The Boating Forum - Kicker (Trolling) Motor + I/O Engine

THE HULL TRUTH is the world's largest FREE network for the discussion of Boating & Fishing. Whether you're researching a new boat, or are a seasoned Captain, you'll find The Hull Truth Boating & Fishing Message Forum contains a wealth of information from Boaters and Sportfishermen around the world.




Austin Williams
12-06-2010, 06:52 PM
Alright, so I know most of you are used to dealing with 30+ footers with inboard engines and don't have to worry about this, but I do..

I've got a 26' foot Trophy with an I/O and a Mercury Alpha One outdrive. I do a lot of trolling on the Great Lakes and I would like to add a small 9.9HP kicker motor for better fuel economy and control. I've been told to simply add a bracket from the outboard to the outdrive to be able to steer from the helm, but the engine has a power steering system basically rendering steering difficult to near impossible when the engine is off. Has anyone found a solution to this? If so, I'd be glad to hear it..

Austin.


JALICHTY
12-06-2010, 07:28 PM
Might consider a RemoteTroll bracket. Can be fitted to your boat and has electric steering via 20' cable or, I think remote control. Take a look at their site, remotetroll.com and see if you think might work. I have a bracket for sale that I used for 5 years after using another one for 17 years. PM me if you would like to discuss this further.

Austin Williams
12-06-2010, 07:39 PM
I've looked at that option, yes. However, for next season I would like to have autopilot installed on the boat so I'm not constantly at the controls while trying to fish, especially in large chop. I'm not sure that option would work with autopilot, unless you could link it to the steering wheel.


thataway
12-06-2010, 07:42 PM
The TR1 autopilot used to let you control the kicker. If you can still find one (I believe that the company was bought by Garmin)--that would work for you.

Austin Williams
12-06-2010, 07:44 PM
Really? I had no idea. Funny, that was the autopilot I was looking into as well. I'll do some more research.

Thanks,
Austin.

busanga
12-07-2010, 11:57 AM
an IO at troll speeds of 5knots will get about the same economy as the 9.9 kicker b/c the kicker will be running at just about full throttle and the IO will just idling....if you are trolling at very slow speed <3knts the kicker is more economical.....something to take into account if you decide to spend 3K + on a TR1 (very good AP by all accounts)

big easy
12-07-2010, 12:25 PM
I also troll the great lakes(Ontario),and run a T8 Yamaha kicker on my 23 Seacraft,and it also has power steering.It steers effortlessly with the I/O (350 mercruiser)off.
I know exactly what you're talking about as previously I had a 21 Trophy with a cobra drive and power steering.
It was almost impossible to steer with the I/O off.My right arm was like Popeyes.

When I restored the Seacraft,I went with a rotary steering system.The Trophy had a rack system,and maybe that's the reason it was terrible to steer.
I can only say that with the ROTARY system,I can turn the wheel with very little effort with the I/O engine off.
I have the kicker linked to the out drive with an EZ-Steer connector rod.

I thought about a TR-1 they are sweet but expensive.I made the decision to buy a Radar instead.For now steering is not an issue anymore thank god.

jetboat69
12-07-2010, 12:42 PM
I have the TR-1 auto pilot on my Yamaha T-8 with tilt. Best thing I ever added.
It is available from Garmin dealers and if you have it installed by a Garmin dealer they add on an additional year to the standard 1 year guarantee. I bought mine online for about $1800
and did my own install. The hardest part was finding a good location for the compass ball.
The TR-1 can be found on many boats here in the Pac NW that troll for salmon.
As far a I'm concerned this is the only way to go on a kicker.

Austin Williams
12-07-2010, 01:43 PM
an IO at troll speeds of 5knots will get about the same economy as the 9.9 kicker b/c the kicker will be running at just about full throttle and the IO will just idling....if you are trolling at very slow speed <3knts the kicker is more economical.....something to take into account if you decide to spend 3K + on a TR1 (very good AP by all accounts)

We've done the research and the kicker is a far more economical choice. In the great lakes the fastest you'd be trolling would be right around the 3-4knts range.

I know exactly what you're talking about as previously I had a 21 Trophy with a cobra drive and power steering.
It was almost impossible to steer with the I/O off.My right arm was like Popeyes.

I had the marina take a look at the steering system and they said they would be able to change it to a hydraulic steering system, which would allow me to install the TR-1 (as of now, it is not compatible with the steering) and that would probably allow me to run an E-Z steer bar to the kicker.

As far a I'm concerned this is the only way to go on a kicker.

