The Boating Forum - Can you Exceed Max HP Rating ???

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View Full Version : Can you Exceed Max HP Rating ???


SoFlo Shark Hunter
09-08-2009, 06:34 AM
Is the max hp rating set in stone? Can you strap on larger motors and still get insurance, coast guard etc... I saw a 26' boat with twin 300's this weekend with a max hp rating of 500, made me wonder about the legality and possibilities...


ElyseM
09-08-2009, 06:46 AM
i doubt you could get coverage. also, if it is a new boat, the mfg would probably void all warranty if you did it. i know for a fact that one mfg has already stated that mounting the new f300's and f350's on prior hulls will void hull warranty (and that's even if you stay in rated hp).

if an accident occurred, i don't think it would help your case if the hp was over rated.

Joe
09-08-2009, 06:55 AM
My insurance company (Travelers) said they didn't care what size engine was on the boat. They said the rates would probably go up due to insuring a bigger engine, but that was it. There are no coast guard laws against going bigger than the plate says, there may be state laws however.

As far as an accident is concerned, i would think engine size would only become important if speed was somehow involved.


SoFlo Shark Hunter
09-08-2009, 03:55 PM
My insurance company (Travelers) said they didn't care what size engine was on the boat. They said the rates would probably go up due to insuring a bigger engine, but that was it. T.


thats cool, i wonder if all insurance co's are like that or just yours?.

Impulse001
09-08-2009, 04:13 PM
My insurance company (Travelers) said they didn't care what size engine was on the boat. They said the rates would probably go up due to insuring a bigger engine, but that was it. There are no coast guard laws against going bigger than the plate says, there may be state laws however.

As far as an accident is concerned, i would think engine size would only become important if speed was somehow involved.

I'm sure insurance companies can spin the story one way or another, for example.. The extra weight of the engines caused the boat to take longer to slow down, causing more damage, etc..

thataway
09-08-2009, 05:14 PM
The more weight on the stern may actually hurt performance, and handling.

stoxbonds
09-08-2009, 05:46 PM
used to ski from a 15 Whaler when I was a kid that had a 90hp on it. Max horse was 70hp. Boat was silly fast and felt overpowered. I'd be careful overpowering a boat. Those ins cos can screw you if and when they want to.

mike carrigan
09-08-2009, 05:59 PM
Is the max hp rating set in stone? Can you strap on larger motors and still get insurance, coast guard etc... I saw a 26' boat with twin 300's this weekend with a max hp rating of 500, made me wonder about the legality and possibilities...

Every possibility is a bad one.
Dont do it.

ABoater
09-08-2009, 06:09 PM
^^^^^^

Yeah, I've seen what a blood thirsty shark of an attorney can do when a person puts on HP in excess of what the label states is the max HP for the boat and then that same boat injures or kills someone.

Thankfully, the shop that I was running at the time didn't sell or install the motor...

Roper01
09-09-2009, 04:42 AM
As I remember, the plate limit is only really set in stone for vessels 20' and under. ;?

m2434
09-09-2009, 06:25 AM
My insurance company (Travelers) said they didn't care what size engine was on the boat. They said the rates would probably go up due to insuring a bigger engine, but that was it. There are no coast guard laws against going bigger than the plate says, there may be state laws however.

As far as an accident is concerned, i would think engine size would only become important if speed was somehow involved.


They're happy to because it's now guaranteed 100% profit for them. They know they get your money and if anything ever happens, they have a perfect excuse to rescind.

Maybe I'm a little too cynical LOL, but seriously, insurance companies can sometimes rescind even if it was the underwriters mistake and not yours. So, I would be careful.... If you ever have a major claim, it does potentially give them ammo.

miike
09-09-2009, 07:45 AM
i have a grady 20hp over the label and its never been an issue

bamaboy473
09-09-2009, 08:06 AM
Every possibility is a bad one.
Dont do it.


X2
that says it all where Insurance Coverage and Personal Liability have any bearing on your decision.

JoeR2
09-09-2009, 08:26 AM
Comon guys, Common Sense 101: Accident where you are found liable, insurance adjuster checks the capacity plate then checks your set up and load to see if you are within all limits. There are reasons why any hull 20' or less has max HP rating. I believe I read somewhere that marine mechanics are not allowed to work on boats that have power in excess of listed maximum - I'll check on that.

