The Boating Forum - Things I learned at the Providence Show

I had the pleasure of attending the Providence show yesterday afternoon. With my impending boat rewiring task I spent alot of time snooping in bilges and under consoles for ideas. I looked at 20-30 foot center consoles exclusively. I'm not in the market for a boat nor am I trying to justify mine relative to the current market. THE FOLLOWING IS NOT BASHING! Here are some of my observations:

1. Proper bilge pump capacity is non existent across the board on factory rigged boats. What's another few hundred bucks on an $80K boat? Most, including the big guys like Grady, rig with one 1000-2000 gpm Rule. The exception was Bluefin who rigs all their boats with 3 pumps.

2. Apparently macerator and wash down pumps sell boats. Everything I looked at was well equiped in this department.

3. If you want a clean properly rigged wiring job you gotta spend north of $50K unless you buy a Parker.

4. All of the boats had provisions for dual batteries, Edgewater was the only company that rigged with a Battery Isolator/starting-house switch cluster (BEP Marine). Everybody else uses the usual 1-2-Off switch(es)

5. Triton does a really nice job with wiring and included a charger on the 25ish foot model I looked at.

6. Out of all the boats I looked at the 24' Century had the worst looking wiring - it was a full on rats nest - nice boat though...

7. Wire labling was hit or miss. A couple boats had none. It seemed if one wire was properly labled, they all were.

I got interrupted before I could finish...stupid work always getting in the way...

There was nothing dangerous or faulty about the wiring that I could see on any of the boats I looked at. Just different levels of care and different levels of bells and whistles in the installation.

If I was buying a new boat I might consider requesting that the motor(s) be hung and leave it at that. Doing the wiring myself would be a bunch of work but it seems like there would be substantial value in getting it exactly the way you wanted it and knowing how everything worked.

Not defending Grady here, or trying to start an argument.

Grady site shows the 225 and smaller boats as having a single bilge pump (1250-1700 rated), with the 226/228 and larger all having dual bilge pumps (2500-2950).

I would think many manufacturers follow some similar practice.

Brian

I don't doubt that you are correct. It may simply be a case of "holy crap we need to get this thing rigged for the show". I'll bet in some cases the the mfgr. didn't even rig the boat so it is hard to lay blame on them. I'm just passin on what I saw.

Even so, IMHO, 2 bilge pumps are the minimum on any size boat.

Those Grady's I looked at were SWEET. The only thing that was in the same ball park was the Regulator 23FS.

Chem,

Did you see what a POS the Mako (268?) was? Horrible fit/finish, and the gelcoat was terrible as well! :roll

74Formula-

Yeah - I stopped in with the Makos long enough to wish that they were building them like they used to. I was bumbed out. It sucks to see a great old name like Mako attached to the junk that was at the show.

It was so horrible. The console cabin liner was not even attached right, and had a HUGE gap visible as soon as you opened the door. It was just SOOO bad. I saw a lot of stuff that I :roll at, but there were plenty of beauties to make it worth while for sure! Just had to know what you were looking at :grin:

Chemguy


Did you have a chance to look at the Maritime Skiffs? I would be interested in your opinion of them. I do understand they tend to be pricey but other than that, any feedback? Wiring? I am seriously considering the 20DF.

Chemguy

I was at the Prov show yesterday too. Five boats struck me...the Regulator you mention, the 23FS, what a great uncluttered aft deck on the Regulator, with scuppers big enough to drain tons of water, the new Bluefin 27 and my favorite, the Pursuit 26, which impressed me all around..storage & fit & finish, a 27' custom hull from Kennebunkport ME, and the McKee Craft Freedom 24. I too noticed the quality and work in most low tier boat electrical bus panels..most cases...rats nests! As the price goes up, so does the workmanship and detail, wires bundled and labeled etc. I also liked the looks of the new Everglades (from Mr. Boston Whaler himself..) line of CC boats out of Florida with powder coated rails and T-tops..I looked at the Cobia's so didn't bother to look over the Century boats in the Dunk as basically they come from the same place/molds..
Still in shock that an 18' Whaler is now 37K!!! Gotta go tell my boss I need a 20K raise!! I think the show is getting better every year. Some good deals from towing companies...also....Tow Boat US was offering 3 years for the price of two...for $200.00..

SurfMan
'03 Sea Hunt 202 CC

Fluke-

I did look at the Maritimes. Those pilot house/consoles they have going are really cool. I have toyed with the idea of putting one on my boat. They sell them seperately but they are pricey.

