Dockside Chat - Mercury cuts 50 salaried positions

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Myott
04-03-2008, 09:02 AM
By Brett Rowland
for The Northwestern

Mercury Marine laid off 50 salaried employees Wednesday as the boating industry continues to founder.

That’s about a 3 percent reduction in the company’s local work force, said Mercury spokesperson Steve Fleming.

“These are difficult decisions, but necessary decisions,” said Dennis Rooney, vice president of human resources at Mercury.

Rooney said the cuts were made in response to sinking demand for boats and engines. The job cuts are permanent and came from a wide range of positions, including office workers, managers and directors, he said.

Mercury officials have said from the beginning of the year that 2008 would be a tough year for the company and the industry. More jobs could be cut if the economy continues to slump.

“Now, as always, Mercury Marine constantly monitors the state of the marine industry and the demand for product, and reacts accordingly,” Fleming said in an interview Wednesday. “Therefore, additional reductions in work force are a possibility should the market continue to weaken or if we see a more effective way to address market opportunities. Staffing adjustments are a reality for all businesses, and Mercury is no exception.”

The cuts did not affect Mercury’s 1,600-member union, the organization’s president Mark Zillges said. Union members have suspended contract negotiations with Mercury Marine and plan to meet April 12 to vote on strike authorization, a precursor to a walkout. The union’s three-year contract is set to expire June 21.

A number of employees also volunteered to retire early, and other vacant positions will not be filled. The majority of the cuts came from Fond du Lac, but workers in Florida and Oklahoma also lost jobs, Fleming said.

Fleming said “generous” severance pay would be given to employees who lost jobs. Rooney said other assistance, including a program that helps workers find other jobs, would be available.

Fleming also dumped more cold water on rumors of more drastic cutbacks.

“There are no plans to sell, shut down or move Mercury Marine,” he said.

The last time Mercury laid off salaried employees was in 2006.

There are other signs that the tide is running the wrong way for Mercury Marine’s parent company, Brunswick.

Brunswick announced plans last week to shut down production of Baja boats in Bucyrus, Ohio, by the end of May. Some 285 people will lose jobs when the plant closes, according to the company’s Web site. The shutdown came in advance of plans to sell the Baja to Fountain Powerboat Industries, Inc., of Washington, N.C.

Brunswick’s boat sales fell about 10 percent last year, according to a company press release.

Other Brunswick mandates have hit closer to home. The company decided not to replace Mercury Marine President Pat Mackey, who retired in February. And more recently, the Mercury jet and hangar at the Fond du Lac County Airport were put up for sale. Fleming said the decision was made after Brunswick evaluated its aircraft fleet and determined the “jet was not longer a cost-effective method of transportation.”

Worldwide, Mercury employs about 7,000 people.


First Light
04-03-2008, 10:33 AM
No big news as most all of the boat, engine, and marine accessory manufacturers are cutting staff.

Dsaltydog
04-03-2008, 11:22 AM
Sad state of our economy. Our dollar is worthless, housing debacle, and fuel costs.........going to get worse before better.


Special K III
04-03-2008, 11:22 AM
I hate Unions. Unions destroyed the Auto Industry. If Merc's 1,600 Union members strike,I'd shift manufacturing to North or South Carolina.

jobowker
04-03-2008, 11:25 AM
Unions had their place at one point in our history. Now they do more harm than good.

Brewhedd
04-03-2008, 02:00 PM
jobowker - 4/3/2008 11:25 AM

Unions had their place at one point in our history. Now they do more harm than good.

They had their place; like getting all of us vacations, sick days, decent wages, 401k's and most of the other benefits we enjoy. Many people died getting those benefits. I belonged to a Union shop and everytime I hear somebody complain about Unions I think of the unqualified idiots in management that were promoted into those positions due to the good 'ol boy system. I also think of the time wasted and profits lost due to management politics. Nobody ever mentions that, just how bad Unions are.

pastaman1234
04-03-2008, 02:14 PM
Brewhedd - 4/3/2008 2:00 PM jobowker - 4/3/2008 11:25 AM Unions had their place at one point in our history. Now they do more harm than good. They had their place; like getting all of us vacations, sick days, decent wages, 401k's and most of the other benefits we enjoy. Many people died getting those benefits. I belonged to a Union shop and everytime I hear somebody complain about Unions I think of the unqualified idiots in management that were promoted into those positions due to the good 'ol boy system. I also think of the time wasted and profits lost due to management politics. Nobody ever mentions that, just how bad Unions are.

I am sure some of what you say is true but i am also sure that unionstake the everyday common working man and turn him into alazy bum a soon as they learn how to play the system.

Door#3
04-03-2008, 07:12 PM
jobowker - 4/3/2008 11:25 AM

Unions had their place at one point in our history. Now they do more harm than good.

