The Boating Forum - Sea Pro, Sea Boss, Palmetto and Laguna - Dead brands

From Brunswick today..


------
Release: IMMEDIATE
Contact: Daniel Kubera
Director – Media Relations and Corporate Communications
Phone: 847-735-4617
Email: [email protected]
BRUNSWICK BLUEWATER BRANDS
TO CEASE PRODUCTION AT NEWBERRY, S.C., FACILITY
LAKE FOREST, Ill., May 13, 2008 – Brunswick Corporation (NYSE: BC) announced today that it will cease production of its Bluewater Marine brands -- including Sea Pro, Sea Boss, Palmetto and Laguna -- with the upcoming 2009 model year, which commences July 1. As a result of this action, Brunswick will close its production facility in Newberry, S.C., by the end of June.
“The U.S. marine industry has been in a prolonged slowdown since late 2005, driven by an uncertain economy, high fuel prices, the housing slump and other economic factors that have affected consumers’ confidence and eroded their discretionary spending,” explained Dustan E. McCoy, Brunswick chairman and chief executive officer. “As a result, we are assessing the recovery potential for all marine segments in which we participate, their fragmented nature, the costs of our continued presence in certain of them, and the position of our brands. Our work is ongoing and is focused on developing profitable brand positioning in all segments. With this action, we believe we will solidify our presence in the highly fragmented saltwater segment by concentrating our efforts and leveraging our resources on such brands as Boston Whaler, Triton, Trophy, and our sportfishing offerings from Hatteras, Cabo and Albemarle, while sharpening our market focus and providing necessary cost reductions.”
Brunswick plans to cease production at the Newberry facility by the end of June 2008. Approximately 175 positions will be affected by this action, and qualifying
(more)
Brunswick Corporation
May 13, 2008
Page 2 of 2
(more)
employees will receive assistance aimed at helping them transition to other employment.
“This market-driven action should not be viewed as a reflection on the performance of our employees,” McCoy added. “As always, we will work hard with all affected–employees, dealers, suppliers, communities and consumers–to minimize the disruption that this decision may cause.”
As a result of these actions, the company said it will record a pretax charge of approximately $25 million to $30 million in the second quarter of 2008 to cover asset write-downs and other costs associated with the plant closure. Of that total, approximately 75 percent of the charge is non-cash and the remainder is cash. The company estimates that it will realize annualized pretax savings of approximately $9 million stemming from this decision.
Forward-Looking Statements
Certain statements in this news release are forward looking as defined in the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995. These uncertainties include, but are not limited to, the execution of the restructuring plan, economic conditions and other risks described in the company’s 2007 Annual Report on Form 10-K and Quarterly Report on Form 10-Q for the quarter ended March 29, 2008.
About Brunswick
Headquartered in Lake Forest, Ill., Brunswick Corporation endeavors to instill “Genuine Ingenuity”™ in all its leading consumer brands, including Mercury and Mariner outboard engines; Mercury MerCruiser sterndrives and inboard engines; MotorGuide trolling motors; Teignbridge propellers; MotoTron electronic controls; Albemarle, Arvor, Baja, Bayliner, Bermuda, Boston Whaler, Cabo Yachts, Crestliner, Cypress Cay, Harris, Hatteras, Kayot, Laguna, Lowe, Lund, Maxum, Meridian, Örnvik, Palmetto, Princecraft, Quicksilver, Rayglass, Savage, Sea Boss, Sea Pro, Sea Ray, Sealine, Triton, Trophy, Uttern and Valiant boats; Attwood marine parts and accessories; Land ‘N’ Sea, Kellogg Marine, Diversified Marine and Benrock parts and accessories distributors; IDS dealer management systems; Life Fitness, Hammer Strength and ParaBody fitness equipment; Brunswick bowling centers, equipment and consumer products; Brunswick billiards tables; and Dynamo, Tornado and Valley pool tables, Air Hockey and foosball tables. For more information, visit www.brunswick.com.

Kind of sad considering Sea Pro was actually starting to have some better looking deeper hulled boats in the 176, 186, 196, and the big dual console boat. Should be some good deals on 08's pretty soon.

Bummer for the folks that work at the Newberry facility... Starting to make more sense that the bay boats recently showed up sporting the Trophy brand.

Yeah, "badge engineering" at its finest.

No surprise, and this is just the beginning...

Hold on tight!

Seems like just yesterday Brunswick paid some $52,000,000.00 for the brands.

That is a shame, there are some great boats in there.

If there was a big CC market as a Builder, I'd snap up the 33 Palmetto mold and with a few modifications you could have one the best boats in the class, IMO. It is a fantastic riding boat.

Palmetto is going under??? :o :o :(

GS

I agree with wildlines somebody needs to buy the 33 mold .I own one and it is a riding son of gun some minor tweaks and it would be awesome .If your in the market for a sweet riding no frills fishing CC you need to buy one NOW i'm sure the warranty stuff will be covered by another plant.

I guess my Seapro will become a Classic.....

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r35/krisis7/003.jpg :roll

darren gordon - 5/13/2008 4:50 PM

I agree with wildlines somebody needs to buy the 33 mold .I own one and it is a riding son of gun some minor tweaks and it would be awesome .If your in the market for a sweet riding no frills fishing CC you need to buy one NOW i'm sure the warranty stuff will be covered by another plant.

That brings up a question. Joe Blow bought a Sea Pro two months ago. Is he completely screwed if he needs warranty work or parts?

I believe Brunswick will still honor the warranty as the parent company of the brand.

lol

My Seapro Sv1900 is exactly 2 weeks old. :D

I'm not really worried about it though. It's a great boat and as mentioned Brunswick is still in business and they're the ones that wrote the warranty. At least they didn't can Mercury too.

Wow! Little did I know I was buying a genuine "collector's item".

Okay, folks... bidding starts at $20K..... do I hear $21K ??

:trout:

Just got my sv2100 last week. It would be great to hear something about warranty work if needed. I will be on the phone in the a.m. with my dealer and factory

krisis7 - 5/13/2008 8:02 PM

I guess my Seapro will become a Classic.....




Mine too :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

I will be on the phone with my dealer as well. Warranty issues should they arise are now my concern. My sea pro is just 30 days old! Sure wish I would have known this sooner.

krisis7 - 5/13/2008 5:02 PM

I guess my Seapro will become a Classic.....

:roll










Or more than likely a Trophy...

:o

Guys, I wouldnt sweat it! You have a good company backing your product and wants to remain in good standings for the future of their brands. My biggest question would be what happens in a year or two when I need a relpacement piece to my boats interior etc..

GS

Guess we will be SOL!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sad to see this happen but cannot say i am suprised. I would look for Brunswick to make some other moves in the next few months as well. They will ship the molds to other boat companies in their boat division.Brunswick set themselves up to either make alot of money or loose a lot of money when they went on their boat company buying spree a couple of years ago. They would not close a company they paid 50 + million for unless they really had to as stockholders are not kind to those that throw that kind of money away. I am one that hopes they can hold on to what appears to be a very rough ride in the next couple of years.

Tommy and Jimmy Hancock must be laughing all the way to the bank.

The brothers sell the company in January 2005 for $51 million and less than 3.5 years later Brunswick has run it in to the ground.

Anybody want to bet on how long it takes them to do the same thing with Lund, Lowe and Crestliner?? Brunswick has all but destroyed these names as well.. way to go guys.

Brunswick dramatically improved the Seapro brand when they bought it. At least they did in my opinion. When they redesigned it in 2005 they sent a completely different boat to the dealers. I think it's just that this market isn't beneficial to the left hand competing against the right. In a slumping market it just doesn't make sense to not be consolidating brands and resources.

