SportFishing and Charters Forum - Dumb Question about eyes on a trolling lure

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Endtuition01
04-18-2011, 07:53 AM
Is there something designed into a troling lure with eyes that makes it troll with the eyes positioned correctly ? Same question for those with the flat insert ? I know it looks more like a fish in your hand, but once its in the water don't they all spin ?


VanW
04-18-2011, 08:15 AM
Lures aren't supposed to spin... most of them are heavier on the bottom and that keeps them up right. (if the hooks are set up correctly)

Dulcecita Lures
04-18-2011, 10:02 AM
Is there something designed into a troling lure with eyes that makes it troll with the eyes positioned correctly ? Same question for those with the flat insert ? I know it looks more like a fish in your hand, but once its in the water don't they all spin ?

Not a dumb question at all. The reality of it is - it depends on the lure design. In other words, what face shape the lure has and whether or not it's been keel-weighted or evenly weighted. For example, slant face lures tend to run without spinning because of the the water pressure against the face as it's being trolled, so spinning is greatly minimized. On the other hand, a non-keel weighted bullet lure can and usually will spin (depending on how it's rigged) because it's a straight-line lure and cuts through the water with even pressure all around it.

I tend to keel-weight the heads I want to run in a particular position. By keel weighting, I mean that we make the lead insert so that it's triangular in shape, rather than perfectly square. We place the fatter part of the triangle down, along the bottom of the lure head, so it's heavier on the bottom than top. This keeps the position "right-side up" as the lure is trolled.

Also, I tend not to use eyes on any lure that is going to spin - evenly weighted chuggers, scoops, flat-faced, bullets, etc.

You can always rig a rubber stopper plug under the skirts of many lures to keep them from spinning, too.


dosburros
04-18-2011, 10:10 AM
Arrrr. Let's ask 'them fishes!

I don't know how much of a difference the eyes make. I've caught 100-200 lb tunas on chewed-up cedar plugs with no eyes.

Endtuition01
04-19-2011, 08:12 AM
Thanks for the feedback. I've never noticed a keel weighted lure other than the obvious ones for draging ballyhoo. Learning something every day.

samoajoe
04-19-2011, 11:49 AM
Like Stu said above about lures running upright...it can be crucial to the action of the lure. Another point to consider about spinning is if the swivel can't keep up then you run the risk of twisting up the main line to render it usless. Keel weighting is key! Often ignored, it makes a huge difference.

Wraypau
04-19-2011, 12:30 PM
If you have lures that are bullet shapped, or symetrical, how can you add keel weights? I have some lures from hawaii, metal jet heads, spent a fortune on them, and they just spin like a top. Can I add a half oz egg behind head, but before hook to stop this spinning?

Any other suggestions?

I saw above in previous post, you said rigging can play a big part in spin. Can you please go into detail here?

samoajoe
04-19-2011, 02:45 PM
If you have lures that are bullet shapped, or symetrical, how can you add keel weights? I have some lures from hawaii, metal jet heads, spent a fortune on them, and they just spin like a top. Can I add a half oz egg behind head, but before hook to stop this spinning?

Any other suggestions?

I saw above in previous post, you said rigging can play a big part in spin. Can you please go into detail here?

Possibly a single hook stiff rig would help with the spinning, hook locked with the hook acting as a keel itself.

Dulcecita Lures
04-19-2011, 02:54 PM
If you have lures that are bullet shapped, or symetrical, how can you add keel weights? I have some lures from hawaii, metal jet heads, spent a fortune on them, and they just spin like a top. Can I add a half oz egg behind head, but before hook to stop this spinning?

Any other suggestions?

I saw above in previous post, you said rigging can play a big part in spin. Can you please go into detail here?

Unfortunately, the keel weighting I mentioned only works during the manufacturing process when we pour the lead inserts -- part of the lure design. For bullets and your metal jet heads, that's obviously not the answer. About the only way you could add a keel weight would be to glue some lead strips on the bottom of the lure and that's definitely going to affect its action.

Adding an egg sinker behind the lure head is probably not going to stop the spinning, although I use that technique to rig my venturi jets -- not due to spinning, but because there is no weight in the head itself.

Some other tricks I have used:

1) Jam a toothpick under the skirt between the leader and brass tubing on the lure head (depending on how much room there is). This is often enough to hold the lure in place on the leader and stop any spinning.

2) Rubber plug the back of the lure head. You can see an example at this link (http://www.tokunagastore.com/Menu/TrollingLures.htm), middle of the page. Rubber plugs are commonly used for aligning hooks (to keep them up or down in relation to the head (the stiff rigging Joe mentioned), but also serve to stop a lure from wildly spinning on the leader. You may be able to accomplish the same by tightly wrapping a rubber band around the leader before the hook and where the back of the lure head will rest -- kind of like applying a rubber brake to the spinning.

3) Rig the lure with a heavier leader. This will often help, too, but depends more on how heavy the head is and what is causing it to spin so badly in the 1st place. Obviously, you don't want to troll a 6" cherry jet on 400 lb. mono, but upping the weight and diameter of the leader a bit may correct the problem for you.