An overly simplistic statement. Unions were created as a hedge against greed driven exploitation by management. This is still an ideal that is worthwhile. Unfortunately, in many cases, the exploitation and greed can now be credited to union leadership. One has to wonder how the union leadership that represents the workers at Mercury Marine is "helping" the workers by suggesting workplace actions in the face of declining revenues and profits. Apparently they didn't take any economics courses in school.

Tireless
04-03-2008, 07:56 PM
This is not a big deal. Rational corporations always slaughter a few white collar tools before they slash the union ranks. Consider it a sacrificial offering to the masses.

Joe
04-03-2008, 08:00 PM
It's probably a big deal to the white collar tools who have been sacrificed for the masses.

You know what they say: it's a recession when your neighbor loses his job...its a depression when you lose yours.

bellsisland
04-03-2008, 08:13 PM
most people who bash mangement are the ones who never make it there? stop your bitching as an hourly employee work your way into management and make the changes you think would be good.

Brewhedd
04-04-2008, 04:13 AM
pastaman1234 - 4/3/2008 2:14 PM



Brewhedd - 4/3/2008 2:00 PM jobowker - 4/3/2008 11:25 AM Unions had their place at one point in our history. Now they do more harm than good. They had their place; like getting all of us vacations, sick days, decent wages, 401k's and most of the other benefits we enjoy. Many people died getting those benefits. I belonged to a Union shop and everytime I hear somebody complain about Unions I think of the unqualified idiots in management that were promoted into those positions due to the good 'ol boy system. I also think of the time wasted and profits lost due to management politics. Nobody ever mentions that, just how bad Unions are.

I am sure some of what you say is true but i am also sure that unions*take the everyday common working man and turn him into a*lazy bum a soon as they learn how to play the system. *

All of what I say is true. While it is also true some do play the system, it is a very small percentage. About the same percentage in management that are useless and unqualified in their jobs, put there by a buddy.

joenew61
04-04-2008, 09:22 AM
Didn't Mercury set up shop in China for production of the smaller outboards? It's a pretty safe bet that if demand and pricing don't turn around, they will move more operations there as well.

As far as the unions go, it's one thing to prevent exploitation, and another thing entirely to extort wages and benefits that make it impossible for a business to compete. In game theory, that's what is known as a lose-lose, and eventually the jobs will just go elsewhere.

Smitty777
04-04-2008, 12:39 PM
Special K III - 4/3/2008 2:22 PM

I hate Unions.* Unions destroyed the Auto Industry.* If Merc's 1,600 Union members strike,*I'd shift manufacturing to North or South Carolina.*

They KILLED the Airline industry as well!

Smitty777
04-04-2008, 12:45 PM
Brewhedd - 4/4/2008 7:13 AM

pastaman1234 - 4/3/2008 2:14 PM



Brewhedd - 4/3/2008 2:00 PM jobowker - 4/3/2008 11:25 AM Unions had their place at one point in our history. Now they do more harm than good. They had their place; like getting all of us vacations, sick days, decent wages, 401k's and most of the other benefits we enjoy. Many people died getting those benefits. I belonged to a Union shop and everytime I hear somebody complain about Unions I think of the unqualified idiots in management that were promoted into those positions due to the good 'ol boy system. I also think of the time wasted and profits lost due to management politics. Nobody ever mentions that, just how bad Unions are.

I am sure some of what you say is true but i am also sure that unions*take the everyday common working man and turn him into a*lazy bum a soon as they learn how to play the system. *

All of what I say is true. While it is also true some do play the system, it is a very small percentage. About the same percentage in management that are useless and unqualified in their jobs, put there by a buddy.

From my 28 years with the Airlines, it's a whole lot more than a "VERY SMALL PERCENTAGE" More like 50/50. Management has dummies too but we in Management take that risk by the fact we can be terminated at any time for anything without the Union to protect us. The Unions I have delt with were and are a JOKE!

Smitty777
04-04-2008, 02:31 PM
I REST MY CASE...


AFA Announces United Flight Attendants Elect Militant Leadership
Friday April 4, 5:24 pm ET


CHICAGO--(BUSINESS WIRE)--With an eye toward their critical upcoming contract negotiations, United Airlines flight attendant union leaders for the Association of Flight Attendants-CWA (AFA-CWA) this week elected a slate of officers with a reputation as tough and militant negotiators. The 14 AFA-CWA Local Council Presidents who form the Union’s United Master Executive Council (MEC) re-elected Greg Davidowitch as President; Linda Farrow as Vice President; and, Jeff Heisey as Secretary-Treasurer. Their bios are below:

Just1more
04-04-2008, 02:45 PM
50 people? Thats it? Hell, I use to lay that many off each month just to keep the others "in check", so to speak. And thats when things were GOOD! You start handing out "pink slips" and production REALLY picks up!

ubettcha13
04-04-2008, 03:17 PM
The unions will be great once the socialist take power just ask the USSR worked for them

Tireless
04-04-2008, 03:18 PM
Just1more - 4/4/2008 5:45 PM
You start handing out "pink slips" and production REALLY picks up!

