Dockside Chat - Engineered Septic Systems

Anyone know much about these? I put an offer on a lot, contingent that it pass a perc test for a 3 or 4 bedroom home. It didn't. Now, I am renegotiating my offer since the last one can be voided if I want. The permitting folks tell me I need to apply for an engineered system, which I'm willing to do. However, to apply for this type, an engineer has to design it to the tune of about $4,000- just to get a yes or no. Since it didn't even pass the test for a 3 bedroom conventional system, I'm worried it still won't pass for this "fancy" one. Anyone ever do one? Everyone at DHEC and of course the engineer I might pay $4,000 to says it'll be fine. My fear is that if it didn't even pass for a 3 bedroom, is this engineered one really that superior? Think it will be approved for a 4 bedroom?

Thanks!

Engineered as in an additional 'bubbler tank' with air induction downstream from the main septic tank?

Our up north house has something designed by Delta Environmental.

Hope that helps.

That is the right system type. I am looking for some assurance that the lot will be able to handle and be permitted for that, despite the fact that it didn't pass the test for even a 3 bedroom conventional. I'm about to shell out $4,000 to determine if it'll pass. If it doesn't, I won't buy the lot but I'm out $4,000. If it does, great- I'm happy and so is the seller. Right now, the seller is sitting on a piece of dirt with a beautiful lake view that might be worthless as a home site. So, you can imagine, he really wants to sell. If it passes the test, I want to buy.

You didnt qualify for a modified conventional? Who did DHEC send out for the perc test? Sometimes they are clueless. If they would have dug the hole a few feet over it may have perked.

We dug 8 holes all over with a backhoe. They are more stringent than ever an getting worse!

If the seller is truly motivated let him foot the bill, at any rate, that will be a very expensive system to build and maintain compared to a conventional system, you must be wanting that lot super bad.

Pretty much every system here is an engineered system - too much ledge - usually means you just need fill. I don't remember paying any engineer - the town folks just required certain stuff depending on the perk test results. Then again I am sure this varies locally.

Not only expensive but can also be an eyesore. Most of the ones I have seen are above ground and covered with soil leaving a nice hill. If an engineer is charging 4k then you are looking at maybe what? 5% to 10% of actual cost at the lowest? I had one project maybe 6 years ago that had numerous home sites requiring either modified or complete systems and if my memory serves me right they were going for 25k each for full system. The developer decided not to go through with the project. The engineer will design the system to support any size house you want.... whether you have the acreage for the septic system and the house is another question. Get the seller to pay for the design/permit and also get the engineer to provide a cost estimate.

Also what system do the nieghbors have since I imagine the soil conditions are close? Sounds like this property is in a rural area since there is no public utilities. What about a small grinder station that could pump to a local utilities existing system? Next time you head out to that property look for manhole covers on the way and in the area. See what it would take to get to them, i.e. down a county or state road. There might be a permitting option there.

WWC- we think alike. I'm trying to keep it simple. Having the seller knock the difference in cost off the purchase price. Main question is still unanswered though- will the lot pass with an engineered system? Best guess?

Yes it will pass. The system will be designed for whatever house you put on the site. Question is how big of system will it take and what area will the engineer need it placed and will you have any usable space left for a house. All of which only the engineer can answer. The engineer could place it right in the front yard. Then you would have the so called hypotitis hill for the kids to play on.

Thanks! Good news is that the septic lot is a separate parcel from the home site. So, I can do what I need tomwithnthe home site. Appreciate the insight !!

engineered systems suck and there is really no way to know if it will pass

the best way I would guess would be

1. are there other houses in the area on similar sized lots that have an engineered systems and specifically ones on the lake since your potential property seems to be on the lake

2. what is the lot size......this will matter with how much you want to cover the lot and more importantly how close you will be to neighboring properties and most most important how close you may be to a neighbors well

3. are you on well water or city water.....does your lot have a well.....the the neighbors have a well or are they on city water.....having a well matters even if they do have city water

it depends on the type of engineered system.....some of them "clean" the water to the point that it is applied on the surface and some of them are very similar to conventional systems in that they just clean the water a bit better and then instead of the old layer of gravel with a level perforated pipe laying on top and then some tar paper or straw on top to keep the dirt from inflating the gravel and slowing infiltration of the water they have some type of structure in place so there is a void with the perforated pipe and the pipe is perforated so that it applies the water very very evenly and the ground inside the trench is made to be extremely level

if you are looking at an engineered system that will apply the end water on the surface and the property boundaries are large enough that you are not too close to the neighbors property lines, their well, your well, and their septic field or surface application area then there should be no reason it would not pass

if it is an engineered system that will still have a trench and an application field below ground then you might be looking a system with multiple trenches and a rotation of water from trench to trench to not overload them and that again will depend on your property size

the fact that you can't get a conventional 3/2 to pass either means you are too close to the lake, you have a very small lot, or you have hard rock not far under ground or all 3.....if that is the case then a surface application field might be your only answer if that is possible and those suck really bad for cost and maintaining

