Dockside Chat - Colorado's "Make My Day Law" enforced on Female College Student

This young female college student is lucky to be alive...and of course alcohol involved...strange story.

http://gma.yahoo.com/video/news-26797925/colorado-college-student-shot-while-trespassing-29473431.html

Maybe not so strange. According to the report it has happened multiple time before and seems like it will continue.

She is lucky to be alive. This could have turned out MUCH worse.

Being drunk is no excuse IMO but once again, in the end, no jail time will be spent.


I think I told the story here years ago about a drunk neighbor trying to get into my house, thinking he was at his own house. Luckily the door was locked. I didn't know he was drunk at the time it was happening or if there were others out there in my vehicles stealing stuff.
I didn't have a gun then but if he were to have gotten the door open or I would have not locked it and he was in the house, my adrenalin was so high, when it came to fight or flight? Let's just say I wasn't going anywhere and it would not have began with me asking him questions.


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Maybe not so strange. According to the report it has happened multiple time before and seems like it will continue.

She is lucky to be alive. This could have turned out MUCH worse.

Being drunk is no excuse IMO but once again, in the end, no jail time will be spent.

I expect you're right about the jail time. She, and everyone who knows her, needs to have the crap scared out of them first by the threat of serious prosecution on a felony charge. Without fear of consequences, the incidents will continue. Sounds like the bullet scar won't be in a publically-visible place- too bad, as a visible scar also creates fear of consequences.

Make my day law (http://www.thehulltruth.com/dockside-chat/428879-make-my-day-law.html)

http://www.thehulltruth.com/dockside-chat/428879-make-my-day-law.html
I just don't know how a person gets that drunk/high. If when it does happen they have to take the blame or consequences.

The "Anti-Gun" crowd will use this as another reason law abiding citizens should not have guns.

"She was an innocent young girl that meant no harm"

BS


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"She was an innocent young girl that meant no harm"

BS





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That's what her lawyer says.

She is certainly not the victim and if she was the messed up then she could have gotten behind the wheel of a car or worse.

The message needs to be sent that you are responsible for your actions drunk or sober. Being shot is not punishment enough it was just a bonus.

Of course it is terrible that she was shot but next time it could be a murderous thug. The homeowners didnt know until it was to late it would seem.

Of course it is terrible that she was shot but next time it could be a murderous thug. The homeowners didnt know until it was to late it would seem.

When we hunt, we are taught from the get-go to make sure of our target before pulling the trigger. Did the homeowners actually make sure that they were under seige, or that the girl was a threat?

LOTs of times, people have wandered into the wrong house, car, dorm room, apartment while they were hammered.

When we hunt, we are taught from the get-go to make sure of our target before pulling the trigger. Did the homeowners actually make sure that they were under seige, or that the girl was a threat?

LOTs of times, people have wandered into the wrong house, car, dorm room, apartment while they were hammered.

someone who is unwelcome enters your house, in the dark, while you are sleeping.....I'll bet dollars to donuts you don't stop to see if its some harmless little kitten. You don't have time to turn on the lights, see who it is, ask em if they want some water or need to pee, then shoot em. She's lucky to be alive IMO.

When we hunt, we are taught from the get-go to make sure of our target before pulling the trigger. Did the homeowners actually make sure that they were under seige, or that the girl was a threat?

LOTs of times, people have wandered into the wrong house, car, dorm room, apartment while they were hammered.

If they were hunting I believe we would all agree.

Stupid decisions have BAD consequences sometimes.

someone who is unwelcome enters your house, in the dark, while you are sleeping.....I'll bet dollars to donuts you don't stop to see if its some harmless little kitten. You don't have time to turn on the lights, see who it is, ask em if they want some water or need to pee, then shoot em. She's lucky to be alive IMO.

