Northeast - Closing

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boxer259
02-21-2010, 05:20 PM
The last sardine processing plant located in Mass will be closing down in
mid April due to catch restrictions on herring.Plant was 104 years old
Approx 114 people will be looking for a new line of work.Nova Scota may
be next.


RedSoxMan
02-21-2010, 05:26 PM
Sad.

bumster
02-21-2010, 05:31 PM
The last sardine processing plant located in Mass will be closing down in
mid April due to catch restrictions on herring.Plant was 104 years old
Approx 114 people will be looking for a new line of work.Nova Scota may
be next.
This is what happens when you take more than can be produced.


OnaRampage
02-21-2010, 05:36 PM
So what you're also saying is that every other species of fish that eats herring will actually start to have something to eat again? This is great news for everyone (well except for the few 114 people that will need to get another job).

bumster
02-21-2010, 06:58 PM
So what you're also saying is that every other species of fish that eats herring will actually start to have something to eat again? This is great news for everyone (well except for the few 114 people that will need to get another job).
I will now start on a rant about commercial fisherman.
In Fl we had commercial netters decimate the mullet stocks for decades. they fought every measure to control the decline. It got to the point that the mullet runs were half what they were 30 years ago. These commercial guys fought and received concessions to allow for longer nets with smaller openings because they could not make a living with the current configurations. Re read what i just wrote so it sinks in. LONGER NETS WITH SMALLER DIAMETER OPENINGS! they were fishing themselves out of a job and the answer was to take smaller fish. We are almost 20 years into the net ban and fishing gets better every year. Longliners are not allowed to fish the waters of the east coast (not sure about the exact distance) But you can actually catch Swordfish of the coast now. I have no love for these commercial guy s since they are their own worst enemy and they dont give a rats ass about the recreational fisherman who by the way contributes much more to the economy every year than the commercial interests do

triumphrick
02-21-2010, 07:13 PM
I will now start on a rant about commercial fisherman.
In Fl we had commercial netters decimate the mullet stocks for decades. they fought every measure to control the decline. It got to the point that the mullet runs were half what they were 30 years ago. I have no love for these commercial guy s since they are their own worst enemy and they dont give a rats ass about the recreational fisherman who by the way contributes much more to the economy every year than the commercial interests do

I fought very hard to have those same mullet netters banned back in 95- 96. All they accomplished for the many years they fished was to ultimately decimate the species they targeted. Along with mullet, they LEGALLY netted trout and mackerel. Their spotter planes would send the net boats out in front of huge schools of mackerel, netting most of them. Inshore, the short trout that were caught in their nets ended up on the flats, dead.

I mentioned the LEGAL fishery? From my house on LemonBay (intercoastal) in Englewood, they would make a set all the way across the canals. run two other boats zig zagging up the canals netting everything. They ran their boats to a truck and trailer waiting in the water at or near the ramps. There was no attempt to cull their catch, everything was taken.

I submitted numerous pictures to Karl Wickstrom, editor of Florida Sportsman magazine who headed the petition drive to ban the nets. Those pictures were of gutted mullet...hundreds and hundreds of them rotting at the ramps....missing was the roe that was paying $2 lb vs the .25 they would get for the mullet...

Yeah, they were really concerned about the fishery.....:(

bumster
02-21-2010, 07:30 PM
I fought very hard to have those same mullet netters banned back in 95- 96. All they accomplished for the many years they fished was to ultimately decimate the species they targeted. Along with mullet, they LEGALLY netted trout and mackerel. Their spotter planes would send the net boats out in front of huge schools of mackerel, netting most of them. Inshore, the short trout that were caught in their nets ended up on the flats, dead.

I mentioned the LEGAL fishery? From my house on LemonBay (intercoastal) in Englewood, they would make a set all the way across the canals. run two other boats zig zagging up the canals netting everything. They ran their boats to a truck and trailer waiting in the water at or near the ramps. There was no attempt to cull their catch, everything was taken.

I submitted numerous pictures to Karl Wickstrom, editor of Florida Sportsman magazine who headed the petition drive to ban the nets. Those pictures were of gutted mullet...hundreds and hundreds of them rotting at the ramps....missing was the roe that was paying $2 lb vs the .25 they would get for the mullet...

Yeah, they were really concerned about the fishery.....:(
I had a Z Car shop in Miami around that time and I always had a stack of petitions in my office and every customer that came in was asked if they were a registered voter and if so I had them sign it. I must have sent over 2000 of those petitions to Florida Sportsman so we could all get that amendment passed

triumphrick
02-21-2010, 07:38 PM
I had a Z Car shop in Miami around that time and I always had a stack of petitions in my office and every customer that came in was asked if they were a registered voter and if so I had them sign it. I must have sent over 2000 of those petitions to Florida Sportsman so we could all get that amendment passed

My first Z car I bought in 1970, serial number 380.....

My second, 1972 had a 280 block, triple Solex's, Konis, mulholland suspension and embarrassed Corvettes on our local autocross tracks..

Great cars!

bumster
02-21-2010, 07:52 PM
My first Z car I bought in 1970, serial number 380.....

My second, 1972 had a 280 block, triple Solex's, Konis, mulholland suspension and embarrassed Corvettes on our local autocross tracks..

Great cars!
72 240 with a 280zx turbo and a t-5 trans hooked to an 88 posi rear end. That car was fun to drive but I had to have at least a half tank of gas if I wanted to run it hard. Tokico adjustable suspension it was fast

PtJudeRI
02-22-2010, 12:54 PM
The last sardine processing plant located in Mass will be closing down in
mid April due to catch restrictions on herring.Plant was 104 years old
Approx 114 people will be looking for a new line of work.Nova Scota may
be next.

Im OK with this. Sad that they will have to job hunt at a bad time, but overall, this is good for the fish stocks. Less processing plants = Lower catch demand = More bait fish.

:thumbsup:

boatmanalso
02-22-2010, 03:56 PM
Im OK with this. Sad that they will have to job hunt at a bad time, but overall, this is good for the fish stocks. Less processing plants = Lower catch demand = More bait fish.

:thumbsup:

Oh brother:roll:roll:roll:roll:roll:roll:roll:roll:ro ll:roll:roll

bumster
02-22-2010, 05:16 PM
Oh brother:roll:roll:roll:roll:roll:roll:roll:roll:ro ll:roll:roll

You're not in favor of a tighter leash on commercial boats?

PtJudeRI
02-22-2010, 05:31 PM
Hold on here. Like I said. the 114 people that have to find new jobs is the worst part of this happening, but as far as the large scale commercial fishing industry and processing industry as a whole is concerned, I don't mind the shrinking. Look at where we are. There are commercial fisherman eeking out a living with terrible regulations that have them decimating stocks of fish, targeted and not. We have bureaucrats that understand nothing of biology making regulations on it, and we have rec fisherman caught in the middle. And we have international boats and our own processors taking unprecidented numbers of fish in one fell swoop. The best thing that can happen is for it all to just fall to the wayside.

I may stand on an island alone here, but I feel that fishing for national needs (supplying national chain restaurants, international needs, huge national chain markets) is not in the best interest of fish stocks. There is no biomass to support this. As of right now, fishing can support a regional effort. We are in a bad place with most of our fisheries right now. Tough times call for tough measures. Why should we keep moving forward at the same pace when there is no clear cut plan for management and rebuild??

We need to keep less today so there is some for tomorrow. Our economy can have a boom and bust, why not our fish biomass.

Don't pull that guilt trip on me Boatmanalso. All of the older folks at the dock talk about how the fishing "was so amazing 30 years ago". Well, guess what? The thinking over the past 30 years in sustainability and management has got us to where we are today.

boatmanalso
02-22-2010, 05:35 PM
You're not in favor of a tighter leash on commercial boats?

No. Commercial is reulated to the point where there is little effect if not no effect on the overall cycle.

You boys should pick on pollution wayyyyyyyyyyy before you rty to blame anythin on the commercial boats.

PtJudeRI
02-22-2010, 05:40 PM
No. Commercial is reulated to the point where there is little effect if not no effect on the overall cycle.

You boys should pick on pollution wayyyyyyyyyyy before you rty to blame anythin on the commercial boats.

I'll stick with longlines, trawlers and Mid-water pair trawlers. All indiscriminate harvesters that result in Hundreds of TONS of bycatch tossed back into the sea dead every year.

boatmanalso
02-22-2010, 05:42 PM
PtJude "the 114 people that have to find new jobs is the worst part of this happening "

How many jobs were those 114 supporting? There will be a domino effect when those jobs are lost.

This factory is a supplier of a food source. Pretty soon all you will be eating is imported food. A cycle of doom is being created in this country. Catch on to it.

bumster
02-22-2010, 05:56 PM
No. Commercial is reulated to the point where there is little effect if not no effect on the overall cycle.

You boys should pick on pollution wayyyyyyyyyyy before you rty to blame anythin on the commercial boats.
So if its not the commercials then why in Florida when the nets were banned did the mullet, redfish , trout and snook stocks rebound and why off the south Florida coast when the long liners were banned did the swordfish stocks rebound? Start with the guys that take all the fish. if it were pollution as you say where are the bodies? Dude you're full of crap

PtJudeRI
02-22-2010, 06:00 PM
PtJude "the 114 people that have to find new jobs is the worst part of this happening "

How many jobs were those 114 supporting? There will be a domino effect when those jobs are lost.

This factory is a supplier of a food source. Pretty soon all you will be eating is imported food. A cycle of doom is being created in this country. Catch on to it.

Those 114 jobs, on average, support 2 people, not jobs; totalling upwards of 342 affected people including the employees of the plant. I am, as are many here, a small business owner and read the data that comes out.

Im not trying to pick a fight with you here, but I have to say that the current commercial fishing climate is the cycle of doom that you speak of. When was the last time you saw cod inshore? Shrimp from the Gulf? Frostfish (tommycod)? Have you been lamenting the fluke limits? catch many mackerel of size outside the GOM?? See the closures of river run herring? Catch an eel? There is your cycle of doom. Its happening now!

OnaRampage
02-22-2010, 06:13 PM
I feel bad for the 114 people without jobs, but unless their arms and legs fell off at the same time, they should (with a little bit of effort) be able to get new jobs. I realize times are tough, I really do (I'm feeling it too), but there is work out there if you hustle. Glad to see the efforts have worked in Florida. Hope that they will someday up here too. Gill netting, purse seining, long lining rape the ocean. And if you think that commercial fishermen can't be their own worst enemy, think a little harder (and clearer). If the herring and other bait fish have the chance to rebound then other stocks may have the chance to also.

Bruce H
02-22-2010, 06:17 PM
Is this cannery in MA or ME?

PtJudeRI
02-22-2010, 06:58 PM
Massachusetts

boatmanalso
02-23-2010, 12:53 PM
Those 114 jobs, on average, support 2 people, not jobs; totalling upwards of 342 affected people including the employees of the plant. I am, as are many here, a small business owner and read the data that comes out.

Im not trying to pick a fight with you here, but I have to say that the current commercial fishing climate is the cycle of doom that you speak of. When was the last time you saw cod inshore? Shrimp from the Gulf? Frostfish (tommycod)? Have you been lamenting the fluke limits? catch many mackerel of size outside the GOM?? See the closures of river run herring? Catch an eel? There is your cycle of doom. Its happening now!


It is only by catch because of regulation changes. Most stuff could have been sold. I would blame polution before I blamed commercial boats catching a couple hundred lbs of something. Recs can keep more of some stuff than those commercial boats.

boatmanalso
02-23-2010, 01:13 PM
NMFS

destroying fisherman and their communities since 1976

Where are all the fish cutting houses in Boston?????

bumster
02-23-2010, 01:20 PM
It is only by catch because of regulation changes. Most stuff could have been sold. I would blame polution before I blamed commercial boats catching a couple hundred lbs of something. Recs can keep more of some stuff than those commercial boats.
You must have commercial ties. That would be the only explanation for your view. I'm sure there is a market for fingerling reds and trout someplace so why not sell them and then the commercials could get even smaller nets and just take every dam fish they can right? Its than kind of thinking that got the nets banned in Fl by everyone except the commercial interests. 70% of voters shut those idiots down because they cant be counted on to do the right thing

PtJudeRI
02-23-2010, 02:48 PM
It is only by catch because of regulation changes. Most stuff could have been sold. I would blame polution before I blamed commercial boats catching a couple hundred lbs of something. Recs can keep more of some stuff than those commercial boats.

What pollution are you talking about???? Where are these dead fish washing up on shore in tons as they die???

Recs can keep more than the commercial boats. Really? You are going to stand on that? Did you chuckle to yourself as you wrote that? You must be the best fisherman in Mass if you believe that. You are telling me that a rec fisherman (in a whole season)can catch more Fluke, cod, tuna, or other groundfish than a commercial dragger can grab in their whole season?? :rofl::rofl::rofl: How about in a month of commercial fishing. I think not there too...

Im sorry, i just shot beer out of my nose as I reread that, give me a second to compose myself. :trout:

Ok. Im back... Lets revisit this nonsense. If commercial boats are "catching a couple hundred pounds" of something, they can't even afford to leave the dock. They rely on economies of scale. So many TONS of fish, at a certain price per lb. , offset the cost of fuel, bait/gear, and wages to go to sea and turn a profit. No profit=no fuel = no leave the dock. I still see these guys out, so they are making their margin.

Just what do you call reality, and can I get an invite there???

boatmanalso
02-23-2010, 02:53 PM
You must have commercial ties. That would be the only explanation for your view. I'm sure there is a market for fingerling reds and trout someplace so why not sell them and then the commercials could get even smaller nets and just take every dam fish they can right? Its than kind of thinking that got the nets banned in Fl by everyone except the commercial interests. 70% of voters shut those idiots down because they cant be counted on to do the right thing

I'm saying that regulations is the reason why the fishermen throw dead fish overboard .Some are acceptable and some are just plain dumb. I can't imagine there are a heck of a lot of fishermen out there that want to catch guppies in the net and sell them. If for some reason they do catch them, they shouldn't have to throw them overboard due to regulation. I'm sure the guy would rather make the money and not let whatever it is go to waste.

bumster
02-23-2010, 03:20 PM
I'm saying that regulations is the reason why the fishermen throw dead fish overboard .Some are acceptable and some are just plain dumb. I can't imagine there are a heck of a lot of fishermen out there that want to catch guppies in the net and sell them. If for some reason they do catch them, they shouldn't have to throw them overboard due to regulation. I'm sure the guy would rather make the money and not let whatever it is go to waste.
They throw them overboard because nets and longlines don't discriminate. If they can start to make money on undersize fish then the nets get smaller I know this ive seen it happen. It was one of the largest issues here in Florida netters claimed they couldn't make their quota so NMFS let them get away with smaller mesh. It got to the point where the fish were just disappearing. Your thought process is flawed boatman like I said you must have commercial interests. Thats really the only thing that would support your view here. Those guy RAPE the ocean and you agree with their methods. What does that make you?
Not many topics I am willing to get into a pissing match over but this is one of the very few.

boatmanalso
02-23-2010, 03:33 PM
"They throw them overboard because nets and longlines don't discriminate."

exactly. so it is the regulation that forces the boat to throw back a 20lb cod. there are already regulations in place for mesh size etc. The small catch is limited. The few remaining boats cannot catch enough of anything to hurt the main stocks. There are quotas anyway. When they reach the quota ,they go in. The quota is small. I think they can only catch 800ls of cod a day. I even hear of 200 lb limits. So if you catch the limit, they really can't try to catch something else because they will have to throw the already filled limt species overboard dead and then you get some clown complaining about it. then if they keep it they face fines and get called poachers. Its a loose loose and go broike scenario. All over really stupid regulations. all this stuff is a food sorce. How many people are going to be feed with 800lbs of gross weight of cod?

bumster
02-23-2010, 03:45 PM
The small catch is the problem. Those are the BABY fish that dont grow up. Listen you can squawk all you want the simple fact is this. Everyplace in florida has better fishing due to the commercial guys getting kicked the hell out. They take more than their share and cry when fishing is bad and yet they are the very cause of the bad fishing. As stated earlier you can now catch Swordfish of the Fl coast, you can catch redfish in numbers, you can catch trout in numbers and size. Spew whatever you want but you cant change reality and reality is less commercial equals more fish.

boatmanalso
02-23-2010, 03:59 PM
I don't know anything abouty Fl so I can't say.. I know a little about the NE so I know it is foolish regualations. All NMFS has been doing since 1976 is ruin fishing families and their communities.

Their share is the general publics share. Not everyone can go out and catch a fish to eat. They rely on commercial fishermen to do that. When a commercial guy catches a swordfish it goes to a auction house and creates jobs. It then gets shipped to a cutting house . More jobs. It gets cut. More jobs. Then it gets shiped to a store and the store sells it to many people.
What happens to a swordfish if you a recreational catches one?? How selfish is that?

bumster
02-23-2010, 04:49 PM
I don't know anything abouty Fl so I can't say.. I know a little about the NE so I know it is foolish regualations. All NMFS has been doing since 1976 is ruin fishing families and their communities.

Their share is the general publics share. Not everyone can go out and catch a fish to eat. They rely on commercial fishermen to do that. When a commercial guy catches a swordfish it goes to a auction house and creates jobs. It then gets shipped to a cutting house . More jobs. It gets cut. More jobs. Then it gets shiped to a store and the store sells it to many people.
What happens to a swordfish if you a recreational catches one?? How selfish is that?

You take and take and take and take pretty soon there is no more then what happens to the jobs? OH sorry what just happened. thats what happens to your jobs. You cant take fish at a rate the surpasses reproduction and growth, This is something that you commercial guys have never understood. Obviously the restrictions were not tight enough. Look back at the how the regulations have always been stacked against the fish. Dont feel bad Japan is doing the same thing. Their regulations are non existent so they cant even fish in their own waters anymore they are also our biggest importer so really we are not even catching the fish for ourselves we catch and send it out of the country. You can keep going but you're wrong. You don't have to admit it all you have to do is keep going. the fish stocks are crumbling dude and it's not from the recreational fisherman catching a dozen fish on the weekend and if you think it is then , well then you need to pull your head out of the sand and see reality. Problem is you are the typical commercial guy and it can be put right in your face and you will still stick to your flawed thinking. I have personally seen the destruction the commercial guys have done, You have not. I know more about this from first hand experience than you will ever know. you don't want to open your eyes. Don't open them but you pretending that the commercial guys are not at fault for their industry collapsing doesn't change the fact that they are.

boatmanalso
02-23-2010, 05:08 PM
lol The boats that are left couldn't possably take enough fish to counter the reproduction rate. What can happen is polution can kill the hatch so only a partical reproduction cycle is allowed. The mesh size is designed to only catch large fish. You hae been mislead and present facts wrongfully. People with common sense laughed at global warming. People with common sense also laugh at the insinuation there is no fish in the ocean and a commercial guy catching 800 lbs is wiping out some species. That is 200 , 40lb fish. Recs catch way more so if commercial is bad , rec is worse.

bumster
02-23-2010, 05:32 PM
lol The boats that are left couldn't possably take enough fish to counter the reproduction rate. What can happen is polution can kill the hatch so only a partical reproduction cycle is allowed. The mesh size is designed to only catch large fish. You hae been mislead and present facts wrongfully. People with common sense laughed at global warming. People with common sense also laugh at the insinuation there is no fish in the ocean and a commercial guy catching 800 lbs is wiping out some species. That is 200 , 50lb fish. Recs catch way more so if commercial is bad , rec is worse.
Pollution is killing the hatch? HA HA HA HA HA Thats what the netters here used to say. Funny thing is, when they left so did the pollution. The pollution is commercial gear. Mesh size changes look up the regs from the 70's and look at the mesh size and take a look at mesh size today. It's smaller so that the catch can be increased with smaller fish. As I said I know more about this than you ever will. As for your earlier comment about fish going to families that cant fish. Problem is that more and more of those families are not in the US. Do you know where almost all of our Giant BF tuna go? Japan So don't try to say that these guys are feeding our country because they don't. thats another lie that you commercial guys like to say to try and keep the decimation going. Best thing for a commercial fisherman to do is wake up and realize that he is working himself out of the industry but you're not smart enough to do that.
You keep going but every rec angler knows that the commercial fisherman has never been able to police his industry and never will. That is why the fisheries are being shut down. If you guys had your way you would fish a species into extinction and them move on because you have no common sense and you don't realize that the catch is down because you're killing the species quicker than they can reproduce now if you want o try and sell the "It's Pollution " crap go ahead but to sell that pant load you're gonna need to lower the price

boatmanalso
02-23-2010, 05:45 PM
the netters got it from the state. I'm pretty sure the mesh size in the 70s was not larger than now. It sounds like you are just making stuff up. Its illegal to keep smaller fish so why would they try to catch them? You are getting silly now. Those tuna you claim that go to Japan??? You do know why? Why would you be concerned who is buying fish anyway?

