Dockside Chat - It's Official -- Chrysler is going down -- Fiat to jump on at bottom

DETROIT (Reuters) - The Treasury is preparing a Chapter 11 bankruptcy filing for Chrysler LLC that could come as soon as next week, The New York Times reported on Thursday, citing people with direct knowledge of the matter.

The Treasury has an agreement in principle with the United Auto Workers union to protect pensions and retiree health care benefits as a condition of the bankruptcy filing, the paper said.

Italy's Fiat would finalize its alliance with Chrysler while the U.S. automaker is under bankruptcy protection, the paper reported.


http://www.reuters.com/article/businessNews/idUSWEN774620090423

Oh crap, I'm fired.

Oh Good - F-I-A-T - Fix It Again, Tony.....

Several mechanic shops in this area have signs stating they don't work on Fiats.

Several mechanic shops in this area have signs stating they don't work on Fiats.

They'll take 'em down when they get hungry. :grin:

I've always figure a Fiat was the bottom of the barrel or darn close to it, but they must be doing something right if they can afford to by Chrysler.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090423/ts_nm/us_chrysler_whitehouse


Obama admin says still seeks Chrysler-Fiat deal



WASHINGTON (Reuters) – The Obama administration remains focused on bringing Chrysler and Fiat into a working partnership, a U.S. official said on Thursday, dismissing a news report that the U.S. car-maker faced imminent bankruptcy.
"In a negotiation like this, everything is speculation until there's a deal. It should surprise no one that the administration is planning on contingencies, but we remain focused on the goal and engaged with all stakeholders to bring Chrysler and Fiat to a working partnership," the administration official said.
(Reporting by Ross Colvin)


And, unlike anyone else posting here, I am in the Tech Center no less than three days a week and everyone is working diligently on the merger. My company is working on IP cross-licensing with all of the parties involved (FIAT, Chrysler and mutual suppliers). Most everyone that I have contact with, including senior executive management, is guardedly optimistic that the merger will be consummated before the deadline.



It is not my intention to be drawn into a pointless and irresolvable debate about the industry and Chrysler in particular, but I am extremely tired of reading half-truths and speculation regarding topics of which I have first-hand knowledge.


Mike

mercedes left chrysler with all those worthless mercedes tranys can you imagine what crap fiat will have them running. actually mbenz was smart they stayed long enuff to fill the cars with junk that only they can provide parts for.... at ridiculous prices.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090423/ts_nm/us_chrysler_whitehouse




And, unlike anyone else posting here, I am in the Tech Center no less than three days a week and everyone is working diligently on the merger. My company is working on IP cross-licensing with all of the parties involved (FIAT, Chrysler and mutual suppliers). Most everyone that I have contact with, including senior executive management, is guardedly optimistic that the merger will be consummated before the deadline.



It is not my intention to be drawn into a pointless and irresolvable debate about the industry and Chrysler in particular, but I am extremely tired of reading half-truths and speculation regarding topics of which I have first-hand knowledge.


Mike


Mike, it's the THT way, speculation an inuendo. You and I both know that actually going into BK is probably unlikely, but thats not DRAMATIC sky is falling stuff.

Just lke the "Junk" Benz transmissions. We write about 100 repair orders a day, little or no issues with the Benz trannys.

And while your at the tech center, can you get them to bring Dealer Connect software, bandwidth, and ergonomics into this century?

I've always figure a Fiat was the bottom of the barrel or darn close to it.


Yep bottom of the barrel for sure.. They own that one crappy Italian sports car manufacturer, what's their name again? It escapes me at the moment....

So, if Fiat buys into Chrysler, is it a conflict of interest if Fiat also owns a chunk of GM -- of does the Opel brand slide off of GM and entirely, and into Fiat's garage?

What is that "crappy" little Italian car doing right that the entire American auto industry can't get right for the life of themselves?

