The Boating Forum - HPDI 250's

1. Have they figured out this motor yet????
2. Can the updates help our our these motors doomed
3. No matter how many new powerheads are replaced??
4. Any happy owners out there???
5. Do the new oiling updates help???

Thanks Bogii

sounds like I dont want to buy one of these end of year specials

it's a crapshoot some have had real good luck and some not so much.for me not worth a 12k chance

2 sets of 250 hpdis and a current set of 300 hpdis. Absolutely love the motors!!! Yamaha has made these motors right with the updates and I would own another pair in a heartbeat!! 450 hrs on my current 300s and I expect they have a long life ahead of them...they haven't so much as hickuped on me once. I have talked to many happy owners who have very high hours and there motors are still running like the day they baught them. There are a few unhappy owners from some of the newer 250 hpdis before the updates...but if you buy a current updated pair...you are in good shape! Half the people on here have no clue what they are talking about but just kind of write the hear say floating around THT. I talked to a mechanic in North Carolina that has sold 120 250-300 hpdis with all the updates and he has had like 2 0r 3 come back with issues...2 0f the 3 that came back were a pair and it was the operators fault. Like any other motor...there could be some issues along the way...but now that yamaha has fixed this motor, it is as good or better than anything out there. Fast, efficient, reliable, and some serious torque! Burn very little oil I might add

Tommy,
I know very few people with the f225/f250s...two of the 6 people I know that have them had the fuel pump go out in the first 50 hrs. Does that make the yamaha 4 strokes a crapshoot?? ;?

While I do not own own one of these (I've got a Honda 225) I fish w/ a friend who has one. We have identical boats (late 80's 25 SeaVee) and he's had the updates done and that is one impressive motor! He's a light tackle guide that puts some hours on that engine and it doesn't miss a beat, and it screams compared to my BF225. He's got approx 300 hours on it w/ no issues.
Plus he got it for $9900 (from Ed's, of course),and has been lucky enough to find a Yammi mechanic that will work on a motor bought from Ed's. (Around my area, most Yammi mechanics either won't work on a motor bought from Ed's or they put you at the end of the line) Bottom line, with the updates and a qualified dealer to work on it, you should be fine-and you may get a good deal on it based on the initial issues that were so well documented and have put such a "black cloud" on these 250/300HPDI's

While I do not own own one of these (I've got a Honda 225) I fish w/ a friend who has one. We have identical boats (late 80's 25 SeaVee) and he's had the updates done and that is one impressive motor! He's a light tackle guide that puts some hours on that engine and it doesn't miss a beat, and it screams compared to my BF225. He's got approx 300 hours on it w/ no issues.
Plus he got it for $9900 (from Ed's, of course),and has been lucky enough to find a Yammi mechanic that will work on a motor bought from Ed's. (Around my area, most Yammi mechanics either won't work on a motor bought from Ed's or they put you at the end of the line) Bottom line, with the updates and a qualified dealer to work on it, you should be fine-and you may get a good deal on it based on the initial issues that were so well documented and have put such a "black cloud" on these 250/300HPDI's

the big block yam 250/300 resale sux..why? because they blew up..yeah now they're fixed but yam made alot of customers wait while they figured it out...so the word on the street is they blow up - do a search here..or better yet search motor prices on boattrader.com and look at boats with these big HPDI's and ones without....

and yes merc opti's suck too!.... 1999 thru 2002.....

Here's the way my mechanic explained it to me. Don't know if any of this is true or accurate and it's only his opinion anyway.

He said that for some stupid reason, (probably shifting in & out of gear)Yamaha designed these motors to idle with 2 of the cylinders dead. No fuel I think. Anyway, he said what happens is that the two cylinders that don't fire at idle, heat up slower than the other 4 cylinders. His theory is that some people launch their boat, leave the motor idling while they park their truck. Then they get in the boat and hammer it as soon as possible. 4 hot cylinders and 2 cold cylinders.....BOOM! His opinion is that most of the folks that have never had problems, don't do this. They idle, then "no wake it" out of the marina at higher RPM and then ease into the throttle(s) and up on plane. This gives the individual cylinder temps time to equalize. That's his theory, anyway. He said every blown-up one he's ever seen was the same 1 or 2 cylinders. Yup, you guessed it, the ones that don't fire at idle. My suggestion would be that if you do buy one of these things, you might want to keep this in mind. Just in case he's right!!