"If you guys had your way you would fish a species"

I don't catch fish commercialy .... I catch fish recreationaly

bumster
02-23-2010, 05:54 PM
the netters got it from the state. I'm pretty sure the mesh size in the 70s was not larger than now. It sounds like you are just making stuff up. Its illegal to keep smaller fish so why would they try to catch them? You are getting silly now. Those tuna you clain that go to Japan??? You do know why? Why would you be concerned who is buying fish anyway?

"If you guys had your way you would fish a species"

I don't catch fish commercialy .... I catch fish recreationaly
yeah I'm making stuff up. Regs change and the commercial lobbyist use to have a much stronger voice. If you doubt what I'm saying go to the Florida Sportsman site and look in the old archives they spent a few years working on banning the nets in these waters.
You are the one who brought up the fact that these guys are putting fish on the table of families that cant afford to fish here. I don't "Claim" they go to Japan everyone knows that the Japanese are the largest group of buyers for BF. Are you gonna call me a liar on that fact too? lol. When you start spending days on the water wondering why you're not catching like you use to you can chalk it up to pollution if it makes you happy you will be wrong but as long as you're happy everything is OK. Keep pretending that the fisheries in most of our waters are not overfished but you are gonna be the minority.

"Pretty sure" and "Sounds like" in your comment tells everyone you don't know what you're talking about
At least you stopped trying to sell the pollution argument. LOL

boatmanalso
02-23-2010, 06:04 PM
Yes I brought up commercial fishermen catch fish for those who can't. I did not discriminate against Japanese families. I don't recall saying,"guys are putting fish on the table of families that cant afford to fish here" So I guess its easy to understand why you are so confused about so much. If you can't remember what you read a few posts ago, I doubt anything else you believe has any real merit behind it.

bumster
02-23-2010, 06:11 PM
Yes I brought up commercial fishermen catch fish for those who can't. I did not discriminate against Japanese families. I don't recall saying,"guys are putting fish on the table of families that cant afford to fish here" So I guess its easy to understand why you are so confused about so much. If you can't remember what you read a few posts ago, I doubt anything else you believe has any real merit behind it.
My mistake I figured when you meant "General Public" you were referring to people in this country. I made that assumption because you have so much love for the commercial fisherman in this country that are gonna lose their jobs (boo hoo hoo) Anyone can look at your post and have no doubt that you're clueless

boatmanalso
02-23-2010, 06:19 PM
You are plenty silly tonight!

bumster
02-23-2010, 06:21 PM
You are plenty silly tonight!

Must be all this pollution in the water killing the fish that makes me talk common sense.

y'sguy
02-24-2010, 01:46 AM
Hold on here. Like I said. the 114 people that have to find new jobs is the worst part of this happening, but as far as the large scale commercial fishing industry and processing industry as a whole is concerned, I don't mind the shrinking. Look at where we are. There are commercial fisherman eeking out a living with terrible regulations that have them decimating stocks of fish, targeted and not. We have bureaucrats that understand nothing of biology making regulations on it, and we have rec fisherman caught in the middle. And we have international boats and our own processors taking unprecidented numbers of fish in one fell swoop. The best thing that can happen is for it all to just fall to the wayside.

I may stand on an island alone here, but I feel that fishing for national needs (supplying national chain restaurants, international needs, huge national chain markets) is not in the best interest of fish stocks. There is no biomass to support this. As of right now, fishing can support a regional effort. We are in a bad place with most of our fisheries right now. Tough times call for tough measures. Why should we keep moving forward at the same pace when there is no clear cut plan for management and rebuild??

We need to keep less today so there is some for tomorrow. Our economy can have a boom and bust, why not our fish biomass.

Don't pull that guilt trip on me Boatmanalso. All of the older folks at the dock talk about how the fishing "was so amazing 30 years ago". Well, guess what? The thinking over the past 30 years in sustainability and management has got us to where we are today.

YOU ARE 100% CORRECT -The dragging must also be stopped even more. Years ago they stayed on sand and mud now with big rollers they can go over most any ledge out there .Most if not all are stripped of growth and almost flattened out like they were plowed and discked . When the herring "mid water seiners" season would open the day before there would be bait and fish on top of Jeffries next day like a desert . Mid water my ass they go right to the bottom .

boatmanalso
02-24-2010, 04:55 AM
"YOU ARE 100% CORRECT -The dragging must also be stopped even more. Years ago they stayed on sand and mud now with big rollers they can go over most any ledge "

You mean you agree 100%? Since stjude isn't right but is allowed to have a opinion, you can agree with him. You may have been one of the many who were sucked in by the way NMFS presented their information. That was there goal to get the general public to take their side. It was more like job security just like the Global warming hoax. Drageers were using rollers before NMFS was in exsistance back in 1976.
"They" How many were they? Nobody want to use numbers. They 1000S compared to now?? 100s. The who fishing fleet probably isn't catching what the best dozen trips were way back. There is no comparison to the effort then to now. About the only thing that might compare is yellowtail sold for 25 cents a lb last year... Is anyone here getting paid the same they did 25 years ago for the same work while have expenses way up.

bumster
02-24-2010, 05:15 AM
"YOU ARE 100% CORRECT -The dragging must also be stopped even more. Years ago they stayed on sand and mud now with big rollers they can go over most any ledge "

You mean you agree 100%? Since stjude isn't right but is allowed to have a opinion, you can agree with him. You may have been one of the many who were sucked in by the way NMFS presented their information. That was there goal to get the general public to take their side. It was more like job security just like the Global warming hoax. Drageers were using rollers before NMFS was in exsistance back in 1976.
"They" How many were they? Nobody want to use numbers. They 1000S compared to now?? 100s. The who fishing fleet probably isn't catching what the best dozen trips were way back. There is no comparison to the effort then to now. About the only thing that might compare is yellowtail sold for 25 cents a lb last year... Is anyone here getting paid the same they did 25 years ago for the same work while have expenses way up.
Hmmm maybe it's the declining fish stocks that are putting these guys out of business. You are so out of touch and yet you will keep arguing your flawed point of view. Now its a conspiracy? Your post is right on the mark "The who fishing fleet probably isn't catching what the best dozen trips were way back." Should we assume you meant "whole"?

PtJudeRI
02-24-2010, 03:57 PM
Well, looks like I missed a day of good back and fourth here... although if boatmanalso could get a solid argument together it wouldn't look like a Tyson fight.

Just two years ago, The Fisherman magazine published a photo of a dragger deck COVERED with fluke from one trawl and depicts the crew shoveling the dead fish over the side as they were predominantly juveniles. I myself, while chunking for bluefin (hoping for my ONE keeper fish as opposed to the purse seiner that netted 72 giants in one shot) have seen draggers sweep the area for whiting and other groundfish, not only beating the shit out of the mudhole (RI), but leaving a trail of dead juvenile "floaters" behind them that we scooped for bait. Additionally, the inshore draggers from Pt. Judith to Westerly RI did so much damage to the repairing eel grass beds in search of fluke, that we had a "green tide" on the beaches for almost a solid week!

And if you don't know the value of eel grass beds as estuaries for juvenile marine life, you are solidly out of touch.

This take take take mentality and the poor science of commercial fishing technology and management has put commercial fishing in the peril it is, and their MASS CATCHES are the reason that stocks are plummeting. Obviously tied to commercial fishing, you need to reevaluate the source of your data and take a long hard look at landing reports, bycatch estimates, and shrinking biomass data.


Below are relevant links from posters here, the aformentioned purse seiner thread, as well as a recent article in RI Monthly and a link to the photographs used in the shoot that show plenty of bycatch.

http://www.thehulltruth.com/northeast/147605-seiner-wrapped-up-72-giant-bluefin-tuna-cape-cod-bay-today.html

http://www.thehulltruth.com/northeast/184908-lack-midwater-trawls-helps-new-england-stocks.html

http://www.thehulltruth.com/northeast/148551-midwater-herring-trawlers-back-area-1a-starting-tomorrow-10-1-a.html

http://www.rimonthly.com/Rhode-Island-Monthly/December-2009/Breaking-Point/

http://markhamstarrphotography.com/ES2.html

bumster
02-24-2010, 04:22 PM
Well, looks like I missed a day of good back and fourth here... although if boatmanalso could get a solid argument together it wouldn't look like a Tyson fight.

Just two years ago, The Fisherman magazine published a photo of a dragger deck COVERED with fluke from one trawl and depicts the crew shoveling the dead fish over the side as they were predominantly juveniles. I myself, while chunking for bluefin (hoping for my ONE keeper fish as opposed to the purse seiner that netted 72 giants in one shot) have seen draggers sweep the area for whiting and other groundfish, not only beating the shit out of the mudhole (RI), but leaving a trail of dead juvenile "floaters" behind them that we scooped for bait. Additionally, the inshore draggers from Pt. Judith to Westerly RI did so much damage to the repairing eel grass beds in search of fluke, that we had a "green tide" on the beaches for almost a solid week!

And if you don't know the value of eel grass beds as estuaries for juvenile marine life, you are solidly out of touch.

This take take take mentality and the poor science of commercial fishing technology and management has put commercial fishing in the peril it is, and their MASS CATCHES are the reason that stocks are plummeting. Obviously tied to commercial fishing, you need to reevaluate the source of your data and take a long hard look at landing reports, bycatch estimates, and shrinking biomass data.


Below are relevant links from posters here, the aformentioned purse seiner thread, as well as a recent article in RI Monthly and a link to the photographs used in the shoot that show plenty of bycatch.

http://www.thehulltruth.com/northeast/147605-seiner-wrapped-up-72-giant-bluefin-tuna-cape-cod-bay-today.html

http://www.thehulltruth.com/northeast/184908-lack-midwater-trawls-helps-new-england-stocks.html

http://www.thehulltruth.com/northeast/148551-midwater-herring-trawlers-back-area-1a-starting-tomorrow-10-1-a.html

http://www.rimonthly.com/Rhode-Island-Monthly/December-2009/Breaking-Point/

http://markhamstarrphotography.com/ES2.html

You are wasting your time! He will never get it and all you're going to do is get him going so he can spew his BS on how it's pollution, not overfishing that is decimating the fish stocks

boatmanalso
02-24-2010, 04:28 PM
You are wasting your time! He will never get it and all you're going to do is get him going so he can spew his BS on how it's pollution, not overfishing that is decimating the fish stocks

Who siad there are no fish?

bumster
02-24-2010, 04:31 PM
HE"S BACK and in stealth mode again also

PtJudeRI
02-24-2010, 04:38 PM
Yikes! he snuck up on us!

boatmanalso
02-24-2010, 04:51 PM
HE"S BACK and in stealth mode again also

I never left stealth mode.

You never answered what you do with all your swordfish you now catch

bumster
02-24-2010, 04:55 PM
I never left stealth mode.

You never answered what you do with all your swordfish you now catch You never asked. Now that you have when we go out for swords there is usually 4 of us on the boat and we keep one fish. Most nights we get at least one but on occasion have got 2 to the boat and lost another. Since you asked

boatmanalso
02-24-2010, 05:03 PM
"You never asked" well actually I did.. post#30. Just wodeiring if you think there is no fish , why are you keeping fish?

bumster
02-24-2010, 05:14 PM
"You never asked" well actually I did.. post#30. Just wodeiring if you think there is no fish , why are you keeping fish?
Did you read the post about how the swords have made a remarkable recovery after the Longliners were thrown out? did you get that part? I am trying to figure out your point and its clear you have none. You just like to argue back and forth. You have a hard time accepting your point has been flawed since the start. You have switched from pollution is the problem to it's a conspiracy. News flash, It's neither! Its called overfishing by commercial interests you are entitled to your flawed opinion and you can join your commercial brothers in crying to the powers that be that your lively hood is being taken away through no fault of your own, Yeah yeah I know you're not a commercial fisherman. Thats what you say but its obvious that it is your view. Everywhere the commercial guys have been banned the fishery rebounds. Its a fact and that fact alone makes your point of view unbelievable

bumster
02-24-2010, 05:16 PM
Make way for Boatmanalso's very predictable response of BS

boatmanalso
02-24-2010, 05:25 PM
Did you read the post about how the swords have made a remarkable recovery after the Longliners were thrown out? did you get that part? I am trying to figure out your point and its clear you have none. You just like to argue back and forth. You have a hard time accepting your point has been flawed since the start. You have switched from pollution is the problem to it's a conspiracy. News flash, It's neither! Its called overfishing by commercial interests you are entitled to your flawed opinion and you can join your commercial brothers in crying to the powers that be that your lively hood is being taken away through no fault of your own, Yeah yeah I know you're not a commercial fisherman. Thats what you say but its obvious that it is your view. Everywhere the commercial guys have been banned the fishery rebounds. Its a fact and that fact alone makes your point of view unbelievable

so you are saying since the commercial guys aren't allowed to catch in your area, they now are caught by yourself and people like you. so instead of a lot of people eating swordfish ,only you and 3 buddies can now. the fish are still caught. I still maintain some fish are effected by pollution but don't see the difference between you catching swordfish or a commercial guy catching swordfish.

bumster
02-24-2010, 05:31 PM
so you are saying since the commercial guys aren't allowed to catch in your area, they now are caught by yourself and people like you. so instead of a lot of people eating swordfish ,only you and 3 buddies can now. the fish are still caught. I still maintain some fish are effected by pollution but don't see the difference between you catching swordfish or a commercial guy catching swordfish.
I catch one on a rod and reel they drop 20 miles of line and thousands of hooks. They catch swords,sails, mako sharks and kill everything that is hooked. You're not really this dense are you? Are you so dense that you cant see a problem with a group fishing a species to extinction.As in my previous post Your BS has become predictable you have no real argument other than to oppose reality. so sad

boatmanalso
02-24-2010, 05:38 PM
I catch one on a rod and reel they drop 20 miles of line and thousands of hooks. They catch swords,sails, mako sharks and kill everything that is hooked. You're not really this dense are you? Are you so dense that you cant see a problem with a group fishing a species to extinction.As in my previous post Your BS has become predictable you have no real argument other than to oppose reality. so sad

How can a commercial guy fish swords to extinction and you are still catching them. whats the difference if a commercial guy catches a 1000 fish or recreational catch 1000 fish? the fish are still being caught. Efficency has nothing to do with whether the fish are takin. It is actually more eco firenly to have one boat go catch then then a 1000 boats go catch one each.

bumster
02-24-2010, 05:41 PM
I still maintain some fish are effected by pollution but don't see the difference between you catching swordfish or a commercial guy catching swordfish.
You don't see the difference? Sorry it came to this. You're an idiot! I actually have to stop responding to you after that comment. If you cant see the difference between 4 guys fishing and keeping a single fish once a month or so and a longliner dropping 20 miles of gear you are to far below my intelligence level. sorry lol

bumster
02-24-2010, 05:43 PM
I still maintain some fish are effected by pollution but don't see the difference between you catching swordfish or a commercial guy catching swordfish.
You don't see the difference? Sorry it came to this. You're an idiot! I actually have to stop responding to you after that comment. If you cant see the difference between 4 guys fishing and keeping a single fish once a month or so and a longliner dropping 20 miles of gear you are to far below my intelligence level. sorry lol:banghead:

boatmanalso
02-24-2010, 05:48 PM
You don't see the difference? Sorry it came to this. You're an idiot! I actually have to stop responding to you after that comment. If you cant see the difference between 4 guys fishing and keeping a single fish once a month or so and a longliner dropping 20 miles of gear you are to far below my intelligence level. sorry lol

now you add once a month... you sound like one of them flip floppers... always changing the story to suit your needs....

I can't believe you are the only one who goes out and catches swordfish. What does it cost for a sword fish tag?

PtJudeRI
02-24-2010, 06:08 PM
How can a commercial guy fish swords to extinction and you are still catching them. whats the difference if a commercial guy catches a 1000 fish or recreational catch 1000 fish? the fish are still being caught. Efficency has nothing to do with whether the fish are takin. It is actually more eco firenly to have one boat go catch then then a 1000 boats go catch one each.

CAN YOU SEE WHAT I AM TYPING:


COMMERCIAL FISHERMAN POSSESS THE TACKLE TO OUTFISH ANY REC FISHERMAN 100 TO 1

Soooo... lets say I fish every day and get my one fish... In a week I will have 7... How many do you think the long liner has assuming we fish the same area at the same time????

You can have 1000 rec boats go out, and the hookup rate will be NO WHERE NEAR 100%. Now you are on eco friendly?? Remember, that downeast with a diesel you have spits out PLENTY of particulate matter as well as Nitrogen Oxides. So you are as equally friendly as the rest of us.

PtJudeRI
02-24-2010, 06:11 PM
I'm with Bumster. I said earlier I didn't want to pick a fight, but you are a retard when it comes to fisheries management and basic math.

PtJudeRI
02-24-2010, 06:13 PM
Go sit in a corner and think about what you did, then, when you realize you have no #%(&% idea what you are talking about, go here are read

http://www.noreast.com/discussion/TopicList.cfm?forum_ID=27

boatmanalso
02-24-2010, 06:15 PM
CAN YOU SEE WHAT I AM TYPING:


COMMERCIAL FISHERMAN POSSESS THE TACKLE TO OUTFISH ANY REC FISHERMAN 100 TO 1

You can have 1000 rec boats go out, and the hookup rate will be NO WHERE NEAR 100%. Now you are on eco friendly?? Remember, that downeast with a diesel you have spits out PLENTY of particulate matter as well as Nitrogen Oxides. So you are as equally friendly as the rest of us.

Now you think a commercial boat burns more fuel an hour than 1000 pleasure boats???? You guys are giving more reasons to ban rec fishing and only allow commercial fishing. whos side are you on?

ps ,, and you talk about my basic math???????

PtJudeRI
02-24-2010, 06:21 PM
We are talking about FISH here. You keep bringing up pollution (never answered what kind or where from), # of boats, and fuel economy ( I would venture that the average boat of 50' will burn what 10 boats do in a day... and #2 or bunker fuel too)

Will you stay on topic here??? Moron. :banghead::banghead::banghead:

PtJudeRI
02-24-2010, 06:23 PM
Now you think a commercial boat burns more fuel an hour than 1000 pleasure boats???? You guys are giving more reasons to ban rec fishing and only allow commercial fishing. whos side are you on?

ps ,, and you talk about my basic math???????


Where did I say that??? I DONT MENTION FUEL BURNS. Quote where I did.

boatmanalso
02-24-2010, 06:30 PM
We are talking about FISH here. You keep bringing up pollution (never answered what kind or where from), # of boats, and fuel economy ( I would venture that the average boat of 50' will burn what 10 boats do in a day... and #2 or bunker fuel too)

Will you stay on topic here??? Moron. :banghead::banghead::banghead:

I'm just following your lead.. the topic is herring plant closes. If you want to take the topic to who knows where , I can follow. the whole picture makes the whole presentation you make appear you have know idea what you are talking about. Pollution is a part of the puzzel. You are only aiming at a easy target in the commercial boats when they are not the major problem. They are no more of a problem than a the recreationfishermen. As I said , I catch fish recreatioally and I don't sell fish. But I am aware mant people use commercial boats as a scapegoat for the reason they can't catch fish.

boatmanalso
02-24-2010, 06:35 PM
Where did I say that??? I DONT MENTION FUEL BURNS. Quote where I did.


You put up the senario that 1000 boats can't catch what 1 commercial boat does. Eco friendly entered the thread. If you don't look at the whole picture you may have a one sided opinion .Your opinion may appear as if you have blinders on.

PtJudeRI
02-24-2010, 06:53 PM
You put up the senario that 1000 boats can't catch what 1 commercial boat does. Eco friendly entered the thread. If you don't look at the whole picture you may have a one sided opinion .Your opinion may appear as if you have blinders on.

NO, you had eco-friendly enter the thread. Im talking CATCH NUMBERS. FISH CAUGHT. This started as a SARDINE Closure, not herring (that would be the RED HERRING you are thinking of) which then led to an offshoot of jobs lost, which went to commercial fishing. A logically linked progression of linked industries.

Ok, lets go species by species. Fluke- 2 fish over 21" person/day Stripers-2 Fish over 28" person/day Bluefin 1 Fish 47-72" per day. 1 fish over 73" per YEAR.

Commercial (I'll go with commercial rod & reel, they catch the least) 50lbs. of fish 14" or over 3 days a week. Bluefin Tuna (assuming a Gen Cat. permit) 3 fish over 73" per DAY.

Dragger permit limits are much higher, as are scallopers (license for a scalloper is close to $750,000 if you can buy one) and Purse seiners.

Lastly:

I will ask you for a 3rd time. WHAT POLLUTION ARE YOU SPEAKING OF. I want chemicals, sources, and ocean areas affected.

