The Boating Forum - Panga Boats

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Aquas222
10-19-2006, 02:31 PM
Besides Panga's unique hull design, could anyone shed some personal testimonies about these boats.
Wet? Dry? Efficient? Solid? Ride?, anything would be helpful. thanks Joe


Mako Madness
10-19-2006, 03:53 PM
Japaneese design. ;?

bajadan
10-19-2006, 04:07 PM
True Pangas originated to be a low cost, efficient means for underveloped countries to saltwater commercial fish. They are very solid and come in many sizes, however, lack much in the way of design or finish. They are a wet ride and tiller models will pound in rough water. Not sure how adding extra weight, like center consul, work to change the ride, however, now you will need more HP to push the boat and efficiency goes down. To me, making them fancy center consul models is like putting skirts on a hog. Pangas are best left as a good, simple, light, tiller fish killing machine that will run on pennies of gas and get you home in rough seas.

I have alway wanted an 18' Panga with a tiller 40HP 4 stroke. Perfect bay boat.


afry
10-19-2006, 04:17 PM
My experience is ones built and used in Baja, they are wet and roll a lot while drifting due to the narrow beam.

However very efficient, very solid (withstand a lifetime of beaching) and ride pretty smooth.

No two Panga builders are alike so do your homework. They are not so cheap anymore either.

afry
10-19-2006, 04:20 PM
Perfect bay boat.

Careful, some require a lot of water to float compared to a bay boat or cat.

bajadan
10-19-2006, 04:57 PM
There are a few low sided pangas and yes each factory makes a different boat, however, the majority are built to carry a large amount of weight and handle rough water. I have been in many 22' Pangas with 55HP tiller motors carrying 1000# to 2000# of cleaned giant squid in the holds(between the seats), on the sea of Cortez side. On the Pacific side, many 22' pangas commerical dive for lobster and abalone. Also run nets for fish and shrimp with them. An 18' Panga would work fine up here in our NW bays. Not sure about your bays back east.

32blackfin
10-19-2006, 05:15 PM
The ones I've been in could survive nuclear war. We fish and dive off of them down in Playa del Carmen, and they are tough as hell and their captains beat the crap out of them, run them up on the beach at high speed, slam dive tanks around, and so on. A rebuild is a new coat paint, applied with a broom of course.

fish factory
10-19-2006, 05:37 PM
Yamaha design :thumbsup:

im412
10-19-2006, 08:16 PM
better to search panga here and at outdoors best
plenty of reading ..remember there are half a dozen brands and size from 14-45 ft
if you have a specific question ..i'm sure someone will have an opinion :thumbsup:

nothing beats doing a ride test ...dont think you'll be disappointed or wasting your time

im412
10-21-2006, 06:50 PM
how is your reading going...
did you see how they were good enough to stay upright for 3 mexicans
that drifted the high seas for 9 months in their 25 fter
supose to be the longest recorded survial at sea ;?

edsmith03
10-21-2006, 07:37 PM
Your question is a very vague one... There are thousands of panga style boats around the world, and comparing an 18' tiller-model panga made in Mexico to one of the "americanized" pangas (like mine, for example) is night and day...

I have a 2005 26' Angler panga with the full transom and bracketed twin 90 HP Mercury Optimax motors. It is very dry, very efficient (almost 3 mpg at cruise), is stable at drift (more stable than similar length traditional deep v boats), and costs about 1/3 of a new 27' Contender :) That was the biggest selling point for me......

Down sides are somewhat low gunnels (I'm 6-03, and they come to the top of my knees at the transom - but I'd rather have them at the middle of my thighs), and an overall lack of storage space (Though, there are lots of "un-tapped" spaces in the boat that can be cut into, as sold it has very little storage space). Other than that, I absolutely love my boat. I've done A LOT to her, though, to make her perfect for my needs....

Best advice I got when I was looking at pangas was not to believe a word anyone says about them until you go on a sea trial... I didn't believe anything I was reading, but was completely sold after a sea trial...

im412
10-21-2006, 08:11 PM
ed

have you considered adding a padded rail that comes to mid thigh

i agree, it is nice to have something to brace against or hang onto when it gets snotty



i havent seen pics of rails being used on your boats over there yet

mole2
10-21-2006, 08:35 PM
Arlon is our resident Panga expert...but I haven't seen him on in quite a while. I hope he didn't get chased away by some of the, ahem, "Experts" that don't like Pangas. I'm sure if he sees your post he'll chime in.

YankeeBoater
10-21-2006, 08:43 PM
One point to note - Panga uses the 'long/skinny' design philosophy as opposed to the increasingly extreme 'short/fat' philosophy designs... my point is that you shouldn't compare boats of equal length; roughly speaking, you should compare boats of equal area - multiply the length * beam of the short/fats you like and then find the Panga with the most similar footprint area - that's the analogous boat. Then take them both for a seatrial.

edsmith03
10-21-2006, 08:43 PM
have you considered adding a padded rail that comes to mid thigh

I've never seen padded rails, but they would probably be in the way of my rod holders.. The gunnels aren't so low that they're a problem, I would just prefer for them to be higher if I had the choice...

bajadan
10-21-2006, 09:22 PM
Pangas are great boats if used as intended. Lets face it, how many 22' boats will run wot in rough water, wave top to wave top, that are powered by only a 55hp motor???

Take that same panga and try to make a super panga out of it by going from tiller to center consul and you will need at least 2 to 3 times the hp to get around.

Also, for the same price of a super panga, there are many good boats out there with better designs and finish.

Trouble is, not many boaters in our country will settle for a tiller boat.

im412
10-21-2006, 09:23 PM
i've got a back bait board that i brace against..
being over 50..i dont have the ballance i use to have :(

good point yankee..
go up a size in length for more deck and even better seakeeping

im412
10-21-2006, 09:25 PM
bajadan

the 22' CC does 30mph with a 70hp....not real bad stats ;?

i've seen new 30ft panga cc hulls for $15,000 ...22' for $7,500..sounds ok for the money

as to design, i thought the panga delta pad hull was being incorporated into many hi-performance boats

bajadan
10-21-2006, 10:17 PM
Do not get me wrong, I spent two years fishing in Mexico on and around pangas and think they are a great boat. I just question the logic of a CC panga.

Never saw any 22' CC panga with 70HP going 30 mph. The picture of the panga in your post looks like it has a 100 HP motor.

Any of the cheap pangas you mention would have very low sides and light hulll strength. They are lake boats and should stay there, they are not the heavy duty, high sided ocean going pangas.

Never heard of any high performance boat using a panga hull design. Sorry, this sounds like salesmen talk to me.

im412
10-21-2006, 11:16 PM
no problems...i just have a different view point..
we are all comming at it from our own different perspective of what makes a good boat
where commercial fishing is a priority a tiller steer makes sense to keep the decks clear for working nets etc
a cc would only be in the way

i think the logic of a cc is because thats what people want and it sounds better than being called an open boat

the pic is off our aussie website of one underway
mine has a 70hp and does 31mph..andros's 22' is reportably doing 30mph with a 70hp too

as to being lowsided, light hulls and only suited to a lake, they are a jap fishing boat design that are used around the world as a prefered sea hull
i think it was a 25ft eduardono that the 3 mexicans drifted the high seas for 9mths..nearly making it to australia

i think if you accept that delta pads originated in asia and google "delta pad" hull
you will find quite a few including fountain, baja, hateras and most jet boats that have taken on the delta pad

cheers jack

edsmith03
10-22-2006, 09:26 AM
You're right, there is a difference between a traditional panga boat, and a boat like mine, that I refer to as a "panga-style" boat. The hull follows traditional panga style lines, but it's CERTAINY a far stretch from a tiller-model beach panga in Mexico..

Brand new, my boat with twin 115 hp motors, motor bracket, full transom, t-top, upgraded leaning post with livewell, and aluminum trailer etc. etc. runs for about $45k. Find me a traditional 26' boat that rides comparably and is that price, and I'll be amazed...

bajadan
10-22-2006, 12:48 PM
If you can go 31 mph with a 70 hp motor in a 22'cc panga, than it has to be an ultra-light version of a panga. Installing CC, decking, and built in fuel tanks adds a lot of weight.

There was a time when I was going to have an ocean going CC panga manufactured for me. I visited 3 panga factories with my plans and talked to 2 other factories very seriously. What it came down to was by the time they built the boat that I felt was safe and had the features that I wanted, for just a few $ more I could have a US manufactured boat built for me that had much better quality. Yes, I could have saved some money, however, I wanted piece of mind knowing what was under me. You would understand what I mean by this if you every have a chance to visit a panga factory. Yes, you can put a 26' panga rig together for $45,000, however, not the boat I would go 50 miles off shore with chasing Tuna. That panga would cost a lot more.

By the way, the story about the 3 Mexicans that spent 9 months at sea in a panga is believed to be false. This story is believed to be a cover for the drug trade and where these 3 guys really spent their time. Not that this story has anything to do with the topic other than to point out that they were in a heavy duty, high sided ocean going panga. Not a light weight, lake version.

Is your hull made in Columbia then rigged in Maimi??? Sounds like you are getting most of your sales pitch from this company. I read their website and and find many of their statements misleading...One example...Dry ride..only in your dreams...

Again, I have nothing against pangas, however, you only get what you pay for. There are many different grades of pangas. Everything from the light weight to the indestructible. Everyone has there own comfort level as to what they feel safe going to sea in. Just trying to let people know that not all pangas are created equal.

edsmith03
10-22-2006, 02:13 PM
I routinely take my "panga-style" boat 50 miles offshore... I've caught marlin, tuna (no huge ones yet), plenty of dolphin (dorado), wahoo, etc. etc. etc. in the 6 months I've had her.... Again, I've ridden (and drove) in just about every major manufactured center console on the market, and I am just as comfortable (even more than some) in my boat out 50 miles as I would be in a 25' Contender or Grady or whatever...

I'm not one of those guys who thinks a panga-style boat is ideal for everyone. I just like my boat, and I really think it's funny when people have opinions about it before even seeing it or riding on it (not saying you're doing that, just making a point). So, as I said before, my panga-style boat is ideal (close to perfect) for my needs.. I wanted a fuel efficient boat that I could run far offshore (for me, that's 40 - 50 miles) in 3 - 4 foot seas and not worry. I found that in my boat....

And my boat is made entirely in the USA (Miami, actually), and as far as it being dry, any time you're in the area (the rougher the weather the better) and would like to take a ride, just drop me an e-mail. I can confidently say my boat is just as dry as any other traditional center console on the market between 25 and 30 feet, and in a lot of cases, it's a drier ride that many of those boats...


I've attached a few pictures of my boat. Needless to say, it's much different than a "traditional" bare bones panga...

Brand new:

http://us.a2.yahoofs.com/groups/g_16720083/8839/__sr_/8965.jpg?grQh.OFB369E_v_m

Console after some upgrades (smartcraft gauges, new controls, radar display in starboard box under the top, etc.), only thing missing is the Lowrance LCX-111c (it goes in the bracket on the top of the console).

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c16/edsmith03/IMG_3837_edited.jpg


And the boat in the driveway:

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c16/edsmith03/IMG_3834_edited.jpg

coores14
10-22-2006, 02:45 PM
edsmith03, do you have any more pics of the interior? perhaps some more shots of the console and/or shots of any modifications done for storage and what not?

bajadan
10-22-2006, 03:33 PM
Edsmith,

Thank you for the pictures. I must admit, I have never seen, or been on, any panga with the hull modifications that yours has. Maybe your 26' panga is dry in 3-4' seas.

Thank you for the offer to take a test ride, however, I live 3,000+ miles away in Washington State. The next time I visit my sister in Jacksonville I would like to take a ride. Also, 3-4' seas off of our Pacific NW coast would be a very good day for us. We typically boat up to 10' combined seas. 10' is the point we stay home. 3-4' is a better than average day for us. So our boat requirments may be different than yours.

I would be interested in information on your "all American" made panga. I heard pangas were rigged in Miami, never knew thay had a hull factory there. Can you send me the info how to contact them. I am interested in an 18' bay/Columbia River panga.

Like I said, I have nothing against pangas. Just the salemen overhyped information.

Dan

mastcaptjim
10-22-2006, 03:45 PM
A friend of mine is a distributor for the Pangas. It is a very stable boat. Narrow beam but quite a flair in the bow. We fished a tourney in 3 to 4 footers and it was stable. They are used quite a lot in Costa Rica for big game inshore fishing.

edsmith03
10-22-2006, 04:43 PM
edsmith03, do you have any more pics of the interior? perhaps some more shots of the console and/or shots of any modifications done for storage and what not?

Here's one of the console:

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f365/123hhwkkw/IMG_3838_edited.jpg

I really haven't done any modifications to my boat yet for extra storage. The boat has a decent amount in the console (holds the batteries on my boat, tool box, oversized dry box, and still has room for a few duffle bags), there's room in an insulated front cooler under the seat on the front of the console, and there's the anchor locker (not very big, but big enough for my 300 feet of rode and anchor along with throwable pfd, manual bilge pump and a few other little things). I keep my PFDs in a T-bag under the T-top. I am planning on creating opening "hatches" out of starboard and cutting access holes in the forward seats so they will match the anchor locker cover... That will add additional storage for trips to bimini and such....

But, other angler panga owners have cut access hatches into various places in the deck... Here's an example of one boat from the yahoo group:

http://us.a2.yahoofs.com/groups/g_16720083/895f/__sr_/1a83.jpg?grg9APFBpw0p0Wrc

These are the front seats I was talking about... Dave used a standard hatch for access into his, but I want mine to match the anchor locker cover...

http://us.a2.yahoofs.com/groups/g_16720083/895f/__sr_/26ba.jpg?grg9APFBrMNH0es6

He also installed a large commerical hatch for rear bilge access. My boat has the 109 gallon tank, so I don't have enough room back there to justify this...

http://us.a2.yahoofs.com/groups/g_16720083/895f/__sr_/21e2.jpg?grg9APFBzdYz02NC

Another example of hatches cut into the sides of the forward seats from another user on the yahoo forum. In this picture you can see the anchor locker cover too...

http://us.a2.yahoofs.com/groups/g_16720083/81b3/__sr_/14bc.jpg?grg9APFBLkEn5D1V

Anyway, there's a LOT of information available on the panga forum on yahoo... The address is:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/panga_style_boats/

Hope that helps.

Bullshipper
10-22-2006, 04:45 PM
edsmith03 - 10/22/2006 9:26 AM

You're right, there is a difference between a traditional panga boat, and a boat like mine, that I refer to as a "panga-style" boat. The hull follows traditional panga style lines, but it's CERTAINY a far stretch from a tiller-model beach panga in Mexico..

Brand new, my boat with twin 115 hp motors, motor bracket, full transom, t-top, upgraded leaning post with livewell, and aluminum trailer etc. etc. runs for about $45k. Find me a traditional 26' boat that rides comparably and is that price, and I'll be amazed...

I looked at these but came to the opposite conclusion, thinking that the Pangler is expensive for what you get, and not inexpensive as their literature suggests.

The boat with the bracket is 26' 5".
Take 2.5 feet off for the bracket and I get 24' for the hull.
factor a 7'7" wide beam divided by 8.5 feet= 89% of the area of a standard width hull
89% x 23 feet of length = same area as a 21 boat.

And I still look at it as an Angler product, so $40-45K and a low resale turnaround still didn't strike me as such a good deal comparing it to boats like a Cape Horn 21, Sailfish 21, etc.

The Pangler is undoubtedly the best panga out there, but a panga is still a panga.

edsmith03
10-22-2006, 04:58 PM
I would be interested in information on your "all American" made panga. I heard pangas were rigged in Miami, never knew thay had a hull factory there. Can you send me the info how to contact them. I am interested in an 18' bay/Columbia River panga.


My boat is made by Angler in Miami. Despite a lot of people disliking Angler, I have to say the difference between the Angler Panga (affectionately dubbed the "Pangler" by many), and the rest of their boats is significant.... The hulls were originally called "MercPangas" because Mercury marine owns the hull mold. Through a partnership with Angler, Mercury allowed them to build the boats from the hull, with the caveat that they must only rig them with Mercury motors. They make them with the Mercruiser 1.7 liter diesel i/o, in a cut transom model with single outboards (up to 225 hp) or like mine with the full transom and motor bracket with either single or twin outboards. My boat was the first one they made with the full transom and bracket configuration... My boat is the one used in the advertisment pictures online and in the print catalogs.. I got mine as a demo with 80 hours on her, otherwise I would have rigged it with 115 hp Mercury Optimaxs... The added HP and no additional weight (they weigh the same as the 90 hp models) would have certainly been beneficial...

There is a big difference between my boat and the "panga.com" boats that are made in Mexico and rigged in Miami... I looked at them before I bought my boat and was not very impressed at all. I've heard they've made some changes since then (and now they're introducing models with a full liner), so things might change... Also, since I bought my boat, Andros boat works has created a 26' Panga that looks real nice as well..

My boat came with a 40 gallon live-well built into the leaning post, full sized fiberglass t-top, dual axle aluminum trailer, and pretty much no other options. I added everything else (from rod holders to electronics) myself. I have made a few modifications to the self-bailing drains, added backup bilge pumps, etc. etc. When I first bought her, I was VERY disappointed at the quality of the wiring job that Angler did at the factory. Everything was done correctly, but was just sloppy. I have since practically re-wired everything and cleaned everything up quite a bit. I still have a lot of projects to do, but nothing major is left...

