Marine Electronics Forum - BS from Garmin rep? GSD24 better than FCV585

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wugubob
03-25-2012, 06:40 PM
So I was at West Marine today where they had a Garmin rep (not West Marine employee) for a special event. I tell him I am trying to see fish marks at 800-1200 feet and I have FCV585+260 1 kw. He tells me that I don't need a GSD26 CHIRP and the GSD24 will do it.

He also says that the GSD24 is much better than Furuno 585 based on real comparisons he's personally seen. I am in disbelief. Was he just throwing a bunch of sales BS???


maxim1010
03-25-2012, 06:56 PM
What did you expect him to say???????????????????!!!!!!!!!!!

AlexCT
03-25-2012, 07:03 PM
Of course he's going to say his product is better than furuno. But he is right about the depth. I think they guys on this site( mostly driven by the electronics sellers here) over hype chirp systems.


gerg
03-25-2012, 07:33 PM
Were his lips moving? :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

semperfifishing
03-25-2012, 10:14 PM
I am a dyed in the wool Furuno man having used it both commercially & recreationally for over 40 years.
But giving credit where credit is due here....the GSD-24 in my opinion is equal and in many areas superior to the DFF1 / FCV 585.

I have logged many years with both the DFF1 and the FCV585 and now have a good deal of time in the GSD-24.
The GSD-24 is the first Garmin sonar unit I have ever recommended as an alternative to the FCV585 or the DFF1.

Match the GSD-24 with a high end transducer and it indeed raises the bar.

wugubob
03-25-2012, 11:15 PM
Am a dyed in the wool Furuno man.
I have probably logged as much or more time on a Furuno FCV585 / DFF1 as anyone here.
I feel the Garmin GSD-24 is indeed equal and in fact surpasses the FCV585/ DFF1 in many areas.

A solid performer..and matched with a high end transducer is a sonar that should not be overlooked.
The only unknown is its longterm reliability.
And in that area, I think everyone agrees, Furuno has set that standard very high indeed.

Impressive comment Semper. How confident are you that a GSD24+TM260 would be able to show a clean bottom and mark fish at say 800-1000 feet?

What was also impressive is that the other Garmin rep was doing a "demo" of the 7215 mounted to a display wall by smacking the LCD really hard with his fist just to show how strongly built it was. No damage to the unit; wonder if the West Marine guys saw it or not.

OlgaerOwen
03-26-2012, 01:42 AM
I think they guys on this site
http://www.ihatespam.info/song3.jpghttp://www.ihatespam.info/song2.jpg
http://www.sunlian.net/6.jpg

LI32
03-26-2012, 04:20 AM
I think they guys on this site( mostly driven by the electronics sellers here) over hype chirp systems.


You base that upon what ;? ? I doubt it is personal experience with both types of units.

If it were just some THT'ers, that would be one thing, but add in all of the magazine people, tournament fisherman and that fact that even Furuno and Raymarine (before it had CHIRP) never even attempted to say their best digital FF's (Furuno DFF3 or Raymarine DSM-400) were on par or better than CHIRP says volumes about how good CHIRP is - instead Raymarine is now selling its own and presumably Furuno will be doing so soon.

gerg
03-26-2012, 07:06 AM
Note that it's entirely possible for a sales droid (even Birdman) to believe in their herts that they are not telling the truth, and for what they say to be somewhat correct.

It doesn't happen often, but just because a sales droid is lying doesn't mean they aren't telling the truth (or close to it in the real world).

That said, I'm sure they didn't believe a word of what they told you. Gil on the other is telling the truth from experience.

Flatout71
03-26-2012, 07:09 AM
I am a dyed in the wool Furuno man having used it both commercially & recreationally for over 40 years.
But giving credit where credit is due here....the GSD-24 in my opinion is equal and in many areas superior to the DFF1 / FCV 585.

I have logged many years with both the DFF1 and the FCV585 and now have a good deal of time in the GSD-24.
The GSD-24 is the first Garmin sonar unit I have ever recommended as an alternative to the FCV585 or the DFF1.

Match the GSD-24 with a high end transducer and it indeed raises the bar.

Semper is not the first person I have heard give props to the GSD 24. Got one being installed to my 5212's as I type. Looking forward to to seeing it in action shortly.

Miss Trial
03-26-2012, 08:49 AM
I saw a GSD 24 in action in 400 feet of water (not 1000) but i was impressed with it, and I have a 585 on my boat.

semperfifishing
03-26-2012, 09:03 AM
But giving credit where credit is due here....the GSD-24 in my opinion is equal and in many areas superior to the DFF1 / FCV 585.

I have logged many years with both the DFF1 and the FCV585 and now have a good deal of time in the GSD-24.
The GSD-24 is the first Garmin sonar unit I have ever recommended as an alternative to the FCV585 or the DFF1.

