Northeast - 'Shark Wranglers' coming to Cape Cod

Petition to Stop 'Shark Wranglers' from Filming off the Coast of Cape Cod

The History Channel's "Shark Wranglers" are coming to Cape Cod. The Massachusetts Division of Marine Fisheries (DMF) is allowing them to operate under their permit. The petition below is a request to remove the Shark Wranglers from the DMF permit. We fully support the DMF's current research, and will continue to do so, but disagree with their involvement in the reality TV series. The "Shark Wranglers" operate under a guise of research, but their methods pose many risks to the sharks and their TV ratings are most certainly a goal. Shark research is very important, but sacrificing the safety of the animals for the sake of profiteering is not acceptable—not in our waters.

I ask that you read the petition and make your own judgment. If you support and sign the petition, please post it to your Facebook page, Twitter, email your non-THT contacts, and share it any other way you can.

https://www.change.org/petitions/massachusetts-division-of-marine-fisheries-remove-shark-wranglers-from-dmf-permit-to-capture-and-tag-great-whites# (https://www.change.org/petitions/massachusetts-division-of-marine-fisheries-remove-shark-wranglers-from-dmf-permit-to-capture-and-tag-great-whites)

To each their own.

My own judgment:

Let them come here, fine by me.

This is more of a seal issue than Great White issue to begin with.

Mix these ingredients and you have a recipe for disaster.

1- over population of seals that wipe out entire ground fish stocks.
2-Great white sharks follow the seal poplulations
3- summer population of human swimmers

How long before a great white mistakes a human for a seal? Personally, I don't think it's an "if" situation rather than a "when" situation.

At some point, we are looking at a small scale real life JAWS situation.

In my opinion, its better to sacrifice a great white shark due to filming than have that same great white potentially maim a youngster swimming while people helplessly look on.

Tagging sharks can ultimately lead to safer waters for swimmers to enjoy. However, the Shark Wranglers methods are not necesarry, and pose risks for a protected species. The Shark Wranglers are not local. Let the DMF continue their research, and protect the swimmers and sharks.

Read the interview below with DMF's Greg Skomal.

Q:Are you getting that information in real-time?

A:It's only as real-time as frequently as we check the receivers. So if we check the receivers daily, we'd know when the last shark was there. It's not satellite-linked, at least not yet, but I think that's coming.

Q:And when that happens, you can use it as a warning system too.

A:Exactly. Imagine if we tag a dozen white sharks off Cape Cod, and we've got receivers on all the popular swimming beaches and the receivers are linked to a satellite. That could really give a sense when white sharks are around beaches. We've talked about doing that for public safety.


Read more: How to Tag a Great White: Shark Week - Popular Mechanics (http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/environment/how-to-tag-a-great-white-shark-week#ixzz20naVi42z)

:thumbsup:

kevinc33: well said.

What exactly are the Wranglers doing that is so bad that other researchers would not do?

Cindy Lu - Good information - didn't know that. I'm all for tracking the sharks.

How about a new petition: Would you agree to the following idea:

Let Shark Wranglers come here and do their work. Based on the profit(if any), perhaps shark wranglers would donate a small portion of the profit to go towards the future purchase of receivers that attach to sharks which are tracked by sattelite? I am assuming this equipment is not cheap and that funding of these receivers will be tough to come by given the present state of the economy. Just an idea.

What exactly are the Wranglers doing that is so bad that other researchers would not do?

The petition explains how their methods are different. Bottom line, they are catching and hauling an exhausted sharks out of the water, and drilling holes in them to attach tags. Other researchers, such as those with our local DMF, can and are attaching tags via a harpoon while the shark is free swimming in the water.

Bill Charprales, Greg Skomal and their team can tag more sharks than these wrangler nitwits without ever changing the shark's behavior or risking injury to said beast. Fisher and his band of self-important, over-indulged dilletantes are niether wanted nor needed here...

CMP

Cindy Lu - Good information - didn't know that. I'm all for tracking the sharks.

How about a new petition: Would you agree to the following idea:

Let Shark Wranglers come here and do their work. Based on the profit(if any), perhaps shark wranglers would donate a small portion of the profit to go towards the future purchase of receivers that attach to sharks which are tracked by sattelite? I am assuming this equipment is not cheap and that funding of these receivers will be tough to come by given the present state of the economy. Just an idea.

Kevin,

The DMF has told us they are open to public comment. They are doing a stress physiology research project on the Ocearch when the Shark Wranglers are here, and DMF's greater interest is the movement of great whites around the Cape--which they are already working on. The State is working off a grant, and we do believe if people are educated on the subject they would be willing to fund further local research. I understand it is a tough economy, but the money made on the reality TV show is not making its way here. Also, the tags the Shark Wranglers use only report when the shark is on the surface. Acoustic tags, which the DMF has been deploying, report to receivers underwater.

Ultimately, more acoustic tags need to be deployed, and the receivers need to have a satellite link for the data to be real-time. This may take time, but with public support it can happen.

-Ben

Bill Charprales, Greg Skomal and their team can tag more sharks than these wrangler nitwits without ever changing the shark's behavior or risking injury to said beast. Fisher and his band of self-important, over-indulged dilletantes are niether wanted nor needed here...

CMP

:thumbsup: Exactly...thank you. Please sign and share the petition, so we can keep these guys out of our waters, and let the local team continue their awesome work.

-Ben

Thank you for the info CindyLou. I put my name on the dotted line. TV nitwits.