Yep bottom of the barrel for sure.. They own that one crappy Italian sports car manufacturer, what's their name again? It escapes me at the moment....


you must be talking about Ferrari junk...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Ferrari

"As of 2004, Fiat Group owns 56% of Ferrari, Mediobanca (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mediobanca) owns 15%, Commerzbank (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commerzbank) owns 10%, Lehman Brothers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lehman_Brothers) owns 7%, and Enzo's adopted son Piero Ferrari (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piero_Ferrari) owns 10%. Of these, Ferrari is under main control of the Fiat Group, containing Alfa Romeo as well.
As of 2004, Fiat Group owns 56% of Ferrari, Mediobanca (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mediobanca) owns 15%, Commerzbank (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commerzbank) owns 10%, Lehman Brothers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lehman_Brothers) owns 7%, and Enzo's adopted son Piero Ferrari (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piero_Ferrari) owns 10%. Of these, Ferrari is under main control of the Fiat Group, containing Alfa Romeo as well."

Times are tough out there and Fiat was ahead of the curve when they re-release the 500 and the 600...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_Nuova_500

http://www.motiontrends.com/2005/m07eng/fiat/600.shtml

at least the old models (500 and 600) were cool.

The companys that had small vehicles
are in better condition, Ford is in better condition just cause of that,
they had the smaller vehicles when the "oil crisis" hit.

look at the Ford Mondeo, Ford Fusion
Ford Fiesta, etc

mercedes left chrysler with all those worthless mercedes tranys can you imagine what crap fiat will have them running. actually mbenz was smart they stayed long enuff to fill the cars with junk that only they can provide parts for.... at ridiculous prices.


Chrysler made a pack with Mercedes, so Chrysler could get acess
to "German Enginering", however the Germans
are not stupid...
they start putting their focus on
VW, Porsche and BMW.

A mercedes Benz was never the same quality vehicle after the Chrysler merger.
Something happen to OPEL, once a
reputable European brand, GM bought them out
and was never the same...

Henry Ford was the pionner of such nonsense, once he realized
that theres was much more money to be made on auto parts than selling
reliable automobiles, the auto industry was never the same...

Hey Citroen is winning rally's in Europe,
that will tell you where the quality of brand vehicles went
in the last years.

And then theres Jaguar, what I call Xaguar,
check craiglists and the price of the used ones and it will click,
Xaguars=FORDS expensive junk to repair...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090423/ts_nm/us_chrysler_whitehouse




And, unlike anyone else posting here, I am in the Tech Center no less than three days a week and everyone is working diligently on the merger. My company is working on IP cross-licensing with all of the parties involved (FIAT, Chrysler and mutual suppliers). Most everyone that I have contact with, including senior executive management, is guardedly optimistic that the merger will be consummated before the deadline.



It is not my intention to be drawn into a pointless and irresolvable debate about the industry and Chrysler in particular, but I am extremely tired of reading half-truths and speculation regarding topics of which I have first-hand knowledge.


Mike


So much for that NDA huh?

What is that "crappy" little Italian car doing right that the entire American auto industry can't get right for the life of themselves?

One thing.........they learnt to get their head's out of their asses. Americans still haven't figured how to do that. :roll :bashhh:

NDA's are a joke and everyone knows it

So let me see if I understand things so far. The company was a cluster fuck due to the unholy alliance of piss-poor management and corrupt union scumbags that drove a once-proud auto manufacturer to a beggar with tin cup put forth. The worst of it is that we, the taxpayers, and I don't include all the assholes who don't pay into the system yet reap the benefits therefrom, were told by the idiots in dc that we needed to bail them out-they were too big to fail. I disagreed then and I was right. This company was a mess and didn't deserve help. On the contrary, earned its failure. Instead, we gave them all that money and they failed anyway. So what do we learn from this? Seriously-what do we learn???

CMP

So much for that NDA huh?

I didn't disclose anything that isn't available in the media, except to comment on the spirits of the people involved. Knowing these people the way that I do, I know that they would be pleased that I helped inject a little reason into this slackpool of idle speculation.

Please feel free to contact the Chrysler LLC Legal Office if you have any tangible evidence that I have violated the spirit or letter of any agreement that I or my company has with Chrysler. Be sure to explain to them how you have any knowledge whatsoever of what is in our NDAs.

Mike

so much for that nda huh?


lol!:):):):)

I thought the real financial burden on these companies was the pensions, health care costs, and over promising union retirees.