As I already said though, I don't think warranty will be an issue. My boat is warranteed by Brunswick and they aren't going anywhere.

What a shame. I guess I will give my dealer a call and ask him how warranty will be handled. I have a couple of small issues that I have been putting off. Guess I need to get it to the dealer to be taken care of.

I could see Sea Boss & Laguna going away, maybe even Palmetto (or absorb Palmetto into another brand) BUT SEA PRO! That was their bread and butter "entry" boat. I am sure many of the Sea Pro hulls will become Trophies.

Wouldn't have been a better move to dump Trophy and keep Sea Pro??? ;? ;? ;?

CORALREEFER - 5/14/2008 5:29 AM

Wouldn't have been a better move to dump Trophy and keep Sea Pro??? ;? ;? ;?

I would think so, but maybe because trophy has been around longer they kept it. Also trophy has some larger walkaround boats which sea pro does not.

ovrrdrive - 5/13/2008 7:01 AM

Brunswick dramatically improved the Seapro brand when they bought it. At least they did in my opinion. When they redesigned it in 2005 they sent a completely different boat to the dealers. I think it's just that this market isn't beneficial to the left hand competing against the right. In a slumping market it just doesn't make sense to not be consolidating brands and resources.

As I already said though, I don't think warranty will be an issue. My boat is warranteed by Brunswick and they aren't going anywhere.




Sorry I just about spit up on myself... are you kidding me?!? The quality of their boats immediately went south! This was simply an attempt to play defense on Yamaha. We all know that this brand flourished as a YAMAHA POWERED brand.. Brunswick just doesn't seem to get it... YAMAHA made that brand pop.. they just figured they'd convert their 3 biggest dealers right on over to Mercury (Chatlee, Eds, Hanckel)-- Chatlee kinda played ball for a while but that was about it. Hanckel is now Scouts biggest dealer (YAMAHA) and Ed is... well- they're Ed's.

So let's review... whats happened in the last 4 years? They eroded the Sea Pro dealer network, they showed their continued lack of faith / future with the independent dealer network (Laguna's at Marine Max's on top of their dealers... although typical considering Bass Pro and Gander Mtn) tarnished the Sea Pro name... allowed other Yamaha brands to rise in the Sea Pro "slot" all while Yamaha INcreased their market-share (approx 35% now across all engine categories). Oh and by the way they stroked a check for 51 million dollars. That's absolutely AWESOME-- I sure wish I was a Mercury / Brunswick boat dealer :thumbsup:


Anybody seen Glen?

You have to wonder how the dealers of these brands will fare. Sure some of them will pick up new lines where they can if someone else around the corner is not already carrying it. The folks at the dealerships will not have the financial "assistance" of Brunswick to help like the folks at the plant.

If they are going to close the plant next month but yet continue the sales through the 2009 model year in July of 2009 does that mean they feel like they have a year's worth of inventory sitting around? Sure sales will drop off after this announcement but still why not just announce you are going to sell off the remaining boats rather than claiming they will continue through the model year.

ohilovewater - 5/14/2008 5:28 AM

ovrrdrive - 5/13/2008 7:01 AM

Brunswick dramatically improved the Seapro brand when they bought it. At least they did in my opinion. When they redesigned it in 2005 they sent a completely different boat to the dealers. I think it's just that this market isn't beneficial to the left hand competing against the right. In a slumping market it just doesn't make sense to not be consolidating brands and resources.

As I already said though, I don't think warranty will be an issue. My boat is warranteed by Brunswick and they aren't going anywhere.




Sorry I just about spit up on myself... are you kidding me?!? The quality of their boats immediately went south! This was simply an attempt to play defense on Yamaha. We all know that this brand flourished as a YAMAHA POWERED brand.. Brunswick just doesn't seem to get it... YAMAHA made that brand pop.. they just figured they'd convert their 3 biggest dealers right on over to Mercury (Chatlee, Eds, Hanckel)-- Chatlee kinda played ball for a while but that was about it. Hanckel is now Scouts biggest dealer (YAMAHA) and Ed is... well- they're Ed's.

So let's review... whats happened in the last 4 years? They eroded the Sea Pro dealer network, they showed their continued lack of faith / future with the independent dealer network (Laguna's at Marine Max's on top of their dealers... although typical considering Bass Pro and Gander Mtn) tarnished the Sea Pro name... allowed other Yamaha brands to rise in the Sea Pro "slot" all while Yamaha INcreased their market-share (approx 35% now across all engine categories). Oh and by the way they stroked a check for 51 million dollars. That's absolutely AWESOME-- I sure wish I was a Mercury / Brunswick boat dealer :thumbsup:
Anybody seen Glen?

You got it exactly right.

EJ

shemstreet - 5/14/2008 2:36 PM

Kind of sad considering Sea Pro was actually starting to have some better looking deeper hulled boats in the 176, 186, 196, and the big dual console boat. Should be some good deals on 08's pretty soon.

I wouldn't buy one no matter how good a deal. The last thing I want is a boat made by some guy that is looseing his job, from a company that won't be around to stand behind his sloppy work... :(

Really sad for Sea Pro. I had a 2000 170 CC and loved it.
But I am actually happy knowing that I considered Sea Pro when buying my latest boat, and went another direction. Brunswick was part of my reason why.

OH, and THT Mob and all the shared opinions :tht_rulez:

Is Whaler is jeopardy?????????.......Last year when replacing my 26 Outrage, I bought a Grady (and, for my wife, a life raft so we are "unsinkable " :)...........The PRIMARY reason........ Yammies on the back ...........Been there, done that with Mercs!..... I would hate to see an old icon like Whaler destroyed by Brunswick..........Does anyone think they might wake up and give the dealers an engine choice......or are they willing to lose both boat and engine sales?

Hmmm...... I wonder if they couldn't handle the production loss after Ed's Marine dropped the line after the Brunswick buyout.
Ed's use to have several of those Sea Pros a day going out the door. Funny how when a local dealer picked up the line, prices
went up about 25%. I won't mention names, but the the same Sea Pro 206 that Ed's had at $26K was at the new dealer for $35K

Thanks Brunswick. Another fine marketing strategy. :roll

Bob's Cay - 5/14/2008 8:45 AM

You have to wonder how the dealers of these brands will fare. Sure some of them will pick up new lines where they can if someone else around the corner is not already carrying it. The folks at the dealerships will not have the financial "assistance" of Brunswick to help like the folks at the plant.

If they are going to close the plant next month but yet continue the sales through the 2009 model year in July of 2009 does that mean they feel like they have a year's worth of inventory sitting around? Sure sales will drop off after this announcement but still why not just announce you are going to sell off the remaining boats rather than claiming they will continue through the model year.

If I am not mistaken, Brunswick has made a move the past couple of years to have all the Sea Pros sold by Brunswick owned dealers. That is why the Sea Pro line in Charleston moved from Hanckel to Duncans. Don't know how it is everywhere, but the Sea Pro dealer here (Duncans) also sells the Trophy line. I think Brunwick has been planning this for a while looking back on some of the moves they made.

I was ready to buy a SeaPro 2100 SV with a 150 Mercury Verado, but from the sounds of this thread I should go with my 2nd choice of a Hydra-sport Lightning 180 CC. with a Yamaha 115. Is that right?

The price is the same but with the SeaPro I can have more room (the wife demands it and we have a 9 month old with plans to get started on #2 in the next year). Now I'm worried about the quality of the boat I'll be buying if I get into a SeaPro.

