SportFishing and Charters Forum - Fishing Trip Costs for Guests?

I know this question has been raised a bunch of times but it seems like each situation is different. So I want to lay out my situation and how I plan to handle it and see what you all think.

My wife and I have a second home on the Gulf for spending winters. We bought a house large enough to be able to have visitors come down and spend time with us, moslty to fish. I am going to take guys out on my boat and let them do most of the fishing (I will get plenty of time in when we don't have company). ln many cases they wont have their own equipment so I will have them use mine.

So what I am planning on doing for expenses is this: I am planning to have them pay for the gas for the boat and my truck (which based upon my recent trip would be about $75/day total) and to chip in for food when they visit. They will have a free place to stay and a boat to go out on and gear to use. This seems to be a reasonable approach (I have talked to a couple of my close fishing buddies about this and they agree).

What do you guys think?

If you invite a guest or friend then they fish for free in my book.

We also have a second home with a boat docked behind it (lagoon). The way we do it is we all chip in (equally) for food, drinks, ice, bait, lost tackle, and gasoline for the boat.

I provide the boat, tackle, rods and reels, house (mortage payments, insirance, utilities, maintenance, etc). Not a great deal for me, but I'm glad to share with others as long as I can afford to do so.

Whatever you decide to do, make sure you tell the people "the deal" before they arrive. Hate to see a friendship runined over $75 or thereabouts in your case. I have heard many stories from others that resulted in shouting matches and even a fistfight. Personally i only got beat one time out of over 100 trips with at least twenty different guys. It was a guy in his late teens that lived nearby, he forgot his wallet and I forgot to ever invite him again.

If you invite a guest or friend then they fish for free in my book.

x2

If they offer to pay expenses then you can say thank you and take it.

I dont think it is unreasonable, or unexpected for guest to share in the expenses of a recreational activity anymore than it is splitting a restaurant tab etc.

If you just invite them down hope they offer gas money. If they are repeat visitors then have them buy the boat food/drink and let them clean the boat and such. If they ask you to take them fishing tell them if you buy the gas

assuming offshore trips--most people that have a clue will be more than willing to split costs, hey they may even be kind enough to buy dinner, if not then probably not good friends--imho---but if you invite someone that has "never" been fishing may want to consider the first a freebee..inshore usually guest brings snacks beverages and ice..not to concerned over 10 gallons of fuel

We also have a second home with a boat docked behind it (lagoon). The way we do it is we all chip in (equally) for food, drinks, ice, bait, lost tackle, and gasoline for the boat.

I provide the boat, tackle, rods and reels, house (mortage payments, insirance, utilities, maintenance, etc). Not a great deal for me, but I'm glad to share with others as long as I can afford to do so.
Whatever you decide to do, make sure you tell the people "the deal" before they arrive. Hate to see a friendship runined over $75 or thereabouts in your case. I have heard many stories from others that resulted in shouting matches and even a fistfight. Personally i only got beat one time out of over 100 trips with at least twenty different guys. It was a guy in his late teens that lived nearby, he forgot his wallet and I forgot to ever invite him again.

That are the key points. The whole point of asking the question is so I can decide how I am going to handle this and so that everybody knows upfront so there are no hard feelings. The second part is that having this second home is a big deal for us. We are very blessed to be able to do this but if I am taking guys fishing 3-5 days a week when they come down I just don't think sharing all the expenses is going to work for our situation. If it was just for a day or even a weekend that wouldn't be a big deal but I think most of my fishing buddies are going to come for the better part of a week and fish pretty much every day the weather allows. Even splitting expenses could get to be a pretty big budget item.

Let them know up front and then it is their decision to visit or not.

You said you were going to fish solo in addition to going out with your buddies 3-5 days a week when they visit. Sounds like you are going to burn a lot of gas. Doing your own maintenance will help.

What you need to be careful with is entering into an area where you may be considered to be "chartering"...

