SportFishing and Charters Forum - Butterfly jigs

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View Full Version : Butterfly jigs


Gringo
04-25-2007, 07:49 PM
I just spent the weekend in Houston, and was able to break away from the family reunion long enough to sprint thru a Bass Pro shop before my wife tackled me and drug me back to the barbeque.

I grabbed several Shimano butterfly jigs, a Williamson Benthos jig, some owner stinger hooks, along with a handful of other stuff.

I plan to try them out with a Penn 113H setup, presently spooled with PowerPro 40 lb. Is that reel going to be too slow? Any tips on using them? We dont have offshore platforms or wrecks with structure here, I was thinking of looking for mini "seamounts" where rocks and coral sticks up from the bottom. I know one spot where it comes from 70 ft. up to 40, for example.

Any advice appreciated.


thunnus hunter
04-25-2007, 08:25 PM
Yeah the penn will be too slow, you'd be better off with something like a torium, trinidad, calcuta or any other reel along those lines. I don't know what you are using for a rod but a shimano 7'6" medium heavy musky rod works very well as an alternative to the trevala butterfly rods, but you will definately want a faster reel to impart the right action on the jig along with the rod.

Gmack
04-25-2007, 08:28 PM
I would try what you have first. What could it hurt?

What brand of boat is that you have? Looks really really nice!!!!

Gary


Ironwoodtuna
04-25-2007, 09:31 PM
The Penn not only is to slow but will blow up as soon as you get to catching fish on the jigs. I have five of the Trevala 5'8" heavy rods with Torium30's and 50# Power Pro. We smoke the tuna 30-100+ POUNDS. Once you start using these rods/reels & jigs you'll be hooked and will never look back. We even take Tilefish in 600ft of water. Your going to love-um! TIghtlines! Mty

Steel Workin
04-25-2007, 09:38 PM
We used the Trevala rods with Trinidad 40n this past week those set up's are amazing we caught a 100 plus lb Reef Donkey these rigs and plenty of grouper to go around!

Curmudgeon
04-25-2007, 09:38 PM
Put the handle by the end hole and any thoughts of a Shamano will be a fleeting memory ... ;)

Gringo
04-25-2007, 09:40 PM
Gmack - 4/25/2007 7:28 PM

I would try what you have first. What could it hurt?

What brand of boat is that you have? Looks really really nice!!!!

Gary

Thanks. It's a new Andros Permit 22, just got it a few weeks ago. So far, its looking to be an ideal boat for our lifestyle and location.


Curmudgeon, do you mean move the crank arm in to the other hole to make it shorter?

trinhtd
04-26-2007, 12:05 AM
I have a trevala rod and daiwa saltist high speed. Love the combo.

Gringo
04-26-2007, 09:11 AM
Okay, so the Toriums are fast enough, and the Saltist....any other fast reels out there suitable for butterfly jigs? I would like to get into it cheaply, to see how well it works in these waters. If its a good technique, then I dont mind sinking the money into the right gear. But I dont like investing all out in top notch stuff just to find out that its not useful where I live.

The prices on the toriums doesnt scare me off, but I might not be able to find one here and alternatives would be good to know.

steve55
04-26-2007, 10:22 AM
Certainly not cheap, but I bought an Avet SX 2-speed (6/4) married to a 6.5' Chaos 15-50 for butterfly jigging. My rationale is that where I fish there are lots of 60+ pound grouper and while I'd want the fast speed for working the jig, once hit and set, I'd need something with more balls to get the fish up the water column. Notice the future tense - I haven't put this theory into practice yet...

Gringo
04-26-2007, 10:56 AM
Good point. There are so many grouper here its unbelievable. I hadnt thought of a specific fish to target, but Nassau Grouper would definitely be a good place to start.
Some of the locals:
http://img92.imageshack.us/img92/7652/dinnerlw7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/4268/nuthergrouperex7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

every time I dive I see grouper, and catch them bottom fishing. But my hookah setup limits me to 60 ft. diving, so I dont know whats out there in 100+ ft.

Whats the least expensive reel you think would work?

Ironwoodtuna
04-26-2007, 11:06 AM
The Torium & Trevala rod with 50# power Pro line setup is cheap and very BALLSSSIEEEE! I have never had any size outfit kick an 80lb. YFT ass so fast! I now use the setup for chunking them at night. I stay with the products that work, if you put 80#PP on it for grouper, I think the setup would do great! Tightlines...

nicktg
04-26-2007, 01:30 PM
Same setup here Steve55 (except that I got the MXJ 6/4).

