Marine Electronics Forum - finalizing my Wiring schematics

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View Full Version : finalizing my Wiring schematics


mwardncsu
03-27-2012, 10:42 PM
I had some time today on a flight out west to try and finish up my wiring diagrams for my Sea Hunt BX24 "partial rewire".

I welcome any feedback before I start committing wire to shrink-wrap terminals this weekend (hopefully). I'm specifically interested on any feedback for the battery setup. One thing I am debating - I am going to use the 187-series breakers on my console feeds. Battery -> Switch -> Breaker -> long run to fuse panels. The distance from the Battery to the Switch may exceed 7", but it should not exceed 12", but I'm doubtful I can get off the battery and through a radius and onto the switch mounted to a bulkhead in 7". Just how "critical" is this distance ;?

"Aft" Wiring - Battery Setup
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd309/ward0625/SeaHunt%20BX24/Console%20Wiring%20_%20Before/Aft-032812.jpg

Console Fuse Panels
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd309/ward0625/SeaHunt%20BX24/Console%20Wiring%20_%20Before/ConsoleBreakers-032812.jpg

Primary Console Switch Panel
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd309/ward0625/SeaHunt%20BX24/Console%20Wiring%20_%20Before/PrimaryConsolePanel-032812.jpg

Secondary Console Switch Panel
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd309/ward0625/SeaHunt%20BX24/Console%20Wiring%20_%20Before/SecondaryConsolePanel-032812.jpg

E-box Switch panel
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd309/ward0625/SeaHunt%20BX24/Console%20Wiring%20_%20Before/E-box-032812.jpg


philgorp
03-28-2012, 06:04 AM
that must have one hell of a plane ride. :grin: i'm lucky to get thru the skymall a couple of angrybirds and the customs forms.
thats a really nice diagram. the breakers for the baitpumps might be a bit on the low side.

mwardncsu
03-28-2012, 07:15 AM
Thanks - well - it was a couple of flights and then several hours last night at the hotel when nothing was on TV. I was was working from a Visio "template: that Birdman had provided that had some of the symbols already and was a bit of the inspiration, although I built up the fuse blocks and bus-bars, etc.

On the bait pumps - 5A is what came on the boat - I am pretty certain they are all 500 gph Rule pumps with a nominal amp draw of 2.5A at 13.6V and about 2.1A at 12V - and looks like the specs actually call for a 2.5A fuse . Even the 800 gph and 1000 gph pumps only pull 3.9A @ 12V and call for a 5A fuse so it should be OK there.


wingless
03-28-2012, 02:45 PM
Change the implementation to only have one wire on each battery terminal. It is LOTS easier for service.

A dimmer for the switch illumination is very useful.

Don't forget stereo memory continuous fused power.

It is 12V RETURN or GROUND, not -12V.

On my boat both the radar and the plotter have an Earth ground connection, in addition to +12V and 12V RETURN.

Use the marine wiring color code. Use high quality connectors, like Ancor or T&B. Use a high quality double crimp tool for the small stuff and a high quality hydraulic crimp tool for the big stuff. Use battery cable adhesive shrink tubing, not regular adhesive shrink tubing on the battery cables. Label both ends of every wire. Have the wire labels match the schematic labels. Use chafe protection, like split loom. Secure the wire along the length w/ Adel clamps or wire ties w/ anchor holes.

The Kid
03-28-2012, 04:20 PM
Label both ends of every wire. Have the wire labels match the schematic labels.

X1,000,000

Saves a million headaches down the road. Wont need the diagram t-shooting on the water.

Being an I&C Engineer...I have seen the worst and the best. Doing it right the first time makes all the difference.

BTW, hell of a schematic. Looks like you know what you're doing and then some.

wingless
03-28-2012, 04:33 PM
Label both ends of every wire. Have the wire labels match the schematic labels.X1,000,000

Saves a million headaches down the road. Wont need the diagram t-shooting on the water. My wires are labels w/ a Brady IDXpert (http://www.bradyid.com/bradyid/pfpv/Printers-and-Label-Makers~Portable-Label-Printers~IDXPERT%E24%A2-Labeling-Printers.html) w/ self-laminating labels and heat shrink labels.