Also, this will be at least a 5-year boat for the family, probably 10.

guiltypleasure - 5/15/2008 6:44 AM

I was ready to buy a SeaPro 2100 SV with a 150 Mercury Verado, but from the sounds of this thread I should go with my 2nd choice of a Hydra-sport Lightning 180 CC. with a Yamaha 115. Is that right?

The price is the same but with the SeaPro I can have more room (the wife demands it and we have a 9 month old with plans to get started on #2 in the next year). Now I'm worried about the quality of the boat I'll be buying if I get into a SeaPro.

Also, this will be at least a 5-year boat for the family, probably 10.

Look at the Clearwater 2100 and the Tidewater 21ft Bay boats. Especially before you go down in size. Both can be had with Yamaha power

Tidewater was started by a former partner in the sea pro family. Jimmy metts. Boy that hull looks familiar

Not to derail the thread, but pros/cons on the Tidewater 216CC or the 21 Bay.

Sad that Sea Pro is going to stop making boats. I bought a 2005 206 DC with a Yamaha F225 when it was still family owned, very nice well built boat. My brother bought the same model in 2006(1st year Brunswick produced it) and had to send it back to the factory and was out of his boat for months because of tons of gelcracks. No Structural damage in the 2006, but the gel cracks drove him nuts.

guiltypleasure - 5/14/2008 7:44 AM

I was ready to buy a SeaPro 2100 SV with a 150 Mercury Verado, but from the sounds of this thread I should go with my 2nd choice of a Hydra-sport Lightning 180 CC. with a Yamaha 115. Is that right?

The price is the same but with the SeaPro I can have more room (the wife demands it and we have a 9 month old with plans to get started on #2 in the next year). Now I'm worried about the quality of the boat I'll be buying if I get into a SeaPro.

Also, this will be at least a 5-year boat for the family, probably 10.

Take a look at the Sea Hunt boat line

guiltypleasure - 5/14/2008 10:44 AM I was ready to buy a SeaPro 2100 SV with a 150 Mercury Verado, but from the sounds of this thread I should go with my 2nd choice of a Hydra-sport Lightning 180 CC. with a Yamaha 115. Is that right? ................

No, it wouldn't be what I would do.. You are not looking at two similar models, they are very different boats. A bay boat and a CC only have one thing in common, a center console. You need to figure out how you are going to use your boat so you can decide what is best. It's actually pretty simple; If your primary use for the boat is notcasting plugs or flies, buy a CC where the focus is on a well laid out cockpit. If you're thing is tossing jigs andplugs (like me), or fly fishing then you can't beat a bay boat for the large high decks. But those same beautiful decks with nothing to hold on to are about impossible to stand on, even in 2' seas. Contrary to what you may read here, there is more to boating than running W.O.T.

guiltypleasure - 5/14/2008 6:44 AM

I was ready to buy a SeaPro 2100 SV with a 150 Mercury Verado,

Buy the same boat with a TROPHY sticker on the side.

http://www.trophyfishing.com/brochure.asp?modelid=112546

A Few Dollars - 5/14/2008 12:49 PM

guiltypleasure - 5/14/2008 6:44 AM

I was ready to buy a SeaPro 2100 SV with a 150 Mercury Verado,

Buy the same boat with a TROPHY sticker on the side.

http://www.trophyfishing.com/brochure.asp?modelid=112546

Made in Maryland :thumbsup: Keep our economy rolling :)

Looks like Trophy has already "rebadged" quite a few Sea Pros

http://www.trophyfishing.com/dual-consoles.asp
http://www.trophyfishing.com/bay-boat.asp

khwannam - 5/14/2008 9:28 AM Is Whaler is jeopardy?????????.......

Wouldn't that be ironic. Their boats being unsinkable, boat no one ever considered the whole darn brand going under.

Personally, I don't see that happening. Of course that's just my opinion.

How do you think you could go about purchasing some of the molds?

I know the economy has made things bad, but I so think its amazing how boat sales started to suffer as soon as they limited customers to Merc only motors. People want the opportunity to have a choice on a new boat. My boat was the last Palmetto to leave the factory with Yamaha's, and it was amazing how sales dropped off right after that.

gf - 5/13/2008 9:04 PM


Tommy and Jimmy Hancock must be laughing all the way to the bank.

The brothers sell the company in January 2005 for $51 million and less than 3.5 years later Brunswick has run it in to the ground.


Whats sad is that when the company was sold it was doing very well. In just the first year of ownership Brunswick started posting a loss.

A Few Dollars - 5/13/2008 12:49 PM

guiltypleasure - 5/14/2008 6:44 AM

I was ready to buy a SeaPro 2100 SV with a 150 Mercury Verado,

Buy the same boat with a TROPHY sticker on the side.

http://www.trophyfishing.com/brochure.asp?modelid=112546


Why??? So Brunswick can turn around.... cancel the TROPHY name and leave their customers with no warranty?!? No thanks... Consumer confidence for anything under the Brunswick umbrella has to be at an all time low... including Mercury outboards. And is it just me or does this look like... dare we say... OMC in the making?!?!

This is sad news for the Newberry employees. Maybe Tidewater will be able to absorb them- the Tidewaters seem as popular now as the Sea Pros used to be in Charleston where I boat.

I also hope someone buys the Palmetto molds- the 33 was my dream boat for a while. The 23 is a really nice boat too.

Talked to Sea Pro today and also my dealer. I was told by both parties warranty work if needed wuold not be a problem. Dealer seems to think that maybe Sea Pro will be made at the Trophy factory (Chev.& GMC) but who knows. Still hard to think that the Sea Pro name will be done away with.

ProSports builds the SeaQuest Boat line of Center Consoles and Bay Boats. Their 2100PB and 1900PB are look alikes to the 2100SV and 1900SV. No mercs-just Yamy and Zukes.
http://www.seaquestboats.biz

A Few Dollars is dead on. The Trophy boat is the exact boat as the Sea Pro sv2100

Order a bare boat and put whatever power that you want on it. I have a 2006 SeaPro 196 with a Yamaha 150 4 stroke......

fishcop - 5/14/2008 1:35 PM

I know the economy has made things bad, but I so think its amazing how boat sales started to suffer as soon as they limited customers to Merc only motors. People want the opportunity to have a choice on a new boat. My boat was the last Palmetto to leave the factory with Yamaha's, and it was amazing how sales dropped off right after that.

You get no choice on Grady or Pursuit. Maybe having an engine brand choice would help them.

ohilovewater - 5/14/2008 4:11 PM

A Few Dollars - 5/13/2008 12:49 PM

guiltypleasure - 5/14/2008 6:44 AM

I was ready to buy a SeaPro 2100 SV with a 150 Mercury Verado,

Buy the same boat with a TROPHY sticker on the side.

http://www.trophyfishing.com/brochure.asp?modelid=112546


Why??? So Brunswick can turn around.... cancel the TROPHY name and leave their customers with no warranty?!? No thanks... Consumer confidence for anything under the Brunswick umbrella has to be at an all time low... including Mercury outboards. And is it just me or does this look like... dare we say... OMC in the making?!?!

That is utterly absurd. I see more Mercs than any other single brand.

Seacat FL - 5/14/2008 6:01 PM



That is utterly absurd. I see more Mercs than any other single brand.

Most of this thread is pure speculation and absolutely absurd...

Sea Pro boats are great. I have one int he driveway and I love it more than any boat I've ever owned.

Of course, that opinion could change in 10 years but it's a great boat.

