Northeast - This Stinks...Boat still INOP

Summer's almost over...and our boat has been out of commision since July 5. On that day, I guess the "engine coupler" gave out and the boat had to be towed back to home port. Our marina finally came and picked up the boat last week. As of today, no word on the progress but I hear that they have to pull the engine out to get to it! Not fun spending these nice days at home with no boat. . Oh well. I imagine the boat will be fixed just as the snow flies (just kidding, geez, I hope not!)

Anyone else ever go through this pain??

Ok, rant over

Most marine service stations require a DAILY visit to ensure "it gets done". They get sidetracked way too easy.....

Let me guess, the 26 Searay is the one with the blown engine, right? What a surprise!! :roll

Would somebody buying a Cruising style boat, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE buy something OTHER than a blessed Searay, PLEEEEEEEASE!!!

My Dad died when I was very young but one of the few pearls of wisdom he told me was "never buy an inboard, when they break, you never know how long it will take or how much it will cost to fix"!

Certainly not an axiom to live by as there are an untold amount of great inboards, but he was one person with a similar experience to yours and wanted to pass it on!

Being able to yank the outboard, and drop on another is a great argument for that type of drive.

I've driven inboards though for decades,....and have had everything break except the coupler. Was it misaligned? Packing too tight? Prop shaft bent? Prop unbalanced?

Hopefully when they put the new one in they will check these things so you don't blow the new one. Good luck, I feel your pain.

inboards; good. outboards; good. inboard/outboards; BAD... Ocean speaking.

Yup, just went through it.

Had a part break the last week of June, and I just got the boat back today. In my case, most of the wait was on parts from Japan (Yanmar engine).

But it's just another wrinkle in time. If it's not parts, it's weather, or personal schedules, or work, or whatever.

Take a deep breath, it will pass.

Yeah, its the SeaRay. The engine is I/O though (350 Merc). Our Crownline has the Same Engine! Is this a Merc problem, or a SeaRay issue?

I had a Wellcraft with an I/O for 10 years. Other than the water pump going out, it never let me down. BUT, I always did a lot of preventive maintenance and had systems checked, serviced or replaced before they failed. On average it cost me about $2000 a year in spring maintenance, but I considered it the price of a trouble free summer.

Oh yeah, and once the starter solenoid failed.

its never the boat. its always the motor and/or drive. Your searay is in saltwater, which kills outdrives and motors, as far as im concerned. I bet your crownline will outlive your searay by far. i've never owned an i/o and never will, because i've seen far too many i/o boats need major outdrive and engine overhauls, as well as seeing outdrives corrode to nothing. sorry to be such a negative nancy, just trying to be honest...

Sorry to hear that . . .

Maybe a visit with a case of beer might prime up the work?

I've hauled my boat three times this season (last was this Monday).....basically resulted in being out of the water for 4/5 weeks from last week of May-June...new fuel tank, then new battery cables required last thursday, now a new LU. Getting up to date on my honey do list.

Most marine service stations require a DAILY visit to ensure "it gets done". They get sidetracked way too easy.....

Let me guess, the 26 Searay is the one with the blown engine, right? What a surprise!! :roll

Would somebody buying a Cruising style boat, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE buy something OTHER than a blessed Searay, PLEEEEEEEASE!!!

Birdman:

Your statement would imply that MerCruiser intentionally makes inferior product specifically and only for Sea Ray and that Sea Ray is somehow totally unaware of this.

Interesting...

Doc

Summer's almost over...and our boat has been out of commision since July 5. On that day, I guess the "engine coupler" gave out and the boat had to be towed back to home port. Our marina finally came and picked up the boat last week. As of today, no word on the progress but I hear that they have to pull the engine out to get to it! Not fun spending these nice days at home with no boat. . Oh well. I imagine the boat will be fixed just as the snow flies (just kidding, geez, I hope not!)

Anyone else ever go through this pain??

Ok, rant over

I've run I/O's my whole life. Merc's aren't known for the longevity of their couplers, but that's pretty young to spin one.I have always run Volvo's and have never spun one. When you do though, it's an engine pull to replace. It's just like the hub on your props only bigger. An inner sleeve to receive the shaft from the drive surrounded by a rubber absorber to take up the torque from the flywheel which is what it mounts to.

