Gulf Coast - Gulf Council meeting in Tampa

The Gulf of Mexico Fishery Management Council meets in Tampa next week. Read this brief overview of what they plan to work on: http://gulfcouncil.blogspot.com/
Submit your comments and let them know what you think!
If you have any questions contact me at [email protected]
p.s. you don't have to like us to 'like' us on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/GulfCouncil

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b5/matt9229/tb%20smilies/popcorn.gif

aint seen you on pff lately

Emily,

Really not sure why they continue to have you come here seeking comment. The respective agencies obviously don't care what we think, and are even less interested in the truth about our fisheries. You are all a joke, and any shred of credibility you once had has long been destroyed by the very obvious political agendas.....

At any rate, please pass this along...... Please ask that they continue trying to take away our God given right to fish! That's right, please tell them to continue pissing on the very people they serve. It's a tremendous boost to our efforts :thumbsup:

Emily,

Really not sure why they continue to have you come here seeking comment. The respective agencies obviously don't care what we think, and are even less interested in the truth about our fisheries. You are all a joke, and any shred of credibility you once had has long been destroyed by the very obvious political agendas.....

At any rate, please pass this along...... Please ask that they continue trying to take away our God given right to fish! That's right, please tell them to continue pissing on the very people they serve. It's a tremendous boost to our efforts :thumbsup:

The attitude you have regarding the worth of public comment is unfortunate. I understand your frustration, but the bottom line is that the Council aims to balance competing interest in the fishery. If you don't spend time sharing your opinions and desires with the Council someone else will, and they may or may not have your interest in mind.

Emily, this question may have been asked before but I haven't heard the answer so here goes .... Is there any provision or adjustment in a 40 day red snapper season for bad weather days? This season in partciular has been bad, especially on weekends and most people don't own 38-60ft boats to go fishing in 5-6 ft seas. Does the council or NOAA collect any data on this or is this the same as not kowing the #of participants in the fishery? I have a 27ft boat and by my count have missed half of the season thus far due to poor weather. Using statistical analysis and a sample size with a shorter measuring period only leads to larger inaccuracies (higher statistical margin of error) if I remember correctly from my statisitcs class. What say you?

. Does the council or NOAA collect any data on this or is this the same as not kowing the #of participants in the fishery?


:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

The attitude you have regarding the worth of public comment is unfortunate. I understand your frustration, but the bottom line is that the Council aims to balance competing interest in the fishery. If you don't spend time sharing your opinions and desires with the Council someone else will, and they may or may not have your interest in mind.

If this is the case, when the council gets confronted about the rules all that is said is that "they(Gulf Council) are simply enforcing NOAA rules handed down to them"? First I ever heard of the council trying to balance concerns.

Skip

I did not write this but is something to look into and a wonderful question??????????????????




We fished from 1995-2006 under a 9.12 million pound TAC for the Gulf Red Snapper, 4 fish per person, and enjoyed 244 day seasons (avg).

Take a look at the NMFS' own numbers attempting to justify the ever-shortening seasons;

1995-2006: Rec TAC = 4,468,800 pounds / 244 = 18,314 pounds per day or 5,723 3.2 pound fish per day with 4 fish daily bag limits.

2012: Rec TAC = 3,959,200 pounds / 40 days = 98,980 pounds per day or 15,227 6.5 pound fish per day with 2 fish daily bag limits.

Seeing as how the CFH fleet has been reduced by 20% in recent years, fuel prices have surged in recent years, bag limits have been slashed by 50% in recent years, multiple reliable sources show a marked DECREASE in offshore effort in recent years, and considering it's illegal for private recreational fishermen to keep multiple daily bag limits per day, please explain EXACTLY how this is possible.

Think about it - how are we supposed to catch almost 3X the number of fish per day with 50% less fish per day to do it? Did I mention we also have 20% LESS charter boats? That equates to about 6 trips per day this year as compared to 1 trip per day during the 1995-2006 baseline period.

(Answer) It's not possible. It's simply cooking of the books by Crabtree and Co. to try to coerce us into accepting Catch Shares/IFQs in the recreational sector.

There needs to be a SERIOUS investigation into this outright fraud designed to convert our Public Trust Resource into privately-owned commodities using contorted, deceitful models and equations that have absolutely no basis in reality.

I believe that we currently have LESS effort offshore than ever before. Couple that with the 8.08 million pound TAC, we SHOULD be fishing at least 194 days per year (probably more), IF realistic effort, landings, and biomass assessments data were used.

