Trucks & Trailers - How to keep boat from sliding forward?

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Hockleyneck
03-10-2011, 06:40 AM
Anybody have a good design to keep a boat from coming forward in a panic stop? I have a 26 Regulator on a tandem aluminum trailer. I have seen people that have drilled eyelets into the aluminum trailer aft of the boat eylet and run a chain. The eylets would seem to be the weak spot. How much do you think drilling the eye beam affects the overall strength of the trailer?

Another idea is to fasten to the trailer post but this seem to be prone to failure as well.I currently use the safety chain and a heavy duty strap from the boat eylet to the trailer frame at a cross member just aft of the eyelet. The cross member does not look HD enough for a panic stop, but it will help.

Thanks for any pics or ideas.


BACKTOTHESEA
03-10-2011, 06:52 AM
Take a length of chain. wrap it around the steel tubing that the stanchion is bolted to. join the end of the 2 lengths of chain to the bow eye with a heavy duty link, an anchor link is suitable. Quick links are not. to take up slack, adjust the chain length accordingly. Once all is adjusted, join the 2 sections of chain with a bolt near where they wrap around the stanchion support. This will keep it in place once adjusted.

IMO, chain is the strongest, most simple and strongest. The chain may be able to slide on the frame where wrapped, but usually the stanchion mount will prevent much movement. If there is too much room, use a channel clamp and cross bar mounted to the framework immediately in front of where you are wrapping the chain. The chain will not slide past this.

A Few Dollars
03-10-2011, 07:00 AM
Chain and a turnbuckle.


JRussell
03-10-2011, 07:01 AM
I think the bow stand combined with some strong straps on the stern should hold up pretty well. That way you create a lot of friction between the boat hull and trailer bunks which will help to stop the boat from sliding forward.

rwidman
03-10-2011, 07:21 AM
I think the bow stand combined with some strong straps on the stern should hold up pretty well. That way you create a lot of friction between the boat hull and trailer bunks which will help to stop the boat from sliding forward.

Stern straps are important. ;)

If you secure the bow to the trailer, it can't move forward unless the winch post fails.

Straps have some stretch, chain does not. Provided the straps are strong enough, they are better than chain.

A Few Dollars
03-10-2011, 08:21 AM
Transom straps going straight up and down will not stop a boat from sliding horizontally on the trailer. The may limit the motion but not completely stop it.

dennin7418
03-10-2011, 08:44 AM
Wouldn't the trailer stop this???

Seems like something that would only happen if the boat was not properly fit to the trailer..

On The Edge 1
03-10-2011, 09:09 AM
Transom straps going straight up and down will not stop a boat from sliding horizontally on the trailer. The may limit the motion but not completely stop it.

Wrong !!! it is simple math and geometry.

If your stern straps are strait up and down in order for the boat to move back or forward the boat will have to move down as well, if it does not move down it will not move forward or backwards. The length of the strap will not change so the distance from tie point on the trailer to tie point of the boat can not change. If the boat moves forward only, and does not move down, the distance from anchor point to anchor point increases.

Now if your stern strap is not strait up and down and the tie point on your boat extends past the tie point on your trailer (boat sticks out past the end of the trailer) the boat can then move the same distance in the opposite direction.

JRussell
03-10-2011, 09:10 AM
Wrong !!! it is simple math and geometry.

If your stern straps are strait up and down in order for the boat to move back or forward the boat will have to move down as well, if it does not move down it will not move forward or backwards. The length of the strap will not change so the distance from tie point on the trailer to tie point of the boat can not change. If the boat moves forward only, and does not move down, the distance from anchor point to anchor point increases.

Now if your stern strap is not strait up and down and the tie point on your boat extends past the tie point on your trailer (boat sticks out past the end of the trailer) the the boat can then move the same distance in the opposite direction.

:thumbsup:

A Few Dollars
03-10-2011, 09:20 AM
Wrong !!! it is simple math and geometry.

In a perfect world

Straps stretch, they are never 100% tight.

I said "They may limit the motion but not completely stop it."

lemaymiami
03-10-2011, 09:41 AM
Lots of different opinions on this topic but I've personally seen more than one boat completely lay down the winch stand on the way to wiping out the tow vehicle from the rear... I personally had an axle snap while making a left turn and accelerating to get everything moving six years ago. The gunnel strap snapped like it was just a thread when the entire trailer pancaked on the highway (and this was only a lightweight 17' guide skiff, a Maverick). The only thing that kept my hull even partially on the trailer was a little extra I had on the front end of my skiff, more about that later...

I was taught some years ago to use a turnbuckle or turnbuckle and chain to secure a boat from going forward in a crash or panic stop and they really work. In use the turnbuckle or chain is anchored directly under the bow eye to the trailer frame or tongue (or both if possible) and then tightened down (that's why the turnbuckle) until it's under enough tension so that there's no play at all (but not so tight that you're seriously stressing the bow eye. In a crash or panic stop your whole rig will move forward, with the turnbuckle in place as the bow moves forward, the snubbing action of the turnbuckle pulls the bow down and stops it from going more than a few inches. In a crash you'll actually bend your trailer but, if nothing breaks the hull won't be coming up on top of you (you really have to see a boat sitting on top of the tow vehicle after flattening the vehicle's roof to see just how bad in can be....). Remember that straps (gunnel or stern) are only meant to keep the boat and trailer working as a single unit going down the road. Their only purpose is to keep the hull and trailer together as you hit bumps, etc.

