Northeast - environmental police

I had the environmental police come up to me on the water last week for the first time ever. We were fishing off of hull and catching flounder. Everyone on my boat had a license. We are anchored and there was a good 2-3 foot of chop.

They come up behind me full throttle in a ~28' CC. They come off a lobster boat wake and get their boat nearly vertical. I thought they were some yahoo by the way they handled their boat. Seriously, I could drive a boat better when I was 13. To say it bluntly, the way this guy was driving the boat scared me. You know the feeling when someone gets too close to you going to fast and they can't handle the boat. Then they throttle down, almost hit me, and then we see the EP writing on the side of the boat.

Then they want everyone on the boat to pull in their lines as they attempt to board us. After a bout 5 minutes of repeatedly nearly hitting my boat, they figure that boarding me isn't a good idea b/c of the chop. It is also kind of windy so we can barley hear what they are saying, so we assume they want to see our saltwater licenses (they did not have a bull horn or loudspeaker). They get close enough to grab one of our licenses and then they drop it in the water. They don't even apologize and start giving us an attitude. they ask to see my life jackets and want me to blow the horn. Then they floor it away from me and go after some other boat that is 300' away.

The whole time they are talking to us they both have one hand on their sidearms. They never checked anyone leses license and they never checked our fish (or even asked if we had any).

What function do these guys serve? Has anyone ever tried to complain about these guys before?

Sound like a couple of greenhorns, the few times over the years I have run into them they where cool. nothing worse than a badge with a bad attitude.

Never complained about them but I did get a ticket once... short lobsters. No fault of my own. The gauge I had was a hair smaller than theirs. I fought the ticket and won. Why I was given it in the first place when they tested my gauge and noticed I was not intentionally keeping shorts is beyond me.

Last year I was pulled over 20 miles out. They came out of no where... I had just released 3 wolffish and they checked my catch and permits. Visit was quick and painless.

Sound like a couple of greenhorns, the few times over the years I have run into them they where cool. nothing worse than a badge with a bad attitude.
Exactly!!

Ill never forget the time tuna fishing with you on City Slicker when we got boarded by the CG........You remember that day?

I've had my bout of encounters w/ MEP - but never been cited for any violations.
Alot of them are really good, but just like any agency, there are always a few bad apples.
I've been boarded soo many times in my area that I now have my COM/REC permits, REG, INS documents, and Driver's License all laminated onto one card and I hand the whole thing over.

You're best bet at battling this agency is to find out who the CO is of the office the EPO is out of...talk to this person first if you have any gripes...you'll tend to get better traction than calling Boston.

As for the hand on the gun thing - for all the nitwits they deal with out there, and not knowing who you are...can you really blame them?

Regarding the hand on the sidearms deal...
I do have an issue with that. It is a threat against my personal safety as a law abiding citizen of a free nation.
The "law enforcement" officers of this nation have plenty of leeway dealing with the public, hence gun control laws that limit legal access to legal firearms, by law abiding citizens.

You don't succeed fighting crime by criminalizing law abiding citizens.

Traffic violations are treated as a criminal offense versus the civil infraction they really are.

Law enforcement would have you believe of numerous deaths yearly in the line of duty, most of those happen to be vehicular accidents.

Don't treat me like a criminal until I give you reason to.

Mass clam cops sux a$$.

I've had my bout of encounters w/ MEP - but never been cited for any violations.
Alot of them are really good, but just like any agency, there are always a few bad apples.
I've been boarded soo many times in my area that I now have my COM/REC permits, REG, INS documents, and Driver's License all laminated onto one card and I hand the whole thing over.

You're best bet at battling this agency is to find out who the CO is of the office the EPO is out of...talk to this person first if you have any gripes...you'll tend to get better traction than calling Boston.

As for the hand on the gun thing - for all the nitwits they deal with out there, and not knowing who you are...can you really blame them?


I have a real problem with the gun thing. I have a nice boat (4 yr old regulator) and myself and all the guys on my boat were dressed in kaki's and polo shirts. I am a corporate lawyer, I had clients (other corporate lawyers) and my father (65 yr old retired Army Colonel) out fishing. Honestly, I don't know if a couple of them will go out again b/c of the gun thing. I also felt embarassed for my dad, he is used to being treated with respect. Moreover, I could lose business b/c of these nitwits. If they can't handle their boat and treat people with respect on the water they shouldn't be out there. I spend allot of money on boating and the time I have on the water is precious. The last thing I want to do is help "train" new environmental police.

Also, they came up to me. If I approached them, maybe I could see your line of reasoning. Maybe.

I am pretty sure that these guys were out of Hingham b/c I have seen the boat tied up there next to the ferry. Also, they weren't young, probably in their 40's, i.e. old enough to know better.

The real issue is why does every agency in the state need a $400k attack boat.

Clam cops
State Police
Boston Police
Harbormasters
Coast Guard

Give the Coast Guard the top of the line boats, training and gear. When I'm sinking I want the Coast Guard doing mach 3 in a jet powered cigarette boat burning 400 gallons per hour of 100 octane race gas.

When I'm enjoying a cocktail fishing for flounder with my kids, I don't need the Hingham harbormaster in a $400k attack boat with a .50 cal machine gun and night vision checking my saltwater license and giving me a portable breathalyzer.

Every agency now feels the need to justify their existence and board boats harassing people on a sunday afternoon.

The epitome of government spending out of control: The Hingham Harbormaster boat. This isn't an attack on him but government spending out of control. No offense to Ken Corson, the hingham harbormaster who's a nice guy. He would do just fine in a $50k regulator. He'd have everything he needs and cruise in style. If I was in his position and everyone else was getting one, I'd do the same and fight for mine too.

http://i854.photobucket.com/albums/ab110/amar1293/Capture-1.jpg

The list of towns now with the above boat. Some towns have multiple.

Plymouth
Duxbury
Marshfield (incoming)
Hingham
Quincy
Weymouth

To name a few.....

I'm sure I'll now have a regular boarding thanks to this post.

I have a real problem with the gun thing. I have a nice boat (4 yr old regulator) and myself and all the guys on my boat were dressed in kaki's and polo shirts. I am a corporate lawyer, I had clients (other corporate lawyers) and my father (65 yr old retired Army Colonel) out fishing. Honestly, I don't know if a couple of them will go out again b/c of the gun thing. I also felt embarassed for my dad, he is used to being treated with respect. Moreover, I could lose business b/c of these nitwits. If they can't handle their boat and treat people with respect on the water they shouldn't be out there. I spend allot of money on boating and the time I have on the water is precious. The last thing I want to do is help "train" new environmental police.

Also, they came up to me. If I approached them, maybe I could see your line of reasoning. Maybe.

I am pretty sure that these guys were out of Hingham b/c I have seen the boat tied up there next to the ferry. Also, they weren't young, probably in their 40's, i.e. old enough to know better.

Most people don't understand what its like to be a LEO. These people put their lives on the line every day. They have no idea what they are approaching.

No offense, but if I saw 4-5 guys dressed in khakis and polo shirts on a Regulator for a day of fishing, I'd be pretty suspect. I don't know many fisherman that dress like that to go fishing, especially on snotty days.

As for you possibly losing business, that's on you. No EP officer suggested you take clients out on your boat. If you lose business because some other lawyers didn't like the Mass EP, good. You probably don't want to do business with those folks anyway.

All that said, aren't you the guy who didn't know the striper keeper regulations just a month or two ago? If so, I wouldn't worry too much about "training" anyone.

Its amazing what can be twisted into "public saftey" after 9/11!! Its ashame so much $$ is wasted on keeping us safe!! Dont get me wrong, alot is spent in the rite places, but thats not always the case.
I built the rapid response building at the coast guard station Boston where they house and maintain 4 of those rigs! Coasties all day long deserve those rigs, harbor masters, hardly!! How bout a nice 21'-26' Maritime Skiff for realistic harbor master rig??

When in doubt call the coast guard. Unsafe boating practices might indicate dui.

Most people don't understand what its like to be a LEO. These people put their lives on the line every day. They have no idea what they are approaching.

No offense, but if I saw 4-5 guys dressed in khakis and polo shirts on a Regulator for a day of fishing, I'd be pretty suspect. I don't know many fisherman that dress like that to go fishing, especially on snotty days.

As for you possibly losing business, that's on you. No EP officer suggested you take clients out on your boat. If you lose business because some other lawyers didn't like the Mass EP, good. You probably don't want to do business with those folks anyway.

All that said, aren't you the guy who didn't know the striper keeper regulations just a month or two ago? If so, I wouldn't worry too much about "training" anyone.
I for one understand what an LEO goes through and can appreciate the efforts of the few good cops, but they are human, and humans suck when given power. Both times Ive been stopped this year (once by the EP once by the CG) they did not board, asked for my registration, looked at my life jackets and said have a good day.....guess I was lucky. the craptastic thing about boats is they do not need probable cause to board, search or confiscate your boat, just suspicion.

On a different more postive note, I was boarded by the Coasties outside of Hadley's Harbor on Sunday. They were very professional and friendly. The young serviceman driving the boat handled it expertly. They inspected the boat and safety gear in a nice and polite manor. They made one suggestion of where I stow my throw cushion. They wrote up my "yellow ticket" stating I passed the inspection. And they were quickly on their way.

Professional, quick, painless and very pleasant.... I love my yearly Coastie inspection becuase you never know what you may have missed.

Mike

I'm sure I'll now have a regular boarding thanks to this post.

amarshall,
This morning there was a knock on my door, and a couple of guys wearing black suits were standing there with dark sunglasses on. I nervously said, "Can I help you?", one of them said, we need to know what your affiliation with a guy named "amarshal" is?. I was so scared, I told them EVERYTHING!!! Sorry!!!!!!


:grin:

These local and state PD boats are so wasteful. Where I boat it is not uncommon to see the State Troopers going full throttle east and pass the Sheriff going full throttle west. It makes me think they are not really doing anything important. That or a simple phone or radio call would saved time and fuel if you're passing eachother at full speed going opposite directions. The USCG is, from every experience I've had, excellent and professional. The local and state guys though, not so much. They are kind of a joke. One example: I saw the sheriff guys using their beautiful Parker 2501 to drag some guy in a Bayliner cruiser out of about a foot of water by hooking his anchor line to their boat and pulling full throttle straight ahead. Needless to say, it did not work.

I know a guy (outboard mechanic) who maintains the motors on the local Police boats like the one shown above. He said he mounts brand new motors for them, and tells them to take it easy and vary the speed for the first 100 hours or so (break in period). He gets them back at around around 500 hours a few weeks later, and the computer shows it's been run at WOT for 94% of the time. The other 6% I'm sure was the time it took to get out of the marina.

Most people don't understand what its like to be a LEO. These people put their lives on the line every day. They have no idea what they are approaching.

No offense, but if I saw 4-5 guys dressed in khakis and polo shirts on a Regulator for a day of fishing, I'd be pretty suspect. I don't know many fisherman that dress like that to go fishing, especially on snotty days.

As for you possibly losing business, that's on you. No EP officer suggested you take clients out on your boat. If you lose business because some other lawyers didn't like the Mass EP, good. You probably don't want to do business with those folks anyway.

All that said, aren't you the guy who didn't know the striper keeper regulations just a month or two ago? If so, I wouldn't worry too much about "training" anyone.

Just out of curosity, what should I wear to not look suspect when fishing? If khakis and a polo shirt are a red flag to law enforcement, what should I wear? Cut off jeans and a dirty tank top? Perhaps and eye patch, puffy shirt and tight black knickers? A full set of orange Grundens? The uniform of the international drug runner is khakis and polo shorts, every one knows that, and I don't want to be mistaken for Pablo Escobar.

Most people don't understand what its like to be a LEO. These people put their lives on the line every day. They have no idea what they are approaching.

No offense, but if I saw 4-5 guys dressed in khakis and polo shirts on a Regulator for a day of fishing, I'd be pretty suspect. I don't know many fisherman that dress like that to go fishing, especially on snotty days.

As for you possibly losing business, that's on you. No EP officer suggested you take clients out on your boat. If you lose business because some other lawyers didn't like the Mass EP, good. You probably don't want to do business with those folks anyway.

All that said, aren't you the guy who didn't know the striper keeper regulations just a month or two ago? If so, I wouldn't worry too much about "training" anyone.

Jzima...
Please explain how our military is able to protect us globally without infringing on our personal freedoms, yet our local "leo"'s need to profile everyone to "safely" perform their duties?!
Do you honestly believe our military service members fight, sacrifice, and die abroad for us to live in a police state at home?

98% of citizens confronted by your "leo"'s are unarmed because that's the way our government likes it, yet 100% of us need to profiled/criminalized for the safety of an "leo"?

100% of all burning buildings are a deadly threat to a fireman, but he doesn't profile who may be inside and determine if they are worthy of rescue.

Should I assault every person of middle eastern descent because they may be a terrorist??

A few hundred years ago there was this little thing called "The American Revolution" where common, hard working, law abiding citizens stood up to a tyrannical government. If you dont see the parallels, then shame on you. If you are willing to give up your personal freedoms, don't assume others are so willing.

Most people don't understand what its like to be a LEO. These people put their lives on the line every day. They have no idea what they are approaching.

No offense, but if I saw 4-5 guys dressed in khakis and polo shirts on a Regulator for a day of fishing, I'd be pretty suspect. I don't know many fisherman that dress like that to go fishing, especially on snotty days.

As for you possibly losing business, that's on you. No EP officer suggested you take clients out on your boat. If you lose business because some other lawyers didn't like the Mass EP, good. You probably don't want to do business with those folks anyway.

All that said, aren't you the guy who didn't know the striper keeper regulations just a month or two ago? If so, I wouldn't worry too much about "training" anyone.

Jizman, no offense taken but why the hostility. Got a problem with me? I know plenty of lawyers that take clients out. I also take out quite a few LEO's, most often my brother and some fo his colleagues. I asked if there was a striper boat limit this year b/c someone told me that and I couldn't find anything online.

You are correct, those EP guys are really putting themselves in harms way by harassing every boat they see out on the water on a Friday afternoon. Look out for that boat of lawyers over there, they may be transporting WMD's.

The more I think about it, these guys were definitely the EP's B-team b/c they had a fiberglass CC, not one of those fancy attack boats.

I've got to say the number of agency boats on boston harbor is out of control. Anytime I see a boat racing around among other boats its always a souped up LEO boat. There's no way that number is needed and they way they drive them looks like a lot of fun, but probably means they don't last that long. Most of my encounters with them have been pretty polite and I've never had any issue, though one guy on the edge of a security zone (where I was stopped and well outside it) did point out the 50 caliber gun on the front of another boat and said "stay back", which seemed pointless to me. (By the way the security zone was for a tall ship, not something like an LNG tanker). Unfortunately a bad officer can really hurt public relations. Most people tend to make an effort to put LEO's at ease during boarding etc knowing how hard and dangerous their jobs can be, they should at least return the common courtesy and be polite and not do things to put people at risk (i.e. boarding in rough seas when its not an emergency)

Most people don't understand what its like to be a LEO. These people put their lives on the line every day. They have no idea what they are approaching.

No offense, but if I saw 4-5 guys dressed in khakis and polo shirts on a Regulator for a day of fishing, I'd be pretty suspect. I don't know many fisherman that dress like that to go fishing, especially on snotty days.

As for you possibly losing business, that's on you. No EP officer suggested you take clients out on your boat. If you lose business because some other lawyers didn't like the Mass EP, good. You probably don't want to do business with those folks anyway.

All that said, aren't you the guy who didn't know the striper keeper regulations just a month or two ago? If so, I wouldn't worry too much about "training" anyone.

Sorry, can't agree. I'm guessing by the defensive nature of your post, you're a gov't/municipal employee. Tell me the last time an EPO risked his life on the harbor (apart from the danger they represent with their own bad boat handling). The comment about the khakis is comical. He has a legit concern with taking people out on his boat who don't want to be made uncomfortable by law enforcement posturing with firearms - they were checking fishing permits for christsakes - which, by-the-way, they couldn't effectively do.

Most people tend to make an effort to put LEO's at ease during boarding etc knowing how hard and dangerous their jobs can be, they should at least return the common courtesy and be polite and not do things to put people at risk (i.e. boarding in rough seas when its not an emergency)

Good point... During my coastie boarding, I had to reach into my console to get my wallet and registration. I told him what I was reaching for and asked if it was ok. He asked if I had any weapons on board other than a filet knife and smiled. They apprciated that I asked....

Mike

Just out of curosity, what should I wear to not look suspect when fishing? If khakis and a polo shirt are a red flag to law enforcement, what should I wear? Cut off jeans and a dirty tank top? Perhaps and eye patch, puffy shirt and tight black knickers? A full set of orange Grundens? The uniform of the international drug runner is khakis and polo shorts, every one knows that, and I don't want to be mistaken for Pablo Escobar.

Suspect to me? Why does it matter? If you must know...wear a bathing suit and a tattered tee or something along those lines. On snotty days, maybe some wet gear. But I stand by what I said...if I see golfer looking guys fishing in a boat, I'm not thinking they are experienced fishermen. Same applies to golfing. If I see jorts and a tank top on the course, I'm not thinking they are good golfers either.

Profiling works. Period.

Sorry, can't agree. I'm guessing by the defensive nature of your post, you're a gov't/municipal employee. Tell me the last time an EPO risked his life on the harbor (apart from the danger they represent with their own bad boat handling). The comment about the khakis is comical. He has a legit concern with taking people out on his boat who don't want to be made uncomfortable by law enforcement posturing with firearms - they were checking fishing permits for christsakes -- which by-the-way, they couldn't effectively do!

Horrible guess. Just horrible.

The last time he risked his life on the harbor was the last time he went to work. He has no idea what he was in for that day. Hell, maybe he was riding with a newbie who didn't know how to operate the boat. As for "posturing" with firearms....according to the OP, they merely kept their hands on their sidearms. That's pretty consistent with every cop that's ever approached a car. If he was pulled over for speeding with clients in the car, would you be demonizing the cop for not "knowing" better and not having his hand on his sidearm as he approached the car?

Jzima...
Please explain how our military is able to protect us globally without infringing on our personal freedoms, yet our local "leo"'s need to profile everyone to "safely" perform their duties?!
Do you honestly believe our military service members fight, sacrifice, and die abroad for us to live in a police state at home?

98% of citizens confronted by your "leo"'s are unarmed because that's the way our government likes it, yet 100% of us need to profiled/criminalized for the safety of an "leo"?

100% of all burning buildings are a deadly threat to a fireman, but he doesn't profile who may be inside and determine if they are worthy of rescue.

Should I assault every person of middle eastern descent because they may be a terrorist??

A few hundred years ago there was this little thing called "The American Revolution" where common, hard working, law abiding citizens stood up to a tyrannical government. If you dont see the parallels, then shame on you. If you are willing to give up your personal freedoms, don't assume others are so willing.

No need to explain it. It's right there in the OP's post. He WANTED them to profile him. He WANTED them to look over, see an "expensive" boat with a bunch of yuppies on board and leave them alone. Ask him those questions, not me. I'm merely defending them for NOT profiling him and his friends.

And your numbers are off. 98% are unarmed? Really? Funny...as the US has more guns per person than any nation out there. But lets not make this about gun control, because I'd imagine we're on the same side of that issue. My only point is, don't lie, and don't make up bullshit to prove your point. If it can't stand on its own with truth, then simply don't post it.

As for personal freedoms, which ones, specifically, did the OP give up in his encounter with the EP? They didn't take their weapons out. They didn't train them on anyone. They didn't even board his vessel. So enough with the pseudo-drama and stick to the facts, okay chuckie?

Jizman, no offense taken but why the hostility. Got a problem with me? I know plenty of lawyers that take clients out. I also take out quite a few LEO's, most often my brother and some fo his colleagues. I asked if there was a striper boat limit this year b/c someone told me that and I couldn't find anything online.

You are correct, those EP guys are really putting themselves in harms way by harassing every boat they see out on the water on a Friday afternoon. Look out for that boat of lawyers over there, they may be transporting WMD's.

The more I think about it, these guys were definitely the EP's B-team b/c they had a fiberglass CC, not one of those fancy attack boats.

No hostility whatsoever. Just pointing out that it was your choice to take clients on your boat. What happens after that, particularly during what appears to be a legal encounter with law enforcement and how that effects your business is on you, not the LEOs.

Here you are again, disparaging their job. Common sense tells us all that if they truly harassed every boat out there, you wouldn't be the only one whining about it here...but you are. Odd.

As for the striper limit part, I just found it funny that you mentioned "training" law officers when you, yourself are a lawyer and couldn't find the answer to what the "law" was when it came to how many fish you could keep. Like I said...I wouldn't worry about anyone coming to you for "training".

No need to explain it. It's right there in the OP's post. He WANTED them to profile him. He WANTED them to look over, see an "expensive" boat with a bunch of yuppies on board and leave them alone. Ask him those questions, not me. I'm merely defending them for NOT profiling him and his friends.

And your numbers are off. 98% are unarmed? Really? Funny...as the US has more guns per person than any nation out there. But lets not make this about gun control, because I'd imagine we're on the same side of that issue. My only point is, don't lie, and don't make up bullshit to prove your point. If it can't stand on its own with truth, then simply don't post it.

As for personal freedoms, which ones, specifically, did the OP give up in his encounter with the EP? They didn't take their weapons out. They didn't train them on anyone. They didn't even board his vessel. So enough with the pseudo-drama and stick to the facts, okay chuckie?

