Dockside Chat - A/C guru's a few ???? Central Air

I got a few quotes on putting in new central air, All of them are within 1000 of each other. Being in electronics for years I do understand most use the same components some might be built in house like coil's etc. MY choices go as , Frigidaire, Rheem or Coleman. Which one would you go with and why ? Don't let Dealer network be a consideration, i live in NJ and we have a Buzillion of AC techs and distributors.

Consider a Trane. Great units and can probably get one at Rheem pricing.

Consider a Trane. Great units and can probably get one at Rheem pricing.

I did the problem with the trane guy in my neck of the woods wants 10K over the rest

Just curious, how come "Frigidaire, Rheem or Coleman"? None would be on my list of what I'd put in my house.

I didn't even know Frigidaire made central AC.

Rheem is just that (what a terrible name), and it's a "builder's brand". Having said that, it's AC, not rocket science and it should be OK. If I was going to use a "budget" brand, I'd go with Goodman. I've always been very happy with Goodman customer service and they make an excellent product. They also own Amana.

I thought Coleman made trailer AC and furnaces, so they wouldn't have been on my list either.

My standard answer is, go with what your trusted service mechanic suggest.

Trane may be the best and I installed a lot of them, although I feel they are over priced and too complicated for what they do (cool the house). I put Goodman in my own houses and in 100's more without one failure. They did have a run of bad fan motors made by (GE)?.

Get a Trane quote from one of the other buzillion reps in NJ. I recently had a new Carrier oil fired furnace installed, AC remained the same, just the furnace and the quotes from 4 different Carrier reps were all over the map.

I 2nd the Trane suggestion, very good AC unit, mine has been problem free.

I did the problem with the trane guy in my neck of the woods wants 10K over the rest

10K? :o What the heck are you having done? Is this a complete new system(s), including ductwork? Did you not have AC prior to this?

Although Trane is higher priced, it's only (20%)? to comparable units. You might need to back up and tell us a little more about what you're doing to get informed comments.

Are you comparing apples to apples? Some contractors save a lot of money by doing crap ductwork (the duct design is more important than the equipment). There really isn't a lot of difference in the wholesale price of (for example) a 3 ton 14 SEER Trane and the same 14 SEER Rheem. I don't know the numbers, but I'd be surprised if it was a $1000 difference for the condenser, air handler, etc.

I wouldn't put any of the ones you listed in my house . You get what you pay for with not only quality but also the noise it transmits into your house.

Tell me what the guys are quoting you one
Ton
Seer
brand
New Cooper
replace top of stand
T-stat

Installing a A/C unit these days is not something you want to cheap out on , A Bad install leads to problems and generates cost, A good install your happy , A great Install and it pays for itself .
Don't always go with the Low man , go with the quality .
Trane also sells a brand to compete with the other low cost brands.

I wouldn't put any of the ones you listed in my house . You get what you pay for with not only quality but also the noise it transmits into your house.

Tell me what the guys are quoting you one
Ton
Seer
brand
New Cooper
replace top of stand
T-stat

Installing a A/C unit these days is not something you want to cheap out on , A Bad install leads to problems and generates cost, A good install your happy , A great Install and it pays for itself .
Don't always go with the Low man , go with the quality .
Trane also sells a brand to compete with the other low cost brands.

I wasn't basing my reasoning on price, i understand a properly speced and installed AC unit will last decades. Under sized duct and or bad install techniques like not vaccing lines will lead to problems


3 ton
16 seer
all new line sets and ducting

All three brands i listed were right around 8K for install

Trane, then Carrier and York, in my current house when I moved in in 1998, I had the 6 year old rheem unit pulled out and went with a Trane Multi speed. Have not had one problem with it and keeps my house cool and dry in the south florida weather. BTW I used to work for York as a design engineer in my youth.....and my wifes uncle retired as a vice president for industrial refirgeration for Carrier/United Technologies and he put a Trane in his house also when he remodeled last year....

I wasn't basing my reasoning on price, i understand a properly speced and installed AC unit will last decades. Under sized duct and or bad install techniques like not vaccing lines will lead to problems


3 ton
16 seer
all new line sets and ducting

All three brands i listed were right around 8K for install

All new at 8 k isn't bad depending on house layout of course on the units you have listed .