Would they be Dunkin Donuts or Krispy Kreme? ;)

You are correct, interviewing the intruder to see their intent is the last thing I would do....
"Um excuse me there stranger in my house at night in the dark in our bedroom. My wife and I have been awakened from a sound sleep, are currently scared $h!tless and we have a gun aimed right at you, please do tell, are you friend or foe?" ;?
"If we are going to shoot you, we want it to be all legal like, you know?"


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When we hunt, we are taught from the get-go to make sure of our target before pulling the trigger. Did the homeowners actually make sure that they were under seige, or that the girl was a threat?

LOTs of times, people have wandered into the wrong house, car, dorm room, apartment while they were hammered.



I've never read a post of yours that made less sense, you usually have a good sense of right and wrong but equating hunting and an intruder is not even close.

When hunting you are taught to expect the unexpected, there could be a child out walking around in the woods, so we need to make certain of your target.

When I'm at home in the comfort of my own bed and someone has balls enough to try my bedroom door (which in my case is usually never closed), and continue to try it even after they are told to leave needs a wakeup call.

Picture how your heart must be pounding, you may not have heard a sound until they were close or at your door. The decision to grab a gun is not an easy one knowing what can go on in this country sometimes. your heart is pounding, you and your wife are on the floor kneeling behind the bed with your gun aimed at the door. It's dark, you call out, "DON'T COME IN HERE!" , yet they continue. Oh my God, the fear that a strange person has such balls to pursue coming into your bedroom not knowing if you are armed or not. THAT IS BALLS! They get the door open, it's dark but you see a silhouette and you say, howdy, come on in or you say bang, bang your dead?

The MF on the other side of that door threshold will be lucky to be alive, 90#'s or not.

I don't keep my house pitch dark for that reason, but even a cute "kitten" could have a gun, and be planning on using it on you.

Invading someone else's home at night isn't funny no matter what the excuse.

That is how elisabeth smart was kidnapped,...with the help of the guys wife.

She could have been stealing something.

Oh and I also lock my doors so entry would not be an accident. Gun should be last defence, not the first one.

It's nice that we can all respect each other while offering divergent opinions about what we do not know as fact.......:thumbsup:


I've never read a post of yours that made less sense, you usually have a good sense of right and wrong but equating hunting and an intruder is not even close.


The point attempting to be made was.....make sure of your target for the purposes of pulling the trigger.



When hunting you are taught to expect the unexpected, there could be a child out walking around in the woods, so we need to make certain of your target.

Agreed. In this particular instance, were the homeowners being...er, harrassed or in any way physically threatended? That's my question about why they shot so quickly.



When I'm at home in the comfort of my own bed and someone has balls enough to try my bedroom door (which in my case is usually never closed), and continue to try it even after they are told to leave needs a wakeup call.

Agreed, but have you ever tried to reason with a co-worker, kid, husband/wife when they were hammered? We have to give slack for the kind of things that are all too common.



Picture how your heart must be pounding, you may not have heard a sound until they were close or at your door. The decision to grab a gun is not an easy one knowing what can go on in this country sometimes. your heart is pounding, you and your wife are on the floor kneeling behind the bed with your gun aimed at the door. It's dark, you call out, "DON'T COME IN HERE!" , yet they continue. Oh my God, the fear that a strange person has such balls to pursue coming into your bedroom not knowing if you are armed or not. THAT IS BALLS! They get the door open, it's dark but you see a silhouette and you say, howdy, come on in or you say bang, bang your dead?


For your argument to succeed, you have to completely Eliminate the obvious fact that the person they (supposedly) shouted warnings to....was in command of her senses.

The situation tells us that she was not.

They coulda'/shoulda' been able to figure that out, shouldn't they? To use your description, they were pretty darned safe being behind a bed, and pretty darned secure having a gun and knowing the geography of their place against a person that has never been there (excepting a previous post about the girl maybe being a mistress...in which case the guy shooting her would hope to heck that she died...for obvious reasons)

The MF on the other side of that door threshold will be lucky to be alive, 90#'s or not.

Gun should be last defense, not the first one.


Seems that your statement is a whole lot easier to understand than the crap that I've been writing. kudos to capn billl.