Personally the only issue I see them having is their chumming methods and the close proximity to the beach and swimmers. If you have ever seen the show, they are usually fishing in some remote areas. Off Chatham they will be fishing within sight of beach goers. Chris just had to deal with a tragedy in South Africa that many believe was partially his fault. Taken from Chris Fischer's Face Book Page: "There has been tragic news in False Bay today.
A body boarder has been taken by a white shark.
Our thoughts and prayers go out to the family that has been affected.
We departed False Bay over three days ago after working there from Sunday afternoon the 15th to Monday afternoon the 16th.
During our 24 hrs of work(Sun afternoon to Monday afternoon) there we chummed 24kg of pilchards(sardines). Less than the daily allotment for each of three cage diving boats working daily.
We have been east of Cape Agulhas(160km east of Seal Island) since Monday evening until we arrived in Walker Bay(80km East of Seal Island) this morning.
We are terribly sorry again for the loss of this family and at this time our thoughts and prayers are with them."
He had to cancel his previous Face Book account because of the immense negative outcry.

Just curious about the concerns here. I don't know where I stand on this subject.

I see why people are against letting them come here as there maybe some potential harm to the sharks. With that said, it's one boat tagging sharks and maybe for some good to protect swimmers. What about the annual OB shark tournament? There are 50 boats that go out with one goal...to catch and bring home the largest shark.

Is it more offensive that the wranglers are part of a TV show and may profit from it? Because I don't see the same concerns about the shark tournament.

Just curious about the concerns here. I don't know where I stand on this subject.

I see why people are against letting them come here as there maybe some potential harm to the sharks. With that said, it's one boat tagging sharks and maybe for some good to protect swimmers. What about the annual OB shark tournament? There are 50 boats that go out with one goal...to catch and bring home the largest shark.

Is it more offensive that the wranglers are part of a TV show and may profit from it? Because I don't see the same concerns about the shark tournament.

The fishermen participating in the Monster Shark tournament aren't targeting protected species.

The fishermen participating in the Monster Shark tournament aren't targeting protected species.

Ok that makes more sense. So the issue is they want to target a protected species under whatever research permit they have. Sounds like the Sea Shephard should be all over this.

I'm a fisherman and just don't know, but chumming close to beaches sounds like a disaster waiting to happen.

Considering they have a reality TV show I can only assume their efforts are for profit and shark research is second on the priority list. And while it is a creative effort to make money, we need these white sharks to put a dent in the tourist.....uh I mean seal population. I will sign the petition and share on facebook.

i dont have a problem with it. the sharks appear to be released healthy.

Ben - Great information. Thank you for sharing the difference in the receiver technology. I agree the acoustic receivers would be much more reliable due to the underwater tracking.

I am forward thinking on this, looking down the road. Doesn't everyone realize the eventual outcome? Someone is going to get maimed at some point. An over population of seals, great whites, and cape cod vacactioners can't live in harmony forever. It's imposible. Something has to give.

When it does happen, the blame game will really begin, just like the recent South Africa unfortunate surfer killing.

Isn't the root cause or the dirty little secret the seals? Take away a portion of the herd, and the sharks go away. If people would have the foresite to buy into the theory of seal population control, this issue would become a lot easier/clearer.

This is why it's moot to me if someone on a tv channel comes into our area to work with the Great Whites.

Although the current efforts have been stellar, I believe we are not addressing the root cause. And on top of that, attacking the root cause isn't the popular/trendy thing to do today. Putting patches on things is the way things work.

The best example of this is the acoustic receiver program. I would rather have it than not have it in the future. BUT, it only works with sharks that you tag. So if you tag 30% of the great whites in the area, 70% have no tag and don't show up on any precaution equipment. A great way to reduce the risk which I applaud, but hardly a solution to the problem. Now, reduce the seal population while putting this excellent program in place and I believe we may have a solution that keeps swimmers safe for a long time to come.

I personally think we should encourage "for profit" enterprises that can lead to a better understanding and better management of our surroundings. The show will help promote our area to tourists which is also good.

I would bet they do thier research off Monomoy and south beach where there are more seals and sharks and not near Nauset.

There are plenty of things to be against and I don't think this one is worth my time.

i dont have a problem with it. the sharks appear to be released healthy.

I think the shark that died (as a result of their methods) would disagree...

I personally think we should encourage "for profit" enterprises that can lead to a better understanding and better management of our surroundings. The show will help promote our area to tourists which is also good.



I don't think that worked too well in South Africa. Controversy follows this show wherever it goes, and they are now on their third name (formerly Expedition Great White and Sharkmen).

We do need a better understanding, and management...we don't need controversy and TV drama.

Again I have nothing against "for profit" organizations, but to sensationalize these creatures that are doing a very important ecological job just seems like a bad idea. we have had the white sharks here for what, 5 years or so? let them kill off the food supply and move on. no need to catch them hook and line and get them all stressed out for the cause of profit under the guise of research. there are a few local guys doing some great work tagging these fish without stressing them, lets keep it that way. and if a swimmer gets picked off well, play stupid games and you win stupid prizes.

I personally think we should encourage "for profit" enterprises that can lead to a better understanding and better management of our surroundings. The show will help promote our area to tourists which is also good.

I would bet they do thier research off Monomoy and south beach where there are more seals and sharks and not near Nauset.

There are plenty of things to be against and I don't think this one is worth my time.

Kind what I was thinking.

and the more of a scare there is, the more funding (tax) for Scomal so that he can realize his dream of tagging and tracking all the sharks. I can see it now, an iPhone app to the government tracking data.

Personallly I think he is another waste of taxpayer money, but maybe its just me.