But....all theory like you said :grin:

Torium 20 or 30 is the cheapest reel I can think of.

kinggetter
04-26-2007, 01:31 PM
two more lower budget reels to consider would be the Shimano Spheros 12000 or 14000 and the Quantum Cabo 60,70 or 80.

Gringo
04-26-2007, 01:52 PM
Ok..I got a list together...Torium,Trinidad, Calcutta, Spheros, Cabo, Saltist.....gonna head down to the country's ONE tackle/marine supply and see what they might have in stock to get me through til my next trip to USA...

Gringo
04-26-2007, 04:07 PM
just got back from shop. they have one Torium 30 at $ 250. Also had another Shimano thingum, looks kinda like a more plastic version of the Torium, I think it was called something like Speedmaster IV, with a 6:1 gear ratio. Didnt have a price on it, but compared to the Torium it felt like a toy.

No Trevala rods, although they have quite a selection (for here) of Ugly Sticks, BillFisher, and Penn rods. If I decide to go ahead with the Torium (ouch) what should I look for in a rod?

Gringo
04-26-2007, 04:09 PM
deleted duplicate post.

davidcambre
04-26-2007, 04:59 PM
Gringo,
Check out the penn Baja Special, I have 80# PP on mine with a 6.6' Shimano Tallus rods. Have caught Cobia to 50#
AJ's to 40# and YFT to 50. $350 for rod,reel & line.

Ironwoodtuna
04-26-2007, 05:05 PM
Why don't you just call Tackledirect @ 888-354-7335 ask for dave, tell him I sent you, he can ovenight you the Trevala 5'8" Heavy rod, the reel and the line loaded for a deal. He can ovenight it to ya...mty

phin
04-26-2007, 05:17 PM
I second the Penn Baja Special (113HN) it has a 4.9:1 ratio, a narrow, solid aluminum frame, stronger drag, and is $150 some places on the net. PM me if you need details. That is the cheapest you will find a high speed reel with strong enough drag to fish 65-80# braided line that you will need for larger bottom dwellers in order to not be losing $20 jigs every 10 minutes. The 4.9 may not be as high as 6.2 or 6.3, but the spool is taller so it will still pull in line very quickly. Your standard red-side plated 113 H's speed is something like 3.8:1 at the most I think, and it is heavier and wider than the 113HN.
If money is no option, then look into a Torsa 20 or 30 (over $600!) or a Daiwa Saltiga 30T. Star drags are better for jigging near the bottom because of how far you can lock the drag down and how quickly you can engage the this full pressure on a fish, but you will blow up many cheaper star drags that can't stand the pressure from fishing braid at high drag (even some higher cost star drags do not have anti-reverse systems that can stand up to the pressures their own drags can go up to).
That being said, I use two speed Avets because I like their light weight and high speed with lower gear to winch in stupid AJ's, etc. If I was just getting into it, I would go with the Penn 113HN baja special on a Trevala 60-200# or 80-200# spooled with 65 or 80# braid. That puts you right at $300 for the combo, which is cheaper than a Trinidad or Saltiga on its own.
-my $.02

Gringo
04-26-2007, 05:21 PM
thanks for the advice. I may have to resort to that, but theres no Fed-Ex overnight here. It takes about two to three days. Prices for anything in a box start at about$ 150 just for the Fed Ex. An envelope is $ 50. So, a box with a reel, and a tube with a rod, = $ 300 in Fed Ex.

Then I pay 30% of the invoice value import duty. See what I mean?

To add some injury....800 numbers are not free from here. I pay international rates. Nuther ouch.

Thats why I was trying to find something local in stock that would do the job.

Ironwoodtuna
04-26-2007, 05:29 PM
Sorry to disagree, but PENN drags suck! I threw out all my Penns years ago and never looked back. The star drag on the Torium is awesome and if you want a less expensive but still heavy-duty reel setup with speed of 4.2 you can go to the Shimano TLD20/40 graphite reel or the Speedster you mention before, it's gears are the same big S/S as the Torium, but it has a anti-reverse dog verses the new Torium instant stop anti-reverse, but I never had a dog break or go bad, it's HD! Don't fear the graphite its strong. I had twelve of them I just sold and went to the new metal Toriums. The reel TLD20-40 is around $110.00 vs the Torium at $170.00, your right on with the rod!

eat a. pogy
04-26-2007, 05:33 PM
Stay away from the toriums for jigging. The antireverse is not strong enough. Save your money and get the trinidad.

phin
04-26-2007, 05:49 PM
Saying Penn drags suck and then recommending a TLD for jigging ?
The 113HN will do over 20# of drag. I may be mistaken, but I believe the TLD 20 does much less than 20# before locking the handle up, and the TLD is not suited to jigging with a narrow frame like the 113HN.