The part is a few hundred, and the work is about 1/2 a day for a drive and engine pull and reinstall. The drive has to come off also. It's really not a bad job for anyone who is skilled at doing it, and trust me, you don't have to be a rocket scientist. I pull my drive and engine annually to check everything over becasue I can. I leave it in the garage for the winter where I can tinker with it. Takes me half a day to pull both and the same to put them back, and I am doing this in my driveway and I am a software engineer, not a mechanic. I could do it in less time but I like to take time to look over all the wiring and hoses as I go.

So , if it's taking a long time it's simply because they are not working on it. They can do this work in 1/2 a day, maybe a little more if they take lunch ;). You need to keep their feet to the fire.

I've run I/O's my whole life. Merc's aren't known for the longevity of their couplers, but that's pretty young to spin one.I have always run Volvo's and have never spun one. When you do though, it's an engine pull to replace. It's just like the hub on your props only bigger. An inner sleeve to receive the shaft from the drive surrounded by a rubber absorber to take up the torque from the flywheel which is what it mounts to.

The part is a few hundred, and the work is about 1/2 a day for a drive and engine pull and reinstall. The drive has to come off also. It's really not a bad job for anyone who is skilled at doing it, and trust me, you don't have to be a rocket scientist. I pull my drive and engine annually to check everything over becasue I can. I leave it in the garage for the winter where I can tinker with it. Takes me half a day to pull both and the same to put them back, and I am doing this in my driveway and I am a software engineer, not a mechanic. I could do it in less time but I like to take time to look over all the wiring and hoses as I go.

So , if it's taking a long time it's simply because they are not working on it. They can do this work in 1/2 a day, maybe a little more if they take lunch ;). You need to keep their feet to the fire.

Wow, that was a great write-up! Thank you. I actually had no idea what this thing was, and I now have a pretty good visual..The boat has been at the marina now for a week. But, it is a very busy place, in a very busy area...so...I am hoping soon!

Wow, that was a great write-up! Thank you. I actually had no idea what this thing was, and I now have a pretty good visual..The boat has been at the marina now for a week. But, it is a very busy place, in a very busy area...so...I am hoping soon!

Here is a picture to complete the visual. Picture this in place of your transmission on a car.

http://www.michiganmotorz.com/mercruiser-style-coupler-ford-only-p-531.html

Hey, at least the part didn't need to come from japan!

But even so, most people don't realize how hard some parts can be to replace on a boat. Especially on production boats, engine compartments are cramped places and the engine usually has to be pulled to replace anything significant, even simple bolt on parts like a starter or an alternator.

It takes a long time. It usually takes two people. The mechanics need to take breaks.

And there are normally people who see them on the dock or boat and want them to come right over or just explain something to them for the 10th time.

While I "can" do most of the work, I'd never want to be a marine mechanic. Too much grief for $50 an hour.

Birdman:

Your statement would imply that MerCruiser intentionally makes inferior product specifically and only for Sea Ray and that Sea Ray is somehow totally unaware of this.

Interesting...

Doc

Wrong. My statement implies, and is FACT, Searay constantly installs hardware INCORRECTLY. They install engines wrong, they plumb them wrong, they install outdrives and shafts wrong, and to make it worse, they also install them poorly while doing it wrong.

They cut corners, they do it the fastest and cheapest way possible with NO CONCERN for longevity or saftey. The only thing they care about, is how the boat looks in the showroom, and how comfy it is to sit on when high and dry so they can sell it!! Most of the poor un-suspecting customers that buy them then spend most of their time and money trying to keep them running, and putting them back together after getting the crap beat out of them out on the water. Sorry, the truth hurts!

Wrong. My statement implies, and is FACT, Searay constantly installs hardware INCORRECTLY. They install engines wrong, they plumb them wrong, they install outdrives and shafts wrong, and to make it worse, they also install them poorly while doing it wrong.