bigtuna - 12/19/2007 7:17 PM

Tommy,
I know very few people with the f225/f250s...two of the 6 people I know that have them had the fuel pump go out in the first 50 hrs. Does that make the yamaha 4 strokes a crapshoot?? ;?


i would much rather replace a fuel pump than a power head.have not heard much about fuel pump problems'.was it ethanol related?
well i know someone that has the 250 hpdi and has had 3 power heads replaced in less than 300 hours.i also know someone who has the 300 hpdi and had the lower unit replaced on it.so who knows either way i would much rather have a f250 when it comes down to resale than a hpdi plain and simple.this is my opinion.and yes all of them are a crapshoot thats why i have a warranty.

to the original OP do a search on the hpdi you will have lots of reading then decide for yourself.

I have a single 2003 250 hpdi on a 234 Cobia. It will drive this boat at 51 mph in the right conditions (calm water). It has 200 hours on it. I have never had any problems at all. Even after being stored for 6 months in the winter, it starts right up. It pulls like a freight train. I have had the oil pump updates done this fall. The Yamaha mechanic said that Yamaha has fixed the problems and this should run a long time. We will see. But, so far, I am more than happy with this engine.

I can confirm that it only idles on 4 cylinders because I have pull the plug wires one at a time to find out. This must be a function of the computer. I wonder if this could be changed to run on all six with a software update?

Paul

I would suspect it would not be difficult for mfgrs to engineer the dropout cylinders to be sequentially deactivated amongst all the cylinders so that potentially catastrophic temperature polarization would not occur. As a matter of sortasemi-fact, I thought there already are either O/B's or auto engines that work this way during the deactivation circumstances, no? Do the newer big HPDI's still just deactivate the same 2 cyls if that was the case with the early ones?

tommyr904 - 12/19/2007 5:57 PM

bigtuna - 12/19/2007 7:17 PM

Tommy,
I know very few people with the f225/f250s...two of the 6 people I know that have them had the fuel pump go out in the first 50 hrs. Does that make the yamaha 4 strokes a crapshoot?? ;?


i would much rather replace a fuel pump than a power head.have not heard much about fuel pump problems'.was it ethanol related?
well i know someone that has the 250 hpdi and has had 3 power heads replaced in less than 300 hours.i also know someone who has the 300 hpdi and had the lower unit replaced on it.so who knows either way i would much rather have a f250 when it comes down to resale than a hpdi plain and simple.this is my opinion.and yes all of them are a crapshoot thats why i have a warranty.

to the original OP do a search on the hpdi you will have lots of reading then decide for yourself.


It is just that you are always the first to jump on these big block hpdi threads...I don't understand it??? Every one of them you are the first one to bash ;? ;?
Accept the fact that it is the same as the optimaxes....started off rough but ended up being a good motor with many happy customers once fixed...can we agree on that? :thumbsup:

I have a 250 vmax on my 22 Pathfinder. Have had two powerheads replaced both times #2 and #4 cylinders. Also multiple problems like ground wires not tightened at the factory and many other issues. Yamaha has done all the work at their expense, I have spent at least 1500 hundred myself. You would think they would have recalled this motor and replaced it, for all the money spent on this pos. One more time and the Florida lemon law will be used.

I had a pair of 2003 250 hpdi's on a 26' Sailfish. I had a good Yamaha mechanic that performed the updates. I found that the engine had several fuel pumps, and several different filters on the boat. The main problematice filter was the one in the VST tank(PITA to service). It was very sensitive, and had to be cleaned or replaced every 20 hours or the engine would bog down. I then replaced the Yamaha fuel filters with racors, and this problem occured less, every 30-40 hours.

So, if you do get the hpdi's make sure your fuel tank is perfect. I limped in on one motor or idle 3-4 times b/c of these filters.

For no apparent reason, I lost a powerhead at 250 hours while cruising at 4000 rpm.
I sold the boat with abour 350 hours on it, and it is still running today. The owner lives in Diamond Head, MS. I saw him last summer, and he said that he has had no issues with them.

I will say that when mine were running, they were sweet, strong motors.

Once the updates have been done by a qualified mechanic, these motors live up to the Yamaha reputation. But, like Glen said, I'd hate to be trying to sell a boat with them on it........

propbender24 - 12/20/2007 4:28 AM

I had a pair of 2003 250 hpdi's on a 26' Sailfish. I had a good Yamaha mechanic that performed the updates. I found that the engine had several fuel pumps, and several different filters on the boat. The main problematice filter was the one in the VST tank(PITA to service). It was very sensitive, and had to be cleaned or replaced every 20 hours or the engine would bog down. I then replaced the Yamaha fuel filters with racors, and this problem occured less, every 30-40 hours.

