Gulf Coast - What is your thoughts on Louisiana's new offshore fishing permit?

http://www.wlf.louisiana.gov/news/35637

July 2, 2012 – Today, the Louisiana Wildlife and Fisheries Commission approved two notices of intent regarding the recreational harvest of reef fishincluding new reporting requirements and the utilization of a free, Offshore Recreational Landings permit.*
The two new measures are the Department’s first steps in a movement towards regional management.* The Department will use this information to collect essential angler and harvest data, which will in turn provide additional liberties and flexibility for recreational fishermen.**
Current management of reef fish involves not only LDWF, but also the federal government.* Management decisions are set for the entire Gulf of Mexico, rather than specific seasons and limits for each fishery at a regional or state level.* These decisions are based upon limited data, often unavailable on a timely basis.* The notices of intent passed today by the Commission will allow data to be readily available shortly after being collected.*
The first notice of intent expands the use of the Offshore Recreational Landings Permit to include all species of amberjack, grouper, hind and snapper, with the exception of gray snapper.* The Offshore Recreational Landings Permit was ratified by the Commission earlier this year and was originally approved for tuna, billfish and swordfish.* This free permit will soon be available to the public.*
In a related action, the Commission also approved a notice of intent that modifies current reef fish regulations.* Regulations will now require reporting and validation for certain recreationally landed reef fish.* Reef fish included in the expanded reporting requirements are: red snapper, greater amberjack, gag grouper, red grouper, black grouper, yellowfin grouper, yellowmouth grouper, scamp, rock hind and red hind.* The reporting requirements for reef fish would be similar to those approved for yellowfin tuna earlier this year by the Commission.*
Future modifications to reef fish regulations would allow the LDWF Secretary to close, open, reopen or reclose any reef fish season if state or federal landings allocations are met.*
Public comments on both notices of intent will be accepted until Thursday, October 4, 2012.* Comments may be submitted to Jason Adriance, Office of Fisheries, LDWF, P.O. Box 98000, Baton Rouge, LA 70898-9000 or via email at [email protected]
The Louisiana Department of Wildlife and Fisheries is charged with managing and protecting Louisiana’s abundant resources.* For more information, visit us at www.wlf.louisiana.gov on Facebook at www.facebook.com/ldwffb or follow us on Twitter @LDWF.*

This is free, enforceable and required per angler. Here is how it is going to work according to my talk with Jason.

Prior to departure you must obtain an authorization number. As you land fish you must complete a landing report for each fish. Prior to offload you must submit his landing report. Landing reports can be completed via Internet, app, or paper. Submission of the report can be done via app, phone, or Internet.

If you are boarded and do not have the information for a boated fish on the form you will be subject to legal actions. Same thing if you are found with fish on land but do not have a submitted report. If you have a camp you must submitt prior to offload as you would at the marina.

This information was given by Jason Adrience. He told me that if anyone had any questions to give him a call or email.

My opinion is that it is asking alot from each angler. One thing it does do is gather more information about the state of the fisheries. We can all agree that there is not enough data out there. Many people has said there needs to be some method of self reporting. This does cover this idea. I am going to talk to Jason today on what kind of information will need to be recorded.

I don't want anyone to know how bad a fisherman i am!

My opinion is that it is asking alot from each angler.

I agree. The concept is nice, but completing landing reports as you fish is asking a little much. I'm not going to record electronically on an app on my phone mid-trip and risk damaging my phone. Hell, I just lost a phone this past weekend to water damage. Paper forms would get wet and torn to shreds. I would, however, complete a landings report at the dock. That's no problem at all.

I'm not sure that I like that not filling out the forms is punishable by legal actions either. That seems to be going a little too far. I think that a voluntary reporting system would be well-received and have good participation if advertised properly.

My opinion is that it is asking alot from each angler. :thumbsup: More gubment BS.

Charge me $10 bucks for a "reef" permit and let me fill out a log via internet each month.

I agree, I will not be using my phone while on the boat to log te information. I plan to fill out a form and enter it when I get to dock.

