Dockside Chat - any beekeepers?

i picked up my bees last night...two nuc hives (five frames each) of russians.
i'll post up some pix over the weekend

they look like they made the four hour round trip with only a few dozen casulties that they've already pushed out of the hives. i have them set up in a shady spot in the way, way back, next to a creek that holds water. i managed to get them set up with only a few stings...

i have a few questions if anyone already is in to this

We kept a few hives when i was young.

only a few stings... yikes!

Chris, what are ya NUTS ?

Just remember, Google is your friend .

When are the pet rattle snakes coming ? LOL

I've been keeping bees for about 10 years. What's your question?

Chip

My brother in law has been a beekeeper for about 40yrs. I don't think he even notices getting stung anymore. He could be working on 20 hives in a group and only wearing a veil. The smoker is your friend!!! I kept a few hives he gave me when I was a kid. I had a little centerfuge to spin the frames... and a hot knife.

Have fun and enjoy the free honey.

We had 9 hives here in the noreast but lost them all to the mites a few years back. sure miss the wildflower honey.


.

cgrands Russian bees are somewhat resistant to mites but still may need to be treated with an acaricide if they get too many mites. Theres another type of honey bee, called SMR's, that are also resistant to mites if you wanted to try them again.

Chip

welder, don't bee such a wuss...:grin:

chip, here's my questions:

-i found a few small beetles in the hives when i added the second deep to each one. called the breeder he said it was normal, don't worry about it. do you have an opinion on that?

-i bought five-frame nucs, put them in a deep with five empty frames, then added another deep with ten frames. should i expect to be able to add a shallow honey super this year? when typically is it too late to add one to get honey that season?

-how would i know if/when they are getting robbed by wild bees?

here's "honeybee hill" at the compound:

Howdy back,

Be concerned. Those are small hive beetles, one of the latest pests of honey bees. They aren't a huge problem in a full-sized and well-populated hive but they can overtake and kill smaller or weak hives. Since you only have 2 hives, I would suggest that you buy a trap (AJ Beetle Eater) to control them. Brushy Mountain (www.brushymountainbeefarm.com (http://www.brushymountainbeefarm.com)) has them for 5$ each and you put them between the top bars and fill them with vegetable oil. Beetles like dark places and the honey bees will bite them, so they crawl into the trap, fall in and drown in the oil. I have about 700 hives, so that method isn't practical for me. There also is a chemical treatment (Check Mite Plus by Bayer) that comes on a plastic strip you staple to the underside of a 4 x 4 inch square of black corrugated plastic. These go on the very bottom of the hive where beetles crawl beneath them, get exposed to the chemical and die. It's a pretty harsh pesticide to avoid if you can. Both products are available at Brushy Mountain and many other bee supply places. You also can get a product called Gard Star which is used to drench the soil outside the hive to help control the larvae. The best, cheapest, and safest option without a doubt is the trap and vegetable oil. Just empty it out from time to time and you will control your beetles.

Small hive beetles are also a concern when you harvest your honey unless you process it right away. Commercially, honey supers are harvested and stored for a few days before extraction. In an unbelievably short period of time, adult hive beetles will go to the honey comb (not protected by bees since it was harvested and is stored in a hot room, etc.) lay eggs and huge infestations of their maggoty larvae devour the honey and deposit excrement in what they don't eat. Distasteful and unfit for human consumption.

I assume you have just installed the 5-framers, so I'd take that top deep off right away. Thats more space for hive beetles to hide and more areas your bees have to patrol to control the beetles. A good rule of thumb is when that bottom box is chock full of bees, 5-8 frames of brood, honey and pollen, then add the second box. That way, the bees will start working the top box right away and will pose a threat to the beetles.