They cut corners, they do it the fastest and cheapest way possible with NO CONCERN for longevity or saftey. The only thing they care about, is how the boat looks in the showroom, and how comfy it is to sit on when high and dry so they can sell it!! Most of the poor un-suspecting customers that buy them then spend most of their time and money trying to keep them running, and putting them back together after getting the crap beat out of them out on the water. Sorry, the truth hurts!

Interesting. I wonder why Sea Rays are consistently rated some of the highest in quality and why they consistently are among the best to maintain their value.

But I suppose you’re right, Sea Ray owners must be among the dumbest boaters in the universe and Sea Ray manufacturing the most corrupt.

Makes perfect sense. :thumbsup:

Doc

Interesting. I wonder why Sea Rays are consistently rated some of the highest in quality and why they consistently are among the best to maintain their value.


Very simple, because they spend the most money on advertising. I know yo uwork for them, but I'll humor you: You don't think a magazine will publish negative feedback after accepting a 1 million dollar advertising contract, do ya? :roll


But I suppose you’re right, Sea Ray owners must be among the dumbest boaters in the universe and Sea Ray manufacturing the most corrupt.

Makes perfect sense. :thumbsup:

Doc

You said it, not me!!!! :grin:

But, corrupt is not the correct word. It's called Corporate greed.

PS- My buddy just finished putting in his FORTH engine in his 4 year old 37' Searay with 220 hours. All mechanics involved, including the Merc direct reps which have surveyed the boat, have all concluded the motors are installed and configured incorrectly in the boat, and it is a well know problem by both Mercruiser and Searay. The exhaust elbows do not go high enough and allow water to flow back into the engine... AND, the engine is tilted to far backward... among other things....

Hey, at least the part didn't need to come from japan!

But even so, most people don't realize how hard some parts can be to replace on a boat. Especially on production boats, engine compartments are cramped places and the engine usually has to be pulled to replace anything significant, even simple bolt on parts like a starter or an alternator.

True, but as I pointed out the worst case is an engine pull which on MOST boats will require less than 4 hours by a skilled and qualified mechanic. Calendar time for a repair has nothing to do with how hard the job is. it has to do with working on the job. He's just waiting his turn in the queue. The disservice most shops do for customers is to tell people they are working on it for weeks on end when in reality they jsut have not gotten to it.; I appreciate honesty much better, and it doesn't leave me feeling like they are incometent for taking so long on a job.




While I "can" do most of the work, I'd never want to be a marine mechanic. Too much grief for $50 an hour.Auto shops charge about 75.00 an hour. Marineshops charge 90.00+ They work hard for their money, but they do very well. And to be completely honest. working on a baot is so much easier than working on a car. I can't stress how easy it usually is to pull a boat engine. Disc wiring harness, disconnect the hoses, exhaust boots and fuel line. Unbolt 4 nuts on the motor mounts and lift her out. Maybe yo u have to remove the hatch. I know a number of marine mechs and while you and I might curse ourselves and take 9 hours to replace an alternator in boat, the good ones will pull the engine and throw it back in in 3-4. You can't do that with a car. I have a good friend who is a retired Volvo/Merc tech. Whenever I have a question and call him his first response is often "Pull the engine". I know it sounds counterintuitive, but he's always right.. I used to fight him on it. But I saw the light.

Anyhow, my point is while mechanic work can be hard at times, there is no reason for the the most difficult jobs to take more than 4-8 hours. Of course that does not include time on the bench. That is for R&R work. If you are rebuilding an outdrive well you have to add in bench time. Diagnostics can take time too. For a simple coupler though, it's a 1/2 a day. - Period.

True, but as I pointed out the worst case is an engine pull which on MOST boats will require less than 4 hours by a skilled and qualified mechanic. Calendar time for a repair has nothing to do with how hard the job is. it has to do with working on the job. He's just waiting his turn in the queue. The disservice most shops do for customers is to tell people they are working on it for weeks on end when in reality they jsut have not gotten to it.; I appreciate honesty much better, and it doesn't leave me feeling like they are incometent for taking so long on a job.