Any high speed reel will work for you if you do not have to use more than say 50# braid on 20# fish, but with big fish, you want a very strong leverdrag or preferably a star drag that can be engaged instantly for a hookset if you get hit on the drop or first pump.

Go with a Saltist high speed (daiwa's version of the torium) if you believe that a Penn's drag sucks and do not want to shell out the money for a Saltiga or Trinidad.

In my opinion, the 113HN is an awesome value where you can find it discounted to $150 some places. It is normally 190 or so.

Like e.a. pogy, I have had Toriums in my hand with their antireverse pawls and one-way bearings being stripped out by 40-50# AJ. Buy a Saltist if you want under $200 but not the Penn.

crackerasscracker
04-26-2007, 08:22 PM
I have also seen the Toriums issue with braid and a ton of drag...


I also do not see how one can say Penn 113H drags suck... there are a lot of dead grouper and snapper that will disagree with that comment....

phin
04-28-2007, 12:40 AM
Even better....
Boater's world combos with their new outerbanks outfitters jigging rods which appear to be the same as the trevalas.-

113HN baja special w/ 6' 80-200 rod for $230
http://www.boatersworld.com/product/910001744.htm
or
113HN w/ 6'6" 60-200 rod for $250
http://www.boatersworld.com/product/910001745.htm

Don't see how you can beat either of those with a stick if you want a rig that is set up specifically to jig.

BigSkyGuy
04-28-2007, 01:06 AM
Penn 113 drags...nothing really wrong with these drags, but they may not be strong enough for some applications. I find them marginal for taking big yellowtail in structure. Some of the Mexican fishermen use 114s for that reason. The new Baja Special, however, has different drags, much more powerful. I gave one to a friend and we're playing with one now.

Shimano Speedmaster...an inexpensive high-speed reel. I think about $125 in the US. Good reel for 20-30 lb line, 40 may be too much. Not a great choice for heavy braid.

I use a Saltist and an Avet LX6/3 for jigging with braid. I'm not convinced the Avet SX or MX sizes have strong enough drags if you are fishing structure, and I also wonder if the spools are big enough to reel in line fast enough.

Yeah, I'm in Mexico too and buying stuff can be tough. Shipping options are few, packages are often opened, inspected and poorly closed, duties are high. I did see some Avet reels for sale in the CCC Supermarket in La Paz recently. :grin:

When you live here, you also have to consider options for servicing reels, and backup reels are a must.

Gringo
04-28-2007, 09:43 AM
what would you think is the better setup, the Penn Baja Special at $ 250,
or the Torium 20/trevala setup for $280? ( http://tackledirect.com/shimano-torium-trevala-butterfly-jigging-combos.html )

captkenr
04-28-2007, 10:26 AM
I have a couple of the Trevala setups. One spinning and one conventional. Not being a high roller, I opted for reels that suit me and that I know are workhorses. On the conventional (80-200) I have a Diawa Saltist loaded with 80# Spectra. The spinning rig is lighter. (I'd have to go to the boat to get the specs) On the spinning rod, I have the Pfleuger President 6060 loaded with 400 yards of 40# Spectra.

It didn't surprise me that the April issue of Sportfishing Magazine listed both of these reels as "Bullet proof." Another "Bullet proof" reel, assuming you are on a budget, is the Shimano Bantam Mag 50.

Re: Butterfly Jigs. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to build a mold and pour your own. The assist hook rigging is a piece of cake too.

Gringo
04-28-2007, 10:52 AM
Thats one heck of an excellent idea, Capt. Ken. In my situation, a lot of sense. I cant run down to the shop to pay $ 15 for a jigging lure. I have to either fly to the US, or import with Fed-Ex charges running $ 100+ per box.

Are there kits out there with the materials and instructions on how to make a mold? What do you use, if you cant cast aluminum at home?

welder
04-28-2007, 11:12 AM
Gringo, all those new fishing buddies your wife keeps giving you, tell her they need to bring tackel and gear that is on YOUR WISH LIST that she has avalible 24/7 and you don't mind 2-3-4 or 5 of anything.

Or

Y'all need a tackle co-op down there so who ever makes the hop to the US brings the stuff back , man.


Just a thought. ;)

Gringo
04-28-2007, 11:17 AM
Notice how many seats there are NOT, on the new boat? heh heh heh....

plus, I suspect that for the worst of them, this new boat is too "tippy" oooh...eeek...take me back to the dock!!

wombatV
04-28-2007, 12:20 PM
Get a saltist for cheap or the saltiga if you have the extra money. Make your own jigs with flat stainless bar stock for just 2.00 a pound. Gives you something to do during the offseason.

captkenr
04-28-2007, 03:00 PM
You can use Silicone to make a mold or a couple of pieces of oak and some J-B weld. With silicone, I can pop a mold off a factory model lure that is absolutely identical to the original.

