's a whole bunch that goes into making a boat go fast other than what's bolted to the transom. I once knew a guy who was so frustrated that his new Ranger/200 hp rig wouldn't go no better than 65 MPH that he spent over $4000 on the problem. This thing was tune to the max with two electric fuel pumps, racing prop, ported and relieved block, fine tuned pistons and crank. You name it, it had it. Net-net, when he got done his Ranger would only go 67Mph !

Sea Wolf
03-30-2005, 06:53 AM
With the "track record" of some outboard manufacturers today, I would settle for an engine that would run!-------- Look at the Yamaha 300. They have "issues" right out of the box with "factory parts"! Now, you want to introduce "aftermarket parts" into the mix. Before we can go in that direction, we first need dependable outboard engines, like the units we had in the 50's and 60's. In those years, I never heard of anyone "blowing a power head" and we used those outboards for everything.

Just1more
03-30-2005, 07:21 AM
Dave,

You're right, to an extent. That Ranger obviously had serious hull issues on it's planing surface. A hook maybe? I was talking to BK @ OffShore Performance the other day while I was checking out this gorgeous bright yellow Donzi Classic. He told me that one of the hulls made it out of the factory, unbenounced to anybody,*with a "hook" on the bottom and no matter what they did to the motor, gears and prop, the boat would only do a max. of 68 mph. They finally discovered the hook, fixed it, and got the boat up to 82 mph, I believe it was. Hooks come from cooking the molds (making too many hulls, too fast). The heat generated by the epoxy warps the mold and sometimes it stays that way when it cools. Kind of like when your Mom said when you were little, "If you keep making that face, it'll stay like that!"

grin
03-30-2005, 08:41 AM
The reason is exactly what has already been stated. You don't want to mess with a fishing boats reliability. But there are many things you can do if you want to blow the neighbor away. I had a buddy with a Kawasaki H2 750 triple, 2 stroker that was ported etc and had a wicked set of expansion chambers. That motor sounded so radical it was addicting to keep it running. But it continually toasted pistons. I took a Yamaha RZ 350 engine and put a stroker crank in it and big bore kit and made it into a 510 and to top it off, I ran it on methanol. I still have one of the fryed pistons connected to a snapped connecting rod in my garage.
Simple things like raising the exaust port timing and changing the exhaust and porting and carb changes make huge differences on 2 strokers. Bolt ons are for people who think crome makes engines faster. That idea of just balancing and blueprinting a factory engine sounds like the right idea. But like he says, just doing that will make it sound different and give you away. Factory engines are not enineered to perfect specs and tinkering can find all sorts of extra performance. But just as easily the slightest slip or misadjustment can destroy everything. It depands who the guy who is doing the tuning is. And you can bet the guy who has the best running machine started out as a kid tinkering and learning the hard way(probably on a dirt bike, where parts are semi cheap).
I still want a dirt bike to tinker with and run the crap out of it, but the bones are saying "please, no more". Nothing better than a souped up 2 stroke engine, but nothing that is more likely to blow up either.

ben
03-30-2005, 08:46 AM
Do You know if a E25BR Evinrude (the 499cc) can be increased in power???

thank you

ben

blacklabmarine
03-30-2005, 08:50 AM
Grin,

I'd forgotten about H2s - what a great - dangerous bike...I aslo wanted a Kenny Roberts RZ350 when I was 16 -*Dad thought that a Honda CB350T was better...yeeesh.

danick00
03-30-2005, 09:33 AM
Aren't there some EPA issues also? Like large fines for individuals and dealers found modifying post 2000 year outboard engines from stock configuration.

Hogger
03-30-2005, 01:31 PM
Good Afternoon....Bass and Walleye boate....will lead you to some engine mods....Note that is illegal to modify late model outboards...most of the new engins can be hot rodded with computer changes bout this not a very big market and suppliers are limited...Hogger

grin
03-30-2005, 01:41 PM
Yea! Like we are worried about the modification police! I guess the problem is you can't advertise modifications for sale, so that kind of really puts a dent in this areas expertise. For that matter, I guess your not allowed to soup up your car anymore either. Glad I was around in the semi heyday of this. It sure would suck to be a kid these days. All they are allowed to do is get a nice set of wheels and a nice stereo.

Dan in Alaska
03-30-2005, 03:13 PM
I hope I didn't stir up anything here. I certainly didn't intend to get people arguing over my silly question. My question was more a statement of surprise than a real question, I guess. It seems there are all kinds of gadgets for sale claiming to increase horsepower in a wide variety of engines. Some of these items work, some of them are nothing but hype, but there are TONS of them anyway.

I haven't seen a huge marketing campaign like this directed at outboard motors. I'm talking simple stuff, not $4000 worth of custom engine mods from a shop that specializes in racing boats. There are always people willing to pay for the extremes, and mechanics willing to offer their services. I'm referring to stuff people can do themselves. You see a few fuel additives and special oils and stuff like that for boats, but nothing to the extent you see for other "toys" like dirtbikes, ATV's, snowmobiles, and the like.

I am not thinking of the extreme modifications here. For example, Yamaha makes several horsepower offerings from the same engine block, like the F200 and F225. Can there be that much difference between models that an F200 can't be modified to SAFLEY and DEPENDABLY put out 225 horsepower? Yamaha already does it, but it costs you $800 to $1000. I can't imagine that a maket doesn't exist for someone to produce similar parts (but cheaper) that allows an F200 to put out an extra 25 HP without risking depenability or safety.

Another example is common here in Alaska. The famous Kenai River has a 35 HP restriction. Many people buy 50 HP outboards that are "detuned" to only produce 35 HP. When these people are not fishing in the Kenai River, the "detuning" parts can be removed and they get back the 15 HP they paid for. Why isn't there a gadget that you can use to turn your 35 into a 50?

FishinMcNut
03-30-2005, 03:29 PM
The leading Yamaha two stroke performance company in North America is Hydro Tec. They are also the Yamaha authorized reman powerhead supplier for the US.
http://www.yamaha-rebuild.com/highperformance.html

Just1more
03-31-2005, 02:27 PM
blacklabmarine - 3/30/2005 8:50 AM

Grin,

I'd forgotten about H2s - what a great - dangerous bike...I aslo wanted a Kenny Roberts RZ350 when I was 16 -*Dad thought that a Honda CB350T was better...yeeesh.



The RZ's were bad a$$. My brother had a 1977 Yamaha RD 400 Daytona Special that was, well simply WICKED fast!



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