GerryRM3
02-24-2010, 06:57 PM
Filling in saltwater wetlands, polution, overfishing available stocks, all contribute to the problem of declining fish population.
The marshes were the incubators for small fish and breeding grounds for many forms of sea life. The bigger fish fed on those smaller ones and so on and so forth on up the chain.
Polution has reduced the reproductive ability to an extent when the young can't survive and the algie blooms feed on the polution, further reducing the productivity of an area.
Overfishing stocks is self explanitary. You catch everything available and you don't have the numbers spawning to maintain the stocks.
There is no one single thing that is causeing the problem. Its all of them together.

PtJudeRI
02-24-2010, 07:08 PM
Gerry, I understand what you are saying, and I have alluded to the estuaries in a past post. but a good amount of research, even research from PEW, has stated that the levels of active pollutants have dropped over the past 70 years or so, and naturalist efforts have reclaimed many areas very well. boatmanidiot here has been claiming pollution as a major factor in stock reduction, and while there may be levels of pollutants present, there is nothing strong enough in this area to make that accusation. Internationally may be be another story, but we are talking NE

PtJudeRI
02-24-2010, 07:18 PM
Keep grasping at those straws dimwit! Let's see if you can link biomass stocks to the uptick in Canadian hockey fans. I'll see what you come up with tomorrow.

boatmanalso
02-25-2010, 05:14 AM
Keep grasping at those straws dimwit! Let's see if you can link biomass stocks to the uptick in Canadian hockey fans. I'll see what you come up with tomorrow.

"
The Hudson River, the second largest estuary on the east coast is a major spawning ground for striped bass. Since data is scarce, it’s difficult to estimate recruitment (a survival rate measurement) in the Hudson River alone, but most scientist estimate that 30 to 40 percent of total striped bass population comes from this region. The striped bass spawning area in the Hudson River stretches approximately 60 miles from New York Harbor to West Point, New York. It is important to know that the actual spawning area of striped bass is fairly limited because they require a certain water salinity range (3 to 7 parts per thousand) to insure larval survival. In addition, the spawning area is limited due to pollution.
Commercial harvest of striped bass has not occurred in the Hudson since 1976. At that time, the New York Department of Environmental Conservation issued a health warning against eating striped bass from this fishery because of elevated polychlorinated biphenyl (PCB) concentrations in their tissue. There is extensive industrial development along this waterway, and a large quantity of PCB’s had been discharged to the Hudson River from electrical equipment manufacturers. Though this is no longer the practice, these chemicals ("PCB" represents the acronym of more than 100 compounds) are very persistent in the environment with a high potential for accumulation resulting in increased cancer rates and other serious health issues for humans and other species.
The discharges of PCB’s to the estuary resulted in concentrations of 5 to 10 times the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) action level of 2 ug/g in the fish tissue. The results of modeling conducted by scientists from Manhattan College indicated that under a no-action scenario, the average PCB concentration in the striped bass in the mid and lower estuary would decline below FDA level by 1995. However, the modeling exercise did not take into account that system supports two separate populations of striped bass: the resident population, which stays within the estuary system year round, and the migratory population, which visits it only for few weeks in the summer months.
Recent data obtained by the New York State Department of Environment Conservation showed that the concentrations of PCB’s in tissue of 2- to 5 year old striped bass in the middle-lower estuary declined from 3.5 (1988) to about 1.6 ug/g (1996). These results represent an average value for all striped bass caught in middle-lower estuary. Recent discovery allowing separation between migratory and resident striper populations based on strontium to calcium ratio in the otolith (a lose head bone) brought another interesting twist to the PCB issue. The PCB concentrations in the resident population in the middle-upper estuary has been considerably higher and were consistently above the FDA action level than in those stripers that migrate to the ocean. Although decline of PCB concentrations in striped bass tissue is real, it appears to be still too early for commercial harvest, since the majority of caught fish will represent resident fish with significant human health risk.

boatmanalso
02-25-2010, 05:33 AM
Keep grasping at those straws dimwit! Let's see if you can link biomass stocks to the uptick in Canadian hockey fans. I'll see what you come up with tomorrow.

", some fish and shellfish contain higher levels of mercury that may harm an unborn baby or young child's developing nervous system. The risks from mercury in fish and shellfish depend on the amount of fish and shellfish eaten and the levels of mercury in the fish and shellfish. Therefore, the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) and the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) are advising women who may become pregnant, pregnant women, nursing mothers, and young children to avoid some types of fish and eat fish and shellfish that are lower in mercury.

By following these three recommendations for selecting and eating fish or shellfish, women and young children will receive the benefits of eating fish and shellfish and be confident that they have reduced their exposure to the harmful effects of mercury.
Do not eat Shark, Swordfish, King Mackerel, or Tilefish because they contain high levels of mercury.
Eat up to 12 ounces (2 average meals) a week of a variety of fish and shellfish that are lower in mercury.

Five of the most commonly eaten fish that are low in mercury are shrimp, canned light tuna, salmon, pollock, and catfish.
Another commonly eaten fish, albacore ("white") tuna has more mercury than canned light tuna. So, when choosing your two meals of fish and shellfish, you may eat up to 6 ounces (one average meal) of albacore tuna per week.

Check local advisories about the safety of fish caught by family and friends in your local lakes, rivers, and coastal areas. If no advice is available, eat up to 6 ounces (one average meal) per week of fish you catch from local waters, but don't consume any other fish during that week. "

PtJudeRI
02-25-2010, 05:36 AM
"
The Hudson River, the second largest estuary on the east coast is a major spawning ground for striped bass. Since data is scarce, it’s difficult to estimate recruitment (a survival rate measurement) in the Hudson River alone, but most scientist estimate that 30 to 40 percent of total striped bass population comes from this region. The striped bass spawning area in the Hudson River stretches approximately 60 miles from New York Harbor to West Point, New York. It is important to know that the actual spawning area of striped bass is fairly limited because they require a certain water salinity range (3 to 7 parts per thousand) to insure larval survival. In addition, the spawning area is limited due to pollution.
Commercial harvest of striped bass has not occurred in the Hudson since 1976. At that time, the New York Department of Environmental Conservation issued a health warning against eating striped bass from this fishery because of elevated polychlorinated biphenyl (PCB) concentrations in their tissue. There is extensive industrial development along this waterway, and a large quantity of PCB’s had been discharged to the Hudson River from electrical equipment manufacturers. Though this is no longer the practice, these chemicals ("PCB" represents the acronym of more than 100 compounds) are very persistent in the environment with a high potential for accumulation resulting in increased cancer rates and other serious health issues for humans and other species.
The discharges of PCB’s to the estuary resulted in concentrations of 5 to 10 times the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) action level of 2 ug/g in the fish tissue. The results of modeling conducted by scientists from Manhattan College indicated that under a no-action scenario, the average PCB concentration in the striped bass in the mid and lower estuary would decline below FDA level by 1995. However, the modeling exercise did not take into account that system supports two separate populations of striped bass: the resident population, which stays within the estuary system year round, and the migratory population, which visits it only for few weeks in the summer months.
Recent data obtained by the New York State Department of Environment Conservation showed that the concentrations of PCB’s in tissue of 2- to 5 year old striped bass in the middle-lower estuary declined from 3.5 (1988) to about 1.6 ug/g (1996). These results represent an average value for all striped bass caught in middle-lower estuary. Recent discovery allowing separation between migratory and resident striper populations based on strontium to calcium ratio in the otolith (a lose head bone) brought another interesting twist to the PCB issue. The PCB concentrations in the resident population in the middle-upper estuary has been considerably higher and were consistently above the FDA action level than in those stripers that migrate to the ocean. Although decline of PCB concentrations in striped bass tissue is real, it appears to be still too early for commercial harvest, since the majority of caught fish will represent resident fish with significant human health risk.

You really need to cite your sources and not cut and paste other peoples work.

http://www.flyfishsaltwaters.com/jop.htm

But lets pull a few quotes you copied.

"There is extensive industrial development along this waterway, and a large quantity of PCB’s had been discharged to the Hudson River from electrical equipment manufacturers. Though this is no longer the practice, these chemicals ("PCB" represents the acronym of more than 100 compounds) are very persistent in the environment with a high potential for accumulation resulting in increased cancer rates and other serious health issues for humans and other species."

"PCB’s in tissue of 2- to 5 year old striped bass in the middle-lower estuary declined from 3.5 (1988) to about 1.6 ug/g (1996)"

"Although decline of PCB concentrations in striped bass tissue is real, it appears to be still too early for commercial harvest, since the majority of caught fish will represent resident fish with significant human health risk." -So this is limited to non-migratory Hudson river stripers, not the fish that you and I see...

Do you have your own thoughts on this or did you just look for a dreaded PCB article on one species?? And while the science here is sound, don't you think that the spread of UDS (Ulcerative Dermatitis) in the Chesapeake and Hudson stocks is more contentious and threatening than the PCB's (which really only harm us when we eat the fish)

PtJudeRI
02-25-2010, 05:47 AM
", some fish and shellfish contain higher levels of mercury that may harm an unborn baby or young child's developing nervous system. The risks from mercury in fish and shellfish depend on the amount of fish and shellfish eaten and the levels of mercury in the fish and shellfish. Therefore, the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) and the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) are advising women who may become pregnant, pregnant women, nursing mothers, and young children to avoid some types of fish and eat fish and shellfish that are lower in mercury.

By following these three recommendations for selecting and eating fish or shellfish, women and young children will receive the benefits of eating fish and shellfish and be confident that they have reduced their exposure to the harmful effects of mercury.
Do not eat Shark, Swordfish, King Mackerel, or Tilefish because they contain high levels of mercury.
Eat up to 12 ounces (2 average meals) a week of a variety of fish and shellfish that are lower in mercury.

Five of the most commonly eaten fish that are low in mercury are shrimp, canned light tuna, salmon, pollock, and catfish.
Another commonly eaten fish, albacore ("white") tuna has more mercury than canned light tuna. So, when choosing your two meals of fish and shellfish, you may eat up to 6 ounces (one average meal) of albacore tuna per week.

Check local advisories about the safety of fish caught by family and friends in your local lakes, rivers, and coastal areas. If no advice is available, eat up to 6 ounces (one average meal) per week of fish you catch from local waters, but don't consume any other fish during that week. "



and lets have at it with this one too...

http://www.epa.gov/fishadvisories/advice/#info

but, you didn't cut and paste the definition.

1. What is mercury and methylmercury?

Mercury occurs naturally in the environment and can also be released into the air through industrial pollution. Mercury falls from the air and can accumulate in streams and oceans and is turned into methylmercury in the water. It is this type of mercury that can be harmful to your unborn baby and young child. Fish absorb the methylmercury as they feed in these waters and so it builds up in them. It builds up more in some types of fish and shellfish than others, depending on what the fish eat, which is why the levels vary.

So, naturally occurs, or pollution... in this day and age, I would go with the former as a consistent contributor, and the latter as a heavy metal holdover from years past when no one knew better. Most thermometers now even did away with mercury in favor of red-dyed alcohol.

boatmanalso
02-25-2010, 06:06 AM
"Though this is no longer the practice,"

Yes, I am aware that PCBs are no longer dumped into the Hudson River.

The big picture remember????You will always have a narrow minded opinion if you look at everything with blinders on.

Just because there have been clean up efforts and dumping has stopped it doesn't mean all PCBs are gone.

boatmanalso
02-25-2010, 06:11 AM
and lets have at it with this one too...

http://www.epa.gov/fishadvisories/advice/#info

but, you didn't cut and paste the definition.

1. What is mercury and methylmercury?

Mercury occurs naturally in the environment and can also be released into the air through industrial pollution. Mercury falls from the air and can accumulate in streams and oceans and is turned into methylmercury in the water. It is this type of mercury that can be harmful to your unborn baby and young child. Fish absorb the methylmercury as they feed in these waters and so it builds up in them. It builds up more in some types of fish and shellfish than others, depending on what the fish eat, which is why the levels vary.

So, naturally occurs, or pollution... in this day and age, I would go with the former as a consistent contributor, and the latter as a heavy metal holdover from years past when no one knew better. Most thermometers now even did away with mercury in favor of red-dyed alcohol.

Have at it in what respect? Are you saying toxic levels by FDA standards are ok in some fish and shellfish?? I'm missing your point...

PtJudeRI
02-25-2010, 06:40 AM
Read the definition. While Mercury was introduced by man's hand in years past, it is also... wait for it... Naturally Occuring! As stated in the EPA's literature. Soooo. even in every last particle of man made mercury was removed, it will still be present in the bodies of fish, people, and other animals via nature itself.

Your point on "toxic levels" refers, in your quote, to infants and pregnant women only not all people. The same groups of people that can't eat peanut butter and honey.

PtJudeRI
02-25-2010, 06:42 AM
I feel like someone is firing spitballs at me. This is so frustrating. Like watching a midget try and reach the top shelf at the supermarket.

You're not gonna get there pal. Just hang it up.

boatmanalso
02-25-2010, 06:54 AM
Read the definition. While Mercury was introduced by man's hand in years past, it is also... wait for it... Naturally Occuring! As stated in the EPA's literature. Soooo. even in every last particle of man made mercury was removed, it will still be present in the bodies of fish, people, and other animals via nature itself.

Your point on "toxic levels" refers, in your quote, to infants and pregnant women only not all people. The same groups of people that can't eat peanut butter and honey.

"even in every last particle of man made mercury was removed"

All you are proving is you are not capable of coming up with appropriate conclusions. Maybe you had too much toxic levels in your system as a infant .

I'm not sure why you would say Toixic levels of PCBs in some fish and shell fish are comparable to peanut butter or honey. I didn't know peanut butter and honey had high levels of PCBs in them?

After a quick seach it appears peanut butter which was found to have high levels of PCBs were recalled. So there has been cases where peanut butter isn't safe to eat either

PtJudeRI
02-25-2010, 07:14 AM
Ok, that's it. I'm done. I cant take it, my body is beginning to twitch involuntarily. :banghead:

Go run for politics. With the bad inferences, missed connections, and issue skirting, you belong there. Actually, even better, why not get a job at the NEMFC? There you can preach your philosophy to your hearts content.

You win. Fish populations are steadily decreasing from Recreational Fisherman, rising levels of Mercury and PCB's, and me raping the ocean from April till October. The only bastion of sense and enlightenment is the commercial fishing industry which shepards the ocean in its time of need.

BACKTOTHESEA
02-25-2010, 07:18 AM
Ok, that's it. I'm done. I cant take it, my body is beginning to twitch involuntarily. :banghead:

Go run for politics. With the bad inferences, missed connections, and issue skirting, you belong there. Actually, even better, why not get a job at the NEMFC? There you can preach your philosophy to your hearts content.

You win. Fish populations are steadily decreasing from Recreational Fisherman, rising levels of Mercury and PCB's, and me raping the ocean from April till October. The only bastion of sense and enlightenment is the commercial fishing industry which shepards the ocean in its time of need.

PJ, you finally realized you can't fix stupid. It's like trying to reason with a six year old why it is better to eat your vegetables than a candybar.

boatmanalso
02-25-2010, 07:22 AM
I feel like someone is firing spitballs at me. This is so frustrating. Like watching a midget try and reach the top shelf at the supermarket.

You're not gonna get there pal. Just hang it up.


I'm sure most people who are capable of making good conclusions don't have to resort to name calling as you having been over these couple days just because they can't present information that would support their opinion in a realistic way. All you are doing and have been doing is showing you cannot make a acceptable conclusion with a broard range of information.

I can understand now why you feel threatened by a commercial boat catching a few fish in a net . Seeing 75 fish all at once is alot more than one fish at the end of your pole.

loligo
02-25-2010, 07:49 AM
I will now start on a rant about commercial fisherman.
In Fl we had commercial netters decimate the mullet stocks for decades. they fought every measure to control the decline. It got to the point that the mullet runs were half what they were 30 years ago. These commercial guys fought and received concessions to allow for longer nets with smaller openings because they could not make a living with the current configurations. Re read what i just wrote so it sinks in. LONGER NETS WITH SMALLER DIAMETER OPENINGS! they were fishing themselves out of a job and the answer was to take smaller fish. We are almost 20 years into the net ban and fishing gets better every year. Longliners are not allowed to fish the waters of the east coast (not sure about the exact distance) But you can actually catch Swordfish of the coast now. I have no love for these commercial guy s since they are their own worst enemy and they dont give a rats ass about the recreational fisherman who by the way contributes much more to the economy every year than the commercial interests do

You are a f'n moron. Fishing in fl is screwed. Where are all the shrimp crabs and clams that used to be inshore? aaand the mullet is not as good as it was before. Development in FL is and was far and away more damaging than "comm'l fishing". Assholes like you are what is wrong with everything, thinking you are doing good and you have no f'n clue what you are talking about. You are a pox on our society and your ilk should be neutered at birth.

loligo
02-25-2010, 08:03 AM
You must have commercial ties. That would be the only explanation for your view. I'm sure there is a market for fingerling reds and trout someplace so why not sell them and then the commercials could get even smaller nets and just take every dam fish they can right? Its than kind of thinking that got the nets banned in Fl by everyone except the commercial interests. 70% of voters shut those idiots down because they cant be counted on to do the right thing

The net ban was one of the worst things that ever happened in Floridas fishing history. Inshore fishing is nothing compared to what it was before the net ban.

The voters were spoon fed a deceitful anti fishing campaign boght and paid for by assholes like you in the for profit recreational fishing industry and by all the folkls who wanted the last thing really keeping the rest of Florida from being paved and painted. The TV ads were all lies and this has been proven and you know it. The FWC is an illegal branch of FL government, bought and paid for by assholes like you and the CCA.



F YOU!

bumster
02-25-2010, 10:52 AM
You are a f'n moron. Fishing in fl is screwed. Where are all the shrimp crabs and clams that used to be inshore? aaand the mullet is not as good as it was before. Development in FL is and was far and away more damaging than "comm'l fishing". Assholes like you are what is wrong with everything, thinking you are doing good and you have no f'n clue what you are talking about. You are a pox on our society and your ilk should be neutered at birth.
LOL You're an idiot and the reason abortion should stay legal.

y'sguy
02-25-2010, 11:14 AM
lol you're an idiot and the reason abortion should stay legal.
I see why you're pissed.lol you're a commercial guy. I have no sympathy for you or you're partners in crime. Florida doesn't want you so stay in cape cod and strip the waters of fish there. Of course the rec guys will throw you out of that area after awhile. If you really wanna cuss me out asshole come on down and let me teach you a lesson you will never forget. Hell bring some of your commercial buddies with you. We haven't been able to kick the crap out of commercial guys since the 90's

you are a good man bumster

CMEBoston
02-25-2010, 11:18 AM
Bumster, Why erase the rest of your comment?

I love the Priveleged Elitest recreational fisherman.

Originally Posted by bumster http://www.thehulltruth.com/cb/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.thehulltruth.com/northeast/267793-closing-5.html#post2810292)
lol you're an idiot and the reason abortion should stay legal.
I see why you're pissed.lol you're a commercial guy. I have no sympathy for you or you're partners in crime. Florida doesn't want you so stay in cape cod and strip the waters of fish there. Of course the rec guys will throw you out of that area after awhile. If you really wanna cuss me out asshole come on down and let me teach you a lesson you will never forget. Hell bring some of your commercial buddies with you. We haven't been able to kick the crap out of commercial guys since the 90's

bumster
02-25-2010, 11:31 AM
Bumster, Why erase the rest of your comment?

I love the Priveleged Elitest recreational fisherman.
It was one of those things where I should have settled down first then posted. I refuse to get dragged into a debate with a commercial fisherman because they think of only themselves. Thats why Fl got rid of the netters. They took mullet by the thousands stripped them of row and dumped the carcases. They can try to justify their actions but when you pull the stunts that they pulled in Fl i have no sympathy for any of them. they need to learn how to play well with others. Since you quoted my earlier post if they wanna come down feel free.we are all here

CMEBoston
02-25-2010, 11:39 AM
Just an FYI, I am "they" but I do not choose to get into an internet argument, only following along.
I have been on both sides of the net so to speak, My family was supported by the commercial fishing industry since I was born. I have great respect for commercial fisherman and do not belive you can soley blame them. My Father spent many days away from his family providing fish for the whole country, not just him and his freinds.
You will always have poachers, in commercial and recreational fishing.
I chose a different path when I was out of school and now rely on both the commercial and recreational boating industries to earn my living. someone has to catch fish to support the USA's appetite for seafood. if it is not the local draggerman its an international processing ship. I would rather see the little guy earn a living that packaged fish sticks coming off of a processor ship.

bumster
02-25-2010, 11:53 AM
Just an FYI, I am "they" but I do not choose to get into an internet argument, only following along.
I have been on both sides of the net so to speak, My family was supported by the commercial fishing industry since I was born. I have great respect for commercial fisherman and do not belive you can soley blame them. My Father spent many days away from his family providing fish for the whole country, not just him and his freinds.
You will always have poachers, in commercial and recreational fishing.
I chose a different path when I was out of school and now rely on both the commercial and recreational boating industries to earn my living. someone has to catch fish to support the USA's appetite for seafood. if it is not the local draggerman its an international processing ship. I would rather see the little guy earn a living that packaged fish sticks coming off of a processor ship.