Again I have nothing against "for profit" organizations, but to sensationalize these creatures that are doing a very important ecological job just seems like a bad idea. we have had the white sharks here for what, 5 years or so? let them kill off the food supply and move on. no need to catch them hook and line and get them all stressed out for the cause of profit under the guise of research. there are a few local guys doing some great work tagging these fish without stressing them, lets keep it that way. and if a swimmer gets picked off well, play stupid games and you win stupid prizes.

You don't actually think GW's have been here for only the past 5 years, do you? Seals may be bringing them in closer and more during the day and now the average joe is seeing them but they have been around a hell of a lot longer than that.

how often have you read or seen anything about Orca's up here? saw a small pod 2 times up here in the past 4 maybe 5 years. If I sent photo's to the globe that wouild have been another hot story.

I'd also be surprised if the current tagging efforts are all volunteer. Pretty much everything is in chase of some type of profit.

You don't actually think GW's have been here for only the past 5 years, do you? Seals may be bringing them in closer and more during the day and now the average joe is seeing them but they have been around a hell of a lot longer than that.

how often have you read or seen anything about Orca's up here? saw a small pod 2 times up here in the past 4 maybe 5 years. If I sent photo's to the globe that wouild have been another hot story.

I'd also be surprised if the current tagging efforts are all volunteer. Pretty much everything is in chase of some type of profit.


No, I know they have been here for millions of years, and will stick around when there is a food supply present (Hooper taught me that when I was 6 or so) and move on when there is nothing to eat. but they have been here in significant numbers for the past 5-7 years. I don't see why we need to tag them in the first place. no seals, no sharks on the beach.....simple equation.

Cindy i havent heard a shark died. Nothing about that on google. Do you have a link to this info?

No, I know they have been here for millions of years, and will stick around when there is a food supply present (Hooper taught me that when I was 6 or so) and move on when there is nothing to eat. but they have been here in significant numbers for the past 5-7 years. I don't see why we need to tag them in the first place. no seals, no sharks on the beach.....simple equation.
There physiology is set up to feed at night. Seals are on the beach at night. Tuna are the reason they are here seals are a bonus. Notice that the really big fish are not tagged just the juvies. If they want to get the real monster sized fish the mid-day fishing with the spoter planes are not going to get it done. They may see an 18' or so fish on occassion but that is not the boss fish. Finding one of those requires different tactics. One would be a dead whale ever notice the mid water boats always seem to have an accident about 2-3 weeks before any white shark studies/filming happen here hmmm wonder why
The tv show people have used whale products in there chum before whether they do here or not would depend if they get a permit or are left alone because of the paper trail/outcry it can cause.
All that out there they don't have data they need it and the more private data available the better

I think its a great show and have no problems with their methods. I hope they invite Skomal to assist them!

Cindy i havent heard a shark died. Nothing about that on google. Do you have a link to this info?


In the hearing that occurred after the Shark Wranglers' permit was suspended, Mr. Mike Meyer (SA Dept. of Environmental Affairs- Oceans and Coasts Branch) said, "we had a mortality earlier on, which can be expected in a project of this nature." This was a government official, not a scientist, and further details were not released to the public.

Our DMF has also confirmed the death.

-Ben

Bill Charprales, Greg Skomal and their team can tag more sharks than these wrangler nitwits without ever changing the shark's behavior or risking injury to said beast. Fisher and his band of self-important, over-indulged dilletantes are niether wanted nor needed here...

CMP

Well said :thumbsup:

I'm going to rename my boat "Shark Shepherd" and ride around the GWs in search of Shark Wranglers in order to interfere with this behavior. I plan to throw all my lures at their boat because my lures seem to drive fish away. I'm sure I'll have a TV contract by the end of the season and you can all watch my new show.

I do not support ANYTHING that Chris Fischer is a part of... total waste of space

Bill Charprales, Greg Skomal and their team can tag more sharks than these wrangler nitwits without ever changing the shark's behavior or risking injury to said beast. Fisher and his band of self-important, over-indulged dilletantes are niether wanted nor needed here...

CMP


Well said !!! Chris Fischer is trying to act way too "cool" and sensationalized with this stupid show. The drama is all created to get viewers, which will get higher end advertisers.

Just another rich boy spending his families money. He's an obnoxious guy seeking more attention and self importance than trying to gather Great White tracking info...

I'll sign the petition.

First of all that shark didn't die because of something they did when the checked the sharks blood the red cell count was 2/3 lower than any other shark they caught and they did everything in there power to try and find the shark and give it aid nobody is perfect. Second of all why if you saw these guys chumming of the beach why would you be stupid enough to even think about getting into the water. Third if anyone thinks this is just about money and ratings you are sorely mistaken I am willing to bet they don't even make enough money to cover there operating cost. Everybody is entitled to there own opinion I just think you should be bash these guys when they are doing more than most people on here to try and fix things because if something isn't done to protect these sharks there aren't going to be any left.