Afishinado - 5/14/2008 11:56 AM



guiltypleasure - 5/14/2008 10:44 AM I was ready to buy a SeaPro 2100 SV with a 150 Mercury Verado, but from the sounds of this thread I should go with my 2nd choice of a Hydra-sport Lightning 180 CC. with a Yamaha 115. Is that right? ................

No, it wouldn't be what I would do..* You are not looking at two similar models,* they are very different boats.* A bay boat and a CC only have one thing in common, a center console.* You need to figure out how you are going to use your boat so you can decide what is best.* It's actually pretty simple;* If your primary use for the boat is not*casting plugs or flies, buy a CC where the focus is on a well laid out cockpit.* If you're thing is tossing jigs and*plugs (like me), or fly fishing then you can't beat a bay boat for the large high decks.* But those same beautiful decks with nothing to hold on to are about impossible to stand on, even in 2' seas.* Contrary to what you may read here, there is more to boating than running W.O.T.


Listen to Afish......he is giving you some good advice, and take it from me a guy who made a $7500+ mistake and bought a Bay Boat when I needed/wanted a CC.


And I remember touring the SeaPro/Pametto Factory in Feb 05 right when the take over was going on.....the we're all excited about "Opti's & Verados" (or so they tried to act like).....its a shame they're shutting that place down, Im sure lots of house holds up there in Newbery will be affected.

(and I also remember seeing Fishcop's boat getting detailed at the end of the production line, right before it was headed out the doors.....thats a pretty boat :thumbsup: )

Seacat FL - 5/13/2008 6:01 PM

ohilovewater - 5/14/2008 4:11 PM

A Few Dollars - 5/13/2008 12:49 PM

guiltypleasure - 5/14/2008 6:44 AM

I was ready to buy a SeaPro 2100 SV with a 150 Mercury Verado,

Buy the same boat with a TROPHY sticker on the side.

http://www.trophyfishing.com/brochure.asp?modelid=112546


Why??? So Brunswick can turn around.... cancel the TROPHY name and leave their customers with no warranty?!? No thanks... Consumer confidence for anything under the Brunswick umbrella has to be at an all time low... including Mercury outboards. And is it just me or does this look like... dare we say... OMC in the making?!?!

That is utterly absurd. I see more Mercs than any other single brand.



There were probably a lot of Johnson's & Evinrude's seen in the 80's and 90's too but that didn't work out... and you don't see many Merc's on transoms where they weren't forced to take the engine... i.e. Whaler.


Mercury = Dictator / Yamaha= Democracy


Boat companies put Yamaha's on their transoms because they CHOOSE to... not because they were told they HAD to.

DE JA VUE

I made this prediction in 2005 regarding Brunswick. It is from the thread

http://www.thehulltruth.com/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=63790&start=21&highlight=Brunswick+buys+Triton&highlightmode=1

looneytunes - 5/31/2005 7:59 PM

This buy em' and force you to power with our engine is pure suicide. The economy is not that good, and the price of gas is out of control.

I predict: If the price of gas doesn't come down, boat sales will drop drastically. I have spoken to several dealers in my area and they reported that the boat show sales were sharply down this year. They are blaming it on the instability of gas prices.

This will work against Brunswick. People may be more inclined to buy a used boat to save some money up front. The buy everything tactic will weigh like an anchor :grin: on Brunswicks balance sheets.

If the new boat business doesn't pick up with in a few years. a lot of those companies will be sold to float Mercury.

Any body who has some money and wants to buy some boat molds. . . . . . . . Get ready. Their will be several formerly Brunswick boat molds for sale in a couple of years. I'm saving my pennys for the Albemarle molds. That means I've got dibs guys. . . . Everybody else back off. ;) Buy a Sea Pro mold or something. ;)


LooneyTunes
Dave

looneytunes - 5/14/2008 7:40 PM

DE JA VUE

I made this prediction in 2005 regarding Brunswick. It is from the thread

http://www.thehulltruth.com/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=63790&start=21&highlight=Brunswick+buys+Triton&highlightmode=1

looneytunes - 5/31/2005 7:59 PM

This buy em' and force you to power with our engine is pure suicide. The economy is not that good, and the price of gas is out of control.

I predict: If the price of gas doesn't come down, boat sales will drop drastically. I have spoken to several dealers in my area and they reported that the boat show sales were sharply down this year. They are blaming it on the instability of gas prices.

This will work against Brunswick. People may be more inclined to buy a used boat to save some money up front. The buy everything tactic will weigh like an anchor :grin: on Brunswicks balance sheets.

If the new boat business doesn't pick up with in a few years. a lot of those companies will be sold to float Mercury.

Any body who has some money and wants to buy some boat molds. . . . . . . . Get ready. Their will be several formerly Brunswick boat molds for sale in a couple of years. I'm saving my pennys for the Albemarle molds. That means I've got dibs guys. . . . Everybody else back off. ;) Buy a Sea Pro mold or something. ;)


LooneyTunes
Dave




I don't suppose you pick lottery tickets too do you? :rofl:

Ok,It is a very sad day when I think the number is 175 familes are out of work reguardless the reason and numerous boat owners no longer have a builder. All the yamy owners and mercury owners have the same issue with Sea Pro. As far as the quality of the two motors I wouldn't walk across the street for the difference. But, that black verado does look good hanging off the yellow transom of that Sea Pro!!!!!

ohilovewater - 5/14/2008 7:17 PM

Seacat FL - 5/13/2008 6:01 PM

ohilovewater - 5/14/2008 4:11 PM

A Few Dollars - 5/13/2008 12:49 PM

guiltypleasure - 5/14/2008 6:44 AM

I was ready to buy a SeaPro 2100 SV with a 150 Mercury Verado,

Buy the same boat with a TROPHY sticker on the side.

http://www.trophyfishing.com/brochure.asp?modelid=112546


Why??? So Brunswick can turn around.... cancel the TROPHY name and leave their customers with no warranty?!? No thanks... Consumer confidence for anything under the Brunswick umbrella has to be at an all time low... including Mercury outboards. And is it just me or does this look like... dare we say... OMC in the making?!?!

That is utterly absurd. I see more Mercs than any other single brand.



There were probably a lot of Johnson's & Evinrude's seen in the 80's and 90's too but that didn't work out... and you don't see many Merc's on transoms where they weren't forced to take the engine... i.e. Whaler.


Mercury = Dictator / Yamaha= Democracy


Boat companies put Yamaha's on their transoms because they CHOOSE to... not because they were told they HAD to.

Not if they bought a Grady or Pursuit.

Grady and Pursuit CHOOSE to only offer Yamaha because it adds value to their products. Yamaha does not OWN either one of them.

This is a crying shame. Especially since I just bought a used 2004 2100 SVCC a month ago. Kinda explains why I couldn't get anyone at the factory to pick up the phone so I could get a copy of the 2004 owners manual. BTW,does anyone know if Brunswick picked up the 10 year tranferrable warranty when they bought Sea Pro or was it an asset only purchase ? Still love my boat though!

ohilovewater - 5/14/2008 8:50 PM

Grady and Pursuit CHOOSE to only offer Yamaha because it adds value to their products.



that's funny,


they choose to put them on there like Parker cuz they get a better deal.

Call and talked to Sea Pro today and yes Brunswick picked up the warranty. If there is any silver lining to this we can be thankful that Brunswick is a large corp. and not family owned and a very strong company.

if they were still family owned, good chance they wouldnt be going under to begin with...