So, if you do get the hpdi's make sure your fuel tank is perfect. I limped in on one motor or idle 3-4 times b/c of these filters.

For no apparent reason, I lost a powerhead at 250 hours while cruising at 4000 rpm.
I sold the boat with abour 350 hours on it, and it is still running today. The owner lives in Diamond Head, MS. I saw him last summer, and he said that he has had no issues with them.

I will say that when mine were running, they were sweet, strong motors.


Prop what can be done about the VST tank as no fuel tank is perfect
not in mexico anyways
any idea's guys
ok swap out the Yamaha fuel filters with racor step 1


Bogii

Prop B when you lost the power head was this after the updates???
do you remember what the updates were
cant seem to find all the latest specs on the updates from Yamaha.


Thanks again Bogii

Bogii, after taking the vst tank apart a couple of times. I decided to try all back flow the filters with an air compressor, and it worked. There is a tire stem like fitting on one end of the tank, and there is a plug on the other end. I would simply remove the plug, and blow the fitting with the compressor. This seemed to backflow and clear the micron filter. Another option would be simply removing the filter, but I never did it b/c it would void the warranty.

The racors helped a lot

I also think the 300's had less issues with powerhead failures, but it is probably due to the fact that they are using more oil, and burning a lot more fuel through the same block.

Bogii, I lost the powerhead after the updates. My updates were done at about 100 hours, and the powerhead failed at 250 hours. Cylinder #2 failed on the left hand motor.

I can not recall the exact updates, but I know there were several. My tech specialized in the hpdi's. A friend of mine had a CH 21 with a single 250 hpdi, and his dealer had no clue how to work on the hpdi's. He got in a fight with his dealer over it when he found out from my tech that his dealer had not done any of the updates. He was demanding they buy the engine back, but he ended up trading up to a 265 EW with f225's.

Bogii, we bought a slighty used 300 this summer (72 hours on it). It has an extended warranty which made it a lot easier for us to take the leap of faith. 36 hours on our boat and it's very strong so far. Updates were performed and our mechanic is a top notch yamaha guy who gave it a clean bill of health when he installed it. The rough idle on 4 of 6 cylinders is a bit annoying but as soon as you bump it into gear it smooths right out. At least it's working as designed.

It could take a crap on us tomorrow but if I had to do it again I would still pull the trigger. I'm not planning on sell our boat anytime soon so we were not worried about the resale factor with the hpdi.

propbender24 - 12/20/2007 12:37 PM



Bogii, I lost the powerhead after the updates. My updates were done at about 100 hours, and the powerhead failed at 250 hours. Cylinder #2 failed on the left hand motor.

I can not recall the exact updates, but I know there were several. My tech specialized in the hpdi's. A friend of mine had a CH 21 with a single 250 hpdi, and his dealer had no clue how to work on the hpdi's. He got in a fight with his dealer over it when he found out from my tech that his dealer had not done any of the updates. He was demanding they buy the engine back, but he ended up trading up to a 265 EW with f225's.

:)

Propbender

The updates you speak of, was one of them the oil pump replacement update? If not, I think that is the one that was supposed to have fixed the big block problem. Also, if you are having so many problems with the VST filter clogging up, I would say it was doing its job and you should look at your gas tank as being most of the problem. I don't know this for sure I am just speculating. [/QUOTE] :)
Paul


Paul

Paul, yes the oil pump update had been performed.

Yes, it was a new boat and we did have issues with some water in the tank caused by a faulty designed fuel vent, which allowed some water to come in the fuel tank in rough seas. We removed the water, and it was stopped by the fuel filters first. If any water ever made it through, the engines would alarm b/c the water sensor would go off. When this happened, I would drain the little plastic reservoir, and the alarm would stop.
However, even when all of the water was removed, we still had to clean or replace the micron(screen) filter in the vst tank. The racors were the biggest improvement.

The engines symptoms were not the same with the water issues as they were with the clogged filters.

You are correct in that the filter was doing its job, but the filter screen was so fine that unless you had perfectly distilled fuel., the filter would clog in about 30-40 hours of use.