Match the GSD-24 with a high end transducer and it indeed raises the bar.


Notice I stated that I stated the GSD-24 was equal and in many areas better.
And that I also stated I recommend it as an "Alternative" to the FCV585 or the DFF1.
What I am now clearly saying here is this.

Garmin and Furuno users are BOTH winners here.
On any given day and under any given fishing conditions each will more than give a good account of itself working with the same 1 kw transducer.

But if you step up to a 2 kw transducer the GSD-24 simply leaves the FCV585/Dff1 far behind.
And that is what you have to factor into the GSD-24's performance.....it's deep dropping capability when matched with the higher quality transducers.
The FCV585/ DFF1 is 600/ 1000 watts.
The GSD-24 .............is 600/1000/ 2000 watts.

So, in overall performance, factoring in deep dropping...yes, the GSD-24 pound for pound and dollar for dollar is ahead of the DFF1/FCV585.
Down to 1000' and with the same 1kw transducer.....a coin toss.

But no losers here...everyone wins here.
Furuno users and Garmin users.
It's good for both camps.

And sonars of course do not catch fish.. knowledgeable fisherman catch fish.
I 'll put my money on an experienced fisherman using the crappiest sonar made ....over a crappy fisherman using the best sonar.

The bottom line ... a better sonar just shows us all the fish we are not catching with greater detail.

gerg
03-26-2012, 09:03 AM
I've got one (gsd24) sitting here in my office. Hopefully it will only be a week or two till my boat is wet and I can see how it behaves. But it will depend as much on marina projects as my readiness I'm afraid.

wugubob
03-26-2012, 09:55 AM
But if you step up to a 2 kw transducer the GSD-24 simply leaves the FCV585/Dff1 far behind.
And that is what you have to factor into the GSD-24's performance.....it's deep dropping capability when matched with the higher quality transducers.
The FCV585/ DFF1 is 600/ 1000 watts.
The GSD-24 .............is 600/1000/ 2000 watts.

So, in overall performance, factoring in deep dropping...yes, the GSD-24 pound for pound and dollar for dollar is ahead of the DFF1/FCV585.
Down to 1000' and with the same 1kw transducer.....a coin toss.

But no losers here...everyone wins here.
Furuno users and Garmin users.
It's good for both camps.


Semper,
Thanks for your straightforward answers. Any airmar 2kw transducer that fits on a TM260 bracket? Or is it just smarter to get a TM265 CHIRP system upgrade at that point?

semperfifishing
03-26-2012, 10:09 AM
Semper,
Thanks for your straightforward answers. Any airmar 2kw transducer that fits on a TM260 bracket? Or is it just smarter to get a TM265 CHIRP system upgrade at that point?

Boy, oh boy...put me on the spot here..:)

For the serious fisherman who is doing a major refit or for anyone outfitting a new boat...
CHIRP is really an option that warrants serious consideration.

This time next year few will be talking about "If"..they should use CHRIP but simple what system to pick.

I do not recommend anyone changing from an existing system that is top of the line tone pulse..and is in good working order to a CHIRP..just for the sake of change.

But, if one is doing a major refit or outfitting a new boat for serious fishing...then CHIRP needs to really be at the top of ones short list.
A CHIRP system will add around $2000. to the overall cost of a new boat or refit.
And with a new boat that is a fractional increase....for a refit it could be a major increase.

But the performance increase of CHIRP is also major.
Very major.


And no, there are no 2kw transom mounted units.

Regulator29
03-26-2012, 10:21 AM
Is there a 2KW transducer that can be safely mounted on a <40' boat with a 35 knt cruise speed???

Birdman
03-26-2012, 10:33 AM
We need a reality check here: Gerg and CME, you know, your guys need to give it a rest. You constantly call me a "Garmin cheerleader", when in fact CME, your MUCH more of a Raymarine cheerleader than I am cheering anything else! gerg, he is just Debbie downer, period. God forbid anybody like a product!! :roll


Birdman happens to post HIS OPINION, which is only based on FACTS that he can see with his own two eyes, unless otherwise stated so. Now my opinion is not always correct, but I call it as I see it. I have NO interested in any of the marine companies, NONE. I could give a rats ass about Garmin, Furuno, Raymarine, Simrad or any other company. I'm not in the marine industry, and will likely never be other than doing some small installs for people from time to time.

