SportFishing and Charters Forum - How do you serve your spliced connections?

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Capt. Ahab
04-19-2011, 09:18 AM
I wanted to get some input from guys that do windon leaders with the spectra spliced to the mono. I use 130# hollow JB and 100# jinkai mono for my topshot. Single wall splice for 3 feet, I run the mono outside of the JB for 1 inch, then back in for another foot. I use waxed floss to make half-hitch serves and I cover the serves in Pliobond. I use 2 serves, one where the mono enters the spectra and the other at the 1 inch spot where the mono comes outside the JB. I am somewhat new to offshore fishing, and I used this method on one trip last year. I caught a couple fish on them, and when I did have tackle failure, the splice was never the problem. I'm wondering if there are any weaknesses in the method I used?


mscontender
04-19-2011, 09:23 AM
I run my mono in the braid for approx 3' but do not exit and reenter the braid as I do not believe that is nec. to obtain 100% connection. I have used zap a gap and Pliobond and prefer the Pliobond as the zap a gap makes for a stiff serve. I purchased a jig and serving spool from Basil Papas which makes making a good tight serve a cinch.

tommymo
04-19-2011, 09:30 AM
I make a double wall windon using 80 - 100 lb hollow core. I use a serving tool to make my servings.

Just curious as to why your choosing to use 130 JB? You can easily splice 100 lb leader into 80?


Capt. Mike Ellis
04-19-2011, 09:53 AM
After I insert my mono into the braid about two feet. I just tie a very simple granny knot about a 1/8" or so back from where the mono comes out of the braid. Very simple and it has not failed once. It's the perfect keep it simple stupid type of connection. It's the perfect KISS keep it simple stupid connection.
Capt. Mike

Massbaytuna3
04-19-2011, 11:22 AM
We fish primarily for bluefin tuna and spool and splice 2 different ways:

1 - The standard finger trap splice. We use mostly 130 JB or 200lb Tuff Line XP as backing on our 50s and 70s with 130lb Jinkai top shot. On our 130s we use 200lb Dacron and 150-200lb Jinkai TS. When trap splicing into the JB or TL, I splice 6'+ (my rule of thumb is to be able to have a complete wrap of the splice on the spool, with the mono inside braid connection beyond the tip of the rod. I make one serve or "whip" with fly tying thread and a bobin, and then dab with some Zap and accelerator. Makes a very smooth connection.

I do this same thing with our 130 setups, but I make the splice 10'+ (I know they are just as strong shorter, but I have always been told by the old time giant guys; 10-12' ;) ) Same thing, one nice serve with fly tying thread and bobbin (2" long or so). I have tested both of these with 50+ lbs of drag...no slippage, etc etc.

2 - On the Fortuna we use the"Quick Change" method now. Basically a loop to loop connection, BUT on the loop splice made on the braid backing; I put an additional sleave of braid or dacron on the loop before I complete it. Creating a chaffe proof loop. It helps the other loop from burying and cutting through the braid. I hold it in place with a small serve and dab of Zap. The only downfall to doing this is that this loop splice ISN'T a double wall splice...still very strong. The single wall loop splice is about 6' back into the braid.

On the top shot loop (basically a huge wind on leader) I create a double wall loop splice and trap splice the mono inside (3.5'). I connect the top shot to the backing; loop to loop.

The reason I call this "Quick Change" is because I go ahead a make up a dozen or so 100yd shots of Jinaki with the loops spliced on. When the mono needs to be changed out, you can pull off the old top shot SNIP THE LOOP ON THE OLD TOP SHOT (not the chaffe gear loop on the backing) and then loop a fresh top shot on. Takes about 4 minutes to do this including the spooling.

Sorry this is long winded...but I figured I would give my two cents.

New to the site btw.

Thanks guys,
-Bryan

Wraypau
04-19-2011, 11:54 AM
I use the JB 120 and Ande 80 or 100. I splice about 5 feet for topshots. I take serving floss, about 4 ft, and fold it so that it is 2ft long on each side of where i bend the floss. I lay the loop end over the jb/mono about 1/4 inch from the end of the jb where the mono is exposed. I bring both loose ends of floss through my looped end. Snug really tight. Then I do about 10-15 half hitches off each side of the connection I just made. One 2 ft leg of floss goes towards lre end, the other goes towards the rod end.

I cannot explain the rest. on how to finish the ends. Its on youtube. Watch this video around the 1:50 mark. It shows you how to do the nail knot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lF1u8bnwB4Y

Finish with plaibond, or whatever. I just use suger glue, never had a problem.

Makaira Pulling Lures
04-19-2011, 12:24 PM
After I insert my mono into the braid about two feet. I just tie a very simple granny knot about a 1/8" or so back from where the mono comes out of the braid. Very simple and it has not failed once. It's the perfect keep it simple stupid type of connection. It's the perfect KISS keep it simple stupid connection.
Capt. Mike

hey mike - you are a braver man than me! it may not fail, but i would be a nervous wreck everytime the backing came off the reel!!

offshore3144
04-19-2011, 12:32 PM
Check out this thread I have posted this a few times over the years...Mark
http://www.thehulltruth.com/sportfishing-charters-forum/267382-windon-construction-videos.html

offshore3144
04-19-2011, 12:35 PM
There is always a question on how to do the Spectra Loop on the end of your JB hollow core or Dacron mainline. I put together a 2 part step by step Video to help those out that wanted to learn how to do the end loop......Mark

The videos over lap just a little so you can continue where you left off in the first video.
Just click on the links below:
" Spetcra End Loop Part 1 " (http://albums.phanfare.com/isolated/uEeCXOe1/1068386/3382625)

" Spetcra End Loop Part 2 " (http://albums.phanfare.com/isolated/ifxOvna2/1068386/3383820)

Capt. Mike Ellis
04-19-2011, 01:28 PM
Justin how many times have you heard of a windon coming apart and failing. I have had a few do it to me. But not since I switched over to doing it this way. If you think about it all the serving does is keep the braid from getting pushed up the mono and loosening up. The overhand knot wont cut itself the braid keeps it from doing that. Besides if I pop off a lure I know who to call to buy some more. Think of it as a good thing for your sales.