My point isn't "bullshit" as you claim...before an "leo" even completes a traffic stop on a motorist, he has pulled up more information on his laptop about the vehicle and "potential perp" inside than you and I could gather on ourselves in one week! If the vehicle isn't stolen, then the legal driver is known to be a gun holder, or not.

I notice you only responded to one point that I made.... please continue.... actually don't waste my time as you clearly don't appreciate your personal freedoms.

Nice pot hauler on transom of Hingham Harbormaster boat

As a former MDC employee myself in the Boston Harbor Islands, this has been going on since the dawn of time in massachusetts. Once of the most coveted jobs in the state is Boston police marine unit. That doesn't bother me. It's when every municipality now has a $400k tour boat AND they are giving tours and boozing out there.

http://www.myfoxboston.com/story/18976423/quincy-police-under-fire-for-using-boats-for-tours

My point isn't "bullshit" as you claim...before an "leo" even completes a traffic stop on a motorist, he has pulled up more information on his laptop about the vehicle and "potential perp" inside than you and I could gather on ourselves in one week! If the vehicle isn't stolen, then the legal driver is known to be a gun holder, or not.

I notice you only responded to one point that I made.... please continue.... actually don't waste my time as you clearly don't appreciate your personal freedoms.

You mean the legal owner of the car, not necessarily the driver. And he knows only if said owner legally own a weapon. Semantics I guess? As for your other points, they probabaly didn't warrant a response, but I'll go back and recheck.

Jzima...
Please explain how our military is able to protect us globally without infringing on our personal freedoms, yet our local "leo"'s need to profile everyone to "safely" perform their duties?!
Do you honestly believe our military service members fight, sacrifice, and die abroad for us to live in a police state at home?

98% of citizens confronted by your "leo"'s are unarmed because that's the way our government likes it, yet 100% of us need to profiled/criminalized for the safety of an "leo"?

100% of all burning buildings are a deadly threat to a fireman, but he doesn't profile who may be inside and determine if they are worthy of rescue.

Should I assault every person of middle eastern descent because they may be a terrorist??

A few hundred years ago there was this little thing called "The American Revolution" where common, hard working, law abiding citizens stood up to a tyrannical government. If you dont see the parallels, then shame on you. If you are willing to give up your personal freedoms, don't assume others are so willing.

Here I go.

Protecting us and policing us are entirely different jobs. I believe the armed forces profiles in their attemps to protect us. The primary difference being that those they are profiling aren't a targeted voting group as they are largely foreign, so we don't hear much about it from the bleeding hearts.

No, I don't believe anything you've incorrectly assumed about me re: our armed forces. Where did I write this, or what, specifically, did I say that made you believe this? It would appear as though you simply ascribed this to me so you would have something to argue with.

We've already addressed the 98% lie. Why do you believe that the government of the nation with the most guns per person in all the world, "wants" 98% to be unarmed? Seems like a silly thing to say when one looks at the facts.

I'm not sure of what your fireman analogy is meant to point out. Fireman aren't attempting to detain criminals. Try to keep it somewhat on point, lest your already weak argument be exposed further.

No, you shouldn't assault anyone. We are not a civilization of vigilantes. Should, however, there be a rash of breakins in your neighborhood or boatyard, should you see any unsavory figures, or those that generally don't appear to belong, you should call the authorities.

As for the AR, you have that a bit wrong. Technically speaking, they weren't law abiding citizens, hence their desire to overthrow the system of government which made those laws. Semantics though.

As for giving up my freedoms, no, I do not ascribe to give any of them up. What precisely gave you this notion? You aren't trying to argue with yourself again, are you?

As for the OP and his experience, what rights did he give p, in your eyes? What did the police do wrong in this instance?

It would seem to me that they went out of their way to NOT profile in this case. Had the OP and his buddies been a bunch of Haitians or Cubans, I could see that argument, but it would appear to me that the LEOs involved treated them no differently than anyone else, no matter how much the OP feels his nice boat or Polo shirts shouldve garnered him some preferential treatment.

Here I go.

Protecting us and policing us are entirely different jobs. I believe the armed forces profiles in their attemps to protect us. The primary difference being that those they are profiling aren't a targeted voting group as they are largely foreign, so we don't hear much about it from the bleeding hearts.

No, I don't believe anything you've incorrectly assumed about me re: our armed forces. Where did I write this, or what, specifically, did I say that made you believe this? It would appear as though you simply ascribed this to me so you would have something to argue with.

We've already addressed the 98% lie. Why do you believe that the government of the nation with the most guns per person in all the world, "wants" 98% to be unarmed? Seems like a silly thing to say when one looks at the facts.

I'm not sure of what your fireman analogy is meant to point out. Fireman aren't attempting to detain criminals. Try to keep it somewhat on point, lest your already weak argument be exposed further.

No, you shouldn't assault anyone. We are not a civilization of vigilantes. Should, however, there be a rash of breakins in your neighborhood or boatyard, should you see any unsavory figures, or those that generally don't appear to belong, you should call the authorities.

As for the AR, you have that a bit wrong. Technically speaking, they weren't law abiding citizens, hence their desire to overthrow the system of government which made those laws. Semantics though.

As for giving up my freedoms, no, I do not ascribe to give any of them up. What precisely gave you this notion? You aren't trying to argue with yourself again, are you?

As for the OP and his experience, what rights did he give p, in your eyes? What did the police do wrong in this instance?

It would seem to me that they went out of their way to NOT profile in this case. Had the OP and his buddies been a bunch of Haitians or Cubans, I could see that argument, but it would appear to me that the LEOs involved treated them no differently than anyone else, no matter how much the OP feels his nice boat or Polo shirts shouldve garnered him some preferential treatment.

My references all are to the point of a growing police state.
By the time most are aware of this, it will be too late.

Two weeks back while I was doing a chin gaff on a 43 inch striper near the Graves, I looked up and saw the EP 40 feet off my port side.

It had taken a few minutes to bring the fish in, I thought with the initial run I had a tuna.

Never saw the EP until I reached back for the gaff.

They were the friendliest guys I have come across. Been checked out several times over the past six years, never had a problem, always professional.

Offered my papers without being asked, and talked about how well my 18 foot Lady Bug boat handled the harbor and how I had seen a new jade green 22 foot Lady Bug by the Fore River a few days earlier.

The sidearm issue on the greenhorns will go away with experience, the dangerous handling of their boat needs to be addressed by their supervisors before someone is injured.

Remember your manners on the water, most people will appreciate it and share the wealth.

:)

It is a threat against my personal safety as a law abiding citizen of a free nation.

The reason he has his hand on his weapon is because this manner of mindset can lead otherwise normal citizens to act stupidly. Paranoia can be a dangerous thing to those without the mental faculty to keep it in perspective ... :nono:

I hate getting sucked into these internet arguments but here I go. I am in the business of teachng defensive tactics, hand to hand combat and survival mostly federal agencies, prison guards, military, private security contractors, etc but sometimes I do local or state agencies. Usually they get some grant so they have me come in and try to teach their guys some stuff. I'm close to this industry and I have very little tolerance for small town cops whith a hero complex. I respect the people, usually they are perfectly nice, but the the heroic crap has to stop.

Spare me the "they take their lives in their hands" bit. I've met hundreds of small town guys who have never, not once, had to draw their weapon. Yes, they take their lives in their hands, but so to commercial fishermen, bank tellers, tow truck drivers, miners etc. I deal with real life, highly trained killers every day and they have way less ego than most of the local and county guys I deal with.

As for the U.S. being the most armed country in the world or whatever jzima said, I am guessing you have never done any time in Pakistan, Somolia, Iraq, Afganastan, Lebanon, Ethopia, etc. I have been to all those places and trust me, they have WAY more guns than us and a whole lot less reluctant to use them.

Sorry for the rant. Being in the the business and picking up on the tone of jzima's comments struck a nerve with me.

I hate getting sucked into these internet arguments but here I go. I am in the business of teachng defensive tactics, hand to hand combat and survival mostly federal agencies, prison guards, military, private security contractors, etc but sometimes I do local or state agencies. Usually they get some grant so they have me come in and try to teach their guys some stuff. I'm close to this industry and I have very little tolerance for small town cops whith a hero complex. I respect the people, usually they are perfectly nice, but the the heroic crap has to stop.

Spare me the "they take their lives in their hands" bit. I've met hundreds of small town guys who have never, not once, had to draw their weapon. Yes, they take their lives in their hands, but so to commercial fishermen, bank tellers, tow truck drivers, miners etc. I deal with real life, highly trained killers every day and they have way less ego than most of the local and county guys I deal with.

As for the U.S. being the most armed country in the world or whatever jzima said, I am guessing you have never done any time in Pakistan, Somolia, Iraq, Afganastan, Lebanon, Ethopia, etc. I have been to all those places and trust me, they have WAY more guns than us and a whole lot less reluctant to use them.

Sorry for the rant. Being in the the business and picking up on the tone of jzima's comments struck a nerve with me.

Thank you for saying what I couldn't

this is the liveliest string I've read in a long time!

Thank you Rio and Badd Jack for bringing sanity and clarity back...

Get yourself an AIS transmitter, I have never been boarded, ever.

Another recreational boater turned sour by the abusive of power by the EP. Got an absolutely lame ticket recently.Takes the fun out of boating.

Also apalled by the ridiculous boats the the locals now have. It is absurd what these guys have been given.

What ever happened to being just a little more relaxed and safety conscious and letting us private citizens enjoy our day of fishing/entertaining/boating and not bothering anyone?

Hopefully all of this discussion will help find a way to moderate their behavior and serve the citizens, not harass the citizens.

Everyone is a threat, trust no one!

I think we need to separate the difference between the EPO's and the Police, CG, Harbor patrol ETC. while they are all funded by the DHS the EPO's down this way have pretty old equipment. When I was last checked it was a beat up parker 25 CC with twin two smokers. our harbor patrol is a parker as well, Although newer it is not as obscene as the other Para-Military boats out there.

The job of the EPO is an important one, without them alot of fishermen would take more than the allowed limit or short fish. Now I am not defending the officers in the OP's post, that is A#1 douchbaggery right there. but not all of them are arseholes.
Keep a tight ship and play by the rules and they cant touch you, simple as that.

My references all are to the point of a growing police state.
By the time most are aware of this, it will be too late.

Okay, cool. So your rant had nothing to do with this topic and you simply just wanted to see your name on the interweb. Next time, please save us all the time and put that in the intro. Something like "This has nothing to do with the discussion at hand, and I'm going to ascribe something to someone here just so that I may argue against it".

I hate getting sucked into these internet arguments but here I go. I am in the business of teachng defensive tactics, hand to hand combat and survival mostly federal agencies, prison guards, military, private security contractors, etc but sometimes I do local or state agencies. Usually they get some grant so they have me come in and try to teach their guys some stuff. I'm close to this industry and I have very little tolerance for small town cops whith a hero complex. I respect the people, usually they are perfectly nice, but the the heroic crap has to stop.

Spare me the "they take their lives in their hands" bit. I've met hundreds of small town guys who have never, not once, had to draw their weapon. Yes, they take their lives in their hands, but so to commercial fishermen, bank tellers, tow truck drivers, miners etc. I deal with real life, highly trained killers every day and they have way less ego than most of the local and county guys I deal with.

As for the U.S. being the most armed country in the world or whatever jzima said, I am guessing you have never done any time in Pakistan, Somolia, Iraq, Afganastan, Lebanon, Ethopia, etc. I have been to all those places and trust me, they have WAY more guns than us and a whole lot less reluctant to use them.

Sorry for the rant. Being in the the business and picking up on the tone of jzima's comments struck a nerve with me.

Anyone can simplify an argument in an attempt to make their point, but it doesn't make their point any more valid. Yeah, comm fisherman risk their lives, so do bank tellers, blah blah blah....but they don't risk it to save someone elses. They don't risk it to chase down criminals, now do they? To compare the two is demonstrative of how weak you, yourself, believes your argument to be.

As for the cops not having to draw their weapons, how does that apply here? Did I miss something the OP said? Did these EP's draw their weapons? What actions, in particular, do you believe warranted a description of "hero complex"?

As for spending time in Pakistan, Somolia, Iraq or others, no I haven't. I'm at a loss for why you would bring them up though. I know that facts can be sometimes inconvenient, but I thought perhaps you'd like to address these.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_of_guns_per_capita_by_country

http://www.reuters.com/article/2007/08/28/us-world-firearms-idUSL2834893820070828

Now certainly your perception of those places may have led you to believe otherwise, but I'd surmise that when you spent time in those places, you weren't vacationing, and perhaps, just perhaps, you were there during some war time, as opposed to being in your neighborhood. But, that doesn't change the fact that the US is far and away the most heavily armed country, per person, in the world.

Perception and reality....well, you're a smart guy. You know the rest.

Ive been borded plenty of times by both the dec and cg. My experiences are too many to list.
Your experience although inconvienent to you to some degree is not a big deal at all.I see no reason for your rant.
Be glad they did not ask you to go to the nearest dock for an inspection as has happened to me on several occasions.
Why has it happened to me you may ask.Because any DEC boat that sees a 32ft sportfish break the inlet with 9 internationals in its rod holders and what appears to running bow hi with a giant exactics box in the stern may have some ilegal fish in it.
Why did they check you,well if it were me seeing 4 or 5 guys dressed in polo shirts looking like they belong at a polo match and not fishing I would think to my self...self I bet all those guys dont have a fishing license..
Now i take all my offshore reels and put them in the cabin 4 or 5 miles from the inlet and put fluke rods in the rod holders,problem solved.
As for the gun issue.I honestly dont know what to say to that except grow a pair.

http://www.cnn.com/video/?hpt=hp_c2#/video/bestoftv/2012/07/30/dnt-dashcam-indiana-man-shoot-cop.wish

Damn LEO. Should've left this car alone. A white volvo with a white guy driving? Why even pull it over for a busted tail light? Should've simply assumed it was some lawyer taking his clients out. Good thing he didn't have his hand on his gun....

My point isn't "bullshit" as you claim...before an "leo" even completes a traffic stop on a motorist, he has pulled up more information on his laptop........ then the legal driver is known to be a gun holder, or not.





There is no correlation to having a LTC and a DL in Massachusetts.
Matter of fact Maine is the only state I recall out of MA/NH/ME that even asks for your DL number but I don't know if they are cross referenced. Maine's LTC paperwork is pretty intensive.

http://www.cnn.com/video/?hpt=hp_c2#/video/bestoftv/2012/07/30/dnt-dashcam-indiana-man-shoot-cop.wish

Damn LEO. Should've left this car alone. A white volvo with a white guy driving? Why even pull it over for a busted tail light? Should've simply assumed it was some lawyer taking his clients out. Good thing he didn't have his hand on his gun....
and that kids is precisely why I carry a concealed .40 each and every day.......just sayin.

But the CAR, with a busted tail light gave the POLICE OFFICER probable cause to pull him over.

I suppose it can be paralleled with a BOAT engaged in FISHING as probable cause as well. But COPS and EPO's CANNOT just pull some over, or board with weapons drawn. that cop had no chance, since the perp fled his weapon should have been un-holstered and ready, and he should have probably called for backup.

and that kids is precisely why I carry a concealed .40 each and every day.......just sayin.

But the CAR, with a busted tail light gave the POLICE OFFICER probable cause to pull him over.

I suppose it can be paralleled with a BOAT engaged in FISHING as probable cause as well. But COPS and EPO's CANNOT just pull some over, or board with weapons drawn. that cop had no chance, since the perp fled his weapon should have been un-holstered and ready, and he should have probably called for backup.

When I pass a LEO boat. I tell everyone to put down their beers.

I try and give them as little as possible probable cause. More often than not, we have 4 or 5 thirty something white males which on the water is akin to having 4 or 5 burqas on an airplane.

The only people that get pulled over and searched more than us is the poor teenagers in the Whalers. I saw a group of 17 yr olds the other day getting the full deep cavity.

http://i854.photobucket.com/albums/ab110/amar1293/imagesqtbnANd9GcTGuYb26EXtwZR7ydWCr.jpg

What is a LEO?

Law Enforcement Officer.

Anyone can simplify an argument in an attempt to make their point, but it doesn't make their point any more valid. Yeah, comm fisherman risk their lives, so do bank tellers, blah blah blah....but they don't risk it to save someone elses. They don't risk it to chase down criminals, now do they? To compare the two is demonstrative of how weak you, yourself, believes your argument to be.

As for the cops not having to draw their weapons, how does that apply here? Did I miss something the OP said? Did these EP's draw their weapons? What actions, in particular, do you believe warranted a description of "hero complex"?

As for spending time in Pakistan, Somolia, Iraq or others, no I haven't. I'm at a loss for why you would bring them up though. I know that facts can be sometimes inconvenient, but I thought perhaps you'd like to address these.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_of_guns_per_capita_by_country

http://www.reuters.com/article/2007/08/28/us-world-firearms-idUSL2834893820070828

Now certainly your perception of those places may have led you to believe otherwise, but I'd surmise that when you spent time in those places, you weren't vacationing, and perhaps, just perhaps, you were there during some war time, as opposed to being in your neighborhood. But, that doesn't change the fact that the US is far and away the most heavily armed country, per person, in the world.

Perception and reality....well, you're a smart guy. You know the rest.

you've got waaaay to much free time on your hands, bro. Sure you don't work for the feds/state? Also, you sound a tad jealous of a fellow that can afford a new Reg and has a career where he can take clients out.

Joe Polo shirt.

you've got waaaay to much free time on your hands, bro. Sure you don't work for the feds/state? Also, you sound a tad jealous of a fellow that can afford a new Reg and has a career where he can take clients out.

Joe Polo shirt.

Agreed on the time, "bro". I'm actually working now, so it's not that big a deal. After all, I'm getting paid for this. Me, jealous? Hardly. I know what corp attorneys make as I not only work with them regularly, but doing what I do exposes one to all sorts of interesting details. Hell, I might even know this guy from some C's or B's game up in a company suite. Who knows? As for what he can afford, I'm good there too. There's only 2% of Americans that earn more than I do....if he's one of them, I'm happy for him, but I find envy to be the scourge of the poor and/or democrats, neither of which applies to me.

Not worried about his boat either. Perfectly happy with my (also 4 year old) boat. Suits my family just fine and raises fish with the best of them. Thanks for inquiring though.

Actually I think switzerland and israel are the most armed countries in the world per person.Just sayin..

Actually I think switzerland and israel are the most armed countries in the world per person.Just sayin..

No offense, but I thought the easter bunny broke into my house and hid eggs with candy in them until I was presented with some factual evidence that indicated otherwise. Did you read the reuters article? If so, do you just not believe it?

EPOs stopped us last year. They did the full inspection plus extra. They gave me the third degree because my boat is registered in RI (where I own a house and the boat stays for 8 months out of the year). The EPO woman was extremely rude and discourteous. Last week, the CG boarded us in Cape Cod Bay. Two came aboard. One did a full inspection while the other entered info into a laptop. They were very polite and professional. There was quite a contrast between the way the CG handled the situation and how the EPOs handled things. I hope that my next boarding is by the CG and not the EPOs. IMO, when boarding a boat, there's no need to be downright rude and disrespectful to boat owners, especially when the boat occupants appear to be typical weekend warriors. In my case. both times my boat had one non-drinking adult and a couple of 13 year old kids on board.

There is a right way and wrong way to do things, and in my opinion I agree with Blue33 that this was the wrong way. That being said, I agree with Freeportuna that some guys in "Edgartown" apparel on a nice boat while in Boston Harbor might not have proper fishing licenses. Which goes to AMarshall's point about these agencies and their over the top government spending. They have to use it or lose it in terms of State and Federal money, but with tightening financial belts and closer inspection by a diligent media, now that they have these $400K SeaArk Marine patrol boats there has to be an increase in activity... namely routine stops, inspections and of course fines!

That doesn't mean they can't be nice while doing it.

Lastly, I don't see any reason why the environmental police or any other marine based LEO in or around Boston Harbor has to be aggressive or displaying force of any kind unless the situation calls for it. Pulling up to some recreational fishermen to inspect their permits is not a proper situation. First off, where is the suspect boat going to go where it can outrun the radio, helicopter and squad cars? Second, how do you safely operate a firearm in accordance with state guidlines in a 3ft chop on a 27 ft powerboat? No where and you can't. Needless aggressive or threatening behavior only serves to increase tension and miscommunication, most importantly.

Blue33, you should write a letter to Colonel Aaron Gross, Massachusetts Environmetal Police Director, documenting the entire encounter. It's a small thing, but it may help to get everything off your chest and you might be surprised by a response. If more people took the time to voice their concerns about incedents like this, it would help eliminate the less professional members of an otherwise diligent and competitent group of men and women who protect and serve.

I am glad im not in Boston anymore! sound like the Police state has taken full effect up there! I was boarded once in Boston, the followed us to the dock, checked a few of the flounder we had and moved on. no attitude, no intimidation, just did their job and were on their way.

I am now in Buzzards Bay and had 1 encounter, he did not board, asked to see my life jackets, asked if I was Comm or Rec. (closed day so of course I was Rec) asked how many fish and went on his way. Did not even check mine, or the other 2 guys on board for fishing licenses.
Like I said, keep your vessel neat and organized, dont mouth off and dont break the law.....and if you do break the law dont get caught or be willing to pay the consequence

Agreed on the time, "bro". I'm actually working now, so it's not that big a deal. After all, I'm getting paid for this. Me, jealous? Hardly. I know what corp attorneys make as I not only work with them regularly, but doing what I do exposes one to all sorts of interesting details. Hell, I might even know this guy from some C's or B's game up in a company suite. Who knows? As for what he can afford, I'm good there too. There's only 2% of Americans that earn more than I do....if he's one of them, I'm happy for him, but I find envy to be the scourge of the poor and/or democrats, neither of which applies to me.