No kidding! :grin:

Brewhedd
04-04-2008, 08:20 PM
Smitty777 - 4/4/2008 12:45 PM

Brewhedd - 4/4/2008 7:13 AM

pastaman1234 - 4/3/2008 2:14 PM



Brewhedd - 4/3/2008 2:00 PM jobowker - 4/3/2008 11:25 AM Unions had their place at one point in our history. Now they do more harm than good. They had their place; like getting all of us vacations, sick days, decent wages, 401k's and most of the other benefits we enjoy. Many people died getting those benefits. I belonged to a Union shop and everytime I hear somebody complain about Unions I think of the unqualified idiots in management that were promoted into those positions due to the good 'ol boy system. I also think of the time wasted and profits lost due to management politics. Nobody ever mentions that, just how bad Unions are.

I am sure some of what you say is true but i am also sure that unions*take the everyday common working man and turn him into a*lazy bum a soon as they learn how to play the system. *

All of what I say is true. While it is also true some do play the system, it is a very small percentage. About the same percentage in management that are useless and unqualified in their jobs, put there by a buddy.

From my 28 years with the Airlines, it's a whole lot more than a "VERY SMALL PERCENTAGE" More like 50/50. Management has dummies too but we in Management take that risk by the fact we can be terminated at any time for anything without the Union to protect us. The Unions I have delt with were and are a JOKE!

If you had 50-50 then you had some very inept management, can't blame that on the Union. You had dummies in Mngmnt but you take that risk because you have nobody to defend you? That statement makes NO SENSE at all. The Union I belonged to had it's faults, but I would rather have one than not. The management I dealt with was a JOKE, there inability to stop pizzing money away (until it was too late) caused a plant closure. Don't worry though, since the American workers have to compete with labor in a communist country that pays wages of 75 years ago, have no safety regulations, no workers rights and no environmental controls it won't be long before all the jobs are gone.

Brewhedd
04-04-2008, 08:21 PM
ubettcha13 - 4/4/2008 3:17 PM

The unions will be great once the socialist take power just ask the USSR worked for them

Yeah we are in such great economic shape now after 7 years of fascist rule aren't we? :grin:

pastaman1234
04-04-2008, 09:34 PM
Brewhedd - 4/4/2008 8:20 PM Smitty777 - 4/4/2008 12:45 PM Brewhedd - 4/4/2008 7:13 AM pastaman1234 - 4/3/2008 2:14 PM

Brewhedd - 4/3/2008 2:00 PM jobowker - 4/3/2008 11:25 AM Unions had their place at one point in our history. Now they do more harm than good. They had their place; like getting all of us vacations, sick days, decent wages, 401k's and most of the other benefits we enjoy. Many people died getting those benefits. I belonged to a Union shop and everytime I hear somebody complain about Unions I think of the unqualified idiots in management that were promoted into those positions due to the good 'ol boy system. I also think of the time wasted and profits lost due to management politics. Nobody ever mentions that, just how bad Unions are.

I am sure some of what you say is true but i am also sure that unionstake the everyday common working man and turn him into alazy bum a soon as they learn how to play the system.

All of what I say is true. While it is also true some do play the system, it is a very small percentage. About the same percentage in management that are useless and unqualified in their jobs, put there by a buddy. From my 28 years with the Airlines, it's a whole lot more than a "VERY SMALL PERCENTAGE" More like 50/50. Management has dummies too but we in Management take that risk by the fact we can be terminated at any time for anything without the Union to protect us. The Unions I have delt with were and are a JOKE! If you had 50-50 then you had some very inept management, can't blame that on the Union. You had dummies in Mngmnt but you take that risk because you have nobody to defend you? That statement makes NO SENSE at all. The Union I belonged to had it's faults, but I would rather have one than not. The management I dealt with was a JOKE, there inability to stop pizzing money away (until it was too late) caused a plant closure. Don't worry though, since the American workers have to compete with labor in a communist country that pays wages of 75 years ago, have no safety regulations, no workers rights and no environmental controls it won't be long before all the jobs are gone.

Why cant you blame the union? Its too difficult to terminate a union employee and they know it and take advantage! I had a brief stint in a union once and a fellow employee got caught red handed steeling $1500 worth of electronics. Managment fired him on the spot with the goods in his hand.....6 months later he had his job back with back pay for the 6 months of missedwork. What a joke! Teachers union?? Ten yer? biggest joke of them all. Lets keep a teacher thathorrible just because he/she is in a union.......great idea! Bunch of lazy bums that dont know what real work is. People that watch the clock and doas little as possible all day long.

