The Boating Forum - Nav/Anchor Light circuit

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billspen101
08-18-2007, 09:13 AM
I'm working on refitting an old Wellcraft. Replacing the 20yr old wiring(redundant splices, modular plugs, and wires cut clean in-two - where they where just layed across the rough, top edge of the hull; Not to worry through it was ONLY the Ign Hot Wire!).........but I digress

Q: I am working on the Nav-Anchor Light circuit. There is some funky kind of existing circuit which involes the wiper circuit the circuits will be seperated now. (I'm seperating battery sources and that ain't gonna work!)


I KNOW that I have to have, a diode (not LED), to limit the current flow to the single-lamp, mast-head (window top) light bulb... so that the red-green light and the mast head can function together or seperately.....If you've read this far I'll assume you understand the circuit.:../images/emoticons/sleeping.gif../images/emoticons/sleeping.gif

What I need to know is, how to specify the Diode -it's 9-16v range... probably 3-5 amps would be sufficeint.

Can anyone help?

Much thanks!
Bill


highland61
08-18-2007, 09:35 AM
If you have the old diode, you just match the color bands.......or do a search for diode color bands.

savage
08-18-2007, 12:15 PM
I am facing the same challenge... old boat, reworked wiring.
Have the On/Off/On switch, and LED lighting for the nav and anchor lights. All lights are coming on in either switch position.
Hoping that someone can post a diagram of how to get this circuit to work properly, and if I need to add something to the circuit, where it goes.

Thanks!


timebandit
08-18-2007, 06:56 PM
I can't get it to post. All you have to do is use a 6 pin toggle switch. D.P.D.T.
Two Lamp System:
Jumper the two middle power pins together. If the switch is in the panel, the bottom pins are the nav when the handle throws up. The bow bi-color goes to one of these pins. The other bottom pin has a jumper the runs to the top pin on the SAME SIDE for anchor with a piggyback end the goes to the anchor light. There will be one pin left over.

MastHead System:
Jumper the two middle power pins together. If the switch is in the panel, the bottom pins are the nav when the handle throws up. The bow bi-color bow light and the transom light go to one of these pins.

Crabpot Man
08-18-2007, 07:06 PM
As timebandit says, no special circuits/ diodes invloved. I've got to run now, but if the wiring diagram hasn't been posted when I get back later, I'll post it.

Brian

rwidman
08-18-2007, 07:20 PM
timebandit - 8/18/2007 5:56 PM

I can't get it to post. All you have to do is use a 6 pin toggle switch. D.P.D.T.

Jumper the two middle power pins together. If the switch is in the panel, the bottom pins are the nav when the handle throws up. The bow bi-color goes to one of these pins. The other bottom pin has a jumper the runs to the top pin on the SAME SIDE for anchor with a piggyback end the goes to the anchor light.

Yep, it's all in the switch, no diode needed. Mine is a rotary switch, not a toggle. center is off, one way is anchor (all around) light, other way is anchor light plus navigation lights.

timebandit
08-18-2007, 07:33 PM
I can't get it to post. All you have to do is use a 6 pin toggle switch. D.P.D.T.
Two Lamp System: (Non Masthead)
Jumper the two middle power pins together. If the switch is in the panel, the bottom pins are the nav when the handle throws up. The bow bi-color goes to one of these pins. The other bottom pin has a jumper the runs to the top pin on the SAME SIDE for anchor with a piggyback end the goes to the anchor light. There will be one pin left over.

MastHead System Design 1: Single Toggle. (6 pin)
Jumper the two middle power pins together. If the switch is in the panel, the bottom pins are the nav when the handle throws up. The bow bi-color bow light and the transom light go to one of these pins with a piggyback end. The Fwd. compartment of the mast will go to the other bottom (nav) pin. The Aft. compartment of the mast will go to top (anc) pin on the SAME SIDE the switch. Run a jumper diagonally across the switch (corner to corner) to bring the two mast compartments together in the anc. position. There will be one pin left over.

MastHead System Design 2: Twin Toggle. (4 Pin)
Both switches will be S.P.D.T. The Nav. switch will have the bow and transom piggybacked on one side of the switch. The Anc. toggle will have the Fwd and Aft compartments on seperate sides of the switch. A jumper wire will run from the other side of the Nav. switch into the FWD compartment of the Anc. switch.

new wave
08-18-2007, 07:42 PM
The 6 pin toggle switch is a good idea, I just used a relay and it worked out well. Send me a pm and I can send you the diagram, it is very simple.