It is great that it is free. The government already makes us pay too much to use our own resources.

the app will be free however ur cell phone provider if you can even get service will charge the hell out of you! i can see it now...on a school of tuna catching fish...get the line back in the water...wait gotta fill out the report...silly....fill it out at the dock.

I thInk a formatted text Message would be the best way. Catch a fish, send a text, if no service, the texts will transmit as soon as you have service. Plus, there's a record of the text filled out.

I don't think the paper form is useful. Has to web automated somehow.

:thumbsup: More gubment BS.

Charge me $10 bucks for a "reef" permit and let me fill out a log via internet each month.

this

More regulations I have to remember not to follow.

The government keeps making non-compliance more of an effort.

Before long, I might actually have to get a driver's license.


Big Al

Good idea. Bad execution. People that don't fish must have thought this up.

So if I leave the dock to go speck fishing at the islands but get a wild hair to head offshore as a spur of the moment decision I will be violating the law because I didn't register before I left? This has to be one of the best ideas the State of Louisiana has come up with since the Toll bridge program was implemented in Golden Meadow. The person who came up with this needs to revisit reality.

So if I leave the dock to go speck fishing at the islands but get a wild hair to head offshore as a spur of the moment decision I will be violating the law because I didn't register before I left? This has to be one of the best ideas the State of Louisiana has come up with since the Toll bridge program was implemented in Golden Meadow. The person who came up with this needs to revisit reality.

Totally agree. One of the beautiful things of boat ownership is deciding on the fly where to go next. I guess they want us to fill out those forms just in case we go, then they will use that application against you if you don't send data to them. Freedom is something that will have to be described in history books. Pretty soon, you will have to fill out a government application to launch your boat.

So if I leave the dock to go speck fishing at the islands but get a wild hair to head offshore as a spur of the moment decision I will be violating the law because I didn't register before I left? This has to be one of the best ideas the State of Louisiana has come up with since the Toll bridge program was implemented in Golden Meadow. The person who came up with this needs to revisit reality.

Like i said... People that don't fish must have thought this up.

And what about the guys you see that are rolling pennies to buy minnows to fish from the pier who borrowed a ride to the pier? They have to have a phone and internet to fish?

I just spoke to Jason, it is actually worst than thought in some areas. Like stated earlier, the harvest report has to be completed at you land fish. On the report it will require date, time, length, species, and block number caught in. Charters have similar rules but it is the captains responsibility, not the anglers. In private boats, it is the anglers.

Also found out about a double edge sword that we may want to address. There will be no possesion of red snapper during the week, even during federal season. I was explained it is this way because all fish are presumed to come from state waters and to spread the quota out over a longer time. This is only for louisiana. If you run to Mississippi or Alabama you will be fine as long as you do not cross state waters. This includes charters.

So if I leave the dock to go speck fishing at the islands but get a wild hair to head offshore as a spur of the moment decision I will be violating the law because I didn't register before I left? This has to be one of the best ideas the State of Louisiana has come up with since the Toll bridge program was implemented in Golden Meadow. The person who came up with this needs to revisit reality.

Yes, you will need the permit. Best thing to do would be to get the number prior to leaving if you think there may be a possibility

[QUOTE=Miss Trial;4774400]Like i said... People that don't fish must have thought this up.

QUOTE]

Believe it or not this guy does fish. He said it is the only way to fight for state managment.

Also found out about a double edge sword that we may want to address. There will be no possesion of red snapper during the week, even during federal season. I was explained it is this way because all fish are presumed to come from state waters and to spread the quota out over a longer time. This is only for louisiana. If you run to Mississippi or Alabama you will be fine as long as you do not cross state waters. This includes charters.

This has got to be wrong.

You may wanna check it out, but this was how the regulation was told to me.

More regulations I have to remember not to follow.

The government keeps making non-compliance more of an effort.

Before long, I might actually have to get a driver's license.


Big Al


I like the way ya think. It's getting way too tough to figure out what we can do legally and what's illegal.

This has got to be wrong.