You can buy J-B Weld at any hardware of automotive store.

I'm working on some instructional CDs right now and may make one on molding and simple mold making. I think there is a need for really good instruction. You get kinda tired buying CDs that show folks catching fish but offer precious little in the way of instruction.

phin
04-28-2007, 03:26 PM
Gringo - 4/28/2007 8:43 AM

what would you think is the better setup, the Penn Baja Special at $ 250,
or the Torium 20/trevala setup for $280? ( http://tackledirect.com/shimano-torium-trevala-butterfly-jigging-combos.html )


The Torium 20's anti-reverse will blow out at 15-18# of drag. I have personally had it happen with a Torium while jigging, and reports of it with the Toriums are all over the internet- it is not an isolated incident, it is due to the design of the antireverse in the 16, 20, and 30! You have to go to the Trinidad 40 to have a dif. antireverse dog system that will not strip out on you when you try to fish over 15-18# of drag like you would need to use with 65 or 80# braid. (preferable with high dollar store-bought jigs)

I would rather jig with my Avet SX with 2/3 spool of 50# braid which lets it pull about 18# drag at full power than using any Torium or Trinidad except a TN40.
The Avets are not the most ideal to jig with because they are leverdrags, but my fav. rig to use is an LX6/3 w/ 65# braid on a 60-200 Trevala. I like the high speed but torque of low gear and the really light weight of the reel. I did not want the reel solely to jig with though, so it is what it is.

FYI: I also have a Saltist 50H that is only used for bottom fishing with 65# braid. It will pull over 20# of drag with a full spool of line, and I believe the 30, 40 and 50 size Saltists have the same drags.

Again, you cannot jig heavy braid with a Torium or Trinidad unless you have the 40 size because their anti-reverses will fail, i.e. strip out due to mechanical failure.

The Penn 113HN has a drag system that is supposed to do way over 20#, but I have not personally tried one. I have not heard anyone talking about any Penn 113 anti reverses blowing out, and I would assume that the Baja special's drag and antireverse are at least as good if not better than traditional 113 Senators, which have been pulling fish up off the bottom for years for us.

Like I said, if you want to spend under $200 on a reel specifically to jig with, then go with a Saltist (30T) or the Penn 113HN.
The boaters world combos for the jigging rods and Penn 113HNs for 250 or less are hard to beat.

Gringo
04-29-2007, 12:20 PM
Well, an update. Yesterday afternoon I had to make an unplanned run over to Pine Cay (30 miles roundtrip) and I grabbed the tackle just in case I had a chance to try a jig. We went outside reef on the return, and trolled some new lures for about a hour...two barracuda that we threw back. Then, just before dusk, I said what the heck, and drifted the boat in about 180 ft. of water over a shelf with no structure that i could see...just a ledge between the shallow ( breaking surf) reef and the deep blue sea. On my third cast with a Williamson Benthos, something big hit it. But I only had it on the hook for maybe five seconds. never saw it. On about the sixth cast, another hit. I didnt want to lose this one, so I didnt just start cranking right away...I tried to set the hook, and then started pulling. This was with an older TLD reel on a Penn Slammer rod, with just 30 lb. mono on it.

Guess I should have horsed it up as fast as I could, but he kept pulling the line off until he got hit.

Well, the half-a-snapper I pulled up was 18 inches long, and the fillets were enough to feed six people. I would have liked to see what bit it in half. Teeth marks are visible in the photo, and the cutting board is 16" long. Not a monster, but a pretty respectable snapper for here. We then caught a small AJ and a Yellow jack before we had to boogie back to the 'instrument approach after dark' marina. Three fish jigging within 30 minutes, with wrong reel, wrong rod, wrong line, and no experience. I think I am hooked.

http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/7085/sharkedsnapperx25uk4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

RIC
04-29-2007, 03:43 PM
DAMN! I was not even there and i think i am hooked as well!

Ric

Gringo
04-29-2007, 06:11 PM
I am curious as to why the Shimano site recommends tying mono directly to the solid ring, with no steel leader at all. Theres some big teeth down there.


Is it just cause they sell more jigs that way?

phin
04-29-2007, 07:31 PM
Their DVD/infomercial actually recommends to use a short piece of flexible cable when you know kings, etc. may bite. You can tie it with an albright/bimini same as tying the fluoro to the spectra.

Gringo
04-29-2007, 07:44 PM
Havent heard of kings here, but we got wahoo out the wazoo.

