The Boating Forum - Honda 130 HP 4 stroke

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ddelisle911
09-22-2010, 06:58 AM
Hello-
Looking to buy my 1st boat, sport cat 27 with 2 130hp Honda motors.
Any feed back on these motors would be appreciated!
Thanks


Sheffield
09-22-2010, 07:15 AM
I wouldn't! Those engines had/have ALOT of problems! Lots of recalls for new powerheads & everything else! You should do some research to see what I am talking about! Thought I would give you a "heads-up"!

jerryclaybrook
09-22-2010, 07:17 AM
I have one 1999 model with 950 hours. Runs great but I do have an alarm issue which sounds sometmes signaling overheat but all I do is restart and the problem goes away. It might be a bad sensor dealer isn't sure.I am currently replacing the impeller as a maintenance item as I bought the boat used last year and don't know when it was last replaced.


ddelisle911
09-22-2010, 07:17 AM
Thank you for the heads-up!

granpafish
09-22-2010, 07:27 AM
Do a full background on the motors in question. Honda did have a recall on the 130s in a certain year range. They repaired the ones that needed it and issued a 10 year extended warranty. I'm not aware of any other problems. We had one on a boat that we no longer have (moved up in size) and it never missed a beat. (it was in the year range and was recalled. No problem) The 130 is generally thought of as pretty bullet proof. The year of the motor is the key.

ddelisle911
09-22-2010, 08:16 AM
Thank you granpa...
To do a full background would require looking up the engine serial number and seeing if it would be on the recall list. Then try to find paperwork from one of the owners to see if the engine was repaired?
Thanks again!

JoeR2
09-22-2010, 08:22 AM
no go on the 130. They had to redesign it - it is now the honda 135. significant number of the 130's suffered from problems with cracked exhaust passages and cracks in the block. The problems seemed to be confined to a specific production run. You need to get the serial number off the engine(s) and check to see if they were the problematic ones. FYI, honda did replace a number of the blocks on the 130s, but I don't think the problem with the exhaust passages was ever formally addressed. One local honda mechanic told me that many of the 130s he sees have this issue.

granpafish
09-22-2010, 08:23 AM
Yes. The current owner should have the paperwork. Honda also has it on record. There is (was) a list of the serial numbers in that range on the web. It might even be on this site. I'm on a laptop and phone connection so it is a chore for me right now. :)
Honda is a terrific product so it is worth it to do the background to calm your fears if you like the boat.

ddelisle911
09-22-2010, 09:23 AM
Thank you everyone!

Dulcecita Lures
09-22-2010, 10:16 AM
I had one of the 130's with the block and head cracks. Honda replaced the entire powerhead. Motor always ran great for me, but other guys I know I had issues with cracked exhaust passages that allowed saltwater intrusion that caked up and clogged the entire exhaust system. Pic below.
http://members.cox.net/sburnett22/BF130EXH.jpg

The Nancy D
09-22-2010, 11:34 AM
The powerhead issues have been pretty well documented and the serial numbers that were effected are definitely on the site. My own experience with a 2002 BF130 has been very positive -- that said, I've only had it one season...

My feeling is that if your transom can handle the weight, it should be a pretty safe bet. Everything I’ve read/heard is that they are about as reliable as you can get. Corrosion may be and issue thought, but that is something you should be able to get a decent read on visually, I’d think.

gj2794
09-22-2010, 11:51 AM
From my experience it is almost all of the 130s. I am looking for a replacement for one with a cracked block and every motor I check is affected when I ask the dealer to look it up.

The Nancy D
09-22-2010, 12:29 PM
From a HondaDude 2003 post about the serial numbers recalled for the bad casting.

BF115: BZBD 1000001 - 1200270
BZBG 1000001 - 1200000

BF130: BZBE 1000001 - 1201321
BZBH 1000001 - 1200180

Hope this helps.

ddelisle911
09-22-2010, 01:00 PM
My serial numbers are:
BZBH1200182
BZBH1101600

It looks to me like the last serial # is on the recall.

Frank007
09-22-2010, 06:08 PM
I have had a number of problems with mine, but overall it is ok.

An oil tube cracked and had to be replaced. I ran across others who had this problem.

The steering arm and related parts are substantially rusted. I ran across others with this problem.

I am getting some water leakage through the exhaust that will be fixed over the winter. Per the comments above, others have had this problem.