Auto mechanics make about 75.00 an hour. Marine mechs make 90.00+ They work hard for their money, but they do very well. And to be completely honest. working on a baot is so much easier than working on a car. I can't stress how easy it usually is to pull a boat engine. Disc wiring harness, disconnect the hoses, exhaust boots and fuel line. Unbolt 4 nuts on the motor mounts and lift her out. Maybe yo u have to remove the hatch. I know a number of marine mechs and while you and I might curse ourselves and take 9 hours to replace an alternator in boat, the good ones will pull the engine and throw it back in in 3-4. You can't do that with a car. I have a good friend who is a retired Volvo/Merc tech. Whenever I have a question and call him his first response is often "Pull the engine". I know it sounds counterintuitive, but he's always right.. I used to fight him on it. But I saw the light.

Anyhow, my point is while mechanic work can be hard at times, there is no reason for the the most difficult jobs to take more than 4-8 hours. Of course that does not include time on the bench. That is for R&R work. If you are rebuilding an outdrive well you have to add in bench time. Diagnostics can take time too. For a simple coupler though, it's a 1/2 a day. - Period.

McLeave's were is this that mechanic's make $75.00 an hour as I'll be right over for a job!!!!
I'm an auto tech with 40 years experience and don't make anywhere close to that and I fix a lot of stuff no one else can.

Mike

its never the boat. its always the motor and/or drive. Your searay is in saltwater, which kills outdrives and motors, as far as im concerned. I bet your crownline will outlive your searay by far. i've never owned an i/o and never will, because i've seen far too many i/o boats need major outdrive and engine overhauls, as well as seeing outdrives corrode to nothing. sorry to be such a negative nancy, just trying to be honest...

That has to be about the craziest thing I have every heard. Explain what the difference between an alumin housing on an outdrive and an aluminum housing on an outboard is that will cause one to corrode over the other? It has to do with care and maint. If you don;t care for your anodes and have stra current you are going to have corroison and you DO have corrosion in both cases. I can find just as many eaten up outboards as I/O. Raw water cooling will have as much impact on an outboard as it will an I/O, except MANY I/O's are freshwater cooled (they use antifreeze if someone wants to know) and NEVER see salt water internally.

There are a lot of reasons to go to an outboard, and personally my next boat will be a CC outboard. But that is purely for convenince. At 6'5" I am a bit tired of cramming myself into engine compartments. But longevity and fear of corrosion for one over the other isn't even on the radar. It's more price, ease of access and simple religion. One thing is for sure. When things go bad on an outboard, most backyard mechs can't fix them and it get's REALLY expensive fast.

McLeave's were is this that mechanic's make $75.00 an hour as I'll be right over for a job!!!!
I'm an auto tech with 40 years experience and don't make anywhere close to that and I fix a lot of stuff no one else can.

Mike

LOL... I see your point.. I should have said the SHOP charges that. Cost to the customer is the same. Actually most car dealerships will approach 90.00, which is why I spent two weekends ago rebuilding my own front end on my Expedition. Ball joints suck ;). At least Ford and Dodge charge that! I don;t walk into Chevy dealers for a comparison ;)

-Mike

McLeave's were is this that mechanic's make $75.00 an hour as I'll be right over for a job!!!!
I'm an auto tech with 40 years experience and don't make anywhere close to that and I fix a lot of stuff no one else can.

Mike

BTW, if you work cheap I have a TON of stuff for you ;)

LOL... I see your point.. I should have said the SHOP charges that. Cost to the customer is the same. Actually most car dealerships will approach 90.00, which is why I spent two weekends ago rebuilding my own front end on my Expedition. Ball joints suck ;). At least Ford and Dodge charge that! I don;t walk into Chevy dealers for a comparison ;)

-Mike

Yup, I was looking at it from what the mech gets paid. I'm a consultant and I don't get what my company charges either. But then again I get paid when I'm on the bench.

Interesting. I wonder why Sea Rays are consistently rated some of the highest in quality and why they consistently are among the best to maintain their value.

But I suppose you’re right, Sea Ray owners must be among the dumbest boaters in the universe and Sea Ray manufacturing the most corrupt.