Anyway, enough babbling, here's the link to the Angler site:

http://www.anglerboats.com/models/index.php?model=26panga

Bullshipper
10-22-2006, 05:14 PM
Your's is the best looking one I have seen, and the radar tops her off.

:thumbsup:

edsmith03
10-22-2006, 05:18 PM
I looked at these but came to the opposite conclusion, thinking that the Pangler is expensive for what you get, and not inexpensive as their literature suggests.

The boat with the bracket is 26' 5".
Take 2.5 feet off for the bracket and I get 24' for the hull.
factor a 7'7" wide beam divided by 8.5 feet= 89% of the area of a standard width hull
89% x 23 feet of length = same area as a 21 boat.

And I still look at it as an Angler product, so $40-45K and a low resale turnaround still didn't strike me as such a good deal comparing it to boats like a Cape Horn 21, Sailfish 21, etc.


The Angler panga is 26'5" WITHOUT the bracket. From the nose of my boat to the back of the motors is just shy of 31 feet (I just measured).... So, your calculation is a bit off... The 7'7" beam is a bit deceiving as well, because with thinner gunnels, you gain a bit more floor space. At the transom, the INSIDE of the gunnels measure 81.5" apart. For comparison, my buddy has a 26' Paramount (8 foot beam) and maybe 2 inches more space overall inside gunnel to gunnel (I don't know for sure because I haven't measured, but from laying down in the back of each boat, I know theres not much more room at all in the Paramount)...

The other difference is the ride comparison between the 26' Angler panga and a 21 foot boat. It's not even close to comparison... For that reason, I don't think you can look at a comparison between the boats in terms of "square footage" because there's a lot more to it than that...

I do understand what you're saying though. Believe me, I was a little apprehensive about buying an Angler. My last boat was a Boston Whaler, and all of my buddies have other "top end" boats as well. However, after 6 months, I couldn't be happier with my boat (but I did take the "Angler" stickers off the back :)). Most of my buddies won't admit it, but it's nice running out 40+ miles with them, and filling up at the same filling station at the end of the day... I love having to wait for them to finish fueling while I just smile... I like that part, especially. :)

My opinion is, it would be hard to find a better value for what -I- wanted out of my boat. For me, it was the best (and most economical) choice out there to do what I want to do... That's all we can ask for in a boat, in my opinion.

edsmith03
10-22-2006, 05:23 PM
Bullshipper - 10/22/2006 5:14 PM

Your's is the best looking one I have seen, and the radar tops her off.

:thumbsup:

Thanks! I've put A LOT of work (and money) into my boat to make it "near perfect" for my needs...

Also, I never realized how useful radar is until I installed mine... After reading (and re-reading a few times) Radar for Mariners, I've finally begun to understand how to use it properly, and actually found my first pod of birds with it a few weeks ago... I can't WAIT for yellow fin tuna season next spring........

:thumbsup:

Paul Barnard
10-22-2006, 05:33 PM
Bullshipper - 10/22/2006 4:45 PM

edsmith03 - 10/22/2006 9:26 AM

You're right, there is a difference between a traditional panga boat, and a boat like mine, that I refer to as a "panga-style" boat. The hull follows traditional panga style lines, but it's CERTAINY a far stretch from a tiller-model beach panga in Mexico..

Brand new, my boat with twin 115 hp motors, motor bracket, full transom, t-top, upgraded leaning post with livewell, and aluminum trailer etc. etc. runs for about $45k. Find me a traditional 26' boat that rides comparably and is that price, and I'll be amazed...

I looked at these but came to the opposite conclusion, thinking that the Pangler is expensive for what you get, and not inexpensive as their literature suggests.

The boat with the bracket is 26' 5".
Take 2.5 feet off for the bracket and I get 24' for the hull.
factor a 7'7" wide beam divided by 8.5 feet= 89% of the area of a standard width hull
89% x 23 feet of length = same area as a 21 boat.

And I still look at it as an Angler product, so $40-45K and a low resale turnaround still didn't strike me as such a good deal comparing it to boats like a Cape Horn 21, Sailfish 21, etc.

The Pangler is undoubtedly the best panga out there, but a panga is still a panga.





How much of that area (deck space) is being used at any given time while underway. After a point the function of increased size becomes a safety and comfort versus space issue.

im412
10-22-2006, 07:09 PM
bajadan - 10/22/2006 3:33 PMEdsmith,Thank you for the pictures. I must admit, I have never seen, or been on, any panga with the hull modifications that yours has. Maybe your 26' panga is dry in 3-4' seas. Thank you for the offer to take a test ride, however, I live 3,000+ miles away in Washington State. The next time I visit my sister in Jacksonville I would like to take a ride. Also, 3-4' seas off of our Pacific NW coast would be a very good day for us. We typically boat up to 10' combined seas. 10' is the point we stay home. 3-4' is a better than average day for us. So our boat requirments may be different than yours. I would be interested in information on your "all American" made panga. I heard pangas were rigged in Miami, never knew thay had a hull factory there. Can you send me the info how to contact them. I am interested in an 18' bay/Columbia River panga. Like I said, I have nothing against pangas. Just the salemen overhyped information. Dan

i think he means GOM 3-4' bay chop with no swells combined....
like you, down here we think nothing of going out in 9ft swells...its the size combined wind waves that matter
got to admit the yank builders are doing good thing with the panga :thumbsup:

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p95/trponhunter/andros26finished002.jpg

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p95/trponhunter/andros26finished004.jpg

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p95/trponhunter/andros26finished008.jpg

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p95/trponhunter/andros26finished001.jpg

J Land
10-22-2006, 07:38 PM
I read a lot of comments about the narrow beam on Pangas as if that was a fault. I have fished on many Pangas in Mexico and never felt they were too narrow for the fishing I was doing. In fact, many U.S. built boats are over wide for the best performance and ride. I understand the perfectly designed boat will have a beam to width ratio of one to three. That is, a twenty-four foot boat will have a beam of eight feet. It seems common in today's world to see twenty and twenty-one foot boats with an eight foot beam.

Based on what I have read of boat design, a twenty-six foot Panga would have a beam of eight point six feet. Pangas are not far off that mark. I know many of you will disagree, and that is fine, just do a little resarch and/or ride in a Panga before making comments about their poor design.

BTW, I do not own a Panga, I own a twenty-one foot Parker with an eight foot beam.

Bullshipper
10-22-2006, 08:10 PM
J Land - 10/22/2006 7:38 PM

I read a lot of comments about the narrow beam on Pangas as if that was a fault. I have fished on many Pangas in Mexico and never felt they were too narrow for the fishing I was doing. In fact, many U.S. built boats are over wide for the best performance and ride. I understand the perfectly designed boat will have a beam to width ratio of one to three. That is, a twenty-four foot boat will have a beam of eight feet. It seems common in today's world to see twenty and twenty-one foot boats with an eight foot beam.

Based on what I have read of boat design, a twenty-six foot Panga would have a beam of eight point six feet. Pangas are not far off that mark. I know many of you will disagree, and that is fine, just do a little resarch and/or ride in a Panga before making comments about their poor design.

BTW, I do not own a Panga, I own a twenty-one foot Parker with an eight foot beam.

There are pangas and panglers.

Mexican pangas used to all be the boa canoe style with a narrower transom to save power. These are very tippy, and were designed to be with their low sides and ability to tip one side down easily as you pull a net, making it easier to pull the net in. Low sides= wet rides in the wind.

Most recently you have the newer Baja Boggie design with the wide transoms that are more stable.

But, none of these boats has more than 15 degrees of deadrise (most have 8-12), so unless its glassy, they give you a rough ride, even when you sit on the motor cover and let the bow bounce up and down like a karate chop trying to part and calm the on coming wave.

So going narrow and keeping the bottom flat translates into needing a long boat to carry weight that uses little power, but its one that is really designed to to go out a couple of miles in glassy conditions, set a net, and then skedadle home before the wind comes up, as cold beer is usually a strong magnet in the desert starting at high noon amongst fishermen in these parts.

So after 30 years of panga fishing I want the opposite,a cat, as I like more side to side stability, a smoother ride so I can go a long ways out and fish in the afternoon.

Mexican pangas are cheap, they water log fast, need constant reglassing, have no flotation or built in gas tanks, gunnels for rod holders, etc, etc. So like I said, there are pangas and panglers.

Hooked Up
10-22-2006, 08:19 PM
I got a 25 foot Eduardono panga made in Colombia. Mine has no liner or anything. I have a full teak floor on mine, removable gas tanks, and run it with twin 40 Yamahas. I have a removable t-top as well. I fish out of PR where the offshore weather conditions are always challenging. I have owned Albemarles and Shamrocks over the past 10 years. I realize that when I bought this boat, I would not be worried about finish or anything like that. What I do know is that this boats handle offshore conditions increadibly well, the maintenance is negligible and it costs me 10-12 gallons to go troll all day. I get home and spray her with fresh water and Im done. Basically, this boat is maintenance free and takes me offshore in relative comfort. Its a simple boat. Thats what I needed on a boat. I did not care for an expensive high maintenance boat anymore.

I work as a CBP pilot down here in the Caribbean and I have seen this same type hulls running from South America loaded with kilos of coke in the worst offshore weather that I have ever seen. To me, that was the test of how the boat would handle offshore weather. Thats how I ended up buying one of these.

im412
10-22-2006, 11:01 PM
the panga has to be the most misperceived boat on the American market ;?

they range in size from 14-45 ft long

go from virtually no deadrise to pangamarine's 22 degrees deadrise

have a length to beam ratio from 5:1 to 3.5:1

come as a rough as guts finish to very high end equal to any boat

and they are all called a panga...i cant see the confusion
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

arlon
10-26-2006, 08:40 PM
bajadan - 10/21/2006 9:17 PM

Do not get me wrong, I spent two years fishing in Mexico on and around pangas and think they are a great boat. I just question the logic of a CC panga.

Never saw any 22' CC panga with 70HP going 30 mph. The picture of the panga in your post looks like it has a 100 HP motor.

Any of the cheap pangas you mention would have very low sides and light hulll strength. They are lake boats and should stay there, they are not the heavy duty, high sided ocean going pangas.

Never heard of any high performance boat using a panga hull design. Sorry, this sounds like salesmen talk to me.

Go look at a "velocity" pad hull performance boat, then look at the bottom of anglers panga. VERY similar. Look at the length/width ratio of a 26 scarab sport and compare it to anglers panga.. Same.. Sorry, but below the waterline of an angler panga and some performance hulls is quite similar. Pangler has a lot sharper entry and bow steers more but it's also an amazingly smooth ride in the chop.

As for the early comment about japanese design, who designed the car you drive? Well for 90% of us it was a Japanese design (even if it was made here).

Pangas are working folks boats, not status symbols. I don't like paying for parsley either..

As to the earlier comment about them using more water than a "bay" boat or cat? You are off your rocker. My 26 footer would float in less than a foot and run in not a lot more and it was a diesel I/O.. Pangas run very shallow, as shallow as any "bay" boat (flats boats excluded). Of course i wouldn't want to take most flats or bay boats out 100 miles into the gulf either..

For their intended purpose (utility and economy) show me something that performs better for the same money and keeps you dry while you are at it..

Before questionng the logic, maybe you ought to step inside one on a crappy windy choppy day and go for a ride across the flats and bars into the open gulf..

Don't get on here much anymore, banned us from all forums at work. We're actually working these days.. Go figure. Arlon

Bullshipper
10-26-2006, 10:28 PM
arlon - 10/26/2006 8:40 PM

For their intended purpose (utility and economy) show me something that performs better for the same money and keeps you dry while you are at it.. Arlon


Ok, you asked for it, here is a 40' hull that weighs 12,000 lbs, carries over 15 passengers, has twin 115's and does 29 knots. It also handles the chop pretty well.

http://www.goldcoastyachts.com/39wp.htm

im412
10-26-2006, 11:57 PM
bullshipper
i am being serious when i say
that 230hp water taxi is a nice wave pearcing displacement cat :thumbsup:
40'overall with a 25' deck
glasses over plank and ply wood does make a nice efficient hull
its a shame the cat builders arent going down this path for offshore, i'm all for wave pearcers
but i think arlon means compare apples and apples,


http://www.goldcoastyachts.com/images/39wp.jpg

Bullshipper
10-27-2006, 12:20 AM
Afraid of the compitition huh? I know, no fair comparing a 3rd world monohull to a rastafarean ganga inspired catamaran design. :grin:

im412
10-27-2006, 12:47 AM
i didnt know japan was 3rd world or are you just being silly :grin:
yamaha designed them on jap fishing boats and initally made them all in japan
if you take an american boat to the 3rd world...does it become a 3rd world boat?

dont think many designers will disagree that the rastafarean ganga inspired wave pearcing cat
is using sound and better design principals

shame they charge by the foot in marinas or you could have decent designed boats too http://photobucket.com/albums/a306/kosams/Webfishingclub/lipsrsealed.gif

im412
10-27-2006, 01:50 AM
just having a look at their 45fter..this seems a better hull for offshore
the price would be the same as a 45ft panga ...wouldnt it?

http://www.goldcoastyachts.com/images/2wp45.jpg

http://www.goldcoastyachts.com/images/wp45.jpg

Kerry
10-27-2006, 07:37 AM
You know! one of these days in the not too distant future ol' bullshipper is going to have to realize their is a world beyond the US and a world that has been thinking outside the square for even a bit longer than ol' BS would like to realize :)

im412
10-27-2006, 08:36 AM
i liked the way he totally ignored this part of arlons post

Go look at a "velocity" pad hull performance boat, then look at the bottom of anglers panga. VERY similar. Look at the length/width ratio of a 26 scarab sport and compare it to anglers panga..
Same.. Sorry, but below the waterline of an angler panga and some performance hulls is quite similar. Pangler has a lot sharper entry and bow steers more but it's also an amazingly smooth ride in the chop.

As for the early comment about japanese design, who designed the car you drive? Well for 90% of us it was a Japanese design (even if it was made here).
Pangas are working folks boats, not status symbols. I don't like paying for parsley either..

the old panga delta pad is well advanced marine engineering,
you only have to look at the boats that are using it now....the list includes full racing boats, most jet boats
fountain, baja, hateras, wellcraft etc. have discovered the panga delta pad too

Bullshipper
10-27-2006, 08:42 AM
Kerry - 10/27/2006 7:37 AM

You know! one of these days in the not too distant future ol' bullshipper is going to have to realize their is a world beyond the US and a world that has been thinking outside the square for even a bit longer than ol' BS would like to realize :)

This is true Kerry.

But I do have my 3rd degree in International Management, have lived permanently outside the USA for more than 25 years, have travelled to most of the countries of the world worth visiting, carry more than one passport and currently have a sourcing buisness that exports structures and equipment all over the world.

Unfornately, these countries seem to want American designed goods so I respect their decision and go with the flow.

But enough of my reseme, what have you done besides repeatedly inspect the inside of your butt?

Bullshipper
10-27-2006, 08:52 AM
im412 - 10/26/2006 11:57 PM



bullshipper
i am being serious when i say
that 230hp water taxi is a nice wave pearcing displacement cat :thumbsup:
40'overall with a 25' deck
glasses over plank and ply wood does make a nice efficient hull
its a shame the cat builders arent going down this path for offshore,* i'm all for wave pearcers
but i think arlon means compare apples and apples,


http://www.goldcoastyachts.com/images/39wp.jpg

I'm just giving my buddy Arlon a hard time. His panga design is something I like very much, even if it is a mono. But I would choose a wave piercer if I was choosing, but I just can't bring myself to buy soemthing that is useless for fishing and so darn ugly. A conventional catamaran designed in New Zealand is my limit.

The GC boats are made entirely from strip plank single end grain douglas fir strips with west epoxy and they are not cheap. No plywood from what I understand. Incredibly strong, even by commercial standards.

They are not cheap, but if you divide the price x the number of passengers they will carry, and the pangas probably work out to little more dough.

im412
10-27-2006, 09:00 AM
i dont know...you can fit a few people in a panga
this is a 40hp water taxi from the islands north of australiahttp://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a306/kosams/Webfishingclub/hah.gif

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j67/webfishingclub-/lban.jpg

Bullshipper
10-27-2006, 11:43 AM
im412 - 10/27/2006 9:00 AM



i dont know...you can fit a few people in a panga
this is a 40hp water taxi from the islands north of australiahttp://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a306/kosams/Webfishingclub/hah.gif

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j67/webfishingclub-/lban.jpg

These guys would find scads of work in Cuba :grin:

Kerry
10-27-2006, 07:39 PM
Bullshipper - 10/28/2006 12:42 AM

Unfornately, these countries seem to want American designed goods so I respect their decision and go with the flow.



That is except when it comes to Cat design :grin: first you have to design something to pull one's head out of the sand :Q

bajadan
10-27-2006, 07:40 PM
Some of this panga sales talk is getting way out of hand, and I am calling BS..

Yes, I spent a lot of time in pangas and like them, and the new US made pangas look very well built, worth considering, specially with high gas prices. However, the truth needs to come out.

Below is a link to an article that you guys need to read.

It states the first panga molds were designed and built in Latin America, financed by the world bank.

Later, Yamaha formed a partnership with boat builders to sell their motors. I have been to Japan and have not seen a panga there. They may have them, however, with their very high labor cost I doubt many, if any, are actually built there.