You might get some additional information here:

http://www.marineengine.com/boat-forum/forumdisplay.php?21-Honda-Outboard-Forum

Gillotine
09-22-2010, 06:39 PM
I have one 1999 model with 950 hours. Runs great but I do have an alarm issue which sounds sometmes signaling overheat but all I do is restart and the problem goes away. It might be a bad sensor dealer isn't sure.I am currently replacing the impeller as a maintenance item as I bought the boat used last year and don't know when it was last replaced.

I had the same problem with my 99 130. Changed the thermostat - no more problem.

Monterey10
09-22-2010, 09:00 PM
I beleive that vintage of 115 and 130 were very heavy. Newer engines are considerably lighter.

Frank007
09-22-2010, 09:41 PM
You are right about the weight - the 130 weighs around 600 lbs.

KeyPineSavage
09-22-2010, 11:55 PM
Some misinformation here along with some good. Weight? The 130, from first year to last, weighed same, ranging from 495 to max 514 (depended on shaft length, etc.) No where near 600.

The steering arm rust does exist, on a bunch of Hondas, not just 130s, but it is only surface rust, nothing serious.

The block issues are described pretty well already. granpafish is giving you correct info about that.

Honda did not "have to" redesign the 130 and create the 135. That was part of their planned redo of the entire engine line, starting at the top (225) and working down. The 115-130 were redone, I think, around 2005 or maybe 2006. Last were the 90 and 75 about 18 months or so ago. The newer 115-135, BTW, weigh 478-492, so while a nice reduction, it's not that huge or anything.

mekell
09-23-2010, 03:37 PM
I must be living a charmed life as my pair have over 3000 hrs without a problem. They were inspected and given the 10 year warranty on the block. They run just as sweet as the day I bought em. What are the symtoms (sp)
of the exhaust problems? It would be good info for any future problems as I don't plan on replacing them until problems occur.

Dulcecita Lures
09-23-2010, 03:48 PM
Mekell - my buddy in Hawaii that had the exhaust problem with the pic I posted above said that his engine just seemed to lose power, wouldn't rev to full throttle, and eventually just kept dying. Makes sense - sorta like the old "potato in the tailpipe" trick. As the salt lumps grew within the exhaust, they just kept restricting exhaust flow to the point the engine wouldn't even run.

KeyPineSavage
09-23-2010, 04:35 PM
As the salt lumps grew within the exhaust, they just kept restricting exhaust flow to the point the engine wouldn't even run.


Dulcecita

You mentioned your own new warranty powerhead for the block cracking, but what did your buddy do with his? Did Honda step up (I"d think probably not) so did he fix, and if so do you remember (about) what it cost him?

Dulcecita Lures
09-23-2010, 04:54 PM
Key Pine - here's an old email from him - 2008. I'm not sure if Honda covered the original problem, although I think they did because his engine was still under warranty when the original problem occurred. He had no gripes with Honda and neither do I -- they did the right thing and stand behind their motors. The email will give you some other insights from someone that really runs one of these motors and puts serious hours on them.


It was on one of those good days, when I was cruising back to port, that I noticed a drop in engine rpm and we fell off plane. No problem, pushed the throttle up and got back on plane. But, when I went to WOT just outside the harbor to blow out some carbon my top end was only 5200 instead of the usual 5800 rpm. Whoops - looked like 2003 deja vu all over again! Remember when we were losing top end because of the crack in the cooling water passage letting water into the exhaust? When I got home I noticed a lot of oil residue around the bottom of the block, so pulled the dipstick and, lo and behold, found no oil visible on it. Now no alarms had gone off so I was hopeful there was still enough oil in the pan to keep things lubricated but the oil level for sure was low.

Compression and leakdown tests gave nothing but bad news, i.e. low compression and high leakage. The powerhead had to be pulled to replace the oil pump seals and pulling the head was a good news/bad news affair. The good news was that the block, head, and valves were fine with the cause of the low compression/high leakage being a blown head gasket. The real bad news was that the cooling water passages around the cylinders and in the water jacket were very badly clogged with scale, just like the exhaust port had been back in 2003. The head gasket likely blew because of excessive heat build up due to lack of cooling caused by the scale. The oil leakage turned out to be a blessing in disguise 'cause if that hadn't made us look at the engine, the overheating might have eventually damaged the block or head.