I also assume you put foundation in the boxes rather than drawn comb. If that's true, you'll need to help the bees draw out the wax. Feed them as much sugar water as they'll take (a 1:1 ratio based on weight will work). That will simulate a major nectar flow and the bees will respond by drawing out comb. Look for the bees to string together like grapes right after you feed and they start the drawing process. Some bees are exuding wax scales while others take it and mold it into comb on your foundation. If you are drawing comb from foundation, use 10 frames per box all together. Once the comb is drawn, reduce the number to 9 and just space them equally. It makes it a lot easier to pry out frames without squeezing the frames together and perhaps killing the queen. However, if you use 9 when they draw the comb, they will produce irregular combs that will cause you problems down the road. The other thing about feeding is that the comb will get drawn out quickly and will be perfect. Natural nectar flows wax and wane---when there is little nectar coming in, the bees will slow wax building anf you'll get imperfect combs. Another thing you should consider is adding a product called fumagilin-B to the syrup. There is a microsporidian going through bees right now that kills bees and that is the best treatment. It's a fungal product and is safe for your bees and honey. Just follow directions and feed it with the syrup inside the hive-use an in-hive feeder.

Your last question had to do with honey this year. I'm guessing that bees in your neck of the woods are probably working tallow right now or will pretty soon. That is dark honey and I'm not too wild about it but it is great for bees and lots of people do like it. I'm sure there are lots of other flowers down there that are good for honey production but my time in LA is fishing out of Venice, so I've no experience there. An earlier flower from your area, but one that has already bloomed for the year, is Ratan which is a vine. Produces a gourmet honey that's almost white. Feeding your bees sugar syrup until they draw out all your comb and then stop and let the bees fill the honey super using local nectar; that will maxmize your chance of getting honey this year. You don't need to feed the bees to have them draw out comb in the honey super. They won't put honey up there till there's enough of a nectar flow to draw out comb anyway. That said, if you could get some drawn comb, you'll make more honey. A rule of thumb is that bees require an equivalent weight of honey to produce the same weight in wax so comb is preferred if you have it.

Good Luck,
Chip

Sorry, I missed one of your questions. When bees rob you will see fighting amongst lots of bees at the entrance to the hive. You'll also know it because the bees are irritable and often sting.

Howdy back,

Be concerned. Those are small hive beetles, one of the latest pests of honey bees. They aren't a huge problem in a full-sized and well-populated hive but they can overtake and kill smaller or weak hives. Since you only have 2 hives, I would suggest that you buy a trap (AJ Beetle Eater) to control them. Brushy Mountain (www.brushymountainbeefarm.com (http://www.brushymountainbeefarm.com)) has them for 5$ each and you put them between the top bars and fill them with vegetable oil. Beetles like dark places and the honey bees will bite them, so they crawl into the trap, fall in and drown in the oil. I have about 700 hives, so that method isn't practical for me. There also is a chemical treatment (Check Mite Plus by Bayer) that comes on a plastic strip you staple to the underside of a 4 x 4 inch square of black corrugated plastic. These go on the very bottom of the hive where beetles crawl beneath them, get exposed to the chemical and die. It's a pretty harsh pesticide to avoid if you can. Both products are available at Brushy Mountain and many other bee supply places. You also can get a product called Gard Star which is used to drench the soil outside the hive to help control the larvae. The best, cheapest, and safest option without a doubt is the trap and vegetable oil. Just empty it out from time to time and you will control your beetles.

Small hive beetles are also a concern when you harvest your honey unless you process it right away. Commercially, honey supers are harvested and stored for a few days before extraction. In an unbelievably short period of time, adult hive beetles will go to the honey comb (not protected by bees since it was harvested and is stored in a hot room, etc.) lay eggs and huge infestations of their maggoty larvae devour the honey and deposit excrement in what they don't eat. Distasteful and unfit for human consumption.

I assume you have just installed the 5-framers, so I'd take that top deep off right away. Thats more space for hive beetles to hide and more areas your bees have to patrol to control the beetles. A good rule of thumb is when that bottom box is chock full of bees, 5-8 frames of brood, honey and pollen, then add the second box. That way, the bees will start working the top box right away and will pose a threat to the beetles.