Maybe you are one of the few. I can recall seeing the mackerel boats with spotter planes circle an ENTIRE school and take every single one. This is not right and I will never change my view. A gill netter stretching a net from one side of a canal to another and take everything in his net. That includes juveniles, snook, redfish, small snapper you name it they took it. the mullet were gutted stripped of roe and left rotting. This kind of behavior is what gets the commercial fisherman in the shit they are in now. It is now possible to catch trout in Biscayne Bay. This is something that has only occurred since the late 90's. this
fishery was dead until the nets were gone! Swordfish, In the early 80's they had the last Swordfish tournament in Miami, 30-50 boats over two days. Not a single Sword was caught now you can go out and actually catch at least one sword on a given night and the only difference is the absence of long line boats. Thats the only difference unless of course you count an ocean that is slightly more polluted now than it was 30 yrs ago. you bring up the USA's appetite for seafood thats generous of you except we export an exceptionally large amount of OUR seafood. Hell the shark population is in really bad shape and I know i dont eat shark or shark fin soup. What happens to the sharks that are targeted and caught?

boatmanalso
02-25-2010, 11:59 AM
It was one of those things where I should have settled down first then posted. I refuse to get dragged into a debate with a commercial fisherman because they think of only themselves. Thats why Fl got rid of the netters. They took mullet by the thousands stripped them of row and dumped the carcases. They can try to justify their actions but when you pull the stunts that they pulled in Fl i have no sympathy for any of them. they need to learn how to play well with others. Since you quoted my earlier post if they wanna come down feel free.we are all here

" I refuse to get dragged into a debate with a commercial fisherman because they think of only themselves."

Well actually, it appears the commercial fishermen have made all kinds of changes to appease apponents of their livelyhood with no satisfying results. It appears more like the recs are filled with hot heads willing to misrepresent facts to support their own agenda. Commercial fishermen don't refuse like you. They have a proven record of change. They earn a living at it and also supply a source of food.

bumster
02-25-2010, 12:00 PM
Inshore fishing is nothing compared to what it was before the net ban.




F YOU!

Well you sure got that little tidbit right. Now you can catch fish inshore asshole!

bumster
02-25-2010, 12:02 PM
" I refuse to get dragged into a debate with a commercial fisherman because they think of only themselves."

Well actually, it appears the commercial fishermen have made all kinds of changes to appease apponents of their livelyhood with no satisfying results. It appears more like the recs are filled with hot heads willing to misrepresent facts to support their own agenda. Commercial fishermen don't refuse like you. They have a proven record of change. They earn a living at it and also supply a source of food.
call it for what it is. They have been FORCED into concessions. There is a difference

CMEBoston
02-25-2010, 12:02 PM
Maybe you are one of the few. I can recall seeing the mackerel boats with spotter planes circle an ENTIRE school and take every single one. This is not right and I will never change my view. A gill netter stretching a net from one side of a canal to another and take everything in his net. That includes juveniles, snook, redfish, small snapper you name it they took it. the mullet were gutted stripped of roe and left rotting. This kind of behavior is what gets the commercial fisherman in the shit they are in now. It is now possible to catch trout in Biscayne Bay. This is something that has only occurred since the late 90's. this
fishery was dead until the nets were gone! Swordfish, In the early 80's they had the last Swordfish tournament in Miami, 30-50 boats over two days. Not a single Sword was caught now you can go out and actually catch at least one sword on a given night and the only difference is the absence of long line boats. Thats the only difference unless of course you count an ocean that is slightly more polluted now than it was 30 yrs ago.
Like I said, there are poachers on both sides of the line here. would you rather see:
A: no commercial fishing whatsoever, and Import all our seafood like everything else in this country?
B: 2 processing vessels supplying the east coasts fish supply
C: Elitist sportfishermen and their freinds enjoying seafood only
OR
D: complete clousure of fishing all together?

When I saltwater fish I fish commercially. Rod and Reel ailbet, but not for sport.
Someone has to provide fish to the country. cause you saw some as#$oles poach fish in Fl. does not mean all commercial fishermen are as Greedy and unresponsible as you want them to be. the USA's demand for swordfish cannot be supported by rod and reel, period. if you know a better way than longlining bring it to the table.
there are plenty of responsible fishermen contributing to the conservation of fish stocks.
you should google "ruhl Trawl" and tell the class who designed and tested it with their own dough.

boatmanalso
02-25-2010, 12:09 PM
Maybe you are one of the few. I can recall seeing the mackerel boats with spotter planes circle an ENTIRE school and take every single one. This is not right and I will never change my view. A gill netter stretching a net from one side of a canal to another and take everything in his net. That includes juveniles, snook, redfish, small snapper you name it they took it. the mullet were gutted stripped of roe and left rotting. This kind of behavior is what gets the commercial fisherman in the shit they are in now. It is now possible to catch trout in Biscayne Bay. This is something that has only occurred since the late 90's. this
fishery was dead until the nets were gone! Swordfish, In the early 80's they had the last Swordfish tournament in Miami, 30-50 boats over two days. Not a single Sword was caught now you can go out and actually catch at least one sword on a given night and the only difference is the absence of long line boats. Thats the only difference unless of course you count an ocean that is slightly more polluted now than it was 30 yrs ago. you bring up the USA's appetite for seafood thats generous of you except we export an exceptionally large amount of OUR seafood. Hell the shark population is in really bad shape and I know i dont eat shark or shark fin soup. What happens to the sharks that are targeted and caught?

" the mackerel boats with spotter planes circle an ENTIRE school and take every single one."

How do you know they got every single one???????:o:o:o Did you have divers on site before during and after the set?

bumster
02-25-2010, 12:09 PM
http://www.sptimes.com/2005/12/13/Tampabay/Huge_mullet_catch_sei.shtml
Nuff said

boatmanalso
02-25-2010, 12:13 PM
call it for what it is. They have been FORCED into concessions. There is a difference

Somewhere representatives for the commercial fishermen agreed for them as a whole. Although some may have dissagreed , some did not.

bumster
02-25-2010, 12:13 PM
Like I said, there are poachers on both sides of the line here. would you rather see:
A: no commercial fishing whatsoever, and Import all our seafood like everything else in this country?
B: 2 processing vessels supplying the east coasts fish supply
C: Elitist sportfishermen and their freinds enjoying seafood only
OR
D: complete clousure of fishing all together?

When I saltwater fish I fish commercially. Rod and Reel ailbet, but not for sport.
Someone has to provide fish to the country. cause you saw some as#$oles poach fish in Fl. does not mean all commercial fishermen are as Greedy and unresponsible as you want them to be. the USA's demand for swordfish cannot be supported by rod and reel, period. if you know a better way than longlining bring it to the table.
there are plenty of responsible fishermen contributing to the conservation of fish stocks.
you should google "ruhl Trawl" and tell the class who designed and tested it with their own dough.

I have no argument with a hook and line fisherman. As for swords, hook and line or to bad. We have already seen them fished to the point that you couldn't catch them anymore. Do you know how far a sword boat has to go now to catch any fish? Pretty freakin far. Do you know why? THEY OVERFISHED THEIR HOME WATERS

bumster
02-25-2010, 12:15 PM
Somewhere representatives for the commercial fishermen agreed for them as a whole. Although some may have dissagreed , some did not.

Sure.lol more like fisheries management said this is the way it is . Period

boatmanalso
02-25-2010, 12:21 PM
" the mackerel boats with spotter planes circle an ENTIRE school and take every single one."

How do you know they got every single one???????:o:o:o Did you have divers on site before during and after the set?

So is that a no?? you just keep making genralizations to suit whatever it is you are trying to do?

bumster
02-25-2010, 12:30 PM
So is that a no?? you just keep making genralizations to suit whatever it is you are trying to do?

I will let you refer to post 56 when it comes to debating you further. You're an idiot with no first hand knowledge on what went on off the coast 20 yrs ago that has since been banned. say what you want but another fact you cant escape is that 70% of the voters here put an end to the craziness. But you go with your theory that 70% of us are wrong and you are right. Just makes you more of an idiot. I'm done with you. again its beneath me to argue with idiots

CMEBoston
02-25-2010, 12:30 PM
I have no argument with a hook and line fisherman. As for swords, hook and line or to bad. We have already seen them fished to the point that you couldn't catch them anymore. Do you know how far a sword boat has to go now to catch any fish? Pretty freakin far. Do you know why? THEY OVERFISHED THEIR HOME WATERS
You do not have to shout at me, I am perfectly capable of having a semi-normal conversation.
when swordfish were close to shore and overfished no one knew we were depleting any kind of stocks, hell we sailed to the fishing grounds and used whale oil in our street lamps. when my old man swordfished in the 70's and 80's they were steaming to the grand banks, same place they fish now in the NE.
So you are saying if you cannot afford to buy a boat, gear and spend the fuel to catch a swordfish you do not deserve to eat one steak?

boatmanalso
02-25-2010, 12:39 PM
I will let you refer to post 56 when it comes to debating you further. You're an idiot with no first hand knowledge on what went on off the coast 20 yrs ago that has since been banned. say what you want but another fact you cant escape is that 70% of the voters here put an end to the craziness. But you go with your theory that 70% of us are wrong and you are right. Just makes you more of an idiot. I'm done with you. again its beneath me to argue with idiots

Well yes, I already stated I have no idea what went on off the coast of Fl. I'm pretty shore the same thing would apply down there as elsewhere as the population grew. I guess if you are refering to 20 years is your expeience to fishing, you are the newbie.....Msybe that is why your comments are typical of someone wet behind the ears...

bumster
02-25-2010, 12:41 PM
You do not have to shout at me, I am perfectly capable of having a semi-normal conversation.
when swordfish were close to shore and overfished no one knew we were depleting any kind of stocks, hell we sailed to the fishing grounds and used whale oil in our street lamps. when my old man swordfished in the 70's and 80's they were steaming to the grand banks, same place they fish now in the NE.
So you are saying if you cannot afford to buy a boat, gear and spend the fuel to catch a swordfish you do not deserve to eat one steak? Really? What did you think was going on when your catch numbers kept declining? Did you think you had put out your lines after dinner? come on, the catches get smaller and smaller do you have another conclusion other than the numbers of fish are on the decline? If we had serious management 40 yrs ago maybe we could have sustained the fishery but that time has long passed. it is no longer possible to limit catches but close the fishery for some period of time. It ain't rocket science! Commercial guys know the catch numbers are down but refuse to accept it. Do I blame the huge net/processing rigs? absolutely but they are part of the commercial industry and as a whole don't know how to police themselves so someone else has to step up to the plate. If you don't like how its being done then you should all learn how to do it the right way yourselves. Unfortunately history proves that you cant do it

boatmanalso
02-25-2010, 12:43 PM
You do not have to shout at me, I am perfectly capable of having a semi-normal conversation.
when swordfish were close to shore and overfished no one knew we were depleting any kind of stocks, hell we sailed to the fishing grounds and used whale oil in our street lamps. when my old man swordfished in the 70's and 80's they were steaming to the grand banks, same place they fish now in the NE.
So you are saying if you cannot afford to buy a boat, gear and spend the fuel to catch a swordfish you do not deserve to eat one steak?
yea I think that is what he is saying... sounds like he may not understand migration either. One day they were there and next day you couldn't catch any??????????????

boatmanalso
02-25-2010, 12:51 PM
I will let you refer to post 56 when it comes to debating you further. You're an idiot with no first hand knowledge on what went on off the coast 20 yrs ago that has since been banned. say what you want but another fact you cant escape is that 70% of the voters here put an end to the craziness. But you go with your theory that 70% of us are wrong and you are right. Just makes you more of an idiot. I'm done with you. again its beneath me to argue with idiots

OH ok I can accept that you can't see the difference between a commercial guy catching 50 swordfish or you and a bunch of recreational guys going out and catching 100 fish some weekend. To me, it is still swordfish removed from the sea.

CMEBoston
02-25-2010, 12:52 PM
Really? What did you think was going on when your catch numbers kept declining? Did you think you had put out your lines after dinner? come on, the catches get smaller and smaller do you have another conclusion other than the numbers of fish are on the decline? If we had serious management 40 yrs ago maybe we could have sustained the fishery but that time has long passed. it is no longer possible to limit catches but close the fishery for some period of time. It ain't rocket science! Commercial guys know the catch numbers are down but refuse to accept it. Do I blame the huge net/processing rigs? absolutely but they are part of the commercial industry and as a whole don't know how to police themselves so someone else has to step up to the plate. If you don't like how its being done then you should all learn how to do it the right way yourselves. Unfortunately history proves that you cant do it
Like I said, I do not commercial long line or drag, onl respect MOST of those who do. 40 years ago we just started figuring out what we were doing to fish stocks. 40 years ago you had to go the the grand banks for swords, just like today.
Oh but it is OK for you to take swordfish for consumption? now I get it.

thanks for straighting that out for me:thumbsup:

























:roll

KFISHC
02-25-2010, 12:55 PM
Every time I see a thread like this on THT its like instant crack for people- they go crazy. I probably would too if it was my lively hood; however, I don't think you can even discuss something like this without the understanding (or concession) that there is no ULTIMATE truth or silver bullet answer. Placing blame on one group of people vs the other and picking teams is a sure way to accomplish nothing and drive minimal solutions and most importantly hinder thought leadership.

It is a good read though :tht_rulez:

bumster
02-25-2010, 01:04 PM
Commercial fisherman have always taken more than their share. What you're saying is that I should go without so you can take them instead.As I stated before, What were you guys thinking as the catch numbers kept declining ? Do you want to hop on Boatmanaslo's migration train as an answer? It wasn't migration. It was a declining population that should be crystal clear

CMEBoston
02-25-2010, 01:09 PM
Commercial fisherman have always taken more than their share. What you're saying is that I should go without so you can take them instead.As I stated before, What were you guys thinking as the catch numbers kept declining ? Do you want to hop on Boatmanaslo's migration train as an answer? It wasn't migration. It was a declining population that should be crystal clear
I am hopping on no train there sport. nor am I saying I should be able to fish and YOU cannot, You said that.
if the fish stocks are so bad why do you keep the fish you catch? do you not feel it is your duty to release them unharmed? seeing you are so concerned with the stocks and all. I Know, I know, you do not catch nearly as much as a commercial boat, but all the other sporties combined do. there arent but a handfull of longlineres left on the eastcoast.
It seems to me You are saying the only pepole that should catch fish or eat fish are elitist sportfisherman such as your self.
if that is not the case than present it to me.

boatmanalso
02-25-2010, 01:12 PM
Commercial fisherman have always taken more than their share. What you're saying is that I should go without so you can take them instead.As I stated before, What were you guys thinking as the catch numbers kept declining ? Do you want to hop on Boatmanaslo's migration train as an answer? It wasn't migration. It was a declining population that should be crystal clear

Since I don't catch fish for a living ,I never saw a declining fish catch. All I ever saw was when the fish migrate in I catch fish and when the fish migrate away I can't catch fish. Again That is for my area. I can't explain what happens in Fl. since I am not there and never was.

PtJudeRI
02-25-2010, 01:43 PM
Since I don't catch fish for a living ,I never saw a declining fish catch. All I ever saw was when the fish migrate in I catch fish and when the fish migrate away I can't catch fish. Again That is for my area. I can't explain what happens in Fl. since I am not there and never was.

Fu%#ing Moron

boatmanalso
02-25-2010, 01:51 PM
Fu%#ing Moron

OK I'll bow to your excellent fishing skills...

How many bluefin tuna did you catch today?

How many bluefin were caught by commercial guys off stellwagon today?

bumster
02-25-2010, 02:54 PM
I am hopping on no train there sport. nor am I saying I should be able to fish and YOU cannot, You said that.
if the fish stocks are so bad why do you keep the fish you catch? do you not feel it is your duty to release them unharmed? seeing you are so concerned with the stocks and all. I Know, I know, you do not catch nearly as much as a commercial boat, but all the other sporties combined do. there arent but a handfull of longlineres left on the eastcoast.
It seems to me You are saying the only pepole that should catch fish or eat fish are elitist sportfisherman such as your self.
if that is not the case than present it to me.

i posted that in an earlier post. Usually its 4 of us on a sword trip usually we get 2 to the boat and usually loose at least one (don't know if its a sword ) of the 2 we catch we keep one. we dont keep the pups and we have the ability to release alive. When we go Snook fishing we may catch 8-10 on a good night and the limit is two per person we keep one fish and split it between two people( usually only two people on the boat for a Snook fishing trip.I dont take more than I need. My bycatch is released alive. I am still waiting for an answer? What were you guys thinking as your catch numbers were dropping all those years. Did you think your sets were in after the fish had already eaten?

boatmanalso
02-25-2010, 02:57 PM
i posted that in an earlier post. Usually its 4 of us on a sword trip usually we get 2 to the boat and usually loose at least one (don't know if its a sword ) of the 2 we catch we keep one. we dont keep the pups and we have the ability to release alive. When we go Snook fishing we may catch 8-10 on a good night and the limit is two per person we keep one fish and split it between two people( usually only two people on the boat for a Snook fishing trip.I dont take more than I need. My bycatch is released alive.

How many swordfish did you catch this week?

boatmanalso
02-25-2010, 03:04 PM
i posted that in an earlier post. Usually its 4 of us on a sword trip usually we get 2 to the boat and usually loose at least one (don't know if its a sword ) of the 2 we catch we keep one. we dont keep the pups and we have the ability to release alive. When we go Snook fishing we may catch 8-10 on a good night and the limit is two per person we keep one fish and split it between two people( usually only two people on the boat for a Snook fishing trip.I dont take more than I need. My bycatch is released alive. I am still waiting for an answer? What were you guys thinking as your catch numbers were dropping all those years. Did you think your sets were in after the fish had already eaten?

How do you determine which of the 4 people get half a fish?

CMEBoston
02-25-2010, 03:35 PM
i posted that in an earlier post. Usually its 4 of us on a sword trip usually we get 2 to the boat and usually loose at least one (don't know if its a sword ) of the 2 we catch we keep one. we dont keep the pups and we have the ability to release alive. When we go Snook fishing we may catch 8-10 on a good night and the limit is two per person we keep one fish and split it between two people( usually only two people on the boat for a Snook fishing trip.I dont take more than I need. My bycatch is released alive. I am still waiting for an answer? What were you guys thinking as your catch numbers were dropping all those years. Did you think your sets were in after the fish had already eaten?
Why do you say you guys, I am not a commercial dragger or longliner or gillnetter.
so you catch one and what? pull the hook? pop the leader? how many fish are swimming around with a length of mono hanging out of its face?

I am still awating an answer to the following questions,
1.Do you belive you should be able to catch and eat swordfish while others not fortunate enough to live by the sea or catch the fish themselves should not?
2. do you belive the demand for swordfish can be supported by a hook and line fishery?

I would love to hear your veiws on the bluefin tuna fishery as well.

boatmanalso
02-25-2010, 03:42 PM
Fu%#ing Moron

Is that you wispering ino bumsters ear:rofl::rofl::rofl:

boatmanalso
02-25-2010, 03:46 PM
i posted that in an earlier post. Usually its 4 of us on a sword trip usually we get 2 to the boat and usually loose at least one (don't know if its a sword ) of the 2 we catch we keep one. we dont keep the pups and we have the ability to release alive. When we go Snook fishing we may catch 8-10 on a good night and the limit is two per person we keep one fish and split it between two people( usually only two people on the boat for a Snook fishing trip.I dont take more than I need. My bycatch is released alive. I am still waiting for an answer? What were you guys thinking as your catch numbers were dropping all those years. Did you think your sets were in after the fish had already eaten?

that is aweful selfish using up everones gas so catch some snook. You are allowed to keep 2 per person b ut you only keep one and split it? Wouldn't it be eco friendly if you went fishing once and kept 2 a piece? And you talk about being waistefull!!!:rofl::rofl::rofl:

bumster
02-25-2010, 03:49 PM
Why do you say you guys, I am not a commercial dragger or longliner or gillnetter.
so you catch one and what? pull the hook? pop the leader? how many fish are swimming around with a length of mono hanging out of its face?

I am still awating an answer to the following questions,
1.Do you belive you should be able to catch and eat swordfish while others not fortunate enough to live by the sea or catch the fish themselves should not?
2. do you belive the demand for swordfish can be supported by a hook and line fishery?