As far as saying other boats may have a version of a panga hull, well, this is hard to argue with. With so many versions of panga molds and so many boats some must look alike, however, I would not want to claim my boat had the real original panga hull. Maybe the original panga hull designed in Japan.

Have fun reading.

http://www.southfloridasportfishing.com/prodreviews.cfm?c=v&cn=4&cs=1&n=2779

Bullshipper
10-27-2006, 08:30 PM
bajadan - 10/27/2006 7:40 PM

Some of this panga sales talk is getting way out of hand, and I am calling BS..

Yes, I spent a lot of time in pangas and like them, and the new US made pangas look very well built, worth considering, specially with high gas prices. However, the truth needs to come out.

Below is a link to an article that you guys need to read.

It states the first panga molds were designed and built in Latin America, financed by the world bank.

Later, Yamaha formed a partnership with boat builders to sell their motors. I have been to Japan and have not seen a panga there. They may have them, however, with their very high labor cost I doubt many, if any, are actually built there.

As far as saying other boats may have a version of a panga hull, well, this is hard to argue with. With so many versions of panga molds and so many boats some must look alike, however, I would not want to claim my boat had the real original panga hull. Maybe the original panga hull designed in Japan.

Have fun reading.

http://www.southfloridasportfishing.com/prodreviews.cfm?c=v&cn=4&cs=1&n=2779



Yes this is a repeat on some of the stuff we have heard before, but I do not understand your BS call. Really, if you really want to learn about Panga and Panglers check out the links suggested by Arlon. And yes the are scads of pangas in Japan. big ones, little one, fat ones and skinny ones, so your assumptions about labor costs are wrong.

Bullshipper
10-27-2006, 08:46 PM
Kerry - 10/27/2006 7:39 PM

Bullshipper - 10/28/2006 12:42 AM

Unfornately, these countries seem to want American designed goods so I respect their decision and go with the flow.



That is except when it comes to Cat design :grin: first you have to design something to pull one's head out of the sand :Q

We have been through this before Kerry and the last time I asked you, you gave no response. Again these questions for you, the great master:

What production cat in Austrailia compares favorably in price, ride, performace, warranty, design and looks to our Prowlers, Mooseboats, Maxcats, Worldcats and Glacierbays?

Why do you think Aussies are importing ourhulls, paying shipping and duties without warranty coverage, and reselling them at a profit in your country? Even you can answer this one right?

Fess up, you are really Trouty's much dumber sister in drag, right?

Cheers

YankeeBoater
10-27-2006, 09:32 PM
im412 - 10/27/2006 1:47 AM


dont think many designers will disagree that the rastafarean ganga inspired wave pearcing cat
is using sound and better design principals
Pretty cool, and that was just the bare boat too - look at it fully optioned out! :o :thumbsup:
http://www.thehulltruth.com/photos/get-photo.asp?photoid=21187

bajadan
10-27-2006, 09:48 PM
Bullshipper, I have read all you have suggested many times and all I can do is shake my head in disbelief, and that is why I am calling BS.
The Japanese did not invent the panga. Like many things they borrowed an idea and changed it.

The very first panga built with molded fiberglass was produced in a factory in La Paz Mexico. It was designed by an American named Mac Shroyer. Far more pangas built around the world are based on his design, not the Japanese design. The Mac Shroyer design is the original. So there is a lot of BS going on about the first design. That is why the article is very carefully worded. Reread it. It does not say the Yamaha designed the first panga just that they formed partnerships with boat factories to sell there motors.

Also, all the talk about the original Japanese panga. Are you sure it is the original design that is used today, or were improvements made to the original. If it is an improved model, well it is not an original then is it...The Japanese design pangas have never had any changes made to the hull in 30 years???? Hard to believe.

As far as labor cost in Japan, are you kidding or what. The Japanese worker now makes more than the average USA worker. In Mexico $5.00 a day is a good wage for the average worker.

Bullshipper
10-27-2006, 10:05 PM
bajadan - 10/27/2006 9:48 PM

Bullshipper, I have read all you have suggested many times and all I can do is shake my head in disbelief, and that is why I am calling BS.
The Japanese did not invent the panga. Like many things they borrowed an idea and changed it.

The very first panga built with molded fiberglass was produced in a factory in La Paz Mexico. It was designed by an American named Mac Shroyer. Far more pangas built around the world are based on his design, not the Japanese design. The Mac Shroyer design is the original. So there is a lot of BS going on about the first design. That is why the article is very carefully worded. Reread it. It does not say the Yamaha designed the first panga just that they formed partnerships with boat factories to sell there motors.

Also, all the talk about the original Japanese panga. Are you sure it is the original design that is used today, or were improvements made to the original. If it is an improved model, well it is not an original then is it...The Japanese design pangas have never had any changes made to the hull in 30 years???? Hard to believe.

As far as labor cost in Japan, are you kidding or what. The Japanese worker now makes more than the average USA worker. In Mexico $5.00 a day is a good wage for the average worker.



I currently employ about 200 men and women in Mexico, and $15-$30 dollars a day is the current norm for house servants to welders. Old women sweeping the streets make $5 a day. Whatever, this is about getting our information straight.

I am not saying the Japanese made the first panga, as this, like your La Paz birthplace statement is impossible to verify. I have been to panga yards here in Mexico since I first came in 1958, prior to the start of the world bank, and have seen the evolution of the boa, boogie, pangler and a shipload of other variations produced in San Felipe, Guaymas, Mazatlan, Guadalajara, Manzanillo, La Paz, Tampico, Veracruz and some of the more recent imports from Columbia, and Venezuela.

But I am sure that this is just scratching the surface of what the panga aficionados have put together and this collective knowledge dwarfs my 28 years of permanent residency in Mexico, and what a young sportswriter put together for a 2 page article in a fishing rag.

Bullshipper
10-27-2006, 10:08 PM
YankeeBoater - 10/27/2006 9:32 PM

im412 - 10/27/2006 1:47 AM


dont think many designers will disagree that the rastafarean ganga inspired wave pearcing cat
is using sound and better design principals
Pretty cool, and that was just the bare boat too - look at it fully optioned out! :o :thumbsup:
http://www.thehulltruth.com/photos/get-photo.asp?photoid=21187



Nice cat, mon, but that joint sure is punny.

slickster
10-27-2006, 10:42 PM
What was this thread all about again....who "invented" the panga?...I don't know nor really care, probably impossible to absolutely verfiy anyway....I went to the local pange dealer, panga.com, and checked out the 22/26...the 22 basic was just that, basic, e-tec 90, CC, a seat....23K on a trailer....the deluxe was 27-28K, the 26 pushed 36-40K, 225hp single, for the money my choice is still the caracal 18.5 instead of the 22, the 26 looks impressive, nicely finished, haven't done a sea trial yet....the wave piercing hull is a great idea, how strong are the spikey things?....Mick

bajadan
10-27-2006, 10:42 PM
Bullshhipper,

If you employ 200 workers in Mexico, then you truly have my sympathy. I am well aware of what foreigners must go through to run a business in Mexico. So tell me what the National minimum wage is now? Last I heard it was $3.50 per day. In the area I spent 2 years $10.00 a day was a big wage, $5.00 was average.

Not sure why you are taking such an defensive posture to my calling the information in the panga brochures BS. Unless you are responsible for the misleading information.

If you saw pangas in Mexico in 1958, that would predate the first pangas from a Japanese design by about 10 years. So the Japanese did not design the first panga.

bajadan
10-27-2006, 10:54 PM
slickster - 10/27/2006 10:42 PM

What was this thread all about again....who "invented" the panga?...I don't know nor really care, probably impossible to absolutely verfiy anyway....I went to the local pange dealer, panga.com, and checked out the 22/26...the 22 basic was just that, basic, e-tec 90, CC, a seat....23K on a trailer....the deluxe was 27-28K, the 26 pushed 36-40K, 225hp single, for the money my choice is still the caracal 18.5 instead of the 22, the 26 looks impressive, nicely finished, haven't done a sea trial yet....the wave piercing hull is a great idea, how strong are the spikey things?....Mick


Point well taken slickster, sorry for the hi-jack. The point I was trying to make is even though I would really like to own a panga and think they are a great boat, after reading the brochures, I would never do business with those people. Too much hype and oversell for my taste. Not saying anyone else should not do business with them.

slickster
10-27-2006, 11:02 PM
Yeah, there is alot of hype and claims of high mpg with rough water capability, they have increased in price to the point where they are competing with a much larger section of the industry, once upon a time they were a stout, simple boat at rock bottom prices, definitely filled a niche in the market, not now, sorta what Twin Vee has/is doing....Mick

im412
10-27-2006, 11:48 PM
bajadan....you are entitled to your opinions, as everyone is,
however the facts should be right
yamaha stole to design off japanes traditional timber surf-fishing boats that have been used for centuries in japan, asia and migrated through asia pacific
then they were taken by the spanish asian colonies to mexico and south america

as to your statements
[1]If you can go 31 mph with a 70 hp motor in a 22'cc panga, than it has to be an
[2] ultra-light version of a panga. Installing CC, decking, and built in fuel tanks adds a lot of weight.......Any of the cheap pangas you mention would have very low sides and light hulll strength. [3]They are lake boats and should stay there, they are not the heavy duty, high sided ocean going pangas.

this statement is wrong

[1] you question the truth of a 70hp 22' @ 30mph............ yes, it is hard to believe how efficient the hull is..no wonder it is used around the world
[2]ultra-light version.................no it is the commercial standard heavy duty solid glass hull..
the hull strength has never been questioned in 30 odd years

they are a low sided boat compared to what is desired today by the buying public,it is only the western builders that have modified them with higher sides....to keep the punters happy..give them what they want ..as any business would

[3] They are lake boats and should stay there....pangas are renowned for their seakeeping..best thing about them

your 22' are 1400 Lbs.- 1600lbs which standard and isnt light for a 4:1 open boat
andros said out of his own mouth that his 22' ran about 30mph with a 70hp and 50mph with a 150hp

The boat with the bracket is 26' 5".Take 2.5 feet off for the bracket and I get 24' for the hull.
no the angler is 26' plus bracket i think..the angler guys will confirm

if you read the aussie boat reviews...we invented the panga..i think everyone claims ownership of it
http://www.southfloridasportfishing.com/prodreviews.cfm?c=v&cn=4&cs=1&n=27791.It states the first panga molds were designed and built in Latin America, financed by the world bank. 2.Later, Yamaha formed a partnership with boat builders to sell their motors. I have been to Japan and have not seen a panga there. They may have them, however, with their very high labor cost I doubt many, if any, are actually built there.3.As far as saying other boats may have a version of a panga hull, well, this is hard to argue with. With so many versions of panga molds and so many boats some must look alike, however, I would not want to claim my boat had the real original panga hull. Maybe the original panga hull designed in Japan.4. Never heard of any high performance boat using a panga hull design. Sorry, this sounds like salesmen talk to me.
1. no it states...Molds were built and distributed throughout Latin America and other areas of the world

2. yes yamaha did license local builders from all over the world to build there boats,
when in japan, you didnt look hard enough..they are every where and yes they still build them there

3.not saying they have a version of the panga hull, i'm saying the panga delta pad has been borrowed for many high performance boatsit is a fact that the panga delta pad is an asian design, which has their history going back 100's of years there and yes the panga we see today around the worlds is a yamaha design japanese fishing boat

4.google "delta pad" hull you can add "high performance" to filter out the others if you wantsalesman talk?...never sold a panga in my life and i am in no builders corner if you google jack412/im412 and yamaha you will see, i'm not 100% on the US panga designs. they are modifying for speed IMHOnor am i associated to yamaha ..i run a johnson

yamaha have split the panga into 2 basic types...the original 5:1 L/B water line ratio

http://www.marinews.com/details.php?recordid=506

then later..the 4:1 L/B water line ratio boatwhich is being used and modified by pangamarine panga,com and andros as the major builders in the states
they are also the ones we use in australia
both types are still in production today and widely available

im412
10-28-2006, 12:30 AM
guys there is about $2000 - $3000 worth of glass and resin in any 30ft boat top end included
if you think the hull is of more value coming out of one mould compared to another..thats your call

i can guarantee that the panga dealers and builders will charge as much as they can get away with
just like all the other builders and dealers
if there is a waiting list..ya charge more
if ya looking for orders...ya charge less
its not rocket science

the saving grace of a panga is,,if they get too silly, ya can import ya own from columbia :thumbsup:

im412
10-28-2006, 12:43 AM
slickster - 10/27/2006 11:02 PMYeah, there is alot of hype and claims of high mpg with rough water capability, ...Mick

mick ..i take it you havent been on a panga test ride either...

its not hard to pick the ones that havent :rofl:

im412
10-28-2006, 12:52 AM
try again,,there is a glitch in the edit function on THT and you loose the link

yamaha have split the panga into 2 basic types...the original 5:1 L/B water line ratio

http://www.marinews.com/details.php?recordid=506

then later..the 4:1 L/B water line ratio boatwhich is being used and modified by pangamarine panga,com and andros as the major builders in the states
they are also the ones we use in australia
both types are still in production today and widely available

bajadan
10-28-2006, 01:04 AM
im412

Your talk does not walk with me. Saw too many high sided HD 18' & 22' pangas converted into CC that had a hard time getting up on plane. So something has to go, like some weight and making it a light weight model, or adding a whole lot of HP, or your full of BS.

And you do not know squat about the history of pangas. PURE BS!!!! Your claim this design goes back 100s of years. was it carved out of logs or what???

About the delta pad design, is this the same hull designed by Harry Schoell and licensed to Yamaha?

You need to recheck your facts. MUCHO BS!!!!!

im412
10-28-2006, 01:10 AM
bajadan....got the links, i would like to see the yamaha panga that has trouble getting on the plane?

and no they werent originally built out of logs...they were originally built out of planks from logs :thumbsup:

glass has only been a recent building material and the history of the panga goes well beyond that

i have met your sort before on a forum...
if you support what you say with a link..i will answer with a link to the ifo i post
otherwise,i will STFU and let you ramble, dropping in on occasion when you get too far off track

im412
10-28-2006, 01:46 AM
here is a link to support the timber history and western side height and being built in japan,,,
sing out if you want more :thumbsup:

http://www.marinews.com/details.php?recordid=318


Like the parent company these longboats are as Japanese as a plate of Sushi.The UB longboats are based upon traditional Japanese fishing craft which have evolved over hundred of years in the typhoon-infested waters of the Nippon coast. Naturally the fibreglass models are a little different, but the good sea-worthy qualities of the boats are retained in the Yamaha fibreglass version.Yamaha had built thousands of these longboats in Japan before they were introduced here to meet the demands of commercial users.

one of us[ world / U.S. boating community] will send an email to yamaha to get the right info from the horses mouth ,,
but there is no fun in that :rofl:

i dont know if anyone has seen what we are doing to alum boats here, catering for what the public wants in beam and gunwale height
but they are nearly square, high 4-5ft sided wind socks :rofl: that handle like schit

Bullshipper
10-28-2006, 09:13 AM
IM412,

bajadan does want more info, he just wants to argue his uniformed opinion.

Thanks for providing some of the links out there. It was very informative.

Now if I could just hook 2 of these panga hulls together to make a cat, it would end all arguments.

YankeeBoater
10-28-2006, 10:08 AM
im412 - 10/28/2006 2:46 AM
i dont know if anyone has seen what we are doing to alum boats here, catering for what the public wants in beam and gunwale height
but they are nearly square, high 4-5ft sided wind socks :rofl: that handle like schit

There is a similar phenomenon here in glass boats - it's kind of an arms race - as the boat gets wider and squarer, it can hold up a heavier, more powerful engine... but of course then it also *requires* a heavier, more powerful engine to make it go anywhere anytime soon, so the engine makers come out with yet larger, heavier engines, and then the boat makers... :grin:

bajadan
10-28-2006, 01:23 PM
The reference to The Harry Schuell Delta hull design license agreement was made public in a 1998 law suit in US district court, civil case docket #97-CV-74809. The case is against a company for using the delta hull design that may not be licensed to do so. The authorized boat builders are listed. Among the licensed dealers is Yamaha.

For my reference to Mac Shryer being the first person to design and build the molded fiberglass panga. His panga factory has not made pangas in about a decade or so. However, if he and his wife Mary are still alive (last I heard they were), they can be reached at the Marina de la Paz, in La Paz, Baja Sur, Mexico. He owns the Marina.

Now for your reference that the panga design is several hundred years old. Here is what the article you reference has to say about that.

"The UB longboats are based upon traditional Japanese fishing craft which have evolved over hundred of years in the typhoon-infested waters of the Nippon coast. Naturally the fibre glass models are a little different, but the good sea-worthy qualities of the boats are retained in the Yamaha fibreglass version.

OF course they are different. Saying the panga evolved from a several hundred year old design is like saying the space shuttle evolved from the Wright bothers first flight plane. So what???? Does this mean they are the same boat/plane or even close to it? Just a big bunch of misleading worthless information to confuse buyers....