So how is this a good thing if all that stuff is protected? The problem is still there. Does this mean the government or you and I the tax payer will now pay this?

I hate to say it but it may be what the Detroit industry needs except fo rthe fact of all the more unemployment I used to think a Big 2 would be better for the industry because of capacity but now with GM it looks as though there may be only one left and that is a maybe only time will tell.

With the quality Chrysler has I am suprised they are still in the game. I have lived and worked in this industry for 40+ years and it amazes me that people in this day and age would put up with trucks and cars that rust and have so many problems as early as they do. Just take a look at any May edition of Consumer Reports for the past 25 years.

And those interiors they are horrible to look at. They have been a bit creative in some of their exterior themes however cartoonist in others. A bit doughy.

I will be amazed if they survive this downturn even if Fiat and the US lifeline is extended. To much capacity and real tough competition and a worldwide economic armageddon should be the curtain for any business. The government and in constituents will pull the cord sooner than later.

"I thought the real financial burden on these companies was the pensions, health care costs, and over promising union retirees."

Obama is a union guy and if he expects another 4 years for his wife showing off her buffed arms he knows jobless ex-autoworkers on public assistance or making a quarter of the wages they made when they elected him 4 years earlier ensures a different party will win the office no matter what if he does not protect them.

Besides most of the pensions and health care will go the way of the guaranteed pension act as the airline and steel workers did and all ofAmerica and its next couple of generations will pay.

And, unlike anyone else posting here, I am in the Tech Center no less than three days a week and everyone is working diligently on the merger.



Then you are aware the EU's industry commissioner has express his skepticism that Fiat can afford this buy-in with Chrysler, right?

Maybe why it was reported Chrysler was going to the bottom, bankrupt, BEFORE Fiat would step in?!? ;?

With the quality Chrysler has I am suprised they are still in the game. I have lived and worked in this industry for 40+ years and it amazes me that people in this day and age would put up with trucks and cars that rust and have so many problems as early as they do. Just take a look at any May edition of Consumer Reports for the past 25 years.

And those interiors they are horrible to look at. They have been a bit creative in some of their exterior themes however cartoonist in others.

But it's all the UNIONS' FAULT!!!

I would hardly consider anything eyeball says to be fact. News this am was still saying maybe might, that don,t sound like fact to me.

I'm striving for eb's ignore list.

I would hardly consider anything eyeball says to be fact. News this am was still saying maybe might, that don,t sound like fact to me.

I'm striving for eb's ignore list.

No, it is true, the commissioner did say it. He was however immediately rebuked as "interferring" with a potential deal and has drawn sharp criticism for his comments.

http://www.reuters.com/article/mergersNews/idUSLO73336820090424

I would hardly consider anything eyeball says to be fact. News this am was still saying maybe might, that don,t sound like fact to me.


:roll

When I toss out these news stories, I also post a link to the story I quoted.

If you have a problem with this news story, take it up with Reuters news agency, the source of my information. Good luck, let us know how that goes. :roll

No, it is true, the commissioner did say it. He was however immediately rebuked as "interferring" with a potential deal and has drawn sharp criticism for his comments.


But it did nothing to bring the needed cash to the table. Fiat is something like 4.8-billion Euros in the red, payments due this year. They are looking to buy companies with no cash. It's all a smoke and mirror game -- Fiat has no money to invest in Chrysler. GM will give away a 51% stake in Opel to anyone that seems willing and able to make the company work. GM only wants Opel's "green" potential to import back into the US -- a requirement of more fed bail out money. Fiat is looking to the German govt to bailout Opel after they acquire a 51% stake in the company. It's all smoke and mirrors.

The commissioner does not appear to have been out of line with this comment, after all.

t3rockhall wrote:

"But it's all the UNIONS' FAULT!!!"

And there is a common denominator in the last 2 decades for 3 companies in Detroit - all of which are all in mortgaged to the hilt or nearly bankrupt - and that would be the

UNION

I am not saying it is all the unions fault but fact of the matter is no successful automotive company has an agreement with the UAW. And no matter how spin that in any universe that is and has been a fact in good or bad times.