Here is an example.

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m52/wingless-pics/Boat/Stereo/SalonEntryRemoteWires.jpg

mwardncsu
03-28-2012, 09:38 PM
Change the implementation to only have one wire on each battery terminal. It is LOTS easier for service.

A dimmer for the switch illumination is very useful.

Don't forget stereo memory continuous fused power.

It is 12V RETURN or GROUND, not -12V.

On my boat both the radar and the plotter have an Earth ground connection, in addition to +12V and 12V RETURN.

Use the marine wiring color code. Use high quality connectors, like Ancor or T&B. Use a high quality double crimp tool for the small stuff and a high quality hydraulic crimp tool for the big stuff. Use battery cable adhesive shrink tubing, not regular adhesive shrink tubing on the battery cables. Label both ends of every wire. Have the wire labels match the schematic labels. Use chafe protection, like split loom. Secure the wire along the length w/ Adel clamps or wire ties w/ anchor holes.

Thanks Wingless / TheKid....

On the battery connections, I only plan to have the +12 and Ground leads and then the battery charger leads. The factor setup had several 12V returns connected to the "-" battery post and a few +12V's connected to the +12 posts. I'm planning to consolidate the 12V returns on a bus bar as long as I can find a place to mount it - on the +12, I am currently planning to do so at the battery switch posts. If I recall the auto-bilge supply was directly connected to the battery - guess it can also go to the battery switch if room allows. I'm not wild about putting a +12V bus bar with the batteries and switches/breakers due to space.

No Stereo memory in this case - its a Lowrance SonicHub (at least I don't think so, I'll double check - but this is something the installer who did my previous work did not do :mad:)

Illumination dimmer - I don't know that I have a way to dim anything - the only "dash" illumination I have is on the switches, the compass light and the CommandLink gauges (which BTW, you can't control externally with an input - only via internal gauges settings... :bashhh:). The other illumination is intended to be bright when needed - fore & aft LED spreader lights; a Taco LED t-top light (white/red); gunnel insert LED lighting ( and probably some in the console toe-kick), and LED lights in the E-box and bilges.

On the 12V RETURN or GROUND - thanks for clarifying - I always knew it as Ground but I followed the template I picked up which called it -12V and I recall some discussion here about the difference in the "12V Return" and Ground (which sometimes refers to chassis ground or earth ground, etc). I'll go with 12V RETURN for clarity.

I've got high quality shrink wrap, zip ties and anchor points, etc coming out my ears ready to go on. The boat uses black for the 12V Return wiring, so I'm sticking with that vs. going to yellow for consistency. I am going to have to "extend" the wiring harness going to the switch panels and will most likely end up using red for the source side of those leads due to the prohibitive cost of purchasing a 25' or 50' spool for all of the right color wires when I need only 1' or 2' each - but I WILL be labeling each wire. Any chance you want to send that sweet Brady IdXpert laber down to me for a couple of weeks as a loaner? :grin: Right now my plan is to print labels on my Brother p-Touch labeler in black on white tape and cover the labels with clear shrink wrap - each end of the wire that I terminate - or elsewhere if not labeled and I can get the clear heatshrink over the existing termination.

And once done, the schematics will be updated with wiring colors/gauges on each wire indicated, missing stuff added ( realized I missed the auto bilge and also things like the fuel tank sender are not indicated, nor are the "ground" wires) and I'll include the load schedules that show the normal loads, gauge of wire used, fuse/breaker size and the overall ABYC wiring calcs for the branch circuits. They will get printed on a color laser printer (so that it holds up longer than printed with an ink jet), laminated and a copy kept on the boat and at home for future reference.

wingless
03-29-2012, 01:10 AM
On the battery connections, I only plan to have the +12 and Ground leads and then the battery charger leads.The charger leads could / should be tied to the MBSS instead.