Do you guys that profess to have done the same thing to the girl actually think that your lives would be seen the same by yourselves, by the courts, by your friends....for shooting a defenseless and incapacitated young girl when the most provable harm she posed was...........er, NOTHING.

The most she did "wrong" was enter the wrong house.


??????????????? How'd she get in? If the house was unlocked, will you guys relent a bit on how fast you'd shoot her? I'm just sayin'

It's nice that we can all respect each other while offering divergent opinions about what we do not know as fact.......:thumbsup:

You and I don't know what might have been going on in their mind, but I tell you this, it just as easily have been a hopped up pill pusher with an ax in his her hand. How are they supposed to figure that out. Remember they don't know what's going on in that other persons mind and sure they are "safe" sort of behind that bed but the person could have had a shot gun or anything for that matter.

I'm going to drop this here because I think your fighting a losing battle, I don't want us to end up not liking the other guy because of actions you or I say we would take. Your a good man Charlie Brown but our opinions happen to be different on this issue. I for sure will be alive tomorrow (given this situation) you maybe not. Stay safe!

It would be good for our discussion for a LEO or other carrying type to offer up their opinion.

Maybe I'm wrong on the side of caution about shooting. If trained pros would shoot at a silouette in the dark and rationalize it by saying that the person was inside their home...and therefore justifiably a target, then I'll learn something.

I won't shoot somebody once, so I'll make darned sure that the person I'm shooting at is a clear threat.

ANYBODY think that a clear threat to personal bodily harm to homeowners can be proven by the DA against the girl? That's my question.

Does trespass (NOT criminal trespass) convey upon the homeowner the right to shoot? That's question number 2.

This isn't personal, anybody, but rather the essence of THT where we can sort things out with civil discourse.

When we hunt, we are taught from the get-go to make sure of our target before pulling the trigger. Did the homeowners actually make sure that they were under seige, or that the girl was a threat?

LOTs of times, people have wandered into the wrong house, car, dorm room, apartment while they were hammered.

damdest thing I ever heard, Charle's Mansion would have liked your address.

damdest thing I ever heard, Charle's Mansion would have liked your address.


:rofl::rofl: your post kinda reads like you are sharing whatever the girl was having :rofl::jk:

...does that mean that we get to shoot you? :o:o:o:rofl:

damdest thing I ever heard, Charle's Mansion would have liked your address.


on a more serious note, are you suggesting that anybody that gets into a house that isn't theirs deserves to be shot?

Clear question. What's the answer you give to that? ;?

Same thing happened to my sister a few months back. She was at home in the her bedroom when the dog started going nuts. next thing she knows there is this girl standing in the house just looking at her. My sister boyfirend jumps up and the girls runs for the door but was to drunk to even get out of the house. Come to find out she was hammered at a party got mad and left and when she thought she came back eneded up at the wrong house which was my sisters. the drunk girl is lucky that my dad was not home becuase she would atleast had a gun in her face if not worse. my sister being nice just told her she could go sit outside. i was mad at her for not calling the cops because that girl could of ended getting hurt or worse which i think the cops eneded being called from a neigbor

It would be good for our discussion for a LEO or other carrying type to offer up their opinion.

Maybe I'm wrong on the side of caution about shooting. If trained pros would shoot at a silouette in the dark and rationalize it by saying that the person was inside their home...and therefore justifiably a target, then I'll learn something.

I won't shoot somebody once, so I'll make darned sure that the person I'm shooting at is a clear threat.

ANYBODY think that a clear threat to personal bodily harm to homeowners can be proven by the DA against the girl? That's my question.

Does trespass (NOT criminal trespass) convey upon the homeowner the right to shoot? That's question number 2.

This isn't personal, anybody, but rather the essence of THT where we can sort things out with civil discourse.

A LEO is going to try to make it home at the end of the day with the least amount of paper work possible. Sometimes that involves shooting someone.