Think about it - if we had 200+ day red snapper seasons, would there be any perceived need for catch shares/IFQs in the recreational sector?

Nope. That's why they have artificially truncated our fishing seasons using intentionally-flawed "best available science" to do it.

Criminal, to say the least.

The attitude you have regarding the worth of public comment is unfortunate. I understand your frustration, but the bottom line is that the Council aims to balance competing interest in the fishery. If you don't spend time sharing your opinions and desires with the Council someone else will, and they may or may not have your interest in mind.

No, I'll tell you what's unfortunate. It's unfortunate that the agencies involved continue to screw the public every chance they get, that they refuse to use any meaningful data collection methods, and that we have the shortest snapper season yet while they swarm in the gulf like flies!!!! As for your little p/a warning above, you speak as if there is some meaningful level of legitimacy to these meetings ;? By the way, I did provide comment and meant every word. Gas on the fire can be a great thing sometimes ;)

Is there anything the GFC or NOAA can do to stop rig removal until a better solution is found?

Would the "better solution" have to be presented in order to put a halt on the Idle Iron policy?

Emily, this question may have been asked before but I haven't heard the answer so here goes .... Is there any provision or adjustment in a 40 day red snapper season for bad weather days? This season in partciular has been bad, especially on weekends and most people don't own 38-60ft boats to go fishing in 5-6 ft seas. Does the council or NOAA collect any data on this or is this the same as not kowing the #of participants in the fishery? I have a 27ft boat and by my count have missed half of the season thus far due to poor weather. Using statistical analysis and a sample size with a shorter measuring period only leads to larger inaccuracies (higher statistical margin of error) if I remember correctly from my statisitcs class. What say you?

The short answer to your question is yes bad weather days are accounted for in that the weather effects the fishing effort and the fishing effort is part of what gauges how long it takes to reach a quota.

To expand on that a bit: bad weather is a reason that people would be fishing less.This can be combined with a number of different factors that may drive down effort: gas prices, economy, etc. When assessing how many folks went fishing NOAA does not ask about the many factors that effect ones ability to fish (like weather) they simply ask: did you fish?
a metaphor: if you wanted to know how may days I came to work this week you would likely just ask me. Asking me how many days this week I had a headache (like asking about bad weather) would not answer your question.

When NOAA estimated 40 days it was based on fishing effort, which is influenced by factors like weather. The 40 day determination was based off of trends from past snapper fishing seasons. Anglers were surveyed about how often they were fishing and what they were catching during the season and those results are used to estimate fishing trends for the following season (right now).

If indeed this years weather is worse that it has been in the past years, enough so that effort is not what it was predicted to be based on the trends of years past, then there will be quota left. If there is left over quota then I imagine the Council will consider a supplemental fall season.

And, yes shorter sample period = more uncertainty if all other factors remain the same. Increasing # of samples taken in the shorter period will compensate.

Is there anything the GFC or NOAA can do to stop rig removal until a better solution is found?

Would the "better solution" have to be presented in order to put a halt on the Idle Iron policy?

Read this Blog about what we've done and what we're doing:
http://gulfcouncil.blogspot.com/2012/06/normal.html

If this is the case, when the council gets confronted about the rules all that is said is that "they(Gulf Council) are simply enforcing NOAA rules handed down to them"? First I ever heard of the council trying to balance concerns.

Skip

Skip, the Council is indeed limited by federal law (the Magnuson Stevens Act). That law gives us certain conditions: most importantly we can't overfish and must rebuild overfish stocks.
If the science tells us that we have to reduce fishing we have to take action and don't have a choice. We do have control over what action we take to accomplish that reduction - that's where balancing the interests comes in. Should we reduce bag limits, seasons, etc.Thats when the Council asks the public would you rather see this change or this change..

a metaphor: congress mandates that the Council serve a turkey sandwich. We must give you a turkey sandwich, but we can choose, with your suggestions, what toppings to put on that turkey sandwich: tomato, mayo, stuffing, cranberry sauce, etc. Unfortunately, everyone who gets the turkey sandwich must agree on the toppings and its really difficult to make a sandwich that pleases everyone (especially if you don't like turkey).

a metaphor: congress mandates that the Council serve a turkey sandwich. We must give you a turkey sandwich, but we can choose, with your suggestions, what toppings to put on that turkey sandwich: tomato, mayo, stuffing, cranberry sauce, etc. Unfortunately, everyone who gets the turkey sandwich must agree on the toppings and its really difficult to make a sandwich that pleases everyone (especially if you don't like turkey).

don't you f'ing dare come on here and patronize us, emily
how many days did i snapper fish last year, and how many snapper did i catch?