I hope so. if it's right charter boats will be screwed as far as red snapper go. I would hope that LDWF wouldn't do something so irrational and short sighted but given their history this would be very typical.



Scott

and why not mangroves?? what kind of stupid shit is that?? after all they are considered reef fish... why wouldn't the state want to keep track of how many of those were caught? I guess they don't matter...

What if you drop your pen overboard....jus sayin!....;? Seriously tho, you would think that the paperwork would be required to be completed once you hit the dock, not out on the water. I wonder if this is a measure to keep people from throwing dead fish over once they have caught their limit so they can "exchange" em for bigger fish...;?

Who the hell has time to complete "a landing report for each fish"? I'm busy idling the motor, untangling lines, cutting bait, watching the radar, catching fish, and throwing back 15 inch Red Snapper. Sometimes we have 3 or 4 fish on at a time. What's next, we tag them with GPS transponders? Jeeeesh!!

and why not mangroves?? what kind of stupid shit is that?? after all they are considered reef fish... why wouldn't the state want to keep track of how many of those were caught? I guess they don't matter...

I asked the same question about this and triggerfish. I was told they could both be added later without a problem. He said triggerfish should have been done and mangroves not yet because you can catch them inshore and that opens another can of worms.

I hope so. if it's right charter boats will be screwed as far as red snapper go. I would hope that LDWF wouldn't do something so irrational and short sighted but given their history this would be very typical.



Scott

Said the same thing and was basically told "oh well, if we want regional managment this is what we have to do." I really do not know how well this will hold up.

What if you drop your pen overboard....jus sayin!....;? Seriously tho, you would think that the paperwork would be required to be completed once you hit the dock, not out on the water.

I mentioned this. It looks like the wheels in his head were turning. I recieved a reply of, it will only take a few seconds per fish. I guess in therory but not reality.

I don't fish nor live in LA so I don't have a dog in this hunt. While I have wanted to fish in LA a couple trips a year this is enough to just keep me put in MS.

This isn't regional management but regional tracking. .

I am sure they already have plans for all the money expected from the fines that will be sure to follow.

This isn't regional management but regional tracking.

I am sure that at the root of all of this is that, in order to execute regional management, the states will have to prove that they are capable of executing regional tracking and management on their own. Essentially, LA will need to prove with hard data that they can both manage their own reef fish and that their management plan is effective. This appears to be LA's first stab at a data collection plan. While the intentions are good, what has been proposed now will never work. Very few fisherman will be willing to participate in this proposed plan.

This has got to be wrong.

I raised this question in an earlier thread. Before, our state season has always coincided with the federal season. The feds would set the dates for federal waters, and the states just played along.

Now, since LA has decided to manage its own waters, the seasons will be separate. So if I go out to federal waters and catch red snapper during the week, I am in compliance until I enter state waters, which have a weekend-only season. Once I get there, I have to play by a different set of rules. LA could fix this by modifying their season to cover all of the federal season (not weekends only like proposed) and then allowing harvest of red snapper in state waters on weekends on dates that fall outside of the federal season.

The biggest losers to this entire ill-conceived proposal won't be the Charter Captains it will be the marinas & rodeo's. Venice Marina, Cypress Cove, Bridge Side Marina, Sand Dollar, Breton Sound Marina, Moran's, etc will be put out of business because the overall effect of implementing this type of compliance tool is that the recreational fisherman will stop fishing Louisiana waters. This will also have a very negative effect on all of the non-profits who hold fishing rodeo's across the coast of Louisiana because their attendance numbers will plummet.

The biggest winner from this proposal is the State of Mississippi and Alabama because the recreational fisherman who depart from those docks and fish in waters off the Louisiana coast don't have to comply with this compliance regulation. I know I would move my boat to Mississippi just to avoid the hassle of this being implemented. I would save myself a ton of money due to having some guy on my boat who didn't register and finds himself with a fine when he reaches port. I can assure you that people from Louisiana would move their boats to Orange Beach, Gulfport, Bay St. Louis, etc in a second once this is implemented.