Not worried about his boat either. Perfectly happy with my (also 4 year old) boat. Suits my family just fine and raises fish with the best of them. Thanks for inquiring though.


So if you are like me, "a yuppie", then why all the LEO talk then. Are you a wannabe cop? If we're cool in the corp box at the game then why are you up my a$$ on this forum.

There is a right way and wrong way to do things, and in my opinion I agree with Blue33 that this was the wrong way. That being said, I agree with Freeportuna that some guys in "Edgartown" apparel on a nice boat while in Boston Harbor might not have proper fishing licenses. Which goes to AMarshall's point about these agencies and their over the top government spending. They have to use it or lose it in terms of State and Federal money, but with tightening financial belts and closer inspection by a diligent media, now that they have these $400K SeaArk Marine patrol boats there has to be an increase in activity... namely routine stops, inspections and of course fines!

That doesn't mean they can't be nice while doing it.

Lastly, I don't see any reason why the environmental police or any other marine based LEO in or around Boston Harbor has to be aggressive or displaying force of any kind unless the situation calls for it. Pulling up to some recreational fishermen to inspect their permits is not a proper situation. First off, where is the suspect boat going to go where it can outrun the radio, helicopter and squad cars? Second, how do you safely operate a firearm in accordance with state guidlines in a 3ft chop on a 27 ft powerboat? No where and you can't. Needless aggressive or threatening behavior only serves to increase tension and miscommunication, most importantly.

Blue33, you should write a letter to Colonel Aaron Gross, Massachusetts Environmetal Police Director, documenting the entire encounter. It's a small thing, but it may help to get everything off your chest and you might be surprised by a response. If more people took the time to voice their concerns about incedents like this, it would help eliminate the less professional members of an otherwise diligent and competitent group of men and women who protect and serve.

This is what I was thinking about doing. My only concerns are: 1) will this make me a target for these guys; and 2) do I really want to get someone in trouble. Just venting about it in a forum has given me a few laughs and it probably as far as I'll take it.

I have been boarded by the CG in the past and they have always been professional. Also, I always chat with the local harbormasters when I see them on the water. These EP's guys were just out there with something to prove.

This is what I was thinking about doing. My only concerns are: 1) will this make me a target for these guys; and 2) do I really want to get someone in trouble. Just venting about it in a forum has given me a few laughs and it probably as far as I'll take it.

I have been boarded by the CG in the past and they have always been professional. Also, I always chat with the local harbormasters when I see them on the water. These EP's guys were just out there with something to prove.

It's entirely up to you, of course. I've come on here a couple of times to just vent, myself. Of course, I've also been so irate over a particular incendent I reported it with every shread of detail I wrote down and could recall. This was to the USCG and not the MEP, but I was given a phone call and letter back in response. It was nice to know it meant something. And no, I never have had a reprisal.

No offense, but I thought the easter bunny broke into my house and hid eggs with candy in them until I was presented with some factual evidence that indicated otherwise. Did you read the reuters article? If so, do you just not believe it?

none taken,oops

So if you are like me, "a yuppie", then why all the LEO talk then. Are you a wannabe cop? If we're cool in the corp box at the game then why are you up my a$$ on this forum.

Yeah, that's it. I'm a wannabe cop. You gleaned that from the fact that I have an intolerance for whiny, spineless, anonymous crybabies.

You got me.

Anyway...do tell. Did you just throw your undies out that day, or are you gonna try to get the stains out?

Yeah, that's it. I'm a wannabe cop. You gleaned that from the fact that I have an intolerance for whiny, spineless, anonymous crybabies.

You got me.

Anyway...do tell. Did you just throw your undies out that day, or are you gonna try to get the stains out?

I seem to have struck a nerve so I must be close.

We would never be in the same corp box at a B's game b/c I wouldn't give a DB like you a ticket.

I also find it hard to believe that you have a family b/c you act like a 5 year old. I feel sorry for your wife and kids.

Yeah, that's it. I'm a wannabe cop. You gleaned that from the fact that I have an intolerance for whiny, spineless, anonymous crybabies.

You got me.

Anyway...do tell. Did you just throw your undies out that day, or are you gonna try to get the stains out?

"Grandma - what big internet muscles you have!"
"The better to make myself feel important, my dear"

Anyone know about the 2 guys the Coast Guard brought in to the dock off Chatham in handcuffs on Thursday afternoon?

I seem to have struck a nerve so I must be close.

We would never be in the same corp box at a B's game b/c I wouldn't give a DB like you a ticket.

I also find it hard to believe that you have a family b/c you act like a 5 year old. I feel sorry for your wife and kids.

Is that your goal now? Wow...that's cool. If it helps or makes you feel better, most whiny little pu$$ies strike a nerve with me, so you may have already achieved your "goal".

As for you giving me tickets...no worries mate. We both know I get them from your boss.

There is an old saying that goes something like, only YOU control your emotions.

Just like one has to have a thick skin to be a part of an internet forum, you have to take everything, the good and the bad out there on the water. I'm one that knows, what has to be done has to be done and I'm ok with it whether it is right or wrong, I comply and obey.

I can't help but to think that when it comes down to it, and I have been stopped/checked/boarded 3-4 times, I really don't care what attitude any LEO/CG/EPO has AT ALL. Don't care a bit. They can draw their guns, point the .50 cal at my 8 month old daughters head and rack the slide. They ask questions, I give answers. They say fetch, I go and retrieve.

I'm legal and have no worries. They do their job, keep me safe, rescue me, I'm out recreating.

Funny, guys in khaki's and golf shirts, fishing. Now I know why MA went to a saltwater fishing license.

"Grandma - what big internet muscles you have!"
"The better to make myself feel important, my dear"

Huh? Typically the "internet tough guy" is brought out when someone says "let's meet up" or some crap like that. How, exactly, are you using it here?

There is an old saying that goes something like, only YOU control your emotions.

Just like one has to have a thick skin to be a part of an internet forum, you have to take everything, the good and the bad.

I can't help but to think that when it comes down to it, and I have been stopped/checked/boarded 3-4 times, I really don't care what attitude any LEO/CG/EPO has AT ALL. Don't care a bit. They can draw their guns, point the .50 cal at my 8 month old daughters head and rack the slide. They ask questions, I give answers. They say fetch, I go and retrieve.

I'm legal and have no worries. They do their job, keep me safe, rescue me, I'm out recreating.

Funny, guys in khaki's and golf shirts, fishing. Now I know why MA went to a saltwater fishing license.

Be careful. You may draw the ire of some folks around here with talk like that!

At what point does the name calling get someone sent to sleep away camp for a while? This thread is useless.

Jzima, not matter what they say about you, I'm still in envy over your Sea Hunt....lol

Jzima, not matter what they say about you, I'm still in envy over your Sea Hunt....lol

Anytime you wanna make the ride up 6 to go out, let me know. We can look for a snotty day so you can see how she handles, but your wife won't be happy when you drive straight to Eagle afterwards! In fact, I might have room Saturday morning out of Saquatucket. Tuna bite seems like even a fool like me might get lucky....

At what point does the name calling get someone sent to sleep away camp for a while? This thread is useless.

Not sure who you're referring to, but if the Mods end up sniffing around, I'm okay with being called "jizman" solely based on its terrific original qualities, and DB...well, coming from a guy in a polo shirt fishing...that's just plain funny particularly if the "wind" blew his collar up.

Wife and kids part...a little out of bounds, but you won't see me whining to anyone about it.

Be careful. You may draw the ire of some folks around here with talk like that!


I sure as hell ain't letting some guys with a hand over their sidearms get me all worked up and scared, thinking they might shoot me or if they think or even treat me like a criminal.

The officers of the law can be young, old, black, white-whatever.

I'm having a great time before I see them and I sure as hell am going to have a great time after they leave.

"They can draw their guns, point the .50 cal at my 8 month old daughters head and rack the slide"

Sorry that is something I would definitely care about, you point a gun at someone be prepared to use it . Point a gun at MY child we both get shot.

Attitudes and power play is one thing, threat of physical harm or death to myself or family for using my boat and it's war.

Again, don't give em a reason to be dicks and they usually aren't.

"They can draw their guns, point the .50 cal at my 8 month old daughters head and rack the slide"

Sorry that is something I would definitely care about, you point a gun at someone be prepared to use it . Point a gun at MY child we both get shot.

Attitudes and power play is one thing, threat of physical harm or death to myself or family for using my boat and it's war.

Again, don't give em a reason to be dicks and they usually aren't.


I know what you mean CMEBoston, like anyone of those guys/gals would ever need to draw down on anyone in my boat for any reason, it just would not happen but a hand over a holstered weapon is not really going to intimidate me like it does others. Shoot, I see LEO all the time and that is just where they always rest their hand, that is a habit/mannerism of theirs and so be it.

Many don't realize what one has to do to keep ones forearms so far out to the sides with all the crap on the belts/guns/stuff, that the sidearm is just an extension of ones hip, that is all.

I agree, being nice gets nice. I've always had good experiences with all the guys/gals that have taken some time out of my days.

Hand on holstered gun is way different than racking a trained .

May I remind everyone the task at Hand, that we pay for is to protect us not intimidate and oppress us.

What tolerate you deserve.

It's over Johnny.....let it go enough said here... go fishin
thread going to sht.
" just walk away and you will not be harmed "
Best. JW

No offense jzima, but when was the last time you had a visit with the company phsych?

That is just over the top. Really. Yes, LE is a dangerous job, but hands on guns isn't called for 100% of the time. That isn't even the norm for a traffic stop.

You need some sensitivity training. Either that or a new job.

Just sayin.

It's over Johnny.....let it go enough said here... go fishin
thread going to sht.
" just walk away and you will not be harmed "
Best. JW

Like a train wreck though, can't look away!

Get yourself an AIS transmitter, I have never been boarded, ever.

You WILL be boarded NOW!!! :grin: Shoulda kept your mouth shut!!


I hate getting sucked into these internet arguments but here I go. I am in the business of teachng defensive tactics, hand to hand combat and survival mostly federal agencies, prison guards, military, private security contractors, etc but sometimes I do local or state agencies. Usually they get some grant so they have me come in and try to teach their guys some stuff. I'm close to this industry and I have very little tolerance for small town cops whith a hero complex. I respect the people, usually they are perfectly nice, but the the heroic crap has to stop.

Spare me the "they take their lives in their hands" bit. I've met hundreds of small town guys who have never, not once, had to draw their weapon. Yes, they take their lives in their hands, but so to commercial fishermen, bank tellers, tow truck drivers, miners etc. I deal with real life, highly trained killers every day and they have way less ego than most of the local and county guys I deal with.

As for the U.S. being the most armed country in the world or whatever jzima said, I am guessing you have never done any time in Pakistan, Somolia, Iraq, Afganastan, Lebanon, Ethopia, etc. I have been to all those places and trust me, they have WAY more guns than us and a whole lot less reluctant to use them.

Sorry for the rant. Being in the the business and picking up on the tone of jzima's comments struck a nerve with me.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: Well said!! I for one think the 5-oh have been WAY out of line lately. Stupidly, I'm a law abiding and tax paying citizen, still trying to figure out why?? But I see more and more the last few years, COPS in particular making simple situations WORSE. Instead of diffusing a simple situation by separating people or something, they get everyone all riled up and in hissy-fits and then end up with bigger out of control situations and then arrest somebody... I see this ALL the time now. Cops in general these days seem to have no real training, or understanding of what there real job is. The job is to "make Peace", not insight problems so they can be a hero and arrest somebody!

More often than not, we have 4 or 5 thirty something white males which on the water is akin to having 4 or 5 burqas on an airplane.

:rofl: :rofl:

Actually I think switzerland and israel are the most armed countries in the world per person.Just sayin..

I don't think so!! I beleive "the Bronx" is the most heavily armed "country" in the world!! :grin:

No offense jzima, but when was the last time you had a visit with the company phsych?

That is just over the top. Really. Yes, LE is a dangerous job, but hands on guns isn't called for 100% of the time. That isn't even the norm for a traffic stop.

You need some sensitivity training. Either that or a new job.

Just sayin.

:thumbsup:

Birdman makes a good point. So many times I have seen rough situations made SO MUCH worse by over reacting authorities. I was watching a riot in Pakistan once and a bunch of guys were burning a pile of tires & trash in the street. I asked a police office, dressed in full riot gear, when are you guys going in? He just said "we're not unless they go after innocent people or property" I asked why that is. He just said that if they let the people riot they will eventually get bored and go home. If the police get jump in its like throwing gas on the fire and they will burn the town to the ground.

Later on I was training some guards for a famous singer. The singer himself came by and said he wanted his guys to learn this system because he has had many more problems with over reacting security guards than he has ever had with rowdy fans. (I teach a peaceful, non-violent method of restraint that never involves striking a person)

There is a serious problem in law enforcement now. The entire mentality has changed. The focus is no longer on serving the public. It is on creating work, justifying budgets and increasing budgets and authority. Honestly, I blame some of it on Tazer and pepper spray. Back in the "old days" both the cop and the civilian had some skin in the game. If the cop can't solve the problem peacefully they had to fight and that can get rough fast. Believe me, local cops are the most out of shape, out of training guys I come across in this business. Pepper spray and tazers took the incentive to solve the problem peacefully away.

Untill the tax payers - who DO pay the police - demand some change, this will continue. To see this in action, look into Jamestown R.I. There is a serious citizens movement trying to change the local PD back to a time when they were there to help and serve people, not just write tickets and justify O.T. They are, after all, public servants.

Thank you Rio_01!

At some point, some poor Dentist's kid is going to be cut in half by an automatic weapon because someone with a badge was too afraid of their own shadow to sit a situation out.

There is nothing more dangerous than a scared finger on a trigger.

Almost all of the stops on the water are simply safety and compliance checks. The boat crews aren't behaving aggressively, and they aren't doing anything that would create probable cause on land, so they should be approached with a non threatening posture until the situation proves differently.

It's one of the reasons the posse comatadis act was passed. Citizens shouldn't policed by soildiers. It has proven to be a disater in every society it was tried.

You know this thread has been quite entertaining. I've been boarded many times in the past, 2 times this year by EP. Never a problem, never any disrespect. What I don't get, from the OP is, what is the issue? Did they write you a ticket? Did they pull their guns on you? Did their boat damage yours? Or is it that they didn't show you the respect you deserve being a lawyer. Yes you did throw that out right away plus your sky box and the poloshirt platform you fish from. You were givin the solution to the problem if, infact there was some sort of violation by EP. You stated something like "I don't want to be a target". Let me clue you in on something. If no paper is written, If the boats didn't hit, no one was arrested, they don't even know who you are. Unless you did something memorable you're nothing but a ck mark on a daily log. Try not to think so much of yourself. Remember, lawyers like cops are not very well liked until one needs one. Just my 2 cents from one of the little guys who take friends not clients on his boat.

You know this thread has been quite entertaining. I've been boarded many times in the past, 2 times this year by EP. Never a problem, never any disrespect. What I don't get, from the OP is, what is the issue? Did they write you a ticket? Did they pull their guns on you? Did their boat damage yours? Or is it that they didn't show you the respect you deserve being a lawyer. Yes you did throw that out right away plus your sky box and the poloshirt platform you fish from. You were givin the solution to the problem if, infact there was some sort of violation by EP. You stated something like "I don't want to be a target". Let me clue you in on something. If no paper is written, If the boats didn't hit, no one was arrested, they don't even know who you are. Unless you did something memorable you're nothing but a ck mark on a daily log. Try not to think so much of yourself. Remember, lawyers like cops are not very well liked until one needs one. Just my 2 cents from one of the little guys who take friends not clients on his boat.

:thumbsup:

No offense jzima, but when was the last time you had a visit with the company phsych?

That is just over the top. Really. Yes, LE is a dangerous job, but hands on guns isn't called for 100% of the time. That isn't even the norm for a traffic stop.

You need some sensitivity training. Either that or a new job.

Just sayin.

None taken, but where did I say that hands on guns is called for 100% of the time? Are you insinuating that from my "consistent with a traffic stop" comment? If so, don't do that. I'm purty good with this whole talkin thing, so if I meant to say 100% of the time, I'd have said that.

Seriously, why do people like you do that? You know, ascribe something I didn't say to me just so you can chime in? It's something I'll truly never understand. It's akin to me saying "gerg, no offense, but saying the sky is green is stupid, everyone knows its blue". You never said the sky was green, did you?

Regarding the hand on the sidearms deal...
I do have an issue with that. It is a threat against my personal safety as a law abiding citizen of a free nation.
The "law enforcement" officers of this nation have plenty of leeway dealing with the public, hence gun control laws that limit legal access to legal firearms, by law abiding citizens.

You don't succeed fighting crime by criminalizing law abiding citizens.

Traffic violations are treated as a criminal offense versus the civil infraction they really are.

Law enforcement would have you believe of numerous deaths yearly in the line of duty, most of those happen to be vehicular accidents.

Don't treat me like a criminal until I give you reason to.

According to the killie police, if you are fishing or hunting then they have reason to suspect your commiting a crime.

Suspect to me? Why does it matter? If you must know...wear a bathing suit and a tattered tee or something along those lines. On snotty days, maybe some wet gear. But I stand by what I said...if I see golfer looking guys fishing in a boat, I'm not thinking they are experienced fishermen. Same applies to golfing. If I see jorts and a tank top on the course, I'm not thinking they are good golfers either.

Profiling works. Period.


real fisherman don't play golf

Anytime you wanna make the ride up 6 to go out, let me know. We can look for a snotty day so you can see how she handles, but your wife won't be happy when you drive straight to Eagle afterwards! In fact, I might have room Saturday morning out of Saquatucket. Tuna bite seems like even a fool like me might get lucky....

nice, now I know who/what to look for. My guess is you are about 5' tall and keep your right hand tucked in your jacket, but I'll confirm on sat.

real fisherman don't play golf


Actually some 52 week a year commercial fishermen I know are very good golfers and play regularly.

According to the killie police, if you are fishing or hunting then they have reason to suspect your commiting a crime.

Funny...I always say that if you teach a kid to hunt or fish, then he won't be out mugging old ladies...silly me!:)

I think the very root of the problem is that there are so few fish nowadays, the Government thought it will be a good idea to institute a new Saltwater Fishing License so now recreational fisherman can now be asked to show a license to fish from a boat in the ocean and then whoever enforces the law now has Carte Blanche to now identify everyone on board and fishing.

That and there are lots of bad guys that like to go fishing with no licenses and try to hide in plain sight in golf shirts and khaki shorts, and maybe Crocs . . .

EP's have a job to do just like we are expected to perform at our job!! They protect the fisheries, insure boaters are safe, and acting safe OTW, and bring awareness to us as boaters of potential danger, problems or situations.......

I have been boarded many times in both RI and MA without an issue or finding. My boys (12 & 14) always wear a life jacket no matter how much they piss and moan, I don't take undersize fish or more fish then I can eat and share with friends and family. And for me beers taste better at the dock if on my boat, and if I'm running my boat

Not to say some EP's don't have a chip on their shoulder and get "the power thing" going at times however they have the job and should be treated with respect OTW, in the woods ect....

Lawyers.....nothing good could come out of me expressing my feelings about them but will say (no offense I don't know you) the majority I have had dealings with would rather look at ways to create issues then resolve issues

nice, now I know who/what to look for. My guess is you are about 5' tall and keep your right hand tucked in your jacket, but I'll confirm on sat.

Wait...weren't you the one calling me the internet tough guy? If you're looking for me, just ask me where I'll be as I'll happily tell you. I have a Carolina blue 24' Sea Hunt too. Swing by and say hello, although to be fair, I might run out of Pamet. PM me Friday night and I'll let you know.

Birdman makes a good point. So many times I have seen rough situations made SO MUCH worse by over reacting authorities. I was watching a riot in Pakistan once and a bunch of guys were burning a pile of tires & trash in the street. I asked a police office, dressed in full riot gear, when are you guys going in? He just said "we're not unless they go after innocent people or property" I asked why that is. He just said that if they let the people riot they will eventually get bored and go home. If the police get jump in its like throwing gas on the fire and they will burn the town to the ground.

Later on I was training some guards for a famous singer. The singer himself came by and said he wanted his guys to learn this system because he has had many more problems with over reacting security guards than he has ever had with rowdy fans. (I teach a peaceful, non-violent method of restraint that never involves striking a person)

There is a serious problem in law enforcement now. The entire mentality has changed. The focus is no longer on serving the public. It is on creating work, justifying budgets and increasing budgets and authority. Honestly, I blame some of it on Tazer and pepper spray. Back in the "old days" both the cop and the civilian had some skin in the game. If the cop can't solve the problem peacefully they had to fight and that can get rough fast. Believe me, local cops are the most out of shape, out of training guys I come across in this business. Pepper spray and tazers took the incentive to solve the problem peacefully away.

Untill the tax payers - who DO pay the police - demand some change, this will continue. To see this in action, look into Jamestown R.I. There is a serious citizens movement trying to change the local PD back to a time when they were there to help and serve people, not just write tickets and justify O.T. They are, after all, public servants.