I would love to hear your veiws on the bluefin tuna fishery as well.
I believe that the fishery could survive on hook and line as long as the line is not 20 miles long with 2 thousand hooks
I believe that what makes it to the market should not exceed what the fishery can support its not really hard to understand. As far as BF tuna go, ha ha ha ha great export fishery there. Most here cant afford it I don't think we should be exporting more fish than we keep and if you're so concerned with putting fish on the table here don't sell them to the Japanese. We decimate our own fishery for another country. Now thats rich! It is however the American way i guess. Just so you know, Thats what the netters in Fl did. Killed the mullet and the roe went to Japan. Ain't it great and you wonder why commercial fisherman have a bad rap.

loligo
02-25-2010, 03:54 PM
It was one of those things where I should have settled down first then posted. I refuse to get dragged into a debate with a commercial fisherman because they think of only themselves. Thats why Fl got rid of the netters. They took mullet by the thousands stripped them of row and dumped the carcases. They can try to justify their actions but when you pull the stunts that they pulled in Fl i have no sympathy for any of them. they need to learn how to play well with others. Since you quoted my earlier post if they wanna come down feel free.we are all here

Listen jackass. I lived in Lauderdale in the past, NE 38'th - right across from the club entrance. The Wrigleys were my winter neighbors. I fished everywhere up and down the E coast of FL back then, mostly for snook recreationally, I wasn't a commercial fisherman then, I know what I am talking about. How many 40+ snook have you caught, I'm well into 20+. Later I worked for a guy up in Stuart, E Coast Charlies Tackle, selling and delivering tackle from Hollywood to Titusville, I know Floridas E Coast like the back of my hand, I spent my fun years drinkin fishin and f'n there, so you tell me all about it, how swell everything is compared to twenty years ago, you'll be lying. I'm still friends with hundreds of fishermen there, talk to lots of them and none say things are better. But they don't lie like you.

There's less of everything now even though there have been no nets for 15 years. Less sheepshead less pins and less mullet, less spanish, less trout, less flounder, crabs, shrimp etc. Why? There hasn't been a net soaked in 15 years....I thought they were what was killing everything?:jk:
The bottoms are choked off from algae all over Florida, the mullet grass is vanishing more and more. WHY?

I'm sick and tired of smug self serving uninformed know it alls like you -
You're an ignorant hypocritical douchebag and I wouldn't use you to wipe my ass.

CMEBoston
02-25-2010, 03:58 PM
I believe that the fishery could survive on hook and line as long as the line is not 20 miles long with 2 thousand hooks
I believe that what makes it to the market should not exceed what the fishery can support its not really hard to understand. As far as BF tuna go, ha ha ha ha great export fishery there. Most here cant afford it I don't think we should be exporting more fish than we keep and if you're so concerned with putting fish on the table here don't sell them to the Japanese. We decimate our own fishery for another country. Now thats rich! It is however the American way i guess. Just so you know, Thats what the netters in Fl did. Killed the mullet and the roe went to Japan. Ain't it great and you wonder why commercial fisherman have a bad rap.
Actually an increasing amount of fish (bluefin) have been selling here in the states considering the japanese culture boom and sushi trends.
I am quite sure if you can afford to catch your own swordfish then you can afford to buy sashimi grade tuna.
the market dictates demand witch affects pricing, just like bluefin, if the US does not get its fish from US fishermen we will get it from overseas, there is no arguing that. so you think we should import the same fish we can catch here from overseas? (they are the same fish, you do know that right?) or should we have a swordfish embargo here in the states untill the stocks recover 100%? leaving the elite sportfishermen to savor the taste of fresh swordfish?

bumster
02-25-2010, 04:02 PM
Listen jackass. I lived in Lauderdale in the past, NE 38'th - right across from the club entrance. The Wrigleys were my winter neighbors. I fished everywhere up and down the E coast of FL back then, mostly for snook recreationally, I wasn't a commercial fisherman then, I know what I am talking about. How many 40+ snook have you caught, I'm well into 20+. Later I worked for a guy up in Stuart, E Coast Charlies Tackle, selling and delivering tackle from Hollywood to Titusville, I know Floridas E Coast like the back of my hand, I spent my fun years drinkin fishin and f'n there, so you tell me all about it, how swell everything is compared to twenty years ago, you'll be lying. I'm still friends with hundreds of fishermen there, talk to lots of them and none say things are better. But they don't lie like you.

There's less of everything now even though there have been no nets for 15 years. Less sheepshead less pins and less mullet, less spanish, less trout, less flounder, crabs, shrimp etc. The bottoms are choked off from algae all over Florida, the mullet grass is vanishing more and more. Why? There hasn't been a net soaked in 15 years....I thought they were what was killing everything?:jk:

I'm sick and tired of smug self serving uninformed know it alls like you -
You're an ignorant hypocritical douchebag and I wouldn't use you to wipe my ass.
come on down fuck boy and i Will wipe my ass with you.

bumster
02-25-2010, 04:04 PM
the two sides will go back and forth you will never change my view and i sure wont change yours. fisheries are not collapsing from hook and line its that simple
loligo, you can kiss my mother F'n ass your opinion means less than nothing to me. go home spank it and grow the f up douche bag i didnt start a personal attack on you you worthless POS no swearing nothing. go back and play with the poor white trash or learn how to post like a grownup you are what the world needed one more horses rectum that has learned how to walk upright

CMEBoston
02-25-2010, 04:05 PM
come on down fuck boy and i Will wipe my ass with you.
Oh man!!!! dems fightin words!!!
settle down sport.

CMEBoston
02-25-2010, 04:06 PM
the two sides will go back and forth you will never change my view and i sure wont change yours. fisheries are not collapsing from hook and line its that simple
I never said they were, I am only exposing you for the elitist you think you are:thumbsup:

bumster
02-25-2010, 04:17 PM
I never said they were, I am only exposing you for the elitist you think you are:thumbsup:
hardly an elitist. Don't fish that often and don't take many home when i do fish and catch something. we go Swordfishing maybe 3 times a year because it costs to much. just don't like the thought of a 20 mile line with 2 thousand hooks in the water and someone trying to sell the idea that it doesn't kill every fish hooked and that it doesn't lead to a depleted fishery

boatmanalso
02-25-2010, 04:19 PM
the two sides will go back and forth you will never change my view and i sure wont change yours. fisheries are not collapsing from hook and line its that simple
loligo, you can kiss my mother F'n ass your opinion means less than nothing to me. go home spank it and grow the f up douche bag i didnt start a personal attack on you you worthless POS no swearing nothing. go back and play with the poor white trash or learn how to post like a grownup you are what the world needed one more horses rectum that has learned how to walk upright
since you don't know to much and seem to be wrong about alot, you may never change your mind but your mind appears to have been made up on false impressions. As I asked earlier,do you know why most bluefin went to Japan? you never answered... there is a reason. Tuna was very cheap 40 years ago and became very expencie in the 80s. Back then a good fish was worth half the cost of a average house.

CMEBoston
02-25-2010, 04:21 PM
hardly an elitist. Don't fish that often and don't take many home when i do fish and catch something. we go Swordfishing maybe 3 times a year because it costs to much. just don't like the thought of a 20 mile line with 2 thousand hooks in the water and someone trying to sell the idea that it doesn't kill every fish hooked and that it doesn't lead to a depleted fishery
You dont have to fish to be an elitist, you just have to have a narrow minded veiw on things and make sure your agenda is pushed no matter the cost:roll
Commercial fishing is a very important industry that cannot be exported like every other occupation in this country. You cannot blame the depletion of HMS fish stocks soley on the US commercial fishing fleet. but you do because you have witnessed poachers commit a hideous act. So you will always have a narrow minded veiw on this subject.
I rely on commercial fishermen, sport fishermen, and regular old boaters to earn my pay in the electronics feild. when a commercial dragger spends over $50000 dollars in sonar equipment it is safe to say he is concerned with what goes into his net.

Please do a little homework and do not put all commercial fishermen in the same category. I asked you to google the Ruhl trawl and report your findings, you did not. so I will do it for you.

tell me these men do not care about their fishery.

Carl Bouchard has a haddock tow in mind: deeper water on the edge of Jeffreys Ledge. “We’ll start there,” Bouchard says, pointing at his plotter. “If we don’t find ’em there we’ll move up shallower.” Bouchard, 68, has been trawling and lobstering the western Gulf of Maine for long enough to know some things: “There are no guarantees about finding haddock,” he notes, “especially when nobody’s been out in three months.”
Bouchard’s boat, the Stormy Weather, is a classic Novi, 45 feet long and 20 feet wide — beamy, stable and slow. As we steam south toward Jeffreys Ledge off Cape Ann, Mass., another boat steams alongside us. The Lady Victoria, captained by Charlie Felch, out of Hampton Beach, N.H., is going to be our partner, our significant other for the next three days. She has a similar look, dimensions and horsepower, nearly an exact match for the Stormy.
Similarity is critical when one is conducting side-by-side research tows. It acts as a variance control. This experiment is simply one net against another, not in competition, but in the collection of numbers — bycatch numbers. “Our goal’s to prove to NMFS that we can tow an experimental trawl for haddock in the spring and not catch a lot of codfish or flounder,” Bouchard says. “We want to be able to use this net from April into May. Right now we can’t — that bottom is closed then.”
The game plan for the next three days is straightforward: One boat will tow the test trawl (called the Eliminator during trials and later renamed for the late Phil Ruhle Sr.) and the other boat will use a regular two-seam groundfish net with a 90-foot sweep. The following day, the boats will trade nets. All the tows will be inside a pair of closed areas known as blocks 132 and 133, which were closed to trawling and gillnetting for three months beginning last March.
On the first day aboard the Stormy, it’s a full house — Bouchard, deckhand Paul Kuncho, a Sea Grant writer, a researcher, and me. The wheelhouse bustles on the ride out. One question hangs on everyone’s mind: Will the new trawl reduce codfish bycatch in an area that has more than a few codfish around?
Having a lot of people milling around the wheelhouse isn’t for every captain. A couple of writers asking simultaneous, rapid-fire questions about “biomass” and “ecosystem-based management,” and many captains would’ve turned the boat around. Yet Bouchard, a man at ease, a true graybeard, sits in the helm chair chewing a blue toothpick and discussing, happily and eloquently, the cod and haddock situation from Provincetown on Cape Cod to the Isle of Shoals off southernmost Maine and New Hampshire.
Kuncho, 37, is down below in his bunk, catching a catnap. Bouchard has been active in cooperative research for a decade. The University of New Hampshire knows him well. “A lot can be learned when information is shared. Science to fisherman, fisherman to science,” Bouchard says. “At this point, I’d say it’s essential.”

bumster
02-25-2010, 04:22 PM
You dont have to fish to be an elitist, you just have to have a narrow minded veiw on things and make sure your agenda is pushed no matter the cost:roll

according to you, oh and i think 3 others here. I can live with that
As long as i can go out a few times a year and have a good shot at getting a nice sword I am ok. If i can fish the inlet and get a few snook and take one home I am happy and so are all the other narrow minded rec fisherman

CMEBoston
02-25-2010, 04:35 PM
according to you, oh and i think 3 others here. I can live with that
As long as i can go out a few times a year and have a good shot at getting a nice sword I am ok. If i can fish the inlet and get a few snook and take one home I am happy and so are all the other narrow minded rec fisherman
Its all about you Sport:thumbsup:
thanks for proving my point.

bumster
02-25-2010, 04:47 PM
Its all about you Sport:thumbsup:
thanks for proving my point.

it's supposed to be about fishing. to bad commercials think they own it simply because its their livelihood. Not trying to get you guys forced out of business just wish you didn't think that the ocean is yours first then everyone else's and contrary to what ever you may say past history is still not on your side

PtJudeRI
02-25-2010, 04:55 PM
What's the matter boatie. Helmet on a Bit too tight?? Tell the short bus to swing over and I'll loosen it up for you.

boatmanalso
02-25-2010, 04:58 PM
it's supposed to be about fishing. to bad commercials think they own it simply because its their livelihood. Not trying to get you guys forced out of business just wish you didn't think that the ocean is yours first then everyone else's and contrary to what ever you may say past history is still not on your side

I'm pretty sure I haven't heard anyone say you can't fish. Most commercial guys want rec to fish. When a rec finds out it cost himself $2344lb for swordfish to catch it himself, it sounds cheap at the fishmarkey for 14.99.

CMEBoston
02-25-2010, 05:02 PM
it's supposed to be about fishing. to bad commercials think they own it simply because its their livelihood. Not trying to get you guys forced out of business just wish you didn't think that the ocean is yours first then everyone else's and contrary to what ever you may say past history is still not on your side
Singing a different tune now huh?
Like I said, I respect the sport angler as well as the commercial fisherman. We all need to respect the sea, and realize it is not ours.
I do not wish a closure of any fishery to any fishermen.
I do have a problem with sportfishermen who want to put commercial guys out of buisness so they can catch fish themselves.(witch BTW you do wish to do considering the last 6 or so pages of your narrow minded rhetoric)
Past history is just that, history. we can all learn from history. there are quite a few commercial fishermen that care about the future of the fisheries in general. the NMFS is a complete waste of resource considering their track record as well.
But who are you to say a commercial fisherman should not sell a particular species while you yourself are exploiting it, even in a minute way?
I hope you come away from this conversation with a bit wider of a veiw and bid you good day sir.



and again, thanks for proving my point, Sport.

bumster
02-25-2010, 05:04 PM
What's the matter boatie. Helmet on a Bit too tight?? Tell the short bus to swing over and I'll loosen it up for you.
You gotta keep taunting him don't you? lol Once you get him started you should stick around and take jabs at him

bumster
02-25-2010, 05:05 PM
Singing a different tune now huh?
Like I said, I respect the sport angler as well as the commercial fisherman. We all need to respect the sea, and realize it is not ours.
I do not wish a closure of any fishery to any fishermen.
I do have a problem with sportfishermen who want to put commercial guys out of buisness so they can catch fish themselves.(witch BTW you do wish to do considering the last 6 or so pages of your narrow minded rhetoric)
Past history is just that, history. we can all learn from history. there are quite a few commercial fishermen that care about the future of the fisheries in general. the NMFS is a complete waste of resource considering their track record as well.
But who are you to say a commercial fisherman should not sell a particular species while you yourself are exploiting it, even in a minute way?
I hope you come away from this conversation with a bit wider of a veiw and bid you good day sir.



and again, thanks for proving my point, Sport.
Still singin the same tune. good day

CMEBoston
02-25-2010, 05:09 PM
Still singin the same tune. good day
Guess thats why they say "not all the turtles make it to the sea":roll

boatmanalso
02-25-2010, 05:12 PM
You gotta keep taunting him don't you? lol Once you get him started you should stick around and take jabs at him

LOL, not to worry sonny. I learned in 1rst grade not to let 3rd grade mentality rattle me.

PtJudeRI
02-25-2010, 05:16 PM
Why do you say you guys, I am not a commercial dragger or longliner or gillnetter.
so you catch one and what? pull the hook? pop the leader? how many fish are swimming around with a length of mono hanging out of its face?

I am still awating an answer to the following questions,
1.Do you belive you should be able to catch and eat swordfish while others not fortunate enough to live by the sea or catch the fish themselves should not?
2. do you belive the demand for swordfish can be supported by a hook and line fishery?

I would love to hear your veiws on the bluefin tuna fishery as well.

I'll take an honest answer here. I think that commercial fishing suffers from chronic underpricing and lack of respect. By this I mean that fisherman do not command the price required for fish, and are controlled by supplier auctions.

I think that those who can afford fish should have it. Yes, that is correct. In the rest of the economy, scarcity drives prices up. Can you get kobe beef for angus prices? And can you get the best grass fed angus steaks in New England (or do they all stay in the Midwest?) fish is a commodity, and a shrinking one. People in Duluth do not deserve fresh ocean fish more than I their beef. Why does everyone deserve fresh, cheap fish? Let them eat tilapia and farm salmon for that.

Raise the price, catch less, make the same. Economies of scale in reverse. Call me a dreamer, but all the pragmatisis have gotten it wrong so far. And yes, I would pay. I fish, so $60/lb. For fresh bluefin is still cheap.

bumster
02-25-2010, 05:16 PM
Three swords a year is definitely exploiting a fishery. Ya got me. Me and the ten or so boats at a time I see. add all that together and you still don't come close to 2 thousand hooks in the water at one time .
You wont change my opinion or anyone else's do you really want to keep going? I'm game maybe we can outdo the Contender warranty thread.

PtJudeRI
02-25-2010, 05:28 PM
We're not doing bad so far. Course I posted my last three posts at a restaurant and everyone is staring; but no matter! This is important quibbling, dammit!

loligo
02-25-2010, 05:36 PM
Still raving about the swords....must be something wrong with yours.

Where are all the fish that were supposed to return after the net ban?

You won't answer because you'd have to admit you were.....wrong.

I'll bet you cruise Birch in the wee hours don'cha?

boatmanalso
02-25-2010, 05:38 PM
We're not doing bad so far. Course I posted my last three posts at a restaurant and everyone is staring; but no matter! This is important quibbling, dammit!

Try using etiquette when you are typing in a restaurant... raise you pinkies/:rofl::rofl::rofl:

bumster
02-25-2010, 05:42 PM
Still raving about the swords....must be something wrong with yours.

Where are all the fish that were supposed to return after the net ban?

You won't answer because you'd have to admit you were.....wrong.

I'll bet you cruise Birch in the wee hours don'cha?
Maybe you missed this earlier.. Just for you loligo, you can kiss my mother F'n ass your opinion means less than nothing to me. go home spank it and grow the f up douche bag i didnt start a personal attack on you you worthless POS no swearing nothing. go back and play with the poor white trash or learn how to post like a grownup you are what the world needed one more horses rectum that has learned how to walk upright

PtJudeRI
02-25-2010, 05:43 PM
Try using etiquette when you are typing in a restaurant... raise you pinkies/:rofl::rofl::rofl:

With the cell phone that looks like "hook em horns". I don't know which will stand out more!

bumster
02-25-2010, 05:44 PM
I'll bet you cruise Birch in the wee hours don'cha?

Funny that you would know the place and time. Guess you're spankin some other guy's sword and not yours Well we all know which team you're pitching for

PtJudeRI
02-25-2010, 05:48 PM
Maybe you missed this earlier.. Just for you loligo, you can kiss my mother F'n ass your opinion means less than nothing to me. go home spank it and grow the f up douche bag i didnt start a personal attack on you you worthless POS no swearing nothing. go back and play with the poor white trash or learn how to post like a grownup you are what the world needed one more horses rectum that has learned how to walk upright

Harsh, no doubt, but he is correct. Despite our sides here, we all started with a civil tone (some post have raised hackles no doubt) but Loligo, you came out swinging below the belt. Why not use your big boy words. I have read MANY of your posts here and on noreast, and I know you have a ton of productive info to share.

loligo
02-25-2010, 05:55 PM
No big boy words for this asshole - this is all bare knuckles I won't listen to a word a guy like him says about the net ban. It was criminal in it's inception and it still is.

1 day 1 vote and 28,000 people lost their jobs. No joking or big boy words will fix that.

I'll say this- when I was living there, I used to have the same - netters are bad they are killing everything - impression.....boy was I misinformed.

bumster
02-25-2010, 05:56 PM
Harsh, no doubt, but he is correct. Despite our sides here, we all started with a civil tone (some post have raised hackles no doubt) but Loligo, you came out swinging below the belt. Why not use your big boy words. I have read MANY of your posts here and on noreast, and I know you have a ton of productive info to share.
Lets all raise a glass and accept that we will never agree LOL

bumster
02-25-2010, 05:57 PM
No big boy words for this asshole - this is all bare knuckles I won't listen to a word a guy like him says about the net ban. It was criminal in it's inception and it still is.

1 day 1 vote and 28,000 people lost their jobs. No joking or big boy words will fix that.

I'll say this- when I was living there, I used to have the same - netters are bad they are killing everything - impression.....boy was I misinformed.
AAWWWW
Tough shit! learn to play with others and it never would have happened
Amost 3/4 of the voting population was wrong. OK douche bag

loligo
02-25-2010, 06:06 PM
Play with others? Are you on drugs?

Answer the question asshole- where are all the fish? Where's the mullet? Where are the crabs?

bumster
02-25-2010, 06:12 PM
Play with others? Are you on drugs?

Answer the question asshole- where are all the fish? Where's the mullet? Where are the crabs?

if you were not such a horses ass i would keep this going with you. you're a 1st class douche in need of a serious ass kicking. If i saw you on the street i would drop kick your sorry ass and laugh. like I said go spank it
Oh and by the way much better fishing down here since the net ban and you may have lived down here but shit for brains Im a native born and raised in South Florida been fishing here since i was about 9 yrs old. Ive watched it go downhill and watched it as the fishing has gotten better over the last 15 yrs so kiss my Mother f'n ass
here's your mullet. your friends and the ones you defend are here also

loligo
02-25-2010, 06:15 PM
if you were not such a horses ass i would keep this going with you. you're a 1st class douche in need of a serious ass kicking. If i saw you on the street i would drop kick your sorry ass and laugh. like I said go spank it
Oh and by the way much better fishing down here since the net ban and you may have lived down here but shit for brains Im a native born and raised in South Florida been fishing here since i was about 9 yrs old. Ive watched it go downhill and watched it as the fishing has gotten better over the last 15 yrs so kiss my Mother f'n ass

So what you are saying is your folks were related? I see.....