In April Lilenfeld was attacked by a shark measuring over 13 feet according to GlobalPost's online news. Some local residents insisted that the tragic accident occurred from the OCEARCH chumming the waters days before. Chumming is the act of baiting the waters to attract sharks in the area.
South Africa's environmental authorities suspended the crew's license to catch sharks in their waters, but following an investigation, reinstated the permit after it was determined there was no connection between the shark attack and the OCEARCH says Fischer.
Fischer says his crew was 160 miles away during the time of the attack, and left the area three days before. He said that they only used about 50 pounds of chum a day for a period of a day and a half. The attack happened 20 miles away from where the research vessel baited the water. "It is a completely different universe on the ocean. It's like taking a bucket of water and throwing it into the ocean. It's instantly parts per billion," he said.
Following the attack Fischer says the controversy surrounding the death strengthened his resolve and after surviving his own attack is now ready to "bring up a discussion of ethics" in ocean research.
"They bent me over, I got multiple death threats, they said they were going to blow up the ship, a guy died and I'm back on the water getting it done," he said. "The value of what we're doing has been examined thoroughly - it's been the decision of the government and the science community that we need to get back out. I got my permit back and finished my gig, I'm proud of that."
Safety for both man and fish is the main priority for Fischer. Due to the nature of their work and the unpredictability that accompanies it, he says there needs to be an open discussion on "acceptable loss."
"If you have to catch 100 sharks to solve a 450-million-year-old puzzle and you know you're going to kill three of them to save the rest," he said. "Is it worth it?"
As future episodes of Shark Wranglers air on the History Channel, Fischer wants residents of Park City and the world to know the true intent of the show. After leveraging everything he owns to help fund research, scientist's salaries and the equipment for the show, he says he has proven his commitment to the cause. "Don't want people to think Fischer productions is here making TV," he said. "I want people to think Fischer Productions is in Park City and saving the ocean. I really don't give a s**t about TV; it's a means to an end."

Found this in a article I read

Good conversation guys. Thank you to all who support and have signed the petition. For those that have not yet, please take a minute to read/sign it.

Here is the link again:

https://www.change.org/petitions/massachusetts-division-of-marine-fisheries-remove-shark-wranglers-from-dmf-permit-to-capture-and-tag-great-whites# (https://www.change.org/petitions/massachusetts-division-of-marine-fisheries-remove-shark-wranglers-from-dmf-permit-to-capture-and-tag-great-whites#)

I watched 3 episodes last night. I agree it stresses the sharks but all but 1 survived. I hope the research leads to protecting the great whites in our waters. I also checked out the site and tracked a bunch of sharks which was cool.

How is the great white not protected already? no one is targeting them hook and line but these "researchers". If you want them to thrive, leave them the eff alone! its not like Frak Mundis is out there killing 5 a day anymore...

I respect your efforts to protect these fish, but if it was my time i would invest it in protecting makos and threshers ect ect ect.

I am not a resident of the area and have no real dog in this hunt. I am not big fan of Chris Fischer either but many of issues brought up in the petition seem to be unscientific also or unsubstantiated. Yes, there has apparently been a death but my question is of all the tags placed by Fischer's team are they working and transmitting data. If they are that would seem to vindicate the Shark Wrangler's methods.

I also wonder of the dorsal tags placed by harpoon, how long do they stay on? and if the other tags give more in depth comprehensive information that will lead to a better understanding of the GW?

Fischer definitely seems most interested in getting his mug on TV and definitely likes his ego stroked but just because he doesn't have a PhD in Marine sciences does not mean his work is not valuable?

I think the shark that died (as a result of their methods) would disagree...

Possibly, but since there is absolutely no evidence to support your claim, i'll assume otherwise. Western Oz is up to what, 5 recent GW deaths now? That due to these guys chumming the waters too, or is that just another completely unsubstantiated claim your little petition is making?

I love when hippies make the "nature" argument, while they ignore that humans are part of the equation. We stopped killing seals, now there is a seal problem. That seal problem has led to a ground fish stock problem. It's also leading to a baitfish problem. And now, it's leading to an inshore shark problem. The next problem is a 'child death' problem, but then the tree hungers will just hide behind the trees and say stupid things like 'it's their ocean'.

Bears and wolves used to live on the land where my home sits. They don't anymore, but should one wander on when my kids are outside playing, I'll be sure to run upstairs and start a petition.....

Just another rich boy spending his families money. He's an obnoxious guy seeking more attention and self importance than ...

I'll sign the petition.


Hmmm, for a minute there, I thought you were talking about........ ;)


But really, do we really need another fake reality show spewing artificial talking points from self proclaimed experts?

In April Lilenfeld was attacked by a shark measuring over 13 feet according to GlobalPost's online news. Some local residents insisted that the tragic accident occurred from the OCEARCH chumming the waters days before. Chumming is the act of baiting the waters to attract sharks in the area.
South Africa's environmental authorities suspended the crew's license to catch sharks in their waters, but following an investigation, reinstated the permit after it was determined there was no connection between the shark attack and the OCEARCH says Fischer.
Fischer says his crew was 160 miles away during the time of the attack, and left the area three days before. He said that they only used about 50 pounds of chum a day for a period of a day and a half. The attack happened 20 miles away from where the research vessel baited the water. "It is a completely different universe on the ocean. It's like taking a bucket of water and throwing it into the ocean. It's instantly parts per billion," he said.
Following the attack Fischer says the controversy surrounding the death strengthened his resolve and after surviving his own attack is now ready to "bring up a discussion of ethics" in ocean research.
"They bent me over, I got multiple death threats, they said they were going to blow up the ship, a guy died and I'm back on the water getting it done," he said. "The value of what we're doing has been examined thoroughly - it's been the decision of the government and the science community that we need to get back out. I got my permit back and finished my gig, I'm proud of that."
Safety for both man and fish is the main priority for Fischer. Due to the nature of their work and the unpredictability that accompanies it, he says there needs to be an open discussion on "acceptable loss."
"If you have to catch 100 sharks to solve a 450-million-year-old puzzle and you know you're going to kill three of them to save the rest," he said. "Is it worth it?"
As future episodes of Shark Wranglers air on the History Channel, Fischer wants residents of Park City and the world to know the true intent of the show. After leveraging everything he owns to help fund research, scientist's salaries and the equipment for the show, he says he has proven his commitment to the cause. "Don't want people to think Fischer productions is here making TV," he said. "I want people to think Fischer Productions is in Park City and saving the ocean. I really don't give a s**t about TV; it's a means to an end."