I also assume you put foundation in the boxes rather than drawn comb. If that's true, you'll need to help the bees draw out the wax. Feed them as much sugar water as they'll take (a 1:1 ratio based on weight will work). That will simulate a major nectar flow and the bees will respond by drawing out comb. Look for the bees to string together like grapes right after you feed and they start the drawing process. Some bees are exuding wax scales while others take it and mold it into comb on your foundation. If you are drawing comb from foundation, use 10 frames per box all together. Once the comb is drawn, reduce the number to 9 and just space them equally. It makes it a lot easier to pry out frames without squeezing the frames together and perhaps killing the queen. However, if you use 9 when they draw the comb, they will produce irregular combs that will cause you problems down the road. The other thing about feeding is that the comb will get drawn out quickly and will be perfect. Natural nectar flows wax and wane---when there is little nectar coming in, the bees will slow wax building anf you'll get imperfect combs. Another thing you should consider is adding a product called fumagilin-B to the syrup. There is a microsporidian going through bees right now that kills bees and that is the best treatment. It's a fungal product and is safe for your bees and honey. Just follow directions and feed it with the syrup inside the hive-use an in-hive feeder.

Your last question had to do with honey this year. I'm guessing that bees in your neck of the woods are probably working tallow right now or will pretty soon. That is dark honey and I'm not too wild about it but it is great for bees and lots of people do like it. I'm sure there are lots of other flowers down there that are good for honey production but my time in LA is fishing out of Venice, so I've no experience there. An earlier flower from your area, but one that has already bloomed for the year, is Ratan which is a vine. Produces a gourmet honey that's almost white. Feeding your bees sugar syrup until they draw out all your comb and then stop and let the bees fill the honey super using local nectar; that will maxmize your chance of getting honey this year. You don't need to feed the bees to have them draw out comb in the honey super. They won't put honey up there till there's enough of a nectar flow to draw out comb anyway. That said, if you could get some drawn comb, you'll make more honey. A rule of thumb is that bees require an equivalent weight of honey to produce the same weight in wax so comb is preferred if you have it.

Good Luck,
Chip

chip

excellent info, thank you so much

yes i do just have foundation on the empty frames...i do have two hive top feeders that came with the hives, that i was going to add on this afternoon. if i remember correctly i need to remove the inner cover before the feeder, correct?

that's what i was afraid of with the beetles...i'll get the traps ASAP. everything i read about the bayer product scared me off it, so i am glad to hear there's another option

again, i really appreciate the info!

I've never used an inner cover. They're mostly used by hobbyists who can take more time to enjoy their bees than commerical beekeepers can. I'm just phasing into commercial beekeeping but that's been my intention since I started with the bees--it just happened quicker than I'd planned. I kept reinvesting my profits and now have more bees than I should at this point in time. I plan to retire in 3-4 years and that's what I wanted to do to stay active.

There are basically 2 types of in-hive feeders but I don't know which type you have. One replaces a frame and the other is basicaly a shallow open super that you fill with syrup and the bees access through an opening in the middle. You don't have an option with the frame-style feeder but I think you could put the other type under the inner cover too. Should give the bees a little better access. There is also an entrance feeder that fits on a jar filled with syrup that is outside the hive. Fumagliin is degraded by sunlight so I'd steer away from that style. The microspiridian I spoke about it controls is likely a major contributor to CCD. Since the 06 bee collapse, researchers found that parasite and people started treating and CCD losses have become fewer and fewer. It's also something that causes bees to loose their ability to utilize foods so they can literally starve when there's abundant nectar--certainly should treat when you feed syrup.

Chip

I keep bees too Chris. Mine are Italian honeybees.

The beetles are a pain...have lost several hives to them in the past.

Russian bees???

Commie :)

Chip Euliss, your profile shows North Dakota. how do you keep the bees alive during the winter?

Chris, USDA/LSU has a research group in Baton Rouge off of Nicholson Dr that is researching different things with honeybees. You might give them a call and see if there are local issues that you might have to deal with.