And now to completely derail this thread...you can thank public sector unions for all the ills you've described above re: local law enforcement.

bottom line is this. you will encounter both respectful/professional "leo's", and on the flip side those that have no business handling a boat or interacting with the public while armed with a weapon. Either way your only recourse is to be polite and provide them with whatever info they need. Drown them with politeness...it makes it more difficult for them to be a-holes.

If you have an issue with one individual, note their badge number and send in a complaint. If one a-hole LEO gets enough complaints he will be reprimanded. Personally, I get boarded almost every year and have never had an issue. Maybe the cape cod personnel are more laid back than boston officers. No doubt though the CG has been more organized and professional than harbormasters and environmental police in my experience.

You know this thread has been quite entertaining. I've been boarded many times in the past, 2 times this year by EP. Never a problem, never any disrespect. What I don't get, from the OP is, what is the issue? Did they write you a ticket? Did they pull their guns on you? Did their boat damage yours? Or is it that they didn't show you the respect you deserve being a lawyer. Yes you did throw that out right away plus your sky box and the poloshirt platform you fish from. You were givin the solution to the problem if, infact there was some sort of violation by EP. You stated something like "I don't want to be a target". Let me clue you in on something. If no paper is written, If the boats didn't hit, no one was arrested, they don't even know who you are. Unless you did something memorable you're nothing but a ck mark on a daily log. Try not to think so much of yourself. Remember, lawyers like cops are not very well liked until one needs one. Just my 2 cents from one of the little guys who take friends not clients on his boat.

The main reason for the post was to ask what function do these guys serve. They checked one out of 4 licenses, never asked to see my fish (we had just brought one in before they came over), made people on my boat fell uncomfortable and were jerks to us. My understanding is that these guys are out there to enforce "environmental" laws not harass recreational boating/fishing.

I expected better lawyer jokes from this forum.

I expected better lawyer jokes from this forum.

Look harder! There are tons of them out there!

Look harder! There are tons of them out there!

This is also true for jokes about your mom.

Birdman makes a good point. So many times I have seen rough situations made SO MUCH worse by over reacting authorities. I was watching a riot in Pakistan once and a bunch of guys were burning a pile of tires & trash in the street. I asked a police office, dressed in full riot gear, when are you guys going in? He just said "we're not unless they go after innocent people or property" I asked why that is. He just said that if they let the people riot they will eventually get bored and go home. If the police get jump in its like throwing gas on the fire and they will burn the town to the ground.

Later on I was training some guards for a famous singer. The singer himself came by and said he wanted his guys to learn this system because he has had many more problems with over reacting security guards than he has ever had with rowdy fans. (I teach a peaceful, non-violent method of restraint that never involves striking a person)

There is a serious problem in law enforcement now. The entire mentality has changed. The focus is no longer on serving the public. It is on creating work, justifying budgets and increasing budgets and authority. Honestly, I blame some of it on Tazer and pepper spray. Back in the "old days" both the cop and the civilian had some skin in the game. If the cop can't solve the problem peacefully they had to fight and that can get rough fast. Believe me, local cops are the most out of shape, out of training guys I come across in this business. Pepper spray and tazers took the incentive to solve the problem peacefully away.

Untill the tax payers - who DO pay the police - demand some change, this will continue. To see this in action, look into Jamestown R.I. There is a serious citizens movement trying to change the local PD back to a time when they were there to help and serve people, not just write tickets and justify O.T. They are, after all, public servants.


:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:


Bullseye!! Personally, I think we would be better serviced if COPS had their GUNS and CARS (and trucks) removed!! They should WALK THE BEAT. Walk amongst the people liek the old days. People will know them personally, and respect them. And they will respect the people they are supposed to be serving more.

The main reason for the post was to ask what function do these guys serve. .No, it's about you looking for team mates to start a cop bashing thread. The post reeks of BRAG and RAG. Bragging about who you are and what you got. Ragging on a group that obviously intimidates you. If you and your guests were uncomfortable maybe you shouldn't be out there. Dealing with LEO on the water is part of the program.

No, it's about you looking for team mates to start a cop bashing thread. The post reeks of BRAG and RAG. Bragging about who you are and what you got. Ragging on a group that obviously intimidates you. If you and your guests were uncomfortable maybe you shouldn't be out there. Dealing with LEO on the water is part of the program.


This is so true.

I thank my lucky stars that if I have to hit my DSC distress button or the "Oh My God, We're Gonna Die-Buttons" on my PLB, that those same guys, not knowing, not giving a shit who the hell I am, are going to come running as fast as they possibly can to save me and my family, friends, or "clientele".

The rest of the time, they can treat me like a Third World AIDS carrier, I don't care. So true that dealing with it IS part of the program like it is on land.

This is so true.

I thank my lucky stars that if I have to hit my DSC distress button or the "Oh My God, We're Gonna Die-Buttons" on my PLB, that those same guys, not knowing, not giving a shit who the hell I am, are going to come running as fast as they possibly can to save me and my family, friends, or "clientele".

The rest of the time, they can treat me like a Third World AIDS carrier, I don't care. So true that dealing with it IS part of the program like it is on land.
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

No, it's about you looking for team mates to start a cop bashing thread. The post reeks of BRAG and RAG. Bragging about who you are and what you got. Ragging on a group that obviously intimidates you. If you and your guests were uncomfortable maybe you shouldn't be out there. Dealing with LEO on the water is part of the program.

i.e. we should never question the acts of an LEO, they are allowed to do whatever they want.

While on the water you have no expectation of privavcy whatsoever?

i.e. we should never question the acts of an LEO, they are allowed to do whatever they want.

While on the water you have no expectation of privavcy whatsoever?

What if you live on your boat. If you are fishing from your boat do you think the EP have the right to enter your bedroom w/o a warrant?

From what I learned in an interview/article on the MA EPO's, they are at the very TOP of the food chain so to speak. They have virtually no limit on what they can do and where they can go.

Once on the water, you are a sitting duck. GAME ON! It is just the way it is.

Come on, shoot, how frucking hard is it to be legal out there on the water?, I mean, come on!!! Be as nice as you can, do what you are told and it will be over, like prison rape.

This is also true for jokes about your mom.

Really? I mean, really? A guy who has stated I act like a 5 year old really wrote this? Is your dad gonna come beat up my dad next? I actually feel bad for you now.

What if you live on your boat. If you are fishing from your boat do you think the EP have the right to enter your bedroom w/o a warrant?

...and now you're openly having conversations with yourself?

What if you live on your boat. If you are fishing from your boat do you think the EP have the right to enter your bedroom w/o a warrant?

This is great, I hope this thread keeps on going.

blue33, if they want to go into your bedroom on the water, they will, and they will overlook your stash of porn and your mixed VHS tapes of Boner Jams 2003 and just be looking for where you hid all the short striped bass you hauled in using a Zebco 202 Classic-Combo loaded up with some factory 12 lb test, sea worms and a #3 Chesterton hook.

No warrant necessary. Land of the Free, Home of the Brave-baby!

What if you live on your boat. If you are fishing from your boat do you think the EP have the right to enter your bedroom w/o a warrant?You sure you're a lawyer and not just a wannbe? Dude your done go back to your office and start your 4th amendment discussion with your polo shirted shipmates.

Thundra ia 100% on the fact the EPO's have more power than any other LEO in the state. Just like a Maine Game Warden does up North.

We hardly ever see the EPOs on the North Shore. As a matter of fact I called them twice to file a complaint against my neighbor for continually harassing me during muzzleloader season and they never even returned my call! My local police told me "there's just not enough of them to get to you and we can't issue hunter harassment tickets"! F'ing great!

Chris

You sure you're a lawyer and not just a wannbe? Dude your done go back to your office and start your 4th amendment discussion with your polo shirted shipmates.

Be nice. He's a corporate lawyer, which means he just reads and writes contracts all day.

This thread has completely derailed.

No one is arguing there shouldn't be EPs/harbormasters (I think). The point is that they don't need $400k military attack boats.

There's nothing that a $50k center console can't accomplish that one of these government boondoggles can.

This thread has completely derailed.

No one is arguing there shouldn't be EPs/harbormasters (I think). The point is that they don't need $400k military attack boats.

There's nothing that a $50k center console can't accomplish that one of these government boondoggles can.Actually No, this thread hasn't derailed the OP came on with a story and an agenda and is now figuring out that his typing hand is much larger than his brain and experience. Sorry, call it like I read it. As to the $400K boats actually they are much cheaper. Go search "Safe Boat" That's what the're running. Oh ya, that's not a 50 cal on that posted pic of the harbor master boat it's a fire monitor for the guy who stated such.

Fella's, no one really cares about much of anything when it comes down to it. Water squirter, $401K retirement account, tax-deffered, huge dingy's with twin outboards, train derailment, Jerry Sandusky, it's all good.

Sorry thundra, just throwing chum into the water to see if tha fish will come back. It is entertaining ya know. Now if I can just get one of those engins running maybe I wont need the oars tomorrow.

Sorry thundra, just throwing chum into the water to see if tha fish will come back. It is entertaining ya know. Now if I can just get one of those engins running maybe I wont need the oars tomorrow.

Another fact that I left out, honestly b/c I didn't think that it was relevant, was that one of the guys on my boat was black. You think that had someting to do with the EP's guys behavior.

This is so true.

I thank my lucky stars that if I have to hit my DSC distress button or the "Oh My God, We're Gonna Die-Buttons" on my PLB, that those same guys, not knowing, not giving a shit who the hell I am, are going to come running as fast as they possibly can to save me and my family, friends, or "clientele".

The rest of the time, they can treat me like a Third World AIDS carrier, I don't care. So true that dealing with it IS part of the program like it is on land.


I would like to make a VERY important statement: The USCG does a GREAT job. They serve, they protect, and 99.9% of the time, they do it courteously. They risk their lives and go above and beyond to save our lives!! BRAVO!!!! I witnessed it first had 3 weeks ago. I was on my way from Martha's Vineyard to Block Island, and about 9 miles off the beach (newport area), I herd a mayday from a sailboat taking on water. Turns out, the boat was only 2 miles from me, so I turned around and ran to him and stood by with him. The CG picked up the mayday, asked me exactly where I was, and a Helo was over our heads in 5 minutes. They dropped a swimmer in the water, and got 2 cutters on scene in 30 minutes. They brought a pump onboard and dewatered the sailbat, found the issue (broken thru hull hose!) and FIXED it for him. they thanked me for help, and all was good.

What we are all complaining about, is NOT the USCG!! It's the LEO people that require some serious training, and 99.9% of the time, do a TERRIBLE job. Sorry, that is just how it is. The truth hurts!! :grin:

I would like to make a VERY important statement: The USCG does a GREAT job. They serve, they protect, and 99.9% of the time, they do it courteously. They risk their lives and go above and beyond to save our lives!! BRAVO!!!! I witnessed it first had 3 weeks ago. I was on my way from Martha's Vineyard to Block Island, and about 9 miles off the beach (newport area), I herd a mayday from a sailboat taking on water. Turns out, the boat was only 2 miles from me, so I turned around and ran to him and stood by with him. The CG picked up the mayday, asked me exactly where I was, and a Helo was over our heads in 5 minutes. They dropped a swimmer in the water, and got 2 cutters on scene in 30 minutes. They brought a pump onboard and dewatered the sailbat, found the issue (broken thru hull hose!) and FIXED it for him. they thanked me for help, and all was good.

What we are all complaining about, is NOT the USCG!! It's the LEO people that require some serious training, and 99.9% of the time, do a TERRIBLE job. Sorry, that is just how it is. The truth hurts!! :grin:


:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup: :thumbsup::thumbsup:

Another fact that I left out, honestly b/c I didn't think that it was relevant, was that one of the guys on my boat was black. You think that had someting to do with the EP's guys behavior.

Just quit while you're behind.

Blue-

You start the thread talking about being uncomfortable w/ EPO's having their hands on their sidearms...you have another post on this forum seeking to find out how many guys are carrying guns on-board. You don't know who's carrying and neither do the EPO's...hence their actions.

You ask about "expectation of privacy": you have very little (other than your private person) when you are in a public place on a public way (the waters of the Commonwealth). If you're boat is your home, good for you...Chapter 90B of MGL is enforced by all appointed harbormasters/marine patrol etc...C. 90B gives them the authority to conduct warrantless searches on all persons annd vessels within the Commonwealth. This is different than on land since it is not feasible to call a judge and have a search warrant ferried out to the scene. Another note...every boater in the state is armed and knowing such, LEO's respond the way they do. Do you have a knife within grabbing distance of where you are on the boat? It's as good as being armed.

Another side note...any violation of MGL C. 90B (all the waterways regs) is arrestable. Believe it or not - it's true. A no wake violation can constitute arrest under the statute. Having said that - there's obviously alot of discretion used. And really...because the passenger was black...lol, come on.

~Former LEO

Just quit while you're behind.

Yup

I would like to make a VERY important statement: The USCG does a GREAT job. They serve, they protect, and 99.9% of the time, they do it courteously. They risk their lives and go above and beyond to save our lives!! BRAVO!!!! I witnessed it first had 3 weeks ago. I was on my way from Martha's Vineyard to Block Island, and about 9 miles off the beach (newport area), I herd a mayday from a sailboat taking on water. Turns out, the boat was only 2 miles from me, so I turned around and ran to him and stood by with him. The CG picked up the mayday, asked me exactly where I was, and a Helo was over our heads in 5 minutes. They dropped a swimmer in the water, and got 2 cutters on scene in 30 minutes. They brought a pump onboard and dewatered the sailbat, found the issue (broken thru hull hose!) and FIXED it for him. they thanked me for help, and all was good.

What we are all complaining about, is NOT the USCG!! It's the LEO people that require some serious training, and 99.9% of the time, do a TERRIBLE job. Sorry, that is just how it is. The truth hurts!! :grin:

http://i.imgur.com/zFYZn.gif

Irish, that's just pure bs, well, at least the part about needing to be on guard because we are all armed.

There is a difference between being prepared and being aggressive. Approaching every civilian as though they are a dangerous criminal is just plain wrong.

Situational awareness does not warrant having everyone assume the position.

You think the DEP approaches every hunter like a gang banger? They don't. In most cases they don't even ask you to lay down your weapons. And that is in the middle of the woods.

You are correct in boaters having no rights to refuse boarding, but that doesn't mean they have no rights.

If a LEO is too afraid to deal with boaters, knives, and even an occasional gun on board without over reacting, they need a new profession.

As others have noted, the CG handles these things just fine. They don't freak out over it.

Irish, that's just pure bs, well, at least the part about needing to be on guard because we are all armed.

There is a difference between being prepared and being aggressive. Approaching every civilian as though they are a dangerous criminal is just plain wrong.

Situational awareness does not warrant having everyone assume the position.

You think the DEP approaches every hunter like a gang banger? They don't. In most cases they don't even ask you to lay down your weapons. And that is in the middle of the woods.

You are correct in boaters having no rights to refuse boarding, but that doesn't mean they have no rights.

If a LEO is too afraid to deal with boaters, knives, and even an occasional gun on board without over reacting, they need a new profession.

As others have noted, the CG handles these things just fine. They don't freak out over it.

X2!

Also, anyone that "brings a knife to a gun fight" has to be of diminished mental capacity! Not too easy to lunge at an "Leo" from one bobbing boat to another.

I had the environmental police come up to me on the water last week for the first time ever. We were fishing off of hull and catching flounder. Everyone on my boat had a license. We are anchored and there was a good 2-3 foot of chop.

They come up behind me full throttle in a ~28' CC. They come off a lobster boat wake and get their boat nearly vertical. I thought they were some yahoo by the way they handled their boat. Seriously, I could drive a boat better when I was 13. To say it bluntly, the way this guy was driving the boat scared me. You know the feeling when someone gets too close to you going to fast and they can't handle the boat. Then they throttle down, almost hit me, and then we see the EP writing on the side of the boat.

Then they want everyone on the boat to pull in their lines as they attempt to board us. After a bout 5 minutes of repeatedly nearly hitting my boat, they figure that boarding me isn't a good idea b/c of the chop. It is also kind of windy so we can barley hear what they are saying, so we assume they want to see our saltwater licenses (they did not have a bull horn or loudspeaker). They get close enough to grab one of our licenses and then they drop it in the water. They don't even apologize and start giving us an attitude. they ask to see my life jackets and want me to blow the horn. Then they floor it away from me and go after some other boat that is 300' away.

The whole time they are talking to us they both have one hand on their sidearms. They never checked anyone leses license and they never checked our fish (or even asked if we had any).

What function do these guys serve? Has anyone ever tried to complain about these guys before?



Since when does a Lobster Boat throw a wake big enough for a 28 foot center console boat to get nearly vertical? The Officers must have been strapped in to avoid to being thrown overboard. There must have been gear everywhere from the hatches that were thrown open

After about 5 minutes of repeatedly nearly hitting my boat, they figure that boarding me isn't a good idea b/c of the chop. It is also kind of windy so we can barley hear what they are saying, so we assume they want to see our saltwater licenses (they did not have a bull horn or loudspeaker). They get close enough to grab one of our licenses and then they drop it in the water. They don't even apologize and start giving us an attitude.

So they didn't hit your boat but got close enough to be handed a fishing license. Maybe they should have not taken the 5 minutes to position their vessel and just hit your boat? If you could barely hear what they are saying maybe they did apologize and you didn't hear it. You have been very descriptive so far but yet no mention of what exactly constitutes "giving us an attitude."

The whole time they are talking to us they both have one hand on their sidearms. They never checked anyone leses license and they never checked our fish (or even asked if we had any).

So explain this to me, how was the guy driving the boat, spinning the wheel, working the throttles and still keeping one hand on his sidearm?
Have you ever worn a gunbelt? The right hand / forearm naturally rests in the vicinity of the holster. Would you rather he hold his hands out like a Cowboy in a high noon duel. As far as the other licenses maybe they had been watching you already and knew who was fishing and how much fish you had onboard.

they ask to see my life jackets and want me to blow the horn.
What is the problem with displaying the required lifejackets and sound producing device?

What function do these guys serve?

1. They are the Marine Patrol for the Commonwealth of Massachusetts and
A. Enforce all State Marine Fisheries regulations (Commercial and Recreational)
B. Enforce all Federal Marine Fisheries regulations (Deputized by NMFS)
C. Enforce and administer all State Boating laws Chapter 90B.
D. Issue all the Mass. Boat registrations.
E. Investigate all Boat thefts.
F. Conduct Marine Search and Rescue.
F. Investigate and reconstruct all boat accidents.
G. Instruct Boating Safety Courses.
H. Provide Homeland Security Patrols for LNG's, Power Plants, VIP's etc...
I. Provide USCG mandated Marine Law Enforcement training to all other Maritime Law Enforcement Agencies in the Commonwealth, including the Coast Guard itself.

2. They are the Game Wardens and
A. Enforce all State Fish and Game regulations (Hunting,Trapping. FW fishing)
B. Enforce all Federal Fish and Game regulations (They are cross deputized by Federal Fish and Wildlife)
C. Exotic and endangered species enforcement.
D. Instruct Hunter Safety Courses.

3. They are OHV administrators and.
A. Enforce all the Rec./Snow vehicle law.
B. Investigate and reconstruct all ATV accidents.
C. Administer all ATV safety classes.
D. Register all ATV's and Snowmobiles.

4.. They are the lead Law Enforcement Agency for Rural DCR parks (The old DEM facilities).
A. Providing 911 response and Public Safety Patrols for the campgrounds, day use facilities and pools.

5. They Conduct Inland Search and Rescue for lost or fugitive persons.

6. They Investigate and prosecute hazardous waste cases, illegal dumping, etc...
7. They Investigate and prosecute Wetland violations.
8. And lastly in the performance of these duties they enforce all Massachusetts General Laws including Motor vehicle violations, drug violations, warrants, domestics, etc...

Sorry, can't agree. I'm guessing by the defensive nature of your post, you're a gov't/municipal employee. Tell me the last time an EPO risked his life on the harbor (apart from the danger they represent with their own bad boat handling). The comment about the khakis is comical. He has a legit concern with taking people out on his boat who don't want to be made uncomfortable by law enforcement posturing with firearms - they were checking fishing permits for christsakes - which, by-the-way, they couldn't effectively do.


The last time an EPO put his life on the line was when he or she signed on for their shift just like any Local, State, Transit, or any other Police agency that is sworn to enforce the law. A hand or forearm resting on a holstered weapon is not posturing.

Spare me the "they take their lives in their hands" bit. I've met hundreds of small town guys who have never, not once, had to draw their weapon. Yes, they take their lives in their hands, but so to commercial fishermen, bank tellers, tow truck drivers, miners etc. I deal with real life, highly trained killers every day and they have way less ego than most of the local and county guys I deal with.


So a Police Officer has to draw their weapon in order to put their life on the line? Commercial Fisherman, Bank Tellers, and all the other jobs listed put their lives on the line for a profit. Police Officers do it for Public Safety. So what is Real Life? The EPO's have Officers who were deployed over seas so do most Agencies. Who said anything about ego's.

As for the gun issue.I honestly dont know what to say to that except grow a pair.

Excellent advice.

Lastly, I don't see any reason why the environmental police or any other marine based LEO in or around Boston Harbor has to be aggressive or displaying force of any kind unless the situation calls for it. Pulling up to some recreational fishermen to inspect their permits is not a proper situation. First off, where is the suspect boat going to go where it can outrun the radio, helicopter and squad cars? Second, how do you safely operate a firearm in accordance with state guidlines in a 3ft chop on a 27 ft powerboat? No where and you can't. Needless aggressive or threatening behavior only serves to increase tension and miscommunication, most importantly.