When NOAA estimated 40 days it was based on fishing effort, which is influenced by factors like weather. The 40 day determination was based off of trends from past snapper fishing seasons. Anglers were surveyed about how often they were fishing and what they were catching during the season and those results are used to estimate fishing trends for the following season (right now).


Gandy Girl-

When anglers were surveyed, what was the average days fished and how many anglers are surveyed? Does this survey include commercial and recreational anglers?

The short answer to your question is yes bad weather days are accounted for in that the weather effects the fishing effort and the fishing effort is part of what gauges how long it takes to reach a quota.

To expand on that a bit: bad weather is a reason that people would be fishing less.This can be combined with a number of different factors that may drive down effort: gas prices, economy, etc. When assessing how many folks went fishing NOAA does not ask about the many factors that effect ones ability to fish (like weather) they simply ask: did you fish?
a metaphor: if you wanted to know how may days I came to work this week you would likely just ask me. Asking me how many days this week I had a headache (like asking about bad weather) would not answer your question.

When NOAA estimated 40 days it was based on fishing effort, which is influenced by factors like weather. The 40 day determination was based off of trends from past snapper fishing seasons. Anglers were surveyed about how often they were fishing and what they were catching during the season and those results are used to estimate fishing trends for the following season (right now).

If indeed this years weather is worse that it has been in the past years, enough so that effort is not what it was predicted to be based on the trends of years past, then there will be quota left. If there is left over quota then I imagine the Council will consider a supplemental fall season.

And, yes shorter sample period = more uncertainty if all other factors remain the same. Increasing # of samples taken in the shorter period will compensate.


Drive down effort you say??? The things you mention have been in play for a while. Gas prices have more than doubled. economy has been in the crapper for a while and yet we still reach our TAC faster and faster each year. HA!!!! What a joke

Skip, the Council is indeed limited by federal law (the Magnuson Stevens Act).
If the SCIENCE tells us that we have to reduce fishing we have to take action and don't have a choice. We do have control over what action we take to accomplish that reduction - that's where balancing the interests comes in. Should we reduce bag limits, seasons, etc.Thats when the Council asks the public would you rather see this change or this change..



What is this "SCIENCE" you speak of? Can you tell me how many days I fished last year? How many snapper did I harvest? I'll make it really easy on you.. How many snapper trips have I made this year? You ( GFC ) have no idea.... But you will pull numbers outta thin air and that equals junk science. :mad::mad::mad:

Junk science in = Junk science out

With the cost of fuel, the length of the run from our port and the 2 fish limit many of us do not even target snapper. 80/fuel per man for 2 fish? I can go buy snapper much cheaper. The fact is the snapper population of the coast of LA, MS, and AL, and even into the panhandle is astronomical. Its my understanding the survey is gulf wide and thats why our allotment is so small. After talking with conservation officers from AL, I feel the limits should be different based on state, or port.

don't you f'ing dare come on here and patronize us, emily
how many days did i snapper fish last year, and how many snapper did i catch?

I in no way meant to come across as patronizing you, its a metaphor I came up with last Thanksgiving while talking to my family about the Council responsibility vs. NOAA responsibility in fisheries management. I'm sorry it offended you.
I don't know how many days you fished or how many snapper you caught. NOAA Fisheries has and calculates all that information not me nor the Council.

then why don't you have someone from NOAA come here and explain it to us?

Gandy Girl-

When anglers were surveyed, what was the average days fished and how many anglers are surveyed? Does this survey include commercial and recreational anglers?


In 2010 50,063 intercept surveys were conducted and 920,728 phone surveys were done. This information excludes the state of Texas who collects their own data.

NOAA, not the Council, collects and analyzes the data. To figure out how many trips were taken use this website to query the info you're looking for:
http://www.st.nmfs.noaa.gov/st1/recreational/queries/index.html

then why don't you have someone from NOAA come here and explain it to us?

I don't have any control over that.

Gandy Girl-

Does this survey include commercial and recreational anglers?