As for the wiring they landed in the middle I would guess. The one I looked at (Defender 20?) had all the wires bundled and secured nicely. Breakers instead of fuses and nice switches. I don't remember seeing drip loops on anything but the Regulator and Parkers so the Maritime was probably without.

Those Maritime folks build a darn nice boat. Nothing fancy but really strong.

Thanks ChemGuy, good reading :thumbsup:

SurfMan-

That McKey 24 would be way up on my list. The height of the gunwhales is what did it for me. Really nice fit and finish was gravy after that. The one thing I didn't like was the depth of the Euro-style transom. If a big striper ever decided to take you around the back you'd be hard pressed to clear the prop without jumping out there.

Like they say - No boat is perfect, ya got to compromise.

I went to the Prov. show too and at first I thought the Regular 23FS had a huge fishing area in the back, until I noticed that there was no seating behind the console. Put in a leaning post and that area will shrink real fast. I believe that dealer left off the leaning post to pretend like the boat has alot of room.


Otherwise, I like the show. I personally went to look at Parker's namely a 2520XL or DV. I was very dissapointed. The dealer, Don's Marine had NO show specials at all. They only listed MSRP on the side of the boats. What a joke !!

Also, the dealer knew nothing of the price difference between the XL and DV. Robin Parker was there too, I asked her, and she didn't know either. WTF. I couldn't believe it.

All the salesman said was "something like $12K". I said WHAT !?!?!? It was apparent he was guessing.

That aside, Robin Parker did admit that there is really nothing different in the XL vs. the DV, (other than deadrise) so I really wonder why they claim to charge more for this model?

John_Madison CT - 1/10/2005 4:25 PM
I went to the Prov. show too and at first I thought the Regular 23FS had a huge fishing area in the back, until I noticed that there was no seating behind the console. Put in a leaning post and that area will shrink real fast. I believe that dealer left off the leaning post to pretend like the boat has alot of room.


John- I am a little confused regarding the Regulator model being discussed. There is a 24, FS24 and a 23 Regulator. The 24 and 24FS model have the euro transoms and are lacking space behind the leaning post due to the transom design. The 23 has the old style cut-out transom and has plenty of room aft.

http://www.regulatormarine.com/23.html#
http://www.regulatormarine.com/24fs.html

Good Post

Thanks

I have to remember to add another HI VOLUME pump to my HS. I do have 3 in the Carver.

I went there Sat and what most impressed me and depressed me was the prices. The Parker did seem to have maybe the best boat for the $$$ but even they are pretty pricey.... :(

ChemGuy What you liament is trully depressing,the quality,and prices is enough to keep you on the shores.Then add the brand names that don't live up to the Quality levels that they once held.I totally agree with you,it's to the point-sell me the rig,but i will do all the rigging myself!!!!

To all,

If you look at the transoms on just about ALL the Grady White boats, which was really apparent as they were all lined up against the "dock" or gangway...the whole aft section is a waste with the euro style transom...just trying to lead/fight a fish around that transom and motor would be difficult unless your arms are 5-6 ft long....And the Grady 18ft CC was ...(if my memory serves me correctly...38K!! For an 18' Center Console.) Now the Grady is fine fine boat, never a doubt here...but this style transom has something to be desired as far as I'm concerned....probably most other purist fisherman too....and I looked at the big Mako on display in the Dunk...didn't bother to board it...because in my view the quality has slipped @ Mak as well as SeaCraft....and I didn't even see them at the show...did anyone see any SeaCraft?

I'm happy with my Sea Hunt 202CC..although the dealer there told me I never should have bought an Optima Marine battery for my Sea Hunt because they...and I quote ..."explode"...whow...quite an open ended statement...it's interesting (and comical..) to listen to some of the sales pitches that some of these guys try on "newby" boat buyers. I'll just say, do your research on the Hull Truth before you plunk down your hard earned cash!

SurfMan
Sea Hunt CC

Sleeper-

It's the 23FS here is the badge off the console:

<img src="http://home.comcast.net/~masswhites/little_reg_bagde.jpg"

It's not a Euro transom. Rather it's closed like the bigger models and set up to be rigged with a bracket. The scuppers are 2" X 6" and the space behind the console is huge. As said before it's a little decieving because they had no seats or leaning post rigged. The salesman said they leave em like that so the buyer can decide what seating option they would like installed.

Maybe it's a new model?