So enforcing the marine fisheries regulations by inspecting a recreational fisherman's license and catch are not proper? All EPO's are trained to shoot from vehicles, Atv's and vessels even in a 3ft chop. By the way, what do you consider a calm day if a 3ft chop is rough? I agree on the needless, aggressive or threatening behavior but show me where any of that behaviour occurred.

This is what I was thinking about doing. My only concerns are: 1) will this make me a target for these guys; and 2) do I really want to get someone in trouble. Just venting about it in a forum has given me a few laughs and it probably as far as I'll take it.

I have been boarded by the CG in the past and they have always been professional. Also, I always chat with the local harbormasters when I see them on the water. These EP's guys were just out there with something to prove.

Get them in trouble for what. What did they do wrong other than pick you and your golf shirts? What did they prove?

The main reason for the post was to ask what function do these guys serve. They checked one out of 4 licenses, never asked to see my fish (we had just brought one in before they came over), made people on my boat fell uncomfortable and were jerks to us. My understanding is that these guys are out there to enforce "environmental" laws not harass recreational boating/fishing.


Wheres the harrassment?

No one is arguing there shouldn't be EPs/harbormasters (I think). The point is that they don't need $400k military attack boats.

There's nothing that a $50k center console can't accomplish that one of these government boondoggles can.


Great Idea, you go get underway with the EPO's in mid-December on that center console and let me know how you make out.


I would like to make a VERY important statement: The USCG does a GREAT job. They serve, they protect, and 99.9% of the time, they do it courteously. They risk their lives and go above and beyond to save our lives!! BRAVO!!!! I witnessed it first had 3 weeks ago. I was on my way from Martha's Vineyard to Block Island, and about 9 miles off the beach (newport area), I herd a mayday from a sailboat taking on water. Turns out, the boat was only 2 miles from me, so I turned around and ran to him and stood by with him. The CG picked up the mayday, asked me exactly where I was, and a Helo was over our heads in 5 minutes. They dropped a swimmer in the water, and got 2 cutters on scene in 30 minutes. They brought a pump onboard and dewatered the sailbat, found the issue (broken thru hull hose!) and FIXED it for him. they thanked me for help, and all was good.

What we are all complaining about, is NOT the USCG!! It's the LEO people that require some serious training, and 99.9% of the time, do a TERRIBLE job. Sorry, that is just how it is. The truth hurts!!


99.9 percent of the time? Where are your facts to back that up? Most EPO's assigned to the Coastal Districts are prior Coast Guard. Others are instructors who provide training to the Coast Guard. Unfortunately for todays Coasties with budget cuts and changes in policy, it takes a boat crew up to thirty minutes to get underway for a call. EPO's, Harbormasters, and other Police Marine Units are more often the first vessels on scene to vessel's in distress.

If a LEO is too afraid to deal with boaters, knives, and even an occasional gun on board without over reacting, they need a new profession.

As others have noted, the CG handles these things just fine. They don't freak out over it.

Who said anything about the EPO's being afraid of weapons? I don't think you have experienced the Coast Guards response to a weapon onboard. They will take the weapon, clear it and maintain custody until boarding is complete.

Another fact that I left out, honestly b/c I didn't think that it was relevant, was that one of the guys on my boat was black. You think that had someting to do with the EP's guys behavior.
Make sure you mention this point to the Colonel when you speak to him.

Birdman makes a good point. So many times I have seen rough situations made SO MUCH worse by over reacting authorities. I was watching a riot in Pakistan once and a bunch of guys were burning a pile of tires & trash in the street. I asked a police office, dressed in full riot gear, when are you guys going in? He just said "we're not unless they go after innocent people or property" I asked why that is. He just said that if they let the people riot they will eventually get bored and go home. If the police get jump in its like throwing gas on the fire and they will burn the town to the ground.

Later on I was training some guards for a famous singer. The singer himself came by and said he wanted his guys to learn this system because he has had many more problems with over reacting security guards than he has ever had with rowdy fans. (I teach a peaceful, non-violent method of restraint that never involves striking a person)

There is a serious problem in law enforcement now. The entire mentality has changed. The focus is no longer on serving the public. It is on creating work, justifying budgets and increasing budgets and authority. Honestly, I blame some of it on Tazer and pepper spray. Back in the "old days" both the cop and the civilian had some skin in the game. If the cop can't solve the problem peacefully they had to fight and that can get rough fast. Believe me, local cops are the most out of shape, out of training guys I come across in this business. Pepper spray and tazers took the incentive to solve the problem peacefully away.

Untill the tax payers - who DO pay the police - demand some change, this will continue. To see this in action, look into Jamestown R.I. There is a serious citizens movement trying to change the local PD back to a time when they were there to help and serve people, not just write tickets and justify O.T. They are, after all, public servants.

Is this a bad Will Ferrell character? Seriously? Comparing Hanna Montana's or Justin Beiber's stage security to Law Enforcement? Those that can't do, teach. Obviously somebody could not get on the job so they are now experts.

Another fact that I left out, honestly b/c I didn't think that it was relevant, was that one of the guys on my boat was black. You think that had someting to do with the EP's guys behavior.

Based on you spelling and the way you type (speak) I'd have a hard time believing your a lawyer......a lawyer would use big words that nobody can understand and makes no sense :grin:

I'm calling bullshit on this whole thread:nono:

I don't think you have experienced the Coast Guards response to a weapon onboard. They will take the weapon, clear it and maintain custody until boarding is complete.

You make too many assumptions. Clearing a weapon calmly and without drama, vs. cuffing someone or pointing a gun at them are entirely different responses.

I'm all for EP's doing compliance checks. I hate poachers. Just do it without being aggressive when there is no cause. That is exactly how the CG boardings I've witnessed are handled.

Since when does a Lobster Boat throw a wake big enough for a 28 foot center console boat to get nearly vertical? The Officers must have been strapped in to avoid to being thrown overboard. There must have been gear everywhere from the hatches that were thrown open



So they didn't hit your boat but got close enough to be handed a fishing license. Maybe they should have not taken the 5 minutes to position their vessel and just hit your boat? If you could barely hear what they are saying maybe they did apologize and you didn't hear it. You have been very descriptive so far but yet no mention of what exactly constitutes "giving us an attitude."


So explain this to me, how was the guy driving the boat, spinning the wheel, working the throttles and still keeping one hand on his sidearm?
Have you ever worn a gunbelt? The right hand / forearm naturally rests in the vicinity of the holster. Would you rather he hold his hands out like a Cowboy in a high noon duel. As far as the other licenses maybe they had been watching you already and knew who was fishing and how much fish you had onboard.


What is the problem with displaying the required lifejackets and sound producing device?



1. They are the Marine Patrol for the Commonwealth of Massachusetts and
A. Enforce all State Marine Fisheries regulations (Commercial and Recreational)
B. Enforce all Federal Marine Fisheries regulations (Deputized by NMFS)
C. Enforce and administer all State Boating laws Chapter 90B.
D. Issue all the Mass. Boat registrations.
E. Investigate all Boat thefts.
F. Conduct Marine Search and Rescue.
F. Investigate and reconstruct all boat accidents.
G. Instruct Boating Safety Courses.
H. Provide Homeland Security Patrols for LNG's, Power Plants, VIP's etc...
I. Provide USCG mandated Marine Law Enforcement training to all other Maritime Law Enforcement Agencies in the Commonwealth, including the Coast Guard itself.

2. They are the Game Wardens and
A. Enforce all State Fish and Game regulations (Hunting,Trapping. FW fishing)
B. Enforce all Federal Fish and Game regulations (They are cross deputized by Federal Fish and Wildlife)
C. Exotic and endangered species enforcement.
D. Instruct Hunter Safety Courses.

3. They are OHV administrators and.
A. Enforce all the Rec./Snow vehicle law.
B. Investigate and reconstruct all ATV accidents.
C. Administer all ATV safety classes.
D. Register all ATV's and Snowmobiles.

4.. They are the lead Law Enforcement Agency for Rural DCR parks (The old DEM facilities).
A. Providing 911 response and Public Safety Patrols for the campgrounds, day use facilities and pools.

5. They Conduct Inland Search and Rescue for lost or fugitive persons.

6. They Investigate and prosecute hazardous waste cases, illegal dumping, etc...
7. They Investigate and prosecute Wetland violations.
8. And lastly in the performance of these duties they enforce all Massachusetts General Laws including Motor vehicle violations, drug violations, warrants, domestics, etc...



The last time an EPO put his life on the line was when he or she signed on for their shift just like any Local, State, Transit, or any other Police agency that is sworn to enforce the law. A hand or forearm resting on a holstered weapon is not posturing.



So a Police Officer has to draw their weapon in order to put their life on the line? Commercial Fisherman, Bank Tellers, and all the other jobs listed put their lives on the line for a profit. Police Officers do it for Public Safety. So what is Real Life? The EPO's have Officers who were deployed over seas so do most Agencies. Who said anything about ego's.



Excellent advice.



So enforcing the marine fisheries regulations by inspecting a recreational fisherman's license and catch are not proper? All EPO's are trained to shoot from vehicles, Atv's and vessels even in a 3ft chop. By the way, what do you consider a calm day if a 3ft chop is rough? I agree on the needless, aggressive or threatening behavior but show me where any of that behaviour occurred.



Get them in trouble for what. What did they do wrong other than pick you and your golf shirts? What did they prove?



Wheres the harrassment?



Great Idea, you go get underway with the EPO's in mid-December on that center console and let me know how you make out.



99.9 percent of the time? Where are your facts to back that up? Most EPO's assigned to the Coastal Districts are prior Coast Guard. Others are instructors who provide training to the Coast Guard. Unfortunately for todays Coasties with budget cuts and changes in policy, it takes a boat crew up to thirty minutes to get underway for a call. EPO's, Harbormasters, and other Police Marine Units are more often the first vessels on scene to vessel's in distress.


Who said anything about the EPO's being afraid of weapons? I don't think you have experienced the Coast Guards response to a weapon onboard. They will take the weapon, clear it and maintain custody until boarding is complete.


Make sure you mention this point to the Colonel when you speak to him.



Is this a bad Will Ferrell character? Seriously? Comparing Hanna Montana's or Justin Beiber's stage security to Law Enforcement? Those that can't do, teach. Obviously somebody could not get on the job so they are now experts.


It was a matter of time before an EP posted.

Strong 1st post.

http://i.imgur.com/MOsPO.gif

http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/tumblr_lpq4ce9J0J1qjnfl4.gif


Every else in this thread.....

http://thechive.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/1270494423_gifki_10.gif

As a police officer for 18 years I want to offer a different point of view on the "Hands on their guns" aspect. I frequently have my right hand on my gun and my left hand on my Taser when I am talking with someone, or just on a call. The reason for this is comfort, nothing more. The gun on my right and Taser on my left widen my waistline considerably (no jokes here please!). If my arms hand down over both holsters it is unnatural and just uncomfortable. Thus placing the atop the holsters feels much more comfortable. And, firearms training for the last 18 years has hammered into my head to always have your hands ready to respond if needed. I never grip the pistol grip of my Glock mind you, my open hand simply rests atop the beack of the weapon.

I'm sure someone will certainly disagree, and I wasn't there. I'm just saying if you were to see me working you may say I have my hands on my weapons but I'm just trying to stay reasonably comfortable and ready to react if need be. Feel free to fire away now.

Pretty much all sides have been covered now...
Solution to "posturing" of "Leo" hand on hip causing civilians discomfort....
Leg holsters as standard issue!
Takes away the horribly uncomfortable and unnatural position for the "Leo" and puts the civilians mind at ease knowing that the "Leo" is not posturing to blow him away!
:-)

Most EPO's suck...I have ran into one or two that are cool guys

There are good enviornmental police and there are bad enviornmental police.I've had the pleasure and the frustration of both on many occasions.
I got boarded yesterday morning, in boston harbor, by a young gentleman in a center console. He joked about the length of my net ( asking me if I would tell him if it was longer than regulations allow) Then says " I''m just kidding you" He wanted to see in my coolers and he wanted to see a permit. That's it! VERY friendly, VERY professional, And didn't make a pain in the ass of himself. I made sure to tell this guy that "He was one of my more pleasant encounters with law enforcement". I think he appreciated the comment. NOW, why the rest of them can't act as this gentleman did is beyond me. I have been harrassed by other leo"s on "the attack boat" in the past.I would say the majority of the time though, that they have been reasonably professional (maybe it's the boat that messes with their attitude) again , like anywhere else, you have good and bad.

I have a real problem with the gun thing. I have a nice boat (4 yr old regulator) and myself and all the guys on my boat were dressed in kaki's and polo shirts.

You had your collars popped didn't you?
Nobody likes popped collars.

A Regulator and polo shirts.

I have a real problem with the gun thing. I have a nice boat (4 yr old regulator) and myself and all the guys on my boat were dressed in kaki's and polo shirts. I am a corporate lawyer

If this is not the most elitist statement I have ever heard on here I have no idea what is. So, because you have money, you are exempt? Honestly, with an attitude like that I'd be more afraid of you than any guy in a 25 year old hunk of crap. Because you, sir, are somehow deluded into thinking you are far more important than you are.

How nice and expensive your boat and clothes are have what relevance in whether or not an LEO takes an interest in you? I suspect you think you shouldn't get asked what you are doing in an empty parking lot if you are in your Beamer either right? I mean after all it's a nice new car.

Anything you said after this is completely without merit, becasue this statement is without merit. No way in HELL you are a lawyer either making arguments like that. I am with George. Bunk...

I'd probably pull over a regulator with popped collars too.

http://www.douchearchives.com/douche/1110/-douche-1318503057.jpg

I know I'm new and all but I can't sit this one out any longer. You can't be serious. Really? C'mon man.. You had your dad's boat out with some frat boy friends of yours and didn't like being treated like a regular guy right?

What happened to Blue33? Is he still over on that " Who carrying" thread or is he out clothes shopping? All kidding aside that Boats guy made some valid points. Great first post who ever he is. One thing I have noticed throughout this thread is that there are alot of one hit wonders making blanket statements on how bad they were treated by LEO's on the water but I haven't heard too many examples of what exactly the LEO did wrong.

Regarding the hand on the sidearms deal...
I do have an issue with that. It is a threat against my personal safety as a law abiding citizen of a free nation.
The "law enforcement" officers of this nation have plenty of leeway dealing with the public, hence gun control laws that limit legal access to legal firearms, by law abiding citizens.

You don't succeed fighting crime by criminalizing law abiding citizens.

Traffic violations are treated as a criminal offense versus the civil infraction they really are.

Law enforcement would have you believe of numerous deaths yearly in the line of duty, most of those happen to be vehicular accidents.

Don't treat me like a criminal until I give you reason to.

X2:thumbsup:
Sieg Heil to some of these jackbooted thugs....Here in the heart of Al Quaeda country - (West Palm Beach) they dress like Special Forces and then they stand around the Courthouse and do absolutely nothing ALL DAY! What a boring job.

Seems like the air support got called in....

These local and state PD boats are so wasteful. Where I boat it is not uncommon to see the State Troopers going full throttle east and pass the Sheriff going full throttle west. It makes me think they are not really doing anything important. That or a simple phone or radio call would saved time and fuel if you're passing eachother at full speed going opposite directions. The USCG is, from every experience I've had, excellent and professional. The local and state guys though, not so much. They are kind of a joke. One example: I saw the sheriff guys using their beautiful Parker 2501 to drag some guy in a Bayliner cruiser out of about a foot of water by hooking his anchor line to their boat and pulling full throttle straight ahead. Needless to say, it did not work.

so nobody feels left out Homeland security is buying "every" sherrifs dept these fancy attack boats, looks like they are gearing up for something, maybe taking over and retiring the Coast Guard, Marine Fisheries, and NC Wildlife, it seems to be a lot of overlapping coverage going on, gonna make for a heck of a power struggle some day.

Last year I was pulled over 20 miles out. They came out of no where... I had just released 3 wolffish and they checked my catch and permits. Visit was quick and painless.

Unless they're Feds (or were accompanied by Federal authorities), that's illegal. A state's jurisdiction ends 3 miles out from the nearest shore of that state.

Unless they're Feds (or were accompanied by Federal authorities), that's illegal. A state's jurisdiction ends 3 miles out from the nearest shore of that state.


This has been discussed before. The feds deputize local state leo's and they can operate in specific stretches of federal water.

Also, some states claim states rights out to 12 miles, not 3.

Quincy giving sight seeing tours.

http://www.patriotledger.com/topstories/x356062164/The-dual-mission-of-Quincy-s-patrol-boats

When did family members of Quincy police officers become part of Community Policing?

One thing I have noticed throughout this thread is that there are alot of one hit wonders making blanket statements on how bad they were treated by LEO's on the water but I haven't heard too many examples of what exactly the LEO did wrong.

It's starting to get like an eTec thread....:jk:;?:bashhh:

Lots of internet experts on the web. Which translates to internet warriors, which translates to posting from their parents basement, which translates to " I heard it from my cousin's babysiter's uncle's friend so it must be fact".

nice, now I know who/what to look for. My guess is you are about 5' tall and keep your right hand tucked in your jacket, but I'll confirm on sat.

Musta missed ya on Sat. Was looking forward to meeting a fellow THT'er too. What happened? Fog scare you off? It was pretty thick....

Sunday the Greenies where out is a bigger boat checking everyone and pushed me into a lobster pot while jigging.

Sunday the Greenies where out is a bigger boat checking everyone and pushed me into a lobster pot while jigging.What did they do, bump your boat?

What did they do, bump your boat?

No he must have went at him full throttle because he couldn't get his hand off his weapon.

I have a real problem with the gun thing. I have a nice boat (4 yr old regulator) and myself and all the guys on my boat were dressed in kaki's and polo shirts. I am a corporate lawyer, I had clients (other corporate lawyers) and my father (65 yr old retired Army Colonel) out fishing. Honestly, I don't know if a couple of them will go out again b/c of the gun thing. I also felt embarassed for my dad, he is used to being treated with respect. Moreover, I could lose business b/c of these nitwits. If they can't handle their boat and treat people with respect on the water they shouldn't be out there. I spend allot of money on boating and the time I have on the water is precious. The last thing I want to do is help "train" new environmental police.

Also, they came up to me. If I approached them, maybe I could see your line of reasoning. Maybe.

I am pretty sure that these guys were out of Hingham b/c I have seen the boat tied up there next to the ferry. Also, they weren't young, probably in their 40's, i.e. old enough to know better.

Well there's the problem. They didn't kiss your ass like you expect common folk to do :rofl:

they bass blocked me!

What ever happened to blue33?

What ever happened to blue33?

My guess is probably for the first time in his life he listened/read what he said and understood what a tool of an attitude he has.

What ever happened to blue33?

Sorry, I have been at brooks brothers where I picked up some burmuda pink pants. Then I went to vineyard vines and got a seafoam green polo shirt to go with it. It got all dressed up to go fishing this weekend. I even popped the collar.

Unfortunately, I didn't run into the EP guys but I did happen to run into the Hingham Harbor master. That new boat of theirs is sweet! They need that boat for all the offshore police work the Hingham Harbor master does I guess. It also gets real choppy in Hingham bay. With those twin 250 e-tecs that thing must do 60! I bet he can get from the back river to weir river in 5 minutes. I like the big mounted water gun on the front too. Is that thing for putting out fires or for crowd control at worlds end?

Welcome back. We missed you acting like a tool.

blue...here's my last bit of advice for you. Since you're a non-paying member (surprise surprise), get rid of that account and start another one. Then try to be less of a pretentious ass. For fun, come here and bash the old you.

Or, you could continue to try to poke fun at yourself so others think you're more like them. That probably won't work though.

As for what the HM needs...um, does some polo-dressed yuppie who not only can't fish but doesn't even know the rules "need" a Regulator? I'm guessing the HM got his boat for the same reason you did...because he can.

blue...here's my last bit of advice for you. Since you're a non-paying member (surprise surprise), get rid of that account and start another one. Then try to be less of a pretentious ass. For fun, come here and bash the old you.

Or, you could continue to try to poke fun at yourself so others think you're more like them. That probably won't work though.

As for what the HM needs...um, does some polo-dressed yuppie who not only can't fish but doesn't even know the rules "need" a Regulator? I'm guessing the HM got his boat for the same reason you did...because he can.

Tax $ didn't buy my boat

blue...here's my last bit of advice for you. Since you're a non-paying member (surprise surprise), get rid of that account and start another one. Then try to be less of a pretentious ass. For fun, come here and bash the old you.

Or, you could continue to try to poke fun at yourself so others think you're more like them. That probably won't work though.

As for what the HM needs...um, does some polo-dressed yuppie who not only can't fish but doesn't even know the rules "need" a Regulator? I'm guessing the HM got his boat for the same reason you did...because he can.

You sound like a union guy

You sound like a union guy

See post #96. You must be one helluva legal eagle blue. No detail gets missed, right?

Tax $ didn't buy my boat

No shit dummy. Neither did need, necessity, experience, et al. That's the point. It's mindless spending. The HM bought it because enough morons in this state vote for the dems and he could. You bought yours because you could.

He probably thought his cool new toy would demand OTW "respect". Just like you and your cool friends!

No shit dummy. Neither did need, necessity, experience, et al. That's the point. It's mindless spending. The HM bought it because enough morons in this state vote for the dems and he could. You bought yours because you could.

He probably thought his cool new toy would demand OTW "respect". Just like you and your cool friends!