Bullshipper
10-28-2006, 01:36 PM
:sleeping: :sleeping: :sleeping:

im412
10-28-2006, 01:45 PM
links please

bajadan
10-28-2006, 02:01 PM
http://www.rbbi.com/folders/pat/regal/regal.htm

persistantitch
10-28-2006, 02:04 PM
Alot said here about panga botes. Not too hard to sift out the BS. Fact is, it's a great design that's been around for decades. Before I bought a Tortuga (Andros) I researched it fairly well. Wish I'd kept some of the noise I collected. One source that I have lost subscribed to the world bank theory from the 40's or 50's. The $10K prize winner was a 14' model that looks a lot like the Caribianna of today and ran on a 40HP motor. It was a contest to solve the problems of the Japanese fishing fleet. The article said the name, Panga (pronounced pane-guh. Not the latin, short a sound) came from the Bantu (congolese) word phanka meaning bladed African tool like a machete. As the style became popular in Mexico and Latin America, the pronunciation changed to a short a to sound more like pon-ga. Some adhereants to the Bantu like myself have trouble calling it a pon-ga.
This is the 6th boat Ive owned after growing up on several of my dad's boats. I also have spent many years on the high and low seas professionaly as a hydrographic surveyor and navigator. I got the 4th boat Robert built under the Tortuga name over a year ago and could not love a small boat more. The Texas coastal bend off Port Aransas is where I live and can see extream wind and wave conditions as well as horribly rough bay days and she handels all I want to do with a big smile. I have a 115 Yamaha with nearly 100 hrs now so I can confirm an average 7MPH and I go faster than I need to. Same lenght Pathfinders, Kenners, etc, need 225HP to keep up or pass me and their economy is horrible. They are a little less tippy with 4 people in them but I seldom have that many people in a boat under 35'. Also, I dont see myself coming up the channel and those guys are often flagging me down to talk Panga and say howw good looking a bote it is.

Cheers-Wil

im412
10-28-2006, 02:50 PM
now you know why i ask for links, its not a panga delta pad :thumbsup:
schoell patented Duo Delta Conic Hull

http://www.schoellmarine.com/conic.htm


http://www.schoellmarine.com/images/DDC/hull.jpg

bit off topic, they didnt win the case


http://www.metalcraftmarine.com/html/kingston.htm
has a patent on their panga like delta pad hull the way they designed their hull
..dont think its hard to get a boat patent or breach a patent..happens every day


persistantitch
like you i did a lot of research before i went for a test ride in the second hand one i brought
efficiency, seakeeping and the price was the reason i got mine
i dont regret it for a minute

persistantitch
10-28-2006, 03:01 PM
re: aquas222----how do pangas ride?
I dont know where my post went but I replied to some of this origionation chatter. I may be off on my sources as to the birth of the panga but Im not off on it's performance. I got the 4th Tortuga built in Sarasota and couldnt be happier. Having owned a Grady, 2 chris's, a glaston, zodiac, and a donzi, I am qualified to report. It's all good. A bit tippy but that is to be expected and the trade off is the narrow beam which relates to killer fuel economy. 100 hrs and a steady 7MPG in my 115 yammy. Trim tabs are mandatory due to the flat aft so you can level it. You can get more range aout of the tabs with a SOLAS prop. The only time I got wet in smallish seas,2', was under a 15kt quartering wind on the port side. It is very rare to get in "wet" conditions. There seems to be a problem locating my ducer in the battery hold under the drivers seat. That area is where the slight concave occurs on the "flat" aft section. I thing the concave bit produces some cavitation and I cant get depth readings at plane. CAN ANYBODY SUGGESST SOMETHING? If someone doesnt have a cheap solution, my next alternative is a thru hull ducer.
The only add I am considering is a washdown. I may just tee off the abit well pump???
All in all...a great boat!
:trou

bajadan
10-28-2006, 03:10 PM
This hull is only one of the many patents Schuell owns the right to. I have shown you were Yamaha is buying the rights to a delta hull designs from Harry Schuell.

You made the statement:

"2. yes Yamaha did license local builders from all over the world to build there boats,"

Now you show me a link were Yamaha owns the rights to the Delta pad design.

im412
10-28-2006, 03:15 PM
mate......its not a panga delta pad hull..look at the picture and read the webpage


never said yamaha owns the right to the delta pad...i said the delta pad has been used for 100's of years in japan and yamaha designed their boat on these and many builders incorporating the panga delta pad on their boats as they find it makes a better hull


mate..have a think for a bit before you post... and please dont misquote me

licenced = being able to use yams moulds and call it a yamha approved/named panga, would be my definition


in australia southwind was fully owned by yamaha..... they then sold/licenced the moulds to southernstar

not 100% sure how sth america is set up

bajadan
10-28-2006, 03:38 PM
[QUOTE]im412 - 10/27/2006 11:48 PM

2. yes Yamaha did license local builders from all over the world to build there boats,

im412
10-28-2006, 10:08 PM
mate, as i understand it
yamaha designed the hull on jap fishing boats and every nation gives it their name for it
here they are called longboats or banana boatsin the americas they are called pangas

yamaha designed "panga' [ or insert local name for such a boat] hull builders are split into 2 groups,
one group yamaha has a financial interest in, supervise/overview construction and put their brand name to it
the second group build the yamaha hull with no supervise/overview construction or association with yamaha and dont use the yamaha brand name

taking about pangas is hard because every small boat in mexico is called a panga, being spanish for small boat and african for knife with curved blade, so i have read

there is a 3rd group that build what are commonly known as pangas that look nothing like the yamaha hull and dont use a delta pad
this includes the stitch and glue online plans panga boats that i have seen
there are pangas and there are pangas



a delta pad is simply described as the flat triangle section of hull that starts at the transom with the base of the triangle and the pointy end of the triangle runs to the bow arlon and i have put pics up of the delta pad
more info is on the panga group
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/panga_style_boats/

solarfry
10-28-2006, 10:45 PM
[error]

RiverRat1969
10-28-2006, 11:04 PM
Whew! Everybody take time to catch your breath, and THINK. All of us know boat design is a mixture of various compromises. Skinny boats have been around since the dawn of man. Aleut kayaks, Viking longboats, and more recently (WW II) the German E boats.

114 feet long, 17 feet wide, round bilged, and displacing 114 TONS. A length to beam ratio of 6.7 to 1. Capable of maintaining 25 knots in extremely rough water, German E boats routinely outran allied PT boats in rough conditions in the North Sea, even though PT boats were faster in calm conditions. With a total of 7,500 HP, this was a ratio of 30.4 pounds per horsepower. Compare these numbers to your own boat. Length to beam ratio, and pounds per horsepower.

At high speeds, a skinny boat has less frontal area to bang through waves than a shorter, wider boat does. At displacement (nonplaning) speeds, a long boat is faster than a short boat of the same capacity (displacement.)

The reason panga style, or ANY SKINNY BOAT DESIGN is so prevalent overseas is because they use less fuel. No matter what bottom type it has (round, flat, or Vee), a skinny boat will ride better, and be more fuel efficient than the same bottom type in a short, wide boat of the same capacity.

The primary reason trailerable boats in this country are wide is because so many Americans live in cities and towns; usually with a small lot, and small garage. A boat 8-1/2 feet wide and 24 feet long is much easier to store at the average American home than, say, a 6 foot wide boat 36 feet long. And if you keep your boat at a marina slip, they charge BY THE FOOT, not by displacement; another reason Americans like squatty boats.

The next time you see an offshore boat race, make note of the length to beam ratios of these high speed racers.
LONG AND LEAN. If fuel prices sky rocket to $7-$10 per gallon, and STAY THERE, skinny boats will become the mainstay of recreational boaters. Just my two cents worth.

im412
10-28-2006, 11:07 PM
yes, long and skinny makes an efficent hull

YankeeBoater
10-29-2006, 12:32 AM
There are some elite builders in the US making large long/skinnies, but the kind of person who can afford these isn't buying them because of gas prices - its for the ride, and the style.
http://www.hodgdonyachts.com/
http://www.zurnyachts.com/

Bullshipper
10-29-2006, 09:01 AM
Cats get around the long skinny rule when it comes to deck space and beams over 12' make a noiticable difference in 90% of all water conditions with no sacrifice in fuel economy.

Using 114' warships is like me using the 25' wide wave piercers, both completley unpractical for day boat or fishing activities.

But a typical cat sponson is less than 3' wide and 26 feet long so this 9X1 ratio will work even better to achieve efficiency and a soft ride in a smaller package that does not require a defense budget to buy.

I grant that the delta pad panga is an inexpensive efficienct single engine cruiser when she gets over 25' long, but a 7' beam + high deadrise = tippy in my book and the lack of toe room- coaming pads, and low gunwales does not seem ideal for offshore stand up fish in bad weather conditions IMO.

So theororeticly I think you are better off with a wide beam, high tunnel planning cat with trim tabs that is +23 feet, and loaded lightly.

We're just what if'in about all this, but why don't you think about that.

im412
10-29-2006, 09:42 AM
leaving the handling of both boats aside...which i think both are good
trailer boats are limited to 8' here and cats do have querks..nothings perfect

i like cats..but they use twice the hp and fuel of a panga, and cost twice the price here too
ya get more deck area...but it came down to a cost thing with me
a basic panga there is 20,000 and i'm guessing a basic cat there is around 40,000

i can buy and run a panga with the same speed eg 70hp @ 30mph ...for 1/2 the cost of a cat
if they had the same costs..i'd buy a semi displacement cat..

Bullshipper
10-29-2006, 12:19 PM
im412 - 10/29/2006 9:42 AM



leaving the handling of both boats aside...which i think both are good
trailer boats are limited to 8' here and cats do have querks..nothings perfect

i like cats..but they use twice the hp and fuel of a panga, and cost twice the price here too
ya get more deck area...but it came down to a cost thing with me
a basic panga there is 20,000 and i'm guessing a basic cat there is around 40,000

i can buy and run a panga with the same speed eg 70hp @ 30mph ...for 1/2 the cost of a cat
if they had the same costs..i'd buy a semi displacement cat..

Prices sound like they really vary.

I can build an alloy 24X8.6" 2400 lb cat for around $24,000 with the ttop, 4 - 75 gallon tanks rigged out no motors or trailer in Mexico, and the cut 5086 aluminum runs $4 a lb prior to wasting 26% of the material compared to $1.70, 3 years ago. The same thing in hand laid fibrglass costs around $13,600 if you invest in a mold. The 4-5 mm plate alloy cat nets out at 2360 lbs and the figerglass model at 3550. The lighter hull will do about 50 mph on twin 140's, cruise at 38/3.8 mpg. It drops down to to twin 70's to go 35 according to the calcs.

But if you flaten out the sponsons I believe she would get equal economy as the panga, pound a little less, and be more stable side to side. No?


You earlier said that a a panga could be had for $3K in Au, did I understand you wrong?

FYI bare pangas in Mexico that run 23X6.8 feet are selling for $9800 with a console at the largest factory in Mazatlan, flat floor and a forward bulkhead, just a captains seat, no gas tank or controls and I would guess their fab cost would be around $6500 with standard markup. But these boats are junk imo as their bottoms and sides are very very thin and they quiclky develop hair cracks that waterlog the litte 1/2 x 3" stringers laid flat.

im412
10-29-2006, 11:01 PM
talking U.S. boats and prices with dealer off the floor walk in and buy..
got to talk apples and apples and same length for pitch

we and U.S. have lots of boats where ya compare buy/run costs and speed the cat will win hands down :thumbsup:

i like and would own a cat.
but it runs a far second to a yamaha panga when i was pricing for cost/run ..

a couple of U.S. builders, 22' pangas are running 50mph with a 150hp...we can use that as a base
base units boat motor trailer were around $20,000 last summer, i think...

dont know todays price i will ask....chip in if you do know..


dont really want to get into a cat v panga, but its gone there now..my first one of these :)


........ if ya can...please show me a similar production base unit boat motor trailer U.S 22' cat that can get anywhere near
the buy and run cost of a panga

YankeeBoater
10-30-2006, 12:28 AM
im412 - 10/30/2006 12:01 AM



talking U.S. boats and prices with dealer off the floor walk in and buy..
got to talk apples and apples and same length for pitch

we and U.S. have lots of boats where ya compare buy/run costs and speed the cat will win hands down :thumbsup:

i like and would own a cat.
but it runs a far second to a yamaha panga when i was pricing for cost/run ..

a couple of U.S. builders, 22' pangas are running 50mph with a 150hp...we can use that as a base
base units boat motor trailer were around $20,000 last summer, i think...

dont know todays price i will ask....chip in if you do know..


dont really want to get into a cat v panga, but its gone there now..my first one of these :)


........ if ya can...please show me a similar production base unit boat motor trailer U.S 22' cat that can get anywhere near
the buy and run cost of a panga

Hmmmm... if it's cheapest to buy and run and seakeeping is important, I'd consider a worthy alternative to the Panga to be any number of of displacement and semidisplacement designs as were popular in the middle of the 20th century... modest length/beam ratio, soft chines, hull tapering a bit to stern and with a bit of rocker, all of which give efficiency at lower speeds... They have a soft ride, and these boats will typically run with anywhere from 15-30hp. For example, here's a semidisplacement vessel that uses an outboard mounted in a covered well that's just been introduced in fiberglass by Southport Island Marine (the design as noted is nothing new though)... It is a derivative design and so does seem to have a hard chine, but still, a 21-footer cruises at 17 knots with a 25HP outboard, and the design was developed originally for the notoriously choppy Buzzard's Bay around the turn of the last century.
http://www.southportislandmarine.com/southporthb21.htm

Displacement boats of course, do far better on efficiency, and generally better at seakeeping, but don't manage the blistering speeds (relatively speaking ;-)) of the semidisplacement boats.

im412
10-30-2006, 01:40 AM
yankee..we are talking america..boat has to do 50mph http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a306/kosams/Webfishingclub/lipsrsealed.gif

sorry mate has to be a planing boat..specifically a 22' cat for now :thumbsup:

check this record breaking 70ft 240hp.... 1.3 mpg @30mph ...outrigger/tri for efficiency and seakeeping
iLAN VOYAGER 3rd boat down
http://www.nigelirens.demon.co.uk/FRAMEpower.htm

YankeeBoater
10-30-2006, 02:05 AM
im412 - 10/30/2006 2:40 AM

yankee..we are talking america..boat has to do 50mph http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a306/kosams/Webfishingclub/lipsrsealed.gif

sorry mate has to be a planing boat..specifically a 22' cat for now :thumbsup:

check this record breaking 70ft 240hp.... 1.3 mpg @30mph ...outrigger/tri for efficiency and seakeeping
iLAN VOYAGER 3rd boat down
http://www.nigelirens.demon.co.uk/FRAMEpower.htm
*lol* Yes, I have noticed a certain market preference here... your trimaran looks very cool - that might be a semidisplacement boat, in fact. Do you know what the record it broke actually is?

Have you read the passages on cats in Sorenson's Guide to Powerboats? He sings their praises yes, but also notes some nontrivial issues - there are some intrinsic advantages to cats, but likewise to monohulls. He heads a boat design consulting firm and knows his stuff. I am certainly not saying a cat is a mistake, but if you haven't read it and are considering making a purchase, I honestly think you'd be interested in what he has to say.

im412
10-30-2006, 02:09 AM
sorry ..i didnt convert litres to gallons..works out to aprox [point 28] .28 gal per mile cruise @ 25mph...WOT 30mph

i posted that for something to talk about while bullshipper finds a cat to match buy/run price

all i'm prepaired to say is that cats have their querks ..a 22'x8' full planing cat has more querks http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a306/kosams/Webfishingclub/lipsrsealed.gif

how is that aussie quinnie treating you...they arent a bad ride

slickster
10-30-2006, 04:44 PM
So now it's panga vs cats...I have not been on a panga so I can't speak to their ride/handling, there sales hype touts high mpg with smooth, dry ride, I have seriously considered down-sizing to panga 22 from a twin vee 26, until I get out in the big water, 60 miles out, the TV shines as a stable, economical platform, not as economical to buy/run as a panga, but in snotty seas with a long ride, I'll take the cat, for me the bottom line is....you gotta pay to play if you want to get offshore (and ****** on less that perfect days....fuel mileage/lower monthly payments take a back seat when the crap hits.....the panga 26 looks pretty cool, but it's about the same as what I paid for my TV, (used with 60 hrs), I'll try to get out in a pange soon and let you know....Mick

Bullshipper
10-30-2006, 05:54 PM
The $22K pangas I have seen advertised in the states are boat show specials. no options, low power, no trailer, no track record, etc, etc.

Here we are touting the Pangler by Angler, that run about $35K-$45K single to twins, and frankly, you will have to still do a lot of things to the "best" of the bunch to keep it a little more maintenance free.

Cats on the other hand are getting a priemium price as they have been hard to stock. Packages like the 25'Seacat that I bought for $24K in 1999 with 70 hours will now cost over $100K new as they are in demand.

Twin Vee had the market cornered on the economical cats and said the heck with that and now have doubled in price in less than 5 years, and there is still a waiting line, while others have suffered.

But like Mick says, you generally get what you pay for and if you want the bottom of the barrel cats in the same genere as a panga there are makers like Livingston to satisfy the consumer who loses when comparing these prices against plastic kayaks, or a rubber tire and some fins to get the ultimate bargain and gas milage.

I for one think that the catamaran sector has room for an ambitious builder as they are still overpriced, not very well designed, and have less than a stellar warranty performance.

And I am not sorry that this turned into a cat vs whatever, as the panga was being touted as the best value for the money, and I believe that better choices are out there.

You say that a panga is the cheapest, well I used my cat for 5 years and got 15% more than I paid for her. Find one of these panga stories and I will accept that your boat cost you about the same as mine.