Brewhedd
04-05-2008, 08:56 AM
pastaman1234 - 4/4/2008 9:34 PM

Brewhedd - 4/4/2008 8:20 PM Smitty777 - 4/4/2008 12:45 PM Brewhedd - 4/4/2008 7:13 AM pastaman1234 - 4/3/2008 2:14 PM

Brewhedd - 4/3/2008 2:00 PM jobowker - 4/3/2008 11:25 AM Unions had their place at one point in our history. Now they do more harm than good. They had their place; like getting all of us vacations, sick days, decent wages, 401k's and most of the other benefits we enjoy. Many people died getting those benefits. I belonged to a Union shop and everytime I hear somebody complain about Unions I think of the unqualified idiots in management that were promoted into those positions due to the good 'ol boy system. I also think of the time wasted and profits lost due to management politics. Nobody ever mentions that, just how bad Unions are.

I am sure some of what you say is true but i am also sure that unions*take the everyday common working man and turn him into a*lazy bum a soon as they learn how to play the system. *

All of what I say is true. While it is also true some do play the system, it is a very small percentage. About the same percentage in management that are useless and unqualified in their jobs, put there by a buddy. From my 28 years with the Airlines, it's a whole lot more than a "VERY SMALL PERCENTAGE" More like 50/50. Management has dummies too but we in Management take that risk by the fact we can be terminated at any time for anything without the Union to protect us. The Unions I have delt with were and are a JOKE! If you had 50-50 then you had some very inept management, can't blame that on the Union. You had dummies in Mngmnt but you take that risk because you have nobody to defend you? That statement makes NO SENSE at all. The Union I belonged to had it's faults, but I would rather have one than not. The management I dealt with was a JOKE, there inability to stop pizzing money away (until it was too late) caused a plant closure. Don't worry though, since the American workers have to compete with labor in a communist country that pays wages of 75 years ago, have no safety regulations, no workers rights and no environmental controls it won't be long before all the jobs are gone.

Why cant you blame the union? Its too difficult to terminate a union employee and they know it and take advantage! I had a brief stint in a union once and a fellow employee got caught red handed steeling $1500 worth of electronics. Managment fired him on the spot with the goods in his hand*.....6 months later he had his job back with back pay for the 6 months of missed*work. What a joke! Teachers union?? Ten yer? biggest joke of them all. Lets keep a teacher that*horrible just because he/she is in a union.......great idea! Bunch of lazy bums that dont know what real work is. People that watch the clock and do*as little as possible all day long. **

Employees aren't "too hard" to terminate, I saw plenty terminated. What it takes is for management to have their ducks in a row, sometime they did, sometimed they didn't. I have also seen management allow employees to come back to work just to make the Union look bad, oh yeah. Somebody brought back to work with backpay means a srew up by the company, maybe they needed someone competent to present their case at the arbitration. I saw management screw up about 50% of the time, usually due to them not following their own policies and procedures. As I said some play the system, but in proportion just as many do in management.

By the way it's "tenure" not "ten yer".

pastaman1234
04-05-2008, 01:28 PM
Brewhedd - 4/5/2008 8:56 AM pastaman1234 - 4/4/2008 9:34 PM Brewhedd - 4/4/2008 8:20 PM Smitty777 - 4/4/2008 12:45 PM Brewhedd - 4/4/2008 7:13 AM pastaman1234 - 4/3/2008 2:14 PM

Brewhedd - 4/3/2008 2:00 PM jobowker - 4/3/2008 11:25 AM Unions had their place at one point in our history. Now they do more harm than good. They had their place; like getting all of us vacations, sick days, decent wages, 401k's and most of the other benefits we enjoy. Many people died getting those benefits. I belonged to a Union shop and everytime I hear somebody complain about Unions I think of the unqualified idiots in management that were promoted into those positions due to the good 'ol boy system. I also think of the time wasted and profits lost due to management politics. Nobody ever mentions that, just how bad Unions are.

I am sure some of what you say is true but i am also sure that unionstake the everyday common working man and turn him into alazy bum a soon as they learn how to play the system.