Chemguy- thanks, I don't see that lay-out or model on their web site. Must be a new offering.

You could say the same about Pursuit and Scout as well. The euro-transoms are very popular with many boaters despite the already mentioned issue of leading a fish around the motors. In 8 years of owning such a style, I have never had the problem. I always steer the boat to keep the fish off the side quarter. Anytime the line is near the props, regardless of transom style, there is a risk of losing the fish.

I have to agree. I've never had a problem fishing with a euro transom. Are you guys using a hand line?

I'll admitt I'm an arm chair quarter back about the fish around the euro-transom thing. I've never even fished on a boat with a euro transome.

It looks awsome for diving and swimming.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems there are a couple "basic" techniques to fishing a "euro with outboards" vs. either an I/O, Inboard, or standard transom w/Outboard.....

IN GENERAL.........

(I have an I/O obviously).....I can fish just about anything without moving the boat, because it is very hard to get a line wrapped on my setup, since my outdrive is right up against the boat. I can and have many times walked fish all around the stern, including sharks & tuna, and not had a problem with the drive being in the way. Worst case, last year, once, I lifted the drive because I had a HUGE Blue Shark that just wanted to do large circles under the boat, LOL, so I trimmed her up, and there was no way to get snared. I would think one would be in a similar situation with a traditional outboard setup or inboard.

Now, using common sense, and techniques others have posted here, with euro transoms/outboards....you more often would be required to operate the boat in a manner so as to keep the fish off the starboard or port side, and not crossing the stern back and forth. It's simple geometry, because the distance between you standing at the stern, and the end of the transom and then the outboard, is huge, especially with these new huge 4-strokes. Common sense says it is a disaster waiting to happen, to have a fish racing back and forth off the stern during a fight. Hence having to keep the boat positioned "correctly".

Not trying to start a debate, just trying to state what I view are 2 big differences. I think when people state they have no problem fishing a particular setup, that it should be clear what techniques are being used. It's simply adapting your technique to "do what you need to do".

Again, this is my view, since I have not fished a euro with an outboard, but I dare say it's pure common sense, the "observation" I am making. ;?

I find that when I am fishing light tackle - which is most of the time - a big fish dictates what I do. There is no way I can hang onto a 30 lb striper if I try and horse her with 12 lb mono so I often find myself doing laps around the boat. Right now when I pass the stern with a fish it requires that I lean out with the rod. It just seems like it might be harder to do with a euro or bracket. That being said there are tons of guys that make it work.

I think we are all guilty of formulating opinions based on what we know...not necessaly what we could learn...or what appears to make sense. It's just human nature.

It's a good thing we have this forum - otherwise most of us would never consider something new.

All of the boats had provisions for dual batteries, Edgewater was the only company that rigged with a Battery Isolator/starting-house switch cluster (BEP Marine). Everybody else uses the usual 1-2-Off switch(es)

I'm still scratching my head on this one. None of the boats I had looked at came with the BEP. But for $200.00-$300.00 the dealer would put in 3 switches for me. I just bought a BEP 3 way with isolator for $139.00

FASTFJR-

Based on responses to this thread that point out things that are contrary to "what the catalog says" I think we should assume that the boats I looked at had extras added by the dealers that brought them to the show. Hell, for all I know those boats were sold and options that were installed were at customers requests.

The prices for Maritimes is extremely high when you add in all the extra's. I dont know why people want to put that kind of money into what is really a very low cost rolled edged skiff with a full length wood floor.

ChemGuy - 1/10/2005 12:56 PM

74Formula-

Yeah - I stopped in with the Makos long enough to wish that they were building them like they used to. I was bumbed out. It sucks to see a great old name like Mako attached to the junk that was at the show.

Ya know Ole Bob Schwebke is my great uncle and he sure did start something great that is now a POS. What a shame BPS!!! :mad: Oh well he made a huge impact during the 70's, at least that was good for the overall industry and the center consoles of today. :thumbsup:
SOS

Chem - not sure you can say across the board on the single bilge pumps. Lot of boats use two one forward one aft.
As far as battery isolation, it depends on the power plant/s being configured. Why because some engines have a dual battery charge circuit, one lead for the house and one for the main power, so in essence the house battery could stand alone.

KevinM

I think you are right. Bluefin is an example of a company that rigs 3 on every boat that goes out of the factory, two aft and one forward. Looking at the other 25ish foot boats and seeing a little tiny 1100 gpm pump at the stern didn't really make sense to me. Even if they did have a monster pump mounted in the bow it seems like you would want the biggest pump at the lowest point.