Still haven't answered the question, could you please post the SA for the various relevant inshore species?:roll

That'd be a hoot:thumbsup:

bumster
02-25-2010, 06:20 PM
So what you are saying is your folks were related? I see.....

Still haven't answered the question, could you please post the SA for the various relevant inshore species?:roll

That'd be a hoot:thumbsup:

Poor Poor netters AAwwww all those jobs wiped out. appearantly not all of them www.sptimes.com/2005/12/13/Tampabay/Huge_mullet_catch_sei.shtml
This is why you were all thrown out on your collective ass.11 years after the net ban You dont follow the rules. You all wanted everyone to feel sorry for you HA . Got news for ya shit head Florida is glad the likes of you are mostly wiped out.
Go take a big bite of your boyfriends tubesteak I'm done going back and forth with a Pickle smoocher

loligo
02-25-2010, 06:29 PM
So - criminals are in all trades. I'm willing to bet there are more criminal "sport" violations written every year in Florida, by far.....but please keep on impressing us with your inbreed wisdom.

You really are clueless.

GT FISH
02-25-2010, 06:30 PM
Good job Bumster..These idiots who rape the ocean have there own twisted views on reality..They reject your reality and create there own...

bumster
02-25-2010, 06:30 PM
So - criminals are in all trades. I'm willing to bet there are more criminal "sport" violations written every year in Florida, by far.....but please keep on impressing us with your inbreed wisdom.

You really are clueless.

SO! Thats your big comeback? LOL grab your boyfriends ass cheeks and get a big bite
6000 pounds dont recall a rec fisherman getting caught with that many fish over, under, outof season combined. Now you know why we kicked your skank ass the fuck out of this state

loligo
02-25-2010, 06:35 PM
I'm glad you are amused. It seems it doesn't take much to do that.
I was hoping for your sake it was drugs....nope it's inbreeding.

Answer the question shitstick - where's the styock assessment?

C'mon, I'd think you had it right on your PC already, no?

bumster
02-25-2010, 06:50 PM
I'm glad you are amused. It seems it doesn't take much to do that.
I was hoping for your sake it was drugs....nope it's inbreeding.

Answer the question shitstick - where's the styock assessment?

C'mon, I'd think you had it right on your PC already, no?
You should read it. It proves that the fishing has gotten better since the mid to late 90's
http://research.myfwc.com/features/category_sub.asp?id=4587
Stocks on most fish have increased and mortality has decreased. the fish being taken are larger. what more do you need? sorry nothing. you got a mouth full of tubesteak. continue your meal asshole

loligo
02-25-2010, 07:18 PM
I love the lies from the FWC who can't even keep it straight for 1 page.....

Since the 1995 net-ban, Florida’s commercial landings have sharply declined to an annual average of 8.1 million pounds, a 67% reduction if compared to the recent historical (1967-1990) average level of 25 million pounds......then they say-
Commercial catch rates for striped mullet increased following the elimination of entangling gears in Florida waters on both coasts.

Duh......

But what do you expect from the FWC, a criminal btanch of FL govt., that has no legislative oversight?

bumster
02-25-2010, 07:30 PM
I love the lies from the FWC who can't even keep it straight for 1 page.....

then they say-


Duh......

But what do you expect from the FWC, a criminal btanch of FL govt., that has no legislative oversight?

Typical from a commercial pickle smoocher you cut and paste only the parts that support your point of view which is why I put the link up there. It's the same reason (again) why we kicked your skank asses out of this state. You manipulate the facts to support your theory. cut and paste your boyfriends tubesteak to your ass as you bend over douche bag
a little fish oil and you wont feel a thing

bumster
02-25-2010, 07:45 PM
LOLIGO I cant help myself
Trout Assesment the total recreational harvest generally declined through the 1980’s and much of the 1990’s in all regions. After 1995 there was a general increase in landings in the two southern regions. Both northern regions showed a period of relative stability in the landings during the late 1990’s and early 2000’s but have recently trended upward. Statewide recreational harvest was over 3.4 million fish in 2005.

Mullet here is some of what you left out Commercial catch rates for striped mullet increased following the elimination of entangling gears in Florida waters on both coasts. This increase probably reflects the increase in the stock size.

Snook On the Atlantic coast, MRFSS total-catch rates have increased since 1997 and the median standardized total-catch rate in 2004 was the highest in the fourteen year series. The catch rates on the gulf coast have been increasing and the median total-catch rate in 2004 was also the highest value.

Bite my ass. You take more than you deserve and again don't think you left fl.We kicked you out cause you think of yourselves and you think that because its your livelihood you should be able to take any amount you deem fit. well we decided you have cowshit for brains. I only hope that people actually follow my link so they can see that you are full of shit. That says exactly opposite of what you say . Your point on this will be that its a govt agancy and they are lying and its all a big conspiracy. Fuck you and your your kind. We gave you almost what you deserved. when you all violated the ban at first your asses should have been locked up and your boats and gear SUNK BITCH

loligo
02-26-2010, 04:32 AM
The number 1 cause of all non fish animal deaths related to fishing is entanglement or ingestion of monofilament.

Prior to the net ban there was never a recorded case of a porpoise death caused by a gill net, but that didn't stop the net ban proponents from stealing a training film from the U of GA and using it to give the appearance that porpoises were being killed in nets.

Statewide, in FL, manatee deaths attributable to propeller injuries are skyrocketing.

Statewide, in FL, commercial and recreational landings of non gamefish species have dropped since the net ban, 20 - 30% dependent of species.

These are facts.


You posted a report card on the fisheries, written by the FWC.

The FWC is an illegal branch of FL state government, it has no oversight, which is ridiculous. The FWC is stacked with anti commercial fishing interests who are backed by the recreational for profit industry.

Floridas citizens were tricked by the proponents of the net ban, by a deceitful campaign of television ads that depicted things that were not true and were actually fabricated, including the use of a stolen training film from the U of GA, that showed turtles entangled in a net and also an image of a FMP standing over a dead porpoise that appeared to be killed by a net, but later turned out to be dead from prop strikes as proven through a necropsy and the officer involved never made to explain the circumstances that led to the staging of the photo.

Interviews with FL residents after the net ban revealed that the majority of the people who voted for the net ban had no idea what they were voting for.

The net ban was a fish grab, bought and paid for by for by real estate developers and for profit recreational fishing and boating interests.

You can call me a liar, but you know who's right.

The inshore fishing in Florida is a shadow of what it was twenty years ago.

amarshall
02-26-2010, 04:37 AM
PtJude "the 114 people that have to find new jobs is the worst part of this happening "

How many jobs were those 114 supporting? There will be a domino effect when those jobs are lost.

This factory is a supplier of a food source. Pretty soon all you will be eating is imported food. A cycle of doom is being created in this country. Catch on to it.

It's not our fault that other countries can manage their fish populations and sustainably harvest multiple species.

<-food importer.

bumster
02-26-2010, 05:00 AM
The number 1 cause of all non fish animal deaths related to fishing is entanglement or ingestion of monofilament.

Prior to the net ban there was never a recorded case of a porpoise death caused by a gill net, but that didn't stop the net ban proponents from stealing a training film from the U of GA and using it to give the appearance that porpoises were being killed in nets.

Statewide, in FL, manatee deaths attributable to propeller injuries are skyrocketing.

Statewide, in FL, commercial and recreational landings of non gamefish species have dropped since the net ban, 20 - 30% dependent of species.

These are facts.


You posted a report card on the fisheries, written by the FWC.

The FWC is an illegal branch of FL state government, it has no oversight, which is ridiculous. The FWC is stacked with anti commercial fishing interests who are backed by the recreational for profit industry.

Floridas citizens were tricked by the proponents of the net ban, by a deceitful campaign of television ads that depicted things that were not true and were actually fabricated, including the use of a stolen training film from the U of GA, that showed turtles entangled in a net and also an image of a FMP standing over a dead porpoise that appeared to be killed by a net, but later turned out to be dead from prop strikes as proven through a necropsy and the officer involved never made to explain the circumstances that led to the staging of the photo.

Interviews with FL residents after the net ban revealed that the majority of the people who voted for the net ban had no idea what they were voting for.

The net ban was a fish grab, bought and paid for by for by real estate developers and for profit recreational fishing and boating interests.

You can call me a liar, but you know who's right.

The inshore fishing in Florida is a shadow of what it was twenty years ago.

BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH You did exactly what I said you would do It was the report card YOU said to look at. Perhaps you should have shut the f up and not mentioned it. Since it doesn't support your theory now its a report card written by an illegal branch of the FL Govt. Again these are the reasons we ran your skank asses out of this state. The simple fact is that there are more fish now then there were in the early 90's were there more fish 40 yrs ago sure there were but their numbers were DECLINING ASSHOLE. Its not like one day we woke up and the fish were gone. It was a process just like it's a process for the stocks to rebound. Like I said you cut and paste the facts to fit your theory but you leave out the facts that don't. As far as confusion on voting let me again correct you asshole. The wording of that amendment was geared towards confusing people into voting the wrong way, your way. The wording was such that if you wanted the net ban to pass your vote had to be "NO" and if you were against the net ban your vote had to be "YES" your commercial net buddies even copied the conservation slogan which was SOS SAVE OUR SEALIFE and all you inbred pickle smooching corn holing assholes could come up with was SOS save our seafood. you were all about deception just as you asked for a SA assessment and it goes against the bullshit that you still hang on to. Crawl back in bed with bubba so you can keep warm. BTW keep coming back. the more you say now the more of an asshole you become and the more people can see you for what you are. A liar and a thief

You want to get started on Manatees. so now you want to be a conservationist? lol OK their are more Manatees now than ever before. Numbers have never been higher. Do more get hit by boats? yup More boats more manatees and all in the same water they are gonna meet. Kiss my ass on the manatee diversion asshole

bumster
02-26-2010, 05:15 AM
LOLIGO do you really want me to put up the manatee statistics here and show everyone your true colors again? Or are you gonna claim another FWC conspiracy because if you look at stats,, I will put the link up for manatee's that goes back to early 70's http://research.myfwc.com/features/view_article.asp?id=12084 click the year and it gives you a breakdown by county and cause. look at the numbers by watercraft and natural causes. I guess this conservation shit can work. BTW I hate going thru manatee zones . Go back inside learn to do research before you come out guns ablazing and maybe you wont come gunfight with bb gun. Go get yourself a big mouthful and cuddle with bubba. maybe a little spooning so you two can keep warm

loligo
02-26-2010, 05:16 AM
The reason I asked you to post a SA, is because I knew you'd use the FWC cheat sheet.

There's nothing in this for me to gain by lying.

I just refuse to let asses like you appear to be the voice of what is right.

You are out of your mind to think that any commercial fisherman, using nets or otherwise, is all about using up the resource to the detriment of future generations.

I'm glad we had our little merry go round, you lit a fire under my ass to do more to help reinstate gill nets as a legal gear to be used in the fisheries in FL, which BTW has a growing
movement underway as we speak.

I'm going to conclude by saying this-

The real nail in the coffin for the gill net fishery was a few assholes up in New Smyrna Beach who were killing turtles while pompano fishing along the beach. These idiots just wouldn't wait until the turtles had egged and left. This was exactly what the net ban proponents needed to "prove" their point. Unfortunately the actions of a fractional minority of an otherwise honest and conservative multi-generational culture of fish folks put the final nail in the coffin called the net ban.

boatmanalso
02-26-2010, 05:18 AM
SO! Thats your big comeback? LOL grab your boyfriends ass cheeks and get a big bite
6000 pounds dont recall a rec fisherman getting caught with that many fish over, under, outof season combined. Now you know why we kicked your skank ass the fuck out of this state

This shouldn't be used as a reason. There is so many fish out their that its pretty hard to catch so little

bumster
02-26-2010, 05:52 AM
The reason I asked you to post a SA, is because I knew you'd use the FWC cheat sheet.

There's nothing in this for me to gain by lying.

I just refuse to let asses like you appear to be the voice of what is right.

You are out of your mind to think that any commercial fisherman, using nets or otherwise, is all about using up the resource to the detriment of future generations.

I'm glad we had our little merry go round, you lit a fire under my ass to do more to help reinstate gill nets as a legal gear to be used in the fisheries in FL, which BTW has a growing
movement underway as we speak.

I'm going to conclude by saying this-

The real nail in the coffin for the gill net fishery was a few assholes up in New Smyrna Beach who were killing turtles while pompano fishing along the beach. These idiots just wouldn't wait until the turtles had egged and left. This was exactly what the net ban proponents needed to "prove" their point. Unfortunately the actions of a fractional minority of an otherwise honest and conservative multi-generational culture of fish folks put the final nail in the coffin called the net ban.

HA HA HA A few assholes up in New Smyrna beach caused the whole industry in Fl to be outlawed? dam boy you have a degree of stupidity that I have not seen since I don't know when. It wasn't "a couple" it was a majority. Dont try and sell some bullshit about how 70% of voters banned an entire industry because a "few assholes" killed some turtles. I'm sure it played a part but it was not the reason. You keep back peddling
douche bag. You guys have been fighting the net ban for 15 yrs so you keep fighting. The more you fight the worse the netters look. A bunch of thieves and dirven by self centered greed which is what brought you all down in the first place. I am sure your first argument to bring back nets will be the FWC SA since it will support a fishery that has substantially increased in biomass. not only will it support that but it will also support the idea that the fish are themselves substantially larger. Otherwise according to you the fishing is worse now than ever before and if thats true how could you ever hope to open the fishery to nets. Again you're a douche bag and as before i will repeat myself you didn't leave we kicked your skank asses out . now you can leave tubesteak boy, freakin asshole

CMEBoston
02-26-2010, 05:56 AM
according to you, oh and i think 3 others here. I can live with that
As long as i can go out a few times a year and have a good shot at getting a nice sword I am ok. If i can fish the inlet and get a few snook and take one home I am happy and so are all the other narrow minded rec fisherman
Just making sure my point is still made throughout the pages:thumbsup:
its all about you sport.

bumster
02-26-2010, 07:21 AM
Just making sure my point is still made throughout the pages:thumbsup:
its all about you sport.

Keep it up top. Thats where it belongs.If I had my way it would be a sticky.
In fact I think you should come back every few hours and post if for no other reason than to say HI just to keep it on top

PtJudeRI
02-26-2010, 07:31 AM
It's not our fault that other countries can manage their fish populations and sustainably harvest multiple species.

<-food importer.

Hold your horses there cowboy. This biomass problem is in the forefront here in the USA, and we are dealing with it, however poorly. European nations, Asian nations, and the Scandinavian countries have all put their heads in the sand and kept chugging along. There are no sustainable fisheries left in the Mediterranean, South China sea, and other areas. Their boats come to distant waters to fish... like ours.

bumster
02-26-2010, 07:34 AM
Hold your horses there cowboy. This biomass problem is in the forefront here in the USA, and we are dealing with it, however poorly. European nations, Asian nations, and the Scandinavian countries have all put their heads in the sand and kept chugging along. There are no sustainable fisheries left in the Mediterranean, South China sea, and other areas. Their boats come to distant waters to fish... like ours.

I dont know how that got by me earlier. we do a much better job here on management than I think any other country. Our management leaves ALOT to be desired. thats why alot of the imported fish and the shrimp are farm raised.

CMEBoston
02-26-2010, 08:19 AM
Keep it up top. Thats where it belongs.If I had my way it would be a sticky.
In fact I think you should come back every few hours and post if for no other reason than to say HI just to keep it on top
You are doing a fine job of that:thumbsup:
just making sure it is still in context.
Dont worry though, when this thread goes to the bilge it will be lost forever in the left,right and Bipartistan debocle we got going on down in there.

bumster
02-26-2010, 08:24 AM
You are doing a fine job of that:thumbsup:
just making sure it is still in context.
Dont worry though, when this thread goes to the bilge it will be lost forever in the left,right and Bipartistan debocle we got going on down in there.

I am surprised its not there yet. especially with the language i started to use on LOLIGO

loligo
02-26-2010, 09:57 AM
You are nuts Bumster. You must be.

I'm glad you think the net ban was good.

The current condition of the fisheries in FL overall says otherwise.



I never understand how someone will ever think allocating access to fisheries exclusively to one user group, especially for fun, is good.

Net ban aside, S florida is a shit hole, has been for a long time. The water stinks, there's garbage floating in all the canals and you can't see an inch into the water. There's no changing the facts - the waters are polluted, chemically and physically.

The numbers of average table fish are no where near what they were twenty years ago, let alone 30, ever caught pompano in Pompano? I have. I remember seeing schools of Jacks big enough that they could be seen the whole length of the channel at the Port, schools of mullet throwing themselves on the rocks, for days on end. I remember guys fishing under every bridge in town, all catching a variety of pan fish, pins, angels, mangroves, sheepshead all were caught there all the time. I remember catching ten pound sheepshead at Hillsboro and big groves too there. This was 1982, When I left in the late 80's it was still there. When I came back in the early 90's it was still there. I hadn't been back to Lauderdale or S Florida until 2 years ago, I was horrified. Everything is gone. I made the rounds at some great places, 1/2 of which you aren't even allowed to fish anymore.....it's a shame, I'm glad I got to see all that before it was gone. I had it made as a kid, I lived right on Alhambra St 82-84, spring break was awesome - tits everywhere. Fishing was awesome, I fished almost every day year round, especially when I lived on Bayview and had a canalfront dock. It's all gone, I visited a few friends, one guy lives on New River, we used to absolutely kill huge snook all night there, ladys' tarpon shrimp, all kinds of shit hung under his lights, not no more.....it's nothing like it used to be. We used to get crabs off that dock so big they almost wouldn't fit in a buckety, not no more.....



You can't change that Bumster.

I don't want to argue with you anymore, it accomplishes nothing. You are convinced you are right, simple as that.

bumster
02-26-2010, 10:25 AM
You are nuts Bumster. You must be.

I'm glad you think the net ban was good.

The current condition of the fisheries in FL overall says otherwise.



I never understand how someone will ever think allocating access to fisheries exclusively to one user group, especially for fun, is good.

Net ban aside, S florida is a shit hole, has been for a long time. The water stinks, there's garbage floating in all the canals and you can't see an inch into the water. There's no changing the facts - the waters are polluted, chemically and physically.

The numbers of average table fish are no where near what they were twenty years ago, let alone 30, ever caught pompano in Pompano? I have. I remember seeing schools of Jacks big enough that they could be seen the whole length of the channel at the Port, schools of mullet throwing themselves on the rocks, for days on end. I remember guys fishing under every bridge in town, all catching a variety of pan fish, pins, angels, mangroves, sheepshead all were caught there all the time. I remember catching ten pound sheepshead at Hillsboro and big groves too there. This was 1982, When I left in the late 80's it was still there. When I came back in the early 90's it was still there. I hadn't been back to Lauderdale or S Florida until 2 years ago, I was horrified. Everything is gone. I made the rounds at some great places, 1/2 of which you aren't even allowed to fish anymore.....it's a shame, I'm glad I got to see all that before it was gone. I had it made as a kid, I lived right on Alhambra St 82-84, spring break was awesome - tits everywhere. Fishing was awesome, I fished almost every day year round, especially when I lived on Bayview and had a canalfront dock. It's all gone, I visited a few friends, one guy lives on New River, we used to absolutely kill huge snook all night there, ladys' tarpon shrimp, all kinds of shit hung under his lights, not no more.....it's nothing like it used to be. We used to get crabs off that dock so big they almost wouldn't fit in a buckety, not no more.....



You can't change that Bumster.

I don't want to argue with you anymore, it accomplishes nothing. You are convinced you are right, simple as that.

blah blah blah and yet for some reason you want to open our waters to netting.I say the fishing is better than it was 15 yrs ago and you say it's not and in the same post you want to open the waters up to netters. must be commercial fisherman's logic or fuzzy math or some thing like that. I go to Haulover where 15 yrs ago you could fish the tide change and a couple hours into the incoming and maybe get a fish I can do the same today and just fish a couple of hours and hook 8-10 fish. It doesn't really matter you and I will never agree however those nets of old will never be in these waters again and thats a good thing, well it good for all of us that live and fish here

Steve_250
02-26-2010, 11:15 AM
The Chesapeake Bay was a fantastic fishery in the 1970s.
We had big Stripers, Bluefish, and Sea Trout.
The Trout were often up to 3 foot long!

Netting decimated the numbers of Stripers and Trout.
In the 1980s, a Striper ban was put in place.
The ban remained for 3-5 years.
Since then, they have come back big time.

The netting in the bay continues, but now for Menhaden (bait fish) to get fish oil out of for pills.
I believe it's Omega that is doing it.
Their by-catch is everything since the net openings are so small.
Can't say, but perhaps the Bluefish are caught up because they too are chasing the bait.
Well, it's been reported from the company spotter planes that Blues are tearing up the bait.

The Trout prolly won't come back and the Bluefish have dropped by I would GUESS 75%.
Yeah, those fine folks ate up their sardine resources and now they have nothing to show for it.