You may be right put in today's economy who knows. I have seen family company's sold to large corp. and when the corp. down sized or made some decision based on the market the company was bought back by the first owners at a fire sale price. With employees in place and the faculties it would or could be a good deal. No doubt the product is there.

dubb - 5/15/2008 9:05 AM

How do you think you could go about purchasing some of the molds?

easy, all you need is 52 million and some change... :grin:

I'm sure Brunswick, being the conglomerate they are, has a lot of financial cushion to weather the storm. Still, I think they are having a tough time, more so than their competitors. They have been scaling back their financial outlooks repeatedly over the past year. Several months ago they laid off some people at Albermarle.
This is just speculation on my part but I'm thinking that Mercury still needs to sell a lot more Verados to recoup their investment. Losing a popular line such as Sea Pro is going to hurt Mercury by having fewer transoms to mount the Verados.
I would imagine that Brunswick will move several more SeaPro molds over to Trophy and they will concentrate on expanding that brand.
I guess this is just a sign of the times, the marine industry as a whole is holding their breath. There is going to be plenty of smaller builders falling by the wayside.

I also heard that there are 175 SeaPro's (talk about a backlog!) sitting in the lot at Newberry. If this is true, I wonder what is going to happen to them?

Too bad for boat buyers and those folks losing their jobs. Double whammy of $4.00 gas and a sinking economy.

My guess is not to many people will be buying boats with their "stimulus" checks. I look for a lot of the "casual" boaters to get out of boating. Boat sales are going to be to the hard core that really value their time on the water.

ohilovewater - 5/14/2008 8:50 PM

Grady and Pursuit CHOOSE to only offer Yamaha because it adds value to their products. Yamaha does not OWN either one of them.

Grady and Pursuit + Yamaha = Dictators

Mercury = Dictator / Yamaha= Democracy


Boat companies put Yamaha's on their transoms because they CHOOSE to... not because they were told they HAD to


Not a truer word has been spoken in the whole thread. The people who rig Yammies rig them out of choice, they could put Evinrude, Mercs or whatever, they CHOSE Yamaha. Now they dictate to you what you can buy from them, but I'm sure they listened to their customers and target clientele and most asked for Yammies, so that's what they gave them. A lot of this is still leftover from the Optibomb mess in the late 90's. Yamaha capitalized on that like no tomorrow.

Somethin-Fishey - 5/15/2008 1:02 AM

Mercury = Dictator / Yamaha= Democracy


Boat companies put Yamaha's on their transoms because they CHOOSE to... not because they were told they HAD to


Not a truer word has been spoken in the whole thread. The people who rig Yammies rig them out of choice, they could put Evinrude, Mercs or whatever, they CHOSE Yamaha. Now they dictate to you what you can buy from them,

Their customers have no choice. Sounds like democracy in the good old USSR

Somethin-Fishey - 5/14/2008 10:02 PM

Mercury = Dictator / Yamaha= Democracy


Boat companies put Yamaha's on their transoms because they CHOOSE to... not because they were told they HAD to


Not a truer word has been spoken in the whole thread. The people who rig Yammies rig them out of choice, they could put Evinrude, Mercs or whatever, they CHOSE Yamaha. Now they dictate to you what you can buy from them, but I'm sure they listened to their customers and target clientele and most asked for Yammies, so that's what they gave them. A lot of this is still leftover from the Optibomb mess in the late 90's. Yamaha capitalized on that like no tomorrow.







How is that? If a corporation owns both engine manufacturer and boat manufacturer then how is that dictatorship? If you don't like the package then there is other brands to shop from. Thats no different then Dodge not making a long bed megacab. They lose sales every day to GM and Ford because the truck does not have a 8' bed. If you don't like the package then shop elsewhere. If it was a dictatorship you would not be able to shop elsewhere. No one is forcing you to buy a Brunswick boat. :roll

I talked to the SeaPro dealer yesterday. Here's what he confirmed for me:
- Yes, SeaPro will be stopped in 2009. It will be rolled into the Trophy line (as most of you have already pointed out).
- The SeaPro warranties will still be honored. Actually, they will be honored by any boat shop in the Brunswick family. That's pretty nice but I would definitely get it in writing before I made a purchase.

Brunswick disclosed a very short list of six brands that they will focus on, including only 4 of interest to us here. This will cast a big shadow to other brands they still own, for example Sea Ray. If this is Brunswick, imagine how the independents are doing.

The whole Yamaha thing was about volume discounts in many cases. As well as the demise of OMC. They are a lot cheaper than anyone else. As far as the boat builders are concerned that is all they need to see. They choose the lowest price. What gets me is the way Yamaha makes is up in other areas. Namely at the parts prices end.

It is tough to compete with free engines if you are Merc and others who are not going to cheapen there engine's to compete. I think Yamaha was banking on that a little, too. Like the auto industry trying to compete with asian cars. Not going to happen. :nono:

Seawolf2 - 5/15/2008 7:03 AM................... If this is Brunswick, imagine how the independents are doing.

Probably not as bad. Independents like Grady, Pursuit, Maverick, etc didn't spend amountain of money designing your favorite Verado, nor did they dump many millions buying transoms in hopes of gaining market share so the investment in the Veradoappears to payoff... IMHO, it's the difference between privately held companies spending their own money, and a publicly held company spendingsomeone elsesmoney.

Once again, for those who don't know, Grady, Pursuit, Maverick get big $ advantages for selling their rigs with only Yam, ditto Yamaha dealers.... That's why you will see that many if not most Yamaha dealers sell only Yamaha outboards, they get benefits for selling only Yam($$$$)... End of season kickbacks, free freight, free freight on partsas examples... The other reason they do it is that Yamaha makes great motors, which makes happy customers...Yamaha made just one questionablemotor in 25 years that I know of... Nobody else can say that.

Yam is just giving stuff away right now. ;?

Afishinado - 5/15/2008 8:25 AM
Yamaha made just one questionable*motor in 25 years that I know of...* Nobody else can say that.

I dunno AFish....my F250 is still making a squeaking noise sometimes........ ;) ;) J/K.....

You actually make some very real & valid points about the whole process.......either way, I hate to see the Sea Pro name fade away, growing up in Columbia SC, I got very used to seeing those boats everywhere. I guess its just part of the times, Im sure just like Hydra Sports (whom I got laid off from in 2001 when they went under) is still producing boats, Im guessing SeaPro will too, maybe not as many this YEAR or next....but just like anything nowadays, this page will turn, and a new chapter will start.

I was all over the new Sea Pro 270 Express at the Texas International Boat Show last month and I was very impressed with the boat. I wonder why Sea Pro would spend the money to design an awesome boat like that right before shutting down?

Trophy's Center Consoles jump from 21' to 25' and their Walkarounds from 25' to 29'. Hmmm, could we see the Sea Pro 228CC, 237CC, or 270CC get a Trophy tag? Maybe the 270WA??? I certainly have no info...was just sayin'

Sorry if it was posted, but what does this mean for people that need warranty work?

I wonder if Brunswick will look at any overlap in their big boats Albemarle, Hatteras, Cabo and thin that group I know Albemarle just laid off 1/3 of their people last week. They also got plenty of unsold boats behind the factory just collecting dust :o

Thank you for that interesting information. A few years ago Brunswick also dumped Robalo which is now a money maker. Anyone that bought a Brunswick made boat and is not happy about it serves you right for dealing with those incompetent idiots. Genmar is no better. Stay with the smaller better run operations that have been in business a long time and do not put on dealers like the liars at Eds so called super store.