A little bit of spin is not going to make a difference on the fish-attracting ability of most straight-running lures. As Joe said, always use a top quality snap swivel to avoid twist in the line. But, if the lure is just spinning out of control and looks like something from Catchy Tackle, it's not going to work right or catch fish.

Catchy Tackle Spinner Jet - for those that have no idea what I'm talking about, these have a set of blades that spin while the lure is being trolled; adds a lot of flash and disturbance:

Bandit1
04-20-2011, 06:07 PM
yup, what samoa joe said. stiff rig a single hook sticking up as rudder. i've used tooth picks rubber stoppers and electrical tape to keep the hook running vertical.

Jah Son
04-20-2011, 10:03 PM
I think the Ilander bullets have the hole offset so the "bottom" and "top" stay that way. They don't seem to spin as much as other center-holed bullets.

The box says it's for the wiggle, and maybe it is, but it seems to help it run straight.

Makaira Pulling Lures
04-21-2011, 06:40 AM
eyes on a lure are for the fisherman, along with color, in my opinion. whatever you have confidence in is whats in your spread and ultimately what gets eaten.

there are a million lures out there and they all do their own thing, some are keel weighted, some are center weighted, and some are not weighted, some have centered leader holes and some are offset. the style of the head is mainly what determines if a lure runs "true", up and down, or not. scoop nose and flat faced symetrical lures with a centered leader hole will tend to spin on the central axis, but not like a top unless there is a problem, like mentioned, usually a stiff rigged single hook will keep them right, or if preferred keel weighting. not saying they will not roll, but they will not spin like a top. if the spin you are refering to is a tight cicrle, say a foot or two in diameter, then i would toss the lure in the garbage, in my opinion. slant faced lures and symetrically faced lures with offset leader holes will run true, especially with a single stiff hook rig. keel weighting these lures is not necessary, but some like it in the rough, still not necessary if you place it the right place one the wave. some slants with flatter angled faces will control roll, this is part of the design, the lure will come up for air "true" and roll 180 degrees and dig while down, upright itself to come up again, and repeat the process. i would experiement with different lures to find out what works behind your boat for what you are fishing for, this is in reference to blue marlin fishing.

HOWEVER, look at probably the best tuna lure ever in the cedar plug and explain the roll, spin, zigzag of that sucker and all theories are blown, as far as a lure having to run "true", at least for tuna!

dosburros
04-21-2011, 06:44 AM
eyes on a lure are for the fisherman, along with color, in my opinion. whatever you have confidence in is whats in your spread and ultimately what gets eaten.

there are a million lures out there and they all do their own thing, some are keel weighted, some are center weighted, and some are not weighted, some have centered leader holes and some are offset. the style of the head is mainly what determines if a lure runs "true", up and down, or not. scoop nose and flat faced symetrical lures with a centered leader hole will tend to spin on the central axis, but not like a top unless there is a problem, like mentioned, usually a stiff rigged single hook will keep them right, or if preferred keel weighting. not saying they will not roll, but they will not spin like a top. if the spin you are refering to is a tight cicrle, say a foot or two in diameter, then i would toss the lure in the garbage, in my opinion. slant faced lures and symetrically faced lures with offset leader holes will run true, especially with a single stiff hook rig. keel weighting these lures is not necessary, but some like it in the rough, still not necessary if you place it the right place one the wave. some slants with flatter angled faces will control roll, this is part of the design, the lure will come up for air "true" and roll 180 degrees and dig while down, upright itself to come up again, and repeat the process. i would experiement with different lures to find out what works behind your boat for what you are fishing for, this is in reference to blue marlin fishing.

HOWEVER, look at probably the best tuna lure ever in the cedar plug and explain the roll, spin, zigzag of that sucker and all theories are blown, as far as a lure having to run "true", at least for tuna!

I'd say end it on that note, well said!

samoajoe
04-21-2011, 08:47 PM
Word!

Justin.....I know your buddy Angelo and he has seen alot of the lures I've made. Let me know when you head this way to deliver a fresh crop to J&M. Like to meet you some time.

Endtuition01
04-22-2011, 07:04 AM
Thanks for the feedback ! Very good info, THT quality stuff right here. Learning as I go.

Makaira Pulling Lures
04-23-2011, 04:57 AM
Word!

Justin.....I know your buddy Angelo and he has seen alot of the lures I've made. Let me know when you head this way to deliver a fresh crop to J&M. Like to meet you some time.

10-4. send me an email to jroper@makairapullinglures.com.

tuna777
04-25-2011, 03:25 PM
when fish are not picky I think it does not make a difference, but when the bite is slow it can make all the difference in the world:o

tuna777
04-25-2011, 03:32 PM
this picture speaks volumes, the weighted hook is a trick to keep the lure running true

samoajoe
04-25-2011, 09:08 PM
Is that diving frog underneath that first lure?????????

tuna777
04-26-2011, 04:09 PM
Is that diving frog underneath that first lure?????????

Its and ocean bull frog:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rof l::rofl:



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