I forgot to mention the over fished Blue Crabs and Oysters in the Chessie......
None of it decimated by recreational folks.

bumster
02-26-2010, 11:30 AM
The Chesapeake Bay was a fantastic fishery in the 1970s.
We had big Stripers, Bluefish, and Sea Trout.
The Trout were often up to 3 foot long!

Netting decimated the numbers of Stripers and Trout.
In the 1980s, a Striper ban was put in place.
The ban remained for 3-5 years.
Since then, they have come back big time.

The netting in the bay continues, but now for Menhaden (bait fish) to get fish oil out of for pills.
I believe it's Omega that is doing it.
Their by-catch is everything since the net openings are so small.
Can't say, but perhaps the Bluefish are caught up because they too are chasing the bait.
Well, it's been reported from the company spotter planes that Blues are tearing up the bait.

The Trout prolly won't come back and the Bluefish have dropped by I would GUESS 75%.
Yeah, those fine folks ate up their sardine resources and now they have nothing to show for it.

I forgot to mention the over fished Blue Crabs and Oysters in the Chessie......
None of it decimated by recreational folks.

Well if you listen to LOLIGO he will tell you that they don't exploit the fishery why would
they lie. Commercial fisherman cant be allowed to fish with gear that is indiscriminate in its technique because it will catch anything in its path and it kills everything

GerryRM3
02-26-2010, 05:18 PM
The Chesapeake Bay was a fantastic fishery in the 1970s.
We had big Stripers, Bluefish, and Sea Trout.
The Trout were often up to 3 foot long!

Netting decimated the numbers of Stripers and Trout.
In the 1980s, a Striper ban was put in place.
The ban remained for 3-5 years.
Since then, they have come back big time.

The netting in the bay continues, but now for Menhaden (bait fish) to get fish oil out of for pills.
I believe it's Omega that is doing it.
Their by-catch is everything since the net openings are so small.
Can't say, but perhaps the Bluefish are caught up because they too are chasing the bait.
Well, it's been reported from the company spotter planes that Blues are tearing up the bait.

The Trout prolly won't come back and the Bluefish have dropped by I would GUESS 75%.
Yeah, those fine folks ate up their sardine resources and now they have nothing to show for it.

I forgot to mention the over fished Blue Crabs and Oysters in the Chessie......
None of it decimated by recreational folks.


I agree with all of what you put down on your post, especialy the part about Omega, but the Oysters and crabs are also getting killed off by polution from the Susquhana river emtying into the head of the bay. Its affecting all the species living within the bay. Had a real good conversation about it at the Maritime Museum in St Michaels this past October with one of the people that repairs fishermens boats and that was his opinion.The Oysters have also been hit by some form of disease that nobody can find a cure for and scientists are looking at the polution as the cause but no joy so far..

chucketzel
02-26-2010, 06:33 PM
The cannery was in maine. I do not believe the majority
of people who post here really give commercial fishermen a fair shot. And I know you don't give a crap about the 130 people out of a job in Prospect harbor. Commercial fishing is a great thing when stocks are sustainably harvested. There is a huge resource out there and a percentage of alot of species can be taken without affecting the population. It is unfortunate when fishers have mass discards and fish unremorsefully . It is a real shame that commercial fishing has a stigma of rape and killing.

bumster
02-26-2010, 07:41 PM
The cannery was in maine. I do not believe the majority
of people who post here really give commercial fishermen a fair shot. And I know you don't give a crap about the 130 people out of a job in Prospect harbor. Commercial fishing is a great thing when stocks are sustainably harvested. There is a huge resource out there and a percentage of alot of species can be taken without affecting the population. It is unfortunate when fishers have mass discards and fish unremorsefully . It is a real shame that commercial fishing has a stigma of rape and killing.

Maybe we should call it a "History" of rape and killing

loligo
02-27-2010, 04:13 AM
Yep it's a shamew that the men who risk their lives to put food on folks plates are all too often unjustly demonized, yet we glorify little dicked pansies who hurt fish for fun and bragging rights........

loligo
02-27-2010, 04:18 AM
I often wonder when I'm leaving in the AM, on my way out the channel and I see all the fly rod faggots fishing for schoolies.......who's home f'n your wife while you're out here hurting bass with your fag friends? Almost always a 1/2 a dozen floaters in the channel, killed for fun, awesome!

BACKTOTHESEA
02-27-2010, 04:31 AM
I often wonder when I'm leaving in the AM, on my way out the channel and I see all the fly rod faggots fishing for schoolies.......who's home f'n your wife while you're out here hurting bass with your fag friends? Almost always a 1/2 a dozen floaters in the channel, killed for fun, awesome!

You know something, you are a douchbag. You go crying on for pages about how a few netters in FL gave all netters a bad name and now all the rec fisherman are little dicked fags and start busing on fly fishermen. F you and I don't even fly fish.

and as to "risking lives" to put food on peoples plates. You know, they actually sell chicken and fish and fruit and vegetables at the supermatket.

I have nothing against most commercial guys, especially rod and reel, but you have enlightened me as to perhaps I should reconsider. A good spokesperson you are not.

loligo
02-27-2010, 05:02 AM
too funny.......seems as if you must like eating antibiotic laden - hormone enhanced junk food. That you'd rather play with fish than eat them.

In all seriousness, it's absolutely ridiculous that guys are willing to argue to the ends of the earth, their "right" to hurt animals for sport - as opposed to their right to eat safe and fresh food, caught by someone local who spends their money locally........as opposed to buying food from unknown foreign sources, who have zero safety standards and zero interest in our economy.

Y'all rally for your rights to buy tilapia and cesspool raised prawns and see who salutes that flag.

BACKTOTHESEA
02-27-2010, 05:19 AM
too funny.......seems as if you must like eating antibiotic laden - hormone enhanced junk food. That you'd rather play with fish than eat them.

In all seriousness, it's absolutely ridiculous that guys are willing to argue to the ends of the earth, their "right" to hurt animals for sport - as opposed to their right to eat safe and fresh food, caught by someone local who spends their money locally........as opposed to buying food from unknown foreign sources, who have zero safety standards and zero interest in our economy.

Y'all rally for your rights to buy tilapia and cesspool raised prawns and see who salutes that flag.

Actually, I only buy local shellfish and lobster and catch my own fish. For scallops I only buy flash frozed sea scallops from USA, as they are fresher than what I see as fresh in the markets. I gave up swordfish as I am vehimently against longlining. Not debatable to me. Not a big fan of all the netting of groundfish, but hey, if it done sustainably then so be it. Do not think stripers should be afforded sportfish status and have no problem with the current commercial harvest of them. Opposed to the inshore harvest of Menhaden as is decimates the local supply and has a profound negative impact on the local commercial fishery (I consider guides commercial). The overall biomass is supposadly healthy but not targeted inshore areas. Also against Purse seining for Tuna or Herring. Believe that one of the greatest risks to the health of our seas (at least locally) is generally the harvest of fish that never ends up in the store, rather it becomes fertilizer, dog and cat food, crab and lobster bait and farm raised fish food.

Seems like common sense to me, but I am sure there is someone out there that is in one of these industries and will gome back with ten reasons why it is needed.

bumster
02-27-2010, 07:37 AM
too funny.......seems as if you must like eating antibiotic laden - hormone enhanced junk food. That you'd rather play with fish than eat them.

In all seriousness, it's absolutely ridiculous that guys are willing to argue to the ends of the earth, their "right" to hurt animals for sport - as opposed to their right to eat safe and fresh food, caught by someone local who spends their money locally........as opposed to buying food from unknown foreign sources, who have zero safety standards and zero interest in our economy.

Y'all rally for your rights to buy tilapia and cesspool raised prawns and see who salutes that flag.

Why don't you suck bubba's ass this morning you sniveling ass hound. I don't want to BUY your f'n fish I would rather catch my own. I don't want you fishing an area to extinction. If the fishing is worse here than it was 20 years ago why would you want to legalize netting here again ? what would be the point of fishing an area that as you say is already fished out? You don't know how to fish in moderation it's always been the same F'n thing with ass munchers like you and again it's why we kicked your cry baby asses out of Florida. you should have stayed gone douche bag. We outlawed you in Fl and all you did was break the law and what we should have done was throw your skank ass in jail SUNK YOUR BOATS and let your ass rot in a cell because you only care about yourselves. If you really cared about what you were doing you would have used the whole fish when you were wiping out the mullet population instead you stripped the row at 2.00 a pound and discard the remains because it only got you .25 cents a pound. fuck you and the boat you floated in tubesteak boy

bumster
02-27-2010, 07:44 AM
I often wonder when I'm leaving in the AM, on my way out the channel and I see all the fly rod faggots fishing for schoolies.......who's home f'n your wife while you're out here hurting bass with your fag friends? Almost always a 1/2 a dozen floaters in the channel, killed for fun, awesome!

Not something you need to worry about since all you have at home is bubba's hairy ass and tubesteak. You ass clown

A half dozen "floaters" in the channel. Your F'n boats have a chum line going after you pull a set. You need to suck some more ass douche bag

boatmanalso
02-27-2010, 04:03 PM
You know something, you are a douchbag. You go crying on for pages about how a few netters in FL gave all netters a bad name and now all the rec fisherman are little dicked fags and start busing on fly fishermen. F you and I don't even fly fish.

and as to "risking lives" to put food on peoples plates. You know, they actually sell chicken and fish and fruit and vegetables at the supermatket.

I have nothing against most commercial guys, especially rod and reel, but you have enlightened me as to perhaps I should reconsider. A good spokesperson you are not.

"risking lives"

Yes, I don't think most people realize, Commercial fishing is amoung the most dangerious occupations there is. Due to regulation changes, Its worse now.

bumster
02-27-2010, 04:10 PM
"risking lives"

Yes, I don't think most people realize, Commercial fishing is amoung the most dangerious occupations there is. Due to regulation changes, Its worse now.

you've been watching Deadliest Catch to much. Not much of a comparison between those guys and a few assholes cleaning out all the fish inshore. And no comparison to the job asshounds like LOLIGO do. You should stay home boatie this is way out of your league
and another thing boatie why don't you grow a pair and put something in a post that is above the 3rd grade level instead of standing on the sidelines and pitching half thoughts on something you know nothing about.lol As before boatie you're to stupid for me to even respond to you any more.

boatmanalso
02-27-2010, 04:26 PM
you've been watching Deadliest Catch to much. Not much of a comparison between those guys and a few assholes cleaning out all the fish inshore. And no comparison to the job asshounds like LOLIGO do. You should stay home boatie this is way out of your league
and another thing boatie why don't you grow a pair and put something in a post that is above the 3rd grade level instead of standing on the sidelines and pitching half thoughts on something you know nothing about.lol As before boatie you're to stupid for me to even respond to you any more.


It doesn't matter if you are fishing Alaska, Florida, the Northeast or wherever, dead due to commercial fishing on any scale is still dead. There is no out of league.

GerryRM3
02-27-2010, 04:50 PM
Its a shame that what started out as a good dicussion deterierated with two cyber supermen on steroids trying to outdo each other with jr high school insults.
Take the conversation to e mail where it won't clog up the bandwidth with juvenile junk.

And if you want background for my comments I grew up lobster fishing, Navy, merchant marine and went to college for electrical engineering after I smartened up. Boat owner my whole life and still help pull nets once in a while for a friend. I know both sides of the story so cry wolf in another direction. Its got to many pieces of the pie to blame one cause for the screw up in the fisheries. Uncle Sam has his head up his butt when he doesn't listen to both sides and makes abitrary rules with broken science.

I think the guy that depicts himself as a commercial fisherman and can't express himself by putting up an intelligent argument on the problems of his vocation and ways to improve the situation is one poor example of how not to endear fishermen to the general public.

boatmanalso
02-27-2010, 05:00 PM
"I think the guy that depicts himself as a commercial fisherman and can't express himself by putting up an intelligent argument on the problems of his vocation and ways to improve the situation is one poor example of how not to endear fishermen to the general public"

I thought you knew both sides... about the only thing left for a commercial fisherman to do is stop fishing, He has done just about evrything else. Commercial fishing for a livelyhood is suppositly paying bills. How many bills can you pay when you are only allopwed 800 lbs of something and the guy gets in to find the price is 25 cents a lb.

bumster
02-27-2010, 05:16 PM
"I think the guy that depicts himself as a commercial fisherman and can't express himself by putting up an intelligent argument on the problems of his vocation and ways to improve the situation is one poor example of how not to endear fishermen to the general public"

I thought you knew both sides... about the only thing left for a commercial fisherman to do is stop fishing, He has done just about evrything else. Commercial fishing for a livelyhood is suppositly paying bills. How many bills can you pay when you are only allopwed 800 lbs of something and the guy gets in to find the price is 25 cents a lb.

I may have gone just a wee bit overboard due to LOLIGO's bullshit. but just a wee bit. Some of these guys have a place but their place is not to decimate a species and then move on to the next. I have to follow the rules they make for rec fisherman which get a bit tighter all the time for example, Snook season is closed till the end of summer at a minimum due to the cold weather we have had in Florida and usually there is a winter snook season. Whatever, it is what it is and I will stick to it. the slot is now a 4 inch
window 28-32 inches. As far as them doing just about everything , that's bullshit they haven't and the penalties for breaking the law make it so it is actually worth it because the payout is greater than the fine. Now I am speaking about Florida and what Florida does. You don't get sympathy from the rec boaters when you overfish and break the law. This whole thing started over a processor going out of business. Why do you think this happened? It wasn't an overabundance of fish that I can tell you. The fish are GONE! they haven't migrated they are GONE! This is what needs to be stopped and commercial guys don't want to stop it. For them to stop means they have to catch less fish and that means less money. Flip side is what has happened in alot of places. The fish are gone the fisherman are gone so the result is the same. No fish, No fisherman, and no processors

boatmanalso
02-27-2010, 05:22 PM
I may have gone just a wee bit overboard due to LOLIGO's bullshit. but just a wee bit. Some of these guys have a place but their place is not to decimate a species and then move on to the next. I have to follow the rules they make for rec fisherman which get a bit tighter all the time for example, Snook season is closed till the end of summer at a minimum due to the cold weather we have had in Florida and usually there is a winter snook season. Whatever, it is what it is and I will stick to it. the slot is now a 4 inch
window 28-32 inches. As far as them doing just about everything , that's bullshit they haven't and the penalties for breaking the law make it so it is actually worth it because the payout is greater than the fine. Now I am speaking about Florida and what Florida does. You don't get sympathy from the rec boaters when you overfish and break the law. This whole thing started over a processor going out of business. Why do you think this happened? It wasn't an overabundance of fish that I can tell you. The fish are GONE! they haven't migrated they are GONE! This is what needs to be stopped and commercial guys don't want to stop it. For them to stop means they have to catch less fish and that means less money. Flip side is what has happened in alot of places. The fish are gone the fisherman are gone so the result is the same. No fish, No fisherman, and no processors

" It wasn't an overabundance"

Actually there is according to reports by NMFS. But the plan to reduce catches is the plan. It doesn't matter whats going on out there. the plan is to rebuild stocks to allow foreign countries to come wipe the supply out again. I can't imagine what they are trading for this as a payoff??????

ladyjane
02-27-2010, 05:29 PM
I have seen stocks come back since 1994 were there was hardly a haddock on the boat. NOw they are all over the place it boils down to bad science and bad goverment these Idiots do not even go out on the water and then run there mouths!

bumster
02-27-2010, 05:40 PM
" It wasn't an overabundance"

Actually there is according to reports by NMFS. But the plan to reduce catches is the plan. It doesn't matter whats going on out there. the plan is to rebuild stocks to allow foreign countries to come wipe the supply out again. I can't imagine what they are trading for this as a payoff??????

Don't even get me started on foreign countries exploiting our resources
Don't get me started on exporting our fish and importing theirs.One the reasons the price paid by these processors is so low is the cheap imported farm raised fish that we import.

bumster
02-27-2010, 05:43 PM
I have seen stocks come back since 1994 were there was hardly a haddock on the boat. NOw they are all over the place it boils down to bad science and bad goverment these Idiots do not even go out on the water and then run there mouths!

I have a question for you, Who should do the research? clearly the government cant do it and clearly the commercial fisherman cant be trusted to do it either. Who could we get that could be trusted by all. this means that the commercial lobbyists would have to stay out of it and the rec lobbyists would also have to stay clear

GerryRM3
02-27-2010, 05:45 PM
I can't see fishermen stop fishing but I can see net sizes adjusted. I can't see it when you pull a net and because the bycatch is a fish that is "out of season" is wasted and thrown back dead. Makes no sense at all. Fishermen can adjust to the different regulations by gearing up for the seasons and different fisheries but it take mega bucks to be ready for every oportunity and they don't have that available to them. At least not the little guy.
They tie up and worry about paying the mortage on their house and boat.

The rec fisherman has a duty to adhear to the same rules the commercial guy follows but how many idiots don't even follow what area is closed or open. They only know the fish are supposed to be there at a certain time of year so they fish for em in the closed area. Bust em.

I'me talking about New England. I know not to much about Florida because I've only fished there a couple times and it cost me a good sum to do it.

If a ban on catching baitfish is in order to preserve the food source for the bigger more desireable fish do it. Don't argue about it, try it and see what happens. Don't expect mother natures spawning time to change for a law made to start whatever 1st and end whatever 30th. Go with the optimum temperatures and tides to adjust the season and keep everybody out of the picture, commercial and reqcreational both.

Just some ideas. Attend the fisheries meetings and see what is discussed and who is there. Get to know them. Hopefully the panelists will change with the adjustments to the makeup of the panels to better reflect both side of the equation.

I've been out of the business full time for a long time but my family is still in it. One nephew out of Gloucester and a Brother in Law who owns another boat there. If you don't think that doesn't affect me as a req fisherman your wrong. Its personel and I want to see the fisheries come back.

boatmanalso
02-27-2010, 05:46 PM
I have a question for you, Who should do the research? clearly the government cant do it and clearly the commercial fisherman cant be trusted to do it either. Who could we get that could be trusted by all. this means that the commercial lobbyists would have to stay out of it and the rec lobbyists would also have to stay clear

He is right ,there is haddock all over the place.

GerryRM3
02-27-2010, 05:55 PM
To bad the biomass of haddock isn't measured accuratly. or any foodfish for that matter. I haven't got a clue as to how they can measure something that can move unseen in the ocean, Their best guess is only that. The reporting has to be accurate on catches brought up in the trawl. All of it. You can't put an observer on every boat and test catches are just that, a test on that particular area at that time and place. doesn't give you the whole picture. Just like a camera with a fixed lense gets its picture cut off from whats in the viewfinder.

auguste
02-27-2010, 06:43 PM
114 of the lowest paying jobs you can imagine

If like in Canada, many only barely make a living

I hope they all find a better job

bumster
02-27-2010, 07:04 PM
For such a large industry someone is making the money. Who is it? Because if it's the processors then maybe they need to be looked at. I'm just sayin
Something has to be done. We cant have the fisherman taking fish till an area of ocean is empty. Commercial fisherman cant be allowed to take and take and take and then move to another area. we need to be able to put a number, a real number on biomass. You cant just let the industry police itself because they have demonstrated that they cant.I'm not saying the government can but I know the fisherman cant so clearly we need to do something that will fix the problem

blackfinmike
02-28-2010, 05:33 AM
"risking lives"

Yes, I don't think most people realize, Commercial fishing is amoung the most dangerious occupations there is. Due to regulation changes, Its worse now.

Then please take loligo with you fishing, hopefully neither of you will come back:thumbsup:

boatmanalso
02-28-2010, 05:50 AM
Then please take loligo with you fishing, hopefully neither of you will come back:thumbsup:

Since 1/3 of the family I married into and slightly less just seems to be the normal for death while commercial fishing, I'd say there is about a 25% chance that I will die while fishing. I'm going fishing now. If I never post again, concider your wish came true.

GerryRM3
02-28-2010, 06:19 AM
A very good example of how a closed area of a fishery can bounce back is Georges Bank and the scallop beds. They were close for a period, I'me not sure how long exactly, but when it was opened up the catch was great. Thats realy a fixed fishery type of thing but its a good example of what can happen. The allowed total catch weights can be adjusted on the size of the scallop itself. When the size starts to go down the fishery should be adjusted to let it grow.

Cod fishermen know where the spawning grounds are and the times of year to go there. Thats been passed down from father to son over the generations. We had a closur south of Gloucester this past season on one of those areas. Keeping those types of actions going is what will bring the stocks back. Doesn't make anyone happy, but to bad. I'd rather have the fishery around with good catch regulations than loose it entirely like Newfoundland did.

Marine bioligists can tell the age of species of fish so they know how a spawning year went and adjust the weights caught on that type of science. A bad spawning year group need to get to the age where it can reproduce so net mesh size adjustments need to be made. The scientist are judgeing the size of the biomass by the data collected in test trawls but like I said I don't trust them compleatly however its the best thing we've got right now.