What model trane did they price you one ? Sounds like a XEI 20

I got a few quotes on putting in new central air, All of them are within 1000 of each other. Being in electronics for years I do understand most use the same components some might be built in house like coil's etc. MY choices go as , Frigidaire, Rheem or Coleman. Which one would you go with and why ? Don't let Dealer network be a consideration, i live in NJ and we have a Buzillion of AC techs and distributors.

I wasn't basing my reasoning on price, i understand a properly speced and installed AC unit will last decades. Under sized duct and or bad install techniques like not vaccing lines will lead to problems


3 ton
16 seer
all new line sets and ducting

All three brands i listed were right around 8K for install

Apparently you don't want any professional opinions. So, with 30 years of experience in residential HVAC design, installation and service, I'd say Rheem. Why? Because I've never seen the other 2 installed in a real house. I doubt there's much difference between the 3 manufacturers.

It does however sound very suspicious that the Trane is more than 100% higher than the 3 quotes that are using the cheapest equipment. My guess is that the Trane dealer is overprice and is installing a far superior system (duct design). If the ductwork is designed the same and using the same materials, the Trane should have been about 20% more. Trane requires it's dealers to be factory certified and if the ductwork is improper, Trane won't warranty their equipment. OK, I'm giving an opinion, I'll shut up.

I know the installs are different up north from Florida, because every time we hire a guy from new York or new jersey they tells us "that not how we do it in ". We always politely tell them a few words to go by

I'm replacing a 5 ton heat pump w Trane. Install is Monday. 18 SEER @ 6628, complete.

Apparently you don't want any professional opinions.

Why do you say that ?

I'll give you more info, the house is 1100 sqft. The design is split ranch. They main problem the trane guy couldn't wrap his head around was the bulkhead that separates the 2 story to the ranch. I think he high balled me because he didn't want the job. There is no easy way up into the second attic with ducting ? the other guys where going to use a rigid s duct to get up there. Bothing dwelling have an above actic with atleast 4ft overhead high. Prices were qouted with + and - in each bedroom (3 all together) + in all ranch living space with a - in the up stairway. R8 insulation on ducting

I've been building houses for over 25 yrs and I have never seen a Frigidaire or Coleman central air system much less installed one. Didn't know they existed. We put Carrier in most all of the homes, mainly because that is what my sub deals with and has for over 40 yrs. From time to time on a smaller home we have used Goodman. They do seem to hold up well with very few problems. I would not hesitate to put one in my own home. I think if I was in your shoes, I'd be looking at some different options then Coleman and Firgidaire.

Why do you say that ?

Because your original post and responces to other posts seem to be saying that all you want is an answer to the question "MY choices go as , Frigidaire, Rheem or Coleman. Which one would you go with and why ?"

I wouldn't install any of them and you seem unreceptive to any discussion or suggestions. Per your own words "i live in NJ and we have a Buzillion of AC techs and distributors", there should be plenty of options and for some reason you've narrowed it down to either junk or one high priced Trane dealer.

When I was in business (in CT), my cutomers didn't need to shop a bunch of contractors. My customers knew I was the guy that would be there day or night and they could trust me with the keys to their house and car. By the time I fully explained what and how I was going to do a job and the options for equipment, I seldom had to compete for a job. My customers knew I was going to do it "right" and for a fair price. Typically, my customers had been with me for more than 10 years or they had bought a house that I had been sevicing for years.

So, when you say pick from these 3 and you don't want to hear about other considerations, I'll pick Rheem. It's not like I'm going to be servicing it or be the one that has to live with it. I think the actual equipment brand is only a small part of the equation.

I also wouldn't think 3 tons is sized correctly for 1100 sq ft in NJ or that a 16 SEER system will pay for itself in a reasonable amount of time. If I was still in the business and you were my customer, I would have shown you a heat gain calculation and a cost analysist for the operating cost for different SEER's units as well as the different installed prices.

So, with all that, I'm not the guy to ask. I'll let y'all carry on.

Coleman units are mostly sold at mobile home parts places. I have seen them in a package unit but never a split system. Figidare makes refrigerators and washing machines that suck ,have no clue what the AC section has.
Coleman package units are priced 50% less then a quality unit.
Look at the cases they set in flimsy isn't the word for it
Look at the insulation
Look at the noise level it produces compared to any other brand.

Because your original post and responces to other posts seem to be saying that all you want is an answer to the question "MY choices go as , Frigidaire, Rheem or Coleman. Which one would you go with and why ?"