What caused all the scale? That's the real problem. It seems apparent to me that Honda poorly designed the cooling system on these 130s. There is insufficient cooling water flow to remove the heat normally generated by the motor when cruising/trolling at above a certain rpm. I don't know what that rpm threshold is but it's lower than 3000. In other words, there is enough water flow to cool the engine while it's running under load from idle on up to xxxx rpm. At xxxx+ rpm the motor starts to generate more heat than the cooling system can remove so eventually the cooling water starts to boil off at hot spots in the engine, leaving scale deposits which then further compound the problem.

Since we can't change out the exhaust manifold to improve flow or reduce back pressure, nor can we increase the volume of cooling water flow, the only practical solution is to more frequently flush the cooling system with a chemical descaler. Tell the guy who bought your old boat/motor to consider doing that, especially if he runs at 3000 rpm or more for extended periods of time. If he runs the boat at something less, he may be OK, but watch the temperatures if he's got a gauge or inspect for signs of excessive scale build up. Oh, it also seems the oil pump seals might wear out after 1500 or so hours so he should keep an eye out for leakage.

OK, enough gloom and doom. My engine's been repaired (not too costly) and I should be back on the water this weekend. Hope the fish are biting!

KeyPineSavage
09-23-2010, 05:26 PM
Dulcecita

Thanks much. Been considering a used 130 or 135. Maybe the new 135 is the way to go. Thanks again.

Frank007
09-23-2010, 06:10 PM
Some misinformation here along with some good. Weight? The 130, from first year to last, weighed same, ranging from 495 to max 514 (depended on shaft length, etc.) No where near 600.

The steering arm rust does exist, on a bunch of Hondas, not just 130s, but it is only surface rust, nothing serious.



Whoops, thanks for the catch on the weight.

Unfortunately, you are incorrect as to the rust. It is not just surface rust, the metal is flaking away in a couple portions of the steering mechanism area (I wish I could see a picture to describe it better, but I couldn't find a diagram on a quick search). After noticing the extent on my engine, I started looking and see it on other Honda 130s.

The hoses leading up to the telltale (engine pissing) connect at a plastic "T" and a few grains of sand frequently clog it up. I can't understand why they didn't use a "Y" fitting instead.

I agree that the engines were re-designed as Honda upgraded their line and not because there was a design flaw. In fact, many people have put thousands of hours on these engines without problems. This engine is a marine adaptation of the Civic engine, which has proven its extreme reliability in automotive applications.

Overall, they are very good engines and you just need to have a survey for known problems.

Disclaimer: My opinion may change significantly if the water leak around my exhaust turns out to be an expensive proposition. :bashhh:

KeyPineSavage
09-23-2010, 06:32 PM
Unfortunately, you are incorrect as to the rust. It is not just surface rust, the metal is flaking away in a couple portions of the steering mechanism area

Disclaimer: My opinion may change significantly if the water leak around my exhaust turns out to be an expensive proposition. :bashhh:

Frank

Yeah, that's why I didn't comment about the exhaust issues, because I know nothing about them. Hope yours turns out well.

About the steering arms, my 90 has quite a little (only rust on the entire engine, really) and it is only what I would call surface. Because of my own, I have sort of looked for it on other Hondas (of all sizes,) and that is what I have found. But I guess some must have gone quite a bit farther. Bad news, and I better do a little more extensive scraping on mine.

The Nancy D
09-24-2010, 04:03 AM
I had not heard of this exhaust issue in my prior searches on this motor. Is it a regional sort of occurrence (more likely to occur in warm southern waters or lakes)? Can someone offer insight on this de-scaler treatment or a way to assess if it needs to be done in the first place -- would a water pressure gauge be able to serve as an indicator? Thanks.

KeyPineSavage
09-24-2010, 05:47 PM
Nancy D

Yeah, I am sort of wondering too if it's just a one-of-a-kind issue or what. The block crack issue is well known, talked about everywhere, as is Honda's response, etc. This exhaust on is new to me, so will be interested to see what others have to say. Not to say Dulcecita's pal didn't have the problem, I'm sure he did, but more info would always help.

The Nancy D
09-25-2010, 06:26 AM
Yep -- everything I have read has pretty much been about the early run of failed blocks (which seems to have been addressed to universal satisfaction) and some varying levels of corrosion issues to the steering arms. This exhaust problem is new to me too and I'd love to get a little bit better understanding of the circumstances surrounding it. And, if more widespread, I'd love to know and do my best to head any future issues off at the pass. Up my way it seems there are tons of these motors running trouble-free, but maybe I am just assuming the trouble-free part of the equation...

mikeloew
09-25-2010, 06:50 AM
I think if you have all the numbers from both engines, and bring them to a Honda dealer, he can get any and all warrentee work ever done to those engines, it may have had the power head reaplaced at one time, the problem is if it was replaced with the same known head.

kaku
09-25-2010, 06:31 PM
i have 2004 honda 130's a little rust on steering arm computer went on recall i am second owner and honda replaced both no charge speaks volumes about honda no other problems

mekell
09-25-2010, 07:26 PM
Whoops, thanks for the catch on the weight.