Ford still makes good money from parts,
the problem with GM and Chrysler is they outsource
the parts portion of the company, they giving away profit to other corporations,
something Henry Ford will never stand up for...

Adelphia and other Corporations were making more profit on GM parts, than the brand that
build the vehicle.

... fact of the matter is no successful automotive company has an agreement with the UAW.



:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:


Maybe not the sole reason, but certainly a significant contributing factor to their lack of success.

Just brought my wife's Grand Cherokee to the dealer for oil change & front end alignment. We've never had trouble with it,it's been very reliable. But I just got a call from them for $2600.00 in repairs !!!!! I think we just bailed out Chrysler!!!!!

Just brought my wife's Grand Cherokee to the dealer for oil change & front end alignment. We've never had trouble with it,it's been very reliable. But I just got a call from them for $2600.00 in repairs !!!!! I think we just bailed out Chrysler!!!!!

:o Jay, Please itemize when you have a chance. My 2001 GC is still on it's original rubber @ 72K and I plan an alignment w/ the new tires. Was it suspension related?

"I think we just bailed out Chrysler!!!!!"

Or your dealer is getting a head start.

:o Jay, Please itemize when you have a chance. My 2001 GC is still on it's original rubber @ 72K and I plan an alignment w/ the new tires. Was it suspension related?

Ball joints need to be replaced,tie rods shot and some kind of locking ring for the airbag needs to be replaced. Oil sensor bad,leak in radiator. They gave my wife a PT Cruiser for a loaner car.Nice little car with plenty of pick-up and surprisingly roomy. But it's got the dealers name plasted all over it! What kills me besides the cost is other than a slight pull to the right and the oil gauge read 0(dip stick showed the oil level was fine) there was no other symptoms ! But the front end has realy taken alot of abuse. Our streets are filled with potholes,I bet Bagdad has smoother streets!

Then you are aware the EU's industry commissioner has express his skepticism that Fiat can afford this buy-in with Chrysler, right?

Maybe why it was reported Chrysler was going to the bottom, bankrupt, BEFORE Fiat would step in?!? ;?

Sigh...

My entire point here is that all is not gloom and doom in the halls of CTC. I refuse to drawn into a debate on the entire domestic auto industry topic, except to note that the majority of people that have posted on this since last fall do not have enough information to support some of the stated positions.

A more important point is...I don't understand why some of you take such great delight at the thought of the failure of some the domestic auto manufacturers, and other people's misery in general. Schadenfreude is, at best, unattractive and has always struck me as rather pathetic.

Mike

Sigh...

My entire point here is that all is not gloom and doom in the halls of CTC. I refuse to drawn into a debate on the entire domestic auto industry topic, except to note that the majority of people that have posted on this since last fall do not have enough information to support some of the stated positions.

A more important point is...I don't understand why some of you take such great delight at the thought of the failure of some the domestic auto manufacturers, and other people's misery in general. Schadenfreude is, at best, unattractive and has always struck me as rather pathetic.

MikeWhat's really sad is the big three had the technology to build cars that were as reliable as the foreign imports which eventually ate their respective lunches. They finally started building better cars, but by then it was too late.

BTW, all my vehicles are domestic, but facts are facts.

But it's all the UNIONS' FAULT!!!

If the compnay starts with 40% cost handicap on labor, the only way to produce a car at a price point that is close to competitive is to cut out design, R&D, quality control, and materials costs. And the latter is supplied by union shops that have the same problems to start the process.

So yes - the root problem is unions, and the root of the root problem is management that has been cowtowing to the unions for decades in order to buy themselves another year of "pay for incompetence".

Sigh...

My entire point here is that all is not gloom and doom in the halls of CTC. I refuse to drawn into a debate on the entire domestic auto industry topic, except to note that the majority of people that have posted on this since last fall do not have enough information to support some of the stated positions.

A more important point is...I don't understand why some of you take such great delight at the thought of the failure of some the domestic auto manufacturers, and other people's misery in general. Schadenfreude is, at best, unattractive and has always struck me as rather pathetic.