All of what I say is true. While it is also true some do play the system, it is a very small percentage. About the same percentage in management that are useless and unqualified in their jobs, put there by a buddy. From my 28 years with the Airlines, it's a whole lot more than a "VERY SMALL PERCENTAGE" More like 50/50. Management has dummies too but we in Management take that risk by the fact we can be terminated at any time for anything without the Union to protect us. The Unions I have delt with were and are a JOKE! If you had 50-50 then you had some very inept management, can't blame that on the Union. You had dummies in Mngmnt but you take that risk because you have nobody to defend you? That statement makes NO SENSE at all. The Union I belonged to had it's faults, but I would rather have one than not. The management I dealt with was a JOKE, there inability to stop pizzing money away (until it was too late) caused a plant closure. Don't worry though, since the American workers have to compete with labor in a communist country that pays wages of 75 years ago, have no safety regulations, no workers rights and no environmental controls it won't be long before all the jobs are gone.

Why cant you blame the union? Its too difficult to terminate a union employee and they know it and take advantage! I had a brief stint in a union once and a fellow employee got caught red handed steeling $1500 worth of electronics. Managment fired him on the spot with the goods in his hand.....6 months later he had his job back with back pay for the 6 months of missedwork. What a joke! Teachers union?? Ten yer? biggest joke of them all. Lets keep a teacher thathorrible just because he/she is in a union.......great idea! Bunch of lazy bums that dont know what real work is. People that watch the clock and doas little as possible all day long.

Employees aren't "too hard" to terminate, I saw plenty terminated. What it takes is for management to have their ducks in a row, sometime they did, sometimed they didn't. I have also seen management allow employees to come back to work just to make the Union look bad, oh yeah. Somebody brought back to work with backpay means a srew up by the company, maybe they needed someone competent to present their case at the arbitration. I saw management screw up about 50% of the time, usually due to them not following their own policies and procedures. As I said some play the system, but in proportion just as many do in management. By the way it's "tenure" not "ten yer".

Getting caught point blank on camera (say cheese) with the goods in your hand!!! Screw what up?? Nothing to screw up......he did it!In a court of law you are guilty.........good bye!In a union......they take you back......rediculous. I am not saying all unions and their empoyess are bad but most are. Thats my opinion!

Brewhedd
04-05-2008, 02:42 PM
pastaman1234 - 4/5/2008 1:28 PM

Brewhedd - 4/5/2008 8:56 AM pastaman1234 - 4/4/2008 9:34 PM Brewhedd - 4/4/2008 8:20 PM Smitty777 - 4/4/2008 12:45 PM Brewhedd - 4/4/2008 7:13 AM pastaman1234 - 4/3/2008 2:14 PM

Brewhedd - 4/3/2008 2:00 PM jobowker - 4/3/2008 11:25 AM Unions had their place at one point in our history. Now they do more harm than good. They had their place; like getting all of us vacations, sick days, decent wages, 401k's and most of the other benefits we enjoy. Many people died getting those benefits. I belonged to a Union shop and everytime I hear somebody complain about Unions I think of the unqualified idiots in management that were promoted into those positions due to the good 'ol boy system. I also think of the time wasted and profits lost due to management politics. Nobody ever mentions that, just how bad Unions are.

I am sure some of what you say is true but i am also sure that unions*take the everyday common working man and turn him into a*lazy bum a soon as they learn how to play the system. *

All of what I say is true. While it is also true some do play the system, it is a very small percentage. About the same percentage in management that are useless and unqualified in their jobs, put there by a buddy. From my 28 years with the Airlines, it's a whole lot more than a "VERY SMALL PERCENTAGE" More like 50/50. Management has dummies too but we in Management take that risk by the fact we can be terminated at any time for anything without the Union to protect us. The Unions I have delt with were and are a JOKE! If you had 50-50 then you had some very inept management, can't blame that on the Union. You had dummies in Mngmnt but you take that risk because you have nobody to defend you? That statement makes NO SENSE at all. The Union I belonged to had it's faults, but I would rather have one than not. The management I dealt with was a JOKE, there inability to stop pizzing money away (until it was too late) caused a plant closure. Don't worry though, since the American workers have to compete with labor in a communist country that pays wages of 75 years ago, have no safety regulations, no workers rights and no environmental controls it won't be long before all the jobs are gone.

Why cant you blame the union? Its too difficult to terminate a union employee and they know it and take advantage! I had a brief stint in a union once and a fellow employee got caught red handed steeling $1500 worth of electronics. Managment fired him on the spot with the goods in his hand*.....6 months later he had his job back with back pay for the 6 months of missed*work. What a joke! Teachers union?? Ten yer? biggest joke of them all. Lets keep a teacher that*horrible just because he/she is in a union.......great idea! Bunch of lazy bums that dont know what real work is. People that watch the clock and do*as little as possible all day long. **

Employees aren't "too hard" to terminate, I saw plenty terminated. What it takes is for management to have their ducks in a row, sometime they did, sometimed they didn't. I have also seen management allow employees to come back to work just to make the Union look bad, oh yeah. Somebody brought back to work with backpay means a srew up by the company, maybe they needed someone competent to present their case at the arbitration. I saw management screw up about 50% of the time, usually due to them not following their own policies and procedures. As I said some play the system, but in proportion just as many do in management. By the way it's "tenure" not "ten yer".