Makes perfect sense. :thumbsup:

Doc

Marketing.. Sea Rays may have a slightly better fit and finish, but they are primarily living off a legacy decades old. Sea Ray, Bayliner and a number of other big names are all owned by Brunswick now., and have been for a very long time. They are all built at the same plants, by the same people, with mostly similar specs and the same materials. They don't lay up thicker hulls for Sea Rays than they do Bayliners. The myth about glass over wood core hulls has been gone since the late 70's. I had an '84 Bayliner cruiser and it was solid glass back then.

Bacially a Sea ray bought in the last 10 years (i think that was about when they moved into the same plants, one is in TN I know of), is just a Bayliner with a bigger sticker price ;) Somehow the teak floor vs carpet isn;t worth 20k to me!

The really problem with Sea rays are their owners LOL (no offense to the OP - You seem like a good guy!)

Yup, I was looking at it from what the mech gets paid. I'm a consultant and I don't get what my company charges either. But then again I get paid when I'm on the bench.

Agreed..

Most marine service stations require a DAILY visit to ensure "it gets done". They get sidetracked way too easy.....

So true.... Phone calls don't work, you need to actually visit.

So true.... Phone calls don't work, you need to actually visit.

John @ North Atlantic actually CALLED ME to discuss where we were going to get a part for my 350 Mag MPI from! Unheard of!

(I don't think I thanked the forum for pointing me towards those guys, thanks guys!)

Crownray:

I may have you beat. It took me almost 3 weeks to mix my problem. The first mechanic had it for more than 2 weeks then tells me I have a bad wiring harness (one of three and he doesn't know which one but big $$$). In his next breath he wants "me" to be happy so he tells me to go to a certified Yamaha tech just to be sure. I do, he gets my boat Sunday afternoon at 2:00pm, no one working by the way, I get a call Monday at 1:30pm... all set. The problem was the VST filter just as the THT members said it probably would be. Choose you mechanics wisely. Thanks for the help THT:thumbsup:

Crownray:

I may have you beat. It took me almost 3 weeks to mix my problem. The first mechanic had it for more than 2 weeks then tells me I have a bad wiring harness (one of three and he doesn't know which one but big $$$). In his next breath he wants "me" to be happy so he tells me to go to a certified Yamaha tech just to be sure. I do, he gets my boat Sunday afternoon at 2:00pm, no one working by the way, I get a call Monday at 1:30pm... all set. The problem was the VST filter just as the THT members said it probably would be. Choose you mechanics wisely. Thanks for the help THT:thumbsup:

This post makes my point. Most issues on a boat can be fixed in a few hours. If your boat is tied up for weeks it's becasue they are not working on it, or they are not skilled/equipped.. Sage advice regarding choosing your techs..

Glad you are back in the water.

At my marina I could visit daily. The answer was always the same, we haven't looked at it yet, but will examine it later and the work will be done in a few days at most.

After weeks and weeks of these visits, they eventually got tired of seeing me, so they fixed it.

Glad to hear you got it back. As misery loves company, my boat needed to be hauled out June 5th, and I just got it back last Friday. I went through the same thing, it'll be done this week, for 8 weeks. It's infuriating. I ended up paying a guy $80/hr to do it in his backyard. In his defense he is a "mobile mechanic". Either way, it's done, so get out and use it!

Marketing.. Sea Rays may have a slightly better fit and finish, but they are primarily living off a legacy decades old. Sea Ray, Bayliner and a number of other big names are all owned by Brunswick now., and have been for a very long time. They are all built at the same plants, by the same people, with mostly similar specs and the same materials. They don't lay up thicker hulls for Sea Rays than they do Bayliners. The myth about glass over wood core hulls has been gone since the late 70's. I had an '84 Bayliner cruiser and it was solid glass back then.

Bacially a Sea ray bought in the last 10 years (i think that was about when they moved into the same plants, one is in TN I know of), is just a Bayliner with a bigger sticker price ;) Somehow the teak floor vs carpet isn;t worth 20k to me!

The really problem with Sea rays are their owners LOL (no offense to the OP - You seem like a good guy!)