I failed to answer this part of your question in my previous response.
This is only for recreational data collection. Commercial data is collected much differently, especially in the red snapper fishery.
Each commercial boat is equipped with an electronic Vessel Monitoring System that tracks what the boat is doing. Commercial boats must hail out (declare when they are leaving the dock) and hail back in a few hours before they expect to arrive on shore. Those vessels can only land at a licensed seafood dealer where both dealer and boat capt. fill out reports detailing how many fish are onboard.

Emily, I do appreciate the reply whether I agree or not. As you know statisitical questions can shape the participants answer to the surveyor's liking which in turn tells the story that NOAA desires to be told. In any case where a survey is validated by ten percent of the vessels (supposedly) with three vessels being the accepted minimum number the margin of error would be great it seems to me. We are talking about millions of pounds of fish aren't we? This is what upsets us.
The science is not understood even by those that care to try and no real satisfying explanation is given. If NOAA and Mr. Crabtree are shoving this down the council's throat then I'm sorry to say this is a typical government move to wait everyone out and temporarily appease the masses until the desired resuklt can be achieved without much resistance. It's a distraction tactic, all the while NOAA is sitting on the riverbank waiting on the bodies of their enemies to float by. I'm sorry to say the Gulf Council is useless and appears to be getting used by the government to keep the volume down. It's disappointing for those of you that give your time and effort to the council to seemingly be used as puppets but I am sincere in saying I appreciate your response. Everyone must continue to fund CCA and RFA and bug the heck out of your politicians. Gulf
Council seems to be a buffer. (sorry Emily)

no problem flyjag. one of the more polite disagreements I've encountered ;)
Shoot me an email at [email protected] and I will send you a copy of the dockside survey.

mangun stevens act, hocky, congress told noaa to reform the stevens act, they never have, they pushed ahead with catch shares anyway, even asked congress for 54 millon to push it ahead, king obama signed the protection of the sea order with no votes, he was asked for 15 more days for public comment, he said no, you have been proved wrong about no big snapper in gulf, sam walton, on board edf, 70 millon dollars donated to antifishing groups, pew 186,0000. wasnt jane working with sam before obama hired her, no, theres no secret agenda, ha, my a##. didnt congress and the senate vote not to fund any more catch share attempts in the future, something stinks in denmark, and more people are seeing it, i saw it years ago.god bless rfa, curse noaa, the government has ruined every thing they had a hand in

the government has ruined every thhing they had a hand in

:thumbsup:

Time to move to Costa RIco......

Emily,

You cannot honestly say that voicing your opinion at the meeting has any effect. I was at the meeting in Mobile, AL. The council looked bored out of their mind and could not wait to get out of there. THEY did not care what anyone had to say, they just wanted the day to end so they could leave and not hear us bitching anymore.

Having said that, I will be at the meeting next year to bitch and bore them to tears.

Maclin

Skip, the Council is indeed limited by federal law (the Magnuson Stevens Act). That law gives us certain conditions: most importantly we can't overfish and must rebuild overfish stocks.
If the science tells us that we have to reduce fishing we have to take action and don't have a choice. We do have control over what action we take to accomplish that reduction - that's where balancing the interests comes in. Should we reduce bag limits, seasons, etc.Thats when the Council asks the public would you rather see this change or this change..

a metaphor: congress mandates that the Council serve a turkey sandwich. We must give you a turkey sandwich, but we can choose, with your suggestions, what toppings to put on that turkey sandwich: tomato, mayo, stuffing, cranberry sauce, etc. Unfortunately, everyone who gets the turkey sandwich must agree on the toppings and its really difficult to make a sandwich that pleases everyone (especially if you don't like turkey).

Your metaphor is an example of the sheepole mentality. :banghead: Here lies the problem that so many people are buying into. I do have a choice and if I don't want a turkey sandwich i will eat something else.

I was at a bait shop and heard a guy say he wouldnt give them any information to use against us, meaning he was not going to agree to let them check his fish. I thought that was kind of funny, until I saw them at the ramp, I was on the boat on the trailer when it was getting pulled out. They asked as the boat was getting pulled out and we just kept going. I dont feel the need to help them limit our resources anymore. I am not going to break the law, but I would imagine they have turned most sportsman against them. I dont know whats more ridiculous the snapper limit or the removal of the oil rigs and then the states paying to put down artificial reefs.