Maybe not though - maybe what works best is mounting a bigger pump up higher as kind of a "crash pump".

I didn't know that some motors have seperate charging circuits - that is really clever. That way the guys who built the motor can be sure that some crappy wiring job isn't going to fry the alternator and get people pissed at the motor company

I'll be the first to admit I pretty new at rigging boats but I'm trying to learn. One thing I have learned is there are about as many ways to rig a boat as there are people doing it.

Chem -What makes the dual charging circuits neat is that the house battery will always be cahrging no matter what the position the main switch is in. With that said, some boat manufacturers don't take advantage of the dual capability, so you have to ask questions. It usually costs a little more to rig a boat for this capability even though the outboard has the means. But you hit the nail on the head, you gotta get your head in the bilge and understand the design, so you can make a fair assessment. I think the saying beauty is only skin deep applies to this industry!
Good luck with your project!

SurfMan - 1/10/2005 5:59 PM



I'm happy with my Sea Hunt 202CC..although the dealer there told me I never should have bought an Optima Marine battery for my Sea Hunt because they...and I quote ..."explode"...whow...quite an open ended statement...it's interesting (and comical..) to listen to some of the sales pitches that some of these guys try on "newby" boat buyers. I'll just say, do your research on the Hull Truth before you plunk down your hard earned cash!

SurfMan
Sea Hunt CC

I agree- I was at a Hydra-Sports dealership in Mass. one time,and there was an old Sea Craft hull sitting back in the lot. I was new to Salt Water boating at the time-but I liked the lines of that hull and I remarked about what a good looking hull that was,and the dealer said, and I quote-"SeaCraft ? They Sink"! And then he went on to tell me how the older SeaCrafts had some sort of design flaw that made them sink easily. I was a newbie, but I still knew BS when I was down wind of it! :grin:

I looked at the Cobia's so didn't bother to look over the Century boats in the Dunk as basically they come from the same place/molds..

Just for the record...

Cobia and Century use the same molds on all bay boats and CCs up to Cobia's 185 and Century's 1801.

All boats above these sizes are entirely unique to each product line.

and I quote-"SeaCraft ? They Sink"!

If they sunk as easy as he said there wouldn't be so many of the older ones still around.

The Regulator 23FS is a new model. They have added the splash panel in the back and the fwd seats to name a couple things. OH marine leaves the leaning post off of all of their pre-ordered unsold boats because Regulator offeres a variety of options.

I thought the McKee 24 was a great boat. There are a couple things that would make it near perfect. You can't open the fish boxes unless you have two people because of the twin latches. One latch is all you need. My Regulator has a 4 foot wide fishbox and I can open it with one hand in rough seas with a fishing glove on. Also, in a 24 Foot 8'6 boat one should be able to walk between the Console and the gunnels without touching either. With the Freedom 24 you have to turn slightly sideways - and I am average build. My 20'6 with 8'3 beam regulator has enough room to walk freely - with a t-top, huge console and coaming pads. Other than that I loved the 24. Whens the 26 coming?

I thought the Bluefin was lousy. The fishbox latches were cheap, and the floor was soft. I don't like a soft floor. I was a bit dissapointed with it. looks good from the outside.

The Alaskan - 1/12/2005 11:02 AM

I agree- I was at a Hydra-Sports dealership in Mass. one time,and there was an old Sea Craft hull sitting back in the lot. I was new to Salt Water boating at the time-but I liked the lines of that hull and I remarked about what a good looking hull that was,and the dealer said, and I quote-"SeaCraft ? They Sink"! And then he went on to tell me how the older SeaCrafts had some sort of design flaw that made them sink easily. I was a newbie, but I still knew BS when I was down wind of it! :grin:

The guy (dealer) was obviously a COMPLETE MORON! :roll :grin: ;?

aquasport17 - 1/12/2005 11:42 AM Also, in a 24 Foot 8'6 boat one should be able to walk between the Console and the gunnels without touching either. With the Freedom 24 you have to turn slightly sideways - and I am average build. My 20'6 with 8'3 beam regulator has enough room to walk freely - with a t-top, huge console and coaming pads.

I believe your Regulator, like all Regulators, is a 3 piece hull. Could that be the difference?

Well, both boats are functionall the same design. You can have a 2 piece hull with the same setup. The McKee has the same type of gunnels as my boat does. I think it is the space between the T-Top posts and the console. Much more than needed.