BigosS
08-18-2007, 09:35 PM
He might be wanting to use the same single circuit top light for both nav and anchor. In that case a diode or other current limiting device might be needed. I started to do this on one of my boats, then decided to just add another light.

timebandit
08-18-2007, 10:15 PM
A specialized COLE-HERSEE switch Model M-532 will work as well.

billspen101
08-20-2007, 07:26 AM
WOW!! Way more resposes that I had hoped for - I hadn't even considered actually using both poles on the switch - I like that A LOT better than the diode and since I have both wires there (at the switches) that's probably what I'l do -
THANKS EVERYONE...Bill

timebandit
08-20-2007, 01:29 PM
I could not turn up a diagram, but I will keep looking because it is a common question and a little hard to understand at first.

timebandit
08-20-2007, 01:52 PM
. n/c. | + ¦aft
. pos | + ¦pos
. fwd | + ¦bow/transom

Now jumper the fwd and aft together.

noelm
08-20-2007, 08:09 PM
no reason to limit current or voltage everything is 12V a very simple thing has been make complicated, the DPDT switch will do it as mentioned, or you could just use two seperate switches if you eally wanted to, just both on when under way, andcor when anchored, easy as!

timebandit
08-20-2007, 09:01 PM
Diodes drip voltage. Hence dimmer lights. :nono:
Noelm, What your suggesting would take 3 or 4 separate switches. This can be done with 1 or 2.

rwidman
08-20-2007, 10:08 PM
timebandit - 8/20/2007 8:01 PM

Diodes drip voltage.

Huh? ;?

timebandit
08-20-2007, 10:30 PM
rwidman - 8/20/2007 10:08 PM

timebandit - 8/20/2007 8:01 PM

Diodes drip voltage.

Huh? ;?
Drop, Sorry. :banghead:

noelm
08-20-2007, 11:23 PM
one switch or two at most will do it, one switch as per your example, or two, one for anchor light, one for red/green both on or one on when at anchor

noelm
08-20-2007, 11:24 PM
OH and a diode to drop voltage? why then would you want to drop voltage? it is all 12volt, lights, batteries the whole caboose!

timebandit
08-20-2007, 11:35 PM
noelm - 8/20/2007 11:24 PM

OH and a diode to drop voltage? why then would you want to drop voltage? it is all 12volt, lights, batteries the whole caboose!
No, you don't. That's just it.

noelm
08-21-2007, 12:03 AM
hhmm Ok then, I still think the first, one switch version that I think you (timebandit) described is the best system, end of story, but a lot are wired up to be seperate, not too sure why, maybe it was too tricky to sort out for a "backyard" electician.

rwidman
08-21-2007, 08:58 AM
timebandit - 8/20/2007 9:30 PM

rwidman - 8/20/2007 10:08 PM

timebandit - 8/20/2007 8:01 PM

Diodes drip voltage.

Huh? ;?
Drop, Sorry. :banghead:

OK, agreed.

leebert
08-21-2007, 02:28 PM
timebandit - 8/20/2007 11:35 PM

noelm - 8/20/2007 11:24 PM

OH and a diode to drop voltage? why then would you want to drop voltage? it is all 12volt, lights, batteries the whole caboose!
No, you don't. That's just it.

OK. I have to chime in on this a bit. True a diode will have a voltage drop across it but it's only .6-.7V (forward biased). If you used a germanium diode the drop would only be .2V. I don't think you'd see much of a difference in brightness (if at all) between a bulb with our without a diode in series.

Don't get me wrong though, use the switch.

LB

noelm
08-21-2007, 07:00 PM
that's what I was saying!

noelm
08-21-2007, 07:02 PM
Oh and the true reason for a Diode has NOTHING to do with Voltage drop!

timebandit
08-21-2007, 08:10 PM
Well yes and no. With a lamp load maybe not so much drop, but there is no real reason to add any more components to the circuit that can fail in this case. I just think that you are making this harder than it needs to be. Just my 2¢.

autobaun70
08-21-2007, 09:35 PM
While you are in there, you can tie your dash lights into the same switch pretty easily, eliminating the need for another switch. Personally, I would set it up so that they are on whenever your running lights are on. You can use the space that you were going to use for the panel lights for a dimmer for the panel, very nice to have when it is extremely dark, and something I have been intending to do for quite some time.

yottyboy
05-08-2008, 07:16 PM
How would you wire an illuminated switch for this so that the switch is lit when it's on?

JGKIII
05-08-2008, 11:17 PM
Here is a diagram of the circuit that you are looking for. If the switch handle is illuminated, there will be a terminal that ground will connect to. The small vertical lines represent a connection to those terminals. The two terminal for the anchor light are jumpered together.
Switch "UP" = Anchor light (I use up for the anchor light because the anchor light is UP above me.) Switch "Down" = Anchor and Running lights

Hope this helps.