The Coast Guard has some pretty strict guidelines concerning charging folks to go out fishing with you. They call it "consideration" and it specifically limits you to receiving exact expenses for the trip; for fuel, food, beverages or other supplies. You can look up [46 U.S.C. 2101 5A] Nothing mentions gas for your truck.

If you do piss off one of your "guests" and they decide to flip on you..it could be hairy.

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned this yet, but by your description you are a "for hire" operation. The c.g. could come down on you with a ton of fines if you are inspected and they ask the wrong questions. And they will ask your guests those questions, starting innocently enough with "who is paying for this trip".

If you want to work this way, get your oupv license, register with your state, and get commercial insurance.

You aren't even close to a grey area here.

And don't think you are safe because you keep things quiet. As soon as one the real charter boats near you gets wind of your little guide service, they will drop a roll of dimes to get you checked.

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned this yet, but by your description you are a "for hire" operation. The c.g. could come down on you with a ton of fines if you are inspected and they ask the wrong questions. And they will ask your guests those questions, starting innocently enough with "who is paying for this trip".

If you want to work this way, get your oupv license, register with your state, and get commercial insurance.

You aren't even close to a grey area here.

And don't think you are safe because you keep things quiet. As soon as one the real charter boats near you gets wind of your little guide service, they will drop a roll of dimes to get you checked.


How do you equate paying for fuel a guide service??? He is takings out friends from time to time. At best we are talking aboute making a technical argument that there is not a voluntary payment. He is also absorbing the costs of home ownership and letting people stay for free. Common sense please.

How do you equate paying for fuel a guide service??? He is takings out friends from time to time. At best we are talking aboute making a technical argument that there is not a voluntary payment. He is also absorbing the costs of home ownership and letting people stay for free. Common sense please.

Agreed.:thumbsup:

Here is the definition :

Consideration means an economic benefit, inducement, right, or profit including pecuniary payment accruing to an individual, person, or entity but not including a voluntary sharing of the actual expenses of the voyage by monetary contribution or donation of fuel, food, beverage, or other supplies.

So I have a buddy who wants to come down and all he can afford is the plane ticket (Lord knows they aren't cheap anymore) ain't a big deal. Will take them fishing and have fun doing it. Unlike some guys on here who seem to want to take the fun out of things.

I don't ask for any money and really discourage it but invariably I find money left - sometimes in a pocket, sometimes on the counter, sometimes in the dry-box in the boat. Our visitors are very generous and understand the expense and work it takes to make for a good fishing experience.

Sharing the actual cost of the trip is fine, we do that all the time. "Sharing", does not mean your fares pay the total cost of fuel, any portion of maintenance or docking fees, any portion of your truck's expenses, or any portion of your expenses (insurance) not actually related to the trip itself.

Basically, if everyone, including the captain/owner, pays an equal share of fuel, bait, food, etc, then it is cost sharing and permitted.

The captain cannot be excluding from "sharing". You cannot exchange room and board for expenses of operating the boat. You cannot advertise for "friends" to join you. You cannot make their payment of expenses a condition of voyage.

If you do any of those things, you will be considered for hire. To make it worse, insurance companies don't agree with the c.g., and consider you for hire if your guests contribute to your expenses (that used to be the c.g. ruling until it was amended). So you could find your insurance company stepping aside on a claim since you aren't covered for commercial operation.

You are in essence running a guide service. You are offering room and board, equipment, and passage in exchange for payment of fuel and other expenses. It is for hire.

What can you do? Drop the truck fuel expenses, let them volunteer to pay an even share of the trip expenses (on a voluntary basis), and ask for some money for the room and board to offset what you can't charge for on the boat trips.

I'm not trying to kill anyones fun, but you have to live within the rules. Charter captains spend a lot of money to get trained, pay for insurance, advertise, and maintain a boat with all the proper safety equipment, permits, and fishing gear. If that is the business you want to be in, go for it. Lots of guys do it part time. But don't fly a business under the radar.