I am not trying to beat on you, just comparing values in the US market over the last 10 years.

im412
10-30-2006, 08:56 PM
so what you are saying bull shipper ..reading between the lines

is that you found out the same thing i did

there is no production 22' cat that can get anywhere near thebuy/run cost of a 22' panga

slickster
cats run with lower g forces than a mono..
most of the speed records are held by cats
cats do have their querks and i'm not looking for a cat fight :rofl:

my point was a 22'ft panga is half the buy price and run costs of a 22' cat basic production boat ...but the cat may run faster


as to the ability of pangas to handle big seas
the USCG seems to think they are quick

The Coast Guard has unveiled a new armed helicopter, the MH-90 Enforcer, and has flown itto intercept the 70-knot go-fast boats that have been easily eluding Coast Guard cutterssince drug runners introduced the boats into service in 1995.The go-fast boats--30 to 45 feet in length and capable of ranging up to 1,300 miles--are faster than the so-called "cigarette" boats and represent a dramatic escalation in the cat-and-mouse drug-interdiction war.
http://www.navyleague.org/seapower/uscg_to_go.htm



there is a U.S. customs helo' pilot on the panga group
that was so impressed when he saw them running in the big stuff as he chases them down...
to shoot out the motors with 50calhe brought one of his own eduardono pangas :thumbsup:

im412
10-30-2006, 09:14 PM
there is a hickup again..link
http://www.navyleague.org/seapower/uscg_to_go.htm

Bullshipper
10-30-2006, 11:01 PM
im412 - 10/30/2006 8:56 PM

so what you are saying bull shipper ..reading between the lines is that you found out the same thing i did

there is no production 22' cat that can get anywhere near thebuy/run cost of a 22' panga

Yes and no mate.

The used pangas are less espensive to buy, but their build quality make them depreciate quickly, costing you more money to own.

The cats cost more but usually hold their value better.

So in my mind you have to :
Buy either used to lower their cost in the first place
Spend more to get the cat ride, but when you resell your cats, the difference in price in minimal, making the total end cost to own this hull less than the panga.

im412
10-30-2006, 11:47 PM
dont know about the resale of 22' pangas from panga,com panga marine and andros
i'm sure when cats were first introduced to amerians they we hesitent buying secondhand

if you go back and read the early cat topics here..i think they are exactly the same as the panga ones now :bashhh:
look ugly, no resale, and not as good as my boat :mad:


as the yankee builders ..build their reputations ..i think resale will be ok for pangas

build quality..do ya mean cup holders...havent heard anyone bag the strength or longevity of a yam panga
and owners are raving about the "build quality" of the andros boat and pangamarine ;?
its early days for the american panga but its acceptance is growing
i have confidence that they will evolve into something the general american market will fully accept but time will tell

at the moment the builders are happily building pangas with nice fit and finish for americans who have ridden in a basic yam panga
liked the ride and want one for themselves :thumbsup:


but dont want an apple box for a seat :rofl:

im412
10-31-2006, 01:15 AM
curiosity got me bullshipper i went to boat trader and found 3 yamaha type pangas

http://adcache.boattraderonline.com/6/0/6/86270706.htm
2006 CUSTOM PERMIT 22' 7". 6MPG/30KTS. TURN KEY. MILITARY MOVE, MUST SELL. 28,900 FIRM.

http://adcache.boattraderonline.com/6/6/8/86369168.htm
2006 22' $27,000

http://adcache.boattraderonline.com/6/3/9/10299439.htm
2005 19' custom panga $20,900

resale looks ok to me ;?
if links dont work copy paste in address bar up top

think that 19' is more than he paid for it..[shhhhh dont tell anyone smile]

Bullshipper
10-31-2006, 07:03 AM
I found the ads interesting in that they contradict what I have been seeing. I take it all back.

gaefranz
10-31-2006, 07:51 AM
Bajadan, you are absolutely right.

If you can read spanish:


La embarcación más exitosa en el mundo, ahora la construye en Argentina Astillero Benavídez




Este original diseño fue creado hace más de 30 años como un proyecto financiado por el Banco Mundial con el objeto de proporcionar una embarcación marinera, confiable y económica para los pescadores comerciales de países en vías de desarrollo. Con esta premisa, las matrices originales se distribuyeron por toda América Latina y otras áreas del mundo, según las necesidades de cada región.

El nombre original de esta embarcación (Panga) proviene de un vocablo tribal africano con el que se denomina al conocido machete de monte, ya que por la forma de cortar el agua y las olas, con su perfil lo identifican con este elemento.
Este característico barco, de eslora relativamente larga, buen francobordo y marcado arrufo, con su cuello alrededor de la borda es en la actualidad producido en nuestro país por Astillero Benavídez, que registró la marca “Pahngas”.
Técnicamente desarrollado para tareas de pesca comercial, este barco puede mover importantes volúmenes de mercaderías con motorizaciones relativamente pequeñas, lo que resulta muy rentable en términos económicos para pequeños y medianos productores.

Construidos con la fortaleza necesaria para labores profesionales, nos encontramos frente a una embarcación que, por sus características, también se la emplea en actividades recreativas y deportivas, ya que su distribución interna, el comando central (debajo del cual se puede colocar un W.C.), amplios pañoles de guarda y armónicas líneas lo hacen atractivo para el desarrollo de estas actividades, muestra su versatilidad a la hora del equipamiento, de acuerdo con el uso y presupuesto del propietario.



Check out this link (in spanish).
www.astillerobenavidez.com
Down around here the pangas are built in Argentina.

Bullshipper
10-31-2006, 09:11 AM
Well I am fluent in spanish and all that says is that they started building pangas in Argentina at this boatyard 30 years ago. It doesn't say who designed them, etc, etc.

I saw them in Mexico 38 years ago, and they were old looking then. Cooperatives where formed in Mexio after the revolution of 1938, and the governemt start buying and giving away boats to give the people a way to feed themselves. Panga became an official term, as were the limits of up to one 75 hp motor to qualify for the give away program.

After that I believe that Yamaha and the world banktook the name panga and publisized it to promote sales and financing.

But who really knows as 99% of the production has always been undocumented artisan craftsmanship performed on a beach where they launch and fish, worldwide, long before I came along.

bajadan
10-31-2006, 12:26 PM
Still doing research, however, it appears there is very weak evidence on both sides of the ocean who really had the first panga. I am now starting to believe that since water transportation and seafood gathering was such an important part of peoples survival worldwide it is possible that the the panga developed in several places at the same time. Kind of like the Pyramids did in Egypt and Central America.

The problem I have with the claims in the brochures and articles about the original panga is, these are very carefully worded phrases that if you study them have completely different meanings than they appear to have. Also these are documents from USA companies, not Yamaha or the Japanese. I can not find anywhere where Yamaha makes the claim that they have the original panga design. In fact, Japan is about the only country that I can not find any history on the panga until recent times. Strange..

im412
10-31-2006, 07:45 PM
imo..if you look at boat and would rebuild it in wood
if you would start with a keel [square piece of wood].... its western design [including spanish]
if you start with a pad [flat piece of wood] its eastern...[including japan]

this will throw a red rag to the bulls :jk:

yamaha fully owned australian plant would of approved this review

http://www.marinews.com/details.php?recordid=416&PHPSESSID=56b22d555da50c87f28c36d213c1a

The original hulls were brought out here from Japan about three years ago and reviewed by our WA correspondent, Bob Slight. His report at the time noted in glowing terms the rough water ability, but also the very rough and ready boxwood interior.
Since then the local Aussie factory has cleaned up the UBs act remarkably. The Aussie version provides practical, moulded interiors with self-draining floors and optional centre console steering stations.

they are crediting japan for this one the L/b 5:1 type
http://www.marinews.com/details.php?recordid=506

http://www.marinews.com/contentImages/060404010327_bt-long-0893001.jpg

but are saying they developed their L/b 4:1 type in australia
what america and australia know as the yamaha panga
the ub19 and ub22 later called the ub580 and ub670 when we went metric

http://www.marinews.com/details.php?recordid=416&PHPSESSID=56b22d555da50c87f28c36d213c1a

http://www.fishvictoria.com/pnewgear/south/south.php

for info on aussie panga google.. southwind ub , yamaha ub and yamaha southwind ub
the 3 will bring up different results

solarfry
10-31-2006, 08:17 PM
Bullshipper - 10/31/2006 9:11 AM

Well I am fluent in spanish and all that says is that they started building pangas in Argentina at this boatyard 30 years ago. It doesn't say who designed them, etc, etc.

I saw them in Mexico 38 years ago, and they were old looking then. Cooperatives where formed in Mexio after the revolution of 1938, and the governemt start buying and giving away boats to give the people a way to feed themselves. Panga became an official term, as were the limits of up to one 75 hp motor to qualify for the give away program.

After that I believe that Yamaha and the world banktook the name panga and publisized it to promote sales and financing.

But who really knows as 99% of the production has always been undocumented artisan craftsmanship performed on a beach where they launch and fish, worldwide, long before I came along.


My goog translator indicates it says they were designed by and for World Bank over 30 yrs. ago. It also says name Panga has African Tribal roots and means knife. They used name to indicate ocean cutting nature of bow of boat.

Could not make sense of rest..

Bullshipper
10-31-2006, 09:13 PM
solarfry - 10/31/2006 8:17 PM

Bullshipper - 10/31/2006 9:11 AM

Well I am fluent in spanish and all that says is that they started building pangas in Argentina at this boatyard 30 years ago. It doesn't say who designed them, etc, etc.

I saw them in Mexico 38 years ago, and they were old looking then. Cooperatives where formed in Mexio after the revolution of 1938, and the governemt start buying and giving away boats to give the people a way to feed themselves. Panga became an official term, as were the limits of up to one 75 hp motor to qualify for the give away program.

After that I believe that Yamaha and the world banktook the name panga and publisized it to promote sales and financing.

But who really knows as 99% of the production has always been undocumented artisan craftsmanship performed on a beach where they launch and fish, worldwide, long before I came along.


My goog translator indicates it says they were designed by and for World Bank over 30 yrs. ago. It also says name Panga has African Tribal roots and means knife. They used name to indicate ocean cutting nature of bow of boat.

Could not make sense of rest..


here is a link to the world bank chronicals, founded in 1947 in Europe.
http://web.worldbank.org/WBSITE/EXTERNAL/EXTABOUTUS/EXTARCHIVES/0,,contentMDK:20035653~menuPK:56305~pagePK:36726~p iPK:36092~theSitePK:29506,00.html

And I will translate in CAPITAL LETTERS what the lik says word for word, garaunteeing that this is better than any computer will do, according to Bullshipper

La embarcación más exitosa en el mundo, ahora la construye en Argentina Astillero Benavídez THE MOST SUCCESFUL BOAT IN THE WORLD IS NOW BEING FABRICATED IN THE BENEVIDEZ SHIPYARDS, IN ARGENTIA (THIS IS AN AD BOYS)

Este original diseño fue creado hace más de 30 años como un proyecto financiado por el Banco Mundial con el objeto de proporcionar una embarcación marinera, confiable y económica para los pescadores comerciales de países en vías de desarrollo.
THE ORIGINAL DESIGN WAS CREATED MORE THAN 30 YEARS AGO AS A PROJECT THAT WAS FINANCED BY THE WORLD BANK WHOSE OBJECTIVE WAS TO PROVIDE AN ECONOMICAL AND TRUSTWORTHY SALTWATER HULL FOR COMMERCIAL FISHERMAN IN DEVELOPING COUNTRIES.

Con esta premisa, las matrices originales se distribuyeron por toda América Latina y otras áreas del mundo, según las necesidades de cada región.
BASED ON THIS PREMISE, MOLDS WERE THEN DISTRIBURED ALL OVER LATIN AMERICA AND OTHER PARTS OF THE WORLD ACCORDING TO THE NECESSITIES FOR EACH REGION.

SO IT SOUNDS LIKE THESE GUYS GOT THEIR HANDS ON A MOLD, AND ARE TRYING TO SELL THEM.

im412
10-31-2006, 10:03 PM
bullshipper
can you do me a favor..google and i tried but cant find it
i think it might be internal links or something
if you could guide me to the page please ..prefer english..my spanish is non existent :grin: http://www.worldbank.org/


thank you
jack

Bullshipper
10-31-2006, 11:28 PM
im412 - 10/31/2006 10:03 PM



bullshipper
can you do me a favor..google and i tried but cant find it
i think it might be internal links or something
if you could guide me to the page please ..prefer english..my spanish is non existent :grin: http://www.worldbank.org/


thank you
jack


Both your link and mine appear in English on my screen Jack.

Your link does have a language key at the top of the page though.

Bullshipper
10-31-2006, 11:30 PM
http://web.worldbank.org/WBSITE/EXTERNAL/EXTABOUTUS/EXTARCHIVES/0,,contentMDK:20035653~menuPK:56305~pagePK:36726~p iPK:36092~theSitePK:29506,00.html

im412
10-31-2006, 11:39 PM
thanks mate,, i had to click on the pdf...LOL..silly me

while im looking

paste this in google search and translate
http://www.yamaha-motor.jp/marine/index.html

and click on one of the 4 pictures

look for .....line up ..
in left hand column

click on wassen
seems to be their jap pangas they use off japan

bajadan
11-01-2006, 12:44 AM
Hope you guys can find something in the world bank achieves. All I keep coming up with during that time period is how much money Japan was lending to the world bank.

IM412, thank you for the links, looks like you have a nice solid version of the panga in Aussie land. From what I can tell from the info in the links is the Yamaha panga never hit Australia until 1993, or did I miss read the links???

Here is a quote from the book "BAJA HANDBOOK" by Joe Cummings, The version I have is dated 1994. (page 301)

"Pangas: If you're in the market for a new panga, La Paz is the panga capital of Mexico. American Mac Shroyer, the first person to design and build the molded fiberglass panga, produces them at his panga factory at Calle Navarro 960. 1968 Mac started his small factory."

Other stories going around are Mac was in the fiberglass business and used his fiberglass knowledge and connections to start making pangas. Another story goes that he bought a factory in Mazatlan, moved the employees over to La Paz and started to make a fiberglass version of the panga. Another story, he won a bid from the Mexican govt. to make a fiberglass version of the Panga.

Not sure how much or this to believe, maybe Bullshipper has some insight into these stories, However, he did start the panga factory in 1968. The factory no longer makes pangas.

im412
11-01-2006, 02:33 AM
bajadan
did you look at wasens on the yamaha jp site?
not disputing f/g pangas were made in 1968 in la paz or even earlier
was it vhull or pad hull..is it what we know as ..the world panga

i have seen mex net boats that are v type and not pad type
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/panga_style_boats/

http://us.a2.yahoofs.com/groups/g_16720083/d127/__sr_/e88e.jpg?grocHSFBfPbwD82d

so the question becomes
1 was the world panga a delta padded hull
did yamaha first design and build world panga [local name]

2, did Mac design and build what is know as the yamaha world panga
did yamaha take design or marketed it for him
or was it one like the above,, a v hull?

3. when did yamaha first start making wasen's [japanese local name for panga]
are they based on tradition jap crafts as it seems

4 is the panga infact a japanese wasen

5 when did the 5:1 panga get fatter to a 4:1 that is the u.s. and aussie type

i cant say for certain what the answers are

you me and bullshipper are trying to find out :thumbsup:
to say information is cloudy for me is an understatement
prolly take a few more pages..but we are getting closer

from the aussie sites it seems
they brought over their what looks to be the w25gfr [5:1] of the time [off the yam jap website]
but werent put into production here

yamaha started southwind, making longboats [local name] late 80's early 90's
where that mould came from i dont know..
they say it was developed here to get rid of the wooden floor etc
[is this true or just boat report hype?]
but it was the 4:1 hull


the world bank one is the 5:1 of 30years ago..etc....
if we could find a picture in the archives of the world bank...we would have a better shot at the answer
or if one of us sends an email to yamaha jp and asks them ;) ..i'll volunteer and send one off

this is the current w25gfr that is in a lot of countries
http://www.yamaha-motor.jp/marine/lineup/j-boat/nw25-27/img/w25gfr.jpg

im412
11-01-2006, 02:49 AM
bullshipper your in mexico,,can ya find out anything from eduardono...
i think they are yamaha or tied up with

im412
11-01-2006, 09:58 AM
gaefranz
thanks for your input
thats 4 countries now that is trying to work it out :thumbsup:

i put the link into google search and translated it
if you scroll down the page you will see the eduardono 32'/ panga.com 32'
even same picture, only yours is smudged



This original design was created more ago than 30 years like a project financed by the World Bank with the intention of providing a marine, reliable and economic boat for the commercial fishermen of developing countries. With this premise, the original matrices distributed by all Latin America and other areas of the world, according to the necessities of each region.

The original name of this boat (Panga) comes from an African tribal word with which it is denominated to the well-known mount machete, since by the form to cut to the water and the waves, with his profile they identify it with this element.
This characteristic boat, of relatively long length, good freeboard and noticeable camber, with its neck around the hut is at the produced present time in our country by Benavídez Shipyard, that registered the mark “Pahngas”.
Technically developed for tasks of commercial fishing, this boat can move important volumes of merchandises with relatively small motorizations, which is very profitable in economic terms for small and medium producers.