Wraypau
04-20-2011, 06:41 AM
Justin,

I dont see the need for the knot. I have tested with these connections a lot while bored at work. I once pulled over a +100lb. filing cabinet with about 8 inches of mono inside the braid. No serving. The fingertrap is sufficient enough to hold. What you are really concerned is with inraveling of the hollowbraid at the end, and the HB slipping back up the mono. that is the reason for the serving.

Try one without the knot, just put a good serving on it. The line will spool a lot better, and no tag to hang in the eyes of the rod. Trust me, give it a try you wont be disappointed...

Makaira Pulling Lures
04-20-2011, 10:19 AM
Justin,

I dont see the need for the knot. I have tested with these connections a lot while bored at work. I once pulled over a +100lb. filing cabinet with about 8 inches of mono inside the braid. No serving. The fingertrap is sufficient enough to hold. What you are really concerned is with inraveling of the hollowbraid at the end, and the HB slipping back up the mono. that is the reason for the serving.

Try one without the knot, just put a good serving on it. The line will spool a lot better, and no tag to hang in the eyes of the rod. Trust me, give it a try you wont be disappointed...

believe me, i use a serving and way more than 3' of splice!

cr bound
04-20-2011, 10:49 AM
There many ways to splice mono into spectra. I have found this method to be one of the easiest. Run the mono around 3 to 4 feet up the spectra. Then glue with zip-a-gap or something similar, Then to serve the splice using half hitches.( I like to start an inch into the spectra and inch into mono.) Total serve length is around 2 inches. I finish this off with a second application of glue. **************Keep in mind this is all done under pressure.***********



I do a few hundred of this type of connections a season and have not ever seen a failure.

Regulator29
04-20-2011, 10:58 AM
Just got done putting 130 HC JB with 80 Diamond top shot on 8 Tiagra 50s. Ran the mono 3 feet up the JB and used 30 JB to serve and finished with UV Knot Sense adhesive (flexible). Use this for my BFT jigging out fits too and no failures ... going to knock on some wood now with hopes I didn't just jinx myself.
FYI I put 500 yards 130 JB with 200 yards of 80 Diamond 0n my Tiagra 50W.

On The Edge 1
04-20-2011, 12:26 PM
In order to produce wind ons and topshots properly one needs to understand each element and its purpose.

The hollow line itself can have an effect on the splice. To large of hollow line compared to the line being spliced into it and you increase the risk of failier. Poor serves can result in slippage.

The quality of a splice is measured in 2 ways, how much static presure it can hold in relation to the materials used, and slippage durring repeated load cycles. With out using an adhesive to bond the spectra/Dacron to the mono/floro/cable a load cycle test will likely show slippage.

ALL my windons and top shots (Mono, Floro, Cable) are made with a double finger trap (doubled spectra). Mono and floro leader materials are inserted 24" max.
For mono and floro leaders/top shots i glue the spectra to the mono/floro using a new Product Basil sells (Instaflex Spectra Adhesive) it's a super glue that dries in seconds and stays flexible. I then serve the connection at the point were the leader material exists the spectra 1/2" up on the spectra and 1/4" down the leader material using 30lb solid spectra, the tag end of the serve gets under wrapped. Then a drop of the Instaflex over the serve for a sealer and done.

For uncoated multi strand cable leaders i use Pliobond under and over the finger trap.

Multi strand Cable will get inserted into the doubled spectra 3 feet. The outer layer of spectra is slightly longer then the inner layer. The cable will get a lacquer thinner cleaning to remove the oils used in the manufacturing process, but only where it exits the spectra, and it is allowed to dry, (a blast of compressed air will dry it in seconds). A coating of Pliobond will be applied to the cable so when the spectra is slid back down the cable it will cover the wet Pliobond and will be forced into the weave of both the spectra and the cable. A 1" long serve is then done on top of the glued area, being sure the serve extends down onto the cable by 1/4 of the total length of the serve. The tag of the serve is under wrapped and a coating of pliobond is applied to the serve as a sealer.

The reason I use the pliobond on multi strand cable is because of the weave of the cable and the flexibility of the Pliobod. If i used a superglue even the Instaflex, when the cable bends each strands moves a little different and the bond can be broken or weakened. The Pliobond is a rubber cement and has a lot of flexibility

I have tried to disassemble a cable wind on leader after a few weeks and it took nearly 20 mins to get the serve off and get the cable out of the spectra. There is NO slippage in my cable leaders even after numerous loading cycles.

On thing i have seen is multiple serves on a leader. This is absolutely WRONG!! It is defeating the finger trap. The serve has 2 purposes.
#1 is to prevent the spectra/Dacron from unraveling.
#2 it anchors the spectra/Dacron on the leader material when there is no tension on the finger trap during times of slack line.


This is how i do it. Your milage may vary.



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