Found this in a article I read

:thumbsup:

Facts like these only matter to rational folks....

Hmmm, for a minute there, I thought you were talking about........ ;)


But really, do we really need another fake reality show spewing artificial talking points from self proclaimed experts?
My thoughts exactly

Watched an episode of the show last night. Did not look very scientific for the most part. Yes, they tagged the shark and took a blood sample but they had the thing out of the water for over 10 minutes. I wonder if there's not a more appropriate way to tag these fish without horsing them on to a giant lift with a bunch of guys on it?

I miss drama and sitcoms on TV! These reality shows are multiplying like flies and frankly, most of them are not very good or entertaining.

Chris

I think I'm missing part of the picture. Why isn't more tagging/research just plain better than less tagging/research? Does having the "shark wranglers" on the scene prevent the local folks from doing their thing?

I think I'm with this guy;

There are plenty of things to be against and I don't think this one is worth my time.

Possibly, but since there is absolutely no evidence to support your claim, i'll assume otherwise. Western Oz is up to what, 5 recent GW deaths now? That due to these guys chumming the waters too, or is that just another completely unsubstantiated claim your little petition is making?

I love when hippies make the "nature" argument, while they ignore that humans are part of the equation. We stopped killing seals, now there is a seal problem. That seal problem has led to a ground fish stock problem. It's also leading to a baitfish problem. And now, it's leading to an inshore shark problem. The next problem is a 'child death' problem, but then the tree hungers will just hide behind the trees and say stupid things like 'it's their ocean'.

Bears and wolves used to live on the land where my home sits. They don't anymore, but should one wander on when my kids are outside playing, I'll be sure to run upstairs and start a petition.....

Agree with ^this. Judging by their attitudes, I really do think many of these people desire to see a kid dead. Then they can choose a side of the political/media/philosophy debate, have a go, create more political/media/philosophy arguments & petitions and feel really, really, really important.

Also . . . I'm the furthest one can be from harming animals, poaching, and unnecessary trophy hunting but seriously, can anybody offer an argument for protecting the GW sharks other than that they are "really cool"? Boogie boarders are cool too...

Agree with ^this. Judging by their attitudes, I really do think many of these people desire to see a kid dead. Then they can choose a side of the political/media/philosophy debate, have a go, create more political/media/philosophy arguments & petitions and feel really, really, really important.

Also . . . I'm the furthest one can be from harming animals, poaching, and unnecessary trophy hunting but seriously, can anybody offer an argument for protecting the GW sharks other than that they are "really cool"? Boogie boarders are cool too...
I am in no way a "tree Hugging Hippy" but I can tell you that great white sharks play a very important role in our oceans ecosystem. not only in chatham, but around the world....and in case you did not know 75% of the world is ocean so.......lets just kill em all and the tourists can keep pissing in our sand.

I am in no way a "tree Hugging Hippy" but I can tell you that great white sharks play a very important role in our oceans ecosystem. not only in chatham, but around the world....and in case you did not know 75% of the world is ocean so.......lets just kill em all and the tourists can keep pissing in our sand.

I should have added "a logical" argument. As I wrote, I'm not for killing sharks. I would just like to hear a "logical" argument for protecting this species thanks.

"Important role in our ecosystem" = This is good. . . so what is their role? How is this good for the World? If the species declined by 50%, how would this negatively impact the ocean?

I am in no way a "tree Hugging Hippy" but I can tell you that great white sharks play a very important role in our oceans ecosystem. not only in chatham, but around the world....and in case you did not know 75% of the world is ocean so.......lets just kill em all and the tourists can keep pissing in our sand.

No one is arguing to kill the sharks here. The rational answer seems to be for humans to facilitate the balance of the seal population. The sharks will do just fine finding forage somewhere else, just as they did before the explosion of seals on our beaches.

Another positive would be the resurrection of the ground fish stocks, as well as the baitfish. Hell, maybe folks will be able to catch stripers from the outer beaches like the good old days of just 5-10 years ago....

Like you point out, the ocean is pretty big. Not sure how limiting a food source near shore to protect people equates to killing all the sharks...

I should have added "a logical" argument. As I wrote, I'm not for killing sharks. I would just like to hear a "logical" argument for protecting this species thanks.

"Important role in our ecosystem" = This is good. . . so what is their role? How is this good for the World? If the species declined by 50%, how would this negatively impact the ocean?
I am no scientist either but I could gather that they control the population of many creatures in the sea....such as seals in south Africa. it has been said that the seals are not the primary target of the great whites off Chatham but I personally believe they are, at least for the juvenile great whites. no one can contest that we dont have a overpopulation of seals on the cape, clearly we do. the population was managed in the past by humans but now we have federal laws against it so who do we turn to to help us out?

No one is arguing to kill the sharks here. The rational answer seems to be for humans to facilitate the balance of the seal population. The sharks will do just fine finding forage somewhere else, just as they did before the explosion of seals on our beaches.

Another positive would be the resurrection of the ground fish stocks, as well as the baitfish. Hell, maybe folks will be able to catch stripers from the outer beaches like the good old days of just 5-10 years ago....

Like you point out, the ocean is pretty big. Not sure how limiting a food source near shore to protect people equates to killing all the sharks...
Personally I would love open season on seals, so would my Springfield M1A scout in .308:grin:

unfortunately it is to offensive for the pussified new America....