If this had been my home I'd leave a gun with my wife, if I had the time load my own if not, haul ass to my son remove the consciousness possibly life of anything in my way. That's if whomever gets past the locks, alarm, and the wolf looking dog.

Waking up to some stranger in your bedroom at 2am or 3am that is not listening to commands to get out is a threat, pure and simple. The sleeping quarters of my home at night are the cut off for dealing with an intruder. The homeowner did not go looking for a fight and instead was sleeping in his own bed. He had no way of knowing her intentions and in that situation, I would rather have the perp hurt instead of family member because he failed to act.

The bedroom/sleep quarters at night to me is the cut off and your mere presences there equals a threat to me and my family.

She is not the victim and is the criminal. I feel the homeowners response to the situation (from the information I read) is completely justified.

If you play stupid games, you win stupid prizes.

It would be good for our discussion for a LEO or other carrying type to offer up their opinion.




Paging Officer Cracker.
:thumbsup:

:rofl::rofl: your post kinda reads like you are sharing whatever the girl was having :rofl::jk:

...does that mean that we get to shoot you? :o:o:o:rofl:

You are more than welcome to enter my house uninvited and shoot away, tell you what, I'll just take a nap and make it easier for you, however, could turn out to be a short career you have chosen, and by the way, you mention "we", heck yeah, I like a party.

on a more serious note, are you suggesting that anybody that gets into a house that isn't theirs deserves to be shot?

Clear question. What's the answer you give to that? ;?

Easy answer, there is a lot of difference accidently walking into the next door neighbors house at 11:00 in the day or walking into a perfect strangers house in the middle of the night while they are asleep, in the latter, you have crossed the threshhold, watch out for the flash.

P.S. I seriously doubt you have made a habit walking into other people's house in the middle of the night or we wouldn't be having this discussion.

on a more serious note, are you suggesting that anybody that gets into a house that isn't theirs deserves to be shot?

Clear question. What's the answer you give to that? ;?

Your question isn't that clear, so let me clarify it for you.

"Are you suggesting that anyone who enters another person's house illegally deserves to be shot?"

Clear answer. Yes.

And again.

Dundalk Couple Recovering After 2 Armed Men Invaded Their Home

Only this time:

"......Sunday was a traumatic day for Sharon. She was visiting her daughter’s house at 705 Aldworth Road, in the Berkshire neighborhood of Dundalk, when two men burst through the back door shouting: “Baltimore City Police! Baltimore City Police!” she said.
“[They identified themselves as] Baltimore City police and came running up the steps with a gun and had it on me and her and the one behind him had a knife,” Sharon said......."


http://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2012/05/28/dundalk-couple-recovering-after-2-armed-men-invaded-their-home/






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In the peoples republik of MD if they had shot and killed the thugs they would be going to jail.

This is now a case for the judicial system

LEO's opinions don't seem relevant - they weren't really involved and it doesnt matter what they think they did their job - they just enforce the law - now its up to the court system

I basically trust in the system - personally i suppose i would give her fines and community service as she did not hurt anyone and isn't all that ba dlooking - we all make mistakes and if no one is harmed well, then we can be compassionate

There are three entrances into my house, all have two doors which are locked, so you cannot just "walk in" you must "break in". By the time you are in my house we will know you are in my home and you will go out feet first, no exceptions.

I have warned all my relatives, neighbors and friends not to enter my home without phoning first. If you break in for any reason you will die. We will not shoot to wound, we will shoot to kill.

Too tough a stand? Ok, we plead guilty.

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h211/rayteagarden/RayCharicture.jpg

There are three entrances into my house, all have two doors which are locked, so you cannot just "walk in" you must "break in". By the time you are in my house we will know you are in my home and you will go out feet first, no exceptions.

I have warned all my relatives, neighbors and friends not to enter my home without phoning first. If you break in for any reason you will die. We will not shoot to wound, we will shoot to kill.

Too tough a stand? Ok, we plead guilty.