For my current skiff (only 23 years old this summer) I came up with a different setup than the turnbuckle and chain I'd used on bigger boats. It's nothing more than wire cable attached to each side of the trailer, then attached to a bow hook with just enough length so that everything comes tight as the bow eye comes tight to the bow stop. Here's a pic of what I'm talking about....
[img][IMG]http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee111/lemaymiami/boatpics/trailerbridle.jpg
The cable strength used is exactly twice the heaviest expected load, it's fully adjustable and set up so that the anchoring ends on each side are to the rear of where the bow eye is when the hull is fully loaded on the trailer. It's a simple matter to adjust the "bow bridle" so that it comes tight at just the right point the first time you set it up. After that it's just a matter of attaching the bridle hook to the bow eye before everything comes tight as you load your boat onto the trailer. To launch you drop the hull a few inches to loosen the bridle, detach it, then drop the rig the rest of the way into the water. Remember the incident I mentioned when I snapped an axle? That bow bridle kept most of the hull still on top of the trailer - without it my hull would have completely separated and been damaged badly....

JRussell
03-10-2011, 09:58 AM
That's a nice system you have there and it would definitely help in an accident :thumbsup:, but you still need stern straps to keep the back end of the boat on the trailer. Without a stern strap the boat could theoretically flip over onto the tow rig, or a more likely scenario would be the rear end of the boat coming off the trailer to one side.

IMO you can never have too many straps/chains on a load and there's no such thing as overkill when it comes weight ratings. Heck, I use 4 10k lb straps to secure a 1300 lb Polaris Ranger to my trailer. :rofl:

lemaymiami
03-10-2011, 12:38 PM
The extras I've added are in addition to a gunnel strap that's kept in good condition. Your hull needs to be strapped down or your trailer will beat it to death on a bad road....

Kevin Desselle
03-10-2011, 01:24 PM
This is the best way I have found to install forward tie downs on aluminum trailers. 3/8” plate welded to the center of the beam just behind the bow eye.
http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p180/sporttrail/PA160050.jpg
http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p180/sporttrail/002-2.jpg

Bigger Hammer
03-10-2011, 02:40 PM
I use 4 sets of tie downs on my trailer, each consisting of a 10,000 lb ratchet strap attached to a 10,000 lb stainless tow hook.
Two come off either side of the bow eye at about a 45 degree angle, with the tow hooks mounted on the insides of the trailer beams. These will (hopefully) keep the boat from going forward.
The other two come off the aft eyes, and run forward to the tow hooks mounted on the trailer beams.
Fortunately I've never tested it.

rwidman
03-10-2011, 02:54 PM
In a perfect world

Straps stretch, they are never 100% tight.

I said "They may limit the motion but not completely stop it."

Without the stretch, you may pull something out of the boat or off the trailer. You want a little give.

A Few Dollars
03-10-2011, 03:59 PM
Without the stretch, you may pull something out of the boat or off the trailer. You want a little give.Hence

"They may limit the motion but not completely stop it."

A Few Dollars
03-10-2011, 04:15 PM
I use 4 sets of tie downs on my trailer,

I have 5 attachment points.

two - 2,000 lb transom straps
one - 1,200 lb bow tie down
one - safety chain
one - winch strap

horsepen
03-10-2011, 08:01 PM
On The Edge, I don't want to argue with you regarding the straps keeping a boat from moving forward on the trailer.....you can do all the math you want and present all the factual evidence you care to, but I can tell you from experience that the straps will not hold a boat from sliding forward. I had to do a panic stop and slid my boat forward about 2 inches. The whole winch stand slid forward on the tongue and the turnbuckle between the bow eye and the trailer stopped it as the boat's motion was forward and downward. The ratchet strap in the back kept the stern from lifting or coming around during the incident. Also, the shape of most hulls today causes the curved forward section to act like a ramp and ride up on the bow stop which is why so many of them wind up in the backs of pickup trucks.

A Few Dollars
03-10-2011, 08:14 PM
you can do all the math you want and present all the factual evidence you care to, but I can tell you from experience that the straps will not hold a boat from sliding forward.
:thumbsup:

baypro21
03-10-2011, 09:46 PM
As I scrolled down I noticed lemay has a much better picture, but I already copied my picture link so I will still post it. As previously mentioned the best way to keep the boat from moving forward is to anchor it with something angled back. This is a picture of my old rig. The 5/8" rope along with the electric winch brake keep it from moving back. If you look closely you can see my chain that attaches between the crossmember and the bow eye.
http://www.thehulltruth.com/members/baypro21-albums-baypro21-picture52494-picture-001.jpg

Hockleyneck
03-11-2011, 03:34 AM
I like the idea of a chain or heavy duty ratchet type straps, the only question is how to anchor. I will go see a guy who welds aluminum and see what he thinks, I always use a strap on the back that runs over the gunnel just behind the rear wheels. Thanks for the comments and pics.