JoeR2
09-09-2009, 08:30 AM
Not sure how old this is, but it came from USCG site:
It is not a violation of Coast Guard regulations to install or use an engine larger than specified on the capacity label, but there may be state regulations prohibiting it, and restrictions from your own insurance company regarding this.
There are no Coast Guard regulations against exceeding the safe loading capacity, however, there may be State regulations or restrictions from your insurance company which prohibit this. There is a Coast Guard regulation that gives Coast Guard Boarding Officers the power to terminate the use of a boat (send it back to shore) if, in the judgment of the Boarding Officer, the boat is overloaded. There is no fine for this, unless the operator refuses the Boarding Officer's order. We certainly hope that you will abide by the rating, as overloading may lead to capsizing or swamping of the boat.
NOTE: The Coast Guard Capacity Information label is required only on monohull boats less than 20' in length. The label is not required on multi-hull boats, pontoon boats (catamarans), or on any sailboats, canoes, kayaks, or inflatable boats, regardless of length.

DrJim
09-09-2009, 08:34 AM
I have no idea what "legal weight" these "ratings" carry but all you have to do is look at a few bass boats to know they are a joke. How do those things get rated so high?

SoFlo Shark Hunter
09-09-2009, 11:54 AM
I have no idea what "legal weight" these "ratings" carry but all you have to do is look at a few bass boats to know they are a joke. How do those things get rated so high?


or even a small bay boats with 300's or 350's on them..

mike carrigan
09-09-2009, 05:10 PM
Not sure how old this is, but it came from USCG site:
It is not a violation of Coast Guard regulations to install or use an engine larger than specified on the capacity label, but there may be state regulations prohibiting it, and restrictions from your own insurance company regarding this.
There are no Coast Guard regulations against exceeding the safe loading capacity, however, there may be State regulations or restrictions from your insurance company which prohibit this. There is a Coast Guard regulation that gives Coast Guard Boarding Officers the power to terminate the use of a boat (send it back to shore) if, in the judgment of the Boarding Officer, the boat is overloaded. There is no fine for this, unless the operator refuses the Boarding Officer's order. We certainly hope that you will abide by the rating, as overloading may lead to capsizing or swamping of the boat.
NOTE: The Coast Guard Capacity Information label is required only on monohull boats less than 20' in length. The label is not required on multi-hull boats, pontoon boats (catamarans), or on any sailboats, canoes, kayaks, or inflatable boats, regardless of length.

Not a bad post but open for interpretation.
There is no dealer or manufacturer that I know of that will take the liabilty on of overpowerering a boat.
We post H.P. limits on our products, all sizes.
If someone tells you it's ok, no sweat, believe what you wish.
See you in the deposition.

bigtahuna
09-09-2009, 05:37 PM
I have wondered this same thing as I own a '98 Seacraft 23' CC that is rated at 300HP max, the earlier 23' Seacraft hulls were rated at 400HP, somewhere along the progression they derated the same hull by 100HP. There's a formula somewhere that I just read, for figuring the HP rating, can't remember where. I thought it was on this site somewhere.

bikem
09-10-2009, 07:27 AM
Every possibility is a bad one.
Dont do it.
What about when you are restoring a 87 hull and call the company twice to get the info on the hull max horse power ect. and their response is "We don't have any info on hulls prior to our purchase of the company".http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh129/bikem1/mikesphotos528.jpg?t=1252592136

bikem
09-10-2009, 07:46 AM
Not a bad post but open for interpretation.
There is no dealer or manufacturer that I know of that will take the liabilty on of overpowerering a boat.
We post H.P. limits on our products, all sizes.
If someone tells you it's ok, no sweat, believe what you wish.
See you in the deposition.
So it's the manufactures responsibility to know the horse power rating?

davidkuhlmann
09-10-2009, 07:53 AM
Like I always say, "You can do whatever you want too just as long as you are willing to pay the consequences" :thumbsup:

pastaman1234
09-10-2009, 08:09 AM
There are lots of bass boat manufacturers that have 20' and 21' foot boats with "Unlimited HP" written on the capacity plate. Some of these boats weigh 1500 lbs or less. Evidently there is no rhyme or reason as to how they figure this out. If legally you dont have to have or abide by the capacity plate on a 20' or larger boat and the insurance company is willing to give you insurance knowing the boat is overpowered i dont see how they can hang you for it.

Here is one example:
http://www.blazerboats.com/boats/bass/202-pro-v/

davidkuhlmann
09-10-2009, 08:16 AM
I do know on the Tracker Tundra 21' it used to be 250 hp max then was upgraded to a 300. Well they had transom issues as well as stringer problems even with the 250's. Now the boat is discontinued. Not sure if this is why.

My point is that I believe if the boat is over 21' the manufacturer can HP rate the boat themselves. Not sure but that is what I believe to be true

k9medic
09-10-2009, 10:46 AM
The coast guard formula is (2 x width x length) - 90. The number is then rounded to the nearest 5.