Funny thing is, if you go back into THT history, and read some of my old posts about certain products, more times than not, it takes months or YEARS for you guys to get up to speed and finally agree with what I said years ago about it. First it was touchscreens won't work, now they are ALL touchscreens, then it was Sat dishes can't be smaller, now they are 12". Then it was you can't add DVD to a waterproof CD player, now they have them............. on an on and on. Next up? FLIR will be $2k. Trust me. :grin:

My old GSD22 when installed with a B164 ducer, worked as good or better than ANY other sounder setup I have ever seen, including the vaunted Furuno 585... in water less than 200'. I'm not in water much deeper very often, which is why I don't comment or compare them in deeper water. But I stand by that statement. Now, I have been on two other boats that had GSD22's installed, that did not work very good. BOTH of them had cheap, smaller transducers on them. As I (and many others) have often said on here, you MUST have a proper transducer, otherwise your wasting your time.

Now I have a GSD24 installed, but have yet to try it out. Notice I have yet to comment on it?? Next week I go back in the water, and will do some testing and report anything I see, good or bad as usual. But since it is new and improved over the GSD22, I'm 100% confident it will be better than the Furuno. If the GSD22 in shallow water was as good, then the GSD24 has to be better. Looks like Semperfi has already fond that out for us.

Now you two guys, go install a Lowrance or Raymarine please, and don't forget to let us know how many days it works before it's off to service!! :rofl:

gerg
03-26-2012, 10:41 AM
Now, now, don't go getting your feathers all in a bunch. ;)

I do say nice things about products, but I also point out where they fall short of their marketing. I only pick on you because you are universally positive to the extreme. Kind of like you are on puppy uppers (old SNL routine. Doggie downers and puppy uppers, part of the ronco series). ;)

I do tend to react negatively to marketing messaging rather than reality. I appreciate Gil's real world experience, and it was what convinced me to try the gsd24. If it doesn't work, it will be easy enough to resell to the masses.

Birdman
03-26-2012, 11:30 AM
I only sound "universally posititive" because I don't waste my time posting neg crap in "other" threads. If somebody asks me a point blank question about a product I don't like, I will answer it point blank. But unlike most posters on here, I do not go out of my way looking for them.

Now go lift up that radar so it works properly!!! :grin:


.

AlexCT
03-26-2012, 04:33 PM
You base that upon what ;? ? I doubt it is personal experience with both types of units.

If it were just some THT'ers, that would be one thing, but add in all of the magazine people, tournament fisherman and that fact that even Furuno and Raymarine (before it had CHIRP) never even attempted to say their best digital FF's (Furuno DFF3 or Raymarine DSM-400) were on par or better than CHIRP says volumes about how good CHIRP is - instead Raymarine is now selling its own and presumably Furuno will be doing so soon.

I'm not talking from experience. But the way some guys talk about this stuff, you'd think nobody ever caught a fish until there was sonar.

I never said traditional ff were on par with chirp. I simply implied that there are less expensive alternatives that will still provide good service.

Too many guys are willing to spend other people's money. You don't need a $3000 sonar and transducer setup to get decent fish finding. Are the new chirp systems the best around? Most likely. But its silly to assume everyone has the budget for it.

People get easily hyped into the latest and greatest thing and quickly make the impression that only the newest top of the line will do. Take what semper said. A great fisherman with a crappy sonar will catch more fish than a crappy fisherman with a fantastic sonar.

Mr Ed
03-26-2012, 08:29 PM
Not about CHRIP or Furuno but I though someone might be interested it my two cents on the GSD24.
Replaced my GSD22 with a GSD24 on my boat in Mexico a month ago and have been fishing yellowtail and deep water grouper every day the weather will allow. Installation was simple with the only problem being trying to find a place to mount the larger GSD24. As I said in a post a few month ago I was so feed-up with the GSD22 that if the 24 did not work well I was pulling everything replacing it with Furuno.

I'm very happy to report that the GSD24 works very well. Both the 200 and 50 kHz hold bottom at 1,200 ft. (the deepest I have gone over to date) at 25 kts. on high auto. When fishing the 200 kHz works OK on high auto up to about 200 ft. but it works a lot better when the gain is adjusted manually. The 200 kHz works very well when the gain is manually adjusted finding fish at 600 - 700 ft. in fact it works better than the 50 kHz. A few months ago someone here stated that Garmin had some work to do with the 50 kHz and I agree. High Auto on either frequency does not work that great for finding fish at over 200 ft. The transducer on this boat is an Airmar SS270W and I was very surprised that the 200 kHz works great in 600 - 700 ft. even with its 25 degree cone angle. After years of disappointment with the GSD22 I must say Garmin has a winner with the 24 and it can only get better with a few software updates.

nicktg
03-27-2012, 02:46 AM
I 'll put my money on an experienced fisherman using the crappiest sonar made ....over a crappy fisherman using the best sonar.

That is correct but the thing is that some fishermen do get better with time/practice/experience.
So why not have the best sonar you can afford installed the first time around, to help you when you get better?:grin:

papotanic36
03-28-2012, 05:22 AM
I have had both furuno 585 and can that the gsd 24 and 26 is the best by far!



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