PWR
X X X
l_____ Running lights

PWR
X X X----------Anchor Light
l___________l
When the message hits the board it eliminates the spaces in the switch diagram. Power goes to the two center terminals. Anchor wire goes to the left and right terminals. Running light can go to ONE of the two terminals.

JGKIII
05-08-2008, 11:45 PM
http://www.thehulltruth.com/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=198800&posts=1

Check this post in the photos forum. It has the actual diagram.

proaudioguy
12-18-2010, 07:17 PM
In my case the silk screened switch I have is only an spdt.
http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h51/40oldtimer19/Electrics/Nav-AnchorSwitch.jpg

Also trying to figure out what kind of diode to get. Since this thread is close to the top of google I figured I'd add the schematic for this less preferred method for those in the same situation.

seabob4
12-18-2010, 07:30 PM
My wiring diagram for both SPDT switch w/diode and DPDT without diode...
http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh301/seabob4/Proline%20website%20pics/Wiring%20Diagrams/NavSwitchWiring-1.jpg

mcopelin
12-18-2010, 10:51 PM
The size of the diode depends on the anchor lamp wattage in proaudioguy's diagram. Current only flows in the diode when the switch is in the Nav lights position. When the switch is in the anchor position the diode essentially blocks the current flowing to the nav lamp.
Power = Current x Voltage.
Let's say the anchor lamp power rating is 3 watts. Then the current through the lamp is 3/(12-.7) for 265mA. So the diode needs to be able to handle that current. In this case you could go to Radioshack and get a 1N4001 1A diode for .99 cents. To be on the safe side, the 1A diode will be good for anchor lamp ratings up to about 10W. DPDT switches are more expensive than than the SPDT/Diode solution.

Good luck

rwidman
12-19-2010, 07:47 AM
The size of the diode depends on the anchor lamp wattage in proaudioguy's diagram. Current only flows in the diode when the switch is in the Nav lights position. When the switch is in the anchor position the diode essentially blocks the current flowing to the nav lamp.
Power = Current x Voltage.
Let's say the anchor lamp power rating is 3 watts. Then the current through the lamp is 3/(12-.7) for 265mA. So the diode needs to be able to handle that current. In this case you could go to Radioshack and get a 1N4001 1A diode for .99 cents. To be on the safe side, the 1A diode will be good for anchor lamp ratings up to about 10W. DPDT switches are more expensive than than the SPDT/Diode solution.

Good luck
To be on the safe size, you can use the highest rated diode that will fit (within reason). And at least 50 volts because of the possibility of voltage spikes or transients. One disadvantage of the diode solution over switches is, if you ever manage to short the lamp wiring or the bulb shorts, the diode is likely to fail before the fuse protecting the circuit.

BTW: When you go to Radio Shack for your diode or any electronic components, be sure you know in advance what you want, because you will be the only one in the store who does. :roll

Ckerk (at Radio Shack) - "Can I help you find something?"
Me - "I need a rechargable "C" cell."
Clerk - "For a cell phone?"
Me - "No. Where are the rechargable batteries ?"
Clerk - "Oh, they are over here."

proaudioguy
12-29-2010, 07:15 PM
I was picking up a relay for my aux volt meter (relay activated with KEY on) at the autoparts store and grabbed an extra. It was $1.39. I used it with my SPDT to switch the nav and anchor lights instead of using the diode. If I happen to come across a DPDT that has the top and bottom indicator lights, I'll just pop off the switch rocker and move it over to that. Won't take but a few minutes to move the wiring around.

Off topic......
When I was about 14 the manager at Radio Shack wanted to hire me when I was older and at that time the electronic components section for the do it yourselfer was the primary focus. By the time I was 16 she was district manager and I learned you have to be 18 to work there. When I was 18 and going to PTEC for electronics I tried to get a job at Radio Shack and they had no interest in me. They wanted sales people to sell crappy toys, and overpriced receivers, etc. Now it's all about cell phone contracts, etc. When I got married and had to temporarily move to West Texas I got hired at Radio Shack and they wanted to pay me a little over $6. per hour plus a commission that was pooled among all employees. I passed on the job because the other employees were loosers and I didn't want my commission going to them. Took a job with Home Depot for $11./hr (toward the end of the good ole days to work there). I had 3 depts fighting over me the 3 weeks I was there. My wife's transfer to FL came through and we moved closer to MY home. Of course had there been a market for my line of work in Texas I wouldn't have had to look for a job anyway. The only legit sound company was heading into the slow time of year when I got there, and about 3 weeks after we moved, they called me.



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