I've heard nothing but good about the TR-1, another great thing being is that it should seamlessly integrate with my current electronics, which are Garmin's.

auguste
12-07-2010, 02:23 PM
I had a 26 Trophy dinette layout for a few years on Lake Ontario

I found that 9.9 was too small when going into a head wind

Traded it for a 15 and it worked great

busanga
12-07-2010, 02:41 PM
I had a 26 Trophy dinette layout for a few years on Lake Ontario

I found that 9.9 was too small when going into a head wind

Traded it for a 15 and it worked great

were you using the yamaha 9.9 high thrust ??

bridgeman
12-07-2010, 03:37 PM
http://www.marinetechproducts.com/pages/ElectroSteer/

Check out the T4...I have it on my 23 seacraft along with a trollmaster pro 3 it works great and costs way less

auguste
12-07-2010, 07:26 PM
were you using the yamaha 9.9 high thrust ??

Merc, not high thrust

Eyehooker
12-07-2010, 08:34 PM
I have trolled on Lake Erie since 1983 and many kickers and use many combinations--- the best and yes cost the most--- get a Yam T8 High thrust mount on Bobs kicker bracket control with TR Gold auto pilot This unit works great--- controls the boat and will troll down to 1.5 at present have the unit on 27 ft Sportscraft inboard mounted in the middle and 25ft Baha I/O mounted on port side I have a whole list of don't do--

Eyehooker
12-07-2010, 08:41 PM
Back again--when I say TR Gold-- that is the auto pilot for the kicker not the auto pilot for the I/O -- If I had to do it over again I would go with the TR Gold and forget going with a full auto pilot FYI----- they lower the limit to 4 eyes in 2011

Austin Williams
12-07-2010, 09:25 PM
Great suggestions, I'll look into them.

My main dilemma is the fact that I want autopilot on both the main engine and kicker motor for the occasional overnight and runs across the lake we do. I really don't want to drop $6000 for two autopilot systems.

Eyehooker
12-08-2010, 08:39 AM
I understand the problem--- If you already have HY steering just get Garmin GP 10 and hook the kicker to the O/D with easy steer-- FYI get the right length of easy steer otherwise it will come apart-If you have rotary steering starting looking for HY steering -- I would NOT recommend auto pilot with cable steering to steer kicker--HY steering will work with the main engine turned off---

jfcar
12-08-2010, 09:07 AM
I use a hydraulic pump to turn my 9.8 kicker with a toggle switch on the dash to steer it. After the boat is going straight I can steer with the outdrive if I'm only making wide turns. One quarter turn of the wheel normally does it. My neighbor and I made this, we used a hydraulic pump and cylinder out of a 1960 Corvair convertible since he had 2 laying around his garage for 30 years we though we would try it. This works great. I also fish Lake Erie and the 9.8 4 stoke is a great gas save, I can troll all day on 3 gallons of gas. If you like I can post some pictures.
John

Austin Williams
12-08-2010, 09:15 AM
I understand the problem--- If you already have HY steering just get Garmin GP 10 and hook the kicker to the O/D with easy steer-- FYI get the right length of easy steer otherwise it will come apart-If you have rotary steering starting looking for HY steering -- I would NOT recommend auto pilot with cable steering to steer kicker--HY steering will work with the main engine turned off---

Looking at it all now, hydraulic steering with an E/Z Steer bar is probably my best option. I'll do some more research but it seems like this is the simplest and cheapest way to go about rigging something like this up.

If you like I can post some pictures.

If you could, that would be awesome. I'm just looking to see if there is any easier ways to rig this up.

solarfry
12-08-2010, 10:01 AM
were you using the yamaha 9.9 high thrust ??

:thumbsup:

Get the high thrust or the right prop. Standard prop won't work well..

jfcar
12-08-2010, 10:03 AM
Pictures, I don't have any pictures with motor on bracket but you should get the idea. Also I can troll from 1 mph at idle too about 6 mph. I have 235WA Sea-Pro, weight about 4200 lbs. I also uses the io at idle and control speed with kicker when trolling into waves 4 ft and greater, a lot easer to keeping boat going straight. Thats a momentary switch with off in center.
John

busanga
12-08-2010, 10:41 AM
Eyehooker are you saying the autopilot on the IO will work with engine off (assuming HY steering) and have enough power to turn the outdrive and the outboard thru the EZ Steer.