I wouldn't install any of them and you seem unreceptive to any discussion or suggestions. Per your own words "i live in NJ and we have a Buzillion of AC techs and distributors", there should be plenty of options and for some reason you've narrowed it down to either junk or one high priced Trane dealer.

When I was in business (in CT), my cutomers didn't need to shop a bunch of contractors. My customers knew I was the guy that would be there day or night and they could trust me with the keys to their house and car. By the time I fully explained what and how I was going to do a job and the options for equipment, I seldom had to compete for a job. My customers knew I was going to do it "right" and for a fair price. Typically, my customers had been with me for more than 10 years or they had bought a house that I had been sevicing for years.

So, when you say pick from these 3 and you don't want to hear about other considerations, I'll pick Rheem. It's not like I'm going to be servicing it or be the one that has to live with it. I think the actual equipment brand is only a small part of the equation.

I also wouldn't think 3 tons is sized correctly for 1100 sq ft in NJ or that a 16 SEER system will pay for itself in a reasonable amount of time. If I was still in the business and you were my customer, I would have shown you a heat gain calculation and a cost analysist for the operating cost for different SEER's units as well as the different installed prices.

So, with all that, I'm not the guy to ask. I'll let y'all carry on.


Ok, so thoose are junk and you wouldn't go with any of those brands. Who else should i be looking at, there has to be more then just trane. How about lennox, fuji, sanyo ?

Lennox is a sweet unit .
Carrier
York
http://www.frigidaire.com/products/Air-Conditioners-Dehumidifiers/Window-Air-Conditioners/

Lennox is a sweet unit .
Carrier
York
http://www.frigidaire.com/products/Air-Conditioners-Dehumidifiers/Window-Air-Conditioners/

I though York made coleman ?

Coleman units are mostly sold at mobile home parts places. I have seen them in a package unit but never a split system. Figidare makes refrigerators and washing machines that suck ,have no clue what the AC section has.
Coleman package units are priced 50% less then a quality unit.
Look at the cases they set in flimsy isn't the word for it
Look at the insulation
Look at the noise level it produces compared to any other brand.

Kinda backs up one of my earlier posts regarding the choices.

As far as SEER is concerned, here's some examples (this calculator doesn't have 16 SEER but the same principle applies).

A 3 ton unit running 1000 hrs a year with an electric rate of $.10 kwr
13 SEER operating cost is about $280 annual. 15 SEER $240 annual or about 7% annual savings for each SEER that you go up. Then you need to take into consideration the initial cost plus the cost and availability of service. I don't see where a 1100 sq ft house warrants a 16 SEER system.

This assumes you have a reasonably insulated house and normal windows, etc. I would also guess that a 2 or 2 1/2 ton system would do a better job. I know, more opinion than you asked for. Can't help myself.

I though York made coleman ?

lennox makes a shit brand also
Trane makes a ok/junk brand
Carrier also makes a low ball brand

What is the model number of the units you have now .
What size is the duct work coming off of it now
3 ton sounds extremely high for a 1100square foot home
If it were me I would install a 14ACX -024 lennox condenser
and a CBX27uh 024 AHU inside.

If getting to the upstairs is a problem a mini split or cassette registers would be another option

see this page on sizing is just a quick reference not a heat load calc
http://www.acdirect.com/systemsize.php

Putting in a 3 ton unit would drop the home to a temp really quick and never pull the humidity out .

Ok, so thoose are junk and you wouldn't go with any of those brands. Who else should i be looking at, there has to be more then just trane. How about lennox, fuji, sanyo ?

fugi and sanyo make ductless units (to the best of my knowledge). I don't know much about Lennox AC. I know I hated their oil fired furnaces and that many of their parts were proprietary (made service a pain). I was trained and certified at the Carrier school in Syracuse. I was a Carrier dealer for years and did not leave them on good terms. I'm talking about 20 years ago, so it's really not relevant now.

Again, I would use Goodman because I've had nothing but good results. Also, Ferguson Supply (largest distributor of heating, AC and plumbing in the USA) is nearby and they carry Goodman. Here's a link to Goodman http://www.goodmanmfg.com/

What is the model number of the units you have now .
What size is the duct work coming off of it now
3 ton sounds extremely high for a 1100square foot home
If it were me I would install a 14ACX -024 lennox condenser
and a CBX27uh 024 AHU inside.