We are pretty much screwed guys.... they played the divide and conquer to tee.... we all fell for it yrs ago.... the feds will someday soon give us a 10 day season on all our species we love to catch... Maybe we will take back our country someday and maybe someday our elected officials will work for us again and not to their own "agenda" Ur doing a great job Emily.... and i feel your pain everytime you post on here because you basically get beat up against the wall... :( Anyways guys.... keep up the fight and vote these freaking pricks out of office... i remember growing up as a kid and my dad telling me there isnt anything i could do... well i dont have any kids now and kinda glad... because the dream is pretty much dead.... thank you washington for pretty much destroying the america....

Emily, I understand you and the GC are kind of a "middle man":grin: but if you REALLY want to do us and the vast majority of anglers a favor on the flavor of that sandwhich, "input" to NOAA that their jig is up and unless they do an about face with their current fishery agenda which has been based on their "science", they will all be looking for new jobs....

We, the majority, have became very aware of the current agenda by this administration, enviromentalists and all like-minded folks to slowly curtail, in this case fishing, the use and oppurtunity of our waters, as evidenced by ridiculous laws on bag limits, closures, seasons, ect...in the name of conservation.

You see, it has been suttle over the years...ARS, for example....minimum size is _____ and bag limit is _____. As years have passed, the minimum size has grown to______ and the bag limit has been reduced to______ based on "science", and some of this "science" based on the recreational sector.:o All the while, anglers from all over the gulf are reporting the over abundance of ARS, wasting their breath telling "councils" and public officials. Many of us are tired of our words falling on deaf or uninterested ears.

There is a difference in conservation and a blatant, enviro agenda...no one is condemning conservation. But most are fed up with the continuous suppresion cast upon the masses in the guise of conservation that is led by enviromental fascists and nutcases, again, as evidenced by the nonsensical laws and regulations.

So, Emily, please go tell NOAA and all that are concerned that tell you and the council it will be "turkey" for the masses that we are tired of "turkey"....we would prefer our choice of sandwhich meat and if they continue to only have "turkey", we are gonna choose a new supplier....but for them, I am afraid their turkey has spoiled and new suppilers are in the works....but tell'em nontheless.;)

.

In 2010 50,063 intercept surveys were conducted and 920,728 phone surveys were done. This information excludes the state of Texas who collects their own data.

I suppose this would explain why Texas has had their own snapper season and been non-compliant for years. They actually have real data.

Candy Girl, I am so happy to finally have someone who represents NOAA (judging from your posts, I assume that you do) on this site so I can tell you that I, and a growing number of other sovereign individuals, are no longer going to be pulled along in the direction that the unconstitutional agencies such as NOAA would like. You all have proven to me time and time again that you do not care one iota for our individual liberties as citizens of the free and individual states that make up this union. You will side step the constitution every chance that you get, and in my mind that is treason. When people deem a government to be noncompliant with the laws stated in their governing document, it is their duty to disobey it and do everything in their power to force its compliance with that document. If your organization continually changes the rules of the game, we will not play the game anymore. Take it for what it's worth, Candy Girl.

I in no way meant to come across as patronizing you, its a metaphor I came up with last Thanksgiving while talking to my family about the Council responsibility vs. NOAA responsibility in fisheries management. I'm sorry it offended you.
I don't know how many days you fished or how many snapper you caught. NOAA Fisheries has and calculates all that information not me nor the Council.

No, NOAA Fisheries has no idea how much any of us fished, nor how many fish we caught. Show me the 'science' on this that you mentioned in another post.

You are one of the most insulting people I have ever come across in cyberia. We don't need your metaphors, as we are nowhere near the rubes you consider us to be. We are more than capable of understanding the hierarchies involved, the related law, and the chasm that exists between your stated mission and the results you have generated.

Please do us a favor, and abstain from posting here.

You remind me of Baghdad Bob.


Big Al

Emily, I do appreciate the reply whether I agree or not. As you know statisitical questions can shape the participants answer to the surveyor's liking which in turn tells the story that NOAA desires to be told. In any case where a survey is validated by ten percent of the vessels (supposedly) with three vessels being the accepted minimum number the margin of error would be great it seems to me. We are talking about millions of pounds of fish aren't we? This is what upsets us.
The science is not understood even by those that care to try and no real satisfying explanation is given. If NOAA and Mr. Crabtree are shoving this down the council's throat then I'm sorry to say this is a typical government move to wait everyone out and temporarily appease the masses until the desired resuklt can be achieved without much resistance. It's a distraction tactic, all the while NOAA is sitting on the riverbank waiting on the bodies of their enemies to float by. I'm sorry to say the Gulf Council is useless and appears to be getting used by the government to keep the volume down. It's disappointing for those of you that give your time and effort to the council to seemingly be used as puppets but I am sincere in saying I appreciate your response. Everyone must continue to fund CCA and RFA and bug the heck out of your politicians. Gulf
Council seems to be a buffer. (sorry Emily)

Great assessment Mark

tomorrow,s the 15, because of the bad weather we have only fished one day, only caught kings, last year i only got about 6 snapper due to bad weather.