Getting caught point blank on camera (say cheese) with the goods in your hand!!! Screw what up?? Nothing to screw up......he did it!*In a court of law you are guilty.........good bye!*In a union......they take you back......rediculous. I am not saying all unions and their empoyess are bad but most are. Thats my opinion!

You are entitled to your opinion but your facts don't cut it. "In a Union they take you back"? LOL That statement proves to me you know absolutely nothing about Unions. The Union doesn't "take you back", there is an arbitration hearing where the facts are presented and a decision is made by the arbitrator as to whether the company acted appropriately. If the arbitrator decided against the company there was a legitimate reason. Sorry to burst your big "anti-Union" bubble but it's common today with the bad (and BS most of the time) press of the last 25 years.

Seacat FL
04-06-2008, 12:06 PM
“Now, as always, Mercury Marine constantly monitors the state of the marine industry and the demand for product, and reacts accordingly,” Fleming said in an interview Wednesday. “Therefore, additional reductions in work force are a possibility should the market continue to weaken or if we see a more effective way to address market opportunities. Staffing adjustments are a reality for all businesses, and Mercury is no exception.”

The cuts did not affect Mercury’s 1,600-member union, the organization’s president Mark Zillges said. Union members have suspended contract negotiations with Mercury Marine and plan to meet April 12 to vote on strike authorization, a precursor to a walkout. The union’s three-year contract is set to expire June 21.


What part of "additional reductions in work force are a possibility should the market continue to weaken" does the union not understand.

Perhaps they should strike for more boat & motor sales. ;?

pastaman1234
04-06-2008, 01:12 PM
Brewhedd - 4/6/2008 5:42 AM pastaman1234 - 4/5/2008 1:28 PM Brewhedd - 4/5/2008 8:56 AM pastaman1234 - 4/4/2008 9:34 PM Brewhedd - 4/4/2008 8:20 PM Smitty777 - 4/4/2008 12:45 PM Brewhedd - 4/4/2008 7:13 AM pastaman1234 - 4/3/2008 2:14 PM

Brewhedd - 4/3/2008 2:00 PM jobowker - 4/3/2008 11:25 AM Unions had their place at one point in our history. Now they do more harm than good. They had their place; like getting all of us vacations, sick days, decent wages, 401k's and most of the other benefits we enjoy. Many people died getting those benefits. I belonged to a Union shop and everytime I hear somebody complain about Unions I think of the unqualified idiots in management that were promoted into those positions due to the good 'ol boy system. I also think of the time wasted and profits lost due to management politics. Nobody ever mentions that, just how bad Unions are.

I am sure some of what you say is true but i am also sure that unionstake the everyday common working man and turn him into alazy bum a soon as they learn how to play the system.

All of what I say is true. While it is also true some do play the system, it is a very small percentage. About the same percentage in management that are useless and unqualified in their jobs, put there by a buddy. From my 28 years with the Airlines, it's a whole lot more than a "VERY SMALL PERCENTAGE" More like 50/50. Management has dummies too but we in Management take that risk by the fact we can be terminated at any time for anything without the Union to protect us. The Unions I have delt with were and are a JOKE! If you had 50-50 then you had some very inept management, can't blame that on the Union. You had dummies in Mngmnt but you take that risk because you have nobody to defend you? That statement makes NO SENSE at all. The Union I belonged to had it's faults, but I would rather have one than not. The management I dealt with was a JOKE, there inability to stop pizzing money away (until it was too late) caused a plant closure. Don't worry though, since the American workers have to compete with labor in a communist country that pays wages of 75 years ago, have no safety regulations, no workers rights and no environmental controls it won't be long before all the jobs are gone.

Why cant you blame the union? Its too difficult to terminate a union employee and they know it and take advantage! I had a brief stint in a union once and a fellow employee got caught red handed steeling $1500 worth of electronics. Managment fired him on the spot with the goods in his hand.....6 months later he had his job back with back pay for the 6 months of missedwork. What a joke! Teachers union?? Ten yer? biggest joke of them all. Lets keep a teacher thathorrible just because he/she is in a union.......great idea! Bunch of lazy bums that dont know what real work is. People that watch the clock and doas little as possible all day long.

Employees aren't "too hard" to terminate, I saw plenty terminated. What it takes is for management to have their ducks in a row, sometime they did, sometimed they didn't. I have also seen management allow employees to come back to work just to make the Union look bad, oh yeah. Somebody brought back to work with backpay means a srew up by the company, maybe they needed someone competent to present their case at the arbitration. I saw management screw up about 50% of the time, usually due to them not following their own policies and procedures. As I said some play the system, but in proportion just as many do in management. By the way it's "tenure" not "ten yer".