If getting to the upstairs is a problem a mini split or cassette registers would be another option

see this page on sizing is just a quick reference not a heat load calc
http://www.acdirect.com/systemsize.php

Putting in a 3 ton unit would drop the home to a temp really quick and never pull the humidity out .

I have nothing now, just 2 window units

I have nothing now, just 2 window units

Look at Mitsubishi mini splits

Sounds like you need to get a guy to do a heat load calc . Who told you you needed 3 tons ?
I would see a 3 ton in that size unless you have plexi glass windows and no insulation

seer calculator
http://www.lennox.com/resources/energycalculator.asp

Yes I am a lennox and Trane dealer so my opinion will be biased

Look at Mitsubishi mini splits

Sounds like you need to get a guy to do a heat load calc . Who told you you needed 3 tons ?
I would see a 3 ton in that size unless you have plexi glass windows and no insulation

seer calculator
http://www.lennox.com/resources/energycalculator.asp

Yes I am a lennox and Trane dealer so my opinion will be biased

I would love to do a minisplit system with 2 concealed duct handlers. I have looked at fuji and mitsu, as soon as I get an AC guy on site they always tell me, i dont have to go that way and its better to go conventional. All 3 of this years estimates all said 3 ton, not sure why. I have seen mitsu's and fuji's hold up quite well in server rooms over the years. If you know a guy thats reasonable that will service monmouth county NJ, shoot me a PM. I'll entertain any logical solution. Even had AJ Perri come out, they wanted 24K last year :o

Coleman units are mostly sold at mobile home parts places. I have seen them in a package unit but never a split system. Figidare makes refrigerators and washing machines that suck ,have no clue what the AC section has.


Totally agree about the Frigidare Appliances, they are terrible.

The reason they say go conventional is the are out of touch with technology of today.
Technology scares older AC techs.
You can also do ptac unit and anyone that can install a window unit can install one of them.
What is your zip code?

Somerset office
1-732-560-4500 give them a call.
Check out the installation online it is the new wave and is great for a house with out ducts

Is Rudd any good? T hat's what my install quote calls for.

For 8 tons of cooling and 3 separate condensers/units, all brand new ducting with insulation, two air handlers in the attic (conditioned space) and an a hydro unit for a large attached great room I will be into it for 17,300 plus electric work. All electric is easy access so I would guess it would cost another couple k for that. Your price see,s somewhat reasonable as ri prices are a bit more competitive.

What is the rule of thumb for tons cooling? Well insulated room with above avg Amy of glass?

"What is the rule of thumb for tons cooling" in RI

800 to 1200 sq ft per ton of cooling. Closer to the water with lower temps and higher humidity, less tonnage. If you're on the water, probably 1000 sq ft per ton. You would need to be properly educated on what to do and not do with your thermostat.

On your hottest day, a properly sized system runs non stop and you'll get 20 degrees (maybe a little more) of cooling.

2 ton per 1000 sf
http://www.acdirect.com/systemsize.php

why 3 separate units ?

[ All 3 of this years estimates all said 3 ton, not sure why.


Their always going to oversize so they never have a call back complaint that the A/C isn't cold enough on the hottest days of the year.

[ All 3 of this years estimates all said 3 ton, not sure why.


Their always going to oversize so they never have a call back complaint that the A/C isn't cold enough on the hottest days of the year.

Over sizing is going to cause problems. You'll have short cycling and it'll result in shorter lifespan of the equipment. Optimum efficiency is achieved with continuous or long cycles.

I'm replacing a 5 ton heat pump w Trane. Install is Monday. 18 SEER @ 6628, complete.

Good luck ! Your contractor will not be around much longer at those prices. He is losing money before he picks up the equipment.LOL

Coleman is made by Johnson Controls. So is York and Luxaire. More than likely the coleman is made with microchannel instead of fin tube. All aluminum, dissapates heat better. Trane actually came out with it first, but Johnson controls ran with it. It's the same material as your car radiator. SO, in the event you have a male dog that like to piss all over it, it won't deteriorate like a fin tube condensor due to lack of dissimilar metals. They are good units. I've never been a big fan of Goodman, but that's just me. Coleman also has a moduating furnace identical to the York and Luxaire units.
I'm a bit biased because I am a Luxaire dealer.
Bottom line is, you're buying a contractor and his abilities, knowledge, and customer service. Period. If it's installed properly, it will last a long time. Ask all their procedures on install. Does he run a nitrogen purge while brazing, does he protect the valves during brazing, ask what they do and why and you'll get a better feeling on the people installing it.