Now THAT'S funny.

No shit dummy. Neither did need, necessity, experience, et al. That's the point. It's mindless spending. The HM bought it because enough morons in this state vote for the dems and he could. You bought yours because you could.

He probably thought his cool new toy would demand OTW "respect". Just like you and your cool friends!Just lost my ice tea through my nose.:thumbsup::thumbsup:

No shit dummy. Neither did need, necessity, experience, et al. That's the point. It's mindless spending. The HM bought it because enough morons in this state vote for the dems and he could. You bought yours because you could.

He probably thought his cool new toy would demand OTW "respect". Just like you and your cool friends!


:rofl: :rofl::rofl: :rofl::rofl: :rofl:

Most people don't understand what its like to be a LEO. These people put their lives on the line every day. They have no idea what they are approaching.

No offense, but if I saw 4-5 guys dressed in khakis and polo shirts on a Regulator for a day of fishing, I'd be pretty suspect. I don't know many fisherman that dress like that to go fishing, especially on snotty days.

As for you possibly losing business, that's on you. No EP officer suggested you take clients out on your boat. If you lose business because some other lawyers didn't like the Mass EP, good. You probably don't want to do business with those folks anyway.

All that said, aren't you the guy who didn't know the striper keeper regulations just a month or two ago? If so, I wouldn't worry too much about "training" anyone.


I guess my khakis and worn blue polo shirts are a big red flag. Shove it

I guess my khakis and worn blue polo shirts are a big red flag. Shove it

You're damn right they are. If it were my job to check for licenses, you bet your ass I'd check you before the guy wearing grundens over a blood stained t-shirt.

1. They are the Marine Patrol for the Commonwealth of Massachusetts and
A. Enforce all State Marine Fisheries regulations (Commercial and Recreational)
B. Enforce all Federal Marine Fisheries regulations (Deputized by NMFS)
C. Enforce and administer all State Boating laws Chapter 90B.
D. Issue all the Mass. Boat registrations.
E. Investigate all Boat thefts.
F. Conduct Marine Search and Rescue.
F. Investigate and reconstruct all boat accidents.
G. Instruct Boating Safety Courses.
H. Provide Homeland Security Patrols for LNG's, Power Plants, VIP's etc...
I. Provide USCG mandated Marine Law Enforcement training to all other Maritime Law Enforcement Agencies in the Commonwealth, including the Coast Guard itself.

2. They are the Game Wardens and
A. Enforce all State Fish and Game regulations (Hunting,Trapping. FW fishing)
B. Enforce all Federal Fish and Game regulations (They are cross deputized by Federal Fish and Wildlife)
C. Exotic and endangered species enforcement.
D. Instruct Hunter Safety Courses.

3. They are OHV administrators and.
A. Enforce all the Rec./Snow vehicle law.
B. Investigate and reconstruct all ATV accidents.
C. Administer all ATV safety classes.
D. Register all ATV's and Snowmobiles.

4.. They are the lead Law Enforcement Agency for Rural DCR parks (The old DEM facilities).
A. Providing 911 response and Public Safety Patrols for the campgrounds, day use facilities and pools.

5. They Conduct Inland Search and Rescue for lost or fugitive persons.

6. They Investigate and prosecute hazardous waste cases, illegal dumping, etc...
7. They Investigate and prosecute Wetland violations.
8. And lastly in the performance of these duties they enforce all Massachusetts General Laws including Motor vehicle violations, drug violations, warrants, domestics, etc...



:o:o:o

If that doesn't say big brother is WASTING our money, I don't know what does!!!!! Thanks for posting!!!!!


Dude, GIVE THE "We put out lives at risk everyday we go to work" bit to rest. Guys who fish for a living put their lives at risk everyday, NOT LEO's!!!! The LEO's on Long Island make over 6 figures, some close to $200k!!! They work 30 hour weeks for 20 short years, and then get a FULL RIDICULOUS PENSION!! I have several close friends who are 40-45 years old, making more money than I do from their pension alone!! While I go to work 50 hours a week in what most people consider a fairly high paying job. Yet they haven't worked in 5 years!! NONE of them EVER had their life in ANY danger while on duty. They will ALL tell you it was the easiest 20 years of work compared to anyone they know, and now they are 40 years young, and get a full pension, and can either fish for fun the rest of their life or get another job and make even more money at their leisure! It's the BIGGEST RIPOFF in the history of NY State, and Suffolk County!!

Glad you reminded me of this little tidbit of information.

I'm REALLY sick and tired of the BULL-SHAT of the LEO's putting their lives on the line. It's actually one of the safest jobs in the country. We just don't put the guys that croak of Heart attacks at their desks because of job stress on the 5 C'clock news, and hype the crap out of it, and then have 500 cops from all around attend the funeral.

LEO's have a SAFE job, GET OVER IT!!!!

:o:o:o

if that doesn't say big brother is wasting our money, i don't know what does!!!!! Thanks for posting!!!!!


Dude, give the "we put out lives at risk everyday we go to work" bit to rest. Guys who fish for a living put their lives at risk everyday, not leo's!!!! The leo's on long island make over 6 figures, some close to $200k!!! They work 30 hour weeks for 20 short years, and then get a full ridiculous pension!! I have several close friends who are 40-45 years old, making more money than i do from their pension alone!! While i go to work 50 hours a week in what most people consider a fairly high paying job. Yet they haven't worked in 5 years!! None of them ever had their life in any danger while on duty. They will all tell you it was the easiest 20 years of work compared to anyone they know, and now they are 40 years young, and get a full pension, and can either fish for fun the rest of their life or get another job and make even more money at their leisure! it's the biggest ripoff in the history of ny state, and suffolk county!!

glad you reminded me of this little tidbit of information.

I'm really sick and tired of the bull-shat of he leo's putting their lives on the line. It's actually one of the safest jobs in the country. We just don't put the guys that croak of heart attacks at their desks because of job stress on the 5 c'clock news, and hype the crap out of it, and then have 500 cops from all around attend the funeral.

Leo's have a safe job, get over it!!!!

thanks birdman!
You think ny is bad...try massachusetts!

:o:o:o

If that doesn't say big brother is WASTING our money, I don't know what does!!!!! Thanks for posting!!!!!


Dude, GIVE THE "We put out lives at risk everyday we go to work" bit to rest. Guys who fish for a living put their lives at risk everyday, NOT LEO's!!!! The LEO's on Long Island make over 6 figures, some close to $200k!!! They work 30 hour weeks for 20 short years, and then get a FULL RIDICULOUS PENSION!! I have several close friends who are 40-45 years old, making more money than I do from their pension alone!! While I go to work 50 hours a week in what most people consider a fairly high paying job. Yet they haven't worked in 5 years!! NONE of them EVER had their life in ANY danger while on duty. They will ALL tell you it was the easiest 20 years of work compared to anyone they know, and now they are 40 years young, and get a full pension, and can either fish for fun the rest of their life or get another job and make even more money at their leisure! It's the BIGGEST RIPOFF in the history of NY State, and Suffolk County!!

Glad you reminded me of this little tidbit of information.

I'm REALLY sick and tired of the BULL-SHAT of he LEO's putting their lives on the line. It's actually one of the safest jobs in the country. We just don't put the guys that croak of Heart attacks at their desks because of job stress on the 5 C'clock news, and hype the crap out of it, and then have 500 cops from all around attend the funeral.

LEO's have a SAFE job, GET OVER IT!!!!

My lawyer is defending a highway patrol cop in a divorce..he made 180k last yr handing out tickets on the LIE, after work he heads to a night job as a janitor and makes 70k at that job. He dosent want to pay his baby moma 17% to take care of his child.

thanks birdman!
You think ny is bad...try massachusetts!

Having actually lived on the East End and experienced NY DEM first hand, you should go out right now, find a MA clam cop, and hug him and thank him for the wonderful job he does.

Birdman makes a good point. So many times I have seen rough situations made SO MUCH worse by over reacting authorities. I was watching a riot in Pakistan once and a bunch of guys were burning a pile of tires & trash in the street. I asked a police office, dressed in full riot gear, when are you guys going in? He just said "we're not unless they go after innocent people or property" I asked why that is. He just said that if they let the people riot they will eventually get bored and go home. If the police get jump in its like throwing gas on the fire and they will burn the town to the ground.

Later on I was training some guards for a famous singer. The singer himself came by and said he wanted his guys to learn this system because he has had many more problems with over reacting security guards than he has ever had with rowdy fans. (I teach a peaceful, non-violent method of restraint that never involves striking a person)

There is a serious problem in law enforcement now. The entire mentality has changed. The focus is no longer on serving the public. It is on creating work, justifying budgets and increasing budgets and authority. Honestly, I blame some of it on Tazer and pepper spray. Back in the "old days" both the cop and the civilian had some skin in the game. If the cop can't solve the problem peacefully they had to fight and that can get rough fast. Believe me, local cops are the most out of shape, out of training guys I come across in this business. Pepper spray and tazers took the incentive to solve the problem peacefully away.

Untill the tax payers - who DO pay the police - demand some change, this will continue. To see this in action, look into Jamestown R.I. There is a serious citizens movement trying to change the local PD back to a time when they were there to help and serve people, not just write tickets and justify O.T. They are, after all, public servants.

great post

I've heard that the sheriff's department deputies around here are the most friendly and the least likely to write you a BS ticket. This is because the sheriff must get elected.

great post

I've heard that the sheriff's department deputies around here are the most friendly and the least likely to write you a BS ticket. This is because the sheriff must get elected.

In my small town, we have several speed traps. Almost always, if you are an adult and live in the town you get a warning every time. If you are from out of town, or a youth, BAM. Ticket.

As a result they usually get what they ask for at town meeting.

:o:o:o

If that doesn't say big brother is WASTING our money, I don't know what does!!!!! Thanks for posting!!!!!


Dude, GIVE THE "We put out lives at risk everyday we go to work" bit to rest. Guys who fish for a living put their lives at risk everyday, NOT LEO's!!!! The LEO's on Long Island make over 6 figures, some close to $200k!!! They work 30 hour weeks for 20 short years, and then get a FULL RIDICULOUS PENSION!! I have several close friends who are 40-45 years old, making more money than I do from their pension alone!! While I go to work 50 hours a week in what most people consider a fairly high paying job. Yet they haven't worked in 5 years!! NONE of them EVER had their life in ANY danger while on duty. They will ALL tell you it was the easiest 20 years of work compared to anyone they know, and now they are 40 years young, and get a full pension, and can either fish for fun the rest of their life or get another job and make even more money at their leisure! It's the BIGGEST RIPOFF in the history of NY State, and Suffolk County!!

Glad you reminded me of this little tidbit of information.

I'm REALLY sick and tired of the BULL-SHAT of he LEO's putting their lives on the line. It's actually one of the safest jobs in the country. We just don't put the guys that croak of Heart attacks at their desks because of job stress on the 5 C'clock news, and hype the crap out of it, and then have 500 cops from all around attend the funeral.

LEO's have a SAFE job, GET OVER IT!!!!

The salaries of the Massachusetts EPO's along with every other employee of the Commonwealth are posted annually by the Boston Herald. None of the Massachusetts EPO's make even close to $200,000.00. The few that make around six figures have families who forget what they look like during the summer months, because in order to earn that much requires 80 hour work weeks at details and what little overtime is available. EPO's work a schedule of eight and a half hour shifts with four days on two days off. This computes to an average work week of 40 hours. To earn a respectable pension requires a thirty year career. To have met the hiring prerequisites, of a degree and job experience, the average age of a new hire is thirty. The average age of retirement is 65.
In a study conducted by the FBI of assaults on conservation law enforcement officers, it was revealed that agents and officers enforcing environmental and natural resource laws were nine times more likely to be assaulted with a dangerous weapon when compared to traditional law enforcement officers. Mass EPO's not only enforce the environmental and natural resource laws they also enforce all Mass General Laws just as the local Police and State Police do.
But who am I to contradict your vast knowledge of the EPO's job. A knowledge based on conversations with disgruntled retirees who are self proclaimed slackers from not only a different agency but a different state all together. Obviously my direct knowledge is lacking in comparison.
So the next time an EPO swims across a tidal river to apprehend a combative felon while still in the water; in the middle of a snowstorm discovers an ongoing home invasion and holds four armed individuals at gun point for nearly twenty minutes until back up arrives; is the first officer with a long gun on scene at an active shooter in a gentlemans club and is one of three to volunteer to approach and assess viability of two victims in the middle of the street; is on a one man boat patrol and comes across a disabled motor boat with an emotionally distraught father who is holding his family hostage and attempts to assault the Officer and his own family with every piece on equipment on his boat that he can throw or swing; is treated for hypothermia after being airlifted out of the half frozen waist deep swamp with the previously lost and injured hunter who he located after a six hour search; gets underway or changes course to assist the commercial fishing vessel in distress in gale conditions in the middle of January, his or her family will rest easy knowing that you say it is a "safe job".
That being said I will sit back and await the next TV adventure show based on a desk job or the next news report of someone impersonating an accountant. (no offense to accountants)

The salaries of the Massachusetts EPO's along with every other employee of the Commonwealth are posted annually by the Boston Herald. None of the Massachusetts EPO's make even close to $200,000.00. The few that make around six figures have families who forget what they look like during the summer months, because in order to earn that much requires 80 hour work weeks at details and what little overtime is available. EPO's work a schedule of eight and a half hour shifts with four days on two days off. This computes to an average work week of 40 hours. To earn a respectable pension requires a thirty year career. To have met the hiring prerequisites, of a degree and job experience, the average age of a new hire is thirty. The average age of retirement is 65.
In a study conducted by the FBI of assaults on conservation law enforcement officers, it was revealed that agents and officers enforcing environmental and natural resource laws were nine times more likely to be assaulted with a dangerous weapon when compared to traditional law enforcement officers. Mass EPO's not only enforce the environmental and natural resource laws they also enforce all Mass General Laws just as the local Police and State Police do.
But who am I to contradict your vast knowledge of the EPO's job. A knowledge based on conversations with disgruntled retirees who are self proclaimed slackers from not only a different agency but a different state all together. Obviously my direct knowledge is lacking in comparison.
So the next time an EPO swims across a tidal river to apprehend a combative felon while still in the water; in the middle of a snowstorm discovers an ongoing home invasion and holds four armed individuals at gun point for nearly twenty minutes until back up arrives; is the first officer with a long gun on scene at an active shooter in a gentlemans club and is one of three to volunteer to approach and assess viability of two victims in the middle of the street; is on a one man boat patrol and comes across a disabled motor boat with an emotionally distraught father who is holding his family hostage and attempts to assault the Officer and his own family with every piece on equipment on his boat that he can throw or swing; is treated for hypothermia after being airlifted out of the half frozen waist deep swamp with the previously lost and injured hunter who he located after a six hour search; gets underway or changes course to assist the commercial fishing vessel in distress in gale conditions in the middle of January, his or her family will rest easy knowing that you say it is a "safe job".
That being said I will sit back and await the next TV adventure show based on a desk job or the next news report of someone impersonating an accountant. (no offense to accountants)


Isn't this what you, I mean an EPO, are paid to do.

One of my neighbors is a cop, detective, he makes >170K. He does work some crappy hours but he didn't have to go to graduate school either.

There are tons of TV shows about lawyers.

The salaries of the Massachusetts EPO's along with every other employee of the Commonwealth are posted annually by the Boston Herald. None of the Massachusetts EPO's make even close to $200,000.00. The few that make around six figures have families who forget what they look like during the summer months, because in order to earn that much requires 80 hour work weeks at details and what little overtime is available. EPO's work a schedule of eight and a half hour shifts with four days on two days off. This computes to an average work week of 40 hours. To earn a respectable pension requires a thirty year career. To have met the hiring prerequisites, of a degree and job experience, the average age of a new hire is thirty. The average age of retirement is 65.
In a study conducted by the FBI of assaults on conservation law enforcement officers, it was revealed that agents and officers enforcing environmental and natural resource laws were nine times more likely to be assaulted with a dangerous weapon when compared to traditional law enforcement officers. Mass EPO's not only enforce the environmental and natural resource laws they also enforce all Mass General Laws just as the local Police and State Police do.
But who am I to contradict your vast knowledge of the EPO's job. A knowledge based on conversations with disgruntled retirees who are self proclaimed slackers from not only a different agency but a different state all together. Obviously my direct knowledge is lacking in comparison.
So the next time an EPO swims across a tidal river to apprehend a combative felon while still in the water; in the middle of a snowstorm discovers an ongoing home invasion and holds four armed individuals at gun point for nearly twenty minutes until back up arrives; is the first officer with a long gun on scene at an active shooter in a gentlemans club and is one of three to volunteer to approach and assess viability of two victims in the middle of the street; is on a one man boat patrol and comes across a disabled motor boat with an emotionally distraught father who is holding his family hostage and attempts to assault the Officer and his own family with every piece on equipment on his boat that he can throw or swing; is treated for hypothermia after being airlifted out of the half frozen waist deep swamp with the previously lost and injured hunter who he located after a six hour search; gets underway or changes course to assist the commercial fishing vessel in distress in gale conditions in the middle of January, his or her family will rest easy knowing that you say it is a "safe job".
That being said I will sit back and await the next TV adventure show based on a desk job or the next news report of someone impersonating an accountant. (no offense to accountants)

Maybe the scope of the EP's jurisdiction should be restricted. For the EPO's safety of course.

Also, aren't most cop shows set in NYC. I never remember seeing a show about EP.

I also find it hard to believe that an EPO has a more dangerous job than a city cop, e.g. Lynn or Brockton.

Isn't this what you, I mean an EPO, are paid to do.

One of my neighbors is a cop, detective, he makes >170K. He does work some crappy hours but he didn't have to go to graduate school either.

There are tons of TV shows about lawyers.

I bet you go tell him what you think of him to his face right? Nope, I'm sure you smile and wave and try to be his friend, hoping you can drop his name to get out of a ticket or get some other benefit from knowing him. All while thinking you are so much better than him and hiding your jealously of this person who is SO beneath you making that kind of money and doing what he does.

Let me tell you this champ, anyone who has been a cop has had a close call at some point in thier career. You may think you know something about police work but you know jack. Until it's you going through the door, you'll never know what it feels like. You're a clown.

Isn't this what you, I mean an EPO, are paid to do.

One of my neighbors is a cop, detective, he makes >170K. He does work some crappy hours but he didn't have to go to graduate school either.

There are tons of TV shows about lawyers.
Maybe the scope of the EP's jurisdiction should be restricted. For the EPO's safety of course.

Also, aren't most cop shows set in NYC. I never remember seeing a show about EP.

I also find it hard to believe that an EPO has a more dangerous job than a city cop, e.g. Lynn or Brockton.

1. Yes,
2. Good for him.
3. Lawyers and usually cops investigating crimes.
4. That would be authority not jurisdiction.
5. There are TV shows on Game Wardens, Marine Patrol Officers and other Conservation Law Enforcement agencies.
5. I never said it was more dangerous than Lynn or Brockton or than a say a swat team member. The FBI study showed that as a whole, a natural resource officer compared to a traditional law enforcement officer is nine times more likely to be assaulted.

Well there's all this talk about how dangerous an EPO's job is. I could care less. If you choose to be an EPO, good for you but don't brag about it like you're special because you're not. While I'm on my rant, that goes for police and fire too. You choose to be a cop or a firefighter. Nobody forces you to do it so go do what you love and have a ball but don't end up with a complex and start calling yourself and all of your buddies "heroes" when you're not. You're just doing a job that you chose to do. Here's a link to the top ten most dangerous jobs. Notice how fishermen have the most dangerous job. I don't hear too many fishermen roaming around telling everybody how dangerous their job is or that they are heroes because they have the most dangerous job in America. Here's the link:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/the-10-most-dangerous-jobs.html

I don't hear too many fishermen roaming around telling everybody how dangerous their job is or that they are heroes because they have the most dangerous job in America.

Yeah! Its not like they've made TV shows about it or anything!


Oh wait.... :roll

1. Yes,
2. Good for him.
3. Lawyers and usually cops investigating crimes.
4. That would be authority not jurisdiction.
5. There are TV shows on Game Wardens, Marine Patrol Officers and other Conservation Law Enforcement agencies.
5. I never said it was more dangerous than Lynn or Brockton or than a say a swat team member. The FBI study showed that as a whole, a natural resource officer compared to a traditional law enforcement officer is nine times more likely to be assaulted.

Also the female attorneys in these shows are usually smoking hot, not the case in real life unfortunately. That is why I married a high school teacher.

My legal abilities have already been called into question so I'll preface this by saying that I am not a criminal or tort attorney.

If I remember correctly from law school and the MA bar exam, an assault is an apprehension of immediate physical harm. It is not a battery, i.e. physical harm. An assault is therefore subjective to the individual EPO. As a "natural resource" officer you are dealing with people that are hunting and fishing. People hunting and fishing tend to have things like knives and guns (which I am just becoming aware of myself) on them. If I were to put myself in the shoes of an EPO and I were to see a knife or a gun on a person who's privacy I am invading (probably on their day off from work) I think I would feel an assault. So it makes perfect sense that a "natural resource" officer would be 9X more likely to be assaulted b/c the people they are policing all are carrying dangerous weapons

You're damn right they are. If it were my job to check for licenses, you bet your ass I'd check you before the guy wearing grundens over a blood stained t-shirt.