I agree that the newer SeaRays are not designed or built as well as the older ones. My 1986 39ft Express is built like a tank and has much more usable space than a new 39 ft SeaRay. The new 39 ft is 1 1/2 ft narrower and 3 ft shorter overall. Interior and cockpit are therefore cramped. Engine room access is awful. I now a lot of SeaRay owners that feel the same and would never buy a new one. The older, well kept SeaRay's sell quickly and are as well built as any coastal cruiser made, new ones not so much. I have a line of people that want mine. The $$ for these new boats are insane, don't know why anyone would buy one.

yes yes and yes. Had boat hauled to shop in Maine to fix an overheat issue. Took two and half weeks to get them to even look at it. I would call every few days and get the run around. They actually have a voicemail that says if we dont pick up the phone, dont leave a message because we are too busy. Unreal. When they finally looked at it, they found that the pressure valves at the discharge were missing causing the overheat. Ordered parts (9.99 a piece) and told me 3-4 days and parts should be in. A week and a half later, no parts. Googled the parts myself, had them overnightened and drove them to shop. A bit pleasing to see their reaction. Finally got boat back. I have since commenced a comprehensive search to find a reliable tech for etec engines. It is so frustrating to deal with seasonal shops.

yes yes and yes. Had boat hauled to shop in Maine to fix an overheat issue. Took two and half weeks to get them to even look at it. I would call every few days and get the run around. They actually have a voicemail that says if we dont pick up the phone, dont leave a message because we are too busy. Unreal. When they finally looked at it, they found that the pressure valves at the discharge were missing causing the overheat. Ordered parts (9.99 a piece) and told me 3-4 days and parts should be in. A week and a half later, no parts. Googled the parts myself, had them overnightened and drove them to shop. A bit pleasing to see their reaction. Finally got boat back. I have since commenced a comprehensive search to find a reliable tech for etec engines. It is so frustrating to deal with seasonal shops.

I think this clearly illustrates, most of the time long turnarounds are the result of the size of the queue, not the complexity of the work. I just don't understand why they won't tell people up front, "look, I know it's a small job, but I have 20 people in front of you. I just don't want to lie to you, it could be a few weeks" At that point even if it takes the time you'll appreciate the honesty and possibly come back. I think most of us are reasonable and understand bringing a boat to a shop mid summer is going to result in a long wait. But when they keep telling someone "it's just a 30.00 part, give me a couple days" and doing what they did to jobou will most often lose a customer.

Some people makes plans that have financial impact around these promises. They might have family coming that are spending money to come at a certain time etc. No that is not the marina's fault, but if family is coming in in two weeks and the part is a cheap and easy part to replace, you owe it to the customer to be honest so they can find an alternate solution. And before someone says "well you shouldn't make plans on something that is an unknown", it's no different that renting a cottage for a couple weeks and being told a month before that they need to replace the door but it will be done in a week, only to find out you can't get in the day you arrive. You make reasonable expectations regarding promises when conducting business, even if it's getting your oil changed.

McLeave's were is this that mechanic's make $75.00 an hour as I'll be right over for a job!!!!
I'm an auto tech with 40 years experience and don't make anywhere close to that and I fix a lot of stuff no one else can.

Mike


Yout think $75 is alot??? On LI if you find somebody willing to do marine work for $75 you better run to the nearest 7-11 and play LOTTO!!!!! No such thing. More like a minimum of $125 or $150

Yout think $75 is alot??? On LI if you find somebody willing to do marine work for $75 you better run to the nearest 7-11 and play LOTTO!!!!! No such thing. More like a minimum of $125 or $150

After I was done reading I was going to post this

If my current plan fails, marine mechanic..... or better yet marine electronic install/repair

Wiring up my 16' boat was a great learning experience and I had a blast doing it. Going to read more and hopefully learn more.

I used to comm fish out of my local marina the mech's seem to know their stuff, however have a ton of work to do.They weren't trained on customer service, most have no business management knowledge. Most of them just "fix" even the ones who are self employe'd. When you call them they want nothing more than to get you off the phone. They don't get paid to talk (I currently do :D)

You're in a queue when you drop your boat off....it sucks to wait but such is life