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h211/rayteagarden/RayCharicture.jpg

This point you made is going to have a heavy value on the trial, IMO. If somebody is drunk and opens a door (that is unlocked and free to walk into), then they can be in the wrong place out of ignorance, stupor, lost, etc. A LOT of apartments, motel rooms and houses look the same to people not used to being in them.......

In the case we're discussing, the door was UNLOCKED. A Defense attorney could make a case that they kinds "invited" trouble into their home.

NO?? How about when that attorney identifies the Wife as a person that's been stalked for many years and fears a female that's stalking her? Who actually fired the shot?

Was it the wife because she wanted closure to her stalking nightmare? Does that justify shooting a girl that represented no threat to them?

You guys that state clearly that you would shoot to kill anybody that ever was in your house without your knowledge and consent trouble my senses. There are too many cases where people have killed their spouses, kids, neighbors, etc. for just such simplistic logic.

Please guys, THINK like if you were hunting. Make sure of your target.

After all, it is YOU that has a loaded gun. If you shoot to kill and that person doesn't carry a gun (or the family silver in a pillowcase), then you have snuffed a life. Can your family live with your azz being a killer while you pay the price of internet bravery?

This is my last post on this tread, but thanks for causing me to think about how and when I'd shoot somebody. That's an important lesson and wake-up call to use as much restraint as possible, because a bullet doesn't have a back-space on it...

You guys that state clearly that you would shoot to kill anybody that ever was in your house without your knowledge and consent trouble my senses. There are too many cases where people have killed their spouses, kids, neighbors, etc. for just such simplistic logic.

Please guys, THINK like if you were hunting. Make sure of your target.

After all, it is YOU that has a loaded gun. If you shoot to kill and that person doesn't carry a gun (or the family silver in a pillowcase), then you have snuffed a life. Can your family live with your azz being a killer while you pay the price of internet bravery?

This is my last post on this tread, but thanks for causing me to think about how and when I'd shoot somebody. That's an important lesson and wake-up call to use as much restraint as possible, because a bullet doesn't have a back-space on it...
You keep equating hunting with personal defense......two entirely different activities. You control all the variables while hunting........you don't control many of the variables when you are potentially fighting for your life. My bedroom isn't a deer stand.

There seem to be a lot of folks here eager to kill someone else.

I'm just ..not.

There seem to be a lot of folks here eager to kill someone else.

I'm just ..not.

Actually that is furtherest from our intent, we aim to protect ourselves and our love ones, unfortunately in doing so, we may stop a thug from harming someone that you care about too. If that happens, you're welcome.

Actually that is furtherest from our intent, we aim to protect ourselves and our love ones, unfortunately in doing so, we may stop a thug from harming someone that you care about too. If that happens, you're welcome.

Unless you are in my house shooting people, I doubt that will happen.

.... unfortunately in doing so, we may stop a thug from harming someone that you care about too.


In this instance, "you" didn't "stop" a "thug" from "harming" anybody.

All those danged quotation marks hurt the eyes, and they also underscore that the use of your words to make a point was completely slanted in order to rationalize your objective.

The HOs didn't Stop anybody, because she wasn't after them.....

She wasn't a Thug. She was a young WASP

Harming? You have no rational explanation for that verb, do you?

Bama

I completely agree with what you are saying (to a point). The window to identify friend or foe is so small especially if you just woke up. I know that I could not pull the trigger because I would wonder is that my brother, neighbor, kid next door, am I dreaming?????

All of my firearms are in the safe and locked up. Having said that, I have a baseball bat under the bed, and it is still game on with any intruder. The sleeping area of a home is where the line is drawn for me and the consequence can be as severe as death. That is the only area that I feel that way and the trespasser is responsible for their actions. The same way that you cant hope the fence at the white house, these are the few things that could get you killed.

I would never recommend any charge against someone that was sleeping in their own bed when trouble found them. I

In this instance, "you" didn't "stop" a "thug" from "harming" anybody.

All those danged quotation marks hurt the eyes, and they also underscore that the use of your words to make a point was completely slanted in order to rationalize your objective.