Coleman is made by Johnson Controls. So is York and Luxaire. More than likely the coleman is made with microchannel instead of fin tube. All aluminum, dissapates heat better. Trane actually came out with it first, but Johnson controls ran with it. It's the same material as your car radiator. SO, in the event you have a male dog that like to piss all over it, it won't deteriorate like a fin tube condensor due to lack of dissimilar metals. They are good units. I've never been a big fan of Goodman, but that's just me. Coleman also has a moduating furnace identical to the York and Luxaire units.
I'm a bit biased because I am a Luxaire dealer.
Bottom line is, you're buying a contractor and his abilities, knowledge, and customer service. Period. If it's installed properly, it will last a long time. Ask all their procedures on install. Does he run a nitrogen purge while brazing, does he protect the valves during brazing, ask what they do and why and you'll get a better feeling on the people installing it.

Interesting info on the Coleman, I had no idea. None of those brands were big sellers in my area of CT. As you know, brands tend to be regional.

The second part of your post is right on. Finding a good contractor/installer/service company means much more than a brand. If I had worked on Rheem/RUUD everyday, that would have been a good brand because I would know the equipment inside and out. I had a lot of problems with the Carrier compressor warranty, so I changed companies. I installed the one I changed to in my own house first to see if I liked it.

It really didn't matter to the customer what brand I installed, as long as I was going to service and maintain it. This of course leads back to the most important part of the system, the ductwork. You can change a bad compressor in a couple of hours at no cost to the homeowner. A bad duct design/install could cost thousands to resolve.

There's really no way to advise the OP on what contractor to hire, he needs to do his homework.

A very rough idea is:
- For and older drafty, inefficient house 400SF per ton. Any sizing larger than this should be explained by the contractor.
- For a newer reasonably built house 600SF per ton.
- For an Energy Star Qualified house 600-800SF per ton.
- Well designed, thoughtfully crafted houses can achieve 800-1000 SF per ton.


Bigger is not better - getting the right size is important. About 70% of the work of the air conditioner is to remove the humidity from the air - this is called the latent load. An oversized unit will bring the temperature down quickly but not remove the humidity. A right-sized unit will run longer and do a better job with dehumidification allowing you to keep the set-point several degrees warmer and still achieve the comfort level expected.


3 tons sounds like way too much capacity. Is this house located in the Sahara or the Gobi?

If you get the 3 ton keep the lightweight kids and pets away from the supply vents. The air velocity is going to be extreme. Which brings me to another point, get some earplugs for the wind noise.

Carrier or York.
Wouldn't touch a frigidair anything.

2 ton per 1000 sf
http://www.acdirect.com/systemsize.php

why 3 separate units ?

My great room that is attached has no attic or basement access, so only option was to use an a handler on the existing ductwork which will still supply the heat as well through the hydronic.

Balance of the house was too large to cool with a single condenser.

Good luck ! Your contractor will not be around much longer at those prices. He is losing money before he picks up the equipment.LOL

They're a big company and I forgot to mention Trane has 1000 spring incentive going on here and FP&L (power co) is anteing up 1145. W/o discounts would have been 8773. Sorry for the confusion.

Ok, I have over 25 yrs in Fl. HVAC and still in the field doing service work and sales.

#1 have a manual J, heat load calculation done. NOT by some BS program like RHEUM DESIGN STAR. Find a contractor who spent the money for a real load calculator. We use Wrightsoft. Yes, there are other good ones.

#2 have a manual D, duct design done. Again this needs to be done with a good design program and an on site evaluation.

#3 Choose any brand. Just remember the the salesman is on commission and his is THE BEST!!!!

Here is my view of products in this area in the past 2 years:

Goodman/Amana. Goodman bought Amana. High evap coil leak failure.

Rheem. Vertical drain pan cracks at drain connection. Some evap coil failures.

Frigidaire. Nordyne product. No real world input.

Colman. No real world input.

Trane. Good product. Some problems with back order repair parts. Out of warranty brand specific parts are expensive.

Lennox. Good product with past years of high evap and condenser coil failure. We dropped them from our product line except for specific applications. Out of warranty brand specific parts are expensive.