I liked my hpdi's. I did have some issues, but once I figured them out it was no big deal other`than the powerhead.
If I could get a good deal on some that had a lot of warranty left than I would go for it.

bigtuna - 12/20/2007 6:11 AM

tommyr904 - 12/19/2007 5:57 PM

bigtuna - 12/19/2007 7:17 PM

Tommy,
I know very few people with the f225/f250s...two of the 6 people I know that have them had the fuel pump go out in the first 50 hrs. Does that make the yamaha 4 strokes a crapshoot?? ;?


i would much rather replace a fuel pump than a power head.have not heard much about fuel pump problems'.was it ethanol related?
well i know someone that has the 250 hpdi and has had 3 power heads replaced in less than 300 hours.i also know someone who has the 300 hpdi and had the lower unit replaced on it.so who knows either way i would much rather have a f250 when it comes down to resale than a hpdi plain and simple.this is my opinion.and yes all of them are a crapshoot thats why i have a warranty.

to the original OP do a search on the hpdi you will have lots of reading then decide for yourself.


It is just that you are always the first to jump on these big block hpdi threads...I don't understand it??? Every one of them you are the first one to bash ;? ;?
Accept the fact that it is the same as the optimaxes....started off rough but ended up being a good motor with many happy customers once fixed...can we agree on that? :thumbsup:




i don't think i was bashing at all.the 250 hpdi was a vary problematic motor.as was the early 225 opti that has left them with a black eye for some.i have some time on a parker with twinn 250 hpdi's and his luck has been terrible with them.and as i said some people like you have had great service out of them.you can't argue that they have been a problem motor from day one and is a good reason why they are no longer made and the resale on them is not all that great.agian i was not bashing at all.i have three yamaha's and have had great service from them.


and yes if you have a good one then you have a great motor :thumbsup:

Agreed :thumbsup:

Back-in-Black - 12/19/2007 8:20 PM

Here's the way my mechanic explained it to me. Don't know if any of this is true or accurate and it's only his opinion anyway.

He said that for some stupid reason, (probably shifting in & out of gear)Yamaha designed these motors to idle with 2 of the cylinders dead. No fuel I think. Anyway, he said what happens is that the two cylinders that don't fire at idle, heat up slower than the other 4 cylinders. His theory is that some people launch their boat, leave the motor idling while they park their truck. Then they get in the boat and hammer it as soon as possible. 4 hot cylinders and 2 cold cylinders.....BOOM! His opinion is that most of the folks that have never had problems, don't do this. They idle, then "no wake it" out of the marina at higher RPM and then ease into the throttle(s) and up on plane. This gives the individual cylinder temps time to equalize. That's his theory, anyway. He said every blown-up one he's ever seen was the same 1 or 2 cylinders. Yup, you guessed it, the ones that don't fire at idle. My suggestion would be that if you do buy one of these things, you might want to keep this in mind. Just in case he's right!!

As I said, this motor does idle on 4 cylinders because I have removed the plug wires one at a time at idle on number 2 and 4. All other plugs affect the idle (slow it down) except on these two (2 and 4) there is no effect on the idle when their plug wires are pulled. At first, I thought that I had a problem until a mechanic told me that Yamaha designed the engine not to fire on 2 and 4 at idle. If this is part of the cause of engine failure, would it not be just a simple software fix on Yamaha's part to allow these two cylinders to fire at idle. Are there any trained Yamaha people out there that might have an answer. Yamaha mechanics' training courses must have discussed this issue. Just wondering.

Paul

I have an '05 250 HPDI bought new with all the updates and have since put 400hrs. on the engine. Not a single problem with the motor and i have the utmost confidence in it. I run Ring-Free, Yamalube, and it gets service every 100hrs. from the mechanic who sold it to me and has worked on both my Yammies since '95. I have yet to have the oil pump update performed but will do that soon, only thing I've had replaced was the HPDI filter at 300hrs. as part of regular scheduled maintenance. We went thru the time and effort of breaking in the motor and running it regularly. It's been an awesome motor, pushes my Mako 211 to 49mph @ 5500RPM. Great motor IMHO.

Most outboards (large ones) drop several cylinders at idle by design to go easy on the lower unit, been doing that for about 20 years now.