I would go with if others in the area have a similar sized lot in a similar setting and then total lot size.....if the lot is big enough then there is no reason something should not work

Seperate parcel? That could pose a problem for home construction later on. Lenders will usually not lend money on lots which do not have septic or sewer service even if you own both. It could be as simple as combining the lots later on or adding an easement to the septic parcel. Which will cost additional money. Best thing to do is consult a local engineer for costs in the area for septic and to actually look at the lot. He could give you other options. My guess is the property owner has already looked into it and decided the cost was too much.

Parcels are deeded together. Lines have been run from one to the other already. Thanks though, good advice if I didn't know...

I had one at a rural house I owned. It worked great but you cant flush tampons, kotex, plastics, rubbers, wrappers, bleachs, certain toilet cleaners and a whole list of other things. It needs to be pumped out every couple of years. If it is working correctly when they pop the top you dont get any smell and the solids are all in the front tank only. It is said that the water run off is drinkable. Right..........................

Please pay attention very close to what I'm going to write.

DO NOT EVER buy land without an approved engineered septic plan. It should be clearly part of any P&S as should a well.

I'm not getting into writing a novel of why not but just telling you don't do it. Any lawyer worth more than a Snickers Bar will tell you the same thing in these parts.

Mist-rest, agreed. That is my only due diligence item left. This poor seller- if I can't get it approved, no one will be able to. Hell be hosed!

Mist-rest, agreed. That is my only due diligence item left. This poor seller- if I can't get it approved, no one will be able to. Hell be hosed!


Sorry I don't understand.

At no time should a buyer ever utter the words "This poor seller... no one will.... hosed".

Real estate is a cut throat business. Worse than most professions ever thought of being. I wonder how many agents even sleep at night.

Guess I just don't care. Either it passes or it doesn't. If it does, I'm happy. If not, I feel bad for this guy cause of what he paid for a worthless lot. Either way, I'm fine...

I failed to mention I can not legally sell a lot without an approved and tested water supply (drilled well) and a septic permit.

It's that way for a very good reason and there is not a single person who could change my agreement with the rules about it. My own sister got burned years ago over it after I warned her. They took a bath in the loss but thankfully had it to lose. They would have felt better handing 10's of thousands of dollars to a homeless shelter than some POS RE agent and crooked law firm.

I have a lot that didn't pass the perk test and all the engineer did was take my money without getting me a permit. All the lot is good for is a garden - but we use it for a boat/trailer parking lot.

Check your pm message

Please pay attention very close to what I'm going to write.

DO NOT EVER buy land without an approved engineered septic plan. It should be clearly part of any P&S as should a well.

I'm not getting into writing a novel of why not but just telling you don't do it. Any lawyer worth more than a Snickers Bar will tell you the same thing in these parts.

Yep

Here the system was you get your perc test results and the building inspector will OK the system for such and such type of system. He checks that you have enough running feet of pipe (now they have these hi tech pre fab concrete units) high enough over grade covered to the exact right depth (the fluids basically mostly evaporate thru the top from what I hear) (and all sloped correctly) and with enough of the right type of sand/gravel. Then you are good to go. No second performance test is required, as long as you have the required design requirements and of course are in the right spot. I think they are going or did recently change it so that the fill had to be on site before you could sell the lot. This also varies slightly town to town.

Mske sure you get it approved and kmow for sure what the needs of the site are.

We are currently looking in to replacing our cesspool system at our place in Harwichport Mass out on Cape Cod. Title 5 I think they call it. Because ours is a cesspool its a failed system. It can be anywhere from 1500.00 to 3000.00 bucks just to test it out and they they will give us an estimate. Its a scary issue. Some new septic tanks in our area have run as high as 50 grand. So we are keeping our fingers crossed it will only be around 8-10 grand.

Our neighbor, who's home sits across the street and a bit lower had to get a raised system and seems like they raised the house too. Their system is one that ran 50 grand.

I just had my drain field extended with a new D box.......2000 grand. Big difference in price up north,

Problems of a Lake Murray lot had one that would not pass put a camper on it and used it for weekends. Never again.

Walk away while you still can without getting hurt.

Anyone actually have one and happy with it?