Carrier/Bryant/Payne. Good product. A few evap, condenser coil failures.

Stay away from any brand with a GE X13 blower motor. Extreme high failure rate. Go with a ECM blower motor.

Remember: manufactures warranty does NOT cover labor, service calls, shipping or core charges. Any contractor that does warrant work for FREE is taking on the chin and must make up for it some where else.

Look into an extended warranty that covers parts and labor for 10 years if you are going to keep the home. I personally DO NOT believe in extended warranties BUT some parts are VERY expensive.

As far as price its going to be all over the board. Some contractors do not pull need permits, use true certified service mechanics or have a large enough staff to respond to service calls quickly. Also theres the contractor that is on COD with suppliers because he is on the way out of business.

I hope this helps. Most of the responses to the OP were pure BS.

Certifications:
NATE: Service technician AC
Installation AC
Service technician Air distribution
Installation technician Air distribition
Service technician Air to air heat pump
Installation technician Air to air heat pump
Florida home inspector. ASHI member
Florida Radon testing
Extensive training in mold and IAQC

"I hope this helps. Most of the responses to the OP were pure BS."

Well, FU too. Seeing how I had more responses than most. You are quite full of yourself, aren't you. When someone knowledgeable reads your credentials, they're not all that impressive. I'm glad that you adhere to the industry standards, too many skirt around doing it the right way. Before you started the name calling, I thought you made some good points.

BTW, I helped with the early stages of Wrightsoft before it was available to purchase. I actually did many load calculations by the book to show how wrong the program could be. I did the same for Carrier residential programs.

I also taught ACCA classes when you were just getting started. Being from the NE, I didn't have a lot of experience with heat pumps, with the exception of Geothermal. I also held a license for solar technologies, as well as being part of the RPA. Are we done with the pissing contest yet?

I did say that a lot of my product info/experience was outdated as I've been retired.

I also said that picking the right contractor/installer/service company was more important than the product itself. I'll repeat, "You can change a bad compressor in a couple of hours at no cost to the homeowner. A bad duct design/install could cost thousands to resolve."

I've always embraced "new and improved" with a sense of practicality. So, let's keep the comments to helping answer the OP's questions.

To the OP , you need to find a qualified installer. Personally, I never did well with professional salesman. I prefer to talk to people that actually know what they're talking about. Get a price and only sign a contact contingent on them meeting ACCA criteria. inspections, etc.

Also, ductless is a bit of a pain in the butt to service, but there's nothing new about them. I have no numbers to back up this thought, but I'd guess that worldwide, there more ductless units than split system (whole house).

"I hope this helps. Most of the responses to the OP were pure BS."

Well, FU too. Seeing how I had more responses than most. You are quite full of yourself, aren't you. When someone knowledgeable reads your credentials, they're not all that impressive. I'm glad that you adhere to the industry standards, too many skirt around doing it the right way. Before you started the name calling, I thought you made some good points.

BTW, I helped with the early stages of Wrightsoft before it was available to purchase. I actually did many load calculations by the book to show how wrong the program could be. I did the same for Carrier residential programs.

I also taught ACCA classes when you were just getting started. Being from the NE, I didn't have a lot of experience with heat pumps, with the exception of Geothermal. I also held a license for solar technologies, as well as being part of the RPA. Are we done with the pissing contest yet?

I did say that a lot of my product info/experience was outdated as I've been retired.

I also said that picking the right contractor/installer/service company was more important than the product itself. I'll repeat, "You can change a bad compressor in a couple of hours at no cost to the homeowner. A bad duct design/install could cost thousands to resolve."

I've always embraced "new and improved" with a sense of practicality. So, let's keep the comments to helping answer the OP's questions.

To the OP , you need to find a qualified installer. Personally, I never did well with professional salesman. I prefer to talk to people that actually know what they're talking about. Get a price and only sign a contact contingent on them meeting ACCA criteria. inspections, etc.

Also, ductless is a bit of a pain in the butt to service, but there's nothing new about them. I have no numbers to back up this thought, but I'd guess that worldwide, there more ductless units than split system (whole house).