Saturday
East winds around 20 knots diminishing to 15 to 20 knots in the afternoon. Seas 4 to 6 feet. Bays and coastal waterways choppy to rough. Chance of showers and thunderstorms. A Small Craft Advisory may be required.
Saturday Night
East winds 15 to 20 knots. Seas 3 to 5 feet. Bays and coastal waterways choppy to rough.
Sunday
Southeast winds 15 to 20 knots. Seas 3 to 5 feet. Bays and coastal waterways choppy to rough. Slight chance of showers and thunderstorms.
Sunday Night
Southeast winds 10 to 15 knots becoming east after midnight. Seas 2 to 4 feet. Bays and coastal waterways a light to moderate chop.
Monday
East winds 10 to 15 knots becoming southeast around 15 knots in the afternoon. Seas 3 to 5 feet. Bays and coastal waterways a light to moderate chop becoming mostly choppy in the afternoon.
Monday Night
Southeast winds 15 to 20 knots. Seas 4 to 6 feet. Bays and coastal waterways choppy to rough.
Tuesday
Southeast winds 15 to 20 knots. Seas 4 to 6 feet. Bays and coastal waterways choppy to rough. Isolated showers and thunderstorms.
Tuesday Night
Southeast winds 15 to 20 knots. Seas 4 to 6 feet. Bays and coastal waterways choppy to rough. Isolated showers and thunderstorms.

GandyGirl when are you guys going to do something about the commercial Menhaden fishery in the Northern Gulf of Mexico that is destroying the fishery?

Saturday
East winds around 20 knots diminishing to 15 to 20 knots in the afternoon. Seas 4 to 6 feet. Bays and coastal waterways choppy to rough. Chance of showers and thunderstorms. A Small Craft Advisory may be required.
Saturday Night
East winds 15 to 20 knots. Seas 3 to 5 feet. Bays and coastal waterways choppy to rough.
Sunday
Southeast winds 15 to 20 knots. Seas 3 to 5 feet. Bays and coastal waterways choppy to rough. Slight chance of showers and thunderstorms.
Sunday Night
Southeast winds 10 to 15 knots becoming east after midnight. Seas 2 to 4 feet. Bays and coastal waterways a light to moderate chop.
Monday
East winds 10 to 15 knots becoming southeast around 15 knots in the afternoon. Seas 3 to 5 feet. Bays and coastal waterways a light to moderate chop becoming mostly choppy in the afternoon.
Monday Night
Southeast winds 15 to 20 knots. Seas 4 to 6 feet. Bays and coastal waterways choppy to rough.
Tuesday
Southeast winds 15 to 20 knots. Seas 4 to 6 feet. Bays and coastal waterways choppy to rough. Isolated showers and thunderstorms.
Tuesday Night
Southeast winds 15 to 20 knots. Seas 4 to 6 feet. Bays and coastal waterways choppy to rough. Isolated showers and thunderstorms.

dude!!!! she already said they accounted the weather!!!! they knew that we would have 2 bad weekends in a row!!!! their science figured it out already!!!!! they are the smartest people in the world!!!!! and we are all dumb rednecks.... 2 words guys.... FUCK NOAA!!!!

GandyGirl when are you guys going to do something about the commercial Menhaden fishery in the Northern Gulf of Mexico that is destroying the fishery?

I asked them this same question with no response.

Got an answer about menhaden. Here is the link:

http://www.facebook.com/GulfCouncil/posts/397478610289492?notif_t=feed_comment

Evidently there are multiple agencies that manage different types of fish in the gulf. Should have known

I guess we scared her off with our first hand accounts of the actual state of the fishery.
Mac

What is happening is they are weaning us off of fishing. They continue to reduce catch limits, aggregate total, reduce seasons, etc....all in furtherance of the policy to reduce the recreational fishing to the please of fishing itself no "take fish" no kill fish".....google NOAA vision for the 2020.....