Lastly, what happens to the guy who uses his mobile phone to register in and the phone's battery dies or he drops it over board?

The "intellectual" who thought this up should apply for immediate employment at NOAA because there is a strong demand for "creative thinkers" who think things through over there.

I just spoke to Jason, it is actually worst than thought in some areas. Like stated earlier, the harvest report has to be completed at you land fish. On the report it will require date, time, length, species, and block number caught in. Charters have similar rules but it is the captains responsibility, not the anglers. In private boats, it is the anglers.

Also found out about a double edge sword that we may want to address. There will be no possesion of red snapper during the week, even during federal season. I was explained it is this way because all fish are presumed to come from state waters and to spread the quota out over a longer time. This is only for louisiana. If you run to Mississippi or Alabama you will be fine as long as you do not cross state waters. This includes charters.

Much too complicated...no need to report landings at this time - the main thing that all of the Gulf states need to accomplish is to validate effort to counter the feds' ridiculous claims. Landings can be extrapolated using dock intercepts and other methods, but validating effort is the key.

Having different rules for charter boats and rec boats only invites confusion and contempt.

We ALL need to support the OFS Permit Plan. It is a boat permit, and the captain is required to dial a 1-800 number before he departs the jetties - takes about 1 minute. I have setup a demo number of how this automated voice response system would work - please call and try it out. 1 866 579-2293.

The data derived would go into a database that would be accessible to all, and that could be queried in any manner of ways. How many recreational fishermen fish for pelagics in federal waters out of which ports on July 18, 2012 in the ENTIRE Gulf, or how many just out of Venice, LA, for example. How many were aboard charter boats, headboats, or private boats?

If we don't provide a viable plan at next month's Gulf Council meeting, Sector Separation / Catch Shares are very likely to be thrust upon us whether we want them or not.

PLEASE - let's get behind a Plan that we can all support. I believe the OFS Permit Plan provides laser-accurate data with a minimal amount of intrusion. It should be managed/enforced by each Gulf states' fisheries departments.

Capt. Thomas J. Hilton

Much too complicated...no need to report landings at this time - the main thing that all of the Gulf states need to accomplish is to validate effort to counter the feds' ridiculous claims. Landings can be extrapolated using dock intercepts and other methods, but validating effort is the key.

Having different rules for charter boats and rec boats only invites confusion and contempt.

We ALL need to support the OFS Permit Plan. It is a boat permit, and the captain is required to dial a 1-800 number before he departs the jetties - takes about 1 minute. I have setup a demo number of how this automated voice response system would work - please call and try it out. 1 866 579-2293.

The data derived would go into a database that would be accessible to all, and that could be queried in any manner of ways. How many recreational fishermen fish for pelagics in federal waters out of which ports on July 18, 2012 in the ENTIRE Gulf, or how many just out of Venice, LA, for example. How many were aboard charter boats, headboats, or private boats?

If we don't provide a viable plan at next month's Gulf Council meeting, Sector Separation / Catch Shares are very likely to be thrust upon us whether we want them or not.

PLEASE - let's get behind a Plan that we can all support. I believe the OFS Permit Plan provides laser-accurate data with a minimal amount of intrusion. It should be managed/enforced by each Gulf states' fisheries departments.

Capt. Thomas J. Hilton

Tom, I will have agree and disagree with you a little. Yes, it is way more complicated than it should be. But we all agree we need more information about what is taken each year from the stock. Both plans capture one part of the formula, the effort. We do not know enough about the catch side.

By profession I am a fisheries biologist. I have done the dock side intercepts before and can tell you they are missing most of the data. I think everyone can agree with that point. Louisiana is trying to fill in this gap a little.

Should you have to fill this information out while fishing, no. I proposed the idea of doing it at the dock. I believe most people will fill better about it. I also proposed the idea of reporting it by boat but have each anglers liscence number on the report. They want to know this so they can figure out how many fisherman fish multiple times.

Louisiana is also in the process of completing its own independent stock assessment. It has 3 parts: bottom long lines(traditional method) verticle longlines around rigs and reefs, and diving counts.