Unfortunately, you are incorrect as to the rust. It is not just surface rust, the metal is flaking away in a couple portions of the steering mechanism area (I wish I could see a picture to describe it better, but I couldn't find a diagram on a quick search). After noticing the extent on my engine, I started looking and see it on other Honda 130s.

The hoses leading up to the telltale (engine pissing) connect at a plastic "T" and a few grains of sand frequently clog it up. I can't understand why they didn't use a "Y" fitting instead.

I agree that the engines were re-designed as Honda upgraded their line and not because there was a design flaw. In fact, many people have put thousands of hours on these engines without problems. This engine is a marine adaptation of the Civic engine, which has proven its extreme reliability in automotive applications.

Overall, they are very good engines and you just need to have a survey for known problems.

Disclaimer: My opinion may change significantly if the water leak around my exhaust turns out to be an expensive proposition. :bashhh:

I have the rust problem on the steering arms of my '99 models. I bought a 50 EFI last year and the sreering arm on it appears to be made of a different metal or either it has a heavy coat on it. Did they change to this for the late model higher HP models?

ddelisle911
09-28-2010, 09:20 AM
From a HondaDude 2003 post about the serial numbers recalled for the bad casting.

BF115: BZBD 1000001 - 1200270
BZBG 1000001 - 1200000

BF130: BZBE 1000001 - 1201321
BZBH 1000001 - 1200180

Hope this helps.
Hey Nancy D; I appreciate all your replies to my numerous threads. One of the engines is on the watch list that you posted. The engines have been here since new; no Honda dealers here in Honduras. How can I tell if this engine is OK? It has 650 hours on it. The serial # is BZBE1101600

Thanks again!

topcatnj
07-06-2011, 11:07 AM
Could use some suggestions please! Have a set of 130 Hondas that had a recall on the power heads replaced in 2003. Have the same issue now with Cracked Exhaust Passage due to rusting etc. How do you think I should handle going back to Honda for replacement of the defective parts? Bare in mind these are 1998 Engines with new power heads in 2003. Only about 900 hours on the motors. Thanks for any suggestions.

joeyd
07-06-2011, 01:29 PM
I have a 2002 with about 800 hours. Bought it new and have had no problems, in fact it has been a pleasure to own.

topcatnj
07-06-2011, 02:11 PM
Thanks but ours has not been a pleasure to own and I'm looking for suggestions on how to deal with this. Obviously there was a design and casting flaw but now to have the replaced power heads develop the same problem!

The Nancy D
07-06-2011, 02:45 PM
topcatnj: My understanding is that your replacement power head was given a 10-year extended warranty (whether the clock started ticking at 1998 or 2003, I do not know). More so, I don't know if that would cover the issue you have now, but it is worth a try, I guess. I suppose a dealer might be the usual route, but I'm sure the Honda Marine site has some sort of "contact us" thing on there. From everything I have heard, Honda is pretty good in terms of standing behind their product. Whether that good will lasts 13 years, I don't know.

I personally hope to get well more than 13 years out of our motor, but I also could understand someone in saying that is a decent run for an outboard. I believe the best warranty out there on your typical new motor is about 5 years -- after that, you are on your own.

Not sure if this helps...

topcatnj
07-06-2011, 03:01 PM
Thanks I appreciate the input. Sucks that we are dry docked on vacation and trying to run the dealer route with Honda at this time. Was hoping to find someone else that had the power head replaced under warranty and then had the same reoccurring issue.

We will start looking for new re-power quotes incase Honda does nothing. This is a 26' World Cat located in Virginia Beach used mostly for cruising, fishing the BBT, and a few offshore trips. At the end of the day I guess we will look for the best warranty, service available, and cost!

The Nancy D
07-06-2011, 03:06 PM
Yeah -- always easier to talk in theory than when it is your boat/motor that isn't working. It seems like many on here almost take them as being disposable, but a motor is an expensive proposition any way you cut it. I live in fear of the day ours' gives up the ghost....



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