Illumination dimmer - I don't know that I have a way to dim anything - the only "dash" illumination I have is on the switches, the compass light and the CommandLink gauges (which BTW, you can't control externally with an input - only via internal gauges settings.Those could all be driven through a dimmer circuit, instead of directly connected to +12V.


I've got high quality shrink wrap, zip ties and anchor points, etc coming out my ears ready to go on. Good. Also get the battery-grade shrink tubing for those cables. It is different.


Right now my plan is to print labels on my Brother p-Touch labeler in black on white tape and cover the labels with clear shrink wrap - each end of the wire that I terminate - or elsewhere if not labeled and I can get the clear heatshrink over the existing termination. That is fine, except clear shrink tubing does not have a UL rating.

mwardncsu
04-01-2012, 05:21 PM
I realized this weekend that I could get my house battery into the console as long as I stay with a 24V trolling motor (no immediate plans to change - when/if my TM dies I might upgrade, but hopefully that won't be for a long while).

So, after playing with spacing I confirmed it CAN fit, and it would be nice to get the weight of the Grp 29 battery into the center of the boat. However, it means changing up my planned battery wiring / circuits / switches to something more complicated and adds around $200 give or take to my material cost (and the pain of trying to pull two more large gauge wires down into the rigging tube...)

I'm still debating if the cost and complexity is worth it, but below is what I believe would work - basically replicates a BEP Switch 715H cluster (may even just buy it and separate one of the switches).

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd309/ward0625/SeaHunt%20BX24/Console%20Wiring%20_%20Before/ConsoleBattSetup.jpg

Does this hold water? It means running a pair of 2 ga (at least - do I need 1 ga or 1/0? The run is about 12 feet from the rear battery switch to the console battery - and I'll be cranking a Yamaha F250.

Wired this way I could power the house loads from the house battery or the cranking battery, the engine could be started from the house battery if needed, I can isolate the house loads and/or the motor from the rest of the system - the only thing this does not allow is connection of the house to the motor WITHOUT having the cranking in parallel.


Alternative, I keep the house battery under the rear starboard seat next to the cranking battery....
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd309/ward0625/SeaHunt%20BX24/Console%20Wiring%20_%20Before/Aft-032812.jpg



Or, I put the house battery in the console, with its own switch, and then carry a high quality set of jumper cables in the event something goes wrong.....

The Kid
04-02-2012, 11:23 AM
Or, I put the house battery in the console, with its own switch, and then carry a high quality set of jumper cables in the event something goes wrong.....

Sea is building, wind is howling, your drifting into the rocks....

You could either:

A. flip a switch and get the hell out of there.

Or

B. find the jumper cables, remove the seat, attach one side of cable. go to house battery, attach cable. Return to helm. Cross Fingers! Turn key. Then.......so on and so on.


I would pick A. There is a reason it's called Emergency Parallel.

wingless
04-02-2012, 12:04 PM
The latching contactors (http://www.thehulltruth.com/4470244-post12.html) used on my boat are useful for long-term load connection. A similar part, w/o the latching feature, is good for short term connection.

mwardncsu
04-02-2012, 12:57 PM
The Kid - I know...... and then keep the jumpers aboard as a backup to the backup...... if I'm going to do this, do it right I guess. Is 2 ga sufficient for the battery cable running from the emergency parallel switch to the aft battery switch (12-13 ft run one way, cranking a Yamaha F250B 4-stroke)? I'm just not sure I'm going to be able to get another pair of 2 ga or 1 ga to make the bends across the stringers and into the rigging tube...... should be enough room once I get into the tube.....


Wingless - I'm not familiar with the latching (or non-latching) contactors - what purpose do they serve and how do they operate?

thanks....

wingless
04-02-2012, 02:02 PM
Wingless - I'm not familiar with the latching (or non-latching) contactors - what purpose do they serve and how do they operate? A contactor is a fancy name for a high-current relay. A latching contactor toggles the relay contacts from open to closed with a short current burst, then holds that state without drawing additional current. A short current burst then flips the state to contacts open.