Yeah I also heard there was a ton of boat sitting behing the sea pro factory, and that they have actually been there since jan. Sounds to me like Brunswick is a poorly run company, and with all the issues the Verado has been having, I hope they don't go under.

Email I got today from Brunswick:

Mr. Fleming,
Our warranty remains in effect as stated in the Fiberglass Boat Express Limited Warranty sheet included
with the MSO for each boat. Bluewater Marine will continue to have customer service representatives
available to assist as needed, and will honor the terms of the limited warranty for the stated duration of
the limited warranty period. A copy of the Sea Pro Boat Company Fiberglass Boat Express Limited
Warranty is attached for your reference. The other brands have an identical Express Limited Warranty.
Thank you,
William

ROLLO TOMASI - 5/15/2008 8:54 AM

Thank you for that interesting information. A few years ago Brunswick also dumped Robalo which is now a money maker. Anyone that bought a Brunswick made boat and is not happy about it serves you right for dealing with those incompetent idiots. Genmar is no better. Stay with the smaller better run operations that have been in business a long time and do not put on dealers like the liars at Eds so called super store.

Great first post.
:roll

boatmike - 5/15/2008 6:54 AM

I was all over the new Sea Pro 270 Express at the Texas International Boat Show last month and I was very impressed with the boat. I wonder why Sea Pro would spend the money to design an awesome boat like that right before shutting down?

That 27' Sea pro Express has been out for several years.

shredder - 5/15/2008 8:26 AM

I wonder if Brunswick will look at any overlap in their big boats Albemarle, Hatteras, Cabo and thin that group I know Albemarle just laid off 1/3 of their people last week. They also got plenty of unsold boats behind the factory just collecting dust :o

Probabally won't be long.

fishcop - 5/15/2008 12:57 PM

Yeah I also heard there was a ton of boat sitting behing the sea pro factory, and that they have actually been there since jan. Sounds to me like Brunswick is a poorly run company, and with all the issues the Verado has been having, I hope they don't go under.

Funny, I haven't heard of the Verado issues you refer to. Maybe you were thinking of Yamaha and the discontinued 250 & 300 that gave them such a bad rep.

Seacat FL - 5/15/2008 1:29 PM

fishcop - 5/15/2008 12:57 PM

Yeah I also heard there was a ton of boat sitting behing the sea pro factory, and that they have actually been there since jan. Sounds to me like Brunswick is a poorly run company, and with all the issues the Verado has been having, I hope they don't go under.

Funny, I haven't heard of the Verado issues you refer to. Maybe you were thinking of Yamaha and the discontinued 250 & 300 that gave them such a bad rep.


You guys are to funny....... :grin:

I sold Sea Pro's from 1996-2004, Over all this was a good boat line for a dealer, Very affordable to the boater. I hope in better times the line will be revived?

A Few Dollars - 5/15/2008 10:09 AM

boatmike - 5/15/2008 6:54 AM

I was all over the new Sea Pro 270 Express at the Texas International Boat Show last month and I was very impressed with the boat. I wonder why Sea Pro would spend the money to design an awesome boat like that right before shutting down?

That 27' Sea pro Express has been out for several years.

Really? The Sea Pro Sales Rep said that it was an all new boat that was only shown at Miami prior to the show???

Sea Pro will have all warranties as promised by Bluewater Marine Group(Brunswick)

With the rebates they are now offering you will be able to buy a new boat at close to used boat prices with FULL warranties. SeaPro builds a sought after product but the economic times have taken its toll. This is just the first of many companies to readjust to the market conditions. They currently have about 110 units pre built and will continue until June 30. After the 30th they will move operations to the trophy plant and most models will be built under the trophy logo. In the past year or so they retooled most of their line from the 270 express down to the 176 CC.

It was a sad day for all of the workers who must now find employment elsewhere in Newberry SC.

Thanks for the warranty info hlb and leetke. I'm hoping I won't need to use it.

Same here MD3. I also have a 2100 SVCC. Picked it up last week and so far love it. Again I don't think we have anything to be concern about.

Don't Worry .....Names change but the core does not.......Have a dry Ride!!!!!

Rumor is Albe let 35 people go last week.

boatmike - 5/15/2008 12:23 PM

A Few Dollars - 5/15/2008 10:09 AM

boatmike - 5/15/2008 6:54 AM

I was all over the new Sea Pro 270 Express at the Texas International Boat Show last month and I was very impressed with the boat. I wonder why Sea Pro would spend the money to design an awesome boat like that right before shutting down?

That 27' Sea pro Express has been out for several years.

Really? The Sea Pro Sales Rep said that it was an all new boat that was only shown at Miami prior to the show???

The "EXPRESS" name is new. Back in 2005 it was called the 270 Walk-around.

timebandit - 5/14/2008 8:21 AM

The whole Yamaha thing was about volume discounts in many cases. As well as the demise of OMC. They are a lot cheaper than anyone else. As far as the boat builders are concerned that is all they need to see. They choose the lowest price. What gets me is the way Yamaha makes is up in other areas. Namely at the parts prices end.

It is tough to compete with free engines if you are Merc and others who are not going to cheapen there engine's to compete. I think Yamaha was banking on that a little, too. Like the auto industry trying to compete with asian cars. Not going to happen. :nono:


Wow. first of all... Yamaha is not and have never been the cheapest thing on the block. You must be referring to SUZUKI and ETEC who will pull their pants down and bend over for ANY OEM that will pay them any attention. Do you really think companies like Grady White, Regulator, Pursuit, etc chose to be exclusive b/c it's the CHEAPEST?!? Come on.. nothing about those boats are cheap. That's not their market. You want CHEAP?? Look at a SEA FOX / SUZUKI relationship.

Stupid comment.

I'm not too concerned about the warranty on my new boat, but the resale of a dead brand does concern me.

I'm not planning to dump it for 5-10 years, but eventually I'll probably want to go longer.

A Few Dollars - 5/15/2008 10:08 AM

ROLLO TOMASI - 5/15/2008 8:54 AM

Thank you for that interesting information. A few years ago Brunswick also dumped Robalo which is now a money maker. Anyone that bought a Brunswick made boat and is not happy about it serves you right for dealing with those incompetent idiots. Genmar is no better. Stay with the smaller better run operations that have been in business a long time and do not put on dealers like the liars at Eds so called super store.

Great first post.

:roll

Thats not his first post. Hey deadwood hows it going. By the way you can call me an idiot if you like but where is rollo tomasi from. I know the name is surrounded by intrigue in some story but I can't remember now which one.

Unfortunately, when you are the aquisition of a larger corporation, your job security is about as good as the economy dictates when it comes to boat manufacturers. I wonder how the founder of Sea Pro feels.....although he and his family has their golden parachute, all the employees he left behind are in free-fall.

Maybe not. The 270 Walkaround had ride issues related to the weight of the hard top. I wouldn't be surprised if they redesigned it from scratch.

pariah

Wolakrab - 5/16/2008 8:49 AM

Unfortunately, when you are the aquisition of a larger corporation, your job security is about as good as the economy dictates when it comes to boat manufacturers. I wonder how the founder of Sea Pro feels.....although he and his family has their golden parachute, all the employees he left behind are in free-fall.

Sad but so true. I work for a large corporation that owns our company along with many others. They rarely visit.
Its all about the numbers and satisfying wall street expectations nowadays. We are busy but so was the west coast plant
right before they were shut down. :o

ohilovewater - 5/15/2008 10:11 PM

timebandit - 5/14/2008 8:21 AM

The whole Yamaha thing was about volume discounts in many cases. As well as the demise of OMC. They are a lot cheaper than anyone else. As far as the boat builders are concerned that is all they need to see. They choose the lowest price. What gets me is the way Yamaha makes is up in other areas. Namely at the parts prices end.