I rent them each winter to a beekeeper in California who uses them to pollinate almonds in February and then for orange honey production in April. They leave here in November and I get them back the first week in May--there's about 700 hives out in my pasture right now waiting for me to haul them out to their summer locations. Some people do winter bees here and I have in the past but if I can make some money on them, off they go. To winter them here, all you have to do is wrap them in insulation, make sure they have a small hole up top (to let carbon dioxide and water vapor out) and enough honey to last until spring. Bees are very hardy.

I'm a researcher in my day job and work mostly on wetlands but I have a collaborative honeybee project with Jeff Pettis who leads ARS's honey bee research program nationally. Our project mostly deals with how changes in land use affect bee diets and nutrition.

Chip

chip i also got a recommendation to use this

http://www.bee-commerce.com/detail.aspx?ID=80

in the feeder with the syrup. have you used it or heard of it before?

by the way, these russians are crazy prolific. i went to go check the upper deep yesterday, they have already pretty much filled the ten frames in the lower, and are three frames in on the upper

Cgrand, I don't know anything about bees, but it's an interesting thread. Post some more pics of your hives and what you're up to if you have time.

My father "kept a bee" for several years a score of years ago. He had great fun with it and even got a jar or two of honey out of it. That was real expensive honey but provided him lots of recreation and tinkering time. He lost interest after a while.

The fellow who cuts hay on the farm found a hive in an old barrel and is going to try to get them out. How successful have you beekeepers been at capturing "wild" hives?

Just got in from the beeyard. I'm yard-breaking hives in prep for new queens that should get here Friday. Started at 1:00 PM today and didn't get as far along as I'd hoped. It was a cold windy day, not exactly good weather for working bees. I'll start earlier tomorrow since the weather is forecast to improve.

I haven't used the additive that was recommended to you but I have several friends who use it down south and they say it's a good stimulant, especially early in the season when it's cool. We're on the verge of a major nectar flow here, mostly from various fruit trees, and the bees will be hard for this old man to keep up with so I don't want to stimulate mine right now. A little later, about mid-June, we'll get a dearth right before the main nectar flow so I feed them syrup then to keep them rearing brood until the flow kicks in--then I just add supers till it's over. Normally, I'll feed then add a bunch of supers and head to Venice to fish a couple of weeks--lots of honey when I get home and time to start early harvesting

I've never kept Russian bees because their buildup pattern isn't a good fit for the season here or my management style but I understand they're are great bees. They are gentle, mite resistant and good honey producers. I understand they winter in small clusters and then literally explode early in the season like Carniolian bees. That's probably what you're seeing now and that's a good sign you've got a strong nectar flow going on--take one of the frames from the upper super that has fresh wax and looks wet and shake it on the top of the hive. Fresh nectar will fly out and get the top of your hive wet with nectar--no waste, the bees will clean it up and you'll know for sure the nectar flow is on! The only negative thing I've heard about Russians is a tendancy to swarm because they build up so fast in the spring. Just give them plenty of space and that shouldn't be a problem for you since it's easy to stay on them when you're just managing a couple of colonies. I keep an Italian bee called Minnesota Hygenics that also resist mites (and some diseases) but they maintain huge colonies but that fits my operation since I rent them out each winter to pollinate almonds in California--you need lots of bees to get top dollar for rent.

Sounds like you're having a good time! Bees are lots of fun. Believe it or not, I started with one colony about 11 years ago. My wife had a swarm move into a bluebird box and I hived them into an old hive her grandfather gave us. Today, I have 700 hives!

Good Luck,
Chip

Cut the brood comb out and wire it inside a standard frame. Transfer all the comb into a hive body, put on a lid and a bottom and you'll have a hive. Make sure you get the queen, put the brood comb in the middle of the box and the honey comb on the outside. Put pollen combs between the honey comb and brood. Probably good to replace the queen since her genetics (or possibly poor management) made them swarm in the first place.

Chip

Im a bee keeper i eat my honey every day

thanks again chip

moorhen it's a bunch easier to capture a swarm than to relocate an existing brood comb. make sure this guy knows what he's doing so he doesn't hurt himself or, more imprtantly, kill the bees