I have a question or two for you Gandy Girl if you care to respond,

" Is NOAA's current position regarding fish quotas a result of Bill Clinton's directive that all federal agencies should implement policies and directives identified in Agenda 21 ."

"Does NOAA's regulations regarding the regulation of fishing further the goal of Agenda 21 and the Rio summit in 1992 as directed by US president Bill Clinton?"

I await your response.

oooops.... google NOAA vision 2020 to see whay their goal for recc fisherman...pg 18-19

Typical. They will ask for opinions and participation in all their meetings. They will invite questions and answer without really answering, but they will continue to have a conversation, which is only meant to distract us. But boy, once you bring up Agenda 21, no more conversation.

thats right...this isnt about overfishing the stock....this is about forwarding a policy of our govt to ultimately end to fishing as we know it

GandyGirl:

Could you find out what statistical distribution that NOAA thinks the data fits and what confidence interval they are placing around the estimates?

RD

2 weekends straight of bad weather..... man it sucks we meet our quota on the first weekend.... please go to the meetings and voice your "opinion"....SCREW THAT!!!!! vote these jerkoffs out guys!!!!! Fire everyone of them!!!!! Im sure the feds can find other uses for these "scientist" and "voices"... We will soon be catching ERS in mobile bay.... and these communist will say they are still endagered... again i will say... FUCK NOAA!!!!!

2 weekends straight of bad weather..... man it sucks we meet our quota on the first weekend.... please go to the meetings and voice your "opinion"....SCREW THAT!!!!! vote these jerkoffs out guys!!!!! Fire everyone of them!!!!! Im sure the feds can find other uses for these "scientist" and "voices"... We will soon be catching ERS in mobile bay.... and these communist will say they are still endagered... again i will say... FUCK NOAA!!!!!


That's the problem, they were not voted in. They were appointed to essentially make laws, which only Congress has the power to do under the Constitution. We're past voting. Civil disobedience is the only moral way forward in my opinion. When a man deems a law to be immoral, it is his duty as a free citizen to disobey it.

In 2010 50,063 intercept surveys were conducted and 920,728 phone surveys were done.

Those numbers seem inexplicably high to me. On this forum somone started a thread asking members how many times they had been surveyed. Here on a forum with a lot of very passionate fishers, IIRC only 2 had ever been surveyed in their entire lifetimes and one of those was a charter captain.

Those numbers seem inexplicably high to me. On this forum somone started a thread asking members how many times they had been surveyed. Here on a forum with a lot of very passionate fishers, IIRC only 2 had ever been surveyed in their entire lifetimes and one of those was a charter captain.

I thought the exact same thing. 50k in person interviews in 40 some odd days. no way!!

18 days now of bad weather,and still dont have any snapper, this whole week is 2 to 4.because no one has been able to fish for snapper they have grown larger, so next year there will be a 14 day season, You can catch all the snapper you want in pensacola bay now.

I don't work for NOAA Fisheries.
MacKnight22- I can't respond for NOAA because I don't know anything about NOAAs interaction with Agenda 21. I suggest you email the public information officer at the NOAA regional office: [email protected]
This also applies to the NOAA Vision 2020 - the Council played no part in the development of that vision and therefore can not take responsibility for its contents.
RD Redfish- I don't know what their confidence intervals are, I suggest you contact the MRIP folks and ask them about the specifics of their modeling at [email protected]
ReelJustice- The Council does not manage menhaden the Gulf States Fisheries Commission does.

This is the most frustrating part of this experience to me. I try to be a good citizen, to legally affect change in light of obvious errors by our government, and no one can even seem to answer a single question. "Oh, that's someone else's department." or "I don't know what model they are using." or "I suggest you contact someone else." There's just no end to it.

The empirical evidence points to an overabundance of ARS, but the science from our own government tells us there aren't enough fish. They say they are collecting surveys at a ridiculous rate, but we can't find anyone who's been surveyed. We want to vote for change, only to find that the folks who need to hit the road have been appointed. Enough, already.

If I catch ARS outside of the season, I'll keep them. If I catch more than two, I'll keep them. My government has driven me to this. If they refuse to govern by the rules of a democracy, why should we follow the "rules"? It would be great to have enough folks simply continue to harvest, snubbing their noses at the system that is so obviously broken, that the system simply fails. Maybe then we can start a new conversation about what works for conservation.