It is tough to compete with free engines if you are Merc and others who are not going to cheapen there engine's to compete. I think Yamaha was banking on that a little, too. Like the auto industry trying to compete with asian cars. Not going to happen. :nono:


Wow. first of all... Yamaha is not and have never been the cheapest thing on the block. You must be referring to SUZUKI and ETEC who will pull their pants down and bend over for ANY OEM that will pay them any attention. Do you really think companies like Grady White, Regulator, Pursuit, etc chose to be exclusive b/c it's the CHEAPEST?!? Come on.. nothing about those boats are cheap. That's not their market. You want CHEAP?? Look at a SEA FOX / SUZUKI relationship.

Stupid comment.

his statement didnot indicate Yamaha built a cheap product but stated what is fact. Yamaha sells their engines cheaper to the OEM's than anyone else if they sign their agrement. Most of the OEM's have a contract with Yamaha that states that they (the OEM) must buy at least 95 % of their engines from Yamaha to be guaranteed engines & recieve their large discount.
as we all know over the years Yamaha has been one of the most expensive brands in the RETAIL market but they sell cheaper than anyone to the OEMS.

aftergolf - 5/15/2008 6:42 PM Rumor is Albe let 35 people go last week.

EDENTON, N.C. – To reduce costs and size its staff appropriately for market demand, Albemarle Boats eliminated 35 jobs yesterday, said Dan Kubera, director of public and financial relations for Albemarle parent Brunswick Corporation.

The economy, including high gas prices and the housing slump, has affected consumer confidence and eroded discretionary spending, Kubera said.

“As a result, we must conservatively manage our inventory, keep our organization lean and efficient, and focus investment and resources toward activity that will help us emerge from the current slowdown in the United States a stronger and more profitable organization,” Kubera said.

The job reduction comes as no surprise given the warnings Brunswick Chairman and CEO Dustan E. McCoy gave during Brunswick’s first quarter 2008 earnings conference call.

“Given these market conditions, we will continue to cut production versus 2007 in the second quarter,” McCoy said during the call. “All this speaks to the need to continue pursuing efficiency gains.”

A little over 100 positions remain in the boat builder’s workforce.

“We continue to act on several internal fronts to protect the overall health of our business,” Kubera said. “Where necessary, we will transition talent throughout the organization to maintain our core work force and the skill sets.”

SCAngler - 5/15/2008 2:15 PM

ohilovewater - 5/15/2008 10:11 PM

timebandit - 5/14/2008 8:21 AM

The whole Yamaha thing was about volume discounts in many cases. As well as the demise of OMC. They are a lot cheaper than anyone else. As far as the boat builders are concerned that is all they need to see. They choose the lowest price. What gets me is the way Yamaha makes is up in other areas. Namely at the parts prices end.

It is tough to compete with free engines if you are Merc and others who are not going to cheapen there engine's to compete. I think Yamaha was banking on that a little, too. Like the auto industry trying to compete with asian cars. Not going to happen. :nono:


Wow. first of all... Yamaha is not and have never been the cheapest thing on the block. You must be referring to SUZUKI and ETEC who will pull their pants down and bend over for ANY OEM that will pay them any attention. Do you really think companies like Grady White, Regulator, Pursuit, etc chose to be exclusive b/c it's the CHEAPEST?!? Come on.. nothing about those boats are cheap. That's not their market. You want CHEAP?? Look at a SEA FOX / SUZUKI relationship.

Stupid comment.

his statement didnot indicate Yamaha built a cheap product but stated what is fact. Yamaha sells their engines cheaper to the OEM's than anyone else if they sign their agrement. Most of the OEM's have a contract with Yamaha that states that they (the OEM) must buy at least 95 % of their engines from Yamaha to be guaranteed engines & recieve their large discount.
as we all know over the years Yamaha has been one of the most expensive brands in the RETAIL market but they sell cheaper than anyone to the OEMS.


I'm well aware of all that.. but that's no different than any other engine manufacturer. Everyone knows... that all engine OEM pricing is a larger discount than their dealer pricing.

hey rollo,

go do yourself (to be PC).

Damn, how did alot of people losing their jobs and alot of people losing a great boat line become a Yamaha vs.Mercury???

ohilovewater - 5/16/2008 11:52 AM

SCAngler - 5/15/2008 2:15 PM

ohilovewater - 5/15/2008 10:11 PM

timebandit - 5/14/2008 8:21 AM

The whole Yamaha thing was about volume discounts in many cases. As well as the demise of OMC. They are a lot cheaper than anyone else. As far as the boat builders are concerned that is all they need to see. They choose the lowest price. What gets me is the way Yamaha makes is up in other areas. Namely at the parts prices end.

It is tough to compete with free engines if you are Merc and others who are not going to cheapen there engine's to compete. I think Yamaha was banking on that a little, too. Like the auto industry trying to compete with asian cars. Not going to happen. :nono:


Wow. first of all... Yamaha is not and have never been the cheapest thing on the block. You must be referring to SUZUKI and ETEC who will pull their pants down and bend over for ANY OEM that will pay them any attention. Do you really think companies like Grady White, Regulator, Pursuit, etc chose to be exclusive b/c it's the CHEAPEST?!? Come on.. nothing about those boats are cheap. That's not their market. You want CHEAP?? Look at a SEA FOX / SUZUKI relationship.

Stupid comment.

his statement didnot indicate Yamaha built a cheap product but stated what is fact. Yamaha sells their engines cheaper to the OEM's than anyone else if they sign their agrement. Most of the OEM's have a contract with Yamaha that states that they (the OEM) must buy at least 95 % of their engines from Yamaha to be guaranteed engines & recieve their large discount.
as we all know over the years Yamaha has been one of the most expensive brands in the RETAIL market but they sell cheaper than anyone to the OEMS.


I'm well aware of all that.. but that's no different than any other engine manufacturer. Everyone knows... that all engine OEM pricing is a larger discount than their dealer pricing.
True , but Yamaha is the worst offender this way. The end user of there product is really getting the green wenie.

timebandit - 5/16/2008 7:50 PM......................... True , but Yamaha is the worst offender this way. The end user of there product is really getting the green wenie.

Offender??? What offenseare youtalking about?

You're just P.O.'d that the ONLY way Merc could get an exclusive deal is to buy the company!

I just bought a new Scout and I don't feel like I got the "green weenie" because they bought the motor for less than a dealer or I could have. They should pay less, because they are committing to a business relationship far greater than a one time retail sale or Joe Bob's marine that sells a dozen a year. This should also help them to make a profit. They are by the way, allowed to make a profit- after all they wouldn't be in business very long if they weren't making a profit.

This brings up a bigger point- do you think Brunswick was/is paying themselves the same for an outboard as an independent builder would be paying? I doubt it. When you "double dip" by building the motor and the boat, you inherently will piss off some other boat builders that will now no longer mount your motors. After all, why should the independent have to pay more for the same power?

I considered Whaler when I bought my boat. I didn't buy because I didn't want a Merc. I also passed buying my Scout from my "local" dealer because he orders them without power and then rigs them himself with Honda's. I don't have a problem with either brand, but I wanted the Yamaha. I would have also passed on the Scout if they powered with something else. That's how powerful the motor element of a boat is. If a company doesn't offer what a buyer is looking for, they will move on no matter what brand it is.