JRussell
03-11-2011, 04:01 AM
On The Edge, I don't want to argue with you regarding the straps keeping a boat from moving forward on the trailer.....you can do all the math you want and present all the factual evidence you care to, but I can tell you from experience that the straps will not hold a boat from sliding forward. I had to do a panic stop and slid my boat forward about 2 inches. The whole winch stand slid forward on the tongue and the turnbuckle between the bow eye and the trailer stopped it as the boat's motion was forward and downward. The ratchet strap in the back kept the stern from lifting or coming around during the incident. Also, the shape of most hulls today causes the curved forward section to act like a ramp and ride up on the bow stop which is why so many of them wind up in the backs of pickup trucks.

Sounds like you had a single strap run over the gunwales?

marcus220
03-11-2011, 04:23 AM
On The Edge, I don't want to argue with you regarding the straps keeping a boat from moving forward on the trailer.....you can do all the math you want and present all the factual evidence you care to, but I can tell you from experience that the straps will not hold a boat from sliding forward. I had to do a panic stop and slid my boat forward about 2 inches. The whole winch stand slid forward on the tongue and the turnbuckle between the bow eye and the trailer stopped it as the boat's motion was forward and downward. The ratchet strap in the back kept the stern from lifting or coming around during the incident. Also, the shape of most hulls today causes the curved forward section to act like a ramp and ride up on the bow stop which is why so many of them wind up in the backs of pickup trucks. i agree with horsepen.imo,the turnbuckle is the best way to stop forward motion.i drilled a 5/8" hole through the trailer tongue and installed a galvanized round eyelet..then i connected a large turnbuckle to that and the bows eyelet.works pretty slick,and plenty rugged.not a problem removing it,just back off the two jam nuts and loosen.i do however,have a 3"ratchet strap near the stern on the gunnels {to the trailer}to prevent the boat from the stern from hopping off the trailer rollers when hitting a large pot hole.ps,i just got a picture{see attach.} off a trailer website.the bottom of the turnbuckle should not be mounted as you see it.it should be mounted directly to the trailer,THROUGH THE SIDE OF THE TONGUE,not to the winch post via a u-bolt.you might as well just rely{NOT}on the winch post to stop it.

Kamper
03-11-2011, 05:39 AM
You can make a "bra" or "halter" that slips over the bow and is fastenned somehere to the trailer frame. When I am going far from home I tie my dock lines to my trailer frame. I also use a 'transom saver' (let's not go off topic by discussing the pros/cons of that tool here though...), which adds some resistance to forward motion.

You need to keep in mind that whatever you use will not eliminate the forward momentum. If you stop abruptly that force will still travel up the line. I prefer nylon line over chain because it provides some shock absorbtion. I prefer multi-point restraints to spead the load around, relying on the bow eye and a cross-transom strap could see your boat slide under the strap and over-load the bow eye.

My 2cents.

Good luck!

lemaymiami
03-11-2011, 07:03 AM
One other minor point about winch stands that everyone should remember.... They're perfectly designed to withstand lots of force TO THE REAR. When all the force is going forward don't be surprised to find that a winch stand will fold so fast that you really won't like what happens a split second later....

rayteagarden1
03-11-2011, 08:30 AM
Boat firmly up against the goal posts.

Chains to stop forward motion also stop rearward motion.

Transom hold downs.

Possibly I could do more, however, when do you reach “overkill”?;?

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h211/rayteagarden/IMG_0940.jpg

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h211/rayteagarden/ATrollingMotor.jpg

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h211/rayteagarden/RayCharicture.jpg

WolfLLY
03-11-2011, 06:54 PM
LOL, at all the engineers in here.

commuter boats
04-11-2011, 04:58 PM
Old thread ( sort of) that was referenced in another thread.
In reference to the argument as to the effectiveness of a strap or chain that goes straight up from the trailer to an eye in controlling for an aft movement you must keep in mind that in that orientation the load that is applied to the chain or strap ( and where it's attached to the boat ) is much higher than it would be if the chain or strap was more in line with the load. It's my opinion that all of the examples shown would benefit by the trailer attaching point being farther aft.

glacierbaze
04-11-2011, 08:28 PM
It's not good math, and it's even worse physics. In a panic stop, there is going to be enough force to flex the fiberglass hull, the bunks, the carpet covering them, and the nylon straps, enough for the boat to move a good bit.
If your 'math' was accurate, you should be able to stand a steel beam on end, strap it vertically on each side, and not be able to push the top in either direction. How well do you think that would work?

That was a good point that the winch stand was designed to be pulled on, not pushed.

Trydent
04-11-2011, 08:41 PM
I run a 10,000lb ratchet strap over the bow and through the bow cleats and than I attach it to a cross member amidships on the trailer. I figure this strap will help reduce the load on the winch post in the event of a panic stop.



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