With all this information Louisiana will have the information to manage better than the feds

better data equals better management no matter the process
chbaker i assume you are sharing this feedback with your source, and for that i thank you

Initially, I had a hail-in feature to the OFS Permit Plan, but in an attempt to make this process less intrusive, I believe we should start with hail-out only.

If the system is up and running and successful, then perhaps there should be a hail-in aspect, reporting the numbers/species of fish landed/discarded. This takes about 5 minutes of time to punch in by phone.

Identifying effort will dispel the myths that the NMFS is trying to make us believe in order to justify their continued draconian regulations. If anyone out there believes that we took 6 trips last year for every one trip taken in the years 1995-2006, I've got some oceanfront property in Arizona that I can sell you. To claim that we caught the same poundage of fish in 48 days with 2 fish limits as we did with 244 days and 4 fish limits is preposterous.

Identifying effort will put to rest these pie-in-the-sky numbers by the feds.

Louisiana is taking the right steps, but I believe that we can help the process and should have an input on better startegies of how to Get' R Done.

Capt. Thomas J. Hilton

better data equals better management no matter the process
chbaker i assume you are sharing this feedback with your source, and for that i thank you

Yes I am. It would mean more if you guys emailed Jason to tell him your feelings.

I thought I read something about texting, to hail out and receiving a confirmation text, then when going in just reply back with confirmation number along with catches or text when home. Simple enough.

You want people to validate what they caught, but people are too lazy not to do it, how do you achieve that? Penalize. On the other hand, we don't get the information, Crabtree can ram whatever policies they want, and then you wind up QQing. Pick your poison.

Initially, I had a hail-in feature to the OFS Permit Plan, but in an attempt to make this process less intrusive, I believe we should start with hail-out only.

If the system is up and running and successful, then perhaps there should be a hail-in aspect, reporting the numbers/species of fish landed/discarded. This takes about 5 minutes of time to punch in by phone.

Identifying effort will dispel the myths that the NMFS is trying to make us believe in order to justify their continued draconian regulations. If anyone out there believes that we took 6 trips last year for every one trip taken in the years 1995-2006, I've got some oceanfront property in Arizona that I can sell you. To claim that we caught the same poundage of fish in 48 days with 2 fish limits as we did with 244 days and 4 fish limits is preposterous.

Identifying effort will put to rest these pie-in-the-sky numbers by the feds.

Louisiana is taking the right steps, but I believe that we can help the process and should have an input on better startegies of how to Get' R Done.

Capt. Thomas J. Hilton

Number of fish is ok, but if you have a size it is better. This way you can get an age of fish being removed.

The biggest losers to this entire ill-conceived proposal won't be the Charter Captains it will be the marinas & rodeo's. Venice Marina, Cypress Cove, Bridge Side Marina, Sand Dollar, Breton Sound Marina, Moran's, etc will be put out of business because the overall effect of implementing this type of compliance tool is that the recreational fisherman will stop fishing Louisiana waters. This will also have a very negative effect on all of the non-profits who hold fishing rodeo's across the coast of Louisiana because their attendance numbers will plummet.

The biggest winner from this proposal is the State of Mississippi and Alabama because the recreational fisherman who depart from those docks and fish in waters off the Louisiana coast don't have to comply with this compliance regulation. I know I would move my boat to Mississippi just to avoid the hassle of this being implemented. I would save myself a ton of money due to having some guy on my boat who didn't register and finds himself with a fine when he reaches port. I can assure you that people from Louisiana would move their boats to Orange Beach, Gulfport, Bay St. Louis, etc in a second once this is implemented.

Lastly, what happens to the guy who uses his mobile phone to register in and the phone's battery dies or he drops it over board?

The "intellectual" who thought this up should apply for immediate employment at NOAA because there is a strong demand for "creative thinkers" who think things through over there.

I kinda thought the same thing. Best marina in Mississippi is the Biloxi Boardwalk (for dry rack), just started keeping my boat there.

Boardwalk is awesome!