Constructed with the necessary strength for professional workings, we in front of were a boat that, by its characteristics, also is used it in recreational and sport activities, since their internal distribution, the central commando (underneath which a W.C can be placed.), ample storerooms of guard and harmonicas lines make it attractive for the development of these activities, shows its versatility at the time of the equipment, in agreement with the use and budget of the proprietor.

bajadan
11-01-2006, 10:40 AM
IM412

I must be honest here. The earliest reference I can find tied to the first Mexican wooden panga is a mention that the Philippines may have had an influence in it. Not much of a to go on there. Just a casual mention.

I have an interesting story about the actor John Wayne and a panga. Want to get a few facts and dates pinned down before I pass it on.

Dan

gaefranz
11-01-2006, 11:03 AM
Bullshipper, I am not interested din Pangas but the history of boat design fascinates me.

Here it says ( you do not need a translation , I suppose)


Este original diseño fue creado hace más de 30 años como un proyecto financiado por el Banco Mundial con el objeto de proporcionar una embarcación marinera, confiable y económica para los pescadores comerciales de países en vías de desarrollo.

( Trans: This original design was created over 30 years ago as a project financed by the world bank with the intentioof providing a seaworthy vessel , reliable and affordable for commercial fishermen in developing countries)

I thought I had found the origin of the Panga.
Waiting for a definitive answer. I have been a learner on THT for 4 years now
I am enjoying this thread a lot.

bajadan
11-01-2006, 12:12 PM
This is the best I can come up with on the John Wayne story.


"Baja's proximity to Los Angeles (a quick hop in a private jet) has made it a perennial favourite with the Hollywood crowd. John Wayne and Errol Flynn started the fashion in the 1940s and 1950s, though they came in search of solitude and game-fishing."

Here is a link if you need to varify the source.

http://travel.guardian.co.uk/countries/story/1,,1547881,00.html

The story I heard from old fishermen in La Paz is John Wayne used to hire them and their "pangas" to "ROW" him around trolling for big game fish. This was before any gas motors.


There is also a mention of John Wayne flying to La Paz many times to fish. This is in a Latino Papers archieves printed in LA CA, however, it is a secure site and I can not copy from it or link you into it.

Nothing here to prove anything, just interesting legends.

Bullshipper
11-01-2006, 01:28 PM
uuuuuuuuuuuuuhhh, high tech weenie

http://www.yamaha-motor.jp/marine/lineup/pro-fish/drive/yd-26c-0d/index.html

bajadan
11-01-2006, 02:34 PM
Guess I better call BS on myself. Of course my statement below is not worded properly and is not correct.

QUOTE]bajadan - 11/1/2006 12:12 PM

This was before any gas motors.

[/QUOTE]


The edit time ran out before I caught it, my apologies. Most of you probably understand my meaning. However, I should have said something more like

"This was before any outboard gas engines where installed on the Mexican panga."

I do not know the history of the outboard. Not sure if outboard engines where available in the 40's and the Mexicans could not afford them or what. What is clear is when the Yamaha 55 HP engine was made available to the Mexican fishermen many where bought. Many Mexican fishermen credit the Yamaha 55 hp outboard for their lively hood. Many have told me they paid a very low price for them. I just can not find where Yamaha had any license agreement or influence with the Mexican panga factories other than providing motors.

Bullshipper
11-01-2006, 02:48 PM
im412 - 11/1/2006 2:49 AM

bullshipper your in mexico,,can ya find out anything from eduardono...
i think they are yamaha or tied up with


The Eduardono is made in Columbia in na state of the art facility equipped with the latest technology for Washing Machines. They will will accept up to 600 hp for running precios cargo under the influence.

There best seller comes with a custom thin bottom so you can sink them easier. Seldom used for more than one trip in these waters.

Here is a link to a fairly fancy one where a southern grandfather got confused as to their intended use.

javascript:PopUpImage('http://images.traderonline.com/img/6/dealer/1131693/84104342_1.jpg','Picture%201'%20,%20'220','200');

In response to this, OEMs like Mantacat came out with 80 mph patrol boats to catch these 60 mph models.

im412
11-01-2006, 07:28 PM
""""" I must be honest here. The earliest reference I can find tied to the first Mexican wooden panga
is a mention that the Philippines may have had an influence in it. Not much of a to go on there. Just a casual mention."""""

bajadan.....that makes sense and ties in with what i posted on page 4

""""yamaha stole the design off japanes traditional timber surf-fishing boats [wasen] that have been used for centuries in japan, asia and migrated through asia pacific
then they were taken by the spanish asian colonies to mexico and south america"""""""

the spanish on their own, has a rich history in boats and with their tall ships,
they shared half the world with the british.. the 2 big players at the time
internet told me they settled in philippines in 1565

do you know if the early mex/sth americas panga had a keel or a pad?

i sent an email to yamaha asking about the world bank panga..see if they respond
if not...world bank might be our best option
like you ..i couldnt find info in bull's link to them

bajadan
11-01-2006, 07:59 PM
All pangas I have seen in Mexico have the pad.. "IF" I have seen a wooden version, I did not look at the bottom, not sure if they had pads or keel or even remember looking at a wooden panga.

One of the factories that I was interested in to build a panga for me, only used one mold for all the sizes they made. The mold was for a 26' panga. If you wanted a 21' panga they would place a 5' plug in the stern of the mold and just shorten the mold by 5'. No keel, just flat pad.

.
Found a couple more references to the Filipino influence in Mexico.

"Filipino sailors on the Manila galleons had been traveling to Mexico between 1570 and 1815. Many of them married local girls and settled in Mexico."

"Filipino influence on Mexican culture is very apparent, especially on Mexico’s Pacific Coast, where people today continue to imbibe tuba, the drink derived from the coconut tree. They are also engage in games like kite-flying which they make with papel de China. Their names for their fishing boats is panga, which they suspect is of Filipino origin."


Here is the link if you want to read the article

http://www.ezilon.com/information/article_476.shtml

im412
11-01-2006, 08:13 PM
bajadan...as an after thought

or is it by the time the jap wasen/panga changed as it migrated through asia and the americas to become its own design
as im sure a lot of boats have when you start looking at traditional fishing boats of different countries

did yamaha reintroduced the original concept design of the jap wasen/panga through the world bank boat..
an interesting though and may have merit



bullshipper
uscg seems to think they are quick...think the are kicking up the hp a bit...
http://www.navyleague.org/seapower/uscg_to_go.htm

The Coast Guard has unveiled a new armed helicopter, the MH-90 Enforcer, and has flown it
to intercept the 70-knot go-fast boats that have been easily eluding Coast Guard cutters
since drug runners introduced the boats into service in 1995.

The go-fast boats--30 to 45 feet in length and capable of ranging up to 1,300 miles--
are faster than the so-called "cigarette" boats and represent a dramatic escalation in the cat-and-mouse drug-interdiction war.

guess the eduardono panga is faster than a [insert brand] cigarette go-fast
according to coast guard and how they judge it

there is a U.S. customs helo' pilot on the panga group that was so impressed when he saw them running
as he chases them down...to shoot out the motors with 50cal
he brought one of his own .. only with a thick bottom:thumbsup:
got to laugh at the selling point...and they are easy to sink..if you are caught :rofl:

now this is a panga :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
the yg-38
Specifications 38' x10ft x 450hp x nice

3.5 metric ton pay load, gill net and long line panga


http://www.yamaha-motor.jp/marine/lineup/pro-fish/specialty/yg-38-0a-0b-1a-1b/img/pic_001.jpg

im412
11-01-2006, 08:27 PM
bajadan
thanks for the link..i was typing while you posted

that bit about Filipino sailors settling was interesting..
some would have brought their [local name] wasen/panga type boat design with them
as you said..you found reference to the phiilippines

i think we have established a clear link to the philippines for the wooden mex panga :thumbsup:

my guess is at the end of this we will find that the mex panga was revamped when...

i think...yamaha reintroduced the original concept design of the jap wasen/panga through the world bank boat.

but it may work out the other way.. where the philippino influenced panga was the world bank one

question...did you go to yamaha jp and see the wasen boats..do we agree that is what a panga is

Bullshipper
11-01-2006, 09:00 PM
I differ in opinion with bajadan as I have never seen the wasen design with the pad and lifting transom section that sort of looks loke the fountains rear end. That is if I understand all this talk.

First here was the Boa style which was 5' wide 22-27 feet long with a transom width only 3 feet wide, 10 degree deadrise at the transom. Very tippy boat.

For the last 20 years the Boogie style panga has dominated for new production. 22-26 feet, 6'2" wide amid ships, 5'8 at the transom and less than 6 degree dead rise at the transom, Fast and more stable, but a real pounder.

We keep saying that that Yahmaha stole the design from Japan, but Yahmaha is pretty Japanese the last time I heard, and the links you are providing are light years ahead of what is here in Mexico, believe me.

One of these molds would probably be a good way to sell a lot a boats in Mexico on credit where you never get paid if you're interested.

im412
11-01-2006, 09:13 PM
sorry....i used stole as tongue in cheek...meant used/developed
dont know the local names you are putting up...do you have a picture?
i will google to see if i can find them

as an aside,,,i think the aussie american type arent a bad boat and are a yamaha hull wasen/panga/longboat.. as i know it

on yamaha site i swa about 20 different types of wasen pangas..they are into it in a big way

bajadan
11-01-2006, 09:36 PM
Bullshipper - 11/1/2006 9:00 PM

I differ in opinion with bajadan as I have never seen the wasen design with the pad and lifting transom section that sort of looks loke the fountains rear end. That is if I understand all this talk.
.

I have been using IM412's definition of a pad """a delta pad is simply described as the flat triangle section of hull that starts at the transom with the base of the triangle and the pointy end of the triangle runs to the bow arlon and i have put pics up of the delta pad""""

I have never said I have seen in Mexico a lifting transom section or anything like the modern stuff IM is posting pictures of. All of the Mexican hulls I have seen have a flat bottom pad, no keel, no lifting transom section. A keel would make it much harder to run the pangas up on a beach, and cause a lot more damage as well. Not sure where your coming from Bullshipper..

It took me a while to figure out what IM412 was talking about when he used the term "pad" I take it to mean a flat bottom.

Bullshipper
11-01-2006, 10:19 PM
I found this, which claims that Guaymas then La Paz started them in Mexico.

The boas that I refeered to were wood carved hulls from the mainland, and the boogies where baja peninsula boats where wood is very scarce.

http://www.goboatingamerica.com/includes/articles/DM_printArticle.asp?id=258

I may be confused as to who is saying what Bajadan, I was just wondering where you had seen the keel pad design, as I previously understood you had seen them here.

im412
11-01-2006, 10:39 PM
the delta pad is asian and yamaha use it on most of their boats

confusion...i hate typing ..its so hard to get meaning across

it is a delta padded v hull or a delta padded chined hull ...depending on what school you went to

the delta pad is a central lifting plane
improves for many areas of boat performance, less hull drag, reducing horsepower and fuel, essentially a more efficient hull
..for easy fast plane out of the hole...low speed planing, also gives the boat stability at rest and stops boat lean when underway


this is the hull lines of my yamaha 19' panga..pictured in my signature.. it is a shortened 22' so has a square transom

the delta pad is the flat bit in the middle then you have the v section going out to the edge

this is what i know as the yamaha panga ..we have kept the skegs on it
they have removed these from the hulls in america..as i see it

http://img47.imageshack.us/img47/3390/17mz3.jpg

http://img47.imageshack.us/img47/249/26vk.jpg

http://img104.imageshack.us/img104/4886/31ky.jpg

http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/8990/46cn1.jpg

http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/451/52qq.jpg

http://img47.imageshack.us/img47/4674/68qb2.jpg



bajadan
if you are saying that the following pic i put up is the mex panga type boat that you mean...we have been talking cross wise

i think this is a 100% solely locally designed and built mex panga .. :thumbsup:
i see it as a 5 deg v mex net panga...
but not a yamaha panga


http://us.a2.yahoofs.com/groups/g_16720083/d127/__sr_/e88e.jpg?grocHSFBfPbwD82d

bajadan
11-01-2006, 11:20 PM
Bullshipper,

So Guaymas was first. Last I heard that town was still making a lot of pangas. Wonder if it is still the same Company?

I find it interesting that the first power panga by Shroyer was an inboard, not an outboard, and the first outboard program was with a Johnson motor, not Yamaha.

Seams we have conflicting reports from two sources. However, from what I read your source makes more sense than the Baja Handbook. I was not sure about some of their info, that is why I posted the Mac Shroyer contact info and did not post the quote right away even though I had the book for 10 years. Was hoping you would give him a call and get the story straight from the horse's mouth.



IM412,

I have never seen any hull on a panga like the ones you posted. Your hull is far more advanced than anything I know of in Mexico.

This is the best I can do for pictures of Mexican pangas for now. These are the more advanced panga designs in Mexico that I know of.


http://www.ifish.net/gallery/data/500/CICESE05.jpg


http://www.ifish.net/gallery/data/500/CICESE07.jpg

http://www.ifish.net/gallery/data/500/Oscar_010.jpg

http://www.ifish.net/gallery/data/500/tcorel2.jpg

im412
11-02-2006, 12:21 AM
thats our old aussie yamaha ub580 hull,..... from the early 90's mine... was built in 96'
that is the type that is being built in america only with out the skegs
the columbian eduardono has the moulds too

mexico is no beginner when it comes to boat building and has nothing to prove to me,
bajadan.....i've seen lots of nice craft from there :thumbsup:

i'm also sure i've seen pics of yamaha w25 type wasen/panga in use there


thanks bullshiper..interesting link..
i condensed down
In the early 1960s, fishermen in Guaymas began producing this motorized canoe-type fishing skiff for sale to other fishermen. BOA Co. in Mazatlan also produced a round-bottom, caravel-planked version.

In 1968, Mack Shroyer, a U.S. transplant to La Paz, began building 24 foot plywood inboard sportfishing boats for the many resort hotels from Cabo San Lucas to La Paz
The 18-footers were hard-chined and had the typical V-bottom, dictated by the plywood construction
Shroyer did his own offsets for a full-size fiberglass 18-footer, then build a plug and pull a mold to create this line of boats. Later, he lengthened the mold to build 20 and 22 foot models
In the late 1970s, the Mexican government offered a loan package to pangaderos. They could get the basic 20 or 22 foot panga, a 40 hp Johnson outboard

In 1982, Shroyer sold his boat building business to Embarcaciones ARCA
who split to
Embarcaciones Diaz factory --in building 23, 25 and 26 foot pangas.

it sounds like Shroyer designed and built a f/g 18' v hull panga then lengthened it for the mexican market

there is no mention of the world bank and yamaha..
was this another program alltogether for other nations and not mexico
the story i heard was that it was a program for fishermen world wide in developing nations
mexico may not have been a part of this ;?


guys..it really is worth putting this link into google search and clicking on translate in the results

http://www.yamaha-motor.jp/marine/index.html

and click on one of the 4 pictures

look for .....line up ..
in left hand column
go around the site till you see wasen in the line up list ..left hand column
click on wasen

well worth a look...doesnt say anything about the different pangas/wasen ...guess the locals know what its all about
i went right through the site...some very different ocean going boats too
we get then coming to port in australia as they travel the pacific

the other think i found interesting, was the use of a transom sail, to keep the bow into the wind
when drift fishing on some boats........even on their 1/2 mil dollar boats

ub580
11-02-2006, 12:56 AM
im412,

Out of interest, what size motor do you run on your UB? I run a 60hp yammie 4st with a smaller SS prop.. very very good economy and top speed with 3 up and two tanks of fuel (110L) is 28knts. Cruising speed of approx 4000rpm can deliver me a range of over 150nm... thats how efficient these hulls are.

I must say these boats whilst being extremely seaworthy, are wet... It is the location of the CC that does this, being quite aft in the boat. A breeze above abt 15knt beam on will get you soaked if running against any sort of sea. But having the CC in such an aft position delivers one of the most comfortable rides in any boat of similar length. I just put my raincoat on in the wind!!

As far as solidity goes, my UB580 is built to commercial survey here in NSW, Australia and having seen some well used examples up north , I can vouch for their sturdiness.

I hope this helps answer some of your questions Aquas222

Steve

im412
11-02-2006, 03:18 AM
g'day steve
i forgot about Aquas222 :rofl: but he hasnt asked any more questions

i run a 70hp johno..i think i need a tune up..ya beat me
they run up to 150hp in the states......but we 90% of the time we dont get the seas to go 40kn

as far as cc goes..they are called dry....
consider ya self lucky, its only a bit of spray on some beam winds :grin:

XV2PS
11-02-2006, 07:57 AM
Hi Jack,

I cannot make the message out of the outbox, so I put it here:


Sorry, I have no access to yahoo groups (and that is very annoying).

You can see some pics of boats here:

http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2105060324

My yamaha "might be" a Panga too.

Bullshipper
11-02-2006, 11:31 AM
I appreciate all the history, but I am much more interested to boil this down to
Length, width, power, cruise, gas economy, features and prices in austrailia as it sounds like you have a sophisticated buider there.

Is there a web site where we can see these details from the leading couple of builders?