Getting caught point blank on camera (say cheese) with the goods in your hand!!! Screw what up?? Nothing to screw up......he did it!In a court of law you are guilty.........good bye!In a union......they take you back......rediculous. I am not saying all unions and their empoyess are bad but most are. Thats my opinion!

You are entitled to your opinion but your facts don't cut it. "In a Union they take you back"? LOL That statement proves to me you know absolutely nothing about Unions. The Union doesn't "take you back", there is an arbitration hearing where the facts are presented and a decision is made by the arbitrator as to whether the company acted appropriately. If the arbitrator decided against the company there was a legitimate reason. Sorry to burst your big "anti-Union" bubble but it's common today with the bad (and BS most of the time) press of the last 25 years.

Struck a nerve huh? lol Dont be an idiot.........They re-hired him after six months and gave him back pay. That was my point and the point is "THEY TOOK HIM BACK" Excuse me for not mentioning that an arbritrator made the decision. Who cares its not relevant to understand that the vast majority or unions suck. Its an easy concept that you are trying to turn around, throw in meaningless processes to make yourself sound good......not working. You sound like obamalamadingdong. Unions are like grade school......managment are the teachers and the employees are the students that are always trying to skip class.

I have a friend that works for a freight company. He wore sneakers to work which is a big no no. That night he got hurt, his foot slipped through a roller and his knee stopped the weigh of his body. Well his knee and leg were fine but reaching up for support he tore his bicep away from the bone or ligament. He was out of work for four months and needed an operation.After it was all over they gave him 30k for his troubles plus full pay while he was out. Who was at fault? Managment for letting him work with sneakers? yup Who was more at fault? My friend? yup. He was a worker there for ten years and new all the rules but he wore sneakers reguardless just becaue he wanted to....lack of respect cost the company 30k becuase maybe the managment was too busy to notice he had sneakers on that particular day. Managers arent suppose to be baby sitters are they?My friendknows the rules just as well asthe managment does and shouldnt have been awardedcrap and should have docked for breaking the rules. When an employee has more power then their boss we have a problem!

Brewhedd
04-06-2008, 02:19 PM
pastaman1234 - 4/6/2008 1:12 PM

Brewhedd - 4/6/2008 5:42 AM [QUOTE]pastaman1234 - 4/5/2008 1:28 PM You are entitled to your opinion but your facts don't cut it. "In a Union they take you back"? LOL That statement proves to me you know absolutely nothing about Unions. The Union doesn't "take you back", there is an arbitration hearing where the facts are presented and a decision is made by the arbitrator as to whether the company acted appropriately. If the arbitrator decided against the company there was a legitimate reason. Sorry to burst your big "anti-Union" bubble but it's common today with the bad (and BS most of the time) press of the last 25 years.

Struck a nerve huh? lol Dont be an idiot.........They re-hired him after six months and gave him back pay. That was my point and the point is "THEY TOOK HIM BACK" Excuse me for not mentioning that an arbritrator made the decision. Who cares its not relevant to understand that the vast majority or unions suck. Its an easy concept that you are trying to turn around, throw in meaningless processes to make yourself sound good......not working. You sound like obamalamadingdong. Unions are like grade school......managment are the teachers and the employees are the students that are always trying to skip class.

I really don't appreciate you calling me an idiot. When you say "THEY TOOK HIM BACK" I assume you mean the Union? The Union doesn't "take someone back" they have no choice in the matter. If an arbitrator decided in his favor then the Company screwed up somewhere, nothing new there.

The attitude of the employees toward the company is something management has to take credit for. If workers are respected and treated that way they will perform. What management doesn't understand is after they lie to and cheat their employees as well as promote their idiot unqualified buddies employees really don't give a shi# about their job.

Here's the bottom line: Nothing wrong with Unions, it forces management to do their job, sometimes they do sometimes they don't. Unions brought us all the benefits we enjoy today. Management has just as many srewups proportionately, only they are in positions that affect the survival of the company. I sat by and watched my plant close because management couldn't stop pizzing away money. They laid half of us off while they kept 95% of their positions because they just couldn't bring themseves to lay their buddies off. Well now there are 4000 people out of work due to moronic unqualified idiots in management. So go cry to someone else about the big bad Unions and you can save your insults for someone else also.

pastaman1234
04-06-2008, 03:10 PM
Brewhedd - 4/7/2008 5:19 AM pastaman1234 - 4/6/2008 1:12 PM Brewhedd - 4/6/2008 5:42 AM [QUOTE]pastaman1234 - 4/5/2008 1:28 PM You are entitled to your opinion but your facts don't cut it. "In a Union they take you back"? LOL That statement proves to me you know absolutely nothing about Unions. The Union doesn't "take you back", there is an arbitration hearing where the facts are presented and a decision is made by the arbitrator as to whether the company acted appropriately. If the arbitrator decided against the company there was a legitimate reason. Sorry to burst your big "anti-Union" bubble but it's common today with the bad (and BS most of the time) press of the last 25 years.