On my boat the factory used all the latching contactors shown instead of using a MBSS for my three battery banks.

The factory also used a non-latching contactor for the emergency start switch, to short my starboard and port banks together.

Byter
04-02-2012, 02:19 PM
mwardnscu, Thanks for posting the diagrams. I am getting ready to install the electronics on my boat and I'm using your diagrams. Thanks! Keep on posting...

mwardncsu
04-02-2012, 02:56 PM
A contactor is a fancy name for a high-current relay. A latching contactor toggles the relay contacts from open to closed with a short current burst, then holds that state without drawing additional current. A short current burst then flips the state to contacts open.

On my boat the factory used all the latching contactors shown instead of using a MBSS for my three battery banks.

The factory also used a non-latching contactor for the emergency start switch, to short my starboard and port banks together.

Wingless - gotcha - an automated battery "switch" - thanks....

mwardncsu
04-02-2012, 03:00 PM
mwardnscu, Thanks for posting the diagrams. I am getting ready to install the electronics on my boat and I'm using your diagrams. Thanks! Keep on posting...

Byter - I take no responsibility when your boat instantaneously burst into a ball of flame :grin:

I confirmed with BEP (well, Marinco), that the proposed diagram is valid - it is basically taking their 715H Cluster and "extending" one end of it. It ends up joining the two batteries together, which it seems there is some mixed opinion on if you have a highly discharged battery, but it is also way any of the 1,2,1+2 switches would do and/or the Blue Sea 6011 Dual Circuit Plus switch would do.

Obviously do the math on your loads and then the sizing for your wiring and breakers/fuses.....

Byter
04-02-2012, 06:03 PM
Byter - I take no responsibility when your boat instantaneously burst into a ball of flame :grin:

I confirmed with BEP (well, Marinco), that the proposed diagram is valid - it is basically taking their 715H Cluster and "extending" one end of it. It ends up joining the two batteries together, which it seems there is some mixed opinion on if you have a highly discharged battery, but it is also way any of the 1,2,1+2 switches would do and/or the Blue Sea 6011 Dual Circuit Plus switch would do.

Obviously do the math on your loads and then the sizing for your wiring and breakers/fuses.....

Lol. There's probably 100's of ways I can do that all on my own! Actually, I am only using the electronics fuse box sections of your diagrams with pretty much the same Lowrance equipment. Although, I may install a charger at some point. Thanks.

mwardncsu
04-02-2012, 06:14 PM
Gotcha - what I've not shown on that diagram is the "yellow" wire connections on the Lowrance gear. The HDS units will have their yellow wire connected together and likely with the NEP-2 unit. The radar and SonicHub will probably end up with their +12V direct to the fuse panel and the yellow to the switch panel (to +12V), and the NMEA2K power node and the LWX-1 switched as shown (I may combine those onto one DPST switch just to free up a switch). Debating if I switch the LSS yellow wire or if I connect it to the HDS yellow wires - need to think through when I'd want the LSS on/off in relation to everything else.

wingless
04-02-2012, 09:17 PM
Gotcha - what I've not shown on that diagram is the "yellow" wire connections on the Lowrance gear.My boat has an entire section of current-protected devices that are not switched on/off by the contactors (MBSS) and are instead always powered unless the breakers are opened or the batteries are disconnected. These are identified as being fed from the LINE side of the contactor and the switched side of the contactor is identified as the LOAD side.

These "always on" LINE circuits are:
System Monitor - 5A - Port
Sump Pump - 15A - Port
FWD Bilge Pump - 15A - Port
AFT Bilge Pump - 15A - Stbd
Emergency FWD Pump - 15A - Stbd
Stereo Memory - 15A - Stbd
Blower #1 - 6A - Port
Blower #2 - 6A - Stbd
Everything else is LOAD side and is fed from the main DC breaker panel in the engine room, including the two additional breaker panels and the four additional power point posts.



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