Do you consider the aussie panga better than the Pangler?

bajadan
11-02-2006, 11:50 AM
Here are a few more pictures of Pangas. I took the top two pictures at the factory. This panga version is commonly called the Mexican super panga. Notice the hull at the transom, very flat. Very different from IM412's Yamaha version. This version will NOT get the kind of economy/speed/power ratings that the Yamaha hull owners are claiming.


http://www.ifish.net/gallery/data/500/aaaaaaaaJPG.jpg


http://www.ifish.net/gallery/data/500/bbbbbbbbb.JPG


Took the pictures of this panga in Baja, however, I believe they said the factory that made this panga version was on the mainland side, possibly near Mexico City. This is the only one of its kind I have seen. Not a common Baja panga. It did not looked like it was ever outfitted or used.

http://www.ifish.net/gallery/data/500/ccccccccccc1.JPG

http://www.ifish.net/gallery/data/500/ddddddddddd.JPG

Bullshipper
11-02-2006, 12:20 PM
The one one the top comes from Guaymas or Mazatlan- th are the boogy style, and anthing over 22' is usually called a super panga and is often docked, not launched off the beach as they are too heavy unless you have 7 guys and steep sand entry to the water.

The bottom ones are produced in Mexico City, Manzanillo, Veracruz, and are generally moored as they are also heavy.

My captain has a 24' boggy and put a little 50 hp 4 stroke on it. It will only go about 20 knots, but it is impossible to burn 20 liters in it all day marlin trolling or chasing tuna. We only go out 15 miles at most, so speed is not a factor as we start trolling 3 miles from the dock.

bajadan
11-02-2006, 12:57 PM
Bullshipper - 11/2/2006 12:20 PM

The one one the top comes from Guaymas or Mazatlan- th are the boogy style, and anthing over 22' is usually called a super panga and is often docked, not launched off the beach as they are too heavy unless you have 7 guys and steep sand entry to the water.
.


The mold for this panga style must be very common. I took these pictures in the Amato panga factory in Ensenada. I thought I had pictures of their mold, however, can not find them yet. Last I heard there were two panga factories in Ensenada. Visited both about 7 years ago. Not sure both are still open.

I have not made it over to the panga factory in Guaymas. Hope to take the ferry that runs from Santa Rosalia to Guaymas some day and visit the area and the panga factory. I spend most of my time in Baja fishing around the Santa Rosalia area. Many of my Mexican fishing partners fish for the giant Humboldt squid/calamari for a living. A trip to Guaymas is on my future side trip list.


Since everyone is having such a hard time coming up with what really happened between the world bank, Yamaha and the panga design, I have come up with a """"THEORY""" Can not provide or disprove it, however, if we do not find anything, I will share my ideas with you when the time is right.

Hint: The key to my theory revolves around two things. 1) The key term used """"Yamaha formed partnerships with local boat builders"""" that is used in all of the articles and brochures. 2) follow the money.

Bullshipper
11-02-2006, 02:30 PM
bajadan - 11/2/2006 12:57 PM

I have not made it over to the panga factory in Guaymas. Hope to take the ferry that runs from Santa Rosalia to Guaymas some day and visit the area and the panga factory. I spend most of my time in Baja fishing around the Santa Rosalia area. Many of my Mexican fishing partners fish for the giant Humboldt squid/calamari for a living. A trip to Guaymas is on my future side trip list.

There are just 2 different molds that I know of, sitting under a tree, and half the workforce has had a little too much glue. I would not take a 10 hr ferry ride for that.

The one in mazatlan is a little more formal, but works out of a 1000 sq foot building and a 3000 sq foot open air yard, so again not much to get excited about.

But I have a friend who builds $1 million dollar escape boats for oil platform crews, and an austrailian hull could be turned into a mold in his hands.

Not many new $8,000 pangas being sold in Mexico as the fishing is not stellar, and its easy to patch up an old one that can be bought for $100-500 bucks.

ub580
11-02-2006, 05:38 PM
Bullshipper,

The two leading Aussie builders would be www.southernstarmarine.com.au (formerly Southwind/Yamaha), www.stingerboats.com.au I guess.

I dont have any experience with the Pangler, so can't really comment there sorry.

Bullshipper
11-02-2006, 08:46 PM
ub580 - 11/2/2006 5:38 PM

Bullshipper,

The two leading Aussie builders would be www.southernstarmarine.com.au (formerly Southwind/Yamaha), www.stingerboats.com.au I guess.

I dont have any experience with the Pangler, so can't really comment there sorry.

Thanks for the info :thumbsup:

solarfry
11-02-2006, 09:38 PM
bajadan - 11/2/2006 11:50 AM



Took the pictures of this panga in Baja, however, I believe they said the factory that made this panga version was on the mainland side, possibly near Mexico City. This is the only one of its kind I have seen. Not a common Baja panga. It did not looked like it was ever outfitted or used.

http://www.ifish.net/gallery/data/500/ccccccccccc1.JPG

http://www.ifish.net/gallery/data/500/ddddddddddd.JPG

That is a modern non foamed stringer system as available in all the expensive boats.

im412
11-02-2006, 10:10 PM
this is just my opinion.......
have only seen angler on net and wouldnt say with knowledge
but the angler has delta pad and deeper v/chine section also variable in that it gets steeper angle as you move towards bow
guessing starts 15o transom 20o amidship
in general a deeper variable v will be less stable at rest but run chop/wave faster

there are specific reasons why yam have designed the water line as they have
the upsweep sturn is for a following wave..not somewhere to put trim tabs :grin:
as you know..the move further away from the equator the seas get rougher
the japs see sea-keeping as paramount in their work boats..even at the expense of loss of speed
although skegs and straits create drag..they use them for dynamic directional stability..as i see it


in my hull lines pic, i put up..there is suppose to be 2 rubbing strips like on the bow put on the skegs
in pic 3 you can see the indent for where they are suppose to start
the american type panga is running in different seas from what is in japan and australia..
so a smoother hull [less drag] for better speed is designed for the boats

information on the net for the yamaha wasen boat is virtually non existent
but if you want to splash a "work boat" hull..i think i would look at the eduardon like what the yank builders use and import a built in japan one [ it wont be cheap exercise but nothing is, when you set up for a production run]..even their big ones are designed for beach launch.. and see which is more suited..at least you will see the differences in each


http://www.yamaha-motor.jp/marine/lineup/img/pic_006.jpg

Bullshipper
11-02-2006, 10:30 PM
Baja seas are rough every day as hot thermals build to 40 knots and the wind chop is rougher than you will find on the Pacific. The Gulf of Mexico can also be brutal so I don't think that a wave comparision is very productive to this discussion.

Baja pangas have almost flat transoms to increase the narrow stability on the water and on the beach as most skipper will run wot at the beach to glide the boat away from the water as far as they can letting the motorleg loose so that it drag in the wet sand 40 feet behind them. You really have to use you legs and feet to keep from being thrown forward when you hit the beach going +50 kph. For this reason the fishermen wount buy aluminum boats as they will not slide in wet sand unless painted, and the paint rubs off pretty fast.

Once on the beach, the bow has to be turned around, pushed close to the water, loaded, motor started dry, then the mad push and jumpin and motor start before the next wave breaks.

So performance on the sand is just as important to avoid hernias early in the morning.

Deep vees would lay on their side, and be a lot harder to turn and push. The pad on the delta pad hull would also no be much of a problem either.

But we are not going to live on the beach loike a Mexican fisherman. We all trailer to ramps, so deep v hulls and weight are not a big problem. Here 26' and up is king as length is important to seakeeping and ride, but let us stress that 95% of pangas go 30 mph or slower so when you compare them to 50 mph contenders we are not being fair.

bajadan
11-02-2006, 10:44 PM
I will second Bullshippers accurate description of the rough Baja seas. I have spent far too many days sitting on the beach eating sand from the strong wind. Sometimes the wind will blow so hard, and for so long we do not fish for a week. One time, in my own boat, I got caught out when a sudden wind storm came up. The seas were so rough I could not make it back to my bay. Had to beach my boat and spend the night on an island, along with about 10 panga fishermen.

im412
11-02-2006, 11:07 PM
i dont mean to sound pompous..and when i do..slap me over the head :grin:
thats bigger thermals then we get..where i am averages 25kn of an afternoon
it takes a squall or front to move in for 40kn or more
werent the mex panga a close shore net boat originally..
our local purse net boats dont work deeper than 5m and prolly 20-30ml along the coast

they would be designed perfectly for what they are used for..running up on beach etc.
if you guys are traveling out into the gulf and want more seaworthy..but still cheap to buy and run...

the eduardono have a large range of boats,,have you seen them?
seems to be the americas version from what i've seen...panga.com, panga marine and andros


as i altered my post before you posted re:me being told on baja forum that 22' was the ideal lenght there

thanks ,,25+ is prefered ..is this the netters ..or the guys trolling for game fish?..im sitting in australia..not hard for me to get confused

im412
11-03-2006, 08:35 AM
if it was me and lived in mexico...and wanted 25ft plus...
i'd look at the eduardono 26' and 32' [like aussie usa ones] and the angler 26'
i'd go for a test ride on the 3...if for no other reason but curiosity :thumbsup:

and both would fit skegs and a rear bulkhead as options if anyone wanted

angler... they came from down sth....i dont know who.... usa angler may be of help to locate mex dealer
http://www.anglerboats.com/models/index.php?model=26panga

eduardono.. a few dealers on this page in link up top of page
http://www.eduardono.com/eduardono/index.php/eduardono/content/view/full/79

but this hasnt answered the question....how did the yamaha hull get around the world and to the americas
and which came first..the chicken or the egg :rofl: :rofl:

im412
11-03-2006, 10:11 AM
3 posts in a row..sorry..but ya cant edit after 1/2 hr...bet ya hope i dont find any more pangas

here is a mex 25w not same as jap..but similar..1.8 beam ...[skinnier than eduardono]
The W-25 model is a recommendable boat for commercial fishing ribereña and of bays. Design proven by but of 15 years in Mexico. Adaptable helmet for sport boat.

http://www.imemsa.com.mx/lanchas/w25.asp


http://www.imemsa.com.mx/lanchas/lanchas/ww25.jpg


and this is their full range

http://www.imemsa.com.mx/lanchas/comparativo.asp


the w26pc doesnt look too bad either [but skinnier than eduardono]

bajadan
11-03-2006, 10:58 AM
IM412

With the gunnels design and low sides on the Yamaha panga pictured just above, it looks very much like a panga made on the mainland in one of the factories around Mexico City. I am not 100% sure of this, maybe Bullshippers knows which factory makes this panga.

The brochure you posted translates the Yamaha panga version to be a river or bay boat.

If this is the panga I believe it to be I have seen a few in Baja used for commercial fishing. However, the fishermen had to build the sides up higher to increase the freeboard. Also, the lay up of the fiberglass was much thinner than the pangas most commercial fishermen use. This made the panga lighter and more economical, also made it easier to puncture holes in the bottom when run up on the beach. The holes in the bottom were to big deal. The commercial fishermen patch their boats all the time. The low sides were a problem.

The prices were less for the Yamaha panga than the commercial grade. The lower price probably was the reason a few commercial fishermen tried them. This model did not catch on for open seas on the Baja side, Not sure if they are popular on the gulf side, however, would be the ideal lake or river panga.

This lighter weight, lower freeboard Yamaha panga design may be part of the reason for such a difference in perfomance numbers to the commercial grade Mexican panga I have used and familiar with.

Thanks for finding a Yamaha connection to a Mexican panga factory..

Dan

im412
11-03-2006, 11:02 AM
bajadan...that is the one made in mex..it was google translate...


can we leave the seakeeping of a true yam panga for later..
i'll argue that till the cows come home :rofl:
especially if you are saying the pic i put up before of the 5deg mex boat has better seakeeping
yam has been making them for yonks...if it needed higher sides they would have it...
people may like higher side...personal opinion....
the drug runners seem happy enough with the seakeeping of the eduardono..
they would be in the worst seas running fast

but lets leave this till later...dont want to side track too much

here is a yamaha in ni....still dont look the same as jap site ;?

http://www.yamaha.com.ni/Botes.htm

1pman
11-03-2006, 12:27 PM
I have owned an american made panga for 2 years, 22' with a Yam f115 pushing it. I fish the gulf oil rigs/wrecks, the inside marsh and the barrier islands of Mississippi. The boat is great. Simple but extremely versatile. I had the big heavy deep v (24 degree), I love this boat..It is the pangamarine.com boat. It is far more versatile than a bay boat, offshore boat etc...it does it all and at 6 mpg, does it cheaply...

Bullshipper
11-03-2006, 12:46 PM
im412 - 11/3/2006 11:02 AM



bajadan...that is the one made in mex..it was google translate...


can we leave the seakeeping of a true yam panga for later..
i'll argue that till the cows come home :rofl:
especially if you are saying the pic i put up before of the 5deg mex boat has better seakeeping
yam has been making them for yonks...if it needed higher sides they would have it...
people may like higher side...personal opinion....
the drug runners seem happy enough with the seakeeping of the eduardono..
they would be in the worst seas running fast

but lets leave this till later...dont want to side track too much*

here is a yamaha in ni....still dont look the same as jap site ;?

http://www.yamaha.com.ni/Botes.htm


I agree with everything that bajadan says on his previous post about this hull being very wet, and the locals trtying to raise its sides.

The boggii out of Mazatlan is more popular as it is faster, lighter, dryer, and cheaper.

I have still not found a link to the Eduardoño, but I think I have seen one imported from columbia. Much too heavy for beach launching, but bigger and better construction than the Mx styles currently produced.

im412
11-03-2006, 01:22 PM
1pman...thats virtually the same as yamaha have in australia...they are a top boat
havent found them on the yamaha japan site yet...

guys
i am making no claim for the mexican imemsa ..
i simply put up the link i found
it may indeed be a thin wet POS

nor am i saying the yamaha panga is a fishing 200ml deep ocean boat
its obvious that neither of you have been to the yamaha jp site i put up

PLEASE GO AND HAVE A LOOK

this is their medium to long range ocean vessels..click on the pictures
if you want english put the link into google and search..then click translate

after you have seen the range of yamaha boats...then we can talk

yamaha claim for the wasen/panga
The wasen series which centers the north Japanese area is lined up.
As for J series from 16 feet to 26 feet, as for north Japanese edition W series from 22 feet to 36 feet,
We correspond to the various needs of the sea north.

they are what they were designed for in the north sea

if you go here and click the 5 pictures and the links on the side
you will see yamaha fleet they go to 70ft ships

http://www.yamaha-motor.jp/marine/lineup/pro-fish/index.html

bajadan
11-03-2006, 01:49 PM
IM412,

Hmm, not sure how to respond here. Thought I was agreeing with you that the panga in the picture was made in Mexico, I just assumed that since it is from a Yamaha brochure that Yamaha may have some connection to it. I am not sure which factory in Mexico manufactured it.

Never called it a POS. Just stated it did not work well under Baja conditions.

I have looked at the site you mentioned, several times. Find a large variety of sizes and styles of pangas. Some are unbelievably awesome looking.. Just can not translate what it says. Would like to test ride some of those babies.

Sorry if I upset you. That was not my intent.

Dan

im412
11-03-2006, 02:16 PM
its 5.30 in the morning here....and im prolly cranky,,sorry that i jumped
i get frustrated..typing is a poor way of communicating for me

i'm not defending the imemsa but it has the flotation gunwales...dam hard to put one of them under water
i think if the mex fishermen wanted higher sides it would of been for carrying more weight
higher sides enable greater displacement
as i said i can make no claim for the imemsa,,never seen one
POS..is the same as when i said yamaha stole...its taking it to the worst senareo

to get yamaha in english
copy the link //open google // paste in and click search//the link will come up in results//click on translate
the page will open in english..

Bullshipper
11-03-2006, 05:10 PM
im412 - 11/3/2006 2:16 PM

its 5.30 in the morning here....and im prolly cranky,,sorry that i jumped
i get frustrated..typing is a poor way of communicating for me

i'm not defending the imemsa but it has the flotation gunwales...dam hard to put one of them under water
i think if the mex fishermen wanted higher sides it would of been for carrying more weight
higher sides enable greater displacement
as i said i can make no claim for the imemsa,,never seen one
POS..is the same as when i said yamaha stole...its taking it to the worst senareo

to get yamaha in english
copy the link //open google // paste in and click search//the link will come up in results//click on translate
the page will open in english..

I looked at it too, but need my CD program disk to translate from japanese to english, so just pictures for now.