Dumb question, but whats the diff between fluorocarbon and monofiliment? how long a fluoro leader do they recommend?

Nuther dumb question...what do you guys do when you haul in a dozen big snappers? Do you freeze them? Sell em? give em away? Just judging by the photos posted, some people are boating hundreds of pounds of fish...

Gringo
04-30-2007, 09:11 AM
Found the diff between fluorocarbons and mono. Still wondering about what you do with all that fish you catch, though.

steve55
04-30-2007, 10:25 AM
Gringo - 4/29/2007 6:44 PM

Havent heard of kings here, but we got wahoo out the wazoo.

Dumb question, but whats the diff between fluorocarbon and monofiliment? how long a fluoro leader do they recommend?

Nuther dumb question...what do you guys do when you haul in a dozen big snappers? Do you freeze them? Sell em? give em away? Just judging by the photos posted, some people are boating hundreds of pounds of fish...

Fluorocarbon doesn't stretch, which is a good thing when you're fishing the depths. You need to feel everything. Also, because it is made from polyethylene (I think), fluoro is pretty transparent in water. Some mono stretches up to 25% which is necessary if you're trolling and spooled with spectra; i.e., you'll need a shock leader to absorb the impact of a big strike. If I dorked this up, someone correct me, please.

Gringo
04-30-2007, 10:47 AM
Thanks Steve, thats pretty much what I found out researching it. I am about to head down to the nations only tackle shop and see if perhaps they have any.

Any idea how long a fluoro leader I should put on PowerPro for butterfly jigging? I couldnt find that info on the Shimano site.
Thanks

Ironwoodtuna
04-30-2007, 01:54 PM
I use 4-5 foot 80# Pink Floro leaders with a ballbearing sampo swivel to the braid and tie direct to the solid S/S ring on the jig when fishing for 40-100# YFT in the N.E. canyons. The abrasion resistance of the floro is the only way to go and well worth the cost. mty

Gringo
04-30-2007, 10:48 PM
I managed to buy the one 25 yd. spool of 60 lb. Fluro in the country, I think. Everything else at the shop was light stuff. 10-20 lb. I spooled up with all the 80# Power Pro I could fit on the old TLD, ( other choice was 40# Power Pro) and tied a 5 ft. fluro leader to it with an Albright. I had a snap swivel on the end,thru the steel split ring on the lure. We managed to get out for a couple hours this afternoon...dodging squalls etc. Kept getting hits, but nothing stayed on the hook. Took paint off two of the lures (Shimano and Williamson) and wife had something that bent the rod double before it let go.

Part of the little braid leader on one hook bitten halfway through, so I know they are biting the whole lure, but didnt get anything hooked. I think I will lengthen one hook leader an inch or so, stagger them so to speak. And keep trying.
But man, my arms are tired.

captkenr
05-01-2007, 09:31 AM
As fast as I fish butterfly type jigs, I do not believe that Fluoro makes a bit of difference for most fish. Instead of using the "assist hook" rigging, try this:

Take 18" of #9 or 10 (single strand) wire and form an eye in one end. Pass the wire through the eye on your jig then through the eye of a long shanke hook with the bend of the hook facing away from the jig then form another loop to secure.

I do not use rings on my homemade lures at all. I don't loose jigs to Mackerel or Wahoo either.

I can post a pic of the rig if it will help.

Gringo
05-01-2007, 09:43 AM
CaptKenr, I am very interested in your method. I cannot just trot down to the store for more Owner hooks, here, of course.

Its not clear to me how far back the hook is from the jig eye in your description, or how you secure the jig eye to the hook. I assume you end up forming an eye at each end of the wire, with a twist somewhere in the middle for the jig to attach to?

Ironwoodtuna
05-01-2007, 06:11 PM
I would hope that you are using the two hook Owners hooks on you jig, I miss very few hits on the twin hook rigs. I also tie direct to the solid ring rather than using a snap. The wire leader ideas sound like you need to incorporate it due to the kings, and wahoos. I think that an 18" piece of wire haywire twisted to a 150# sampo swivel and the other end to the solid ring with a very small loop is going to work. I like the Long Butterfly jigs for bottom dwellers and tunas using a sharp jig and wait method giving the big squid arch and its easier on your arms. With the short jigs for vertical fast jigging and your arms don't get a break, especially if the fish are bitting. Tightlines, mty

Gringo
05-01-2007, 06:29 PM
Yep, two of the stinger hooks on short braid, just like Shimano shows on their website. In two brief afternoon trips, we have had a total of seven definite 'hits', got the half-a-snapper, an AJ and a yellow jack, so, that's three fish boated out of seven hits. Not horrible, but I would like to improve it. I also bought some similar Williamson hooks, that come in pairs, with one long braid and one shorter one. I think I will try those next. Whatever this is, its hitting right off the bottom on the first couple of jigs, and its biting the paint off.

captkenr
05-02-2007, 12:21 AM
I use one hook only. When I catch a fish that goes wild in the boat, I want the hook to be in the fish and not free swinging.