The only reason Yamaha dropped the big block HPDI in 25" shafts and everything but the 200 is they want you 4 stroke brainwashed. They want you to spend more money at your Yamaha dealer on Yamaha parts. End of story. When they come up with a 200 4 stroke in a competitive weight (like the F150) the 200 HPDI will be gone too. The only ones you will se will be 20" shaft motors trying to keep up with the Opti's and Etecs on the bass boats.
I have been a Yamaha guy since 1986, and I've had a bunch of them, every one was good. The most important thing is I have relationships with Yamaha dealers that are more important to me than what motor I put on my boats. If it weren't for those relationships my next motor would be white, if I went 4 stroke it would be black, and not a Suzy.

Thanks for the come backs guys lot's of good info to go over

Happy Hollidays Bogii

I have a 2003 250 HPDI and here is a list of technical service bulletin (TSB) updates that have been performed:

1. TSB 090SC - ECM
2. TSB 090SD - Ignition Coil Set, spark plugs & coil wires
3. TSB 090SJ - Oil Linkage arm, Oil Pump kit
4. TSB 090SR - Wiring harness repositioning
5. TSB 090UB - Oil Pump

Does anyone have the list of updates that should be performed on the Z300 HPDI's? My engine mfg. date is 11/04. I would appreciate any direction on this subject.

Thanks!!!!!

Have a 2003 HS 2400 Vector with a 2003 250 HPDI: 750 hours/no problems. Run yamalube, ring free, 10 micron filter and have never had a problem with the VST filter. I change plugs and lower gear lube, dealer does remaining maintenance. Interesting info on inadequate block warmup regarding the deactivated cylinders. We have 1 mile of no-wake zone to go through from our dock before we can throttle up so ours has never been above 1000-1200 rpm without a 10-15 minute warmup. There might be something to that theory!

What kind of life do you guys get out of a set of plugs?

Since I switched from Yamalube and ring free (snake oil) to Pennzoil Full Synthetic I usually get approx. 75-90 hours. This engine has always had a sporadic miss at 4000-4200 RPM and at WOT at times. My brother has the same engine (Z300 HPDI) and he has experienced the same results. Just got the new oil pump installed under the TSB and now the engine is using more oil than before. I am bringing the boat back to the dealer to have it re-calibrated. If not, the plug life will be shortened based on my experience.

Also, I talked to a Yamaha Factory Rep at customer Service this morning. He said that the new oil pump delivers more oil volume at the mid-range position and the same at WOT. (More plug fouling?????).

He also told me there is no adjustment for the cold start up idle. You should wait to shift when the RPM comes down from 1200 RPMs to 700-800 RPMs. This usually takes 5 minutes. At a busy boat landing this is virtually impossible to wait that long before shifting the engine to move out of the way of the next person launching.

The last 2 posts bring up good points. We have a 300 that we've only had since the oil pump replacement bulletin this summer.

1 - It uses more oil that I would have imagined. Not a big deal but definitely more than I expected. We'll see if the plug fouling becomes an issue.

2 - we keep our boat slipped and have 20 minute no-wake run to get to the ocean. Hopefully that does help the block warm up and prolong life expectancy.

So far so good.

cobra427mnsi - 12/19/2007 6:26 PM I have a single 2003 250 hpdi on a 234 Cobia. It will drive this boat at 51 mph in the right conditions (calm water). It has 200 hours on it. I have never had any problems at all. Even after being stored for 6 months in the winter, it starts right up. It pulls like a freight train. I have had the oil pump updates done this fall. The Yamaha mechanic said that Yamaha has fixed the problems and this should run a long time. We will see. But, so far, I am more than happy with this engine. I can confirm that it only idles on 4 cylinders because I have pull the plug wires one at a time to find out. This must be a function of the computer. I wonder if this could be changed to run on all six with a software update? Paul





I dont think it can be changed to run on all six even at idle from a computer update. It might be computer related but there is a micro switch onthe engine near the throttle linkage that activates the 2 dormant cylinders when the throttle is moved. The reason for the two dead cylinders at idle is for the star rating. It wouln't pass on all six at idle to conform with the new 2006 EPA laws. Not sure but i think the 250 hpdi was out before the 300 but the first year for the 300 was 2005. The engines made in late 2004 for the 2005 year had the most problems. They neededthermostat updates as well as the weather stripping on thecowling that were allowing sea water to be sucked into the motor if the boat slowed down suddenly and back wash rolled over the cowlings. My motor is a 2006 300 and knowingidindt have much to worry about i still called yam with the serial # prior to purchase to find out if it needed anything and it didnt. I also did the oil pump updatea few weeks ago when i winterized. I guess I'llhave to wait till the spring to find out if there is any issues with that!!