Personally I would love open season on seals, so would my Springfield M1A scout in .308:grin:

unfortunately it is to offensive for the pussified new America....

There was a buck a nose bounty on the flippered meat sacks until the late 60's. Inflation being what it is, $7.50 a nose makes sense to me...

CMP

Personally I would love open season on seals, so would my Springfield M1A scout in .308:grin:

unfortunately it is to offensive for the pussified new America....

:thumbsup::thumbsup:

I should have added "a logical" argument. As I wrote, I'm not for killing sharks. I would just like to hear a "logical" argument for protecting this species thanks.

"Important role in our ecosystem" = This is good. . . so what is their role? How is this good for the World? If the species declined by 50%, how would this negatively impact the ocean?

If you don't know the importance of an apex predator I don't know what to tell you. Maybe go back to high school?

If you don't know the importance of an apex predator I don't know what to tell you. Maybe go back to high school?

I am uneducated and you seem to be. Please educate me and teach me the importance of the apex predator. What is positive influence of the GW's on their ecosystem and the World as a whole? How would this influence change if the species declined by 75%? 50%? 25%? How would things change if the species grew by 25%? 50%?

Thanks in advance.

There was a buck a nose bounty on the flippered meat sacks until the late 60's. Inflation being what it is, $7.50 a nose makes sense to me...

CMP

Flippered Meat Sacks,:rofl:

I am uneducated and you seem to be. Please educate me and teach me the importance of the apex predator. What is positive influence of the GW's on their ecosystem and the World as a whole? How would this influence change if the species declined by 75%? 50%? 25%? How would things change if the species grew by 25%? 50%?

Thanks in advance.

Here is a magic trick to learn everything you missed in 8th grade Bio.... WWW.Google.com
seriously should we kill all the lions too? They would do a number on someone doing a nature walk on the Serengeti

Here's an easy way to evaluate Fischer's true motives....take away the TV cameras and the reality TV contract. Let him continue his important work without the glare of the bright lights of the camera crew. I'm gonna bet he stays in Park City if that were to become the case... or he'd go back to billfishing his way to Panama.

On the heels of the Wicked Tuna "Can't Watch TV"....I don't have any interest in Shark Wrangler's do Chatham with gratuitous shots of Chatham Light and Fisher drinking Sam Adams at the Squire. Talk about nausea

Had dinner at squire tonight. Place sucks. Food at squire in saugus/Lynn is better.

Had dinner at squire tonight. Place sucks. Food at squire in saugus/Lynn is better.

Don't get the crabs or clams, it's all commercial stuff.....

I gotta see Chris Fisher's resume'...... is he just another rich kid driving around in big boats? I remember his fishing show 5-10 yrs ago- it was nauseating to watch (too much ass-patting and everyone calling each other "captain".)

does he have any real qualifications/education? or is this all "self-taught"?

just googled Fisher and his work...... and my opinion has really changed about him. I still think he enjoys the publicity, but I also think he is genuinely trying to influence shark policy through research. I didn;t find anything about any formal education, but he seems to just pay a bunch of PhD's to come along and do the research on his boat.

as much as the "rich kid" part of all this burns my "working stiff" menatality- he seems to be getting somewhere.

we'll see.........

Here is a magic trick to learn everything you missed in 8th grade Bio.... WWW.Google.com
seriously should we kill all the lions too? They would do a number on someone doing a nature walk on the Serengeti

Consider shooting the guy who let you graduate from 8th grade.

This is the problem with removing or reducing apex predator stocks. read the article below.

The catastrophic decline around the world of "apex" predators such as wolves, cougars, lions or sharks has led to a huge increase in smaller "mesopredators" that are causing major economic and ecological disruptions, a new study concludes.

The findings, published today in the journal Bioscience, found that in North America all of the largest terrestrial predators have been in decline during the past 200 years while the ranges of 60 percent of mesopredators have expanded. The problem is global, growing and severe, scientists say, with few solutions in sight.

An example: in parts of Sub-Saharan Africa, lion and leopard populations have been decimated, allowing a surge in the "mesopredator" population next down the line, baboons. In some cases children are now being kept home from school to guard family gardens from brazen packs of crop-raiding baboons.

"This issue is very complex, and a lot of the consequences are not known," said William Ripple, a professor of forest ecosystems and society at Oregon State University. "But there's evidence that the explosion of mesopredator populations is very severe and has both ecological and economic repercussions."

In case after case around the world, the researchers said, primary predators such as wolves, lions or sharks have been dramatically reduced if not eliminated, usually on purpose and sometimes by forces such as habitat disruption, hunting or fishing. Many times this has been viewed positively by humans, fearful of personal attack, loss of livestock or other concerns. But the new picture that's emerging is a range of problems, including ecosystem and economic disruption that may dwarf any problems presented by the original primary predators.

"I've done a lot of work on wildlife in Africa, and people everywhere are asking some of the same questions, what do we do?" said Clinton Epps, an assistant professor at OSU who is studying the interactions between humans and wildlife. "Most important to understand is that these issues are complex, the issue is not as simple as getting rid of wolves or lions and thinking you've solved some problem. We have to be more careful about taking what appears to be the easy solution."

The elimination of wolves is often favored by ranchers, for instance, who fear attacks on their livestock. However, that has led to a huge surge in the number of coyotes, a "mesopredator" once kept in check by the wolves. The coyotes attack pronghorn antelope and domestic sheep, and attempts to control them have been hugely expensive, costing hundreds of millions of dollars.