The hook is right at the head of the bait. A fish of any size engulfs the whole thing.

I'll attach a pic of a home made lure rigged with a single on wire.

The pink lures were made in a JB Weld mold I popped off the chrome lure. The cylindrical pink one was made by drilling a hole in an oak board then splitting the board with a bandsaw. Take a look at the original and the copy.

From what I understand of the laws governing these things, you can make your own but don't sell them.

Gringo
05-02-2007, 05:55 PM
Do you ever put a treble on the bottom of the jig?

BTW, I tried to find the clay here, no luck. can get plaster of paris,though, and JB Weld and Hi-Temp RTV are available.

captkenr
05-02-2007, 06:11 PM
Actually, most any kids modeling clay will work. You must make sure you spray your model master with Pam or other cooking spray.

Re: Trebels. Yes, I have but I get snagged too often.

If you can't find the lures cheap enough, buy 4-8oz cigar shaped trolling sinkers. Rig as shown and scrape them with a knife to make them sparkle. You can paint them if you'd like too. First, clean them with acetone to remove oil and grease thendip them in 10% vinegar solution to remove oxide. Spray them with white Rustoleum primer then use your choice of fluorescent paints for one side of the jig. Leave one side white. I like Blue, Green, and Pink. Hot Chartreuse on one side and hot orange on the other works great too.

Next time you are stateside, order a diamond jig mold from Do-It corp.

If I can help further, just ask.

Brennan
05-03-2007, 08:20 PM
We hammer the Snapper, AJ's and Cobia on the Trevala rod with the Torium 30....I have found some jigs that you can buy at Academy (Powerco) I beleive they are called, for about 5$ a piece cheaper than the Butterfly Jigs and they work just as good or better!!! They 4-5ft. of shockleader also works much better than straight to the Power Pro, we use regular mono, Fluoro is too expensive and totally unecessary!

Gringo
05-04-2007, 08:31 AM
Weather has been lousy ( blowing hard, thunder and lightning, blowing rain) for two days, but weekend forecast is great. Will be out testing some of this stuff from this afternoon on.

One thing I realized, I had changed where the little dangling hooks are attached. I did have them on a split ring between the butterfly nose loop and the ring on the line. I changed that and attached them to the lure loop, and didnt hook another hit after that. Could such a small change make that much difference?

Gringo
05-06-2007, 07:52 AM
Welll, after yesterday, I am down to one store-bought jig. Something grabbed one of the Shimanos and hauled ass under a rock ledge, it cut the fluro leader. Second one, I dont know WHAT hit it, but its gone.

For what its worth, we are getting maybe twice as many hits on the Williamson Benthos speed jig as we are on Shimano butterfly jigs. Still have the Williamson, so I am going to wire leader today.

Will be looking online for cheaper jigs than Shimano.

murray31602
05-06-2007, 11:27 AM
Here is where I have purchased some just recently The prices are great and the service was unbeatable. On the first order, I bought a dozen of a couple of models on Wednesday morning. They were Priority mailed to me and I gotthem on Friday morning.
I caught a a Red snapper and an Amberjack at the same time on one of the longer models in Mackerel color. Good service, good price ( about 1/3) and the lures work great. You have to hang your own hooks on them but that isn't a problem.
Take care, Murray

murray31602
05-06-2007, 11:28 AM
http://www.shulure.com/products/?gclid=CNmoqsDe-YsCFQyAUAod63tnWA

Here is where I have purchased some just recently The prices are great and the service was unbeatable. On the first order, I bought a dozen of a couple of models on Wednesday morning. They were Priority mailed to me and I gotthem on Friday morning.
I caught a a Red snapper and an Amberjack at the same time on one of the longer models in Mackerel color. Good service, good price ( about 1/3) and the lures work great. You have to hang your own hooks on them but that isn't a problem.
Take care, Murray

sfprsr
05-08-2007, 08:30 PM
Anyone ever tried a Penn 545GS? Looks like a nice jig reel star drag, high retrieve etc.
http://www.pennreels.com/01_products/reels/conventional/05_gs_performance/545.htm
I almost bought a torium 20 with the trevala rod this weekend. Does anyone know the drag rating on the Penn 545GS?