I was Not calling YOU out. Some posts were BS and you know it. You have brought out valid points to consider in the purchase of an HVAC system. It is clear from your posts that you have field and real wourld experience.
Regarding manual J, bad input = bad result. I do not care if its me or any one doing the calc. Also you know you need customer in put. Big difference between a 72* home and a 78* in cooling.
You may be retired but the basics have not changed and there are plenty of contractors and so called service people that give the industry a black eye.
My HVAC certs. are not BS and am proud to have been NATE certified for over 12 years back then it was rare to find people that could correctly charge a system. Let alone understand why a compressor had failed. At least in SWFL.
You are correct about compressor change VS bad duct design and poor install practices. In many cases its start over time and the price tag is big.
Ductless systems have their place and work well in their niche.

Bottom line to the OP. Be comfortable with the contractor, the system should last 15 years or more. Its not like going to Wallmart to do an exchange.

They're a big company and I forgot to mention Trane has 1000 spring incentive going on here and FP&L (power co) is anteing up 1145. W/o discounts would have been 8773. Sorry for the confusion.

Fpl - Florida power and light not in jersey for that rebate. He needs to check with local contractors for rebates from manufacturer and power company.

I can say some things on this site about what would be good and what wouldn't, but I have no clue what the the installed location looks like

I was Not calling YOU out. Some posts were BS and you know it. You have brought out valid points to consider in the purchase of an HVAC system. It is clear from your posts that you have field and real wourld experience.
Regarding manual J, bad input = bad result. I do not care if its me or any one doing the calc. Also you know you need customer in put. Big difference between a 72* home and a 78* in cooling.
You may be retired but the basics have not changed and there are plenty of contractors and so called service people that give the industry a black eye.
My HVAC certs. are not BS and am proud to have been NATE certified for over 12 years back then it was rare to find people that could correctly charge a system. Let alone understand why a compressor had failed. At least in SWFL.
You are correct about compressor change VS bad duct design and poor install practices. In many cases its start over time and the price tag is big.
Ductless systems have their place and work well in their niche.

Bottom line to the OP. Be comfortable with the contractor, the system should last 15 years or more. Its not like going to Wallmart to do an exchange.

;cool;

Ya, the basics haven't changed, but the equipment sure has. I have to wonder how efficient an AC system needs to be on a 1100 sq ft house. There's a point of diminishing return on investment. How much can one save between a 14 SEER and a 18 SEER system? Plus, factor in the initial cost and the upkeep of the highly efficient system.

I did a little work in Coral Gables (whole house AC install) because my step daughter and SIL couldn't get good people. As a manager of a large South Beach restaurant, he knew a lot of people and still couldn't one that knew what they were doing. Plus, the price was right from Dad.;)

We would spend time at their house visiting and I was always amazed at the incompetence of the trades in general. He found out from overseeing the restaurant remodel/build, you need to take a full envelope of cash to Miami to get anything done and approved.

;cool;

Ya, the basics haven't changed, but the equipment sure has. I have to wonder how efficient an AC system needs to be on a 1100 sq ft house. There's a point of diminishing return on investment. How much can one save between a 14 SEER and a 18 SEER system? Plus, factor in the initial cost and the upkeep of the highly efficient system.

I did a little work in Coral Gables (whole house AC install) because my step daughter and SIL couldn't get good people. As a manager of a large South Beach restaurant, he knew a lot of people and still couldn't one that knew what they were doing. Plus, the price was right from Dad.;)

We would spend time at their house visiting and I was always amazed at the incompetence of the trades in general. He found out from overseeing the restaurant remodel/build, you need to take a full envelope of cash to Miami to get anything done and approved.

Dave thanks for no more bashing! You are a stand up guy. And I am wrong about the post I made "MOST ARE BS POSTS". There were a few, not you!!

Spot on. SEER is NOT a buying point for this home. Have the local power Co. do the math on returns or do it yourself. Remember that return is based on average NOT your home.

To the OP.

PM me if I can help. Keep in mind I work in FL. and my experience is based on FL HVAC. I will not get into price, too many ways to price out jobs and Co. overhead. Regarding the 17 and up SEER units your dealing with brand/model specific manuals are mandatory for on site diagnosis and repair. I am fortunate to have both in-house and factory input. The days of easy repair on most units are over.
Yea, I'm service and sales. However I have to sleep at night and I DO NOT HAVE TO REMBER WHAT I SAID BECAUSE I DO NOT LIE!

We're Good, PM sent! :thumbsup:

I live in Florida and my house is 13 years old. I guess it will need a new AC unit in a few years. It seems to be working just fine for now. For sure, if I have any problems. I am looking up Natecret.