Steve_250
02-28-2010, 07:08 AM
Then please take loligo with you fishing, hopefully neither of you will come back:thumbsup:
Come on, this comment was really uncalled for....
No matter how much we fuss and fight on here, going over the line just ain't right.

bumster
02-28-2010, 07:47 AM
Come on, this comment was really uncalled for....
No matter how much we fuss and fight on here, going over the line just ain't right.

LOLIGO came out guns ablazing and swearing like a drunken sailor with a personal attack on me. Go back and read his first post. everyone was pretty much civil. A little heated maybe but for the most part civil until he opened his yap.

GerryRM3
02-28-2010, 08:00 AM
LOLIGO came out guns ablazing and swearing like a drunken sailor with a personal attack on me. Go back and read his first post. everyone was pretty much civil. A little heated maybe but for the most part civil until he opened his yap.

Bumster he was refering to the statement by blackfinmike and I agree with steve. It was an ignorant comment.

bumster
02-28-2010, 08:46 AM
Bumster he was refering to the statement by blackfinmike and I agree with steve. It was an ignorant comment.

I know what he was referring to. I'm just telling you why he did it. We had a fairly heated thread going on when LOLIGO jumped in with the swearing and personal attacks which was totally uncalled for. I don't wish death on anybody and yeah it was probably a bit harsh but i guess you get what you dish out around here. still surprised this thread hasn't landed in the bilge myself. Point is we were all doing just fine till LOLIGO jumped talkin smack

auguste
02-28-2010, 11:49 AM
Time for everyone to take a cold shower and come back AFTER the men's Olympic gold medal hockey game

bumster
02-28-2010, 12:03 PM
Time for everyone to take a cold shower and come back AFTER the men's Olympic gold medal hockey game
It's already settled down. finally

y'sguy
02-28-2010, 02:50 PM
There is one thing over the past few years that the commerical {cold water shrimpers }have done ,not on thier own they were regultated to . There is an escape outlet that lets much of the bycatch out . Prior to this they destroyed the small fish that would normally in a larger mesh net stand a chance of getting out in the shrimp net there was no escape .
Many blame the shrimpers in southern Maine as the reason there are no flounders in the bays and rivers in this area . The lobster guy's get a very few in thier traps but you cannot go out and catch any . There would be flounders right at my mooring if not for draggers . They were not all caught up by rod and reelers . I cannot take my grandkids out and catch a couple and show them the things I saw as a kid .

blackfinmike
02-28-2010, 04:15 PM
Bumster he was refering to the statement by blackfinmike and I agree with steve. It was an ignorant comment.

Where were you when that idiot (loligo) came out busting all over to Bumster throughout with nothing but cursing him out all over the place.

Boatman knows that comment was very light, because it was a post to his post about that he has the most dangerous job in the world, but how is this when he is on the computer everyday;?

boatmanalso
02-28-2010, 04:42 PM
Where were you when that idiot (loligo) came out busting all over to Bumster throughout with nothing but cursing him out all over the place.

Boatman knows that comment was very light, because it was a post to his post about that he has the most dangerous job in the world, but how is this when he is on the computer everyday;?

I didn't say I had the most dangerious job in the world. I said post 191 "Commercial fishing is amoung the most dangerious occupations there is"

I am posting often because I am here not getting paid for all these compliances I am now required to do. I went out fishing like I said I was. Alot of what I did was install bio clips which seem to dissapear after a noreaster. Which is also a none paying task out on the ocean,

I don't think your comment about getting killed out on the ocean is funny

blackfinmike
02-28-2010, 05:05 PM
I didn't say I had the most dangerious job in the world. I said post 191 "Commercial fishing is amoung the most dangerious occupations there is"

I am posting often because I am here not getting paid for all these compliances I am now required to do. I went out fishing like I said I was. Alot of what I did was install bio clips which seem to dissapear after a noreaster. Which is also a none paying task out on the ocean,

I don't think your comment about getting killed out on the ocean is funny

Didn't want you to die, just not come back on this thread:rofl::rofl:

If you took it that way, then I am sorry

PtJudeRI
03-01-2010, 04:17 AM
This should be the appropriate time for me to enter back in and kick up some dust, but Im a bit hung over, and have nothing witty to say. So you all have a pass. Those damn canucks took the wind out of my sails.

boatmanalso
03-01-2010, 05:12 AM
Didn't want you to die, just not come back on this thread:rofl::rofl:

If you took it that way, then I am sorry

OK ,I can accept that. Maybe the confussion is due to regional slang.

bumster
03-01-2010, 02:34 PM
Thank god this finally ended

boatmanalso
03-01-2010, 02:39 PM
Well it did end until you bumped it;?;?;?

The bilge isn't this bad

CMEBoston
03-01-2010, 06:14 PM
according to you, oh and i think 3 others here. I can live with that
As long as i can go out a few times a year and have a good shot at getting a nice sword I am ok. If i can fish the inlet and get a few snook and take one home I am happy and so are all the other narrow minded rec fisherman
Read it here pepole, the root of the issue. Selfishness at its best.

its all about YOU Sport:thumbsup:

bumster
03-01-2010, 06:29 PM
Read it here pepole, the root of the issue. Selfishness at its best.

its all about YOU Sport:thumbsup:

It's all about me? why? because I want to go out and catch my own fish and not buy it from a market? Typical ! You think you should be allowed to take whatever you want and then I should have to buy your fish? LOL I don't think so. There you have it people the real agenda from the commercial fisherman. Rec fisherman should have to buy their fish from the commercial guys so they can stay in business. Sorry dude as it is I subsidize enough groups I am not adding another group.

CMEBoston
03-02-2010, 06:22 AM
No, Pepole should be able to buy fish straight off the boat if they want. And I never said I or other commercial fisherman should be able to take all they want. again, why should you get fresh fish and others without the means to catch themselves should not? this question has yet to be answered. You are an elitist sport fisherman. I am not saying, by any means, that all sporties are selfish. but you prove that you certainly are with your posts.
there are rules and regulations in effect that MOST commercial fishermen abide by, yet you generlize them all in the pillagers of the sea category cause you saw some poachers commit crimes. THAT DOES NOT MAKE ALL COMMERCIAL FISHERMEN CRIMINALS!

Steve_250
03-02-2010, 06:33 AM
By all means, ppl should be able to go to the store and purchase fresh fish.
We all agree (I think) that there isn't a reputable governing body setting catch limits.
Areas should not be fish to depletion, by anyone.
If stocks go down (number or size), it needs to be shut off to netters and long-liners, and stricter limits on the recreational ppl.
It worked for Reds and Stripers, why not others?
If a store doesn't have a certain species available, so be it, select another or have a pork chop.

We all agree that something must be done.
You guys doing the writing in this thread are intelligent and know what's going on.
Let's use some gray matter and figure out how we can help.

CMEBoston
03-02-2010, 06:36 AM
By all means, ppl should be able to go to the store and purchase fresh fish.
We all agree (I think) that there isn't a reputable governing body setting catch limits.
Areas should not be fish to depletion, by anyone.
If stocks go down (number or size), it needs to be shut off to netters and long-liners, and stricter limits on the recreational ppl.
It worked for Reds and Stripers, why not others?
If a store doesn't had a certain species available, so be it, select another or have a pork chop.

We all agree that something must be done.
You guys doing the writing in this thread are intelligent and know what's going on.
Let's use some gray matter and figure out how we can help.
No, it should be shut off completely, again what makes a Rec. fisheman special? that is the question yet to be answered. And dont give me the usual rec guys dont do as much damage song and dance. the amout of rec guys out there guthooking short stripers is enough to shoot that defense right out of the sky.

Steve_250
03-02-2010, 06:37 AM
One fish, or C&R versus 1000 fish.
Fine, if it needs to be shut down, like with the Stripers, the chips fall where they may.

joro
03-02-2010, 09:50 AM
No, it should be shut off completely, again what makes a Rec. fisheman special? that is the question yet to be answered. And dont give me the usual rec guys dont do as much damage song and dance. the amout of rec guys out there guthooking short stripers is enough to shoot that defense right out of the sky.


And those 3 mile bycatch slicks of dead stripers or fluke that ultimately turn up every year are from rec's guthooking shorties. Please! I agree if the fishery is shut down for the commercial guys it should be shut down for everybody or at least severely restricted, but don't start yappin about rec's and comm boats and who kills more fish. Its not even close. Thats a retarded arguement. Opps....we're not allowed to use that "R" word up here in MA anymore. Shame on me.

bumster
03-02-2010, 10:22 AM
And those 3 mile bycatch slicks of dead stripers or fluke that ultimately turn up every year are from rec's guthooking shorties. Please! I agree if the fishery is shut down for the commercial guys it should be shut down for everybody or at least severely restricted, but don't start yappin about rec's and comm boats and who kills more fish. Its not even close. Thats a retarded arguement. Opps....we're not allowed to use that "R" word up here in MA anymore. Shame on me.

those slicks caused by the by-catch don't count. Haven't you figured that out yet? lol
Just the notion that a rec fisherman catches even close to the same amount as a commercial fisherman is ludicrous.

boatmanalso
03-02-2010, 10:51 AM
And those 3 mile bycatch slicks of dead stripers or fluke that ultimately turn up every year are from rec's guthooking shorties. Please! I agree if the fishery is shut down for the commercial guys it should be shut down for everybody or at least severely restricted, but don't start yappin about rec's and comm boats and who kills more fish. Its not even close. Thats a retarded arguement. Opps....we're not allowed to use that "R" word up here in MA anymore. Shame on me.

You only see slicks because of regulations. This is where the big mistake is. Recs think its a waist and so do commercial. If a commercial guy dumps excess , recs complain, If the commercial guy doesn't dump the excess he will be fined and maybe have his boat takin. So blame the regulations for the slick. There is very good ways to deal with extra catch other tahn dumping it so the recs see the waste.

bumster
03-02-2010, 10:55 AM
You only see slicks because of regulations. This is where the big mistake is. Recs think its a waist and so do commercial. If a commercial guy dumps excess , recs complain, If the commercial guy doesn't dump the excess he will be fined and maybe have his boat takin. So blame the regulations for the slick. There is very good ways to deal with extra catch other tahn dumping it so the recs see the waste.

So now we are going to throw out size limits and just take whatever ends up in the net or on a 20 mile longline. Which of course means Juviniles, gamefish, protected fish. Yuppers , thats a solution. Thats the kind of thinking that depletes the fishery in the first place. lol Great idea

CMEBoston
03-02-2010, 12:14 PM
So you see one slick of dead stripers and assume it happens every tow or trip even? how many days at sea do you think a dragger gets compared to a rec boat? do you honestly belive a dragger fishes as many days as a recreational boat?
How many striper slicks have you seen personally? and I dont mean on the internet.

PtJudeRI
03-02-2010, 12:17 PM
Handlines, rod and reel, and Harpoon.

Ditch the nets, trawls, longlines and weir traps.

Discriminate tools to target specific species. Fish becomes a delicacy, stocks go up, everyone has time to reevaluate the fisheries management models and come up with something that Works. I understand and respect the need for commercial fishing. Hell, I don't want to catch sardines and eels, but the endless harvesting has to end sometime... Hopefully there are some fish left when it does.

Oh well.... nice to dream. :(

PtJudeRI
03-02-2010, 12:25 PM
So you see one slick of dead stripers and assume it happens every tow or trip even? how many days at sea do you think a dragger gets compared to a rec boat? do you honestly belive a dragger fishes as many days as a recreational boat?
How many striper slicks have you seen personally? and I dont mean on the internet.

Not at all, but I would be sure that the draggers take on his days will dwarf a rec fisherman's totals for the month. Lets say a 31 day month. A rec angler can harvest 62 fish, lets average them out at 30lbs each... (can you get a dragger to average fish at 30 lbs. a trawl?) Net total for the month = 1860 lbs. Fishing EVERY DAY. Cut that down to a weekend warrior (the vast majority) and you have 10 days on the high side... Thats 20 fish... 500 lbs.

I personally have seen slicks of stripers (only 2 or 3), whiting (many more) and other bycatch (assorted groundfish) over the past 5 years or so... And Im out one day a week, maybe 2....

boatmanalso
03-02-2010, 12:42 PM
So now we are going to throw out size limits and just take whatever ends up in the net or on a 20 mile longline. Which of course means Juviniles, gamefish, protected fish. Yuppers , thats a solution. Thats the kind of thinking that depletes the fishery in the first place. lol Great idea

No all commercial fishing is from a 20 mile longline. What happens when a 20 mile longline comes up with no fish? What makes you think every hook has aJuvinile fish on it? Why is it OK for you to use a hook but a ccommercial fisherman can't? Who said the fisheries is depleted?

boatmanalso
03-02-2010, 12:43 PM
So you see one slick of dead stripers and assume it happens every tow or trip even? how many days at sea do you think a dragger gets compared to a rec boat? do you honestly belive a dragger fishes as many days as a recreational boat?
How many striper slicks have you seen personally? and I dont mean on the internet.

I''m out there alot and I never saw a slick.

PtJudeRI
03-02-2010, 12:44 PM
I''m out there alot and I never saw a slick.

That's because you are out checking your commercial lobster pots...

boatmanalso
03-02-2010, 12:45 PM
Handlines, rod and reel, and Harpoon.

Ditch the nets, trawls, longlines and weir traps.

Discriminate tools to target specific species. Fish becomes a delicacy, stocks go up, everyone has time to reevaluate the fisheries management models and come up with something that Works. I understand and respect the need for commercial fishing. Hell, I don't want to catch sardines and eels, but the endless harvesting has to end sometime... Hopefully there are some fish left when it does.

Oh well.... nice to dream. :(

Bump said a hook discriminates and you say they don't? Which is it?

bumster
03-02-2010, 12:46 PM
So you see one slick of dead stripers and assume it happens every tow or trip even? how many days at sea do you think a dragger gets compared to a rec boat? do you honestly belive a dragger fishes as many days as a recreational boat?
How many striper slicks have you seen personally? and I dont mean on the internet.
So now bycatch is not in every set? LOL you've got to be joking. nothing undersize and a whole net full of exactly what you were fishing for? You keep trying to sell that crap but I don't think anyone will buy it.

Does a dragger fish as much ? No! does he take more fish ? Yes
fish stocks don't shrink on the massive scale that they do due to rec fisherman. I know I know thats the party line for the commercial lobby. no one bought it 15 yrs ago and no one is buying it now. But you keep pushing it. like you said, It's All About You Sport.HA HA HA

bumster
03-02-2010, 12:49 PM
No all commercial fishing is from a 20 mile longline. What happens when a 20 mile longline comes up with no fish? What makes you think every hook has aJuvinile fish on it? Why is it OK for you to use a hook but a ccommercial fisherman can't? Who said the fisheries is depleted?
I dont fish a 20 mile longline. Sure the commercial guy can use a hook. great no problem not 2k or so in a set

bumster
03-02-2010, 12:52 PM
No all commercial fishing is from a 20 mile longline. What happens when a 20 mile longline comes up with no fish? What makes you think every hook has aJuvinile fish on it? Why is it OK for you to use a hook but a ccommercial fisherman can't? Who said the fisheries is depleted?
I would say that area has NO FREAKIN FISH what would you say. Oh sorry. they migrated right. like the commercial guys don't know migratory patterns of fish in the areas they fish.
You need a better argument because that one sucked lol

PtJudeRI
03-02-2010, 12:52 PM
Bump said a hook discriminates and you say they don't? Which is it?

No... I said "Discriminate tools to target specific species" which refers to my top line of handline, rod and reel, and Harpoon.

Its not often that I am out fishing for stripers and I have a fluke come up on my eel, or a striper whack my tautog rig. Or I harpoon a codfish thinking it is a Bluefin.

A hook discriminates when it is used in certain methods,like rod and reel. On a longline (bump's gripe) there are, for lack of a better term, "unattended hooks" with bait that will often attract many species like tuna, swordfish, various sharks, certain other fish like mahi and wahoo, and who knows what else.

Are you really this dumb or do you just play a retard on THT?

CMEBoston
03-02-2010, 01:20 PM
I am in no way saying bycatch does not happen. but you see one striper slick or mullet racks with no eggs and all of a sudden it happens every tow. My argument is the closing of species to the commercial fishermen and not the rec guys. and I have yet to hear Bumsters response on it because he is a selfish elitest sporty who owns the ocean and is no better than the worst commercial guy.

CMEBoston
03-02-2010, 01:21 PM
its a catch 22, while the government should have no say in who can sell or buy fish (IE going down th the boat and buying some fish, as opposed to going through a wholesaler, fishhouse then market) that woul ultimately put mor money in the fishermans pocket but the government wouldnt be able to tax the same fish 4-5 times.
on the otherhand someone has to regulate the commercial and recreational fisheman because there are poachers on both sides.

bumster
03-02-2010, 01:26 PM
I am in no way saying bycatch does not happen. but you see one striper slick or mullet racks with no eggs and all of a sudden it happens every tow. My argument is the closing of species to the commercial fishermen and not the rec guys. and I have yet to hear Bumsters response on it because he is a selfish elitest sporty who owns the ocean and is no better than the worst commercial guy.

Actually alot of the fish I target do have a closed season. They have very narrow slot limits and If I catch one that is out of season or out of the slot at least I can release it. You guys don't have that option If you get it in your gear its pretty much dead. Argue that all you want but you cant change reality. It's plain to see that you are trying to sidestep reality but what else can we expect from the commercial fishing industry.LOL It's pretty much what you do.

CMEBoston
03-02-2010, 01:38 PM
Actually alot of the fish I target do have a closed season. They have very narrow slot limits and If I catch one that is out of season or out of the slot at least I can release it. You guys don't have that option If you get it in your gear its pretty much dead. Argue that all you want but you cant change reality. It's plain to see that you are trying to sidestep reality but what else can we expect from the commercial fishing industry.LOL It's pretty much what you do.
I AM NOT A COMMERCIAL DRAGGERMAN!!!! GET THAT THROUGH YOUR THICK SKULL!!!!

you dont thing a dragger has closed seasons? their season is a hell of alot shorter than a rec season with any species.
Awnser the question, Why should YOU get to catch or eat a threatened species and someone else should not?

bumster
03-02-2010, 02:01 PM
I AM NOT A COMMERCIAL DRAGGERMAN!!!! GET THAT THROUGH YOUR THICK SKULL!!!!

you dont thing a dragger has closed seasons? their season is a hell of alot shorter than a rec season with any species.
Awnser the question, Why should YOU get to catch or eat a threatened species and someone else should not?
Because I fish ONE HOOK AND ONE LINE AT A TIME. IF MY FISH ARE SHORT THEY CAN BE RELEASED. BECAUSE I HAVE LIMITS ALSO BECAUSE I DON'T WANT TO BUY MY FISH FROM SOMEONE ELSE IF I CAN CATCH IT MYSELF. BECAUSE NO AREA HAS BEEN FISHED CLEAN BY A REC FISHERMAN AND COMMERCIALS HAVE A HISTORY OF DOING IT. This thread started because a processing plant closed, why? BECAUSE THE FISH ARE GONE do you think catching sardines is a big rec fishery? I dont think it is. Is it clear to you yet. You want to call me an elitist go ahead. You're entitled to your opinion but for you to try and compare the damage to the fishery that a commercial boat does to that of a rec guy is ludicrous. Most rec guys are weekend fisherman they may fish 8 days in a month and your contention is that a rec guy can compete in numbers with a commercial guy who, during the season will fish nonstop till he reaches his "quota" or the season ends. good argument but it still doesnt work for the majority. As far as people who cant afford to fish or who live in a place where fishing is not possible should they be allowed to buy fish? sure BUT NOT AT MY EXPENSE. we are all eating the fish i like many others prefer to catch mine and not buy it and our take in the fishery is a fraction of what they take. Sorry you don't agree to bad.

CMEBoston
03-02-2010, 02:15 PM
WOW that post is ful of...I,I,I,I, Me,Me, Me, Me,......your a fuc#(ng joke dude.
you have the privelege to catch your own fish, alot dont and rely on commercial fisherman. if we do not suport the US fisheman the fish will be imported from overseas.
I am done exposing you for the selfish F%^K you are.
every other rec guy here can at least see the point I am trying to make but apparently you cannot and feel your veiws are the only views acceptable making you an ELITIST.

bumster
03-02-2010, 02:18 PM
WOW that post is ful of...I,I,I,I, Me,Me, Me, Me,......your a fuc#(ng joke dude.
you have the privelege to catch your own fish, alot dont and rely on commercial fisherman. if we do not suport the US fisheman the fish will be imported from overseas.
I am done exposing you for the selfish F%^K you are.
We already import farm raised from overseas because of our inability to manage our fisheries. MODERATION WHEN YOU DEAL IN BULK
Go Join LOLIGO for a tubesteak smothered in mayo. It's sad that you have degenerated into name calling. it shows that you have no argument left. BU BYE



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