Mike

You are misreading the sentiment. It is not delight in other's misfortunes. it is indignation that 1) they have been earning compensation far in excess of the value that they provide, 2) those that are not in that position, many of whom are suffering econmically, are being forced to subsidize a continuance of that excess when it is just not sustainable, and 3) the reason that is the case is for the sole purpose of payoff to another leeching dependent class.

If the compnay starts with 40% cost handicap on labor, the only way to produce a car at a price point that is close to competitive is to cut out design, R&D, quality control, and materials costs. And the latter is supplied by union shops that have the same problems to start the process.

So yes - the root problem is unions, and the root of the root problem is management that has been cowtowing to the unions for decades in order to buy themselves another year of "pay for incompetence".Exactly!

My entire point here is that all is not gloom and doom in the halls of CTC.


Of course it is not "gloom and doom" -- it is all just entertainment while on the way to the bottom. :grin:

peptide wrote:

"A more important point is...I don't understand why some of you take such great delight at the thought of the failure of some the domestic auto manufacturers"

peptide you claim to be some cog in a wheel within this industry. I was born raised in a Detroit suburb entering my 6th decade of life worked right in the midst of all this whining for nearly 30 years and it makes me sick.

Puzzles me that you would question why these people would root against this "part" of the entire industry.

These individuals you question were lost way back when they switched to brands that served them better, when they told from the previous manufactures when their cars engine was knocking at 37k miles just out of warranty that they were on their own or when their transmission failed prematurely or... the list goes on.

I have seen various studies suggesting that it would take 6-10 times the money spent to get them back that it would have taken to keep them.

Then enter the jobs banks guaranteed wages and benefits 85% of if they opt to stay home and not go to the bank and 90% if they report for a few hours. These are some of the same employees that put a car or truck together for them 20 years ago. All of this sort of stuff is sickening to people who have to fend for themselves at retirement. No guaranteed pensions medical plans that are rivaled only by politicians and you ask -

WHY?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090427/ap_on_bi_ge/us_gm_plan

"Both GM and Chrysler also must win concessions from the United Auto Workers union. The UAW said late Sunday that it had reached agreement on concessions with Chrysler, Fiat and the U.S. government. Fiat CEO Sergio Marchionne was in the U.S. as talks continued for the automaker to take a 20 percent stake in Chrysler in exchange for its small-car technology."

Gee Whiz, I thought Chrysler was done? Eyeballer said so.

:)

Sh!t.. how about lifetime warranty- I got one of them. Liberty.

Chrysler made a pack with Mercedes, so Chrysler could get acess
to "German Enginering", however the Germans
are not stupid...
they start putting their focus on
VW, Porsche and BMW.

A mercedes Benz was never the same quality vehicle after the Chrysler merger.
Something happen to OPEL, once a
reputable European brand, GM bought them out
and was never the same...

Henry Ford was the pionner of such nonsense, once he realized
that theres was much more money to be made on auto parts than selling
reliable automobiles, the auto industry was never the same...

Hey Citroen is winning rally's in Europe,
that will tell you where the quality of brand vehicles went
in the last years.

And then theres Jaguar, what I call Xaguar,
check craiglists and the price of the used ones and it will click,
Xaguars=FORDS expensive junk to repair...
Hey I love Jag so as "f"- broke $5 today:thumbsup:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090427/ap_on_bi_ge/us_auto_bailout

I have hard time believing GM will go belly up, however everthing is possible.

Hey I love Jag so as "f"- broke $5 today:thumbsup:



:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

You never can get past bad management until the end.

Can you?

You never can get past bad management until the end.

Can you?



Wait until you hear the latest -- what the UAW agreed to regarding Chrysler.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Wait until you hear the latest -- what the UAW agreed to regarding Chrysler.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=al89RU9gWof8&refer=home


only 55%. . . . . . . . . . . . I am fired.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
I got F @ 2bucks (today is up again!!!!!:grin::thumbsup: go FORD!!!!)

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=al89RU9gWof8&refer=home


only 55%. . . . . . . . . . . . I am fired.