Agree 100% with 242AB. Buy the motor you like from the dealer you trust. Having owned a zuke, opti, been on a boat with a Yamaha and now the VERY PROUD owner of a Verado I think all motors made today are very good. Don't think you can go wrong with any of them. I guess if there is any question it is who has the best support system in place? My dealer who sells them all but Honda told me Zuke #3, Yamaha #2, and the winner Mercury. And by the way, this question was asked before he knew which one I was thinking about.

Afishinado - 5/15/2008 8:09 PM



timebandit - 5/16/2008 7:50 PM......................... True , but Yamaha is the worst offender this way. The end user of there product is really getting the green wenie.

Offender??? What offense*are you*talking about?

*You're just P.O.'d that the ONLY way Merc could get an exclusive deal is to buy the company!

Agreed.

How smart is Brunswick and what do they think of the stockholders or the boating public? How many remember that a short time ago Brunswick tried to get a tariff on all Japanese outboards creating higher prices for the consumer. Brunswick dropped the Robalo line on a whim. Brunswick bought boat companies and paid millions of stockholders dollars for them only to close them down. A couple of years ago Brunswick stock was 48 and the last time I checked it was in the low teens. How smart are these guys? Who is running this three ring circus of clowns and misfits? Any that can dispute these facts please post what you know and refrain from the name calling and insults like a little child.

timebandit - 5/16/2008 6:50 PM True , but Yamaha is the worst offender this way. The end user of there product is really getting the green wenie.

In all your infinite wisdom........why don't you explain this comment to us. As in "worst offender".



What the heck is a green wenie? Timebandit.......I think you been sniffin to much Mercury gasket maker........that stuff is nasty!

Andy

And to add something constructive to the thread.........I am a Merc dealer as well, and I do not understand the thought process behind buying up a bunch of boat companies for millions of dollars,and 3 years later just closing the doors on them.

But hey.......what do I know. ../images/emoticons/confused.gif

Andy

ROLLO TOMASI - 5/17/2008 9:29 AM

How smart is Brunswick and what do they think of the stockholders or the boating public? How many remember that a short time ago Brunswick tried to get a tariff on all Japanese outboards creating higher prices for the consumer. Brunswick dropped the Robalo line on a whim. Brunswick bought boat companies and paid millions of stockholders dollars for them only to close them down. A couple of years ago Brunswick stock was 48 and the last time I checked it was in the low teens. How smart are these guys? Who is running this three ring circus of clowns and misfits? Any that can dispute these facts please post what you know and refrain from the name calling and insults like a little child.


I hear Sea Fox is doing great...what do you think of Sea Fox? :grin:

Sleazy, very low end avenue for Suzuki to sell engines. Do a search.. very poor quality.

SIM - 5/17/2008 9:40 AM



And to add something constructive to the thread.........I am a Merc dealer as well, and I do not understand the thought process behind buying up a bunch of boat companies for millions of dollars,*and 3 years later just closing the doors on them.*

But hey.......what do I know. ../images/emoticons/confused.gif

Andy

Yeah, I don't get that either. I agree that Brunswick is digging their own grave. And the whole Verado thing that will never sell enough copies to pay the R&D. It is also in the billions.
I just don't like what Yamaha did with the retail vs. OEM prices when you need something for one. There has got to be a happy medium somewhere. I do not have any complaints with the HPDI's that I have, except the high cost. Again, they are not cheap engines, the OEM's just get them for cheap. It works for them.
Merc will never be in a position to make those kinds of deals. They spent too much and Verado R&D and buying up boat names only to throw them away in 2 years. Look, I have been a Merc man for my entire life and it has never really been "the thing" to have. And that if fine with me. It is never going to be if Brunswick does not get their act together. Somebody up there long ago thought that the super quiet and super fast model was going to do the trick. I have news for them. :nono: Again, look at what it cost them to invent the damn thing. ;? And then it does not work without $500 worth of batteries. :bashhh: In other words, I do not like any of the choices anymore.

kloweree - 5/17/2008 10:27 AM

ROLLO TOMASI - 5/17/2008 9:29 AM

How smart is Brunswick and what do they think of the stockholders or the boating public? How many remember that a short time ago Brunswick tried to get a tariff on all Japanese outboards creating higher prices for the consumer. Brunswick dropped the Robalo line on a whim. Brunswick bought boat companies and paid millions of stockholders dollars for them only to close them down. A couple of years ago Brunswick stock was 48 and the last time I checked it was in the low teens. How smart are these guys? Who is running this three ring circus of clowns and misfits? Any that can dispute these facts please post what you know and refrain from the name calling and insults like a little child.


I hear Sea Fox is doing great...what do you think of Sea Fox? :grin:



Before this thing is over there will be dead boat companies across the country, maybe even sea Fox.

I hope trojan boats won't be next ;? they won't anser the phone .

Sea Pro, Sea Boss, Palmetto and Laguna - never heard of them. Why should I be upset about a few boat builders being cannibalized in an extremely soft market? Dealers are still here to service the boats ....... Brunswick is backing all warranties.......the boating lines can be restarted in a better economic environment ...... your boat is not impacted one bit by this announcement........what am I missing?

242AB - 5/17/2008 5:06 PM

I just bought a new Scout and I don't feel like I got the "green weenie" because they bought the motor for less than a dealer or I could have. They should pay less, because they are committing to a business relationship far greater than a one time retail sale or Joe Bob's marine that sells a dozen a year. This should also help them to make a profit. They are by the way, allowed to make a profit- after all they wouldn't be in business very long if they weren't making a profit.

This brings up a bigger point- do you think Brunswick was/is paying themselves the same for an outboard as an independent builder would be paying? I doubt it. When you "double dip" by building the motor and the boat, you inherently will piss off some other boat builders that will now no longer mount your motors. After all, why should the independent have to pay more for the same power?

I considered Whaler when I bought my boat. I didn't buy because I didn't want a Merc. I also passed buying my Scout from my "local" dealer because he orders them without power and then rigs them himself with Honda's. I don't have a problem with either brand, but I wanted the Yamaha. I would have also passed on the Scout if they powered with something else. That's how powerful the motor element of a boat is. If a company doesn't offer what a buyer is looking for, they will move on no matter what brand it is.


This is exactly why I didn't buy a second Sea Pro.....

timebandit - 5/17/2008 6:18 PM

SIM - 5/17/2008 9:40 AM



And to add something constructive to the thread.........I am a Merc dealer as well, and I do not understand the thought process behind buying up a bunch of boat companies for millions of dollars,*and 3 years later just closing the doors on them.*

But hey.......what do I know. ../images/emoticons/confused.gif

Andy

Yeah, I don't get that either. I agree that Brunswick is digging their own grave. And the whole Verado thing that will never sell enough copies to pay the R&D. It is also in the billions.
I just don't like what Yamaha did with the retail vs. OEM prices when you need something for one. There has got to be a happy medium somewhere. I do not have any complaints with the HPDI's that I have, except the high cost. Again, they are not cheap engines, the OEM's just get them for cheap. It works for them.
Merc will never be in a position to make those kinds of deals. They spent too much and Verado R&D and buying up boat names only to throw them away in 2 years. Look, I have been a Merc man for my entire life and it has never really been "the thing" to have. And that if fine with me. It is never going to be if Brunswick does not get their act together. Somebody up there long ago thought that the super quiet and super fast model was going to do the trick. I have news for them. :nono: Again, look at what it cost them to invent the damn thing. ;? And then it does not work without $500 worth of batteries. :bashhh: In other words, I do not like any of the choices anymore.

Every outboard company sells to OEMs for less than dealers. Including Mercury.