"The economic impacts of mesopredators should be expected to exceed those of apex predators in any scenario in which mesopredators contribute to the same or to new conflict with humans," the researchers wrote in their report. "Mesopredators occur at higher densities than apex predators and exhibit greater resiliency to control efforts."
The problems are not confined to terrestrial ecosystems. Sharks, for instance, are in serious decline due to overfishing. In some places that has led to an explosion in the populations of rays, which in turn caused the collapse of a bay scallop fishery and both ecological an economic losses.

Among the findings of the study:
Primary or apex predators can actually benefit prey populations by suppressing smaller predators, and failure to consider this mechanism has triggered collapses of entire ecosystems.

Cascading negative effects of surging mesopredator populations have been documented for birds, sea turtles, lizards, rodents, marsupials, rabbits, fish, scallops, insects and ungulates.

The economic cost of controlling mesopredators may be very high, and sometimes could be accomplished more effectively at less cost by returning apex predators to the ecosystem.

Human intervention cannot easily replace the role of apex predators, in part because the constant fear of predation alters not only populations but behavior of mesopredators.

Large predators are usually carnivores, but mesopredators are often omnivores and can cause significant plant and crop damage.

The effects of exploding mesopredator populations can be found in oceans, rivers, forests and grasslands around the world.

Reversing and preventing mesopredator release is becoming increasingly difficult and expensive as the world's top predators continue to edge toward obliteration.
"These problems resist simple solutions," Ripple said. "I've read that when Gen. George Armstrong Custer came into the Black Hills in 1874, he noticed a scarcity of coyotes and the abundance of wolves. Now the wolves are gone in many places and coyotes are killing thousands of sheep all over the West."

"We are just barely beginning to appreciate the impact of losing our top predators," he said.

At OSU, Ripple and colleague Robert Beschta have done extensive research and multiple publications on the effect that loss of predators such as wolves and cougars have on ecosystem disruption, not only by allowing increased numbers of grazing animals such as deer and elk, but also losing the fear of predation that changes the behavior of these animals. They have documented ecosystem recovery in Yellowstone National Park after wolves were reintroduced there.

I don't see the problem with shark wranglers coming here. What their doing is just as much "science" as any other "researcher" is doing.

Did I miss where shark wranglers are actually killing all the sharks they encounter? Did I miss where someone said we should kill all the sharks?

If not, why the hell are people talking about killing apex predators? Is it just so they can prove their googling skills?

Did I miss where shark wranglers are actually killing all the sharks they encounter? Did I miss where someone said we should kill all the sharks?

If not, why the hell are people talking about killing apex predators? Is it just so they can prove their googling skills?

Poster named 4000 said:

can anybody offer an argument for protecting the GW sharks other than that they are "really cool"?

As I wrote, I'm not for killing sharks. I would just like to hear a "logical" argument for protecting this species thanks.

"Important role in our ecosystem" = This is good. . . so what is their role? How is this good for the World? If the species declined by 50%, how would this negatively impact the ocean?

I was simply answering his questions. No one was saying that the wranglers are killing sharks or that we should kill the sharks. Not everything here is a fight. The guy asked a question, I gave him an article that helped explain.

This was taken yesterday

I have been watching this show since his thread started and I really like the show.

I have been watching this show since his thread started and I really like the show.
I talked with Chris in Feb 11. The show is the vehicle he is using for living his dream. He's doing what he wants and loves. Like him or not you have to respect that.
It looked like they were having a party on the boat when we went by
If I were them I would go out before the storm as the biggest fish will be active leading up to the pressure drop:thumbsup:

i dont have a problem with it. the sharks appear to be released healthy.

I agree but not from your area so I will not comment on the differences of opinion

As I cruised by Stage Harbor yesterday I saw what certainly looked like a cage for diving with sharks on a trailer just north of the ramp parking lot. I guess I know why now.

The issue is that the safest method of *just* taggng sharks is what is being done now by the Chaprales and Skomal-harpoon tagging fish in water. However if Greg Skomal gave the okay, then i defer to his expertise that is enough for me. PLus you cannot draw blood,examine teeth,etc just from tagging...so there is scientific upside to Chris Fischer's methods. I suspect the risk is low, and the science is worth it, and have to believe in Greg Skomal signing off on his federal permit for Fischer.

A shark did die though: http://www.huliq.com/10061/shark-wranglers-try-regroup-after-death-maya

Common sense, you take a thousand pound plus fish out of the water, it stresses them, their organs are designed for the flotation of salt water. So it is a risk versus reward on the science side. Skomal seems to think it is good, that is good for me.

As to the nitwit whom says kill white sharks, you must not like fishing for cod, or striped bass, or fish? Grey seals are decimating the fish stocks. This is the artcile that Canada did recently:

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0165783611003249

Fact is we have messed up the ecosystem, apex predators keep the middle of the ecosystem in check, remove them, and things get out o whack-aka blossoming seal herds eat fish. Noiw I surf, and have been on the outer cape since I was 15, and will continue to do so. And I love fishing. Personally i will take the risk and still surf; i understand Mommy Daddy tourists may not like the risk though, or Mommy Daddy cape codders.

I advocate for 2 things:

1)More Great Whites killing more seals so I can go fish in the coming years recreationally , and guys can make a living fishing commercially.

2)A responsible seal cull as well will reduce fish consumption, and reduce the seals you reduce the GW sharks.

What happens without a deer hunt? Deers eat themselves into starvation and decimate forests. Go hit google and read up on apex predators and the benefit they provide to the ecosystems they interact with. Apex predators tend to be slower breeders as well than their prey, and not get along well with man whether on land or sea. So the choice is really, step into nature since we already screwed it up big time which we already do in many many cases on land, or watch the seal population bloom and wipe out fish stocks that will never rebound no matter how restrictive the fishing ban might be. Aka Canada. And of course bring in more big sharks.