Hooked Up
11-03-2006, 09:31 PM
My Eduardono is too heavy for beach launching like smaller ones do. I do launch my boat at the beach with a full size bronco, but I do it as you would on a regular ramp. I wish I could post a picture of mine but here is a link to give you an idea of how mine looks like.

http://www.kodakgallery.com/I.jsp?c=lp7cm9r.7unkcmoz&x=0&y=jps3am

you do not need to sign in to see the pics, just click on view slideshow

bajadan
11-03-2006, 09:55 PM
Here is a pic of Hooked Up's Panga....SWEEEEEEETTTT!!!

http://www.ifish.net/gallery/data/500/medium/752157522403_0_BG.jpg

Bullshipper
11-03-2006, 10:55 PM
Hooked up also provided this link to other Eduardono models-now we're talking pangas

http://www.eduardono.com/eduardono/index.php/eduardono/content/view/full/209


:thumbsup:

YankeeBoater
11-03-2006, 11:18 PM
Hooked Up - 11/3/2006 10:31 PM

My Eduardono is too heavy for beach launching like smaller ones do. I do launch my boat at the beach with a full size bronco, but I do it as you would on a regular ramp. I wish I could post a picture of mine but here is a link to give you an idea of how mine looks like.

http://www.kodakgallery.com/I.jsp?c=lp7cm9r.7unkcmoz&x=0&y=jps3am

you do not need to sign in to see the pics, just click on view slideshow

Nice looking boat, and it's also nice to see a boat that size that doesn't need 300HP to push it along. Is that a big company? Where do they offer them?

im412
11-04-2006, 03:01 AM
thats the eduardono 25 ...a 5:1 ratio panga..a nice boat
is narrower has a less detailed bottom and needs less hp than an aussie american 4:1 ratio one
and a few i know on the panga group, that have one, say they are a top boat for what they want to do
twin 40's on a 25 ft ...boat hard to get more economical

ok...trust me this will work ;cool;

the last link i out up for yam japan ..was after i was in the site changing pages....google didnt know it...but the 2 previous ones are ok...
i've tripple checked this

this is the google link i pasted the link in and clicked search

http://www.google.com.au/


this is the yam jap that you copy and paste

http://www.yamaha-motor.jp/marine/index.html

it will bring up 2 results...click on translate this will work

Hooked Up
11-04-2006, 06:47 AM
The 40's work sweet although the perfect hp would be twin 60's in my opinion. Max rated hp is for twin 85's. I cruise at 25 knots at 4200 RPMs. I usually do not spend more than 15 gallons a day on a long offshore trip, troll and return. I got carb 40's, but Im sure that with a single optimax 135 or a 4s 140, this boat would run even better. The 40's are just plain economical engines to own. Virtually indestructable. Mine are 2 cylinder engines. You can start with a starter or by hand so there is added redundancy. Glad you all like the rig. This boat handles offshore incredibly well. You would not believe it unless you were on one. Thats what everyone that comes on board says..

im412
11-04-2006, 07:20 AM
fjr, its jackwa here from group ..
i ve got the 19 yamaha southwind ...4:1
and the local papua new guinea one, from the northern islands of australia ..19' 5:1 ratio

both are different ride but nice

im412
11-04-2006, 08:34 AM
ps...
i'm happy with my basic fit out...but it doesnt even compare to what the yanks are doing with fit and finnsh

different boats altogether...there are pangas and there are pangas...then there are yank pangas

take my hat off to ya builders guys :thumbsup:

Hooked Up
11-04-2006, 09:16 AM
I agree with IM412. The boats advertised as Pangas have a nice finish in the states. The ones still down here in the Caribbean are sold as they are, plain, rugged and non-finished boats. I think mine is an "in between" from the finished and un finished. I think the Panga hull I have is the one Pangamarine advertises it as the 26 without some of the modifications they do in the states. Im not 100% sure, but mine has no liner as you can tell. It has a teak floor which gives it a very rustic look.

From having own Albemarles, Shamrocks and Sportcraft, I am having more fun now with this boat than ever before. I guess its just the simplicity factor and the fact that I dont waste any time in maintenance. I just use it a lot!

im412
11-04-2006, 10:34 AM
i think yours is the more slender type with different underwater hull lines
but check your specs with their website....pretty sure its quite different
i like the practical fit out yours that you did

blueh20pc
11-04-2006, 01:48 PM
I really liked pangas until I had to read this thread. :thumbsup:

im412
11-05-2006, 02:14 AM
if you can be "put on" or "put off' a boat from what you read from the "internet experts"....

you are sillier than most boat buyers....
all this is taken with a grain of salt...when its time to pull out your wallet :thumbsup:

9 pages....gees...
who wants to do a summery of some of the worthwhile [and i think some of it was] info we all have discovered

Hooked Up
11-05-2006, 07:48 AM
I think the only reason Panga's have gotten recent attention is because of fuel prices. This boat will allow the average joe to get one and fish offshore. I know thats why I first got interested in them...

im412
11-06-2006, 01:14 AM
as you know hooked up
for some reason...fuel prices dont worry some panga owners ;? ;? ;? http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j67/webfishingclub-/8m.jpg

Hooked Up
11-06-2006, 07:42 AM
crazy!!

im412
11-06-2006, 10:54 PM
correction

..found out the 8 are on a rib, but they are a wild rack of motors

bajadan
11-07-2006, 11:59 AM
im412 - 11/5/2006 2:14 AM

9 pages....gees...
who wants to do a summery of some of the worthwhile [and i think some of it was] info we all have discovered


Well Jack, not sure about a summery, I think the real question is, "did all of this healthy banter answer Aguas222 original question???? Did it Joe????

What I did learn is there is probably a panga version, size, hull type for just about any application. The panga has evolved over many centuries and continues to change.

I do have one more question..... Here in the Pacific NW we have a boat that is beached launched and fished in the open ocean called a dory. Any one have any ideas if or how the dory is related to the Panga??? The panga and dory seam to be very similar.

Keys Capt
11-29-2006, 11:34 PM
In 1969 I was a young Marine stationed at US Fleet Activities, Sasebo, Japan. All the fishing boats in the harbor had that same high, rounded bow and narrow beam to length ratio. Never thought that 37 years later I'd own one. I never expected to see a Japanese restaurant in every strip mall either.

Kajun
11-30-2006, 01:20 AM
panga's are cool! :thumbsup:


http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/4704/pangadd3.png

im412
11-30-2006, 05:06 AM
they are funny looking arent they :thumbsup:

i wonder why most of the world bother with them ;? ;?

i'm sure your wellcraft 18 will have no trouble matching the seakeeping of a 17ft panga on an inlet/bar

http://www.ausfish.com.au/forum/YaBB.cgi?num=1148773325/35#33

Well the result was i mucked it up and in hind sight i was always going to fail because the set were to hard to pick. The waves just stood up and sucked and sucked with the run out tide till they broke over the boat. The first wave in fact broke onto the outboard they were tubbing that much ,the next hit the console and the next the deck infront of the consol. The boat was full of water and i mean full to the gunnels but due to three or four things i made it through.

1.when i saw i was going to wear it i kept the boat straight into the waves i didn't try to run away.
2. The boat is a self drainer, actually a flat decker and has a 3" high transom and not quite 2 foot sides so the water flowed out very quickly and the scuppers took care of the rest.
3. the motor kept going which kept me straight ( little bit of good management and alot of luck)

Anyway if that didn't stop the little girl i would hate to be in a situation that does stop her.

im412
11-30-2006, 07:20 AM
its not rocket science

the good seakeeping with the aussie fitout is because of the front and rear sealed bulkheads
the notched transom and underfloor and gunwale flotation
the slender lines with strakes and skegs to maintain directional control
along with the buoyant high lift bow that will lift through a wave and hard to stuff


this means that a swamping wave will spill out the back through the notch
the remaining deck water is held between the front and rear bulkhead
along with the gunwale flotation to maintain a level attitude,
while the rear bulkhead also floats the motor

the bow still has enough lift through the wave, which keeps seakeeping till the venturi side scuppers drains the remaining "free water"


http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j67/webfishingclub-/sw1.jpg

paxfish
11-30-2006, 08:29 AM
Here's a Bahamas version I saw last spring:

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/chrismoe/bahamianpanga.jpg

bajadan
11-30-2006, 10:25 PM
Here are pictures of two DORY boats. There is a fleet of them that beach launch out of Pacific City, Oregon. They sure look a lot like a Panga. The one on the bottom is 34 years old. I believe at one time they were used to run charter fishing and diving trips and also a few were used by commercial fishermen. Most are privately owned now..



http://www.ifish.net/gallery/data/500/medium/West_Wind_2_2_.jpg

http://www.ifish.net/gallery/data/500/medium/coming_in.jpg

http://www.ifish.net/gallery/data/500/medium/dory4.JPG

http://www.ifish.net/gallery/data/500/medium/dory5.JPG

squid kid
03-31-2008, 06:55 PM
Hooked Up - 10/22/2006 8:19 PM

I got a 25 foot Eduardono panga made in Colombia. Mine has no liner or anything. I have a full teak floor on mine, removable gas tanks, and run it with twin 40 Yamahas. I have a removable t-top as well. I fish out of PR where the offshore weather conditions are always challenging. I have owned Albemarles and Shamrocks over the past 10 years. I realize that when I bought this boat, I would not be worried about finish or anything like that. What I do know is that this boats handle offshore conditions increadibly well, the maintenance is negligible and it costs me 10-12 gallons to go troll all day. I get home and spray her with fresh water and Im done. Basically, this boat is maintenance free and takes me offshore in relative comfort. Its a simple boat. Thats what I needed on a boat. I did not care for an expensive high maintenance boat anymore.

I work as a CBP pilot down here in the Caribbean and I have seen this same type hulls running from South America loaded with kilos of coke in the worst offshore weather that I have ever seen. To me, that was the test of how the boat would handle offshore weather. Thats how I ended up buying one of these.

Hooked Up, or anyone else who may know,
What are the fuel numbers and speeds of your Eduardono 25? Also, is the boat seaworthy enough to take 30-40 miles off the North Carolina coast?
Thanks a lot,
Ben Hesse

Allmand Boats
12-06-2009, 02:52 AM
Hi
Panga Boats come in a variety of models with dimensions ranging from 21' X 6.5' X 1.2', weighing 1200 lbs, available with features like White Gel Coat, 50HP-90HP for a 6 Passenger, 12 volt 80Abattery, SS bow rail and Console with storage. Features like Fiberglass driver seats and Mech Steering make panga boats an impressive deal.To know about Panga Boat Models which use half the HP, half the fuel and more Console and Seat Options, logon to:
http://www.allmandboats.com/PangaCraft/
Here is a video which shows a PC22 cruising with 60 HP:
http://www.allmandboats.com/PangaCraft/pc22w60hp.html

llit
03-15-2010, 05:24 PM
Those Allmand boats are the ones made by china bestyear. I'm sure they work ok somewhere, but they have a near full-length delta pad, and thats a bit back breaking imho.

I'm looking for someone making the closest boat to the Southwind UB580, with a view to importing them into Australia.

Length Overall - 5.79 m
Beam - 1.96 m
Deadrise at transom - 22 °
Maximum HP - 2 Stroke - 90 HP
Maximum HP - 4 Stroke - 100 HP
Maximum Engine Weight - 170 kg
Transom Height - 20 "
Hull Weight - 590 kg

So many of the boats out there have zero deadrise, hollowed out stern, and totally pointless HP ratings - 40-50hp on a 5.8m boat isn't going to fly in this market. I've heard of a boatmarker call argos in mexico, anyone know what their boats are like?

RHJ7
03-15-2010, 06:29 PM
I have had a 23' diaz panga in mexico for years. It lives there at baja ca. Sur. It is a cc w/ t-top. Riggers, bait system, rigged for marlin. Power is a 90 honda 4 stroke. It uses little fuel and can take the rough water. It is no wetter than any other boat that size. Easy to launch over the sand.very happy with it.

llit
03-15-2010, 08:20 PM
I have had a 23' diaz panga in mexico for years.

Got a link to their spec?

With400
03-15-2010, 09:13 PM
Maximum HP - 2 Stroke - 90 HP
Maximum HP - 4 Stroke - 100 HP


;?

llit
03-15-2010, 09:16 PM
;?

I'm hearing you, thats really what the spec says. Its quite old, they haven't made the boats for years but that is direct from their defunct website.

Perhaps in the olden days 2st 90hp was just as good as a 4st 100hp, I personally think they accidentally transposed the figures, allowing you to go more horses on a lighter 2st.

The reality is that Southwind 580s nearly all have around 75hp, and the bigger UB670 has 100hp. Here is the spec from the UB670;

670UB
Length Overall - 6.71 m
Beam - 1.96 m
Deadrise at transom - 22 °
Maximum HP - 2 Stroke - 115 HP
Maximum HP - 4 Stroke - 100 HP
Maximum Engine Weight - 170 kg
Transom Height - 25 "
Hull Weight - 630 kg

llit
03-16-2010, 04:36 AM
Yamaha Japan National Edition (http://tinyurl.com/yzawrul), scan down to W-20PHS. Kind of odd that is close as I can find these days on Yamaha's own site,

There are also these made under license in UAE; Al Yousuf Motors. (http://www.aym.ae/yamaha/productslineup.aspx?id=10&subcat1Id=21&subcat2Id=26&subcat3Id=0)

jcnavarro2112
03-16-2010, 02:11 PM
I have a panga, Eduardoño, 32 feet with center console, livewell, fish boxes and twin 150 HP Yamaha 4 strokes. It is the best boat I've ever had. Very dry. Look at the pictures.

llit
03-16-2010, 02:57 PM
I have a panga, Eduardoño, 32 feet with center console.

Nice boat, my driveway isn't that long though =)

Got a contact for Eduardoño? Their web contact form is broken and I just can't find another email address on the site.

Ta,

till

jcnavarro2112
03-16-2010, 03:09 PM
Panga boats are the best for everything. Here are pictures of mine.

mobjack22
02-06-2011, 07:02 AM
Next door neighbor has a 21 and he loves it. It is dry and nimble. Only neg I have seen is it tends to roll in swells like any other boat without much deadrise.

Gringo
02-07-2011, 04:31 AM
we loved our Andros 22 ft. panga. It was a very good all around boat for these waters where we might be needing to get over a sand bar one day, and out trolling in 5,000 ft. of water the next. They do roll more than most boats. I think this is due more to the length to beam ratio than the deadrise. Ours also weathervaned a little more at idle speeds, but these are characteristics that one quickly gets used to. They are not bad characteristics, just different. Like catamarans don't lean into turns, and you get used to it. We presently are awaiting delivery of an 18 ft. Mojito design.

Commocean
02-07-2011, 06:48 AM
I owned a Panga Marine 18 Skiff, and am sorry to this day that I sold it. It had a 50HP Yamaha 2-stroke, and folks were always amazed at how well the boat handled nasty conditions for being a lightweight, 18' hull. The sharp entry and bow flare made for a dry ride, and I couldn't drain the 12 gallon tank no matter how hard I tried.

kiwi44
02-10-2011, 01:28 AM
fjr, its jackwa here from group ..
i ve got the 19 yamaha southwind ...4:1
and the local papua new guinea one, from the northern islands of australia ..19' 5:1 ratio

both are different ride but nice

Hi

What is the boat on the right with the cab

Peter

kiwi44
02-10-2011, 01:31 AM
Hi can you tell me the name of the hardtop on your message. Looks like a yamaha maybe

Thanks

Peter

Gringo
03-22-2011, 06:13 AM
justifiable homicide?

im412
04-08-2011, 09:06 AM
Hi can you tell me the name of the hardtop on your message. Looks like a yamaha maybe

Thanks

Peter

yes, its a japanese yamaha pro boat, that I got off the yamaha jp site

chefrish
04-08-2011, 09:31 AM
33' 2001 panga 2003'twin 225 suzuki 2 strokes - $3900 (montauk)
________________________________________
Date: 2011-04-05, 9:01AM EDT
Reply to: sale-grcz8-2306297505@craigslist.org [Errors when replying to ads?]
________________________________________

must sell need cash now!!!!!
• Location: montauk
• it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests

I saw this on craigslist. typo?

Tripletail12
07-02-2013, 06:31 PM
New to the forum but quick question. Has anyone had any experience in a 19 foot Panga? Looking to garage a boat that is versatile on Florida's Gulf Coast.

interloper
07-02-2013, 06:56 PM
Scanning through this thread, I see a number of posts regarding what constitutes a true panga and the source of the panga design. The following is my understanding of panga history. Now please give me a chance to take cover before the shooting begins.

- V-bottomed plywood boats called pangas with 40 hp outboard motors were being used for fishing in Mexico, and proabably elsewhere, in the 1950s and 1960s.

- The name panga originated from one of the following:
-- The boats had a forward sheerline that curved upward like a panga machete.
-- The fisherman who used the boats frequently sought a fish called panga.
-- The name is a contraction of pequeno lancha.
- Regardless of the true origin of the name, the three ideas above formed a harmonic convergence that made the name stick.

- Circa 1968, a Gringo named Mac Shroyer translated the panga design into fiberglass and started production < http://www.bwi.org/bwicontest/files/833-boatthatchangedtheworld.pdf >.

- The United Nations Food and Agriculture Organization published a report in 1974 that documents the design of plywood fishing boats for the developing world that appear similar to the panga < http://books.google.com/books?id=6yC3yfdQBtoC&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false >, but the transition to fiberglass construction was already underway in Mexico by that time.

- President Luis Echeverria (President of Mexico from 1970 to 1976) sought to promote a fishery to exploit the newly constructed highway to the tip of Baja California and ferry services across the Sea of Cortez with the financial help of the World Bank. Yamaha became invovlved in the effort and bought an existing panga builder to establish Industria Mexicana de Equipo Marino, S.A. (IMEMSA) to build fiberglass fishing boats that would be powered by Yamaha outboard motors.

- The Yamaha/IMEMSA boats < http://www.imemsa.com.mx/lanchas.html > appear to be modeled on the the wasen fishing boats Yamaha builds in Japan < http://www.yamaha-motor.jp/marine/lineup/j-boat/ >. Key features of these boats include a high bow, a large flotation bulge at the gunwale, and a triangular planing surface on the bottom at the stern. IMEMSA refers to the boats as lanchas. IMEMSA does not use the name panga.

- The boats referred to as pangas in the Gringo world share the key featurse of the Yamaha/IMEMSA design. Perhaps they should be called wasen boats or lanchas rather than pangas.

JaxKat
07-26-2013, 06:56 AM
Does anyone have any experience pro or con on the Andros 23 cuda?



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