I've never been searched or boarded and according to you my friends and I look suspect regularly. The OP's problem was lack of beer and women!


http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/s720x720/185884_10101373075911730_456942333_n.jpg

I've never been searched or boarded and according to you my friends and I look suspect regularly. The OP's problem was lack of beer and women!


http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/s720x720/185884_10101373075911730_456942333_n.jpg

I don't see any khakis in your pic. Bathing suits, all good. Khakis and polos, you're suspect.

After reading this entire thread, this video came to mind.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6XsIL0jIBI

My lawyer is defending a highway patrol cop in a divorce..he made 180k last yr handing out tickets on the LIE, after work he heads to a night job as a janitor and makes 70k at that job. He dosent want to pay his baby moma 17% to take care of his child.

EXACTLY. And THAT, is the norm. By the way, my wife is a CDFA (Certified Divorce Financial Analyst), you might want either the laywer or the wife in that case to contact her for help, she specializes in this type of case. ;)


In a study conducted by the FBI of assaults on conservation law enforcement officers, it was revealed that agents and officers enforcing environmental and natural resource laws were nine times more likely to be assaulted with a dangerous weapon when compared to traditional law enforcement officers.

What you left out in this so-called "study" done by people trying to justify their own rediculous saleries, is 1 in 10 million VS 9 in 10 million (9 times more likely!) is still 1000's of times more safe than the average Joe's desk job!!!! GIVE IT A REST!!! There is NOTHING risky about these jobs, NOTHING!!!


Mass EPO's not only enforce the environmental and natural resource laws they also enforce all Mass General Laws just as the local Police and State Police do.
But who am I to contradict your vast knowledge of the EPO's job. A knowledge based on conversations with disgruntled retirees who are self proclaimed slackers from not only a different agency but a different state all together. Obviously my direct knowledge is lacking in comparison.
So the next time an EPO swims across a tidal river to apprehend a combative felon while still in the water; in the middle of a snowstorm discovers an ongoing home invasion and holds four armed individuals at gun point for nearly twenty minutes until back up arrives; is the first officer with a long gun on scene at an active shooter in a gentlemans club and is one of three to volunteer to approach and assess viability of two victims in the middle of the street; is on a one man boat patrol and comes across a disabled motor boat with an emotionally distraught father who is holding his family hostage and attempts to assault the Officer and his own family with every piece on equipment on his boat that he can throw or swing; is treated for hypothermia after being airlifted out of the half frozen waist deep swamp with the previously lost and injured hunter who he located after a six hour search; gets underway or changes course to assist the commercial fishing vessel in distress in gale conditions in the middle of January, his or her family will rest easy knowing that you say it is a "safe job".
That being said I will sit back and await the next TV adventure show based on a desk job or the next news report of someone impersonating an accountant. (no offense to accountants)


First, as somebody else posted, isn't that their job??? Why would it be so surprising they actually have to put the coffee and donuts down to do it??? My friends who are retired officers, are msotly from 1 of the five burroughs in NYC(Brooklyn, Queens, Bronx...). I'm sure even you would admit that must be amoung the most "dangerous" for a LEO to work, no? Well, NONE of them ever had their life in danger, in any way. NONE OF THEM!!! They all did 20 to 35 years. Give the swimming across the stream in winter a rest. ONE guy probably did that, out of 10 million LEO's in the country. BRAVO to him!!! But that is NOT the norm and you know it.


Isn't this what you, I mean an EPO, are paid to do.

Exactly!! :thumbsup: But see, they are actually suprised when they have to actually work!! THAT is the problem. And instead of REALLY working, and diffusing situations by actually thinking a bit, they instead take the easy route and arrest, push around, and insight violence in an otherwise pretty inocuous situation. I see this time and time again. THEY NEED TRAINING, period. The cops today have no idea what they are doing, or what their real job is. They have forgotten the "Server and Protect" slogan.



One of my neighbors is a cop, detective, he makes >170K. He does work some crappy hours but he didn't have to go to graduate school either.


Yep, that is the norm. And by the way, those are not "crappy hours". First, they ussually get to choose their hours. And working eves or nights can be great, you get days or mornings off. I would LOVE to have that once in a while.


I also find it hard to believe that an EPO has a more dangerous job than a city cop, e.g. Lynn or Brockton.

From what my friends tell me, there is nothing difficult about being a city cop. They say it is more of an annoyance than anything. Cause most of the time you are baby-sitting: "Maam, you can't park there", "Excuse me sir, where is the Empire State building?", fender bender paperwork, solving an argument between Mr. Ackmed at 42nd street photo and a customer who thinks he was ripped off", stand for 8 hours blocking a street closed off for a parade...). They ALL tell me, there is nothing dangerous about it.

There are few things that are more hilarious than someone being so happy about being completely ignorant. Either you're full of shit and your "friends" don't actually exist or you've managed to befriend the fattest, laziest, desk jockey cops in the history of police work.

Bravo to you sir, you've got it all figured out :thumbsup:

Birdman,
Your responses show an overwhelming amount of ignorance. Please allow me to inform you about a few things.

First, I am an assistant harbormaster in Newport. We have a fleet of four vessels. We manage a very busy international port, with overseas crews coming in constantly, as well as cruise ships and thousands of recreational boats every season.

To say there is nothing dangerous about this job is flat out lie. We are here all night, and respond to thousands of calls every season, often that bring us out in the heavy surf off of Brenton Reef and the surrounding areas doing search and rescue missions. Early this season at midnight a sailboat was up on the rocks with a very frightened crew aboard. The USCG, of whom we work very closely with, could not bring their vessel in close enough to retrieve the passengers, so in we went with our 23' S.A.F.E. Co. vessel to safely take the passengers off the boat.

Just today I ran out to Rose Island to pull a disabled vessel out before it drifted onto the rocks. There would have been serious consequences had their not been a vessel near by to respond.

I can think of tons of calls that I have performed like this over the years. You name it, when the squalls come through and boats get demasted/break free, we are out there.

You want to know the best part? I make 11, thats right 11 dollars an hour. I am a licensed captain who runs boats for a living full time, this is my second job that I work nights at. I do no go around telling people I am a hero or busting balls, I do this job not for the money (obviously) but to help people.

In short, when you make ignorant statements that there is nothing dangerous about being in law enforcement, and that we are all overpaid, you look very ignorant.

[QUOTE=Birdman;4842460] Exactly!! :thumbsup: But see, they are actually suprised when they have to actually work!! THAT is the problem. And instead of REALLY working, and diffusing situations by actually thinking a bit, they instead take the easy route and arrest, push around, and insight violence in an otherwise pretty inocuous situation. I see this time and time again. THEY NEED TRAINING, period. The cops today have no idea what they are doing, or what their real job is. They have forgotten the "Server and Protect" slogan. QUOTE]

Tell me, where do you see this time and time again? On the news? So you see the few calls where diffusing techniques, negotiations, and verbal orders have gone to shit, and use of force is necesary, and you're an expert now? That is pure genius. What about the thousands of other situations that cops were able to resolve without using force? You don't see them so they must not be happening right? Again, pure genius.

Tell us, what is the "real" job of the police, and how should they go about doing it? I can't wait for the response. Anyone who cites "serve and protect" is always full of answers. :rofl: I always post them up on police websites for a few solid laughs.

Birdman,
Your responses show an overwhelming amount of ignorance. Please allow me to inform you about a few things.

First, I am an assistant harbormaster in Newport.

First of all, your dismissed. I have continually referred to COPS. Specifically LI and NY COPS. Not harbormasters.


We have a fleet of four vessels. We manage a very busy international port, with overseas crews coming in constantly, as well as cruise ships and thousands of recreational boats every season.

To say there is nothing dangerous about this job is flat out lie. We are here all night, and respond to thousands of calls every season, often that bring us out in the heavy surf off of Brenton Reef and the surrounding areas doing search and rescue missions. Early this season at midnight a sailboat was up on the rocks with a very frightened crew aboard. The USCG, of whom we work very closely with, could not bring their vessel in close enough to retrieve the passengers, so in we went with our 23' S.A.F.E. Co. vessel to safely take the passengers off the boat.

Just today I ran out to Rose Island to pull a disabled vessel out before it drifted onto the rocks. There would have been serious consequences had their not been a vessel near by to respond.

I can think of tons of calls that I have performed like this over the years. You name it, when the squalls come through and boats get demasted/break free, we are out there.

You want to know the best part? I make 11, thats right 11 dollars an hour. I am a licensed captain who runs boats for a living full time, this is my second job that I work nights at. I do no go around telling people I am a hero or busting balls, I do this job not for the money (obviously) but to help people.

In short, when you make ignorant statements that there is nothing dangerous about being in law enforcement, and that we are all overpaid, you look very ignorant.


But since you brought it up, being a harbor master is no more dangerous than the guy that works in a orange vest on the side of the road with a flag in his hand making $8 an hour directing traffic around road construction. Now THAT IS DANGEROUS work. How many harbor masters have been killed in the US this year? ZERO.

A flag man was killed 1 mile from house 2 weeks ago. I love facts, and I cant' stand bull-shat and media hype!! Your example is suggesting somebody ELSE was in danger on the rocks, not you. You do a very noble work, and thanks for that. But your job in general is NOT considered a dangerous one, sorry. You (as many LEO's do) are confusing noble work, with dangerous work.


Tell me, where do you see this time and time again? On the news? So you see the few calls where diffusing techniques, negotiations, and verbal orders have gone to shit, and use of force is necessary, and you're an expert now? That is pure genius. What about the thousands of other situations that cops were able to resolve without using force? You don't see them so they must not be happening right? Again, pure genius.

Where do I see them?? I see it at the mall, I saw it last weekend at the end of my road which is a dead end (GREAT story on that one!! Don't even get me started!!), I see it out on the water. I've seen it in NYC, I've seen it, and have been part of it, in Ocean Beach, NY which the Police force has since been cited for a whole bunch of incidents including and not limited to beatings of people who did no more than walk down the street with an open container. Want more examples?? That one you can google if you like. I was there for one of them, and watched it occur.


Tell us, what is the "real" job of the police, and how should they go about doing it? I can't wait for the response. Anyone who cites "serve and protect" is always full of answers. :rofl: I always post them up on police websites for a few solid laughs.

Police officers used to be called, and needs to be RENAMED back to, PEACE officers. They are supposed to keep the peace. Instead, more times than not, they incite situations to be worse than they were when they got there. I'm not saying they don't also do positive things , but unfortunately, more and more lately they do more negative things than positive. I find most of them are young and arrogant with a badge with absolutely no respect for anyone. They need TRAINING plain and simple.



There are few things that are more hilarious than someone being so happy about being completely ignorant. Either you're full of shit and your "friends" don't actually exist or you've managed to befriend the fattest, laziest, desk jockey cops in the history of police work.

Bravo to you sir, you've got it all figured out

Exactly the arrogance we are all referring too. Thanks for backing us up. Someday when your badge is removed or you retire, you'll understand all this, right now your vision is fogged with a shield.

Thanks for the laughs champ. Hey, they say ignorance is bliss and you are a fine example. What do you do for work by the way? I want to tell you all the things I KNOW about your profession, having never done it myself.

What if I told you I'm a detective?

What if I told you I'm a detective?

I'd ask to see your receipt from Hoiday Inn Express?

I'd ask to see your receipt from Hoiday Inn Express?

Glad to see your lighter side jzima!

Holy cow, is this thread really 10 pages?! Ladies and gentlemen, I suggest we table this one till, oh about February...

Holy cow, is this thread really 10 pages?! Ladies and gentlemen, I suggest we table this one till, oh about February...

Joe, you're still here? I was worried for a minute there buddy. You never "confirmed" my 5 foot height at Saquatucket that Saturday morning. Or, maybe you did and decided not to approach?

"Grandma - what big internet muscles you have!"
"The better to make myself feel important, my dear"

Flag waivers working at gitmo get about $80/hour. Good work if you can get it. Nobody gets run over (max speed is 25 mph) and you can swim all year.

Joe, you're still here? I was worried for a minute there buddy. You never "confirmed" my 5 foot height at Saquatucket that Saturday morning. Or, maybe you did and decided not to approach?

"Grandma - what big internet muscles you have!"
"The better to make myself feel important, my dear"

geeze, things must be slow at the courthouse/city hall/station house...

But since you brought it up, being a harbor master is no more dangerous than the guy that works in a orange vest on the side of the road with a flag in his hand making $8 an hour directing traffic around road construction. Now THAT IS DANGEROUS work. How many harbor masters have been killed in the US this year? ZERO.

A flag man was killed 1 mile from house 2 weeks ago. I love facts, and I cant' stand bull-shat and media hype!! Your example is suggesting somebody ELSE was in danger on the rocks, not you. You do a very noble work, and thanks for that. But your job in general is NOT considered a dangerous one, sorry. You (as many LEO's do) are confusing noble work, with dangerous work.



In MA we don't have flag men, cops get paid overtime to do this. Anytime there is construction, you need at least 1, big projects get more.

Their union is by far the strongest union in the state.

We also have the zipper lane which requires at least 1 LEO and I wouldn't be surprised if they are being paid o/t for this too.

Flag waivers working at gitmo get about $80/hour. Good work if you can get it. Nobody gets run over (max speed is 25 mph) and you can swim all year.

And FISH. Some of the best fishing in the world is off Cuba's coast. Not to mention the hot woman, great food and drink as well as the kind people. A treasure not many if us have seen yet thanks to a 50 year old stupid policy which makes it difficult (not impossible) to get there.

Oh, and this thread sucks. A few whining pantywastes here need to get together for a beer and STFU.

The real issue is why does every agency in the state need a $400k attack boat.

Clam cops
State Police
Boston Police
Harbormasters
Coast Guard

Give the Coast Guard the top of the line boats, training and gear. When I'm sinking I want the Coast Guard doing mach 3 in a jet powered cigarette boat burning 400 gallons per hour of 100 octane race gas.

When I'm enjoying a cocktail fishing for flounder with my kids, I don't need the Hingham harbormaster in a $400k attack boat with a .50 cal machine gun and night vision checking my saltwater license and giving me a portable breathalyzer.

Every agency now feels the need to justify their existence and board boats harassing people on a sunday afternoon.

The epitome of government spending out of control: The Hingham Harbormaster boat. This isn't an attack on him but government spending out of control. No offense to Ken Corson, the hingham harbormaster who's a nice guy. He would do just fine in a $50k regulator. He'd have everything he needs and cruise in style. If I was in his position and everyone else was getting one, I'd do the same and fight for mine too.

http://i854.photobucket.com/albums/ab110/amar1293/Capture-1.jpg

The list of towns now with the above boat. Some towns have multiple.

Plymouth
Duxbury
Marshfield (incoming)
Hingham
Quincy
Weymouth

To name a few.....

I'm sure I'll now have a regular boarding thanks to this post.

Not for much longer.....when we rid Washington of the current stench, the budget cutting will END stipends for these ridiculously expensive and WAY OVERKILL boat having craphole coastal towns in Electoral Rich States, since they will vote the WRONG WAY!

All those boats were financed with Fed $$$....ain't gonna be any more. FREEDOM from the ABUSE OF POWER is on the horizon!!!! :grin:

Not for much longer.....when we rid Washington of the current stench, the budget cutting will END stipends for these ridiculously expensive and WAY OVERKILL boat having craphole coastal towns in Electoral Rich States, since they will vote the WRONG WAY!

All those boats were financed with Fed $$$....ain't gonna be any more. FREEDOM from the ABUSE OF POWER is on the horizon!!!! :grin:

HOPE your right!!!! ;)

And FISH. Some of the best fishing in the world is off Cuba's coast. Not to mention the hot woman, great food and drink as well as the kind people. A treasure not many if us have seen yet thanks to a 50 year old stupid policy which makes it difficult (not impossible) to get there.

Oh, and this thread sucks. A few whining pantywastes here need to get together for a beer and STFU.

Depends on which side of the wire you are on, but I tend to agree (except for the woman part, fatigues can only so sexy, and every woman has about 100 men chasing them. ;)

HOPE your right!!!! ;)

There ain't no way homeland security funding is gonna get cut. I don't care who is in charge.

There ain't no way homeland security funding is gonna get cut. I don't care who is in charge.

I meant about the other part!!! :grin:

But the funding doesn't need cut, it needs to be appropriated PROPERLY. Bung-fuk Maine and the likes don't need a $450k patrol boat.

In MA we don't have flag men, cops get paid overtime to do this. Anytime there is construction, you need at least 1, big projects get more.

Their union is by far the strongest union in the state.

We also have the zipper lane which requires at least 1 LEO and I wouldn't be surprised if they are being paid o/t for this too.

Yeah, we're the only state in the union that still believes that LEO's are needed to direct traffic. Well, that's not entirely true. We know LEO's aren't needed, but the dems in this state need to keep their taxpayer reelection contributions coming in.

geeze, things must be slow at the courthouse/city hall/station house...

Nope, just sitting in my home office, looking out my front window, admittedly getting paid way too much, but all of it from the private sector, wondering if Joe internet toughguy was okay. I mean, I asked you to PM me for my exact location (which didn't change from what I posted) so you could "confirm" your beliefs about me. I got worried that maybe something had happened to you when I didn't get a PM, nor did you come chat me up at the dock. Hell, I was there long enough (5-5:30 setting drags and outriggers).

Good to know you're okay and it was just another case of interweb bigballsitis.

Not for much longer.....when we rid Washington of the current stench, the budget cutting will END stipends for these ridiculously expensive and WAY OVERKILL boat having craphole coastal towns in Electoral Rich States, since they will vote the WRONG WAY!

All those boats were financed with Fed $$$....ain't gonna be any more. FREEDOM from the ABUSE OF POWER is on the horizon!!!! :grin:

Ridding DC of its ills won't cure true blue Mass. They'll just ignore the voting peasants again and jack the tax rates back up to pay for their toys.

In MA we don't have flag men, cops get paid overtime to do this. Anytime there is construction, you need at least 1, big projects get more.

Their union is by far the strongest union in the state.

We also have the zipper lane which requires at least 1 LEO and I wouldn't be surprised if they are being paid o/t for this too.Not compleatly true, blue. There are flagmen working all over the state on state roads. (you probably don't see them from the back of your limo). I've seen them on rt.110 Westford and in Malden on, I think 60. You talk like you really hate cops, is there something you would like to share with the group?;?

Yeah, we're the only state in the union that still believes that LEO's are needed to direct traffic. Well, that's not entirely true. We know LEO's aren't needed, but the dems in this state need to keep their taxpayer reelection contributions coming in.



We are absolutely NOT the only state for details. NH and Maine still use them.

BTW, with union flag people on the job sites, has your utility bill gone down? I didn't think so.

We are absolutely NOT the only state for details. NH and Maine still use them.

BTW, with union flag people on the job sites, has your utility bill gone down? I didn't think so.

Didn't say that...just said we're the only state that thinks LEO's are NEEDED. In 2008, we were the last state to approve use of civilian flaggers on our roads. The LAST state. Take a quick read of this...pretty interesting.

http://necir-bu.org/flagmen-vs-police-details/

What it comes down to is the police union's power. No more, no less. And prior to this tangent, anyone on here think I was anti-LEO?

As for my utility bill going down, that's for me to care about, isn't it? Maybe if there wasn't a state sanctioned monopoly I wouldn't have to worry about such things, but as is, I'd happily pay more for my utilities if it meant less of my tax dollars were being force fed into the democratic party, but that's just me. I know lots of LEO's who are as Republican as they come, but they join the union, pay their dues knowing where the money goes, and even contribute to the local dems out of necessity. I'm all for paying LEO's more money, but don't fill me full of bullshit reasoning to do it. We've all seen cops sitting in their cars, reading the paper, chatting other cops up while on detail. Any retard can do that. I, as a taxpayer, shouldn't be forced to pay $80+ an hour for it.

Not compleatly true, blue. There are flagmen working all over the state on state roads. (you probably don't see them from the back of your limo). I've seen them on rt.110 Westford and in Malden on, I think 60. You talk like you really hate cops, is there something you would like to share with the group?;?

I take public transportation to work. I have no problems with cops.

Sorry, I think it is a waste of money to pay an LEO o/t when you can pay someone minimum wage to do the same job.

I also think using two LEO's to check $15 saltwater fishing licenses is a waste of money as well, especially when fuel/boat is taken into consideration.

Pay a cop $40/hr to stand next to the hole...or pay $40/hr to a 19 yr old high school drop out to stand next to the hole...your choice.

The state can talk all they want about $13/hr flagmen - fact is, working on state/city/municipal projects, employees need to be paid prevailing wages. Prevailing wage for a flagman is around $40/hr. Now...a company can hire their own flag man and have them work exclusively for the company. There are loopholes that enable the company to pay that flagman that $13/hr...however they bill out for the prevailing wage rate of $40/hr. As a tax payer...you pay the same.

This was a piss poor piece of legislation since the day it was passed...what...4-5 years ago. You see very few flagmen on the roads...and rightfully so.

Pay a cop $40/hr to stand next to the hole...or pay $40/hr to a 19 yr old high school drop out to stand next to the hole...your choice.

The state can talk all they want about $13/hr flagmen - fact is, working on state/city/municipal projects, employees need to be paid prevailing wages. Prevailing wage for a flagman is around $40/hr. Now...a company can hire their own flag man and have them work exclusively for the company. There are loopholes that enable the company to pay that flagman that $13/hr...however they bill out for the prevailing wage rate of $40/hr. As a tax payer...you pay the same.

This was a piss poor piece of legislation since the day it was passed...what...4-5 years ago. You see very few flagmen on the roads...and rightfully so.