Get over the idea nature should be left alone to let seal populations bloom. From a science standpoint the herd needs thinning.

Frankly the dude getting bitten did us a favor as fishermen, and draws attention to what everyone down here has known for years. Seals.Eat.Lots.Of.Fish. and attract. Really Big Sharks.

And shocking to Chatham, is the sharks are drawing more tourists not less. The town definitely tried to keep a lid on this for years...

I recently had the opportunity to meet with some of the crew of the Ocearch while docked in New Bedford. I have been a fan of both Brett and Chris since their days on the Go Fish and both men are remarkable fishermen and avid conservationist. To all of those who have signed the petition or do not agree with the show, I would encourage you to take a moment and reach out to Chris or others from the show and have them explain first hand the approach they take to science and goals of their studies. There seems to be a lot of truth inflation and exaggeration in the media making out the crew and the studies as detrimental to the overall study of white sharks and the general population. All forms of new science come under scrutiny and while everyone is entitled to their opinion, like science, opinions should be formed based on fact not media, hearsay or other forms of fictional data. The men of the Ocearch are very down to earth guys who were more than willing to discuss and share their objectives, beliefs, practices etc with those who actually want to listen. As an avid fishermen myself and a lifelong native of New England, I welcome the Ocearch crew to our waters. BTW, I have no affiliation with Ocearch.

Mrs Fischer is loaded. Chris has an ego no doubt.

Our oceans are losing balance just as Mr Cousteau predicted when I was a squid.

How can we as humans manage this?

I don`t know, but the seal population is decimating the Codfish and the lobstermen are going bankrupt.

Does anyone here know what the term "Keystone species" means?? How about apex predator?? Once the top of the food chain (APEX) or a keystone species disappears it can cause a domino effect for all species thereafter. What do we do when all the Apex predators disappear? An overabundance of fish, seals, what? And so down along the food chain it goes...the ecosystems of the ocean and the land are interconnected and ultimately can be adversly affected when these species disappear. How do we prevent that? By studying them, tagging them, following them...learning all we can about them to protect them and in the end protect humankind. These men are devoted...its not easy being away from family and friends for mionths at a time..to stare at the same sea everyday...The Tv show has over dramatized this so it looks awesome but think about it...10 men (or so, not sure how many) on the same ship, for months and months...fishing...its gotta get a lil lonely, So what if Chris Fischer loves this....wouldnt you love the media attention too if it involved something you have been chasing all your life???? Think hard about what these men are sacrificing so they can chase a bunch of Sharks around, nevermind the fact that its dangerous....PROPS to the Wranglers...they are my heroes!!!!!

Does anyone here know what the term "Keystone species" means?? How about apex predator?? Once the top of the food chain (APEX) or a keystone species disappears it can cause a domino effect for all species thereafter. What do we do when all the Apex predators disappear? An overabundance of fish, seals, what? And so down along the food chain it goes...the ecosystems of the ocean and the land are interconnected and ultimately can be adversly affected when these species disappear. How do we prevent that? By studying them, tagging them, following them...learning all we can about them to protect them and in the end protect humankind. These men are devoted...its not easy being away from family and friends for mionths at a time..to stare at the same sea everyday...The Tv show has over dramatized this so it looks awesome but think about it...10 men (or so, not sure how many) on the same ship, for months and months...fishing...its gotta get a lil lonely, So what if Chris Fischer loves this....wouldnt you love the media attention too if it involved something you have been chasing all your life???? Think hard about what these men are sacrificing so they can chase a bunch of Sharks around, nevermind the fact that its dangerous....PROPS to the Wranglers...they are my heroes!!!!! I would agree with you 100% if he wasn't such a loud moth dickhead. But...

The cage was for the owner of the Three Graces and another guy whose doing documentary or something like that.

I'm not sure on where I stand on them being here... But I do know that there are gonna be alotta a$$jacks out there who are gonna try to become "Shark Wranglers" now and try to start chumming for great whites. Next thing you know you'll be seeing people baiting baby seals.

I'm not sure on where I stand on them being here... But I do know that there are gonna be alotta a$$jacks out there who are gonna try to become "Shark Wranglers" now and try to start chumming for great whites. Next thing you know you'll be seeing people baiting baby seals.

That`s Ben Gardner`s boat!

So, this baby harp seal walks into a club...

I`ll be here all week.

kill the seals

haha awesome

Where are all these seals? I am going sharking this weekend and need bait, I will bring my own club. Then again I will be 45 miles off and chumming, someone might blame me for a death by shark on the beach, perhaps I should reconsider. Most of the content of this thread is ridiculous. Fisher and his team are doing research that retrieves data that would not otherwise be available for study. People are complaining about 1 dead shark. 1...really. obviously those people have successfully resuscitated every fish they have ever brought to the boat. Commercial draggers and purse seines kill indiscriminantly and we are talking about some chum, 1 angler and 1 hook. Who the hell cares if Fischer is a rich kid that likes having his face on TV? Last I checked, his net worth didn't effect me. I am at a loss for words. Then again, I am not releasing sharks this weekend, I am eating them. I revert back to that whole apex predator thing. You guys have a seal culling, let me know, I will bring a louisville slugger and a pick up and help out. As for whom ever mentioned Sea Shepherd....maybe you should go throw some rotten butter at the osearch.....ass hats!

They are on the move again. Heading of 84 degrees at 7.4 knots. Maybe they were waiting for the start of school and the beaches to clear out.