The Boating Forum - Fatal boat accident today in Homosassa, FL?

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k9medic
08-21-2011, 04:21 PM
I'm hearing word that there was a fatal boating accident today in Homosassa, FL. Something about a triple engine boat flipping near marker 9. Anyone in the know?


JOEKEN
08-21-2011, 04:27 PM
This is all I could find.
http://keysnews.com/node/33962

mike carrigan
08-21-2011, 04:33 PM
This is all I could find.
http://keysnews.com/node/33962

No, That's a Dade/Monroe accident, lower east coast.
Homosassa is Citris county, northern west coast of Florida.


fireboat
08-21-2011, 04:41 PM
Unfortunately, there is another boat fatality today by a teen in a Fort lauderdale canal.
http://www.wsvn.com/news/articles/local/21005166200832/

jbutah3000
08-21-2011, 04:44 PM
http://www.baynews9.com/article/news/2011/august/298563/Several-injured-one-dies-in-Citrus-Co-boating-accident.html

Marlin009
08-21-2011, 04:45 PM
It's been nice here today, a few T-storms but not bad.

fireboat
08-21-2011, 04:51 PM
Crap, 4 people die in Florida alone in three different boating accidents on one day. Be careful out there.

Rolandt03
08-21-2011, 04:51 PM
9 people on board, one died not sure of condition of the others!

jeremyj
08-21-2011, 04:53 PM
Here's all I could find:

http://www.chronicleonline.com/content/man-dies-boating-accident

Report says Marker 19. That's just inside the stakes, not exactly a tricky area to navigate.

Prayers for the families of all involved.

Capttater
08-21-2011, 05:20 PM
Heading there Thursday if this storm heads more east. Hopefully it won't be busy during the week.

jeremyj
08-21-2011, 05:39 PM
Update from the local paper:
"Homosassa businessman dies Sunday in boat accident (http://www.thehulltruth.com/content/homosassa-businessman-dies-sunday-boat-accident) A man identified as Rob Phillips, owner of Eagle Buick GMC Inc. in Homosassa, died Sunday afternoon in a boating accident in the Homosassa River that involved eight other people.
Sometime around 4 p.m., the Citrus County Sheriff’s Office responded to the incident near Marker 19. A command center was set up at River Haven Marina off Halls River Road.
Heather Yates, spokeswoman for the sheriff’s office, said one man, aged between 45 and 47 years, had died."

Our thoughts and prayers go out to his family.

TooReel
08-21-2011, 05:55 PM
Very sad day in Homosassa.

mike carrigan
08-21-2011, 06:04 PM
Very sad day in Homosassa.

Yes it is.
We're such a small community it has quite an impact.
Very-very sad day.

flatbrokeoldman
08-21-2011, 06:15 PM
The reports I heard have indicated that the pilot and owner of the boat, a new 39ft forward cuddy Contender powered with triple Yamaha 350s, Rob Phillips was killed and his son was injured and flowned to an Orlando or Tampa hospital. No reports of the other 7 people onboard Some say the boat flipped and some say the boat hit a marker and flipped. I will know more in a day or two. Please pray for the family.

thumperlove
08-21-2011, 06:31 PM
That looks like the tunnel from an Invincible? Sorry for the loss.

mike carrigan
08-21-2011, 07:02 PM
That looks like the tunnel from an Invincible? Sorry for the loss.

Knowing the man, being a long time customer, and not having a full understanding, I'm somewhat at a loss other than to join with those offering prayers for the family.
Initially, my thoughts went to Pro-Line people as to the triple O/B boat.
I was afraid that some of ours were involved, even though production was moved to N.C., but a contingent is still in Crystal River.
Terrible news.

Tommysmicroskiff
08-21-2011, 07:16 PM
That's a Lot of boat ! Similar to this

http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff263/comerplumbing/contender.jpg

article

http://www.baynews9.com/article/news/2011/august/298563/Homosassa-car-dealer-killed-others-injured-as-boat-flips?cid=rss

jets
08-21-2011, 08:11 PM
Know the area well. Approaching green marker 19 you have to turn hard to port or starboard depending on your direction. One day going out early I got distracted talking to my crew and missed my turn to starboard and was in shallow water real quick. This time of the year it gets a little crazy with scalloping. Prayers to the family.

freebornman
08-21-2011, 08:24 PM
new member (Kevin) and new/first time boat owner here from 20 miles from homossassa. been lurking for months.

This is a terrible thing. My sympathy goes out to his family and friends. hopefully this will help us all to remember safety first.
last thursday 6:20a.m. I arrived at the Gandy Bridge ramp to launch and there were headlights pointing up out of the water from well beyong the end of the far left boat ramp...a fellow was there alone and he told me that he had fallen out of his truck while backing up - his new truck kept on in reverse without him. Fortunately, he was ok, his boat was floating. Police arrived behind us...
My 12 year old son and I are taking all this in as we have spent much time on the water fishing and boating with friends and guides, but never imagined some of the things we see and hear.

There will most likely be an update on the local news.

Tommysmicroskiff
08-21-2011, 08:51 PM
Kinda Nuts I run a tiny 15 foot boat there... I think It's a Slow Zone ...

http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff263/comerplumbing/marker19.jpg

Tommysmicroskiff
08-21-2011, 08:54 PM
I Run that area and can usually just run the shore line I Can run in 6" Though ... I think It's a slow zone ...

Know the area well. Approaching green marker 19 you have to turn hard to port or starboard depending on your direction. One day going out early I got distracted talking to my crew and missed my turn to starboard and was in shallow water real quick. This time of the year it gets a little crazy with scalloping. Prayers to the family.

ISLANDER11
08-21-2011, 09:21 PM
Knowing the man, being a long time customer, and not having a full understanding, I'm somewhat at a loss other than to join with those offering prayers for the family.
Initially, my thoughts went to Pro-Line people as to the triple O/B boat.
I was afraid that some of ours were involved, even though production was moved to N.C., but a contingent is still in Crystal River.
Terrible news.

I'm with you Mike. I knew Rob for a lot of years, this is a real tragedy. My prayers are with April and the family, especially the injured kids.

mike carrigan
08-22-2011, 04:47 AM
That's a Lot of boat ! Similar to this

http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff263/comerplumbing/contender.jpg

article

http://www.baynews9.com/article/news/2011/august/298563/Homosassa-car-dealer-killed-others-injured-as-boat-flips?cid=rss

No, if a Contender, a totally differnt bottom. probobly stepd.
The loss is tragic and personal to me.
As I'm understanding what happened, if I'm understanding it correctly, I think I can see what and why it could happen.
I immediatly spoke to a PL guy who lives in CR when I learned of it because I was worried it was one of ours. I dont work for PL anymore, but still use the word "ours". He told me the weather got real bad, he was out in it, lightning and such.

A horrible thing.

Tommysmicroskiff
08-22-2011, 05:04 AM
I think Bay News 9 must have used a "file photo"

Also I was corrected on the location it was much further out possibility NOT a slow zone

Some comments are saying a rigging failure


The reports I heard have indicated that the pilot and owner of the boat, a new 39ft forward cuddy Contender powered with triple Yamaha 350s, Rob Phillips was killed and his son was injured and flowned to an Orlando or Tampa hospital. No reports of the other 7 people onboard Some say the boat flipped and some say the boat hit a marker and flipped. I will know more in a day or two. Please pray for the family.

k9medic
08-22-2011, 05:08 AM
I'm with Mike... I grew up in CR and have spend a lot of time on the Homosassa, Salt and Crystal rivers. Although I have moved away, I have quite a few friends that are still there - hence to word traveling so fast.

Horrible day for boating.

Wolakrab
08-22-2011, 05:21 AM
My condolences to the family of the man who died, and I hope the injured heal quickly.
Hopefully there will be additional details as to what caused the accident.

oseadpc
08-22-2011, 05:25 AM
I wonder if he turned to sharp and the stepped hull blew out? I heard at the Miami boat show one year someone was seriously hurt on a Contender demo ride when the same thing happened when the Capt. made a sharp turn and threw the guy into the T-Top.

riverfisher
08-22-2011, 05:26 AM
Heard it was in Hells Half Acre.

boggs187
08-22-2011, 05:47 AM
Hi guys. My sister in law is related to the Phillips family and the word is that Rob was coming through the channel with 2 other boats. One pulled back and the other continued through the narrow channel, rob then went outside the channel marker and hit some submerged rock on with the engines. The boat started to hop and skip due to the engines being knocked out of linement and then flipped. Everyone except Rob were ejected and unfortunately Rob was killed on impact. This is what I was told late last night, my condolences for the Phillips family.

TooReel
08-22-2011, 05:54 AM
That could happen. I was day dreaming one day and missed the markers. Realized what I had done and it was too late to make the turn so I chopped the throttles and bumped bottom pretty good.

triumphrick
08-22-2011, 05:55 AM
Hi guys. My sister in law is related to the Phillips family and the word is that Rob was coming through the channel with 2 other boats. One pulled back and the other continued through the narrow channel, rob then went outside the channel marker and hit some submerged rock on with the engines. The boat started to hop and skip due to the engines being knocked out of linement and then flipped. Everyone except Rob were ejected and unfortunately Rob was killed on impact. This is what I was told late last night, my condolences for the Phillips family.

Such a shame to hear all of this...my condolences to his family....

That channel is a beast to navigate sometimes...and more than once I have gotten off kilter there. Most of the waterways around these parts are dredged out of limerock....and the rocks and bottoms here can be treacherous.

Just a shame to read of it taking a persons life....

ContenderBoats
08-22-2011, 06:47 AM
I wonder if he turned to sharp and the stepped hull blew out? I heard at the Miami boat show one year someone was seriously hurt on a Contender demo ride when the same thing happened when the Capt. made a sharp turn and threw the guy into the T-Top.

We have never had anyone get seriously hurt on a Contender demo ride at the Miami Boat Show.

Touche
08-22-2011, 07:06 AM
sad. Was the boat the 39 or 37' Contender with a tower on the lift up near the springs? (assuming the baynews9 photo isn't a file photo)

2swift
08-22-2011, 07:44 AM
Prays sent.:(

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h183/patczeck/boat-flip-homosassa-821_rdax_676x507.jpg

boggs187
08-22-2011, 07:46 AM
Dont know if it had a tower but it was a 39' contender with triple yamaha 350's. Boat was only several months old.

thumperlove
08-22-2011, 08:29 AM
Awful:(

mike carrigan
08-22-2011, 08:52 AM
Most of those in the know have heard of the sea trial accident. Are you being specific on the "Miami Boat Show" demo ride part of the comment.

Has there ever been anyone hurt on a demo ride or sea trial of a Contender offshore stepped hull boat???

Sorry for the derail.

Awful:(

I think alot of us are deeply and personally feeling the loss of a friend, and a terrible accident, a horrendous thing.
There have been many threads on THT and others that go to step'd hulls, the good and the bad as to step'd hulls.
I too have a deep interest as to the cause, and I think I have a thought or two as to the cause of the accident.
However, I dont feel it appropriate conversation on this thread.
I'm not suggesting the topic should go unanswered, or ignored, but perhaps a different thread, at a different time.
I think some respect to the family is more appropriate than the asking if anyone has had an experiance with any particular brand and a step'd bottom.

DocStressor
08-22-2011, 09:28 AM
I was out there fishing off the outer keys this morning and saw the hull in the water. SeaTow and a Sheriff's boat were standing by:

http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/4387/accidenth.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/16/accidenth.jpg/)

I didn't want to get too close, but you can see that the overturned hull is well to the south of the channel. The shoal area is on the north side where the Sheriff and the tow boat are located.

I've seen that boat on the rack at Riverhaven Marina. It may have been stored there.

I hope when the story of this tragedy is finally explained that it can prevent future accidents. That channel is one of the most dangerous anywhere in Florida. It is very easy to miss those 2 little cans coming in after a day on the water. Many people often head right for the next day marker pole and end up on the shoal. But that doesn't appear to be what happened here unless the hull drifted quite a bit.

thumperlove
08-22-2011, 09:40 AM
I am sorry I posted in response to Contender, it was not the proper thread to respond. My thoughts and prayers go out to you all.

seabob4
08-22-2011, 09:54 AM
So that location is out in the channel past Shell Island. At least from what doc's pic shows...

I've run that channel many times at 60+. You really need to keep your eyes open and wits about you doing that kind of speed. And be ready to cut the throttles quick.

I don't know the particulars of this accident, it is tragic regardless. Condolences to the family, and may the survivors reach a speedy recovery...

For those who may not know, once the Crystal River dumps into the gulf, the channel continues for another, I don't know, 3 miles or so, and you better stay in it. Unlike further south, where there may be sandbars at the inlet's mouths, those are usually only around a mile from the entrances, dance around them and your good to go. Not up there. And as an aside, once out in that portion of the channel in the gulf, there are no speed zones...

mike carrigan
08-22-2011, 10:09 AM
I am sorry I posted in response to Contender, it was not the proper thread to respond. My thoughts and prayers go out to you all.

Your Ok Thumper.
You intended no harm.
It's gonna come up, there's no escaping it.

oseadpc
08-22-2011, 10:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thumperlove View Post
Most of those in the know have heard of the sea trial accident. Are you being specific on the "Miami Boat Show" demo ride part of the comment.

Has there ever been anyone hurt on a demo ride or sea trial of a Contender offshore stepped hull boat???

Sorry for the derail.

Awful
I think alot of us are deeply and personally feeling the loss of a friend, and a terrible accident, a horrendous thing.
There have been many threads on THT and others that go to step'd hulls, the good and the bad as to step'd hulls.
I too have a deep interest as to the cause, and I think I have a thought or two as to the cause of the accident.
However, I dont feel it appropriate conversation on this thread.
I'm not suggesting the topic should go unanswered, or ignored, but perhaps a different thread, at a different time.
I think some respect to the family is more appropriate than the asking if anyone has had an experiance with any particular brand and a step'd bottom.



^previous post^


sorry guys for the derail and theorizing on what happened on a internet forum, my information was incorrect that it happened at MIBS but I see it actually happened on a sea trial.
my condolences to the family, whether it was a rock a step hull blow out or a lightening strike accidents do happen so live every day to the fullest

mike carrigan
08-22-2011, 10:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thumperlove View Post
Most of those in the know have heard of the sea trial accident. Are you being specific on the "Miami Boat Show" demo ride part of the comment.

Has there ever been anyone hurt on a demo ride or sea trial of a Contender offshore stepped hull boat???

Sorry for the derail.

Awful
I think alot of us are deeply and personally feeling the loss of a friend, and a terrible accident, a horrendous thing.
There have been many threads on THT and others that go to step'd hulls, the good and the bad as to step'd hulls.
I too have a deep interest as to the cause, and I think I have a thought or two as to the cause of the accident.
However, I dont feel it appropriate conversation on this thread.
I'm not suggesting the topic should go unanswered, or ignored, but perhaps a different thread, at a different time.
I think some respect to the family is more appropriate than the asking if anyone has had an experiance with any particular brand and a step'd bottom.



^previous post^


sorry guys for the derail and theorizing on what happened on a internet forum, my information was incorrect that it happened at MIBS but I see it actually happened on a sea trial.
my condolences to the family, whether it was a rock a step hull blow out or a lightening strike accidents do happen so live every day to the fullest

I'm confused as to why you posted Thumpers post, then my response to it, and what the final paragraph was all about?

empty canibal
08-22-2011, 10:20 AM
deepest sympathy out to a fellow boater's family....:(

oseadpc
08-22-2011, 10:23 AM
I think alot of us are deeply and personally feeling the loss of a friend, and a terrible accident, a horrendous thing.
There have been many threads on THT and others that go to step'd hulls, the good and the bad as to step'd hulls.
I too have a deep interest as to the cause, and I think I have a thought or two as to the cause of the accident.
However, I dont feel it appropriate conversation on this thread.
I'm not suggesting the topic should go unanswered, or ignored, but perhaps a different thread, at a different time.
I think some respect to the family is more appropriate than the asking if anyone has had an experiance with any particular brand and a step'd bottom.

I'm confused as to why you posted Thumpers post, then my response to it, and what the final paragraph was all about?




I seem to be struggling with doing multiple quotes per post.

The last paragraph was my statement in response to the two previous quotes.

mike carrigan
08-22-2011, 10:29 AM
I seem to be struggling with doing multiple quotes per post.

The last paragraph was my statement in response to the two previous quotes.

You last paragraph would read that the accident occured on a sea trial, which is not the case.
At least as I read it?
I think there are two subjects your speaking of, two seperate incidents, seperated by about five months and about three hundred miles.

seabob4
08-22-2011, 10:32 AM
Sorry, my bad, I thought it was on the Crystal river, not the Homosassa...

oseadpc
08-22-2011, 10:33 AM
You last paragraph would read that the accident occured on a sea trial, which is not the case.
At least as I read it?
I think there are two subjects your speaking of, two seperate incidents, seperated by about five months and about three hundred miles.

I thought Thumper stated that the Contender accident where a guy was thrown into the T-Top happened at a Sea Trial and NOT at MIBS which is what I had heard.

shoot now I'm confused :o

thumperlove
08-22-2011, 10:44 AM
Oseadpc...just let it drop. This is not the thread to discuss contender issues and I am very sorry I ever responded to Contender Boats post.

mike carrigan
08-22-2011, 10:45 AM
I thought Thumper stated that the Contender accident where a guy was thrown into the T-Top happened at a Sea Trial and NOT at MIBS which is what I had heard.

shoot now I'm confused :o

Not a big deal.
No shooting required.

Look, I'm in the industry.
My opinion, just mine, is that a terrible occurance such as this should not be coupled to some other accident, occurance, that happened, and not related in any way.
There's very little doubt that there will be discussion, however I would hope on another thread.
My feelings on the matter are personal though.
This was a horrible thing that happened to a man and his family, yesterday, on a Sunday afternoon, in Homosassa not anything that happened in Miami.

Paul Barnard
08-22-2011, 10:47 AM
Mike and all of you who knew the deceased, please accept my condolences. If there is a silver lining in the cloud that is that accident, it is a miracle that with 9 people on that boat, there was but one fatality. It takes a spectacular amount of force to flip a boat like that.

22 BX Pro
08-22-2011, 11:20 AM
Sorry for their loss.

Looks like it happened at the first no wake zone headed back in. We went through there Sunday at about 2:30. I had a guy in a flats boat up my ass at that very same spot. I had to back down early because the guy in front of me came off a plane at the set of markers just before the no wake zone starts. Donít think mister flats boat wanted to slow down that extra 50í. He also didnít seem to like the no wake zone as he went around me and at least four other boats with a fairly sizable wake. He was back on a plane and gone way before the end of the no wake zone. That channel is crazy as it, I couldnít image what itís like with everybody trying to beat a storm.

We stilled enjoyed our day and will be back up there.

lcclark9
08-22-2011, 11:28 AM
It is terrible news that a fellow boating enthusiast has lost his life in a tragic event. My prayers go out to family, friends and employees of Mr. Phillips.

I think most builders would have expressed their condolences to the family before defending their product.

oseadpc
08-22-2011, 11:36 AM
Not a big deal.
No shooting required.

Look, I'm in the industry.
My opinion, just mine, is that a terrible occurance such as this should not be coupled to some other accident, occurance, that happened, and not related in any way.
There's very little doubt that there will be discussion, however I would hope on another thread.
My feelings on the matter are personal though.
This was a horrible thing that happened to a man and his family, yesterday, on a Sunday afternoon, in Homosassa not anything that happened in Miami.

pardon me for wondering but wasn't this thread started to discuss this tragedy? The OP asked if anyone had any additional details, although I wasn't present and did not attempt to represent that I was present I offered my opinion that the same phenomena that happened in Miami may have happened with this event.... which the last time I checked this is a public internet forum. If there is no correlation then I'm happy to eat crow after the accident report is released.

If the OP started this a thread to mourn the loss of loved ones then my posts are out of line and I'll start a separate thread.

ContenderBoats
08-22-2011, 12:35 PM
pardon me for wondering but wasn't this thread started to discuss this tragedy? The OP asked if anyone had any additional details, although I wasn't present and did not attempt to represent that I was present I offered my opinion that the same phenomena that happened in Miami may have happened with this event.... which the last time I checked this is a public internet forum. If there is no correlation then I'm happy to eat crow after the accident report is released.

If the OP started this a thread to mourn the loss of loved ones then my posts are out of line and I'll start a separate thread.

This is an extremely unfortunate event that should not even be related to any incident anyone thinks happened prior. Prior to Sunday nobody was ever SERIOUSLY injured on a stepped hull Contender. The only injury that Contender knows of was a bruised leg on a middle aged gentleman from the gunwale during a sea-trial. Contender is interested in what caused this tragic event, just as everyone else is. As for now our thoughts and prayers are with the friends and family of those involved. This is not the time or thread to discuss anything other than mourning the loss of a friend and fellow boater. Let us please move past this and begin showing respect to those who deserve the attention. Robert Phillips rest in peace, and April Phillips, Wade Phillips, Asten Phillips, Rebecca Anderson, Peyton Valls, Samantha Pauley, Reid Callahan, Delaney Owens, and Lester Kemp we wish you a speedy recovery.

thumperlove
08-22-2011, 12:39 PM
Well said Contender Boats.

mike carrigan
08-22-2011, 12:44 PM
pardon me for wondering but wasn't this thread started to discuss this tragedy? The OP asked if anyone had any additional details, although I wasn't present and did not attempt to represent that I was present I offered my opinion that the same phenomena that happened in Miami may have happened with this event.... which the last time I checked this is a public internet forum. If there is no correlation then I'm happy to eat crow after the accident report is released.

If the OP started this a thread to mourn the loss of loved ones then my posts are out of line and I'll start a separate thread.

I intended no offense, my personal feelings showed thru, I apologize to you.
Over the years I have come in contact with boating fatalities. I think it can be pretty much counted on that lawyers will be involved,who's/what's at fault, it'll all happen, always does'.
I just didn't want to see a post that was for the very most part kind and feeling toward the family get sidetracked with all the other stuff.
Pleanty of time for that, and certainly it will all come in due time, or at least, I'd be astounded if it did not.
Yes, you certainly have the right, as we all do, to post what you wish on a public forum.

id-10-t
08-22-2011, 01:05 PM
This is an extremely unfortunate event that should not even be related to any incident anyone thinks happened prior. Prior to Sunday nobody was ever SERIOUSLY injured on a stepped hull Contender. The only injury that Contender knows of was a bruised leg on a middle aged gentleman from the gunwale during a sea-trial. Contender is interested in what caused this tragic event, just as everyone else is. As for now our thoughts and prayers are with the friends and family of those involved. This is not the time or thread to discuss anything other than mourning the loss of a friend and fellow boater. Let us please move past this and begin showing respect to those who deserve the attention. Robert Phillips rest in peace, and April Phillips, Wade Phillips, Asten Phillips, Rebecca Anderson, Peyton Valls, Samantha Pauley, Reid Callahan, Delaney Owens, and Lester Kemp we wish you a speedy recovery.


this should have been your first post not your second, I see still working on the PR

Such a shame for the family ,and all involved, get well soon

jets
08-22-2011, 01:39 PM
Hi guys. My sister in law is related to the Phillips family and the word is that Rob was coming through the channel with 2 other boats. One pulled back and the other continued through the narrow channel, rob then went outside the channel marker and hit some submerged rock on with the engines. The boat started to hop and skip due to the engines being knocked out of linement and then flipped. Everyone except Rob were ejected and unfortunately Rob was killed on impact. This is what I was told late last night, my condolences for the Phillips family.


Wow. I can see that happening. Tough area to navigate, specially on a Sunday afternoon, with tons of boats scalloping. Terrible tragedy...

seabob4
08-22-2011, 02:14 PM
I think this accident is just that...an accident. It could've happened to a Regal easily as on a Contender. The fact of the matter is an accident occurred, and a family man lost his life. His fault? Maybe. Conditions? Maybe. Another boater (or boaters)? Maybe.

We all try to do our best out there, enjoy ourselves, take care of our families, look out for others. But some times, due to things beyond our control, it just doesn't work out...

Now is not the time to be pointing fingers, or playing the blame game. It is time to mourn the loss of a fellow boater, and to reflect on our own, sometimes fragile, lives...:thumbsup:

jeremyj
08-22-2011, 02:15 PM
Here is a link to the thread on the FS Forum:http://forums.floridasportsman.com/showthread.php?12292-Hells-Gate

There seems to be alot of conflicting information. As of this morning, the boat was still out by marker 22.

As Seabob said, this is a time to support the family, not to speculate and point fingers.

Gulf_Island_Ron
08-22-2011, 02:21 PM
Now is not the time to be pointing fingers, or playing the blame game. It is time to mourn the loss of a fellow boater, and to reflect on our own, sometimes fragile, lives...:thumbsup:

Very nicely put. :thumbsup:

First Light
08-22-2011, 02:23 PM
Here is a link to the thread on the FS Forum:http://forums.floridasportsman.com/showthread.php?12292-Hells-Gate

There seems to be alot of conflicting information. As of this morning, the boat was still out by marker 22.

As Seabob said, this is a time to support the family, not to speculate and point fingers.

As of 3pm it was back on land and the FWC was aboard. Powder blue hull with a very large powder coated t-top.

Divecaptchris
08-22-2011, 04:45 PM
Kinda Nuts I run a tiny 15 foot boat there... I think It's a Slow Zone ...

http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff263/comerplumbing/marker19.jpg

Dont know where you got this from, but it is wrong! marker 19 is in the gulf, close to the Chazawitska refuge markers, as one other said you do have to turn there and go to two markers that rusted away and were replaced by bouys. they are hard to see and casn be easly missed. Also alot of people who know the water will cut acroos it on high tide.However i would have never done that in a boat that size. The reports that it was a speed boat are incorrect, overpowered fishing boat yes! btw I passed by them on my way in less than 30 min before it happened, and yes i did cut acroos the same area he hit, but i was in a 22' deck boat. Very sad thing, wish the family all the best

TSA
08-22-2011, 05:08 PM
sad news indeed.

the end result of this accident is very similar to the recent accident in Islamorada where a Towboat US Capt ran aground at a high rate of speed. just about any hull will flip under those circumstances.

mike carrigan
08-22-2011, 05:16 PM
Dont know where you got this from, but it is wrong! marker 19 is in the gulf, close to the Chazawitska refuge markers, as one other said you do have to turn there and go to two markers that rusted away and were replaced by bouys. they are hard to see and casn be easly missed. Also alot of people who know the water will cut acroos it on high tide.However i would have never done that in a boat that size. The reports that it was a speed boat are incorrect, overpowered fishing boat yes! btw I passed by them on my way in less than 30 min before it happened, and yes i did cut acroos the same area he hit, but i was in a 22' deck boat. Very sad thing, wish the family all the best

I have a problem with your saying "overpowered fishing boat".
Why do you use the word "overpowered"?
Using that language would, to some, cause this thread, this conversation, to go to a whole new direction.
Maybe you might wish to correct that word?
Or, explain your use of the word?

Thus far, we have a referance to a totally unrelated incident, and an innuendo that there is some relation one occurance to the other.
Now, we have "overpowered"?

Where is this stuff comming from?

seabob4
08-22-2011, 05:25 PM
Mike, relax. I think the majority understand the impact of a boater's death on the boating community, so just let it lay...

We go out on the water, be it slow or fast, to enjoy the surroundings, catch some fish, take in the beauty, never even considering it may be our last day on earth.

Just keep that in mind...

mike carrigan
08-22-2011, 05:34 PM
Mike, relax. I think the majority understand the impact of a boater's death on the boating community, so just let it lay...

We go out on the water, be it slow or fast, to enjoy the surroundings, catch some fish, take in the beauty, never even considering it may be our last day on earth.

Just keep that in mind...

Bob,
I spent the entire day today with Mark Biddison.

We build boats with well over a one thousand HP rating, that can be also called "fishing boats".

There is a very major differance as to lots of HP and overpowered.

There are new car dealers in the area that enjoy some of the higher HP products, as did Rob. Lots of customers in that catagory, many brands.

I dont like the term "overpowered".

It gives a different perspective, it's wrong, and misleading.

mronzo
08-22-2011, 05:37 PM
Mike, relax. I think the majority understand the impact of a boater's death on the boating community, so just let it lay...

We go out on the water, be it slow or fast, to enjoy the surroundings, catch some fish, take in the beauty, never even considering it may be our last day on earth.

Just keep that in mind...

WRONG! I do consider it might be my or my family's or friend's last day on earth so I take steps the best I can as Captain to ensure it isn't! I check tide charts, sea and weather conditions and SLOW DOWN in high traffic areas. There are markers I know I can go outside of and those I know I can't, and if I don't know for certain I assume I CAN'T! I don't BUI either! I keep my eyes peeled for jackasses too!
This doesn't mean some jackass in a (name the boat) WON'T cream me.
You have to stay sharp out there!

Paul Barnard
08-22-2011, 05:40 PM
WRONG! I do consider it might be my or my family's or friend's last day on earth so I take steps the best I can as Captain to ensure it isn't! I check tide charts, sea and weather conditions and SLOW DOWN in high traffic areas. There are markers I know I can go outside of and those I know I can't, and if I don't know for certain I assume I CAN'T! I don't BUI either! I keep my eyes peeled for jackasses too!
This doesn't mean some jackass in a (name the boat) WON'T cream me.
You have to stay sharp out there!

The Full Monty

Tommysmicroskiff
08-22-2011, 05:43 PM
You are right Sir ;-) I was shown the correct chart ...It was on another forum but the mod is a horses azz and deleted the entire thread ... Sorry Jan but you were out of line on this one !!! I post a tribute to some that lost his life and you took it down Shame on you !!!


Dont know where you got this from, but it is wrong! marker 19 is in the gulf, close to the Chazawitska refuge markers, as one other said you do have to turn there and go to two markers that rusted away and were replaced by bouys. they are hard to see and casn be easly missed. Also alot of people who know the water will cut acroos it on high tide.However i would have never done that in a boat that size. The reports that it was a speed boat are incorrect, overpowered fishing boat yes! btw I passed by them on my way in less than 30 min before it happened, and yes i did cut acroos the same area he hit, but i was in a 22' deck boat. Very sad thing, wish the family all the best

Divecaptchris
08-22-2011, 05:46 PM
I have a problem with your saying "overpowered fishing boat".
Why do you use the word "overpowered"?
Using that language would, to some, cause this thread, this conversation, to go to a whole new direction.
Maybe you might wish to correct that word?
Or, explain your use of the word?

Thus far, we have a referance to a totally unrelated incident, and an innuendo that there is some relation one occurance to the other.
Now, we have "overpowered"?

Where is this stuff comming from?

Not ment to offend! I guess high powered is better put, my point is that is wasn't a boat built just to speed around for no real reason, as i belive most people wold think speed boat means! But again this is a tragic accedent that could happen to at any time on the water, i feel for the family and friends, and i do look forward to hearing the real cause, as i belive it will help us all be safer on the water!

mike carrigan
08-22-2011, 05:50 PM
Not ment to offend! I guess high powered is better put, my point is that is wasn't a boat built just to speed around for no real reason, as i belive most people wold think speed boat means! But again this is a tragic accedent that could happen to at any time on the water, i feel for the family and friends, and i do look forward to hearing the real cause, as i belive it will help us all be safer on the water!

Well, my second apology of the day.
I think I'm being more sensitive as to the subject than maybe I might be.
We're all human, I guess.

utopia
08-22-2011, 06:11 PM
Seems like the area requires a a safe speed and strong focus on conditions. This boat with triples should be taking it easy through there for sure . I heard the decedent was a nice guy and my prayers go out to him and his family. I heard the dealership however has integity issues when it comes to selling cars?? This is unfortunate and a sad day for boating.

seabob4
08-22-2011, 06:14 PM
Mike, relax. I think the majority understand the impact of a boater's death on the boating community, so just let it lay...

We go out on the water, be it slow or fast, to enjoy the surroundings, catch some fish, take in the beauty, never even considering it may be our last day on earth.

Just keep that in mind...

WRONG! I do consider it might be my or my family's or friend's last day on earth so I take steps the best I can as Captain to ensure it isn't! I check tide charts, sea and weather conditions and SLOW DOWN in high traffic areas. There are markers I know I can go outside of and those I know I can't, and if I don't know for certain I assume I CAN'T! I don't BUI either! I keep my eyes peeled for jackasses too!
This doesn't mean some jackass in a (name the boat) WON'T cream me.
You have to stay sharp out there!

Didn't mean to piss you off...

jeremyj
08-22-2011, 06:14 PM
I heard the dealership however has integity issues when it comes to selling cars??

I think your comment is in extremely poor taste considering the circumstances. unbelievable...

Divecaptchris
08-22-2011, 06:18 PM
I think your comment is in extremely poor taste considering the circumstances. unbelievable...

I have to second that! unreal!

seabob4
08-22-2011, 06:23 PM
Didn't realize the connection between Rob Phillips and Phillips Chevy up in Leesburg. When I lived in Orlando, a lot of people used to go up there and buy from Phillips...

mike carrigan
08-22-2011, 06:23 PM
I think your comment is in extremely poor taste considering the circumstances. unbelievable...

As a long standing customer of the dealership, and very many of us at Pro-Line were, we never had an issue with the dealership, ever.
Quite the contrary.
It became almost automatic that we bought our cars there.
I join with you, yes, very bad taste.
When I learned of the loss of a friend, it came to me that a couple of us had his top salesguy, and the guy we always dealt with, on a cell phone or two listed as "thief". Done with a sense of humor, and we called him that.
Friends can do that with one another.

tokinred
08-22-2011, 06:23 PM
Prayers for the family of Mr. Phillips. Some of the posts here are shocking. I hope the mods clean this up. I hope the injured fully recover.

docters oarders
08-22-2011, 06:44 PM
it's a sad to see a capt put others lives in danger running at high speed in a narrow channel that has known issue's . it is sad to see the coast guard doesn't have it set up better then they do with speed limits and enforcement. I know people love fast boats and to run them on the edge. but there is a time and place for it and this place was not it. A congested channel narrowing and running 40+ into a idle zone,screams asking for it.
I lost a relative to a irresponsible boat capt running at a high rate of speed when he shouldn't have.

SLTWATER
08-22-2011, 06:50 PM
Prayers to the deceased and injured. Very tragic to say the least. Some of you are " sick " on here.

south1
08-22-2011, 07:05 PM
I honestly cannot believe some of the comments on this thread! Prayers sent to the family.

mike carrigan
08-22-2011, 07:14 PM
it's a sad to see a capt put others lives in danger running at high speed in a narrow channel that has known issue's . it is sad to see the coast guard doesn't have it set up better then they do with speed limits and enforcement. I know people love fast boats and to run them on the edge. but there is a time and place for it and this place was not it. A congested channel narrowing and running 40+ into a idle zone,screams asking for it.
I lost a relative to a irresponsible boat capt running at a high rate of speed when he shouldn't have.

Many years ago, that haunts me today still, young people in a Checkmate were killed by a hi performance brand comming out of a no wake zone, bow rise hid the Checkmate, and ran over them killing the young people in the Checkmate.
This happened in St Pete.
At the time a very good friend of mine was the Checkmate rep, and my oldest son had a Checkmate that I had given him.
All of it had a great inpact with me, it was a horrid accident, and a horrible loss of life.
Fact is, with boats, as automobiles, horrible accidents do happen.
For a large part, these accidents do happen, fortunatly not many in comparison as to the product on the highway, or the waterways.
Horrible accidents will happen, very regretably so, but will.

jeremyj
08-22-2011, 07:22 PM
I honestly cannot believe some of the comments on this thread! Prayers sent to the family.

I agree. There quite a few people making statements about what transpired that day without first hand knowledge.

Huntingbigun
08-22-2011, 09:17 PM
What a sad thing for my first post, I have a home on the homosassa river and prayers for the Phillips family and all that were injured.

As far as the channel being narrow not really, it is the only spot in the bay that has double markers. They are floaters and have been a issue with them moving out of the channel. It is easy to miss the turn because you see the far marker straight ahead coming in but it is a 90 to the right and 90 back to the left through the floaters. I hit last year with my 305 whaler and was inside the green marker heading out. Now hells gate is another story. TBO has a video of the boat on a trailer after the accident.

sad day on the river and he will be missed by all.

Huntingbigun
08-22-2011, 09:49 PM
it's a sad to see a capt put others lives in danger running at high speed in a narrow channel that has known issue's . it is sad to see the coast guard doesn't have it set up better then they do with speed limits and enforcement. I know people love fast boats and to run them on the edge. but there is a time and place for it and this place was not it. A congested channel narrowing and running 40+ into a idle zone,screams asking for it.
I lost a relative to a irresponsible boat capt running at a high rate of speed when he shouldn't have.

No one has reported how fast he was going, he did have his family on board plus 6 more friends.
It is no where near the idle zone
Not a congested channel, that would be Hells Gate
Not narrow between the markers
All the channels up this way have issues we have lots of rocks and poor markers for sure

bet ya never even been on the river or ever miss a marker?


Prayers again for the Phillips Family

docters oarders
08-23-2011, 04:32 AM
No one has reported how fast he was going,

bet ya never even been on the river or ever miss a marker?


Prayers again for the Phillips Family

Witness to the accident have told FWC 40+ when he passed them. Said he was making the turn and then capsized.

Yes I have missed a channel marker but not at high speed. it was a can at night unlite in a inlet. I was not going 40+.

docters oarders
08-23-2011, 04:37 AM
Many years ago, that haunts me today still, young people in a Checkmate were killed by a hi performance brand comming out of a no wake zone, bow rise hid the Checkmate, and ran over them killing the young people in the Checkmate.
This happened in St Pete.
At the time a very good friend of mine was the Checkmate rep, and my oldest son had a Checkmate that I had given him.
All of it had a great inpact with me, it was a horrid accident, and a horrible loss of life.
Fact is, with boats, as automobiles, horrible accidents do happen.
For a large part, these accidents do happen, fortunatly not many in comparison as to the product on the highway, or the waterways.
Horrible accidents will happen, very regretably so, but will.

about the same thing that happened to us minus the checkmate. small sail boat

Ozona
08-23-2011, 04:50 AM
When the family gets out of the hospital, you can be sure they will read this post. Not only are some of you speaking ill of the dead, but your ignorant speculations are going to cause additional grief to the family.

Pathetic.

Tommysmicroskiff
08-23-2011, 05:04 AM
It's back up where I put it .... Hmmmm

ISLANDER11
08-23-2011, 05:12 AM
I heard the dealership however has integity issues when it comes to selling cars??


I have purchased well over $1,000,000 worth of vehicles from Rob, most came from Eagle and a few from Phillips in Leesburg. To say that they had integrity issues is a completely untrue. Like Mike said, it is just my default place for purchasing GMCs. I seldom even bother calling another dealership to compare pricing, I just call up Russ or Joe and tell them what I am looking for and they make it happen. Please sir, think before you speak of something you know nothing about.

jtharmo
08-23-2011, 05:35 AM
http://video.tbo.com/v/44007720/homosassa-boat-accident-remains-under-investigation.htm
very sad.......

Captain AL
08-23-2011, 07:39 AM
My brother was out there with his pro line just after the accident occured, wherever this happened, the fire rescue boat that was on its way to help also ran aground and was disabled trying to get there, so this area must not be that easy to navigate. Sad to hear about.

maxim1010
08-23-2011, 07:57 AM
Seems like the area requires a a safe speed and strong focus on conditions. This boat with triples should be taking it easy through there for sure . I heard the decedent was a nice guy and my prayers go out to him and his family. I heard the dealership however has integity issues when it comes to selling cars?? This is unfortunate and a sad day for boating.


Spoken like a idiot...You sir are a jackass!

Maiden America
08-23-2011, 08:13 AM
Seems like the area requires a a safe speed and strong focus on conditions. This boat with triples should be taking it easy through there for sure . I heard the decedent was a nice guy and my prayers go out to him and his family. I heard the dealership however has integity issues when it comes to selling cars?? This is unfortunate and a sad day for boating.

Obviously you have integrity issues.

thumperlove
08-23-2011, 08:47 AM
Seems like the area requires a a safe speed and strong focus on conditions. This boat with triples should be taking it easy through there for sure . I heard the decedent was a nice guy and my prayers go out to him and his family. I heard the dealership however has integity issues when it comes to selling cars?? This is unfortunate and a sad day for boating.

Glass house and throwing stones! Maybe you should be more concerned about your integrity instead of a mans you dont know! You too will meet your maker one day and I hope for your sake your clean:thumbsup:

myflatline
08-23-2011, 09:22 AM
it's a sad to see a capt put others lives in danger running at high speed in a narrow channel that has known issue's . it is sad to see the coast guard doesn't have it set up better then they do with speed limits and enforcement. I know people love fast boats and to run them on the edge. but there is a time and place for it and this place was not it. A congested channel narrowing and running 40+ into a idle zone,screams asking for it.
I lost a relative to a irresponsible boat capt running at a high rate of speed when he shouldn't have.


Its sad to see the Coast Guard not having the proper channel markers to aid in navigation. The floating bouy's are useless in the waters around here. Its easy to sit back and armchair quarterback until it happens to you. I know of at least 10 boats in the last year that have been damaged because of piss poor markers

Rob was very well respected in this area and will be missed

TooReel
08-23-2011, 10:18 AM
The Homosassa channel is filled with nuns and cans and you can never count on them being where they should. You have to know your line and run it. Was following a boat in the other day. Saw the green in Hells Gate and just as I was thinking it was in the wrong place the boat in front jumped a few times. Saw him later at the springs and the prop was toast.

There are lots of posts in this thread that are way out of line. I've lived in Leesburg every day (except weekends when I am in Homosassa) of my 42 years that I have been on this earth and I have never heard a negative word about the Phillips family. This is a huge tragedy no matter what the cause.

oseadpc
08-24-2011, 05:47 AM
"Investigators say it looks like the 39 foot boat, named Waar Eagle, veered outside a channel, leading to Phillips overcorrecting it, and causing it to flip.

FWC is looking into whether alcohol was a factor, but a spokesperson told 10 News so far there is no indication that it was."

http://www.wtsp.com/news/article/206909/250/Citrus-County-car-dealership-owner-killed-when-boat-overturns-

It's be interesting to see what the GPS reports the speed at the time of the over correction.

First Light
08-24-2011, 06:22 AM
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . It's be interesting to see what the GPS reports the speed at the time of the over correction.

Why will that be interesting? Is there a speed limit in that part of the channel?

seabob4
08-24-2011, 06:26 AM
Why will that be interesting? Is there a speed limit in that part of the channel?

Not that it's the same, but I know in the Crystal River, it's 25MPH (not counting the no wakes) until you hit open water. The channel continues another few miles into the gulf, but no speed limit out there...

id-10-t
08-24-2011, 06:43 AM
Not that it's the same, but I know in the Crystal River, it's 25MPH (not counting the no wakes) until you hit open water. The channel continues another few miles into the gulf, but no speed limit out there...

I thought all florida water ways had speed limits like 25 at night 30 daytime
I certainly haven't boated every where in florida but it seams to be the normal in every place I have been

oseadpc
08-24-2011, 06:43 AM
Why will that be interesting? Is there a speed limit in that part of the channel?

go back and read my previous posts.

First Light
08-24-2011, 08:24 AM
I read them when you posted them, and they are mostly critical and say nothing of value - which is why I asked my above question.

DestinDealmaker
08-24-2011, 09:07 AM
I've been reading on this forum for a while now and just decided to join. You guys have a great thing going here!

I'm digusted with what a few bad apples on here have said about Mr. Phillips, especially when he can't be here to defend himself. I'm close to the Phillips family and have purchased 10+ new vehicles from Rob and his father over the past 10 years. They have been nothing shy of a class act to deal with. I could by my vehicles 10 miles from my house but choose to purchase from them 350 miles away.

My thoughts, prayers and condolences go out to the Phillips family and friends affected by this tragedy.

I wanted to share this news clip from Tampa bay online regarding the accident:

http://www2.tbo.com/news/breaking-news/2011/aug/22/ids-released-in-boat-wreck-that-killed-1-injured-9-ar-252118/

oseadpc
08-24-2011, 09:24 AM
I read them when you posted them, and they are mostly critical and say nothing of value - which is why I asked my above question.

Nothing critical about my posts. I simply posted a theory that he may have experienced a step blow out which in my book is a accident. As more information trickles in we will start to gain more color as to what happened that claimed the life of this man and hopefully others will learn from it and may save their lives.

Now does it make sense why knowing his speed when he made the correction will be very important to understanding what happened?

CLM65
08-24-2011, 09:27 AM
I thought all florida water ways had speed limits like 25 at night 30 daytime
I certainly haven't boated every where in florida but it seams to be the normal in every place I have been

Can't speak for the rest of Florida, but Bob is right about Crystal River- 25 mph in the channel, unless your in one of the idle zones.

gtrfred
08-24-2011, 09:28 AM
Nothing critical about my posts. I simply posted a theory that he may have experienced a step blow out which in my book is a accident. As more information trickles in we will start to gain more color as to what happened that claimed the life of this man and hopefully others will learn from it and may save their lives.

Now does it make sense why knowing his speed when he made the correction will be very important to understanding what happened?


there is that warning label at the helm of the stepped hulled contenders about hard turns at speed.

32m2
08-24-2011, 09:52 AM
bay news 9 were calling it a 42 Yellowfin?

http://www.baynews9.com/article/news/2011/august/298563/Homosassa-car-dealer-killed-others-injured-as-boat-flips

now it says "42 foot speedboat" i assume they had just made a mistake calling it a Yellowfin?

What a terrible story, prayers are certainly with this family.....

thataway
08-24-2011, 10:22 AM
I thought all florida water ways had speed limits like 25 at night 30 daytime
I certainly haven't boated every where in florida but it seams to be the normal in every place I have been

Although, as Seabob notes there are a few specific areas with posted speed limits of 25 mph, these are few are far between in Florida.

The major restrictions are: 1). "Idle Speed - No Wake" must operate at the minimum speed that allows the vessel to maintain headway and steerageway.

2). "Slow Down - Minimum Wake" must operate fully off plane and completely settled in water.

Otherwise there is a clause about operating in a reasonable and prudent manor. There are no overall state speed limits.

I do hope that we will find out what happened here--both for closure for this well respected family, and so that similar accidents might be prevented in the future. Until the investigation is complete and a report is released there is only conjecture which is ill advised.

tucker99
08-24-2011, 10:44 AM
Up here in Maryland and don't know the guy but am sure sorry for the family. Sorry, having a problem with most responses. Seems to be a tricky area, why's he doing 40MPH with all those people on the boat? A poster recalls a head on death on a small boat because a guy coming out of a speed limit zone couldn't see because of bow rise. You gotta be kiddin' he saw them before he punched it. I spend more time watching other boats than anything else. Some of us don't use the sense God gave us. Again,real sorry for this guy's family but it appears to me he wasn't a responsible boater. Not in a glass house here and I've made my share of mistakes but I would never be doing: 40 MPH, 9-people in the boat? non-forgiving channel? Blaiming the boat mfgr, come-on guys.

mike carrigan
08-24-2011, 11:49 AM
Up here in Maryland and don't know the guy but am sure sorry for the family. Sorry, having a problem with most responses. Seems to be a tricky area, why's he doing 40MPH with all those people on the boat? A poster recalls a head on death on a small boat because a guy coming out of a speed limit zone couldn't see because of bow rise. You gotta be kiddin' he saw them before he punched it. I spend more time watching other boats than anything else. Some of us don't use the sense God gave us. Again,real sorry for this guy's family but it appears to me he wasn't a responsible boater. Not in a glass house here and I've made my share of mistakes but I would never be doing: 40 MPH, 9-people in the boat? non-forgiving channel? Blaiming the boat mfgr, come-on guys.

Tucker,
I made the statement as to the Checkmate being run over because the boat could not be seen due to bowrise.
No, I'm not kidding at all.
I'm damn serious.
I said a high performance boat, but shouldn't have singled that out. Could have been any large boat.
After clearing a bridge, advaned the handles,, and while the bow was **** hunting some young people in a Checkmate were attempting to cross their path, crossing their T so to speak.
The Checkmate was run over because the driver of the larger boat could not, did not, see them.
My point went to the fact that horrible accidents do happen. Maybe freak accidents in some cases, but do, and very regretably,very sadly, will happen.
Any loss of life is tragic. The Checkmate example I used is particularily haunting to me because they were children, young people, all killed.
The "you gotta be kiddin" referance to my post is a little strange.
I wasn't kidding at all.

mike carrigan
08-24-2011, 11:56 AM
Tucker,
I made the statement as to the Checkmate being run over because the boat could not be seen due to bowrise.
No, I'm not kidding at all.
I'm damn serious.
I said a high performance boat, but shouldn't have singled that out. Could have been any large boat.
After clearing a bridge, advaned the handles,, and while the bow was **** hunting some young people in a Checkmate were attempting to cross their path, crossing their T so to speak.
The Checkmate was run over because the driver of the larger boat could not, did not, see them.
My point went to the fact that horrible accidents do happen. Maybe freak accidents in some cases, but do, and very regretably,very sadly, will happen.
Any loss of life is tragic. The Checkmate example I used is particularily haunting to me because they were children, young people, all killed.
The "you gotta be kiddin" referance to my post is a little strange.
I wasn't kidding at all.

Question for anyone:
In this post of mine, I used the term "**** hunting" referance to just that, hunting racoons that go up a tree and looking up into the air is part of **** hunting. When my post was posted, the word "****" was substituted with "*'s.
I didn't do that?
Anyone?
I've always called a hull that took forever to plane out "**** hunting".
A hull that the bow pointed up into the air forever until planing out.
We got an oversensitive Mod here somewhere?

mike carrigan
08-24-2011, 11:58 AM
question for anyone:
In this post of mine, i used the term "**** hunting" referance to just that, hunting racoons that go up a tree and looking up into the air is part of **** hunting. When my post was posted, the word "****" was substituted with "*'s.
I didn't do that?
Anyone?
I've always called a hull that took forever to plane out "**** hunting".
A hull that the bow pointed up into the air forever until planing out.
We got an oversensitive mod here somewhere?

racoons are called by some of us a four letter abbreviation!
Geeeeeeeeeeez!

thumperlove
08-24-2011, 12:02 PM
Guys, there are numerous individuals on here that know this family. I dont think this is the time or place to question the RUMORS of how this happened. I posted earlier about an unrelated incident and I am upset at myself for that. Time will tell what happened, the authorities will get to the bottom of it, at that time when the facts are clear we can all become keyboard captains and reflect on where/what/who was at fault if anyone. As it stands it is a an awful and tragic event that we need to all take a second and reflect on how dangerous being on the water really is.

Fish-on-21
08-24-2011, 12:16 PM
Guys, there is numerous individuals on here that know this family. I dont think this is the time or place to question the RUMORS of how this happened. I posted earlier about an unrelated incident and I am upset at myself for that. Time will tell what happened, the authorities will get to the bottom of it, at that time when the facts are clear we can all become keyboard captains and reflect on where/what/who was at fault if anyone. As it stands it is a an awful and tragic event that we need to all take a second and reflect on how dangerous being on the water really is.

I completely agree! The fact of the matter is that a man, a well respected man at that, lost his life and his children will no longer grow up with their father around. Not to mention the devastation his wife and friends are going through. The lack of respect shown by a few is just awful.

Cajun Martini
08-24-2011, 12:20 PM
Look. Even the safest and most experienced operator can make a mistake. That's why they're called "accidents". The only positive that can come from a tragedy like this is reminding the rest of us how quickly it can happen to anyone. I already sent the link to the news story to my 18 year-old son. He's a better, more natural boat-operator than I am. When the going gets tight I'll often (but not always) give him the helm. But he's still an 18 year-old boy.

Restricted (or no) visibility from bow rise is scarey. My boat does it, to some extent. I presume most larger boats with big outboards do it. So if you're not driving from upstairs, you put in some tab, look three times to be sure you're clear, stand up as high as you can, push the throttles down with authority and hope no jet skier or something darts out from nowhere in the couple of seconds before you have a clear view, again. Pretty hard to live with if they do!

We're talking about a bunch of weight and horsepower, here. And sudden, unexpected forces can and sometimes do occur (remember the charter captain who was thrown out of his fly bridge and died coming into Jupiter last fall? We rarely come in the inlet driving upstairs after that). Hopefully, we learn and remember. As the guy said on Hill Street Blues, "Let's all just be careful out there."

Rico2
08-24-2011, 12:47 PM
Mellow out everyone.

myflatline
08-24-2011, 12:58 PM
Not that it's the same, but I know in the Crystal River, it's 25MPH (not counting the no wakes) until you hit open water. The channel continues another few miles into the gulf, but no speed limit out there...

On the Crystal River, once you pass shell island there is a sign that says 25mph until 1500 feet ( i think) from land.

oseadpc
08-24-2011, 01:18 PM
Guys, there are numerous individuals on here that know this family. I dont think this is the time or place to question the RUMORS of how this happened. I posted earlier about an unrelated incident and I am upset at myself for that. Time will tell what happened, the authorities will get to the bottom of it, at that time when the facts are clear we can all become keyboard captains and reflect on where/what/who was at fault if anyone. As it stands it is a an awful and tragic event that we need to all take a second and reflect on how dangerous being on the water really is.

you shouldn't be, you set the record straight and I thank you for that.

It's what a on-line community is all about, sharing information with everyone.

oseadpc
08-24-2011, 01:20 PM
Look. Even the safest and most experienced operator can make a mistake. That's why they're called "accidents". The only positive that can come from a tragedy like this is reminding the rest of us how quickly it can happen to anyone. I already sent the link to the news story to my 18 year-old son. He's a better, more natural boat-operator than I am. When the going gets tight I'll often (but not always) give him the helm. But he's still an 18 year-old boy.

Restricted (or no) visibility from bow rise is scarey. My boat does it, to some extent. I presume most larger boats with big outboards do it. So if you're not driving from upstairs, you put in some tab, look three times to be sure you're clear, stand up as high as you can, push the throttles down with authority and hope no jet skier or something darts out from nowhere in the couple of seconds before you have a clear view, again. Pretty hard to live with if they do!

We're talking about a bunch of weight and horsepower, here. And sudden, unexpected forces can and sometimes do occur (remember the charter captain who was thrown out of his fly bridge and died coming into Jupiter last fall? We rarely come in the inlet driving upstairs after that). Hopefully, we learn and remember. As the guy said on Hill Street Blues, "Let's all just be careful out there."

x2 if one life is saved because someone reads this thread then the THT community has done it's job :thumbsup:

tucker99
08-25-2011, 07:20 AM
Up here in Maryland and don't know the guy but am sure sorry for the family. Sorry, having a problem with most responses. Seems to be a tricky area, why's he doing 40MPH with all those people on the boat? A poster recalls a head on death on a small boat because a guy coming out of a speed limit zone couldn't see because of bow rise. You gotta be kiddin' he saw them before he punched it. I spend more time watching other boats than anything else. Some of us don't use the sense God gave us. Again,real sorry for this guy's family but it appears to me he wasn't a responsible boater. Not in a glass house here and I've made my share of mistakes but I would never be doing: 40 MPH, 9-people in the boat? non-forgiving channel? Blaiming the boat mfgr, come-on guys.

I'm very sorry I offended anyone. But re-reading my post a day later I'don't regret a word said. "You gotta be kiddin" refered to how sensless that accident was. Sorry, not buying the bow rose and he couldn't see the boat. They're aren't any trees out there. A vigilant skipper would have realized the potential for a collision and proceeded with caution.

A very terrible accident but everyone should learn from this. 9-people on a 39' CC boat; where'd everybody sit? And, haulin' ass in a tough channel. Just have to ask anyone reading this thread: Would have it occured to you to ask the skipper to slow down? Especially if you had family on the boat?

Why is it that a lot of guys in these hot boats gotta prove to the world that they got sack?
Sorry again, maybe bad tast, but this accident and the one mentioned about the Checkmate being T-boned could have been easily avoidable. Ok...let me have it

Rico2
08-25-2011, 07:29 AM
Soap box placed squarely on top of a pine box.

SoulDeepDan
08-25-2011, 08:50 AM
On the Crystal River, once you pass shell island there is a sign that says 25mph until 1500 feet ( i think) from land.

It is something like that, not sure about the Homosassa though, I stay away from that river mostly because of Hell's gate. (narrow and the markers move around)

Someone knocked down a marker in Crystal River a month or so ago and something like 5-6 boats hit it. The last boat that hit it was an FWC boat so they finally decided to tie a marker to what was left of it. ;? Both of these rivers need some serious attention...

Very sorry for the loss of a good family man :(

seabob4
08-25-2011, 09:27 AM
On the Crystal River, once you pass shell island there is a sign that says 25mph until 1500 feet ( i think) from land.

I was told about that sign, or that rule, and basically it applies to returning...but I've never seen that "sign"...

mike carrigan
08-25-2011, 09:32 AM
I'm very sorry I offended anyone. But re-reading my post a day later I'don't regret a word said. "You gotta be kiddin" refered to how sensless that accident was. Sorry, not buying the bow rose and he couldn't see the boat. They're aren't any trees out there. A vigilant skipper would have realized the potential for a collision and proceeded with caution.

A very terrible accident but everyone should learn from this. 9-people on a 39' CC boat; where'd everybody sit? And, haulin' ass in a tough channel. Just have to ask anyone reading this thread: Would have it occured to you to ask the skipper to slow down? Especially if you had family on the boat?

Why is it that a lot of guys in these hot boats gotta prove to the world that they got sack?
Sorry again, maybe bad tast, but this accident and the one mentioned about the Checkmate being T-boned could have been easily avoidable. Ok...let me have it

Well, this time I agree with something you said.
"Bad taste" on your part is, I think, appropriate.

thumperlove
08-25-2011, 09:40 AM
my issue is why are we speculating about fault when we dont know? Yes if 1 life is saved then its a good thing but what are we warning this 1 person about on this thread? We dont know! In this case (i am at fault too) lets just let it all develop and we can discuss in another thread fault, risk, and how it can be avoided.

Ranger88
08-25-2011, 05:26 PM
Someone knocked down a marker in Crystal River a month or so ago and something like 5-6 boats hit it. The last boat that hit it was an FWC boat so they finally decided to tie a marker to what was left of it. ;? Both of these rivers need some serious attention...

Maybe the CG should do a safety inspection of their own sh!t.

eggsuckindog
08-25-2011, 07:49 PM
OK I haven't posted on this thread yet - BUT for those that have never been in that river - STFU. I have run boats on the WC for 30+ years and been in the business - the place is a legend for shearing lower units 10 miles offshore even.

So you haven't a clue - I don't even want to go there and you shouldn't either

I will also give a scenario of what probably happened - with all the scallop boats somebody dropped off plane in the channel and he had no option - but to go outside the channel or run over him - yes just a couple idiots this time of year, been there done that.

Next - there are tons of oyster bars just under the surface as well as rocks, rocks were mentioned but I don't think they knocked the motors out of alignment - if as he tried to correct and get back in the channel and hit an oyster bar somewhat broadside - the boat would roll over very easily.

If you have ever been there you could understand - this a big boat and if hitting a hard rock oyster bar at 12" in a broadside postion - the boat would roll over. Its was easy for me to understand since I been there - and ya I missed the goofy turn up river and smashed the giant rock with my 23 SeaCraft years ago - no damage, not sure how.

So stop with all the speculation and innuendo from the guys in MD and VA or wherever - you haven't got a fricken clue what that place is like - and I have had it - I don't come here to make friends btw

Condolences to the family, sounded like a good guy and a credit to the community and will be missed

airduds
08-26-2011, 11:07 AM
There were five people riding up in the tower. He was going over 40 mph and turned too sharply. The boat didn't hit anything - no marks on the boat or lower units at all. I'd be willing to bet the hull blew out.

alacrity
08-26-2011, 11:08 AM
There were five people riding up in the tower. He was going over 40 mph and turned too sharply. The boat didn't hit anything. The hull blew out.

how do you know this?

airduds
08-26-2011, 11:17 AM
You're fast. I was editing to say "I'd be willing to bet..." because I don't really know the hull blew out. But I know some of the people that were on the boat.

alacrity
08-26-2011, 11:28 AM
You're fast. I was editing to say "I'd be willing to bet..." because I don't really know the hull blew out. But I know some of the people that were on the boat.

respectfully, then you should you not make affirmative statements that indicate you knew it blew out for sure if you do not know it for sure, regardless of whether you know people that were on board.

airduds
08-26-2011, 11:41 AM
You're right. That's the reason I edited. I said you were fast because it was only up a couple of minutes before I edited.

oseadpc
08-26-2011, 11:47 AM
There were five people riding up in the tower. He was going over 40 mph and turned too sharply. The boat didn't hit anything - no marks on the boat or lower units at all. I'd be willing to bet the hull blew out.

Would five people up in the tower affect the center of gravity?

thumperlove
08-26-2011, 11:53 AM
airbuds then do your friends a favor and dont post anything else. This is going to play out. I am sorry you know some of the injured or even the man that passed. Dont mind these idiots that are posting about a man, boat, inlet, and area that they know nothing about. Sorry again for your friends. In the grand scheme of things THT is irrelevant and is less the Hull Truth and more ads and speculation.

Ft Myers Ken
08-26-2011, 12:06 PM
Would five people up in the tower affect the center of gravity?

Yes. Certainly.

oseadpc
08-26-2011, 12:09 PM
airbuds then do your friends a favor and dont post anything else. This is going to play out. I am sorry you know some of the injured or even the man that passed. Dont mind these idiots that are posting about a man, boat, inlet, and area that they know nothing about. Sorry again for your friends. In the grand scheme of things THT is irrelevant and is less the Hull Truth and more ads and speculation.

Thumper - Why are you constantly trying to stifle the conversation on this thread? I hate to say it but you seem he*l bent on suppressing information or theories on what happened and it kind of comes off that you are trying to cover something up.

This is a public forum the last time I checked, what's the deal ;?

airduds
08-26-2011, 12:10 PM
Thumper - Why are you constantly trying to stifle the conversation on this thread? I hate to say it but you seem he*l bent on suppressing information or theories on what happened and it kind of comes off that you are trying to cover something up.

This is a public forum the last time I checked, what's the deal ;?
I actually agree with him and regret posting. Just got tired of the misinformation.

oseadpc
08-26-2011, 12:21 PM
I actually agree with him and regret posting. Just got tired of the misinformation.

that's a pity cause your first hand knowledge has helped shed light on this terrible tragedy and corrected a lot of the misinformation out there.

Rod27
08-26-2011, 03:47 PM
this was a terrible tragedy and my condolences to the family. People need to stop criticizing posts with a quote unless you plan on editing the quote after the poster edits his. You arent helping anyone, especially the people emotionally and physically hurt, by playing internet cop.

robarden
08-27-2011, 11:51 AM
First of all my condolences to the family, and all others involved in this unfortunate accident.

For several years we lived in Riverhaven development on the Homosassa river, and routinely traversed the river with a 30' - 10' beam fish/cruiser on our way either out into the gulf fishing, or off to a cruise somewhere. The Homosassa river is both beautiful, and treacherous. Early on I had a couple of lower unit smacks learning to respect the markers, and rocks around them.

We normally ran at about 25 mph, other than in no wake zones, as that was cruise speed for our boat, and I never took my eyes off of the river, markers, or the boats around us until we cleared shell island at the mouth of the river. The six miles of markers out to marker 2 were easier, but still required close attention. One of the most dangerous things that could happen to you was a boat in front of you unexpectedly, and quickly coming down off plane. Wise folks did not follow closely!

My guess from what I have read in this post, and from prior personal experience with the Homosassa is that this may have happened to Mr. Phillips. He probably had nowhere to go but around, and that was a lousy choice that may have led to this accident.

One other point. Running the Homosassa river at 25 mph was more than enough to get my undivided attention, but 40+ mph would have engendered sheer terror.

Just my humble opinion on a tragic situation,

God bless his family, and friends.

Rob

thumperlove
08-27-2011, 12:22 PM
The deal is I wouldn't want my daughter or family reading something on here that was WRONG but implicating me in my death or the injuries of others. This is a tragedy and only needs to remain that until we find out what happened. I don't know this man, his dealership nor do I have anything to do with Contender. Simply put, rumors are still painful to read even if they are false.

But I will leave it alone, it's awful and scares the shut out of me. We run blind at night, solely by electronics and we all know what kind of debris is out there. Sorry for the loss!

seabob4
08-27-2011, 12:23 PM
Um, Rob, Shell Island is at the mouth of the Crystal River...

robarden
08-27-2011, 01:33 PM
Ouch! Got my rivers mixed up. Later on we boated out of the CR too, which is a much easier river to deal with. I was thinking of the island across from the Crows Nest at the mouth of the Homosassa.

Rob

DocStressor
08-27-2011, 01:37 PM
That's also Shell Island.

The locals either didn't used to have a lot of imagination or else they never talked much with the folks 10 miles up the coast.:)

robarden
08-27-2011, 01:59 PM
Thanks Doc. I thought is was also Shell Island, and probably a lot longer named than the one in CR.
But it's been many years since my Homosassa boating days, and memory plays tricks.

Rob

Seacat FL
08-27-2011, 02:03 PM
I thought all florida water ways had speed limits like 25 at night 30 daytime
I certainly haven't boated every where in florida but it seams to be the normal in every place I have been

That is not correct. There is no speed limit on most of the ICW in Brevard County. Its not a problem here because the Induan River Lagoon (ICW) here is large and open and there are relatively few boats compared to South Florida.

THROWINWOOD
08-28-2011, 07:08 AM
Thoughts and prayers to family and friends .

utopia
08-28-2011, 09:12 AM
I have purchased well over $1,000,000 worth of vehicles from Rob, most came from Eagle and a few from Phillips in Leesburg. To say that they had integrity issues is a completely untrue. Like Mike said, it is just my default place for purchasing GMCs. I seldom even bother calling another dealership to compare pricing, I just call up Russ or Joe and tell them what I am looking for and they make it happen. Please sir, think before you speak of something you know nothing about.
With all do respect sir... I do know exactly what I am taliking about or else it would not have been said.

docters oarders
09-27-2011, 10:09 AM
Does anyone know if the rest of the people ended up being OK ? the outcome of the investigation FWC did ? Did they change any channel markers?

Patton222
09-27-2011, 10:12 AM
So without reading every post on here, what happend exactly?

thumperlove
09-27-2011, 10:28 AM
Patton...your going to have to read at least the first few pages. Its an awful accident. I am not going to come on here and summarize out of concern for getting something wrong and being blasted for it.

docters oarders
09-27-2011, 10:54 AM
Sad story and a lot of speculation . I was just wondering if the family and people on the boat made it home yet and what the final outcome of the investigation was

tomfl
09-27-2011, 11:28 AM
Shame for all involved.

Shows you just how quickly things can go bad, real bad.

Everyone should run their boat with one thing on their mind first: Safety. Safety. Safety.

Everything after that is icing on the cake.

Condolences to the family.

-T

thefishjuice
09-27-2011, 11:46 AM
Everyone likes to think it cant happen to them because they are so safe on the water , yadda yadda. Accidents happen and we cant control it regardless of what you think. People died have some respect. Attacking a mans business reputation after he is gone is just disgusting

First Light
10-18-2011, 12:11 PM
Any update on this tragedy?

renegade15
10-18-2011, 05:13 PM
This is the initial accident report from FWC from the week wrap-up, but I can't seem to find the final report...really sad, we were just the the week before scalloping.

Lieutenant John Jones, Investigator Larry Ayers and Officer Darral Thomason
responded to a single vessel boating accident with one fatality in the Homosassa River.
The preliminary investigation indicates the 39- foot Contender vessel capsized while
making an evasive maneuver to stay in the channel. All ten occupants were ejected.
The operator was killed and several occupants received injuries. The investigation is
pending.

jeremyj
10-18-2011, 06:21 PM
Attorneys are involved so everyone is being very tight lipped...

Tar Heel Gone Duck
10-18-2011, 09:38 PM
Condolences from the Pacific Northwest. If any good can come from a serious crash report, it's that others may learn. We have little patience for those who cast stones in such situations, but anything that can shed accurate light on what actually happened, or even could have happened, may save the life/injury of another.If this gentleman's untimely passing can have any meaning-- let others avoid the same outcome. Any right minded person would want that. Modern power boats especially allow us to travel at very fast speeds, unrestrained, and even in the best conditions at speed, we only know half of what is going on around us.

THT would do everyone a huge favor if it logged factually accurate accounts of boating accident is a single forum or thread without any commentary, so periodically we ca all read them. Unfortunately, what truly happened often is jaded by lawsuits, but nonethelss, to the extent there are official reports, it would be helpful to have a periodic detailed narratives of the official cause from unbiased sources..

oseadpc
10-19-2011, 07:08 AM
This is the initial accident report from FWC from the week wrap-up, but I can't seem to find the final report...really sad, we were just the the week before scalloping.

Lieutenant John Jones, Investigator Larry Ayers and Officer Darral Thomason
responded to a single vessel boating accident with one fatality in the Homosassa River.
The preliminary investigation indicates the 39- foot Contender vessel capsized while
making an evasive maneuver to stay in the channel. All ten occupants were ejected.
The operator was killed and several occupants received injuries. The investigation is
pending.

So does this evualation lend credibility to my theory of a high speed step blow out?

Also someone on another post stated they hit rocks which would cause the boat to flip... can we throw the B.S. flag on that theory since office Thomason didn't mention that in his report? I would think there would be ovious and catestrophic damage to the LU's if rocks were impacted.

id-10-t
10-19-2011, 07:20 AM
So does this evualation lend credibility to my theory of a high speed step blow out?

Also someone on another post stated they hit rocks which would cause the boat to flip... can we throw the B.S. flag on that theory since office Thomason didn't mention that in his report? I would think there would be ovious and catestrophic damage to the LU's if rocks were impacted.

no damage on the motors or hull That I could see showing and impact, from the accident pictures and the other pictures that came about a few weeks after sitting in the yard. If it hit anything it was sand not rocks, although I could be wrong the bottom of the seahunter drop video looked untouched also .

oseadpc
10-19-2011, 07:37 AM
can you post links to the pics you are referring to? Also is there a way to get a copy of the full accident report from FWC?

id-10-t
10-19-2011, 07:47 AM
These pictures were on a iphone of a friend, I am not in possession of them . he was involved in the recovery
I met him in Andros a few months ago on base at a beach bar, nice guy

tucker99
10-19-2011, 08:02 AM
[QUOTE=oseadpc;4098541]So does this evualation lend credibility to my theory of a high speed step blow out?

Exactly what is a high speed step blow out? Can it happen to any boat? And how can I be sure it never happens to me? I've only heard it used on this forum.

id-10-t
10-19-2011, 08:25 AM
http://video.tbo.com/v/44007720/homosassa-boat-accident-remains-under-investigation.htm

never driven a stepped hull, but I believe with the boat it rides on top of the water as designed, the air under the hull in a sharp turn could make the boat do a 180. someone on THT has been in a blow out in turn if I remember correctly

renegade15
10-19-2011, 08:29 AM
I believe the final report still has not been released, especially if there is some sort of litigation going on...
This photo was posted on the Bay News 9 website, the local Tampa Bay news channel.

oseadpc
10-19-2011, 09:01 AM
http://video.tbo.com/v/44007720/homosassa-boat-accident-remains-under-investigation.htm

never driven a stepped hull, but I believe with the boat it rides on top of the water as designed, the air under the hull in a sharp turn could make the boat do a 180. someone on THT has been in a blow out in turn if I remember correctly

It supposedly happened on a Stepped Contender during a demo ride in Miami, this was from forum member Thumperlove on a earlier page of this thread.

From my limited knowledge this could be a extreme case of stepped hull blow out since the boat actually flipped over vs. the backend just sliding out and doing a 180 or some other degree of rotation.

maybe a hull designer can give us a more technical explanation?

thumperlove
10-19-2011, 09:05 AM
They will not post any details on this and I think there is still litigation pending. If I remember Contender posted in response to mine that the two were unrelated.

crparmelee
10-19-2011, 09:44 AM
[quote=oseadpc;4098541]So does this evualation lend credibility to my theory of a high speed step blow out?

Exactly what is a high speed step blow out? Can it happen to any boat? And how can I be sure it never happens to me? I've only heard it used on this forum.

Whether it had anything to do with this incident or not - I would like to know that too. I knew a guy who ran an overpowered little speedboat on the Tennessee River years ago and he flipped it over because he tried to make a turn with the boat barely in the water and it slid sideways then dug-in and flipped. Is that a blowout? Can that happen in a big deep-vee boat like a Contender?

tucker99
10-19-2011, 09:54 AM
Ok, what is a stepped hull for and why to they put them on fishing boats?

thumperlove
10-19-2011, 09:57 AM
tucker...there is a ton of info if you search THT. A short response is increased efficiency. As far as improved ride that answer is subjective. Depends on who you ask.

id-10-t
10-19-2011, 10:14 AM
Ok, what is a stepped hull for and why to they put them on fishing boats?

It makes the hull come out of the water and ride on top so to speak. Compared to a standard mono that has the keel still in the water a good bit , unless it has a pad.
Look at the pictures of homesites boat running you can see not much of the boat is in the water past the hulls optimum running speed. The faster they go the more air under it from the step.
This was just my take on a stepped hull, a marine engineer I am not

Corbin_K
10-19-2011, 10:41 AM
For what it is worth, I have seen the boat at Riverhaven Marina in Homosassa and talked to someone that was on the boat when the accident occured. The boat has no indication of hitting rocks (lower units are not damaged). The person who was in the accident (who I will not name) stated that the boat did not hit anything but acted strangely in the turn and rolled over very suddenly. This person said that there were 3 teenage girls in the tower at the time of the accident and did not attribute that as a factor to the boat rolling over.

thumperlove
10-19-2011, 10:46 AM
can i ask the contender gurus a question? Was there a 39' Contender without steps first or was this hull developed from the start as a stepped hull?

First Light
10-19-2011, 10:59 AM
For what it is worth, I have seen the boat at Riverhaven Marina in Homosassa and talked to someone that was on the boat when the accident occured. . . . . . . . . . etc.

Very interesting. Thanks for that information. :thumbsup:

oseadpc
10-19-2011, 11:28 AM
For what it is worth, I have seen the boat at Riverhaven Marina in Homosassa and talked to someone that was on the boat when the accident occured. The boat has no indication of hitting rocks (lower units are not damaged). The person who was in the accident (who I will not name) stated that the boat did not hit anything but acted strangely in the turn and rolled over very suddenly. This person said that there were 3 teenage girls in the tower at the time of the accident and did not attribute that as a factor to the boat rolling over.

very imformative, thank you.

id-10-t
10-19-2011, 12:04 PM
It supposedly happened on a Stepped Contender during a demo ride in Miami, this was from forum member Thumperlove on a earlier page of this thread.

From my limited knowledge this could be a extreme case of stepped hull blow out since the boat actually flipped over vs. the backend just sliding out and doing a 180 or some other degree of rotation.

maybe a hull designer can give us a more technical explanation?

contender will deny it. like they always have saying it never happened .

Highflier
10-19-2011, 12:20 PM
there were 3 teenage girls in the tower at the time of the accident and did not attribute that as a factor to the boat rolling over.

Three teen girls at about 80-85lbs ea up in a tower would contribute to a high tipping load.
Thats 250lbs up high during an evasive maneuver, the balance moment was not normal.

My company regularly does elevated work in man lifts, there is a tipping fulcrum we have to contend with regularly.

Boats, stepped hull or not, cannot escape physics.

First Light
10-19-2011, 12:36 PM
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . This was just my take on a stepped hull, a marine engineer I am not . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . contender will deny it. like they always have saying it never happened.

In addition to having no clue about what you are talking about, it is also obvious that you are posting because you have an axe to grind against Contender, and your caustic comments belong in the Bilge Forum, not in a Forum where people were injured and a life was lost. :joincc:

id-10-t
10-19-2011, 01:11 PM
In addition to having no clue about what you are talking about, it is also obvious that you are posting because you have an axe to grind against Contender, and your caustic comments belong in the Bilge Forum, not in a Forum where people were injured and a life was lost. :joincc:

Care to enlighten me on a stepped hull.
Caustic comments were just from earlier posts
Axe to grind?

id-10-t
10-19-2011, 01:23 PM
read post 32 and 37 caustic remarks that repeated. then read C reply on post 55 which should have been his first post

justasplash
12-09-2011, 05:55 AM
Report in today's local mullet wrapper shows high alcohol level and high speed turn... fatal combination!

http://http://www.chronicleonline.com/content/report-alcohol-speed-contributed-fatal-accident

JAGSARE1
12-09-2011, 06:04 AM
Bad link?

I see it, HTTP is added twice.

Greg_M
12-09-2011, 06:07 AM
Too many Https

http://www.chronicleonline.com/content/report-alcohol-speed-contributed-fatal-accident

JAGSARE1
12-09-2011, 06:08 AM
They mention the alcohol level "18 hours after the crash". The alcohol level they measured was the same as during the crash because the deceased body was not metabolizing the alcohol so 8 hours or 18 hours, doesn't matter.

Snapper Head
12-09-2011, 06:18 AM
The server is down, link not working.

What was the blood alcohol level?


Big Al

justasplash
12-09-2011, 06:21 AM
blood alcohol level was 0.258
said he tried to make a 120 degree turn @ 60 mph
sorry about the link!

Snapper Head
12-09-2011, 06:22 AM
blood alcohol level was 0.258
said he tried to make a 120 degree turn @ 60 mph
sorry about the link!

Their site is down.

Thanks for the info.


Big Al

Captain Willie
12-09-2011, 06:28 AM
blood alcohol level was 0.258
said he tried to make a 120 degree turn @ 60 mph
sorry about the link!

That is extremely high. How was he able to even get to the helm that drunk?

oseadpc
12-09-2011, 08:46 AM
So did the high speed and 120 degree term cause the boat to roll over? High speed step blow out or would any boat roll in this situation?

Another poster mentioned the boat hit rocks I'm guessing this has been debunked?

Any marine engineers on here that can offer a opinion?

still a lot of unanswered questions....

tucker99
12-09-2011, 10:10 AM
Blood alcohol .258 answeres most questions. What's considered DUI in Florida .08 or something close? Kids on the boat and this guy's smashed? Let's here all that stuff again about how rightous this guy was.

tokinred
12-09-2011, 10:23 AM
That is extremely high. How was he able to even get to the helm that drunk?

Watched many a DUI video in my career, some people perform flawlessly on the tests and then blow 2-4 times the limit. I can hardly walk at .16

Captain Willie
12-09-2011, 10:27 AM
Watched many a DUI video in my career, some people perform flawlessly on the tests and then blow 2-4 times the limit. I can hardly walk at .16

Yeah--unfortunatley, I know. I have seen a few cases in my career past .30 that managed to get behind the wheel and kill somebody.

Horrible. Most people would have passed out. Too bad he didn't before he got behind the helm.

jets
12-09-2011, 10:34 AM
Wow. Let this be a lesson to all of us.

Captain Willie
12-09-2011, 10:53 AM
Wow. Let this be a lesson to all of us.

:thumbsup:

This kind of stuff cured me of drinking while boating. Too much to lose. (now I don't drink at all)

I don't object to others drinking moderately as passengers--but--me as the Captain--no way.

Saw way to many drunk boaters at the ramp on Saturday afternoons at Sand Sprit Park in Stuart doing crazy things.

Snapper Head
12-09-2011, 11:06 AM
I'm still trying to wrap my small brain around that BAC. That is extremely high. Any chance the test on a corpse could be faulty?


Big Al

Software
12-09-2011, 11:11 AM
Alcoholics can sail right to that number on a daily basis. My grandpa hits the martini, that is a quick smash.

triumphrick
12-09-2011, 11:22 AM
Alcoholics can sail right to that number on a daily basis. My grandpa hits the martini, that is a quick smash.

;?

oseadpc
12-09-2011, 11:30 AM
Let's here all that stuff again about how rightous this guy was.

notice how all the earlier thread cheerleaders have disappeared have from this thread? I can almost hear the crickets.

tucker99
12-09-2011, 11:44 AM
Yup, the whole thread is a real interesting read. I was wondering what some of these guys were thinking. It's being litigated? Ya, think?

ReformedLandlubber
12-09-2011, 12:18 PM
Luckily the guy only killed himself. This could have ended up much much worse. I hope those injured have recovered.

How "normal" is it to ride in the tower of a boat like this going 60mph? I don't know about safe, but I know it would scare the hell out of me.

tucker99
12-09-2011, 12:24 PM
They were kids in the tower; they don't know any better. The moron running the boat said it was ok.

LWLoadie
12-09-2011, 12:40 PM
39 foot boat, three 350hp motors and drunk as a skunk doing 60 mph...kind of sums up the narcissistic driver of the vessel. I certainly hope he had plenty of insurance and the passengers are ok.

tokinred
12-09-2011, 12:44 PM
Having done countless dumb things in my life, I will point no fingers. My guardian angel has been working overtime since I was 13. It is a shame on every level. Period. Prayers for his family and those injured and still grieving.

tucker99
12-09-2011, 01:09 PM
Having done countless dumb things in my life, I will point no fingers. My guardian angel has been working overtime since I was 13. It is a shame on every level. Period. Prayers for his family and those injured and still grieving.

Right there with you tok, I often wonder how I'm still around. BUT, I can't remember ever putting somone else in harms way because of my stupidity let alone teenagers. That's what I don't get. Lot of guys were pretty insistant about this guy being a pillar of the community and well respected. And...a real family man. Guy had a bunch of people onboard and running the boat like a wild man. Doesn't make sense... I really feel for his family. Looks like families of the passengers are out for blood.

Capttater
12-09-2011, 01:35 PM
Phillips was a well-known philanthropist and all-around good guy in the community he has operated the dealership in for more than two decades. His death was received with shock and
disbelief.

ReformedLandlubber
12-09-2011, 01:50 PM
Right there with you tok, I often wonder how I'm still around. BUT, I can't remember ever putting somone else in harms way because of my stupidity let alone teenagers. That's what I don't get. Lot of guys were pretty insistant about this guy being a pillar of the community and well respected. And...a real family man. Guy had a bunch of people onboard and running the boat like a wild man. Doesn't make sense... I really feel for his family. Looks like families of the passengers are out for blood.
Amen to that.

The guy may have been a great guy. Great guy or complete scumbag, he made some stupid decisions the day he died. I don't think there's anything wrong with calling a spade a spade in this case. He screwed up royally and it cost him his life. We should all remember that the next time we're faced with the situations where we need to make decisions that could lead to a disaster like this. I know I'm lucky that my combination of too much booze and driving only resulted in property damage. Dumbest day of my life.

floridarob
12-09-2011, 02:43 PM
Most boating accidents are preventable, not all, but most. There is always that fluke wave, or unseen submerged piling, etc.....this is a sad case where poor judgement caused, not only his death, but a list of people who now have life long, debilitating injuries due to that poor judgement. It doesn't really matter whether the boat was a center console with triple 350's or a dinghy....this was poor judgement, imo. The sea is not forgiving, boating is a fun practice that can become very dangerous very quickly if you do not respect the conditions surrounding you....Knowing these waters, there are tight turns to be made in many places, if you are juiced up, your reactions and reaction times are compromised.

conehead39
12-09-2011, 03:31 PM
Good reply FL Rob.

I don't know what its going to take to stop it.

Read this article. apparently nothing is new in FL..

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2010-12-29/news/os-boating-fatalities-trends-20101227_1_boating-accidents-life-jackets-wildlife-conservation-commission

26 years ago I was a USCG 100 ton Capt, Airline Pilot,and USAF Reserve pilot.
I enrolled my 10 and 12 year old son's in a USCG Res Boating safety course at Coral Shores High School at night. The instructor said "kids don't generally do well in this class".
I said I will be attending with them. I will make sure they learn boating safety.
Well,my son's kicked ALL the adults ASS in the final exam with two 100% scores on the final exam.
Oldest son went on to get his 100 ton at age 19. he has been a charter boat Capt since age 24.

You can take boating lightly or with a grain of salt.IT IS YOUR DECISION.
It is not just you,but the passengers on board that rely on you.
There is not a week that goes by that we do not mention boating.
Just think about it.

Mr. Demeanor
12-09-2011, 04:31 PM
I am a victim of my own lack of self preservation (ie. stupidity). I am legall blind in my right eye from a motorcycle crash that was my fault. Having said that, I was in the middle of nowhere endangering only myself (turely) and stone sober. Maybe a little high on adrenaline.
I remember some anti-step hull discussion after this crash. Maybe we shouldnt jump to conclusions so fast.

seabob4
12-09-2011, 04:32 PM
Well, having worked in the fine community of Homosassa for a few years, knowing the habits of the locals, Phillips BAC doesn't surprise me.

Homosassa and CR are little redneck towns, where the established businessmen do as they please. Just like any other redneck town in Alabama, upstate NY, downstate IL, or wherever. He got chitfaced and tried to show everyone on board what his badass Contender could do...

Stupid ass SOB...

I may have been one to hold back my judgements, but now I speak my mind. Know several former (and current) PL executives that did the 3, maybe 4 martini lunch everyday, and since many bought their vehicles from Eagle Buick/GMC, they probably had lunch a time or two with the deceased...

That's just the truth, like it or not...

Mr. Demeanor
12-09-2011, 04:43 PM
Im interested to here if Mike now feels the same way about the crash (that is was a boat design related crash). He mentioned the deceased was a friend or acquaintance.

It seems you crash a traditional hull and the speculation of the cause can go in any direction but crash a stepped boat and many automatically blame the boats design.

mike carrigan
12-09-2011, 04:52 PM
Im interested to here if Mike now feels the same way about the crash (that is was a boat design related crash). He mentioned the deceased was a friend or acquaintance.

It seems you crash a traditional hull and the speculation of the cause can go in any direction but crash a stepped boat and many automatically blame the boats design.

I wouldn't comment as to a cause.
I dont know any more than anyone else.
I will say that I knew Rod, and like many of us at Pro-Line were very loyal customers because we were treated right.
His loss was the loss of a friend, and a loss to the community.
The Citris county newspaper reported no fault as to the hull as, I understand it, the investigation concluded.
There's been plenty of speculation, however, as I understand it, the hull was not found in any fault.
As I understand it, the investigation is concluded.

seabob4
12-09-2011, 05:16 PM
Mike,
C'mon, get real. We all know who Rob Phillips' Dad was, Phillips Chevy over in Leesburg, somehow Rob got that dealership on his own hard work...nope, Daddy's little legacy. I know the owner of the Gettel dealership empire from my days in Bradenton, the sorry ass POS runs the whole shebang because of his Dad's hard work, and the Toyota dealership in Bradenton was given to Jim, sort of like a Christmas present. That was a few years ago, in another life...

The man had a BAC of .25. Period. With friends and family aboard a very fast (note, I don't say high performance) boat. He chose to act foolishly, partly, I would imagine because of ego, and partly I would imagine because he was wasted. He paid the consequence of said foolishness, injured several people "dear" to him, and tarnished the family name and the business community up there.

That's the deal...

mike carrigan
12-09-2011, 05:38 PM
Mike,
C'mon, get real. We all know who Rob Phillips' Dad was, Phillips Chevy over in Leesburg, somehow Rob got that dealership on his own hard work...nope, Daddy's little legacy. I know the owner of the Gettel dealership empire from my days in Bradenton, the sorry ass POS runs the whole shebang because of his Dad's hard work, and the Toyota dealership in Bradenton was given to Jim, sort of like a Christmas present. That was a few years ago, in another life...

The man had a BAC of .25. Period. With friends and family aboard a very fast (note, I don't say high performance) boat. He chose to act foolishly, partly, I would imagine because of ego, and partly I would imagine because he was wasted. He paid the consequence of said foolishness, injured several people "dear" to him, and tarnished the family name and the business community up there.

That's the deal...

Bob,
As a matter of fact, I'm also aquainted with Gettel, from Michigan, long before Florida.
Bob, you and I are just not going to agree on this subject.
As it was found, reported I think, a 120 degree turn at about 60 MPH. Well, that's a whole lot of turn, at no small amount of speed.
The question was, as I viewed the question, was it a hull issue.
The findings were, to my understanding, that no, it was not.

seabob4
12-09-2011, 06:09 PM
Bob,
As a matter of fact, I'm also aquainted with Gettel, from Michigan, long before Florida.
Bob, you and I are just not going to agree on this subject.
As it was found, reported I think, a 120 degree turn at about 60 MPH. Well, that's a whole lot of turn, at no small amount of speed.
The question was, as I viewed the question, was it a hull issue.
The findings were, to my understanding, that no, it was not.

Well then, I guess we call this "operator error", and call it a day?

I'm just glad it was the guy who was wasted that paid the price...

jets
12-09-2011, 06:12 PM
Bob,
As a matter of fact, I'm also aquainted with Gettel, from Michigan, long before Florida.
Bob, you and I are just not going to agree on this subject.
As it was found, reported I think, a 120 degree turn at about 60 MPH. Well, that's a whole lot of turn, at no small amount of speed.
The question was, as I viewed the question, was it a hull issue.
The findings were, to my understanding, that no, it was not.


Nope, did not appear to be a hull issue.

It had everything to do with trying to make an 120 degree turn doing 60mph in a fishing boat in the middle of scallop season, drunk as a skunk.

seabob4
12-09-2011, 06:14 PM
Nope, did not appear to be a hull issue.

It had everything to do with trying to make an 120 degree turn doing 60mph in a fishing boat in the middle of scallop season, drunk as a skunk.

Pretty much. And I think it's what most of us surmised from the beginning...

mike carrigan
12-09-2011, 06:27 PM
Pretty much. And I think it's what most of us surmised from the beginning...

I dont guess I want to challange opinions.
In my case, Misty River, the Oar House, and Rocks, in Crystal River, I'm guilty as mortal sin.
Carry that down to the Keys, yeah, me too.
Carry it over to Melbourne, well, guilty as charged.
I dont profess to being a choir boy.
My fav-or-ite motels are those that after a pretty good night, I can crawl back to my room on my hands and knees.
It's just not to the point.

seabob4
12-09-2011, 06:36 PM
Mike,
None of us profess to being a "choir boy". But what happened was not only apparently evident, it has also been corroborated by the findings of both the FWC and the Citrus County Sheriff's Department.

What part of "These are the facts, maam" don't you get?

mike carrigan
12-09-2011, 07:19 PM
Mike,
None of us profess to being a "choir boy". But what happened was not only apparently evident, it has also been corroborated by the findings of both the FWC and the Citrus County Sheriff's Department.

What part of "These are the facts, maam" don't you get?

Bob,
My mother loved all of us, and we all had equal opportunities.
My brother became a lawyer.
I, to my mothers dismay, followed this "really rather silly, boat kind of thing".

Bob, my dear mother was correct,

I have no doubt, none at all, in three, maybe five years or so, what is right, or wrong, opinions right, or wrong, will be kinda established.
The initial findings?
Well, give it a few years, at least.
If my brother is involved, he's salivating at this moment.

Mr. Demeanor
12-09-2011, 09:07 PM
I wouldn't comment as to a cause.
I dont know any more than anyone else.
I will say that I knew Rod, and like many of us at Pro-Line were very loyal customers because we were treated right.
His loss was the loss of a friend, and a loss to the community.
The Citris county newspaper reported no fault as to the hull as, I understand it, the investigation concluded.
There's been plenty of speculation, however, as I understand it, the hull was not found in any fault.
As I understand it, the investigation is concluded.

From the go-fast thread that evolved into a discusion of hull design stability/safety.

That was very well said.
I lost a friend last Sunday in Homosassa.
Rolled it, his family aboard, he was the only fatality.
The fact that he was the only one killed, I guess, strange as it sounds, is good news?
Had lunch at the Hyatt some years ago with a friend who went over to the OMC test center in Stuart, was killed with the OMC driver as well.
Very experianced drivers.
I, like you, could go down the list, share names, and tragic experiances.
I make a big deal out of a safe hull, and I think I've earned the right.
Many disagree. However, as I said to Mr. D, just requires once, just once, to have a serious change of mind.
However, all of that said, I dont profess to being an expert on the subject.

mike carrigan
12-10-2011, 04:02 AM
From the go-fast thread that evolved into a discusion of hull design stability/safety.

Mr. D

My two posts that you've shown, I gather that your suggesting a contradiction?
If so, please clarify.

ovrrdrive
12-10-2011, 04:19 AM
It's surprising even on this forum the number of people that seem glad the guy is dead or feel that he deserved to die. I never bought a car at his dealership, never met the guy and honestly never heard his name before this thread but I still wish he had survived for his family. What he did was stupid and tempting fate but I'm sure his family misses him.

If I went out in my single engine 19' boat with a bal of .25 I would stand just as much chance at killing my family in a maneuver like that... In this situation the hull had nothing to do with it.

thumperlove
12-10-2011, 05:17 AM
So sad.

tucker99
12-10-2011, 05:33 AM
Nobody's glad he's dead and he certainly didn't deservie it. With a 12-page thread it's obvious everybody's looking for answers. It's not a hull problem or a boat issue. The guy had a problem and this is what happened because of it. Certainly feeling for his family around this time of year.

First Light
12-10-2011, 06:02 AM
Well then, I guess we call this "operator error", and call it a day?

I'm just glad it was the guy who was wasted that paid the price...

Well said, and ever so thankful that the kids nor anyone else was not seriously injured.

Software
12-10-2011, 06:08 AM
;?

Did you read the thread? His bac was like .25??? Ever known a alcoholic? ;?

Bucknuter
12-10-2011, 06:45 AM
Having done countless dumb things in my life, I will point no fingers. My guardian angel has been working overtime since I was 13. It is a shame on every level. Period. Prayers for his family and those injured and still grieving.


X2

GR1FFIN
12-10-2011, 07:02 AM
x2 tokinred said it well.

I've done dumb things. I've done risky things. Coulda killed myelf (and maybe others many, many times in my life when I was younger (fewer so the older I've gotten). I've been lucky. I guess many of you have never done anything wrong, risky or screwed up. The guy f-#4ked up. I feel badly for his family. I hope you criticizers never f-up.

tokinred
12-10-2011, 07:17 AM
I will just share one work related story that I think is applicable. I had a young lady and her father come to me on a DUI manslaughter case. I wouldn't take the case but did agree to provide free advice until they found another lawyer. These types of forums immediately went crazy with people calling for her head and using every name in the book. Did she F-up? Yes she did. Killed her best friend who was more wasted than the driver. I talked to the dad the day she killed herself. He was worried that all the online comments had her feeling hopeless. Please think about this when you post comments. This man's children or wife very well may be reading these posts, and some are damned hurtful. None of us are immune from making a mistake......not one single one of us.

lbud
12-10-2011, 08:36 AM
Rob and April are friends of mine. When I first read this I said Rob made a serious error in judgement. Nough said. Rob also was given nothing He earned the right to buy the dealership thru hard work.. Take your crass ignorant statements and put them where the sun don't shine..

oseadpc
12-10-2011, 09:07 AM
There are of course many contributing factors, my earlier posts were not to place 100% blame on the boat design. There are numerous contributing factors to this crash and sadly it cost one person his life and a lifetime of pain for his family.

Me personally, I'm having a really hard time grasping how this boat completely rolled over in this crash. Brand doesn't matter to me, from my limited understanding you can experience a step blow out on any boat with this design, not just Contender. hopefully this accident will raise awareness on how dangerous boating can be and other lives will be saved.

I'd really like to see someone with design/engineering experience come on here and explain what factors lead to a step blow out, how much speed and turning factor in etc. This is for my own sake of learning a little more then I already know :thumbsup: Also what causes a traditional deep V hull to completely roll in high speed, sharp turn situations.

rest in peace to the captain.

propbender24
12-10-2011, 09:16 AM
It is discomforting for me to read some of the negative comments towards the captain.

Something that hasn't been discussed is that if the hull hadn't flipped this tragedy would not have occured. I wasn't there and I am sure we will never know exactly what happened.

However, intoxicated or sober, in flat water I do not think I could get my boat to flip making a turn at 60 mph no matter how hard I tried. I have pushed it hard over the years

The hull and engines show no impact from hitting something and I believe it was posted that the gentleman "God bless his soul and Family" was an experienced boater and had owned multiple Contenders over the years. It is difficult for me not to suspect that he was operating this boat as he has normally done with others in the past; and the hull re-acted in an un-expected manner.

Certain hull designs are more likely to experience blow out and owners of these boats need to be educated on how to captain their vessel. For example what not to do and how to prevent this situation from happening. I am not recommending all boaters be required to take a class, but maybe it would be a good idea to have dealers and manufacturers teach the buyer how to drive the boat.

kerno
12-10-2011, 09:50 AM
A boat in a high speed turn is easy to roll. The laws of inertia say the boat wants to continue to go straight, so when turning, there are lot of sideways forces of the hull against the water and the water against the hull to cause it to change direction. At the same time, the hull also heels a lot, so you have a situation where the normal deadrise is no longer the balancing point for the hull in the water.

Instead, the portion of the V that is now about parallel to the water surface does not have much grip and all of the turning force has to be created by the props, skegs and most critically, the portion of the deadrise that is now about perpendicular to the water. As long as the water is smooth, everything works, but let the hull skip just a little and you suddenly find yourself in a tripping situation, much like when a sliding car hits a curb. In a turn, the center of gravity is usually higher than it is when the boat is running level, so it increases the chance of it making an axial roll over the area of keel which is applying the turning force. Here's why I think that is: The near vertical portion of the keel is only partially buried in the water and the water it is pushing against is acting like the curb does when a car slides sideways into it. When the boat skips, it momentarily looses some contact and when it comes down, the high side of the keel area suddenly has much more contact with the water. If there is enough contact, it interrupts the balance of forces that were letting it corner smoothly with the CG inside the turn from the keel and over it goes. It happens very quickly and usually cannot corrected.

The situation is made worse by the three girls in the tower adding additional weight above the center of gravity. I am not up on the differences in dynamics of a stepped vs straight hull in this situation, but I suspect it does not make as big a difference as the amount of deadrise and the height of the center of gravity being raised by multiple outboards (they do have a high CG), the mass of the tower and the total passenger weight.

The bottom line is that given enough speed going into a turn, you can flip about anything.

In this case, the guy made a mistake - and he, his family and all who are concerned paid a bigger price than the rest of us have.

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

mike carrigan
12-10-2011, 10:02 AM
Something that hasn't been discussed is that if the hull hadn't flipped this tragedy would not have occured. I wasn't there and I am sure we will never know exactly what happened.

However, intoxicated or sober, I do not think I could get my boat to flip making a turn at 60 mph no matter how hard I tried. Trust me, I have pushed it hard over the years

The hull and engines show no impact from hitting something and I believe it was posted that the gentleman "God bless his soul" was an experienced boater and had owned multiple Contenders over the years. It is difficult for me not to suspect that he was operating this boat as he has normally done with others in the past; and the hull re-acted in a different manner.

I believe certain hull designs are more likely to experience blow out and boaters need to be educated how to captain their vessel. For example what not to do and how to prevent this situation from happening. I am not insinuating all boaters be required to take a class, but maybe it would be a good idea to have dealers and manufacturers teach the buyer how to drive the boat.

That's actually a very good post.
My comments are not to be interpreted as to anything having to do with Rod, or this horrible accident. Please, allow that to be plainly said, and understood.
There are manufacturers that clearly state warnings posted at the helm of their product. In some cases, posted in red letters.
That is not just true of big, expensive go fast hulls.
I know of a Flats Boat that a clear warning is posted because the hull is totally flat, and does' not react well to sharp turns at speed.
The fact that someone wears a Rolex President, and can afford a 40' or so hull, trip and quad powered, does' not qualify that buyer to safely run the product at speed, manuver the product safely, which does' include tight turns.
The more exotic bottoms do, for a large part, require more knowledge, and more caution, in my opinion.
Some years back, a product that I was associated with, demanded the dealer teach the customer to run the product safely. Another, that I was also associated with, offered classes conducted by a very experianced, and well respected driver.
I have enough personal understanding of my own limitations, that when being involved with the sale of a large, fast hull, beyond what I felt was my expertise, I would then defer to a better driver than I to do the seatrial with the customer, and instruct the customer, and his involvement with the final delivery to the customer.
Many people do not understand that pushing maybe 40' of fiberglass thru the water, maybe fifteen thousand pounds depending on the hull, and power, maybe at eighty MPH or so, with all of it running perhaps on three to five feet of running surface, it does' require an understanding of the hull, and the safe operation of the hull.
Also, it should be understood that an accident can happen very fast. A very brief mistake can happen, an error in judgement, has happened, and very regretably, will happen in the future.
And, one can be cold, hard sober for a bad judgement call be made.

I repeat, my comments have nothing what so ever to do with Rod, or the occurance.
May he rest in peace, and the Good lords blessings to April and the children.

seabob4
12-10-2011, 10:11 AM
Well, I guess I cast the first stone, and I've sinned enough for 2 people.

Let me pose this scenario. Same family, but out for an afternoon of partying WHILE DRIVING. After leaving an establishment, with the same BAC, the same driver loses control, flips the vehicle, killing himself and injuring several others.

Would we be talking about that hypothetical accident in a similar fashion? I doubt it...

kerno
12-10-2011, 10:17 AM
No, Bob, I don't think we would. But the boating community is smaller than the driving community and we do seem to be more involved with each other. Likewise, we all hate to see damaged boats much more than damaged cars. It is more personal because we take boating personally as opposed to driving, since we can all remember our last boat trip, but the last car trip fades quickly in memory.

I may have more forgiving feelings here because I willingly "rode the tiger". I drove a blown gas hydro for several years, which means walking up and voluntarily looking death in the eye. Have I pushed the limits and/or walked home on my hands and knees? Oh, yeah. The difference is that I got away with it - so far.

triumphrick
12-10-2011, 10:21 AM
Alcoholics can sail right to that number on a daily basis. My grandpa hits the martini, that is a quick smash.

OK..all I am saying is this post didn't seem to register. What is a "quick smash" that your grandpa hits? and does that relate to a bal of .25?

Maybe it's a generational thing...I just didn't understand what you were trying to convey....

For someone who keeps a bal up near that number, I don't think a few martinis are gonna give him a quick smash. Actually, I don't think 'ol grandpa gets "smashed" much anymore. I'll bet the thrill is gone, and he just drinks to contain the shakes...

Yes, I know someone who is an alcoholic....

Software
12-10-2011, 10:23 AM
Reality check, he was intoxicated and should never have been behind the wheel. I will never go along with he made a mistake. He is damm lucky he didn't kill someone else's entire family let alone his own. How often do you need to hear something before you don't do it? Drinking and driving kills. EVERYONE KNOWS IT!

I didn't criticize him on this forum, but the people defending him should be the ones thinking twice!

That being said, I prayed for his soul and families well being after this terrible story surfaced.

Software
12-10-2011, 10:25 AM
OK..all I am saying is this post didn't seem to register. What is a "quick smash" that your grandpa hits? and does that relate to a bal of .25?

Maybe it's a generational thing...I just didn't understand what you were trying to convey....

For someone who keeps a bal up near that number, I don't think a few martinis are gonna give him a quick smash. Actually, I don't think 'ol grandpa gets "smashed" much anymore. I'll bet the thrill is gone, and he just drinks to contain the shakes...

Yes, I know someone who is an alcoholic....


No worries. I should have typed more clearly. A fast smash means have two martinis and you are rocked! They go down fast and hit very hard! He would drink them from 4-11 and the count would be near 10 at least. Many o drunks come home after work and do this every day. That's how a man can handle a bac of .25.

kerno
12-10-2011, 10:27 AM
Sadly, that is generally true until someone IS drunk and then they don't seem to know it anymore. Remorse does not bring the dead back or heal the injured, but you can bet that if he had it to do over again, it would be different.

Drinking and driving kills. EVERYONE KNOWS IT!

fireboat
12-10-2011, 10:35 AM
[quote=kerno;4206291]Sadly, that is generally true until someone IS drunk and then they don't seem to know it anymore.

Kerno, you are exactly right. Caution and logic goes out the window when you are toasted.
I would think that others on the boat would have stepped up and said something though it is hard sometimes to tell how intoxicated someone is besides issue of the inevitable arguement that will follow after telling a drunk that they are too drunk to drive.

prober
12-10-2011, 10:50 AM
It's sad that we have accepted alcoholism so completely that we usually just look the other way, until some tragedy occurs. Budweiser has done a fantastic job of marketing it's product.

As an alcoholic myself I can tell you that a tolerance that would allow you to walk and talk in a somewhat normal manner at .25 does not happen quickly. You have to drink hard for many years to get to that point, so why do we accept it? We even laugh about it the next day. Only when something like this happens do we wish someone would have said something. Well, here's your chance. We all know an alcoholic. Say something. You might save a life.

seabob4
12-10-2011, 10:57 AM
Kern, I wholeheartedly agree with you in respect to our little boating community. It hits home far more personally than the world of automobiles. I guess what is causing me to have some, how shall we say, negative thoughts about the situation is the BAC level, and the fact that family and friends were put in harms way due to the inability of one impaired person to make rational decisions based on said impairment.

You guys know I like my beer. But when on the water, I don't imbibe. Too many variables and conditions to allow it. Boats have no brakes. Weather can be uncertain. Seas can be unforgiving. Injuries can occur far from land. Mechanical failures can leave you stranded, and you can't get out and walk to a service station. Just too much chit to allow oneself to be under the influence. And, need I remind anyone, it is the Captain of the vessel's responsibility to ensure the safety of his passengers and crew...

Kern, you situation running drag boats is completely different than the situation described above. One, you had a great deal of experience running boats at high rates of speed. Two, you were sober. Three, you were on the boat alone, knowing full well that if anyone was going to be hurt should something have gone wrong, you, and only you would be possibly injured.

There, said my piece...

Port Monster
12-10-2011, 12:27 PM
I am not going to comment on the BAC except that it reduces judgement and slows reaction time and that is proven. But I am in the minority here regarding the roll over with propbender and a few others. A high BAC does not in and of itself explain why the boat rolled. I have go-fast buddies that take turns like the one described here and do other stuff I would never dream of doing and they do not result in the boat being bottom up in the water. I suppose that we will never know exactly what caused it ( I took a wave on at an angle with bow down and loose steering and ended up plastered on the bottom of the hull - no alcohol - so there could be other explanations than the guy was just drunk) but the conversation does serve as a learning experience to me (from both a BAC level and otherwise) so I do appreciate the conversations about hull limitations in a turn with speed.

seabob4
12-10-2011, 12:58 PM
Port,
Keep in mind, the water surface and, to an extent, the area below it, is a completely dynamic environment, and, one could also say, a chaotic environment (the physics, and theory, of chaos). While one can try to minimalize the variables of dynamic and chaotic environments, and therefore try to develop behavioral "givens" of said environments, the truth is those environments remain ever changing.

You can take a Porsche 911, ensure that all the possible variables aboard the car are the same every time, i.e. fuel load, tire pressures, tread wear, etc., and put it through high speed cornering, and it will behave almost exactly this turn as it did the last, and the next. It performs in more or less a static environment. The road surface doesn't really change, and, if the turn was entered a few cm's off, it will change slightly, not really enough to make a difference.

But the water? It changes constantly. And what a boat's hull may grab can be entirely different from what it grabbed the previous turn, and the next turn. Myself and high speed turning? Back off the throttles to the point where you know the boat can take it, then get back on them when the coast is clear...

GR1FFIN
12-10-2011, 01:17 PM
I guess what is causing me to have some, how shall we say, negative thoughts about the situation is the BAC level, and the fact that family and friends were put in harms way due to the inability of one impaired person to make rational decisions based on said impairment.

You guys know I like my beer.

So SeaBob.... I take it you have never driven (a car or boat) when buzzed or drunk (i.e. over .08) in your entire life? That would be unusual because very single person I know who has ever been drunk, has at some point made that stupid mistake. I also take it you have never put anyone in danger either, huh? The guy obviously made a mistake, he also paid the ultimate price. I'm not religious but I could sense you are so you should understand this one... "let he who has not sinned cast the first stone." No one endorses .25 BAC levels and operating moving objects... it's not like ur stance is some epiphany.



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