rochester1975
05-09-2007, 03:10 PM
Is a heavy duty spinning reel ok for jiggs. I have a Penn 950 on a 7 ft road basiclly a 30 lb outfit

rochester1975
05-09-2007, 03:11 PM
Is a heavy duty spinning reel ok for jigs. I have a Penn 950 on a 7 ft road basically a 30 lb outfit

nicktg
05-10-2007, 08:17 AM
Spinning gear is just fine. Even more for novice butterfly fishermen (like me). I have the Penn 850ss loaded with 50lb Ppro. It's easier because I don't have to worry about winding the line with my thump and focus on the correct moves to make the jig work best. I have started using my Avet MXL 6/4 and JX 6/4 outfits as well and I am getting better at it day by day. One thing I've learned so far: do it even semi right and ALL predator species attack! Tiring but awesome :thumbsup:

neil burnie
05-14-2007, 10:06 PM
I was using a Thunnus 1600 spinner last year with 80# spectra on a Trevala rod.... had good success and went up to the 80-200 Trevala rod with an ALUTECNOS Gorilla 12# .... this beautiful little reel will give 40# of drag , has great free spool, and holds about 400 yards of 80# braid. It is much easier to fish the jig on the drop with this rig as you just intermittently thumb the spool on the way down. I haven't had a big yft this year so far but I'm sure the rig will handle 'em!!

bones

BigbaitBigfish
05-28-2007, 08:36 PM
Capt. Ken,

Do you use that same setup if you have an 8" or longer jig, like the knife jigs or spear jigs?

chuckb
05-29-2007, 11:54 PM
Where do you guys have your hooks set up on your Williamson Speed Jigs? I have 3 of them and kept one up on top and one in the middle. Maybe I should put both up top. I have the extra hooks that they sell to go with them. Second, when you are jigging do you have your drag tightend all the way? I am going to use my Tekota 800 to jig on a heavy action rod. Thanks

oceanluvr30
07-11-2007, 10:38 AM
Gringo - 4/29/2007 6:44 PM

Havent heard of kings here, but we got wahoo out the wazoo.

Dumb question, but whats the diff between fluorocarbon and monofiliment? how long a fluoro leader do they recommend?

Nuther dumb question...what do you guys do when you haul in a dozen big snappers? Do you freeze them? Sell em? give em away? Just judging by the photos posted, some people are boating hundreds of pounds of fish...

Thanks Gringo for turning me on to this thread on the Butterfly Jigs. Sorry to see you didn't even consider the option of throwing the fish back into the deep blue. Almost every fishery in the world is over-fished and stressed. There are places in the Caribbean where the reefs are barren. If we all kept only what we could eat in a meal or two and threw the rest back, that practice would go a long way to help maintain fisheries. If you want frozen fish go to the supermarket...You live on an island and apparently fish a lot, so whats the big deal? If you want a fish dinner, pop out the door, jump in your good looking Andros and have some fun....By the way i know I will get slammed by a number of members..who see nothing wrong with stocking their freezers full of fish, most of which will never get eaten ;)

26775

Gringo
07-11-2007, 11:53 AM
I am not sure what you are talking about. I was the one asking the guys with the photos of boats full of fish what they did with all of them. We only take what we plan to eat, and theres usually enough left over from even one fish to put another couple meals in the freezer. When we run low, we go fishing again. Any day we want.

My last question in that thread was what the heck would one do with a dozen big snapper. I was curious. I got room in the freezer here for maybe three or four at most.

And when we catch more fish than we need, we give it to local friends who feed their families with it. Even barracuda. Gave away two yesterday in fact.

BigbaitBigfish
07-11-2007, 12:20 PM
Gringo - be careful with the cudas, I love the little ones (taste a lot like grouper) but the big ones can carry Ciguaterra in your area. When I lived on St. Maarten, I knew somebody that died from Cig. after eating a 4-5 foot cuda. Ciguaterra builds up with AGE, not size, in the warmer waters, so cudas over about 3.5-4', big grouper (40+lbs) , and big AJ's over about 50 lbs might carry it. Nothing to worry about with tuna, macks, dolphin, etc.

captkenr
07-11-2007, 12:21 PM
Sorry I didn't see the Q? earlier. RE: same rig with long Knife Jigs.

I don't use the longer jigs because I don't have a mold for them. I refuse to spend $20 on a jig. Some of my jigs look like they are 12" long when I add a long Mylar skirt and I darn sure don't have a problem with hook-ups on them. I could add a tail hook or rig a long "assist Leader" but I get enough strikes and hook-ups the way I rig and with the lures I use.

Some days, the long skirt jig rules.

BigbaitBigfish
07-11-2007, 12:25 PM
Capt. Ken - thanks for the info.