Yeah, so what is going to happen when the union workers want a raise? They go to themselves, now majority owner and as such, "management" -- they go to themselves for a raise? If the company gets into financial trouble, are they going to fire themselves?

It's a fuggin' mess.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

The UAW has "owned" the auto makers for decades. It will be interesting for them to actually have straight forward ownership in the companies. Maybe it will change the thought process of the unions. Instead of trying to rape management for higher wages, they'll look to be more profitable and spread the profits (like any traded, for profit, enterprise) among themselves.

The flip side of that is that no business should ever be a democracy. I don't know how they can avoid that with the employees owning that much of the company.

I hate to say it but it may be what the Detroit industry needs except fo rthe fact of all the more unemployment I used to think a Big 2 would be better for the industry because of capacity but now with GM it looks as though there may be only one left and that is a maybe only time will tell.

With the quality Chrysler has I am suprised they are still in the game. I have lived and worked in this industry for 40+ years and it amazes me that people in this day and age would put up with trucks and cars that rust and have so many problems as early as they do. Just take a look at any May edition of Consumer Reports for the past 25 years.

And those interiors they are horrible to look at. They have been a bit creative in some of their exterior themes however cartoonist in others. A bit doughy.

I will be amazed if they survive this downturn even if Fiat and the US lifeline is extended. To much capacity and real tough competition and a worldwide economic armageddon should be the curtain for any business. The government and in constituents will pull the cord sooner than later.

With the quality of chyrlser???? i know 4 different power stroke owners who's trucks were lemoned after spending MONTHS in the shop with an unimaginable amount of problems. While the owners had to drive around in crappy rentals! i have owned 4 dodges, my first was a 99 and it had absolutley no problems until 250K miles when the AC and trans let go. i have been very happy with the chrysler product and the cummins engine that comes in it!

Yeah, so what is going to happen when the union workers want a raise? They go to themselves, now majority owner and as such, "management" -- they go to themselves for a raise? If the company gets into financial trouble, are they going to fire themselves?

It's a fuggin' mess.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
They can not go on strike...
(that was in the past....)
BUT: maybe they can, or they will , or they will get it again, or they will get paid for doing this plus more!!!!!!!!!!... WELCOME TO USSA!!!!!!!!!!

With the quality of chyrlser???? i know 4 different power stroke owners who's trucks were lemoned after spending MONTHS in the shop with an unimaginable amount of problems. While the owners had to drive around in crappy rentals! i have owned 4 dodges, my first was a 99 and it had absolutley no problems until 250K miles when the AC and trans let go. i have been very happy with the chrysler product and the cummins engine that comes in it!
Hey, love your rig, but can you shrink it please- hard to read. Thanx!

"i have been very happy with the chrysler product and the cummins engine that comes in it!"

Cummins not made by Dodge. They have been the floor mat of quality for decades and that is no suprise to anyone living on mars.

Like I said just pick up any May issue of Consumers Report from the last 2 - 3 decades.

pfifla1

Good thing you live in Florida owning 4 of them - that is quite a few if I was doing the counting - here in the midwest the Dodge Rams are still very prone to rusting rockers and door hem flanges prematurely.

pfifla1

Good thing you live in Florida owning 4 of them - that is quite a few if I was doing the counting - here in the midwest the Dodge Rams are still very prone to rusting rockers and door hem flanges prematurely.
I can not support chrysler cars but to deny that Dodge trucks are good quality is to deny the truth! J.D. power and assoc. has repeatedly rated "Dodge Trucks" as "The most dependable, Longest lasting trucks". The last year Dodge recieved that honor was last year.

"J.D. power and assoc. has repeatedly rated "Dodge Trucks" as "The most dependable, Longest lasting trucks".

Is that right.

It should be called Paid$. D. Powers. That award is a joke.

Those trucks are the lowest rated. Period

Cummins makes a good engine no doubt and you could consider it a supplied part without much of an argument. Beyond that the bodies rust prematurely, sensors managing the gas engines are a known problem especially out of warranty. Interiors fall apart quick, body hardware very poorly designed and executed. The list goes on.

No point in arguing. I would rather someone buy one of the Dodges before the Tundra. But for my money there are other American choices as far as light duty trucks go.