I took a trip to alaska and went fishing with a friend of my mother-in-law. he insisted that i stay at his place (had a hotel booked), fed me and we had a great time fishing together every day. the first day I offered to buy gas, he said no i never let a guest pay. I offered to clean the boat up when done cleaning fish, he said you clean the boat I'll clean the fish. When he got a box of bait out of his bait freezer I noticed it was the last box and I made an excuse to go into town and I bought three boxes of bait to restock his freezer.

the point of the story is this: after that trip, I quit worrying about guests paying for gas. now If i ask someone to go I plan to pay for the day, if they offer to chip in for gas or bait or food I graciously accept. However, if someone asks me to take them fishing then I always say sure if you help me fill the tank when we get back. I find that works, if they go they buy some gas and if they don't want to buy gas they seem to always be too busy???

good luck, hope you enjoy the new camp.
Jerry

The captain cannot be excluding from "sharing".

Where it the law do you see that? There is no requirement in the law that says there needs to be any proportionality in sharing.

You cannot exchange room and board for expenses of operating the boat. That might apply if the OP was GETTING free room and board in exchange for people using the boat. That is not the case here because the OP is GIVING free room and board.

I cannot imagine the level of convoluted thinking one would need to conclude that letting people stay for free at a their home would be considered an element of consideration or benefit for a fishing trip. Quite the opposite in fact.

You are in essence running a guide service. You are offering room and board, equipment, and passage in exchange for payment of fuel and other expenses. It is for hire.Your conclusion is not supported by the facts or the law.

It appears that Gerg has made the common mistake of assuming that anything that does not meet a strict interpretation of an exclusion means that every other possibly situation is prohibited. That is wrong thinking. The facts and circumstances need to be considered in these situations.

If you're friends pay for ALL the fuel you are "for hire".

Keep it simple. Do what is pretty much customary down here.

Keep the boat FULL.

Go fishing, have fun..

End of day FILL BOAT BACK UP and divide the price equally.

You are legal.

Everyone is happy, as they see what the fuel cost is, no speculation that you are overcharging people etc.

Foolproof.

I'm not a lawyer and I'm not playing one here, but the regs are pretty clear:


Passenger for hire means a passenger for whom consideration is contributed as a condition of carriage on the vessel, whether directly or indirectly flowing to the owner, charterer, operator, agent or any other person having an interest in the vessel (46 U.S.C.2101(21a)).

Consideration means an economic benefit, inducement, right, or profit including monetary payment going to an individual, person, or entity. It does not include a voluntary sharing of the actual expenses of the voyage, by monetary contribution or donation of fuel food, beverage, or other supplies (46 U.S.C. 2101 (5a)).

If the "sharing" is a condition of passage, it becomes a consideration and the trip is for hire.

But I'm not the CG. You can run your boat any way you want, just remember there are real charter captains out there who will call the CG in if they feel you are competing with them (some feel all rec boats compete with them).

The CG frequently interviews passengers away from the owner, and if they ask them "who is paying for fuel", and the guest replies "I am, he is taking me out in exchange for fuel", you sir, are facing a court experience.

If you're friends pay for ALL the fuel you are "for hire".

Keep it simple. Do what is pretty much customary down here.

Keep the boat FULL.

Go fishing, have fun..

End of day FILL BOAT BACK UP and divide the price equally.

You are legal.

Everyone is happy, as they see what the fuel cost is, no speculation that you are overcharging people etc.

Foolproof.

that is perfect and simple... seems people make things way to complicaited...

I like your plan because you talked to your friends/co-workers ahead of time...

that is perfect and simple... seems people make things way to complicaited...

I like your plan because you talked to your friends/co-workers ahead of time...

Pretty much the way it gets done around me as well. Sometimes, we get in after the fuel dock is closed so I simply tell people who ask how much fuel we used, how much it costs at the dock, and what that comes to for a full tank. If people want to contribute, great, if they don't put a hand in their pocket that's fine as well. The owner is always counted in the share list.

Nobody is expected to pay a share. Those that do are more likely to be on the invite list in the future. ;)