Maybe it's time for a revolution...

need to buy them all a free trip to mexico. keep your confederate money, the south may rise again, sons of confederate veterans fishing team

winds still 15 to 20 mph 16 days now, as was opening day, only 16 days left.

I don't work for NOAA Fisheries.
MacKnight22- I can't respond for NOAA because I don't know anything about NOAAs interaction with Agenda 21. I suggest you email the public information officer at the NOAA regional office: [email protected]
This also applies to the NOAA Vision 2020 - the Council played no part in the development of that vision and therefore can not take responsibility for its contents.
RD Redfish- I don't know what their confidence intervals are, I suggest you contact the MRIP folks and ask them about the specifics of their modeling at [email protected]
ReelJustice- The Council does not manage menhaden the Gulf States Fisheries Commission does.

Just like I said, they answer without really answering, and when you mention Agenda 21 it's "oh, I don't know anything about that. Contact Joe Blow (who will also answer without really answering)." Get the idea? When are we going to stop playing their game, and force them to play ours? That's right, just keep on asking those questions until one day we all wake up, and we have no more rights at all, game over. I am finished with questions.

I think we need to hold a snapper tournement july 15th.... put the buy in at 25 bucks a person.... the boat that can get thru the hoops and arrive at the docs without a ticket wins :) they cant catch us all :) And FYI.... i was a yankee 7 yrs ago... if the south is gonna rise again i am sooooo in!!!!!!! and to stay consistant..... FUCK NOAA!!!!! :)

I think we need to hold a snapper tournement july 15th.... put the buy in at 25 bucks a person.... the boat that can get thru the hoops and arrive at the docs without a ticket wins :) they cant catch us all :) And FYI.... i was a yankee 7 yrs ago... if the south is gonna rise again i am sooooo in!!!!!!! and to stay consistant..... FUCK NOAA!!!!! :)

haha. I do think we need to have a "National Snapper Day" that is out of season. I proposed this with the Reclaim Our Gulf thread I started back in Feb. It would take a consolidated effort, but I def agree it would send a clear, united message.

Begin by contacting your state and federal representatives and raising hell on this issue! Right now a conference is going on in Rio to further entrench and obligate govts around the world on Agenda 21 dictates. An article and the link is below.Seadontist is right on point, if you dont do something NOW (yes thats shouting) you will wake up when its too late and you have no rights and our country is run by the UN....can you imagine being told by people that dont live here how to run our country and if we can purchase a product...like a car? Tell everyone you know about what is going on. We have to get the word out on this.


http://cnsnews.com/blog/paul-wilson/un-official-western-nations-dont-need-more-cars-more-tv-whatever

Gandy Girl...your comments are to be expected and typical.

Is this Gandy Girl. Once agian we, (the recreational fishermen) are once agian getting screwed right out of the water. I myself haven't been snapper fishing 1 frigging day this year due to the weather. The 1 day I have of from work is spent cussing at NOAA, the council, and the weather. Since when does Science trump Common Sense? I guess every time when it comes to govt agencies. There is no way we are meeting our TAC based on all the actual facts. I feel like throwing up right now. Y'all don't care about us and certainly don't know what the heck y'all are talking about. No offense but no matter how y'all try to spin this, y'all are wrong!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:mad::mad::mad:

From what I understand, the sector separation issue has now been combined with the grouper and red snapper allocation issues making one scoping document that combines sector separation, grouper allocations, and red snapper allocations. The allocation issue has been between commercial and recreational but will now be to discuss allocations among private recreational, recreational charter, recreational headboat, guide, and commercial.

What a cluster.....

This is it ladies and gentlemen - I told you SS would not go to scoping on it's own. It is time for each and every one of us, including women and children, to show up at the upcoming scoping meetings to show an OVERWHELMING opposition to this scam. If you don't show, you can be assured that this amendment will pass.

Capt. Thomas J. Hilton

If anyone has these meeting dates, times and places would they please post them to an anchored thread

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9evQ3_vVq8&feature=youtube_gdata_player

10days or less left, havent got out yet. Zilch snapper tried fri, tropical storm in gulf, they will be eating divers before long, no triggers, no aj, and now they want to catch share kings, im collecting weapons for the end of days.

10days or less left, havent got out yet. Zilch snapper tried fri, tropical storm in gulf, they will be eating divers before long, no triggers, no aj, and now they want to catch share kings, im collecting weapons for the end of days.

dont forget bullets bro.... never can have enough.... :thumbsup: