Dockside Chat - Expired ID = No Beer....GRRRR

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View Full Version : Expired ID = No Beer....GRRRR


dennin7418
04-20-2011, 06:33 PM
Frustrating experience.

ID expired on Monday....its in the mail....yes I know I should have been on top of it

Just frustrated to go to a bar I was at 2 days ago...get IDed by a new bartender and not be served because my ID expired on Monday.........is there no discretion these days????? I have the letter from the RMV showing I renewed, a social security card, a NH boating license with DOB but nope nothing good enough.....

Guess I have to carry my passport around.....

So aggrivating when the bartender goes "sure I know you are 26 but i can't serve you".....i guess law is the law but come on....what is the place going to get raided????



grrr....oh well..good thing i have a stocked bar


the good life
04-20-2011, 07:17 PM
Are you bragging? :rofl:

I was offered senior coffee at the Golden Arches when I didn't even qualify for it! :o

bumster
04-20-2011, 07:24 PM
I have had the same thing happen. Does something happen to your birthdate when the ID expires?


dennin7418
04-20-2011, 07:26 PM
Apparently your identity expires and your existense ends until your new ID arrives in the mail...

ScarabChris
04-20-2011, 08:46 PM
People are just stupid, and if there is a law on the books that says you have no adult rights if your ID expires then that is even stupider.

I can understand if your driver license expired and you are not permitted to drive until its current. But Its not like you got younger because your ID expired.

Jesus what is happening to society?

Flot
04-20-2011, 08:48 PM
People are just stupid, and if there is a law on the books that says you have no adult rights if your ID expires then that is even stupider.

I can understand if your driver license expired and you are not permitted to drive until its current. But Its not like you got younger because your ID expired.

Jesus what is happening to society?

Agreed.

Curmudgeon
04-20-2011, 09:02 PM
Does something happen to your birthdate when the ID expires?

No, you birthday doesn't change, but your valid picture ID becomes invalidafter your birthday. Better check your passport, you attention to detail doesn't bode well for that one, either ... :o

mronzo
04-20-2011, 09:57 PM
When grey hair and/or pattern baldness
sets in you won't have that problem now
will you fella?!

tprice
04-21-2011, 03:40 AM
Well I will be 49 this October and while I do not look old you can easily see I am way beyond 21

I never carry by wallet, it is a PITA literally :grin:, but other night on way home stopped at local convenience store to buy 6 pack of Dos Equis and clerk actually asked for my ID. I frowned and told her it was in the car and she looked and grinned and said ok

But I understand they have a job to do but it does look like common sense could prevail but I guess it can't this day and age

LI Sound Grunt
04-21-2011, 03:53 AM
I haven't been asked for an ID since I was 18 - and the drinking age here has always been 21 (well 18 for a few years of enlightenment in the seventies I think - after I was already 21). An old license and a letter saying you renewed should have been adequate - he was busting your chops - or hey, like you said he was a newbie.....

And, yea, it must be nice to have these "problems" :rofl:

yarcraft91
04-21-2011, 05:00 AM
That bartender was probably thinking "Hmm- the boss said I need to see a valid drivers license before I sell someone liquor- is my job and this bar's license worth the risk of selling a drink to a guy I don't know who doesn't have a valid license?.........No"

In my town, the scenario you presented to the bartender is one of the classic sting setups the local police use to check up on places with liquor licenses. Only the dumb vendors fall for it.

ISLANDER11
04-21-2011, 05:18 AM
Here's one for you..... Last year I was in the same situation, it was my birthday and my license expired that day. New one was in the mail but I was traveling and didn't have it in my possession. Well, midnight rolls around and the bartender refuses to give me another drink because when he had checked my ID several hours before, he had noticed that it was expiring that day. He says "sorry, cant serve you, you no longer have a valid ID". I asked him if he "thought I had gotten younger in the last couple of hours" and after a little chit chat he went ahead and served me, but the whole situation was ridiculous.

jobowker
04-21-2011, 05:46 AM
The reason that expired licenses don't work was because of fraud. Prior to turning 21, one of the easier ways to get into someplace, rather than risking purchasing a fake id, was get someone in their mid twenties whose license just expired. They give you their old id and you try to get in with it. They used to be focused on the date and information on the license more than the picture.

Couple that with overzealous enforcement where a DA wants to show everyone how they shut down a facility serving minors, and you can see why this have this foolishness.

runabout
04-21-2011, 06:02 AM
In Florida, it's actually a law that EVERYONE in the bar must have a valid, government issued ID. I used to bartend at some high end clubs and we had to jump through the ATF hoops and they would come in and give us "educational" responsible vendor meetings every 6 months. Basically, they said if you do our meetings and we get no complaints, you'll never see us during regular business hours. They suggested we have someone posted at the door and not to let anyone in the bar without a valid ID, no matter how old they looked. It may be a stupid law, but it's still the law.

ScarabChris
04-21-2011, 06:27 AM
In Florida, it's actually a law that EVERYONE in the bar must have a valid, government issued ID. I used to bartend at some high end clubs and we had to jump through the ATF hoops and they would come in and give us "educational" responsible vendor meetings every 6 months. Basically, they said if you do our meetings and we get no complaints, you'll never see us during regular business hours. They suggested we have someone posted at the door and not to let anyone in the bar without a valid ID, no matter how old they looked. It may be a stupid law, but it's still the law.

Yes a very stupid law. If I'm a bar tender and a guy that is clearly in his 40s walks up for a beer he is getting served. I know it can be tough these days to tell the difference between someone in their late teens and early 20s. But if a dude walks up with gray hair, wrinkles and a beard give him his beer.

And the 21 year old drinking law is stupid in my opinion too. If you're old enough to die for your country you should be old enough to buy a beer. People are going to be responsible (or not) weather they are 17 or 71.

My neighbor for instance, this guy is 40 years old and a huge screw up. Drunk all the time, loud, rude and not one person in the neighborhood likes him. The three kids are the real tragedy though. They don't stand a chance.

runabout
04-21-2011, 06:40 AM
Yes a very stupid law. If I'm a bar tender and a guy that is clearly in his 40s walks up for a beer he is getting served. I know it can be tough these days to tell the difference between someone in their late teens and early 20s. But if a dude walks up with gray hair, wrinkles and a beard give him his beer.

I agree it is stupid, but there is another side to it. When a bar is cited for a violation, there are several things that could happen depending upon their history. They could lose their liquor license, pay a fine, get a citation, a written warning or combination of the penalties. For the sake of this argument. let's just say the bar had been cited for serving a minor for the second time, put on notice they were being watched and that any infraction within 6 months could result in the loss of their license. Serving a person without an valid ID is an infraction and as much as it sucks, the bar has to play by the book to be compliant. Not saying this was the case, but you never know.

colmbarry
04-21-2011, 07:30 AM
I'm suprised that a " license is in the mail ". In Maryland, when you renew a license or replace a lost license, you go to the MVA, get your picture taken and walk out with the new license.

hhi angler
04-21-2011, 07:47 AM
Many states allow renewal by the mail. It keeps cost down and frees up DMV offices. Been doing it for years.

mulefeathers
04-21-2011, 09:12 AM
Reading this reminded me of a visit to a wing (Hooters I think) place in Jacksonville. There where 4 of us I was the youngest at 40. We sat down ordered 50 or 75 wings and 2 pictures of beer. Well only 2 of us had ID me not being one of them. I don’t carry a wallet just a money clip with cash and one card. Wallet is normally in the truck but I was making purchases for the company that day and left it in my desk drawer. Wallet is used to simply hold the credit cards. Anyway the waitress said I can only bring 1 picture and 2 glasses because they had the IDs, but I will bring you some water. Very politely I said then cancel the wings and we will go somewhere else. Her response was that she had already put the order in to which I said fine I am not paying for them unless there are 2 pictures and 4 glasses brought to the table. She leaves to get the manager at which point he is simply standing there telling us about the company policy. To which I had the same reply bring the drinks or cancel the food. I understand the policy and will respect but if I can’t get everything I order I don’t want any of it.

A second manager gets involved and uses some common sense and can tell we are all of age so we get our order. I understand valid IDs are needed when a younger crowd walks in, but at my age I am just not used to being asked for ID.

dennin7418
04-21-2011, 10:05 AM
haha....so stupid that they wouldn't just cancel your order and let you go.

Garett
04-21-2011, 10:32 AM
Frustrating experience.

ID expired on Monday....its in the mail....yes I know I should have been on top of it

Just frustrated to go to a bar I was at 2 days ago...get IDed by a new bartender and not be served because my ID expired on Monday.........is there no discretion these days????? I have the letter from the RMV showing I renewed, a social security card, a NH boating license with DOB but nope nothing good enough.....

Guess I have to carry my passport around.....

So aggrivating when the bartender goes "sure I know you are 26 but i can't serve you".....i guess law is the law but come on....what is the place going to get raided????



grrr....oh well..good thing i have a stocked bar

There you go thinking with your emotions again instead of your head. :roll
A 75 year old person wouldn't be able to get in for a drink if they don't have proper ID! The ID isn't for the drinks, it's for IDing someone after the gunman comes in and shoots up the place and there is a bunch of dead people.

RI Builder
04-21-2011, 10:50 AM
People are just stupid, and if there is a law on the books that says you have no adult rights if your ID expires then that is even stupider.

I can understand if your driver license expired and you are not permitted to drive until its current. But Its not like you got younger because your ID expired.

Jesus what is happening to society?


How can you reconcile not being able to drive with an expired license but yet you are saying that an expired ID should be allowed as proper ID at a bar? Using your argument, what, did someone forget how to drive because their license expired?

Now, lets look at some facts, the OP is 25 or 26 (I forgot), not 56. Still close enough to 21 where it could be questionable. The bartender is new and does not want to risk getting fired.

Now, I am a partner in a local pub and can offer the following based on my experiences here.

1) Unless being transferred, full blown liquor licenses cost tens of thousands of dollars in kickbacks, uhhh, excuse me, political donations. Is this worth risking over not following the law regarding ID's?

2) The expired ID is one of the oldest tricks used by LEO to bust a place. Now, regarding point 1 above - if the proper "donations" have been made, and the community is a "fixed number" community (meaning they only allow x number of licenses), then someone must lose theirs for the new contributor to get theirs. A few calls are made and they go off looking for the place with the most recent violations on record.

3) There are significant insurance cost uplifts if an establishment has a record of violations, especially around minors

In the end, the only one to blame is the OP - if he knew, which apparently he did, that he was going around with an expired ID, why wasn't he carrying his passport?

ScarabChris
04-21-2011, 10:51 AM
I am 36 (37 next month) and I have been drinking beer since I was 17. I honestly can't remember the last time I was ID'd for buying beer. And I frequent establishments that serve liquor.

I must have been in my early 20s the last time I was carded.

ScarabChris
04-21-2011, 11:15 AM
How can you reconcile not being able to drive with an expired license but yet you are saying that an expired ID should be allowed as proper ID at a bar? Using your argument, what, did someone forget how to drive because their license expired?

Now, lets look at some facts, the OP is 25 or 26 (I forgot), not 56. Still close enough to 21 where it could be questionable. The bartender is new and does not want to risk getting fired.

Now, I am a partner in a local pub and can offer the following based on my experiences here.

1) Unless being transferred, full blown liquor licenses cost tens of thousands of dollars in kickbacks, uhhh, excuse me, political donations. Is this worth risking over not following the law regarding ID's?

2) The expired ID is one of the oldest tricks used by LEO to bust a place. Now, regarding point 1 above - if the proper "donations" have been made, and the community is a "fixed number" community (meaning they only allow x number of licenses), then someone must lose theirs for the new contributor to get theirs. A few calls are made and they go off looking for the place with the most recent violations on record.

3) There are significant insurance cost uplifts if an establishment has a record of violations, especially around minors

In the end, the only one to blame is the OP - if he knew, which apparently he did, that he was going around with an expired ID, why wasn't he carrying his passport?

Because it is against the law to drive a car with an expired license, of course that doesn't mean you forgot how to drive. Driving is considered a "privilege" and a valid license is required to exercise that privilege.

Consuming alcohol is your "right" once you reach legal age and an expired ID doesn't lower your legal age.

For example.....lets say me and 3 buddies go to a bar for some beers. I forget my ID but the bar tender knows I am of age. A cop walks in to do a random ID check. I have no ID but once the cop confirms my identity I can assure you I am in no kind of trouble. The bar owner might be but I sure as hell won't be.

All I'm saying is its a stupid law. An expired ID doesn't change who you are or how old you are.

And to add insult to injury to the OP. He couldn't buy a beer with an expired ID but did you know you can travel on an expired passport for up to 6 months?

Where the hell is the logic in that?

RI Builder
04-21-2011, 11:26 AM
Because it is against the law to drive a car with an expired license, of course that doesn't mean you forgot how to drive. Driving is considered a "privilege" and a valid license is required to exercise that privilege.

Consuming alcohol is your "right" once you reach legal age and an expired ID doesn't lower your legal age.

For example.....lets say me and 3 buddies go to a bar for some beers. I forget my ID but the bar tender knows I am of age. A cop walks in to do a random ID check. I have no ID but once the cop confirms my identity I can assure you I am in no kind of trouble. The bar owner might be but I sure as hell won't be.

All I'm saying is its a stupid law. An expired ID doesn't change who you are or how old you are.

And to add insult to injury to the OP. He couldn't buy a beer with an expired ID but did you know you can travel on an expired passport for up to 6 months?

Where the hell is the logic in that?

Exactly my point. No, an expired ID does not lower your age, but in accordance with the laws on the books for establishments (at least here) an expired ID does not validate your age either.

No, YOU wouldn't be in trouble, but the bar would be, and whose interest does the bartender have to keep in mind?

The bottom line here is that the only one that cinducted poor diligence in this case, is the OP.

Not sure where you heard that, but last I knew you could not travel on an expired passport, and in fact, I was once denied entry to a country because my passport had less than 6 months left on it. My employer at the time was thrilled to know I was coming back the same day :grin:

runabout
04-21-2011, 11:33 AM
Because it is against the law to drive a car with an expired license, of course that doesn't mean you forgot how to drive. Driving is considered a "privilege" and a valid license is required to exercise that privilege.

Consuming alcohol is your "right" once you reach legal age and an expired ID doesn't lower your legal age.

For example.....lets say me and 3 buddies go to a bar for some beers. I forget my ID but the bar tender knows I am of age. A cop walks in to do a random ID check. I have no ID but once the cop confirms my identity I can assure you I am in no kind of trouble. The bar owner might be but I sure as hell won't be.

All I'm saying is its a stupid law. An expired ID doesn't change who you are or how old you are.

And to add insult to injury to the OP. He couldn't buy a beer with an expired ID but did you know you can travel on an expired passport for up to 6 months?

Where the hell is the logic in that?

Ok Chris,

Let's go over a few things here. Just as it is a privilege to drive, it is also a privilege to consume alcohol.....violate certain laws and see if part of your punishment or probation isn't the revocation of your privilege to consume alcohol with random testing to make sure you adhere to it.

Yes, it is a stupid law (as I have stated before), but it states you must have a valid ID to purchase alcohol. In your scenario about a cop doing a random ID check and you not having an ID and not getting in trouble, you are absolutely correct. But the holder of the liquor license may get in trouble (even if the cops determine you are of age) for serving you and it is their right to refuse service to anyone that may put their license in jeopardy.

What are the chances of the bar owner getting caught? Probably very, very slim.....but it is their right to make that decision.

gsous89
04-21-2011, 11:37 AM
thats weird, when I turned 21 this fall and my license was expired I used it for about 3 weeks until i got my new one with no problems. New Hampshire as well

good luck

Dulcecita Lures
04-21-2011, 11:43 AM
I still use my expired Navy ID card as a valid form of identification. Has my picture, DOB, SSN, and it's an official US Government document. Just because it's expired doesn't change who I am and that I served in the Navy. Nobody has ever questioned that it is actually expired. BassPro gives me a 10% discount just for flashing it.

Then again, old farts like me don't get carded for booze.

ScarabChris
04-21-2011, 12:16 PM
Me and three of my buddies go to the Bahamas 2-3 times a year. Last year two of my friends realized their passports were expired just days before the first trip of the year. There was nowhere near enough time to ge them new passports.

So on the spot I called US Customs (CBP) and asked about the expired passports. I was told by a CBP officer that they had 6 months to use the expired passport before they would be in trouble.

So we went ot the Bahamas, checked in with their Customs and Immigration, no problems at all. Upon our return they checked back in with US Customs (CBP) again no problems. They did remind the two guy that they needed to get their passports renewed soon. But no trouble traveling.

Now I know this may vary in other countries. But the Bahamas and the US are OK with traveling on an expired passport.

And I know if you break certain laws a judge can prohibit you from drinking. Thats touching on a whole other subject. We are simply talking about a law abiding citizen with an expired driver license or an expired ID.

A law abiding citizen that forgets to renew his driver license is not permitted to drive.

A law abiding citizen that forgets to renew his ID is still permitted to consume alcohol. Maybe he can't "legally" sit in a bar and buy it but he can consume it....legally.

Boat Hound
04-21-2011, 12:42 PM
I am sitting at a bar in Ohare right now, and I was carded. I am a 40 year old that looks like 50- grey hair (whats left of it). Reading this, I asked the bar tender what is up with that - Company policy, card everyone. He loses his job if he does not card.

It is the classic dumbing down of America. Hire stupid people and make them fall the rules to the tee. No discretion. It is cheaper to hire a dope at minimum wage than hire someone with some common sense.

Elizabeth Reed
04-21-2011, 12:51 PM
I told my 90 year old mother who is going to see Jimmy Buffet tonight in Charlotte to be sure she takes her ID if she wants to gulp down one of those 24oz Bullets. This is her first concert. I explained what to do if someone passes her a joint..........my sister and I both said at the same time...... "don't bogart that joint" mom. I told her to hit it hard and hold it a long time......lol.;cool;;cool;;cool; She went home early from work today to get a nap before the show. I can't wait til tomorrow to hear about it all!! :thumbsup::thumbsup:

ScarabChris
04-21-2011, 01:42 PM
I am sitting at a bar in Ohare right now, and I was carded. I am a 40 year old that looks like 50- grey hair (whats left of it). Reading this, I asked the bar tender what is up with that - Company policy, card everyone. He loses his job if he does not card.

It is the classic dumbing down of America. Hire stupid people and make them fall the rules to the tee. No discretion. It is cheaper to hire a dope at minimum wage than hire someone with some common sense.

Ask the bar tender if he is looking at the birth date and picture and simply matching it to the person ordering the drink or is he also looking to see if the ID is expired or not.

And if so would he deny you a drink if your ID were a few days expired.

twentynine
04-21-2011, 04:16 PM
Oh no!!!!!!!!!!!!

Not again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I agree with RIB.

You don't take care of your business as you are suppose to, your ID expired, now tell me why is some one else is stupid?

Shag
04-21-2011, 05:02 PM
It is the classic dumbing down of America.

Rasing the drinking age to 21 to begin with was a dumbing down of America. Vote, get killed in war, but no beer. :roll

23Dorado
04-21-2011, 05:06 PM
I never got ID'd in my early 20s but I do all the time now. ;?

dennin7418
04-22-2011, 05:57 AM
Chris is taking this one for me....

I don't believe I called the bar tender or manager stupid I just simply think the law is stupid...especially since I had multiple pieces of identity to show them (including the email print out confirming that my license was in the mail).....unless I stole an expired license and created fake cards ect just to go there that night for a beer I don't see how they couldn't use common sense and smarts to serve me...

I do understand the risk they take and I myself would probably do the same....the real problem to me is the law itself.

Also suprised that they even noticed that.....I think most bartenders at most look at the year and maybe the picture...not do the math every time they card someone....

oh well....carrying my passport around now until I get the license....hopefully that counts

emgag
04-22-2011, 01:59 PM
Who drinks in Bars anyway? ;?

:jk:

Elizabeth Reed
04-22-2011, 05:00 PM
I worked as a Sales Manager for a couple beer wholesalers almost 20 years here in NC. You would not believe the laws concerning alcohol. Most ABC commissions really work over the license holders and their employees providing and requiring attendance to seminars regarding these laws. Most establishments will fire an employee for not following them. It has become a liability issue and not a common sense issue. Its nothing personal they are doing their job. That is why I like drinking at home, the only thing I have to put up with is my wife telling me "thats enough" when I am heading out the door to the fridge in the garage.......:thumbsup:

miktri
04-23-2011, 03:17 AM
As a former bar manager in the great state of Taxachusetts they have very strict rules on id's. Must have a picture and be VALID, the only time an expired ID is accepted is when it is accompanied by a valid Active Duty ID. Different towns and citys and bars can set their on standards as long as they are stronger than the State. In the bar I managed it was Mass Driver's license, State issued ID. Even with ID I had the RIGHT to refuse service to anyone for any reason.

Boat Hound
04-23-2011, 04:50 AM
As a former bar manager in the great state of Taxachusetts they have very strict rules on id's. Must have a picture and be VALID, the only time an expired ID is accepted is when it is accompanied by a valid Active Duty ID. Different towns and citys and bars can set their on standards as long as they are stronger than the State. In the bar I managed it was Mass Driver's license, State issued ID. Even with ID I had the RIGHT to refuse service to anyone for any reason.

Living in NH, working in MA, I am familiar with the stupidity of the laws in MA. Brought some clients to a Sox game last summer. We were at the game a bit early, and were grabbing a few beers. The beer guy asks for all our id's, I know they id everyone at Fenway and the Garden. I give him my drivers license which is a duplicate, no beer for me. I give him some lip and then he says they do not even have to take an out of state id.

In general MA must have some of the stupidest laws in the nation.

Live Free or Die :thumbsup:

KJS
04-23-2011, 05:46 AM
The problem is not with the bartender, it is with the law and how it is stupidly and aggressively enforced. They set people up and there is an actualy fine for the person that accepts a bad id after being set up.

In Ohare airport they ID everyone at the bars. Even if you are 90 years old you get carded. It is always funny watching the Europeans reaction when asked.

ndb8fxe
04-23-2011, 11:31 AM
S. Chris - I normally agree with you, but not on this one. In any line of business where is required to se e an ID an expired ID is the same as not having an ID. If you pay my company $30K for me to fly you to LA and you show up without a VALID ID, We are not going. Does the validity of the ID change who I think you are? No, but an ID that is not valid is not an ID. Too much is riding on the line like a huge fine/career problems. Try it at the airlines and they will tell you the same thing.

I'm 38 years old and see many places and bars. It is becomming more and more common that drinking establishments require ID from everyone that orders a drink whether 21 or 75 it doesn't matter. The bar owners are covering their ass and license by not leaving it up to the bartender's discression. The bartender wants to keep his/her job. The pressure is coming from above the bartender/manager/owner level.

bayrunner16
04-23-2011, 01:00 PM
Because it is against the law to drive a car with an expired license, of course that doesn't mean you forgot how to drive. Driving is considered a "privilege" and a valid license is required to exercise that privilege.

Consuming alcohol is your "right" once you reach legal age and an expired ID doesn't lower your legal age.

For example.....lets say me and 3 buddies go to a bar for some beers. I forget my ID but the bar tender knows I am of age. A cop walks in to do a random ID check. I have no ID but once the cop confirms my identity I can assure you I am in no kind of trouble. The bar owner might be but I sure as hell won't be.

All I'm saying is its a stupid law. An expired ID doesn't change who you are or how old you are.

And to add insult to injury to the OP. He couldn't buy a beer with an expired ID but did you know you can travel on an expired passport for up to 6 months?

Where the hell is the logic in that?

Not being a dick, but I'm pretty sure you are wrong on that one.

In most states there are laws concerning having a valid ID card on your person at all times. Without one they can detain and hold you until proper identification can be made. Go spout your mouth off to a cop and when he ID's you tell him you don't have one. Guess what? You get a ride to the big house to verify who you really are.



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