Regarding the prices of these jigs, I found a guy on ebay that sells some pretty dang cheap stuff. I am not affiliated with him in any way, but you can make offers on his 'buy it nows' and win that are MUCH lower than his asking price. I ended up buying about 9 BIG jigs and paid about $40 which included shipping. A few of them had assist hooks already too.

http://stores.ebay.com/FISHINCOMFORT_W0QQssPageNameZstrkQ3amefsQ3amesstQQ tZkm

BigbaitBigfish
07-11-2007, 12:26 PM
Here's an example of one of my purchases:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270094243593

Not sure if my price shows up, but buy it now was 49.95 and I got them for 9.95.

Hope I'm not breaking any forum rules? ;?

Gringo
07-11-2007, 01:04 PM
So far, we have tried Shimanos, Williamsons, BassPro's and another brand I dont remember right now. I havent noticed a penny's worth of difference in perfofrmance from the $ 5 jigs to the $ 15 Shimanos. I am guessing the fish here havent seen the Spanish Fly video.

oceanluvr30
07-11-2007, 01:50 PM
Gringo - 7/11/2007 10:53 AM

I am not sure what you are talking about. I was the one asking the guys with the photos of boats full of fish what they did with all of them. We only take what we plan to eat, and there's usually enough left over from even one fish to put another couple meals in the freezer. When we run low, we go fishing again. Any day we want.

My last question in that thread was what the heck would one do with a dozen big snapper. I was curious. I got room in the freezer here for maybe three or four at most.

And when we catch more fish than we need, we give it to local friends who feed their families with it. Even barracuda. Gave away two yesterday in fact.

Gringo, perhaps I misread your post but I thought you wanted to know what others guys did with all the fish they caught and you did not mention the option of just throwing them back. My statement was just why not just throw them back? Let them reproduce and live to fight another day...?

I am glad to see you keep only what you can reasonably eat in a meal or two. Obviously the larger fish will produce more meat then can be eaten at one time and will need to be frozen. However we have all seen too many boats come back to the docks with a cooler full of fish. No offense meant.

Btw does your Andros have a gurgling sound coming from the scuppers at slow speed? The one I tested did and Andy said it was normal. I thought the sound would drive me crazy while trolling....which is one of the reasons I bought another boat.

26775

Gringo
07-11-2007, 02:06 PM
Yes, the scuppers make a gurgling, slurping sound when underway. With my noisy 2-stroke carbed Yammie, it really doesnt bother me. (But then I am half deaf anyhow...too many years of diving, gunfire, and rock and roll I guess.)

I went for the salt water washdown, and with the boat moving I can hose that puppy clean and the scuppers literally suck the water right out of it, blood, sand and all. Its a floating ball checkvalve scupper. works really well. Its not really an obnoxious noise to us, I guess we got used to it. I like not having to deal with plugs etc. but if you DID want to shut the scuppers up I suspect a couple external expanding plugs would sure do it. easy enough to reach.

REDWEISER
07-11-2007, 07:46 PM
captkenr - 5/2/2007 4:11 PM

If you can't find the lures cheap enough, buy 4-8oz cigar shaped trolling sinkers. Rig as shown and scrape them with a knife to make them sparkle. You can paint them if you'd like too. First, clean them with acetone to remove oil and grease thendip them in 10% vinegar solution to remove oxide. Spray them with white Rustoleum primer then use your choice of fluorescent paints for one side of the jig. Leave one side white. I like Blue, Green, and Pink. Hot Chartreuse on one side and hot orange on the other works great too.

Ken, I've made a few, they'll work if the Tuna are biting ... Price is right ... about $1.

http://redphillips.zoomshare.com/files/3/4/5_-_Pics/Jig_.JPG

ssrs69camaro
07-11-2007, 10:45 PM
hey guys,I'm just getting in to jigging butterflies.I have used the lead head jigs with the curly Q tails for snapper and grouper.The way I would jig for them is drop it all the way to the bottom,jerk up,reel,jerk up,reel.Is this the correct way with the butterfly jigs as well?Thanks

steve55
07-12-2007, 11:28 AM
ssrs69camaro - 7/11/2007 9:45 PM

hey guys,I'm just getting in to jigging butterflies.I have used the lead head jigs with the curly Q tails for snapper and grouper.The way I would jig for them is drop it all the way to the bottom,jerk up,reel,jerk up,reel.Is this the correct way with the butterfly jigs as well?Thanks

Pretty much. There's a video on Shimano's site:
http://fish.shimano.com/publish/content/fish/sac/us/en/butterfly_fishing/fishing_the_butterfly.html



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