Eyehooker
12-10-2010, 08:20 AM
I use a hydraulic pump to turn my 9.8 kicker with a toggle switch on the dash to steer it. After the boat is going straight I can steer with the outdrive if I'm only making wide turns. One quarter turn of the wheel normally does it. My neighbor and I made this, we used a hydraulic pump and cylinder out of a 1960 Corvair convertible since he had 2 laying around his garage for 30 years we though we would try it. This works great. I also fish Lake Erie and the 9.8 4 stoke is a great gas save, I can troll all day on 3 gallons of gas. If you like I can post some pictures.
John I have a friend the has 25 Pen Yan with 9.9 and has his engine fixed ie (tighten down so it will not turn) He steers with the main engine-- he tried a lot of combos but settled with the above -- JFCar method sounds like an idea if you don't want the expense of an auto pilot Just love Shade tree Mechanics :thumbsup:

Eyehooker
12-10-2010, 08:29 AM
Eyehooker are you saying the autopilot on the IO will work with engine off (assuming HY steering) and have enough power to turn the outdrive and the outboard thru the EZ Steer. Yes, it work w/o engine running especially if you have straight HY steering By this I mean no power steering pump on the engine---- some of the builders like BAHA leave the pump on the engine and just couple the hoses together--LOL the pump does nothing except circulate oil and eat up power---- maybe because they don't want to replace the belt on the engine some free HP here with removal of pump

Eyehooker
12-10-2010, 08:39 AM
jfcar--- what type of steering cylinder did you use? looks like one off small tractor ie John Deere-- like the pump from convertiable top--- lots of free ones around in junk yard--- I have cut out a kicker lifter bracket and need a steering cylinder to make it work--- Friends have Bob's Machine (40 HP max.) bracket w/ T-8 but over kill for small engine

JALICHTY
12-10-2010, 10:42 AM
Somewhere I have a picture or two of my RemoteTroll bracket set-up. Very easy to use and with a 20' cord, not limited to where you are in the boat, unless up in the bow for some reason or other. I was on a fishing boat in Alaska a while ago and it had an auto pilot on the kicker. Was really windy and eventually the captain took it off auto because the engine and pilot couldn't keep up with the wind and waves. Maybe this was his problem and not the auto-pilot, don't know. Send me a pm if you would like to see it.

jfcar
12-10-2010, 10:58 AM
I have no idea what the cylinder come off of. It is 12" long an has 7" of travel which is plenty. My neighbor had it in his garage. (worked in maintenance at GE for 30 years) he's in the Philippines for the winter right now. Here a picture of a identical cylinder.
John

Eyehooker
12-10-2010, 06:16 PM
thanks for info photos didn't come thur-- I stop at Mr Fuel when I go thur Youngstown on my way to Conneaut Oh

jfcar
12-10-2010, 07:15 PM
I live just off I-80 and Rt-11 intersection, if you would like to stop by and look at the setup let me know. I fish out of Lake Shore Park Ashtabula most of the time but also go to Conneaut and Geneva.
John

Austin Williams
12-10-2010, 07:48 PM
@jfcar - thanks so much for the pictures and suggestions, I think I have a slight idea on what the my best options are. You've been a big help.

PS, I absolutely love your side of the lake. I fish out of Erieau, near Leamington on the Canadian side. When we had our bigger boat, we'd always love to take a trip or two across to Ashtabula and surrounding areas - especially the islands. Great fishing on your side as well. I'm planning to take a few day fishing trip down there with my current boat sometime next year, should be a good time.

Eyehooker
12-11-2010, 08:46 PM
jfcar---- Almost started camping at Lake Shore Park when they were trying to close our camp ground 2 years ago--Presently at Lake City Community Park in Lake City, Pa but keep boat in Conneaut at dock B 52---- I come North from below Wheeling WV

jfcar
12-12-2010, 08:20 AM
Eyehooker-- I have a camper at Luoma's Surfer Point Campground (lake side off RT 531) in Saybrook, a lot of older fisherman their. I park the boat their and trailer it to where I'm going to fish. I'm retired and like to fish during the week when the ramps are not so busy.
John

The Teleflex Cable guy
12-16-2010, 09:26 AM
You could always use an Ezy Glide stick steering system for the 9.9 and not mess with the out drive at all.
They are out of Chiply Florida.

busanga
12-16-2010, 09:48 AM
You could always use an Ezy Glide stick steering system for the 9.9 and not mess with the out drive at all.
They are out of Chiply Florida.

How does that work is it just a pull and push lever to turn engine...looks like a pretty simple set up for steering a kicker where throttle is set most of time. only draw back is not AP friendly.

Masterblaster
03-31-2011, 06:09 AM
Trolling on kicker is always less expensive in the long run if you do your engine maintenance based on run time.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.2.0