Not saying you are wrong, but you are wrong. A simple read of that article proves that, unless, of course, you know more than MassDOT and the state Auditor. And FYI, if a cop is working OT, he gets the full OT wage from the taxpayers. Perhaps not through the project itself, but in the end, he gets his full wage from the taxpayers.

As for the piss poor law...you're right, but only because it essentially allowed the cops unions to hold all the power. Here are the loopholes.

Four loopholes in the state regulation have undercut the effort to replace police details with flagmen, the NECIR investigation has found.

One is the provision that requires police details on all roads where the speed limit is 45 mph which ends up being most major roads in the state.

A second loophole—each city and town police department can insist that police details be used on road jobs for “public safety” reasons. Critics say, when that happens, the Massachusetts Department of Transportation (MassDOT) representative on the job often gives police the final say.

A third loophole allows cities and towns to bypass the requirement to use flagmen on local road projects including work done by utility companies. .

A fourth loophole pertains to police union contracts. If the contract requires police details on all road jobs —which most of the state’s big city police union contracts do—flagmen are not allowed if the city or town is paying for the project.

Bottom line is this. The forced used of cops for traffic detail is one of the oldest grafts out there, and in a state where the Dems rely on the union dues that are little more than a forced reelection donation on the backs of taxpayers, it's never going to change.

"rightfully so". That's laughable, but only if one isn't allergic to facts. Before the 2008 legislation, there was no difference in the traffic fatalities between Massachusetts and non-cop flagmen using states. In fact, many of the "other" states had a lower fatality rate.

Interesting where this thread ended up...

These posts coming in all day on a Monday leads me to believe many of you are dicking off while on the clock. Complaining about cops doing nothing at a construction site while....doing nothing at work. :thumbsup:

I know I know I'll hear all of your excuses, but I'm not interested. I'm going to believe what I want to regardless of any facts or explanation!

Here's my take on flaggers / cops at work sites. Things got started this way because of lawyers and their favorite word...Liability. Sure, unions push for it nowadays, but that's not how it started.

If a company hires some mutant to hold a flag and they screw up (likely) and cause a crash. The liability is with the company. If it's a cop out there and they screw up (unlikely) the liability is on the police. Where I am there is no obligation to hire a cop, but they always do.

Besides, no one is required to obey a flag man. If I want to drive around him there's nothing anyone can do to me. Drive around a cop and it's a crime.

I take public transportation to work. I have no problems with cops.]I think you got a problem with cops because you wouldn't have started this thread if you didn'tSorry, I think it is a waste of money to pay an LEO o/t when you can pay someone minimum wage to do the same job. Isn't the same job. Flagman can't arrest, write tickets, I also think using two LEO's to check $15 saltwater fishing licenses is a waste of money as well, especially when fuel/boat is taken into consideration.License is $10 Did you get a ticket??????????:rofl:

Tell me why the Department of Justice hasn't come into the state and cleaned house??
Massachusetts is a prime representation of political power, in all its forms, over the people.

Grow Government big enough, and those that benefit from it, outnumber those that are forced to financially support it.

[QUOTE=jzima;4845945]Not saying you are wrong, but you are wrong. A simple read of that article proves that, unless, of course, you know more than MassDOT and the state Auditor. And FYI, if a cop is working OT, he gets the full OT wage from the taxpayers. Perhaps not through the project itself, but in the end, he gets his full wage from the taxpayers.
QUOTE]

I'll agree that the system is f-d up...I'll concede to that. Yes..plenty of loopholes too.
Remember 1 thing...Mass DOT and your State Auditor...ALL POLITICIANS! Tread lightly on how much credibility you give them.

I've had the benefit of working many paid construction details as a cop...and I've had my fair share of working state prevailing wage road jobs after my lay off from police work due to budget cuts. The whole system in this state is a goddamn mess. Having said that, until it is fixed (which it needs to be), I'd rrather see the cop get the $40/hr than some other guy. Do I know more about this than Mass DOT...? Let me tell you this, Mass DOT puts out there what they want you to see. They tell you what you want to hear as taxpayers.

You don't want to hear about the countless guys I've worked wiith that have an 8th grade education, can't speak english, and are hired as laboreres to "sweep the road" during construction. $48/hr...$72/hr OT...and with all the OT, pulling in over $100k/year. There's your tax $$$ at work for you.

Having said that, cops don't work details at OT rate...they work details paid at a rate established by the departments union for the community. If it's $40/hr and Verizon pulls into town to set poles...Verizon pays the town for the officer...when the check comes in, the officer gets paid. It is not salary...it is not OT...it is paid by private contractors. ANd actually, most towns actually charge an additional 10% surcharge on the officers time; this surccharge pays for the administrative work in processing the payments. OT and Details are totally different.

In the end, you pay regardless...Verizon works it into your monthly bill...you're paying. On the flip side of it, when the police contract comes up for renewals and the town can't afford to pay the annual 3% pay raises, oftentimes the unions negotiate for higher detail pay. That way, you as a tax payer avoid a Prop 2 1/2 overide on your taxes & hardship on the community...and the big $$$ contractors pick up the tab.

Believee what you want...but this is the way it 'really" is.

On a brighter note...fishing must be pretty poor for all of us since we're at each others throats over political BS..this usually starts in January. :)

On a brighter note...fishing must be pretty poor for all of us since we're at each others throats over political BS..this usually starts in January. :):thumbsup:

Speaking of fishing, how's that Salem Beverly area looking for fish Irish? Hopeing to get out tomorrow.

[QUOTE=jzima;4845945]Not saying you are wrong, but you are wrong. A simple read of that article proves that, unless, of course, you know more than MassDOT and the state Auditor. And FYI, if a cop is working OT, he gets the full OT wage from the taxpayers. Perhaps not through the project itself, but in the end, he gets his full wage from the taxpayers.
QUOTE]

I'll agree that the system is f-d up...I'll concede to that. Yes..plenty of loopholes too.
Remember 1 thing...Mass DOT and your State Auditor...ALL POLITICIANS! Tread lightly on how much credibility you give them.

I've had the benefit of working many paid construction details as a cop...and I've had my fair share of working state prevailing wage road jobs after my lay off from police work due to budget cuts. The whole system in this state is a goddamn mess. Having said that, until it is fixed (which it needs to be), I'd rrather see the cop get the $40/hr than some other guy. Do I know more about this than Mass DOT...? Let me tell you this, Mass DOT puts out there what they want you to see. They tell you what you want to hear as taxpayers.

You don't want to hear about the countless guys I've worked wiith that have an 8th grade education, can't speak english, and are hired as laboreres to "sweep the road" during construction. $48/hr...$72/hr OT...and with all the OT, pulling in over $100k/year. There's your tax $$$ at work for you.

Having said that, cops don't work details at OT rate...they work details paid at a rate established by the departments union for the community. If it's $40/hr and Verizon pulls into town to set poles...Verizon pays the town for the officer...when the check comes in, the officer gets paid. It is not salary...it is not OT...it is paid by private contractors. ANd actually, most towns actually charge an additional 10% surcharge on the officers time; this surccharge pays for the administrative work in processing the payments. OT and Details are totally different.

In the end, you pay regardless...Verizon works it into your monthly bill...you're paying. On the flip side of it, when the police contract comes up for renewals and the town can't afford to pay the annual 3% pay raises, oftentimes the unions negotiate for higher detail pay. That way, you as a tax payer avoid a Prop 2 1/2 overide on your taxes & hardship on the community...and the big $$$ contractors pick up the tab.

Believee what you want...but this is the way it 'really" is.

Good to know. I love learning new things!

As for the fishing, I'm landlocked during the week!

Irish

Glad you saved me the time to provide 100% true information to the non informed who make posts "thinking" they know what they are talking about..

On a brighter note...fishing must be pretty poor for all of us since we're at each others throats over political BS..this usually starts in January. :)

Actually, it's because the Cheatriots haven't started cheating yet (3 more weeks for that!), so we have nothing else to discuss!!! :grin:



Interesting where this thread ended up...

:grin: :rofl:

You see very few flagmen on the roads...

That is because it is soooooo dangerous!!! Told you!!!! :grin:

Irish

Glad you saved me the time to provide 100% true information to the non informed who make posts "thinking" they know what they are talking about..

Let's get one thing clear...I understand that when Verizon needs a detail, they pay for it. But what about when the state needs one? You know...like the coveted Troop E of the staties with their 5 Turnpike barracks? $10,000,000 + in OT and details alone there in a single year. Not a lot of utility work being done on the Mass Pike last I checked....

Individually, I have no problems with 99% of the cops I've met or even the ones who have cited me. That said, collectively, in other words, their union, they suck. Corruption is rampant in union ranks, whether public or private, and that too, is a fact...

CMP

Irish

Glad you saved me the time to provide 100% true information to the non informed who make posts "thinking" they know what they are talking about..

No problem. I don't fault anyone for not knowing the way it really is with all of this. The system is corrrupt and the state just continues putting lipstick on the pig of a state it is.
Quite honestly, I was taken aback a few times when I sat back and really thought about what was going on...and I was a part of it! The state doesn't want people to know what the real happenings are...it's disgusting all around.

Jzima...As for Troop E and $10M+ in OT/Details...I won't even begin to touch that one...I have absolutely no clue how that came to be...but I'm not surprised. ;?

:thumbsup:

Speaking of fishing, how's that Salem Beverly area looking for fish Irish? Hopeing to get out tomorrow.

Film...been doing the offshore thing. Inside was exceptionally slow for me this year - compared to the past few seasons - plenty of fish, just not many of any quality.

Just got in from my tour of Stellwagen today; NWC, LL's, BE's, SWC, SEC...and back...never saw a fish...didn't see any hookups.

Let's get one thing clear...I understand that when Verizon needs a detail, they pay for it. But what about when the state needs one? You know...like the coveted Troop E of the staties with their 5 Turnpike barracks? $10,000,000 + in OT and details alone there in a single year. Not a lot of utility work being done on the Mass Pike last I checked....


If I recall the law exempted state roads with a speed limit over 45MPH.

You're barking up the wrong tree on details IMO. The ONLY thing I think is fair is that the detail rate should be a flat rate across the state. I've been on the hook for 40/hr and 68/hr in the same town depending on who was next on the list depending on rank. Same job should be the same pay. No rank or OIC duty involved. I have personal friends in LE who feel the same way. Some of them are even being paid the higher rates.

Bottom line is details save lives and it puts an extra cop(s) on the road who can respond to an incident if needed. It happened in town a few years ago and they caught the guys. There were three details in town that day. That's a lot of cops in a little hick town who are ready just a radio call away.
A flagman is just that. Go take a good look at the quality of people it attracts in other states. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: I'm guessing some of them need instruction to tie their boots in the morning.

If I recall the law exempted state roads with a speed limit over 45MPH.

You're barking up the wrong tree on details IMO. The ONLY thing I think is fair is that the detail rate should be a flat rate across the state. I've been on the hook for 40/hr and 68/hr in the same town depending on who was next on the list depending on rank. Same job should be the same pay. No rank or OIC duty involved. I have personal friends in LE who feel the same way. Some of them are even being paid the higher rates.

Bottom line is details save lives and it puts an extra cop(s) on the road who can respond to an incident if needed. It happened in town a few years ago and they caught the guys. There were three details in town that day. That's a lot of cops in a little hick town who are ready just a radio call away.
A flagman is just that. Go take a good look at the quality of people it attracts in other states. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: I'm guessing some of them need instruction to tie their boots in the morning.

Your bottom line is crap. Cop details haven't been proven to save any more lives. 49 other states don't have the limited use restrictions we have and many of those states have lower accident caused fatalities at construction sites. You know it, and I know it.

The argument that it puts more cops on the street is moot. If we need more cops, hire them to be cops, don't pay them OT to stand around. I'm sure $10,000,000 a year could hire an extra full time cop or two for troop E, no? Or maybe something closer to 75 of them?

As for the "quality" of people it attracts, um, we're talking about directing traffic guy. It ain't rocket science. 70+ year old ladies in virtually every town in mass do it during the school year....

Your bottom line is crap. Cop details haven't been proven to save any more lives. 49 other states don't have the limited use restrictions we have and many of those states have lower accident caused fatalities at construction sites. You know it, and I know it.

The argument that it puts more cops on the street is moot. If we need more cops, hire them to be cops, don't pay them OT to stand around. I'm sure $10,000,000 a year could hire an extra full time cop or two for troop E, no? Or maybe something closer to 75 of them?

As for the "quality" of people it attracts, um, we're talking about directing traffic guy. It ain't rocket science. 70+ year old ladies in virtually every town in mass do it during the school year....

Pretty scary that this far in I find myself agreeing with jzima...this needs to end!;)

Pretty scary that this far in I find myself agreeing with jzima...this needs to end!;)

:thumbsup:

I had a fantastic experience with the MA Environmental Police out at Wallum Lake. My boat has been in NH for the last 7 years exclusively so it has a NH registration. I finally purchase a trailer and brought it down to MA where it stayed for a exactly 2 weeks. The only trip out in MA, the Environmental Police at Wallum Lake starts screaming at me about having the boat registered in NH. When I explain to him the reason he tells me he could arrest me on the spot because the boat doesn't have a MA title therefore you can't use it in MA. This occurred with 3 adults and 3 young children. My poor 6 year old son thought dad was going to be arrested for using the boat in MA. I called my State Representative George Ross. He told me to go back out there and if they give me a hard time again to get their badge number and name. The boat will never again be used in MA waters.

I had a fantastic experience with the MA Environmental Police out at Wallum Lake. My boat has been in NH for the last 7 years exclusively so it has a NH registration. I finally purchase a trailer and brought it down to MA where it stayed for a exactly 2 weeks. The only trip out in MA, the Environmental Police at Wallum Lake starts screaming at me about having the boat registered in NH. When I explain to him the reason he tells me he could arrest me on the spot because the boat doesn't have a MA title therefore you can't use it in MA. This occurred with 3 adults and 3 young children. My poor 6 year old son thought dad was going to be arrested for using the boat in MA. I called my State Representative George Ross. He told me to go back out there and if they give me a hard time again to get their badge number and name. The boat will never again be used in MA waters.

You registered here just for that silly post? At least buy a wheel if you must subject us to your drivel.

You registered here just for that silly post? At least buy a wheel if you must subject us to your drivel.


Don't tell me.....You're a Mass Environmental Cop, aren't you????

If not, you must be the official THT greeter.......but shouldn't you be
posting in the "Douchebag" thread, where you should feel right at home?

I had a fantastic experience with the MA Environmental Police out at Wallum Lake. My boat has been in NH for the last 7 years exclusively so it has a NH registration. I finally purchase a trailer and brought it down to MA where it stayed for a exactly 2 weeks. The only trip out in MA, the Environmental Police at Wallum Lake starts screaming at me about having the boat registered in NH. When I explain to him the reason he tells me he could arrest me on the spot because the boat doesn't have a MA title therefore you can't use it in MA. This occurred with 3 adults and 3 young children. My poor 6 year old son thought dad was going to be arrested for using the boat in MA. I called my State Representative George Ross. He told me to go back out there and if they give me a hard time again to get their badge number and name. The boat will never again be used in MA waters.

What you say is quite true because it happened to us on Wallum Lake three years ago. Our boat was registered in Rhode Island (and Wallum Lake is partly in RI which really adds to the fun) and the fish cop had a total meltdown that I was a Mass resident with a RI registered boat. I calmly explained to her that our boat was slipped in Warwick, Rhode Island as shown on the registration but we would occasionally bring it home to clean it up and while home, we would dunk it in the fresh water. She continued to have a hissy fit. I stood there and politely listened to her for about five very long minutes before she stopped her rant. After she was done, I pulled out my copy of 323 CMR 1.06 (I always keep it with my registration just in case) and politely reminded her that I was under no obligation to register my boat in MA so long as it was not operated in MA waters for more than 60 consecutive days. Then I gave her my business card (I'm a lawyer) and asked her if she had anything else to discuss before I launched the boat. She angrily said "no" and went back to her green truck and just sat there. When we came back about two hours later, she greeted us at the ramp. She was very nice, asked us if we had a good time on the lake, and told us to have a nice day. I guess she just needed to be educated a bit on the laws of the Commonwealth.

You registered here just for that silly post? At least buy a wheel if you must subject us to your drivel.

What you say is quite true because it happened to us on Wallum Lake three years ago. Our boat was registered in Rhode Island (and Wallum Lake is partly in RI which really adds to the fun) and the fish cop had a total meltdown that I was a Mass resident with a RI registered boat. I calmly explained to her that our boat was slipped in Warwick, Rhode Island as shown on the registration but we would occasionally bring it home to clean it up and while home, we would dunk it in the fresh water. She continued to have a hissy fit. I stood there and politely listened to her for about five very long minutes before she stopped her rant. After she was done, I pulled out my copy of 323 CMR 1.06 (I always keep it with my registration just in case) and politely reminded her that I was under no obligation to register my boat in MA so long as it was not operated in MA waters for more than 60 consecutive days. Then I gave her my business card (I'm a lawyer) and asked her if she had anything else to discuss before I launched the boat. She angrily said "no" and went back to her green truck and just sat there. When we came back about two hours later, she greeted us at the ramp. She was very nice, asked us if we had a good time on the lake, and told us to have a nice day. I guess she just needed to be educated a bit on the laws of the Commonwealth.

You would think the state would want the tourist dollars from people who don't typically boat in MA. It seems fairly short sighted to harass people who are trying to have a good time spending their money in the Commonwealth.

You registered here just for that silly post? At least buy a wheel if you must subject us to your drivel.

You sound like you are having a fantastic day. Actually, I am one of those horrible lurkers that just reads post for information but has contributed nothing over the last few months.

You would think the state would want the tourist dollars from people who don't typically boat in MA. It seems fairly short sighted to harass people who are trying to have a good time spending their money in the Commonwealth.

The state does want tourist dollars. The actions of one EPO hardly constitutes what the state desires.

And while I'm sure the state will feel the financial and economic wrath of you not boating here anymore, surely the fine people on the lake will not miss another boat on their lake.

Good day.

Don't tell me.....You're a Mass Environmental Cop, aren't you????

If not, you must be the official THT greeter.......but shouldn't you be
posting in the "Douchebag" thread, where you should feel right at home?

Oh man you got me good!! I will now change my ways because of this post. Thank you for all you have done!

...and no, I do not live, work, or even stop in MA if I can avoid it.

You registered here just for that silly post? At least buy a wheel if you must subject us to your drivel.

The state does want tourist dollars. The actions of one EPO hardly constitutes what the state desires.

And while I'm sure the state will feel the financial and economic wrath of you not boating here anymore, surely the fine people on the lake will not miss another boat on their lake.

Good day.

That particular lake doesn't have many houses on it because it is in the middle of a state forest. The state won't miss me on that lake because the launch only has 57 parking spaces and they close it as soon as it is completely full. I would disagree with you on it being just one EPO since there are now pages of people citing their experience with the same organization in the same exact state. Unless of course that one person manages to cover a heck of a lot of territory in a very short period of time.

That particular lake doesn't have many houses on it because it is in the middle of a state forest. The state won't miss me on that lake because the launch only has 57 parking spaces and they close it as soon as it is completely full. I would disagree with you on it being just one EPO since there are now pages of people citing their experience with the same organization in the same exact state. Unless of course that one person manages to cover a heck of a lot of territory in a very short period of time.

Read the pages. Most of the comments are actually bickering on offtopic bullshit and/or poking fun at the OP who shit his $300 pants because he saw a gun. Your personal experience is all you have to go off of, and based on your singular personal experience, you've made your decision. If you have multiple stories with different EPO's pulling stupid shit, by all means, tell away. My point remains though. You made your decision based on one singular personal encounter with one EPO.

Either way, it's no big deal that you won't be visiting Mass. We're plenty full of whiners in this state. In fact, take some with you back home.

Oh man you got me good!! I will now change my ways because of this post. Thank you for all you have done!

Glad I could be of service.

Oh Crap, not this s&*t agian. Everyone's a lawyer, everyone's been sh*& on by MEP. Wow, how was the fishing at Wallum Lake???

I guess thats the difference between Live Free or Die and Assachusetts.... welcome to our state!

Don't want to mess anything up by inserting anything factual into this thread... but from the environmental police website regarding boats registered in another state:
http://www.mass.gov/eea/grants-and-tech-assistance/enforcement/environmental-police/boat-rv-and-snowmobile-registration-bureau/faqs-for-registration-of-motorboats.html

Q: I live in another state but sometimes boat in Massachusetts. Do I need to register and title my boat?

A: Visiting boat owners who are registered in another state are allowed to boat in Massachusetts for up to 60 consecutive days without obtaining a Massachusetts registration and title. If you plan to keep the boat in Massachusetts for more than 60 consecutive days, you must obtain a Massachusetts registration and title certificate.

Don't want to mess anything up by inserting anything factual into this thread... but from the environmental police website regarding boats registered in another state:
http://www.mass.gov/eea/grants-and-tech-assistance/enforcement/environmental-police/boat-rv-and-snowmobile-registration-bureau/faqs-for-registration-of-motorboats.html

Q: I live in another state but sometimes boat in Massachusetts. Do I need to register and title my boat?

A: Visiting boat owners who are registered in another state are allowed to boat in Massachusetts for up to 60 consecutive days without obtaining a Massachusetts registration and title. If you plan to keep the boat in Massachusetts for more than 60 consecutive days, you must obtain a Massachusetts registration and title certificate.


That applies to boats kept in the water, not on a trailer.