Example: 24ft boat that is 80" wide = 230 max. HP

m2434
09-10-2009, 11:36 AM
The coast guard formula is (2 x width x length) - 90. The number is then rounded to the nearest 5.

Example: 24ft boat that is 80" wide = 230 max. HP

This is the theoretical maximum possible, however, there are other factors taken into account by the manufacture. And from what I understand, for mainly liability reasons, lower capacities are often listed. Also, the formula needs to be modified in some cases, for example if the boat does not have a full transom...

k9medic
09-11-2009, 07:27 AM
This is the theoretical maximum possible, however, there are other factors taken into account by the manufacture. And from what I understand, for mainly liability reasons, lower capacities are often listed. Also, the formula needs to be modified in some cases, for example if the boat does not have a full transom...

True, but this is the basic measure that the CG will use (as will many local LEOs) to determine if your boat is overpowered.

DrJim
09-11-2009, 10:54 AM
The coast guard formula is (2 x width x length) - 90. The number is then rounded to the nearest 5.

Example: 24ft boat that is 80" wide = 230 max. HP

Sounds tippy, however..

On most boats that would be plenty of power. My 21SE is rated 200 or 225 I think. That formula yields 267.


I must say I have never heard of that though and it sounds like urban legend.

JoeR2
09-11-2009, 11:27 AM
It's illegal in several states:

Florida from the boating rules & regulations
"No person may operate a monohull boat of less than 20 feet in length while exceeding the maximum weight, persons, or horsepower capacity as displayed on the manufacturer's capacity plate"

http://myfwc.com/RULESANDREGS/Rules_B...at.htm#max (http://myfwc.com/RULESANDREGS/Rules_Boat.htm#max)

Utah - Capacity Plates:
No person shall permit a vessel to be loaded with passengers or cargo beyond the maximum allowable weight capacity of such vessel, nor beyond its safe carrying capacity, taking into consideration weather and other operating conditions. In Utah, it is illegal to exceed a boat's maximum load or horsepower rating.
http://www.boatingbasicsonline.com/course/boating/10_0.php?new_state=UT (http://www.boatingbasicsonline.com/course/boating/10_0.php?new_state=UT)

The State of Nebraska laws require all boats when loaded to retain at least ½ of the total
depth of the boat above the water when measured at the center of the boat and shall not
exceed the overloading limits set by the mandatory Coast Guard capacity plate installed on
vessels by manufacturers. To review federal regulations, refer to the section on Capacity

k9medic
09-11-2009, 02:15 PM
Sounds tippy, however..

On most boats that would be plenty of power. My 21SE is rated 200 or 225 I think. That formula yields 267.


I must say I have never heard of that though and it sounds like urban legend.

Here's the CG link

http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2003/julqtr/33cfr183.53.htm

evensen
09-11-2009, 04:10 PM
I would be very surprised if you could get a dealer to install larger engines
than the boats HP limit.
Have you bought tires lately? Tire dealers WILL NOT install tires that are less capable than specified or too many sizes larger. Costco has it all computerized, even on the web-site.
Exceeding the HP rating and getting in an injury boating accident would be a disaster.
Lawyers pray to get those kinds of cases.

tommyr904
09-11-2009, 05:16 PM
I had a 300hp Pro Max put on a 20ft Bullet and I had to sign a waiver for them to install it

pastaman1234
09-11-2009, 05:38 PM
I had a 300hp Pro Max put on a 20ft Bullet and I had to sign a waiver for them to install it


How fast????? 90-95??

CaribouLou
09-11-2009, 08:26 PM
I would be very surprised if you could get a dealer to install larger engines
than the boats HP limit.
Have you bought tires lately? Tire dealers WILL NOT install tires that are less capable than specified or too many sizes larger. Costco has it all computerized, even on the web-site.
Exceeding the HP rating and getting in an injury boating accident would be a disaster.
Lawyers pray to get those kinds of cases.

i have witnessed both of those situations

also, this rating really makes no sense for offshore speed boats. we can throw whatever motor we want in an never get asked how much hp we have. theres a 22ft donzi on the lake here that has a 670hp viper V10 and its insured. whats the difference if its outboard? the cops never ask me how much hp i have. CG never checked my capacity plate for HP.

evensen
09-12-2009, 11:29 AM
If by "offshore speed applications" you mean racing, then none of this applies.
The racing applications are not related to every day use.

Read your car insurance or boat insurance policy and you will find explicit exclusions for competitive uses.

You DO NOT want to exceed the HP rating plate that is required by law to be on your power boat.

FWIIW: I am a firm believer in ordering the strongest available engines in about any boat application. Bigger engines can run at lower % of max output and last longer.



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