The HOs didn't Stop anybody, because she wasn't after them.....

She wasn't a Thug. She was a young WASP

Harming? You have no rational explanation for that verb, do you?

In my post I said 'if given the time' I would have a second weapon leaving the first with my wife. If someone is fiddling with my bedroom door and my dog elsewhere said person would be wearing the door me on top asking questions looking for other intruders on the way to my son. Would I feel a bad about running over broad drunk in my house no, shooting her maybe I hope I never find out.

If anyone enters my home their right to be unharmed is null in void unless my only avenue of harm is their backside on rapid exit.

Unless you are in my house shooting people, I doubt that will happen.

Well Joe, hoorah for you, but most people that break and enter and rape and rob make a habit of it, so if my neighbor down the street puts an end to their habits, then I don't have to deal with it, get the hint. Most people entering your house in the middle of the night ain't there on a "social" visit.:)

When we hunt, we are taught from the get-go to make sure of our target before pulling the trigger. Did the homeowners actually make sure that they were under seige, or that the girl was a threat?

LOTs of times, people have wandered into the wrong house, car, dorm room, apartment while they were hammered.

I agree here. My cousin used to live across a side street from the DE hospital for insane people. Like 175 patients...

My cousin is a Lifetime NRA member, gun collector, hunter, Vietnam Vet and welder by profession. Not a liberal type. He also had 4 sons at home all welders and hunters too.

Insane people used to break out of the hospital thru a chain link razor wired fence at least once a year and walk right into his house or hide in his garage or workshop. Once a guy busted thru the screen door while they were at the dinner table and walked right up to their phone on the wall and picked it up and started dialing like noone was there. Women would walk in and beg for them to hide them and not call the cops.

They never had to shoot anyone.

I agree here. My cousin used to live across a side street from the DE hospital for insane people. Like 175 patients...

My cousin is a Lifetime NRA member, gun collector, hunter, Vietnam Vet and welder by profession. Not a liberal type. He also had 4 sons at home all welders and hunters too.

Insane people used to break out of the hospital thru a chain link razor wired fence at least once a year and walk right into his house or hide in his garage or workshop. Once a guy busted thru the screen door while they were at the dinner table and walked right up to their phone on the wall and picked it up and started dialing like noone was there. Women would walk in and beg for them to hide them and not call the cops.

They never had to shoot anyone.


They never HAD to shoot anyone....they were well within their legal rights to, a number of times, according to your story. Coming into the house in the middle of dinner is one thing. Waking me out of a sleep while my 100# weimer is barking and growling is another story. There's a .45 in the night stand with your name on it. I don't WANT to shoot anyone. I don't WANT to deal with the legal bullshit associated with it (statements to the cops, article in the paper, etc etc) leave me no choice and I will put a hole in you. And I won't lose any sleep over it either. I work hard for the things I have and I'm damn sure gonna protect them and my family.

What if this girl was wondering around a busy intersection hammered, stepped into traffic and got killed? People would say things like Darwin Award and how horible for the driver that killed her. When a gun is involved people change their opinion. Why?

Crack heads break into houses, usually high, and looking for a way to support their habit. Why doesn't anyone feel sorry for them if they get shot? A young, educated woman and a crack head probably look identical in the dark when they are forcing their way into your bedroom and you were asleep and now terrified yelling for them to leave your home.

This girl is damn lucky to be alive. Hopefully she learned a leason about drinking to that excess. 3 times the leagal limit and she is still walking around leads me to believe she is no weekend warior when it comes to drinking. Maybe she has a drinking problem and this will be her come to Jesus moment. I'm sure the couple that owns the home feels bad about the situation now. At the time of the shooting they were protecting their lives.

I'm glad nobody got killed. I don't want to see the girl go to jail. I hope this situation serves as a leason that whether you are drunk, high, coming from helping out at the childrens hospital or coming from church, you are responsible for your actions. Your actions all have reactions and consequences. Some are more severe than others.