Struck a nerve huh? lol Dont be an idiot.........They re-hired him after six months and gave him back pay. That was my point and the point is "THEY TOOK HIM BACK" Excuse me for not mentioning that an arbritrator made the decision. Who cares its not relevant to understand that the vast majority or unions suck. Its an easy concept that you are trying to turn around, throw in meaningless processes to make yourself sound good......not working. You sound like obamalamadingdong. Unions are like grade school......managment are the teachers and the employees are the students that are always trying to skip class. I really don't appreciate you calling me an idiot. When you say "THEY TOOK HIM BACK" I assume you mean the Union? The Union doesn't "take someone back" they have no choice in the matter. If an arbitrator decided in his favor then the Company screwed up somewhere, nothing new there. The attitude of the employees toward the company is something management has to take credit for. If workers are respected and treated that way they will perform. What management doesn't understand is after they lie to and cheat their employees as well as promote their idiot unqualified buddies employees really don't give a shi# about their job. Here's the bottom line: Nothing wrong with Unions, it forces management to do their job, sometimes they do sometimes they don't. Unions brought us all the benefits we enjoy today. Management has just as many srewups proportionately, only they are in positions that affect the survival of the company. I sat by and watched my plant close because management couldn't stop pizzing away money. They laid half of us off while they kept 95% of their positions because they just couldn't bring themseves to lay their buddies off. Well now there are 4000 people out of work due to moronic unqualified idiots in management. So go cry to someone else about the big bad Unions and you can save your insults for someone else also.

Sorry for the comment. I tried to erase it but time had expired. You didnt pick on any of my undertones. Most of my friends and a few family member and myself have all beenpart of unions. Am i an expert? hardly but one doesnt need to be.

The $1500.00 dollars in stolen goods is a drop in the bucket but when other employees witness the return of an employee that committed a phelony and was rewarded for it contributes to others doing the same thing without any fear of prosecution or losing his job. Its not an isolated case, its rampant and happens all the time.

My friend who got the 30k? Glad it was him if anyone but that freight company didnt really lose the 30k...we did. They add their losses to their newly increased freight rates the next year, the retailer raises the prices to cover their cost and the buyerpays the difference. Its uncalled for.

Oh and the lazy tenured teacher? Forces hisstudent that didnt learn anything to take the easy way out and get a union job so he can mindlessly skate through life at a decent wage and benefits.

What ever happened to....if you dont do your job.......your fired!

Porkchunker
04-08-2008, 05:09 PM
Myott - 4/3/2008 10:02 AM
...The cuts did not affect Mercury’s 1,600-member union, the organization’s president Mark Zillges said. Union members have suspended contract negotiations with Mercury Marine and plan to meet April 12 to vote on strike authorization, a precursor to a walkout. The union’s three-year contract is set to expire June 21....


The funny part about this paragraph is that Brunswick is probably hoping for a 4-6 week strike as a way to cut costs and reduce inventory. Probably much cheaper than pink slips and the separation fees.

Stupid union may play right into management's plans with a strike.

Dave

aka

Porkchunker
04-08-2008, 05:17 PM
It is easier, cheaper, and legally less entangling to just shut a plant completely, and restart it in another country. That way the company can issue lots of pink slips and not be accused of singling out select under-performing employees. Solves the race, gender, and sexual orientation problems all in one fell swoop.

What is sad, is that the Unions would rather have a whole plant shut down and the work go overseas than work with management to retain good employees and dump the bad ones.

Dave

aka

joenew61
04-08-2008, 07:35 PM
Porkchunker - 4/8/2008 8:17 PM

It is easier, cheaper, and legally less entangling to just shut a plant completely, and restart it in another country. That way the company can issue lots of pink slips and not be accused of singling out select under-performing employees. Solves the race, gender, and sexual orientation problems all in one fell swoop.

What is sad, is that the Unions would rather have a whole plant shut down and the work go overseas than work with management to retain good employees and dump the bad ones.

Dave

aka



Exactly right - and this is precisely the issue with unions - they thrive on brinksmanship, which inevitably leads to work actions. At a certain union bargaining position, the only logical reaction by management is to cut their losses, move overseas and position themselves for sustainable cost control.

Labor is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it in a competitive free market. As long as there is no mass-collusion across an entire industry, everyone is better off in the long run without collective bargaining. The alternative is sloth and eventual offshoring.



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